134 thoughts on “The Igniters of Fury – No 17”

      1. Rebel. I say tomayto…you say tomahto. Let’s call the whole thing off. Not that was anything there with which to begin.

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    1. Had my long hair cut short this week too. It’s given me a boost and I’ve had loads of compliments and admiring attention, New profile picture has gone up, and I’m a little ashamed to admit (because it’s all part of ‘the game’ I would rather not be bothering to play) that I really hope it *does* piss him off*… so, it appears I must like a bit of thought fuel too. How the hell does *everything* always end up coming back to being about them??

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  1. Really!?!? OMG!! After a breakup I changed my hair colour. Not because of him but because I wanted a change. I loved it! Got back together with him and O ohhh. Had to change it back!! He even paid for it! Hmm, after the next breakup (the final one), I changed it back again. Two reasons. A: I loved it like that and B: I KNEW he would hate it. BAM!!! Ohh the igniters of fury. Cant help but chuckle……πŸ˜…
    Thanks HG.

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  2. I would have never thought this would ignite your fury. What if the new hairstyle looks nicer? What if we asked you first before changing it, and you say ok?

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  3. This image really hits me!
    Oh yes, any positive change in my physical appearance: my hairstyle,the colour of my hair, my clothes,my body ,the colour of my nail polish etc. was a THREATEN to him!

    For him all these changes implied that I was not happy with him anymore and that I was looking for other men by making me more attractive! He was very jealous..this was one of the most bizarre reactions I experienced.

    For him ANY CHANGE was a THREATEN because it implied automatically LOSE OF CONTROL.

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      1. My exnarc liked it when the hairdresser destroyed my hair, cut it waaay too short and it turned out bright yellow.

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      2. Haha. πŸ™‚ Must have been.
        He was great at hairstyles but awful at coloring. Took 2 years to grow healthy hair back in a normal colour, as nothing would stick on the yellow. Was orange at times. πŸ˜‰

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      3. Because that was shortly after my exnarc had destroyed me and I was feeling so uhm weak and down at that time – I unfortunately didn’t. Can’t believe it myself. I actually went out in the rain to the cash machine instead, because he wouldn’t take any cards. *grrrrr*

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    1. This is why having a narc mother is so devastating. Children change. Explore. Explore their identity. So imagine the. narc fury everytime a child wants to try something new? It always brought contempt and thinly veilef hatred on me.

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      1. Hello Sarabella!
        Sorry to hear that. I try to imagine the concequences this brought to you. Was your mother a narcissit? In which “school”/cadre would you place her? According to HG’s classification?

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      2. I can’t say 100% but she sure has huge narc traits. I honestly, don’t want to put that much effort into figuring out what kind. I just see what she did to all of us. My only focus is unraveling the damage she did so I don’t pass it on to my daughter. Generationally it stops with me.

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      3. superxena
        honestly, its so much work to catch all the patterns I inherited. I still find myself saying and doing things that seem ‘right’ only to examine them are realize its all just patterned responses. Some are ok, my mother wasn’t all bad, but I did absorb a whole lot of broken things.

        If anything, I understand my daughter more than I ever would have had I not gone through this experience with this narc. I understand her deep emotions, her empathy, her power, her creativity and I also understand where she gets very stuck with what to do with it all and how to respond. So as I learn about all that happened to me, I am hoping I am giving her tools that she can use being truly empathic. She isn’t just a kind and giving person, but shows true empathic traits and uncanny observation of people already. And she shows all the traits that would make her a sitting target (as I have learned made me one) so while I am proud of who she is, I am hopefully waking her up to some really bad people out there.

        Sorry HG… I both appreciate you and at the same time, have to call it what it is (bad) and that is the only word I can come up with at the moment. But hopefully, you are in this rather twisted way of yours, saving through me the life of a highly empathic, highly sensitive and compassionate person from predators as she grows up. Maybe I can give her what was not given to me.

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      4. Hello Sarabella!
        Thank you for sharing with me. It is amazing the way you turn your bad experiences into something positive giving your daughter the right tools to defend herself in life. I can imagine that it is not easy to change or readapt learned behaviours..but it seems you are doing fine!!!
        I am just curious: when did you realise that your “frame of reference” ( given by your mother?) when you were a child was not a ” healthy ” one?
        Which patterns and behaviours did you get from your childhood?

