Perfect Sense (To Us)

 Image result for lots of question marks

“Why do you spend so much time looking at porn?”

“I don’t.”

“Yes you do.”

“No I don’t.”

“Yes you do. I know you do.”

“No you don’t know, you don’t know me at all, that’s part of the problem, if you took some time to know me, you would understand.”

“What’s that supposed to mean?”

“Oh that’s right, pretend you do not know what I am talking about. Absolutely typical. It is any wonder I get so pissed off with you?”

“I don’t know what you are talking about.”

“There you go again.”

“What are you on about?”

“Look, repeating it won’t make it any different. You always do this when you are in the wrong.”

“Hang on, me in the wrong? We were talking about you and your massive porn addiction.”

“Only because you are trying to deflect from what is really going on.”

“No I am not.”

“You just did it again.”

“No I didn’t.”

“Yes you did. Every time I try and point something out to you, you do this, you will never accept you are at fault. You always try to blame me. It is unfair and quite frankly troubling.”

“Wait, wait, this is all wrong.”

“You’re telling me.”


“At last an apology.”

“No, I wasn’t apologising.”

“No I should have known shouldn’t I? You don’t do apologies do you, you are so holier than thou, always so bloody right. Jesus, I suppose your crap doesn’t stink either does it?”

“There’s no need to be like that.”

“Like what?”

“Like that, crude and vulgar.”

“I was just expressing myself.”

“You don’t have to do it like that.”

“Oh so now I am not allowed to voice an opinion.”

“I didn’t say that. Stop twisting things.”

“Ha, you have some cheek haven’t you, accusing me of twisting things? You do it all the time.”

“When? When have I ever done that?”

“Last week, you tried to make to make out that I was at fault for staying out.”

“Staying out when?”

“Last week.”

“I know, but which day?”

“It was night.”

“Sorry, I mean which night?”

“Blimey, another sorry, mind you, you probably didn’t mean that one either did you?”

“Will you stop doing that?”

“Doing what?”

“Twisting things around, making out I am saying things when I am not.”

“But you are.”

“No I am not; you are putting words in my mouth.”

“You did say sorry just then.”

“Yes I know, but it wasn’t an apology….”

“Oh I know that; I have learned better than to expect you to be sorry for the way you treat me.”

“Why are you saying that? Look, please, just stop for a minute, I want to talk to you, have a sensible conversation.”

“Are you saying I cannot have a sensible conversation? Oh that is just charming. I am not the one getting worked up and…”

“Please stop it.”

“Have you heard yourself? You keep cutting across me and now you are telling me when I can and cannot speak.”

“No I am not.”

“Another denial. I swear you forget what you have just said or are you doing it on purpose? Trying to mess with my head are you? That is just sick.”

“Me mess with your head. Jesus Christs! You are the king of the head fuckers!”

“Here she goes, it is all coming out now, she cannot have a normal conversation, oh no, she has to be always right, always high and mighty, she cannot do anything wrong can she?”

“Look, let’s stop this.”

“Well you started it and now when I defend myself you cannot hack it.”

“You are making this about something else.”

“No that’s your tactic.”

“No it is not.”

“It is, you start talking about something and then you turn it into an attack against me.”

“I just wanted to discuss your porn addiction.”

“No you didn’t, you want to wind me up, make me angry and when it doesn’t work you keep on and on at me.”

“No, please, I am just trying to talk to you about something important, I cannot stand it when this happens.”

“When what happens?”


“What are you on about?”

“Oh God, it is so frustrating, why won’t you just shut up for five minutes and listen to me, is that too much to ask?”

“Why on earth should I when you talk to me like that?”

“Sorry, sorry, I am just….look, please,”

“Now you are not making any sense.”

“It is just impossible to talk to you.”

“There you go again, always blaming me when you are the one that cannot even form a sentence properly. I am sick of you treating me like this, telling me when I can and cannot speak, accusing me of things that I haven’t done, it isn’t right or fair.”

“I am not doing those things, please, stop saying I do.”

“But you do, there is something wrong with you, you cannot seem to see it.”

“What do you mean?”

“All this, the endless accusations, the going around in circles and it is not just me that thinks it.”

“What do you mean by that?”

“Other people have noticed it.”

“Like who?”

“It wouldn’t be fair to say.”

“You can’t do that. You can’t accuse me of doing something but not tell me who said it.”

“There you go again, telling me what I can and cannot do.”

“Christ you are so infuriating.”

“And now the insults, nothing changes. You always do this.”

“No I don’t.”

“Oh yes you do. You never listen to me, you always try to pin the blame on me, I can list so many times in the past when you have done it.”

