5 Reasons We Dis-Engage



The seduction is mesmerising and as part of its allure we of course tell you why we chose you with a thousand different sensual sentences. Some may seem over-the-top; others make sense to you but either way you are given the basis of understanding why we have been drawn to you. We do not tell you the real reasons why we chose you but we do provide you with some.

The devaluation is tortuous, horrific and unpleasant. You are unable to ascertain why we have suddenly knocked you from your pedestal. It is bewildering and confusing and only serves to add to your pain. You may have some reasons hurled at you but they will not make any sense to you and this is by design, to keep you confused and where we want you. Reasons are given, they just do not make sense.

Then comes the dis-engagement (the accurate term for what many people refer to as the discard) and more often than not you are left sprawled in the dust, exhausted, bereft and shattered with no explanation given as to why you have been thrown to one side as we stroll off into the sunset walking away nonchalantly. Why has it ended so suddenly? What did you do wrong? Why have we not told you why this has happened? The pain of being rejected is magnified by the failure to provide you with any explanation. Naturally, this refusal to explain is part of our design. We feel no need to explain because we can do as we want. We feel no need to give reasons because in our eyes you deserve no reasons because you have failed us. We offer no information for you to consider and process because certainly amongst the lesser of our kind they do not know themselves why is has ended, but it had to. This is the way it has to be.  There are however reasons why you we dis-engage from you. These are those reasons.

  1. You Have Wised Up

You have worked out, usually as a consequence of some external assistance that we must provoke you and make you react in an emotional fashion. You may not entirely understand why this dynamic occurs, you may not realise why it is so important to us, but you know that we want to make you react and you have stopped doing so. You have learned to respond in a neutral fashion and thus deprive us of our fuel. We apply our machinations in a harsher fashion, increasing the pressure to cause you to react as we feed on our secondary sources in the meanwhile but your resistance is substantial. You have not walked away, perhaps you are unable for financial reasons, children or the inconvenience of seeking a new home, but you have turned off the tap and we realise that it is not going to be turned back on anytime soon. We do not want to be in this weakened state and we do not wish to apply the energy we need to finding or embedding a new primary source to be used up on trying to squeeze fuel from you. Thus you are dropped.

  1. The New Source Is in Place

We began our devaluation of you as we sought a replacement for you. This explains the repeated affairs and now we have settled on your replacement as a primary source of fuel. He or she has been seduced and embedded into our supply chain. We are confident that they are functioning well, pouring forth delicious positive fuel in significant quantities and in a reliable manner, far better than you ever did. We have been fuelled by your negative fuel but there is no longer any need to keep you in play now that we have our new bright and shiny plaything. On to the scrap heap you go. We will come back later for a hoover of course, but for now it is adios.

  1. You’re Broken

Although it may seem during devaluation that we are trying to destroy you, that is actually not the case. Yes, we are driving you downwards through our repeated application of horrible manipulations but we do not want to finish you off. Just like somebody’s head we are holding under water, we will let you surface spluttering and gasping for air, by way of a respite period before plunging you into the icy water once again and holding you under. In and out, up and down, push and pull. We will have you bouncing along the bottom but not destroyed. Sometimes we go too far and the avalanche of abuse takes its toll on you resulting in you becoming broken. You are left numb, barely functioning or even hospitalised as a consequence of a break down. You provide us with no reaction any longer. Unlike the first instance above, this is not by choice, but as a consequence of our behaviour breaking you. Knowing now that you will not provide us with any fuel, we show our callous nature by taking no interest in your broken state but instead we shift our focus to embedding the new prospect that we have been cultivating and drop you.