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      5. Just to clarify: I am not waking her up to bad people, but trying to give her tools to question people, observe them, understand they don’t always have her well being at heart, that there are very messed up people out there, to not take people on face value and that there are tricksters out there, and so on. All delivered in an age appropriate manner and in the context of ‘life’ conversations we have.

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  4. When my sister last had a haircut her husband almost divorced her. She now asks permission.
    It probably isn’t enough to get you dumped tho.

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  5. Do you not like us to change hairstyles, HG? I know the ex-Narc’s wife once wore a cute hairstyle when they were first together 18 years ago, but over the last 15 years, at least, she does nothing with the style. She’s 55, her style is long, straight, blond mixed with gray, scraggly and no style at all, every single day. I’ve often wondered why she does nothing to improve her style when she definitely has the money to do so. I know he once told me, “just don’t ever cut your hair like the typical old lady does”. I’m 52 and never would, but I’d still make sure I had a cute style. Is this the meaning of your Meme or is it something else?

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  6. Oh really? Hahahaha! The same shit he did! 1. Asked me if I liked his long hair. Told him I did. I loved that hair, it was a huge turn on. And he knew this. He knew I love to pull his hair while we were being intimate. But I also told him that I would love him no matter what his hair looked like.

    2. After he went off one of his silent treatments of me, he took a selfie of himself with his hair all cut off, and sent it to me. Asked me what I thought. This was after he told me that we were to not send pictures back-and-forth anymore. Because he didn’t think it was “healthy”. πŸ™„ He bragged about his short hair, and when I told him that I liked his long hair better, he told me “the shorthair is so much better, way better than the longhair everyone else thinks my short hair looks better!”

    3. He started to grow his hair long again. And when he later agreed to see me, he said to me “oh I need to get a haircut before I see you this weekend”.

    4. When I saw him that weekend, shorthair and all, he took out his drivers license and started talking about how it’s the last picture that he has where he has long hair. And he felt so upset that he cut it all off. “Here take a look at my license” is what he would say to me waving it in my face. Showing off the former long hair, while still saying that the shorthair was a bigger hit. Yet he missed his long hair. WTF?

    5. Dude couldn’t seem to make up his mind what hairstyle he wanted. Or maybe all of this was just done to mess with my head. I obviously love him no matter how he looks but good grief he was confusing the hell out of me with this back-and-forth hair nonsense!

    So I guess the point of my story is, why would us changing OUR hairstyle ignite your fury if you’re the one that’s changing it, AND doing all this mind game shit?

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      1. This is not about hair but stubble. Oh you cannot beat a bit of stubble. I told him this and forgot about it as I had commented on how nice it looked previously. He came to see me and I just talked as noreal forgetting earlier on in a text he said he had stubble. I never said anything , I never actually noticed but he said ‘I had to shave earlier’. I went that’s OK then carried on. So one thinks no fuel subconsciously given lol!
        He did say how women like having their hair cut at one pointand I just thought odd thing out of no where so never answered. So huffar judge mark de serjuue uooovvv: no I don’t understand that either. That’s narc talk!

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    1. Gabbanzobean It sounds like he was just doing anything to get a reaction from you. Narcs are so superficial he would have thought his hair massively mattered to you, so it became his complete focus. Narcs sometimes make themselves look ridiculous in the ways they try to get fuel. E.g. Trying to make you jealous of people on TV. Saying you have a big rear when you have completely adjusted to the fact. Telling you you are flat chested like you didn’t know. Telling you your house is crap when they don’t have one……I think you are better off sitting back and observing the ridiculousness of it.

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      1. MrsLinton,
        I still wonder if he actually really wanted to cut his hair. Like did he like it short? Did he like it long? Or was it just hair. Hair is hair and he didn’t care what he did to it as long as he got his fuel? Why not just do what you want to do in terms of hair style? Good grief all that nonsense just for fuel? Fuel is more important than the decision of what to do to one’s hair?

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      1. I replied above to MrsLinton….
        So basically fuel is more important than actually making a decision to change your hairstyle and being happy with that decision? How “UTTERLY” silly. Utterly used for emphasis. πŸ˜‰

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      2. Hello Both,
        Anything to keep the attention on him, and to keep you guessing, a long drawn out intravenous drip feed of fuel.