“No I haven’t, have I?”

“Not so sure now are you?”

“It is you, you are messing with my head, I cannot think straight when you play these games.”

“I am not playing games, you do. You started this. I was just watching television on my own and you start up with your usual evening attack on me. It is outrageous the way you treat me. You have the audacity to suggest that I am messing with your head, good Lord, your head is already messed up.”

“No it is not.”

“Oh yes it is, you should see somebody. I don’t even think you realise what you are saying half the time.”

“Yes I do; I am sure I do.”

“You see, you are not sure, you perhaps don’t mean to do it, but you do, you keep accusing me of doing the things that you do and it is unfair. There must be something wrong with you. You need to see a doctor before this gets out of hand.”

“I don’t need a doctor.”

“I think it is for the best.”

“Honestly, no I am fine, I just feel like I am wading through treacle at times.”

“I suppose that is what it is like when you have a mental condition.”

“I don’t have one.”

“You know people who have usually think they do not, that is part of the condition as well. I can tell by the look on your face that this is surprising you but it shouldn’t, I have put up with this for months, you are lucky I have not left you.”

“Left me?”

“Yes, you are intolerable at times.”

“Me? But, but….”

“Sssh, don’t make it any worse, we will get you some help.”

“I don’t need any help.”

“It’s okay, we will see a doctor for you, I will explain everything to him. You need some help and then maybe we can get through this.”

“There is nothing wrong with me.”

“That is what they always say.”

“No, there isn’t anything wrong with me.”

“Look, there is, there is no point denying it.”

“No it is you, not me.”

“Oh here we go again, I thought we were getting somewhere. I thought you might be seeing some sense at last. I am not sitting around listening to you blaming me for your shortcomings. I am going out for a few hours, use the time to sort yourself out. I will be back when I am back.”

“What on earth just happened? That was nonsense.”

“Made perfect sense to me. Bye.”


92 thoughts on “Perfect Sense (To Us)”

  1. Wow! Just wow!

    This is exactly how the argument went with my oldest son the day I decided to just rip off the mask to figure out if he was a narcissist.

    Unfortunately it ended with me hanging up on him after I lost my temper, I wasn’t prepared mentally for him to react in the way I dreaded he would I guess.

    Not about porn of course, lol.

    It was about me politely suggesting perhaps he was too judgmental to become a therapist and maybe possibly work on that before pursuing a career in that field.

    I had suspected he was a narcissist for awhile and had slowly begun peeling off the mask after he subjected me to several devaluation episodes. We were estranged when he was a baby and met again when he was 18, he recently divorced and had moved in with me for two years with his two young daughters and we became very close, or so I thought anyways..

    This ‘test’ was the one that sent him into a cold fury and proved to me that I was correct in my evaluation. I have been under silent treatment for 3 weeks now, after 4 months of 12 hours a day of text messaging since he bought his own house in April.

    I am glad I pressed myself to rip it off instead of pussyfooting around anymore. Too many years I have had of narcissistic abuse by too many people. I am like a magnet or something. Now I know I can’t help them or fix anything, and I know what to look for and make them reveal themselves,thank you again HG!

  2. Bloody hell. ‘Hurt’ by nine inch nails is another of my favourites. So obviously ‘narc’ now I think about it.
    These songs are my favourites because they are deep. They intrigued me (no more now though)
    That’s what has always attracted me about men too. I liked them to be deep and intriguing.
    Does that day anything about me HG?
    Or does it say anything about me as a target?
    Thank you.

  3. I had a lot of salad, cocktail and macedonia ( italian for fruit salad 🙂) all mixed up and thrown at each other today.. .. but phewwwww… at the end of the day i was rewarded with a short “romance in the train station …” 😊
    plus waving bye bye amor…
    until the next round..

      1. HG

        that was the easy part yesterday… i haven’ t mention the second course before the dessert…

        1. Sorry for totally going off thread here but I’ve just realised something….I went to change my phone ring tone today and decided on The Who’s Behind blue eyes as it’s one of my favourite songs. And then I realised the lyrics!!! Total Narc song or what? I always loved the mystery to this song but now the mystery has gone. I really liked Limp Bizkits version too and now I’m remembering their video to it. Wow!
          I’ve also got Radioheads Creep in my ringtones. I’m seeing a pattern….
          Any other songs that people have come to realise are ‘narc songs’?

  4. Thx for this article. I found it quite entertaining and humorous lol! She should have just knocked her head against the wall!

  5. HG
    Great read!

    Tell me, does your ass ever get jealous of the shit that comes out of your mouth? Lol.