  1. Major Exposure

You may have us worked out but your shock and horror at this, along with your desire to actually try to help and change us, means you continue you to spill out fuel towards us. You have the knowledge but you are not using it effectively, so we see no reason to go elsewhere. You may be trying to tell other people about our terrible behaviours but we have got in first, launched the smear campaign and maintained the façade. It is business as usual. Occasionally however you might just outflank us and manage to tell other people what we are like before we can do anything about it. These people see some incontrovertible evidence that you have obtained (admittedly usually obtained when dealing with the lesser and mid-range of our kind) and take your side. News spreads and those people we thought we could rely on either turn their backs on us or worse take your side. The façade is crumbling. The fuel has stopped and the energy required to change people’s minds (with no guarantee of success) is too great. We have been exposed in a major fashion. Rather than face the music and allow ourselves to be destroyed we drop you like a stone, saddle up and ride out of town in order to find a new place which hasn’t heard about who we are.

  1. Wounding with Intent

You’ve brought your A game on this occasion. Not only do you know what we are, the revelations that you have been provided with have caused you to now understand how you can hurt us. You know to turn off the tap but you know how to obtain the ultimate revenge against us and your emotion-free criticisms are launched at us. These criticisms wound us repeatedly, burning and hurting us and with no way of getting fuel from you, we are being beaten. You have been well schooled by somebody and applying those learned lessons you are starting to attack the very pillars of our existence. We are under a serious attack and fighting back is not an option. We need to flee and quickly. We don’t want you any longer, we know we cannot succeed at this moment in time and therefore we need to beat a retreat and promptly. You don’t want to let us off the hook because you want answers and you want to punish us for what we have done to you. You are not going to end our connection. We are not going to hang around however and we will discard you as we beat that retreat so we can recover, replenish and then look to strike back at a later date when your guard may be down.

95 thoughts on “5 Reasons We Dis-Engage

  1. IJ says:

    HG, I have just found you recently as well, and can’t stop reading. I am not a primary source. I don’t think I ever was. Secondary or transitional if that is a thing. We often go years apart, but always end up entwined again. I’m trying to figure out where on the spectrum he is. His levels of love bombing, devaluation and triangulation are mild – like he might make snide remarks about my career, or comment all over my friend’s fb posts at most. Uses silent treatment A LOT but then tells me it isn’t personal and stop making it such. He does snap and turn on me when I call him out on his behavior but also sometimes tries to explain it by saying that everything about him is extremely cyclical. He will be intensely focused on something and then not touch or think about it for weeks and that it is very confusing to everyone in his life and hard to explain. He’s also on meds for bi-polar. Could those meds dull the intensity of his attacks?

    Also, he just gave me a LONG silent treatment after promising to come visit and then… nothing. This is the 2nd time in several months he’s said he would come. The first time I got upset and called him on it because I took 2 days off work. This time, I told him that my expectations were zero. I think that made him mad. It is his birthday and I just learned he had a death in his family that might be the reason for the longer silence. It would be the first time in EVER for me to not wish him a happy birthday and totally not like me at all to not gush over him with condolences. I just wondering if this will lead him on an attack, or if he will be getting enough fuel from others at this time with birthday wishes and condolences that he won’t even notice my absence. I’m so confused and kind of afraid either way.

  2. Barbs says:

    Hello HG,

    I’ve found the site by chance and I have been reading for hours.


    He came clean with me, I basically found all the traits of a narcissist listed here directly told to my face, like I was a psychiatrist. I was shocked (I wish I were more knowledgeable back then), hysterically giggling. Needless to say, that was followed by humiliating me.

    I love him, so I basically texted back later, he’s already turned cold by then. I was angry so I challenged/humiliated back.

    Been months since then, is there any chance of having him back in my life?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Barbs, welcome on board. Do you mean that you want him back or that you are concerned that he will re-appear?

  3. SVR says:

    Twilight glad you are ok. With a narc there is never a Disney ending so get out was what I was saying. Respect yourself enough to leave and recover. Then it’s time for a new shinier model of a man but this time a REAL man. Look after yourself as it’s very healthy to do this. 🙂

    1. Twilight says:

      I have been out for 2 years now, thank you thou for being concern.
      Being with my ex wasn’t as bad as when I was married. With that said it was no walk in the park either. I will say there is something about the Greater, I believe it has to do with the awareness some have.