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  7. Omigod. Please say more about this one. I get the male/female sexy fashion criticism angle, but what else if there to it?

    My mother, after not seeing me for a year, picks me up at the airport. With barely a real hello, she looks at me and with that awful narc sniff and head scoff of disapproval, looks away and says, “Growing our hair long are we?” And that moment set the empty, dead tone I took inside myself to visit her for that week. One sniffingly disapproving comment and I go familiarly dead inside.

    She also pressured me to cut it when I was young. Hairdresser was mortified he had to cut it. Turns out, as I put this one together in the last year, my hair was long and gorgeous and I have now grown it as long as possible. She pushed to cut my baby’s wispy adorable baby locks, too. Hairdresser again was sad. I later was sad, too, when I realized she pushed me into it.

    What is it with my hair?! With hair?!? Its deeper than control. I understand force cutting people’s hair is used to humiliate people in various scenarios. Is this related? Some instinctual understanding of how to humiliate by cutting or controlling someone’s hair?

    She always had awful short boy like cuts that never flattered at all.

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    1. A person’s hairstyle is something we notice very quickly. It is also something that a person can alter about themselves quickly as well and as such is seen by people as a statement of themselves. You cannot change your nose without surgery, losing weight takes time, gaining muscle takes time and so forth. You can change your hair in an instant. Accordingly, this shows you have control and you are exerting it, which we do not like. Furthermore, we know that addressing someone’s hair in a devaluing way is very effective.

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    2. Sarabella, I’d been reading these comments thinking about my husband and hair, but you brought up memories! When I was growing up my mother made me always wear the exact same hairstyle – for 15 years. I hated it and as soon as I moved out at 16 began supple changes. She insulted my hair every last time she saw me! Later on when I got a perm, she acted like she would throw up every time she saw it! Ha, ha! I’d never connected that to her being a narc! I always just thought she was a jerk!
      My husband never cared about my hair, but whenever I would comment about how much I liked his longer hair or beard, he would cut/shave it off. Just makes me laugh now! Narcs are always complaining about being bored. I think my husband enjoys his endless little mind games with people as an intertaining alternative to boredom – as well as gaining fuel. 😊

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      1. It is as HG said. You are making a decision to define yourself. Caused problems for the narc. Their object is changing form so they cannot adapt to the new object. They didnt ordain and bless the change. You may look worse or better, either way it will cause a reaction of either contempt or disdain and either way, the narc has to respond in some fashion… self-expression is not allowed.

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      1. I just talked to my therapist about this. I had an injury as a child. One that every day I went in public was a massive emotional challenge for me. Made talking to peoplr painful as they would stare. I tolerated laughinh, rejection pointing fingers. The narc used this about me. Clear source of injury and a way in. So, I always felt ugly. And then to look back and think my hair, tow head blond, was a cause of such jealosy she would cut the one thing that enhanced my looks!! A hairdresser cried to cut it. That was the first time someone clued me in to it being beautiful. My first clue.

        What kind of mother doesn’t help her injured daughter enhance what assets she had to help get to feel attractive, knowing how awful she always felt to have been disfigured by an accident? In a world where a woman’s looks is so important?

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    3. Sarabella, I think I could write a play, a monologue, with the title “My narc mother, my curly hair and I”. But it would not be very successful πŸ˜‰

      I know those narc mother welcomings at the airport very well: “we have to do something about your skin”, “careful, you are going to break my glasses” if I dared give her a hug. Once, she went to pick me up at the airport with her assistant, a young lawyer I did not know at all. I had to spend the rest of the day in a restaurant listening to their office stories without even asking how my flight was. After at least one year of not seeing me.
      In another occasion, she decided to go on holidays to the part of the world I was coming from and only two days after I had arrived to visit her.
      I can laugh now as I write this but it has been a long way.

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      1. oh that feels so painfully familiar. I hadn’t seen my mother also in a while. Picked me up, didn’t say much, brought me to her house and patted me on the back, avoided eye contact and said she was tired, off to bed and she walked away. I just stood there stunned. Not the tiniest bit of joy at seeing me. Interest, affection. None. And it had been a few years. The object, me, was back. No need to express any interest in my life. I already had my definition so what could I ever share or tell her? When I was pregnant, first airport words when I picked her up was, “Why did the doctor let you get so fat?” So, so many devaluations in that. The worst was that someone else should be in control of me, not me.