  6. Like HG said, when this happens don’t engage. They can’t admit they are wrong even when they are and if they are right and you agree then they change their mind to the opposing view.

    During these situatoons I would say to my ex narc. “you are so cute when you talk so passionately about something” He hated that. 😊

    1. situations.

      Sorry, I’m compelled to fix typos. When I make a typo an angel loses their wings…

  7. Wading through treacle, in a nutshell. Deflection at it’s best. My favourite starter for a 3 hour circular slanging match was me asking who (insert female name) is?! Oh how I miss the banter… Not

  8. HG,

    Any thoughts on your kind and MDMA treatment and/or Psychedelics of various sorts?

    I would love to read your perspective on this, as it may be the future of Therapeutic treatments.

    1. Hello Lex, this has been covered in previous comments. I have taken ecstasy before and as I explained it made me want to dance and fuck. I have taken magic mushrooms which was entertaining but beyond that I am not going start licking the back of tree frogs or imbibing shamanic concoctions that fuck with your mind. Mine is too good to risk in that regard.

    2. The future of therapeutic treatments … ;D
      So, no Ayahuasca ceremony then, HG? I’m disappointed.
      Then face your fears without its help. 🙂

      1. You had said that about hypnosis, but inquired about Ayahuasca. Which is a plant. You had said that you need something full-on, not some soft mindfulness meditation.
        If I may say so.

  9. This happened quite often. My ex would accuse me of going off topic, but then he would bring up the time when I told him to eat the last slice of pizza and he gained weight because I made him eat it, and it was all my fault! The infamous Pizza Slice was cited so many times, that I started to say, “Why do all our arguments end up being about the “Pizza Slice” and not what they originally started out with?”

    Two different worlds, two different languages, two different motives.
    Our worlds collided and this =fuel for them and insanity for us.

    1. my narcs is a master of deflecting my
      ” too good points” and turns it into aggressive non-sensicale arguments.. or start deflecting with love- bombing instead..
      Do i ever win an argument ? No in the way i expect.. because he deflects it in his way.. and accordingly he then apologizes.. but all in his manipulative way..

  10. You all have to hear this read on YouTube. It is really dizzying!

    This is exactly what it was like to go round and round with the last ex. And, it would get turned on me for starting it all and making trouble.

    Now, I like a good debate, so I would go blow for blow for a while with the ex. However, as the relationship continued, add in other types of gaslighting (which this is a form of as well), anxiety, unpredictability and fatigue from all the drama, it is even more disorienting. Spin, spin, spin. Toward the end, when I knew what he was and was reading HG(a year ago to the month), I learned to end the conversation and sometimes walk out and go home. Then I would have a glass of wine and go to bed with the phone off. Starve the beast.

    1. Did you have the same debates over and over?

      With two honest people debates don’t usually last long, either one side sees some facts that make them admit defeat or it gets tiresome.

      1. Correct Brian – also see the article Why Is There No Resolution. The lack of alignment in desired outcomes is a key factor.

      2. It depends on what you mean Brian. Are you asking about debates about problems in the relationship or just fun debates about philosophy, life, etc.? Because arguments were never resolved, ever, with the ex, I would be accused of bringing up the same topic over and over. It was in reality that it was never resolved. (For instance, he frequently abused my time boundary with cancelations or being late) Never was resolved. Should have been a simple discussion, like you said above.

        Now, the other side of it is that I enjoy debates for my personal growth, with a give and take aspect. I also like to win and am competitive too (a narcissist trait of mine) though I am not nasty about it. So, an intellectual debate with a great partner can last for hours…or minutes. (The recent ex was fantastic on this too, this was one of our “things”, lots of banter and fun debate). As long as we are both enjoying it and engaged. And, it can be revisited if someone has new data, or new perspective. I have both conceded and refused to concede in the past.However, with the golden period coming to a halt, so did those fun debates. It all became word salad and gas lighting and circular BS.

        1. Hi Indy, hope you are well!
          You were ‘lucky’ (I use the term loosely) to be able to debate.
          I LOVE debate. It’s a passion of mine. Intelligent debate is fantastic. However, debate was never debate in my world. Debate was me disagreeing with him and being arguementative. Any difference of opinion was seen as a slight on my part. Me being deliberately awkward or stubborn.
          “I like the blue shirt”
          “Oh I prefer the red”
          “There you go again. Why do you turn everything into an argument!”
          I soon learned to not have a differing opinion.

          1. Yeah, it was part our “thing”, what drew me to him. He was mainly cerebral type though he had some somatic traits. The fun debates only occurred during the golden period. He knew I liked it so I’m guessing it was part of the seduction. About 10-12 months. Of course later, down the road in devaluation it was different. He was in the “stranger mode” for a really long time tho. Like 4-5 months. Gaslighting and mind fucks followed. Devaluation lasted about 7 months until I left him.