  4. Victoria says:

    Hi HG,
    Just wondering, Do you know about when you will be releasing “Jam tomorrow”? Is it a book or article? Can’t wait to read it!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Book. It will have a different title. No scheduled release date yet.

  5. Victoria says:

    Thanks for another great one! 🙂

  6. Tracey says:

    Hi I wonder if anyone could help me I’m 3 weeks into a disguard and a lot of money down too I called him out because I thought he was cheating gut feeling I suppose the very next day he completely blocked me without a word and has literally disappeared am I free of him or do they always return ?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It is highly likely he has a new primary source (if that is what you are). He will be focussing on her. You will be left alone (so long as you stay out of his sphere of influence) but you are at risk of hoovers in time owing to the activation of Hoover Triggers and the fulfilment of the Hoover Execution Criteria.

    2. NarcAngel says:

      There are a ton of articles here on the blog (use search function for specific articles on hoovering) and books on amazon (that you can download to a kindle app). If you dont feel that you have time to do that to get your answer you should have a personal consult with HG so he can explain specific to your situation. I was going to try to answer you but theres just too much to it. Short answer is he is probably busy with the new one right now but there will likely be contact at some point and you need to be prepared. Good luck.

  7. SVR says:

    HopeGlen. I do not condone what HG is doing in his private life but on here the honesty is helping many including me. We pop in and out when we need to and obtain the specific information. If people want to have a giggle or be flirty that’s there perogative. I know from what you said about your story that it’s not nice at all. But sometimes one needs to keep ones mouth shut and if your not happy you know where the exit is. Close the door on your way out. My empathy does not hold to people like you since my narc experience. One has toughened up. Take care. Bye

  8. KSG91 says:

    Is there somewhere here I can read about which “school of narcicisst” that someone could be? Lesser, mid, greater, etc, that you mentioned? I’m intrigued as I haven’t heard it referred to in this way before.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello KSG91, there will be books about each school in due course. You will find some information in Sitting Target (which is a book) and you will find plenty of articles across the blog which refer to the various schools. The articles The Lesser, The Mid-Range and The Greater will provide a starting point. You should also see the three articles about Fuel Matrices, How No Contact Feels – Parts One to Three, 20 Lesser Deflections and 5 Facts About the Mid-Ranger.

  9. Will the new book be called Marmelade Today, Marmite Next Week… to give it that mysterious edge and to keep us all in suspenders?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Ha ha, no, but I like what you did there.

  10. Do all narcissists believe others always wound with intent ?

    Wonderful accompanying image. I recall reading you have a “minion” find images for your blog. But you make the final choice of image. Why do you not find the images yourself and do they find the term minion, insulting? If they read the blog, or understand what a minion is and that they are one.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Yes because they are not to be trusted.

      I effectively find them as my brief is highly prescriptive as to what is required and I make the final choice. They just bring me the selection. I do not have time to scour for them or commission them. They do not know that I call them a minion.

      1. Pamela says:

        Well, your choices are brilliant, as is your writing and insight.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you Pamela, I appreciate you stating as such.

          1. Pamela says:

            All true and genuine. You are unique and like no others, HG. That should be applauded and praised. You are truly a God send in all you do here. Thank you for always answering my many questions.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome.

  11. abrokenwing says:

    I have turned sex & money tap off. Not sure if I did it by choice or as a consequence of my numbness at the time.

  12. narseeker says:

    When he returned after many painful months of ST, we were having a conversation . Suddenly, his face lit up (the first time I saw him literally glowing) and he said: “would you show me a picture of you all (nearest and dearest) at the time you all were HAPPY?” it was clear to me that he wished to build a “before” and “after-” harm collection. He sounded so hopeful and childish that all I could feel at that moment was pity for him -instead of rage and disappointment. My bad.

  13. c2gemineyes says:

    Thank u for writing this. Some insight I was needing clarification on.

  14. 2 and 4 for me!

  15. HopeGlenn says:

    Hello HG,
    I recently ended it with the narc…I escaped. And in the escape I told him I knew what he was and I knew what he had done and I had physical evidence to support every claim..such as sex pictures between him and his daughter and the baby they made..there are others…like him raping boys…more too..
    Anyway I told him if he contacted me in any way I would blow up the internet with the pics of him and daughter and contact social services and child protective services with evidence and pictures.
    It has been 17 days and silence…what am I to expect…?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It very much depends on what school of narcissist he is.

      1. Love says:

        Hello. I appreciate all the readers sharing their stories here. Sometimes the stories are horrific, shocking, greatly upsetting.
        Mr. Tudor, I understand your emotions have a limited range anger-hate-jealousy-rage. I also understand you keep a tight leash on them here and are very much in control. I’m curious to know if any stories have ever shocked or angered you? Have any moved you?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          No. No and no.

          1. Love says:

            Thank you. Btw, I sense you’re close to discard of your PS and love bombing another. Sad 😔

          2. HG Tudor says:

            You shall see.

          3. Love says:

            I’m invited over to see it all take place??? I appreciate the invitation, it is an honor. And I would so love to add it to my UK travel itenary. But sadly I must decline. I do not like to witness another empath’s pain.

          4. HG Tudor says:

            No you are not invited over to see it. I will write about it in due course.

          5. Love says:

            Yes, yes, it is for the best. My itenary is already jam packed. I absolutely cannot squeeze in a Tudor discard, no matter how diabolical it will be.

          6. HG Tudor says:

            Remember Love, no such thins as a discard!

          7. Love says:

            Sorry, disengage. I am grateful for all my disengagements. They did me a big favor. Once you ‘disengage’ – you can never get me back again. That has been my one and only rule.

          8. ballerina9 says:

            Oh no! Poor Kim!
            HG, Is her email still DeerInTheHeadlights@narcsite.com? Gotta send her something…

          9. SVR says:

            Poor girl. But what we must remember is she needs to have a good look at herself and identify her issues. If he is indeed doing that then he could possibly be doing her a big favour in the long term. I know narc here I told goodbye and am unsure if I have been smeared but I don’t care. I don’t care what ‘it’ has to say anymore. I have been set free. So there is hope for her.

          10. Twilight says:

            Ok maybe HG has found a way to change his behavior or he decided to open up and tell Kim what he is, and working on the positive aspects.

            I am trying to be very positive for both of them. I would love to hear he has found a more positive way to gather fuel and not break her heart.

          11. SVR says:

            Cuckoo land in that hope. You know what he is. We have to be very real. You are still in the Disney mode.

          12. Twilight says:

            Reguardless of knowing one can hope!
            Yet do you really believe I am so blind I don’t “see” him and understand fully what he is capable of doing?

          13. SVR says:

            Never said you were blind at all. Just basically was saying it’s wishful thinking but we know better than that.

          14. Twilight says:

            No It doesn’t change things

          15. SVR says:

            I’m lost now. What do you mean?

          16. Twilight says:

            So am I, I didn’t send that
            Hmm I need to go back and review some cameras.
            FYI they recorded everything that goes on at my place of employment and I left my phone sitting on my desk.

          17. Twilight says:

            I fully understand what is happening, it is my way of dealing with the knowledge.
            I have witnessed the atrocities man will do to another man, I understand why you stated what you did.
            Reading it affected me and not in a good way.

          18. SVR says:

            I can assure you there was no intention in harm. I have a voice now so like to use it in hope of empowering others from my knowledge. I do hope you are OK.

          19. Twilight says:

            I am fine thank you
            I didn’t believe you meant any harm
            I have never been to Disneyland or World, That part made me laugh

    2. Listful Dahlia says:

      @HopeGlenn – You have an absolute MORAL AND LEGAL IMPERATIVE to turn over those pictures to the police. Those children need to be protected irrespective of your feelings for the narc!!!! Silence is the least of your issues, lady!!!