      3. Brian
        i go on at him intelligently with a hint of aggression for hours at a time, basically i do enjoy trying to get him into a crisis so he would finally ” admit” what i am driving at..
        but withouth success..
        although he admits only what he knows to pacify me ..
        very clever ..
        but i love arguments- debates..
        do not tire me..

      4. JG

        “The lack of alignment in desired outcomes is a key factor.”

        I can now see it so clearly.
        i’ ve just said this morning that i enjoy a good debate/argument..
        but it is because ultimately i am always hoping for a trutful outcome to possibly come out.

        After another argument today, i am now exausted and totally sick of it.

        I need help to finally escape.
        i see no more good outcome now..
        and it is heart wrenching..
        i am prolonging the torture inflicted on me.


      5. HG

        “The lack of alignment in desired outcomes is a key factor.”

        I can now see it so clearly.
        i’ ve just said this morning that i enjoy a good debate/argument..
        but it is because ultimately i am always hoping for a trutful outcome to possibly come out.

        After another argument today, i am now exausted and totally sick of it.

        I need help to finally escape.
        i see no more good outcome now..
        and it is heart wrenching..
        i am prolonging the torture inflicted on me.


        1. When you argue with them you get traumatized but they feel like a million dollars. Just remember that next time you feel like bringing up one of their transgressions.

    2. Interesting you mentioned going to sleep Indy. I experienced sleepiness after these circular arguments with my last narc. I could not continue the arguments for long. It is my nature to concede and make peace. But he loved to take me round and round, and sure enough I became very sleepy. Lol I think I developed narcolepsy at the time. My therapist says it was my body’s survival mechanism. Now that I have trouble sleeping, I wonder if I should call up the ex for a nice bedtime argument. 😉

      1. I bet you were exhausted! Yes, stress response and survival response can totally exhaust. I became more anxious and hypervigilant where I could not sleep and I was exhausted during the day though sleep eluded me…I had to take Tylenol PM, briefly I took Benadryl, and briefly anxiety meds (though they did not work). I am now off them and sleep like a babe 🙂 No calling that ex…LOL Nice to hear from you Love, I was thinking about you the other day, thinking I saw less of you. (HUgs)

        1. Hoogs to you Indy! I take Salvia and Amber to calm me. Omg! Best.thing.ever. And of course I have an aromatherapy diffuser in my house with a boatload of essential oils 😁

      2. You could possibly have adrenal issues. Which can cause either sleeping too much or not being able to sleep. I remember after my break up all I wanted to do was sleep. I forget how but while doing research on trauma (PTSD) I came across info on adrenal exhaustion. It makes total sense there would be a connection.

        Sleep, water with salt, protein and lots of veggies and no coffee seem to be working well for me. Staying away from coffee though has been difficult lol.

        1. Thanks for the info Aura. I’m also on a healthy diet with no caffeine or alcohol. My guilty pleasure now is hot dark chocolate. Mmmmm. And it’s supposed to be good for you.

          1. Awesome! That hot chocolate sounds yummy. Unfortunately it effects me close to what coffee does.

            I’m looking into alternatives…like mushroom ‘coffee.’ I don’t we’ll see. It will still some kind of creamer though.

      3. I’m glad to hear that the trauma induced narcolepsy is a thing among we empaths, I feel like I belong (in a warm, fuzzy way, of course). What’s most telling is that we all seem to be taking similar steps to aid our return to a normal sleep pattern, too. We’re obviously on the right track 🙂

  11. “No you don’t know, you don’t know me at all, that’s part of the problem, if you took some time to know me, you would understand.”
    I’ve heard this exact phrase many times.

    1. Me too with slightly different words mixed in. And then when we were not arguing I would hear “You do not know me well enough to love me”. Does the fact that they know we love them infuriate them or something?

      1. I’m in two minds about that.
        On the one hand it could be because they know we fell in love with a set of behaviours that only come out when they are needed.

        So, he was telling the truth then. You were not in love with the real him.

        On the other hand, I think they see all that lovey-dovey stuff in a relationship to be a chore.
        Something that has to be done to get 2 of their goals met,
        1. Staying in a relationship- maintenance.
        2. Opening you up emotionally, so that when they do something nasty it hurts even more.