      1. HopeGlenn says:

        I have done all of that. It was done months ago. Prosecution and care for the victims have all been established.
        I find it interesting that HG would only comment and state what type of narc he is. Perhaps this needs to be a lesson to all of you who are playing footsy with HG and think he is so cute.. Narcs are evil. And yes Dahlia, my feelings for the narc are important and my awareness of what they and my feelings for self is what propelled me to prosecute a year ago upon discovery.
        he is not the least of my worries..he is the worry and I took the most loving steps possible, rather than play patty cake with an evil being, like so many here do. We all know what they are and what to do..but this silly banter is what many prefer rather than get away and heal and help others heal.
        Spare me the morality lesson and look to yourself.

        1. Love says:

          HopeGlenn, he just admitted himself he feels nothing (no anger, rage, excitement) from our stories. So of course, his response would be ‘clinical’ and specific to the nature of narcissism. From the perspective of an empath, your story was shocking. Naturally we would be concerned about the children. I’m glad he’s been prosecuted for such a crime. I’m happy the victims are being cared for.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Correct Love.
            I know others will be shocked by it. I am not because not only am I not shocked because of what I am, but because I have seen many things in my life which others would regards as terrible and little surprises me about human behaviour.

          2. HopeGlenn says:

            still playing footsy with this man or anyone of this nature is repulsive. Funny how others find it so titillating to talk to a person who more than likely has committed the acts I described. yet scolds me..interesting.
            The looking in the mirror does not seem to have done much good fr any of you…
            makes me curious…are people on here to heal and get away from narcs and to stop them, or are others here to play footsy with HG or anyone else they can..? I have my answer. Save the proclamations of helping the victims. If you play with this filth, you are the same as this filth.

    3. Jaeger says:

      You need to go to the authorities on that. You surely cannot sit by and know that he is or has done this and keep quiet. Think of the children. You are an adult victim of his. They cannot speak for themselves. You need to go to the authorities immediately and ask yourself why do you care what this abusive pedophile thinks of you. He has immense problems. Certainly someone you do not want to be around. Go to the police.

      1. HopeGlenn says:

        I never asked what this pedophile thought of me..read the comment. I asked what could I expect.

        1. Jaeger says:

          I did. I’m sorry I misinterpreted it as what can you expect in the sense of him hoovering you. The article was why they disengage so I thought you were going from that perspective.

      2. Angelic says:


        yes i have read your answer
        i must have missed the info when i posted my question.
        My apologies.

    4. K says:

      The behavior you describe is horrific and reprehensible and I am glad you brought it to the attention of the authorities. My heart breaks for those children. Speaking for myself, I find that the on-line persiflage and jokes provide levity during a very difficult time, which facilitates the healing process for me. However, check out comment #3 on, The Narcissistic Truths-No. 241, and you will see that I realize what he is. Most of do.

    5. Angelic says:

      But don’ t you think you should report the horrible incest/abuse .. just because would be a right to do so?

      1. HopeGlenn says:

        does anybody read the comments? Or are you all so enamored by HG? Or perhaps your narc? Why are you all here..? Again I have my answer.

  16. Izabella says:

    For me, I think all of them applied. Once I picked myself up and dusted his evil off, number 5 was my weapon and I’ve been told by subsequent victims that he’s actually afraid of me because of what I’ve done to him. He’s a laughingstock of many of his previous minions.

  17. SVR says:

    So wrong HG my guard will never be down again. Quite frankly I am not interested.

  18. Listful Dahlia says:

    No 1, and I am in control of the final discard. But H.G., before I go, can he ever change?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      If Lesser or Mid-Range, no. If Greater, there is capacity to make changes if he sees a reason to do so.