        I’ve experienced that if you do withdraw emotionally and dont touch them, they don’t mind. :0

        1. Makes sense I suppose. Just got flashbacks of other quotes he’s said that echo similar.

          “I do not deserve you Gabrielle”

          I heard that so many times. Also heard how he does not deserve his wife either. I recall challenging that statement one day. I asked him why he was saying that. I said “Is that supposed to be a compliment that I am too good to you? Or a knock on yourself like you are not worthy of such?”

          His reply. “Both”

          His father had to have a minor surgery one time. And another time one of his coworkers passed out while at work and they needed to call 911. When I asked him follow up questions how his dad and coworker were after the incidences, he did not seem to understand why. He would say stuff like “It touches me that you are so much. You do not even know these people.” Like the fact that I cared was some foreign concept or something. I just said “Well it’s your family and colleagues. You shared their situation with me so they must be important to you. And you are important to me.” He still seemed to struggle with the way I viewed that. So rather than discuss it he just went back to praising how selfless I was and how amazing and caring I was and blah blah blah. And he was “touched” that I loved him enough to worry about these people.

          I still wonder if this was all fake and just way for him to manipulate me or if he actually just could not understand the concept of my thinking. Or maybe it was both (two minds as you’ve said).

    2. Brian

      with my narcs it’s the opposite, often when i am exposing him he says:

      “You know me ***** ( My name) you know that i would never do that,
      you know me.”

      he’ s piping a touching tune by saying that… because he referres at when i knew him in the golden period.. and when he hadn’t acting his narcissistics traits yet…
      But i insist saying to him:
      ” Yes i knew you, but i do not know you anymore”
      he gets so upset at that… not because is sorry.. but because of my constant insistence in remiding him..

      1. Actually that’s exactly what mine says almost down to the exact word. “no i wouldnt do that, you know me!” wow this is creepy!

  12. This is classic! Just another example of a typical daily conversation. These usually ended with me slamming a phone down (pre cell phone days), and the skit of “Who’s on first” running through my head.

    I do miss those roundabout conversations. My life is so normal and boring now…

    1. I so miss being able to slam a phone down. Simply pressing a button is like saying fudge when what you really want to say is fuck.

        1. So true! My ex-narc is a thrower but I always ducked. Such good memories❤️ I called it “passion” during the golden period. Since discovering you, HG, a hard plastic object flying towards me seems inappropriate. Baby step boundaries.

      1. I’ve stopped throwing phones, it was too much trouble having to get a new one immediately because of work (and for calling other people) repeatedly.

  13. I agree with Mr. HG. She should see a doctor, a sexy and handsome one.
    He will give her an intensive sex therapy with him.
    She will be like new in no time.

  14. Why don’t we hang up from a call like that and run into traffic? So frustrating. HG, how do you recover from a conversation like that? Do you just go on as if it didn’t happen?

      1. I have to go back to the book Escape then… as i started but left it..
        the problem is:
        i also get fuelled by ” arguments meals tossing ”
        and i do not not give up until he apologize.. even if he does it for his own advantage… i know that.

  15. Ha ha, I can laugh at this now… too bad I couldn’t when it was my reality…. that would have been way too much fun

    1. Ms. brown I was thinking the same thing ! It is actually funny in retrospect! Lots of the shit they pulled on us was funny as in “oh please you’ve got to be kidding me 🤦🏼‍♀️!” I wonder if we’d just laughed at it while it was going on if we wouldn’t have been better off ? Instead of taking it to heart, internalizing, etc.(whilst removing ourselves from the situation naturally) …S

      1. no matter what we “would have done” never would have been enough or right or this or that… it would have been a matter of dealing with it differently, imo

  16. OMG! Some serious word salad. You talk a load of crap to get out of the blame. You are crafty individuals. Actually this was a tiresome read and I felt like helping that woman, you guessed it an empaths punch lol! If only as we know you would put the blame on us, as always. HG your mind is really behaving like a child. You are a man child. Anyway time for a vinous at least the world will go round in a nice way with that 😉

          1. So I am kept in suspense, so unfair. Please do write faster lol. Thanks.

    1. I know some articles are repeated and written over the course of time, but many of late seem to be clustered together with the theme of ultimate dominance and control. No bonding or attachments EVER. Jeesh!
      HG, have you been blowing off sessions with Dr. E and Dr. O? Why don’t we ever hear about them anymore?

      1. Hello Clarece,

        I posted this at 9-11 am today to Snow White’s query.
        “Hello SW, the ongoing work with the good doctors will be provided in a two volume series called ‘The Good Doctors’. I have taken the view that it will be easier to follow the thread of my treatment etc in book form rather than periodic articles. There will however be the occasional article still regarding certain elements, such as the pro social aspect, but the bulk of it will be in the book series.”

Vent Your Spleen!

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