      1. Listful Dahlia says:

        I’ve never been certain about what he is. He’s not physically violent like the Lesser, does not do the silent treatment like a Mid-range, but he lacks the intelligence and insight of a Greater. He seems like an extroverted Mid-range with a lot of rage and an awareness of his ability to manipulate. In any case I guess that means change is unlikely.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          If you would like to have some assistance in working this out, do contact me for a consultation and I will unravel it for you.

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD says:

        Agreed. It is important to really examine the level of insight the person has and assess his/her motivation and readiness for change (what stage he/she is at). Motivational interviewing is a client-centered approach that I have found to be most helpful working with some of my clients who present with antisocial, narcissitic, and psychopathic traits. I’m speaking from my own personal experience.

  19. Cc says:

    🙂 Numbers 1 and 5. Yea, me! I’ve escaped!

  20. Gabrielle says:

    Does the IPPS ever truly get discarded/disengaged? I only ask because he continues to insist that he will stay married to her and will “never leave” her. Yet he’s had many other play toys as well. So I guess this is #2 in regard to both me and her since I cannot apply #1, #3, #4 or #5.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      He says that today. Tomorrow, if needs must, he will leave.

      1. gabbanzobean says:

        Would him getting caught cheating with the predecessor result in more fuel for him (at the wife and the predecessor being distraught which he frequently mentioned) or if it would just wound him. He went to extraordinary links to keep everyone separate, each live separate, to maintain his nice guy religious facade.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          If he was caught cheating with the predecessor IPPS by the current IPPS then it is highly likely both appliances would provide fuel. The current IPPS may well provide challenge fuel which he would react to.

  21. Angelic says:

    What is the best and effective revenge?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Revenge is different things to certain people.

      1. Going no contact may be regarded as a form of revenge (“No Contact Revenge”)
      2. There is the attack on the Narcissistic Pillars (“Ultimate Revenge”); or
      3. There is the jam tomorrow approach with the narcissist which I will be writing about in due course.

      It all depends on the individual victim because these are not suited to everybody.

      1. Twilight says:

        Number 3 Jam tomorrow goes both ways?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Usually only one way, but with this you’ll be able to change that.

          1. Twilight says:

            I do see your point thou as to why now it can be used both ways, for those that can.
            I couldn’t, it would feel to much like lying, the most I will ever offer is friendship. I would rather not deal with the guilt of a lie.

          2. Twilight says:

            I can see the first two being done with a lessor or med, not very often with a greater thou. Especially the second. If so I would imagine you would stay as black as can be forever, or is there a chance of becoming white again?

          3. HG Tudor says:

            If the fuel dictates it, white can happen again.

          4. Twilight says:

            Thank you

          5. HG Tudor says:

            You’re welcome.

          6. Twilight says:

            Only “you” dictate the fuel potency by your perspective not ours

          7. HG Tudor says:


          8. Twilight says:

            Thank you 😊

      2. superxena says:

        Jam tomorrow… That sounds interesting…that I have been waiting for to read more about…will it be a book?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Yes but under a different title.

      3. Victoria says:

        Could you give us a preview of what “Jam tomorrow approach” means? So grateful and thirsty for knowledge. Thank you kind Sir. 🙂

        1. HG Tudor says:

          It is an alternative way of achieving revenge over the narcissist which is very effective when explained in the manner that I do. All will be revealed when the work is completed, but it is a game changer.

          1. Ms brown says:

            in HARD form, Im hoping?

      4. Angelic says:

        i am a fighter .. in everything i encounter.. i will fight until the day i die.. to know.. to understand.. to deal.. to help ( if possible ) to influence.. to wait.. to discuss .. to comunicate.. to care.. to love .. to convey encouragment to honesty..
        and all this also with the narcs who hurt me..
        which of your book will you suggest i get?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I know that you are, this is apparent from what you have written. I recommend you read Fuel, Fury, Ask and Ask 2, Decipher and Sex and the Narcissist to start.

          1. SVR says:

            A fighter is great. Go be a winner 🎆

      5. DJ says:

        Jam tomorrow sounds interesting… I’m intrigued

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