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  8. Curious as to why? It always seemed to bring a little excitement because I change color frequently.

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  9. Really? I’ve never thought about it but yes, my mother bitched when i was a child that my hair was thicker than hers, long and naturally curly. She would always brush my hair very hard and hurt me. Once when I was 6 She got so mad brushing it she took the scissors and cut it off. I cried and cried and my dad came in like wtf did you do? She said I’m sick of taking care of her hair so I cut it. He then got in her face, big argument ensued and my dad took me in the other room and held me and rocked me. He told me it will grow back etc. He said I loved your hair. I think that it helped him get attention from people because I was pretty little girl with great hair. The meme also explains why my mother would never like it if I cut or colored my hair differently. Or would act like she didn’t notice I did anything to it. Drew too much attention away from her. Bitch.

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    1. Wow…your mother was so abusive cutting your hair because she got tired of brushing it and envious. Id never do that to my daughter πŸ™ so sorry you have that awful memory. It amazes me how cruel parents can be.
      My grandmother(another controlling narc) owned a salon for many years and when i was about 10 yrs old i had wanted a long haired perm. I cant remember if it was intentional or not but she cut my hair short and the perm was so tight it was right to my scalp. I cried all thru my christmas vacation over it. Bad memory.

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      1. Thx. Yes she would also say things like “just because your hair is pretty doesn’t mean your better than me”. Uh I wasn’t trying to be. Or “don’t try to steal my clothes and wear them to school.” Hmmm not your sister and I’m a size 3. Although she said I was fat at a size 3…couldnt win.

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      2. She was truly hateful towards you. I can’t imagine the toxic shame that created for you to internalize that was absolutely ludicrous and unnecessary and damaging. I hope you enjoy your beautiful tresses now!!!

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      3. Jaeger, I was also a 3 or whatever. Straight and thin. Cause of much jealousy overt and covert. I remember her and my sister telling me that I just needed to wait until I was in my 30’s and my metabolism would change and I would finally gain weight. Didn’t happen. Due to stress from the narc, I actually got down to a size 6 again. Maybe I should find him again cause I am now a 6/8 again… not!!! I had a step sister also seemingly jealous. I was so quiet, I never bit back at these b*tches but she made a point once to tell me it was going to be hard for me to have kids as I was so thin and straight. This from someone who basically had no chest and later, never could actually really have kids. I did have a child and carrying was not an issue really. Maybe a bit harder as I didn’t have the “hip spread” but god… the things they were all thinking of and telling me…

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    2. Jaeger Narcissistic Mothers are often very jealous of their daughters looks as perverse as it sounds. Being superficial she may have even thought to damage the way you look, and therefore withhold your fathers affection from you, which of course it wouldn’t in reality, only in her reality. This would have made her feel powerful. She also reminds me of the stepmother in the Snow White story as a metaphor of course.

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      1. My mother had to get into my jeans. She managed and was delighted until I told her they were stretch jears. Take that sucker πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚

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      2. Mrs Linton

        Hello, my mom cut my hair so short that elderly people called me, “sonny.” I was mortified just like you! I was a girl; not a boy. She was a ghastly woman. Of the four of us, she hated me the most. I ignore all her calls, so now she sends me notes by snail mail.

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    3. Jaeger

      That was so terrible and you were only 6. I am so sorry she did that to you. My mother was hideous, too, and so mean. Awful!

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      1. K and Jaeger,
        My mother also had my haircut as short as possible and people at school told me I looked like a boy I was mortified. Not my sisters just me. Thank you for sharing the story, I always thought it was just my mother who did things like that. K tell us something of your mother if it helps I am interested.

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    4. How I feel reading this. Bitch. Makes want to cry. Read my ppst above and a comment from my mother. She said, “Growinf our hair long are we?” No. There is no WE. My body, my hair my identity and there is no WE about this at all. I. You. Separate.

      My daughter is growing her hair as she sees me doing it. Ber hair is becoming very pretty now. I am happy for her. I admire it. Thats my reaction. Not wanting to cut it off.

      Bitches is right.

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    5. Bit of a common theme here. Mine too! She once cut mine in a fit of rage, so short there were bald patches all over my head. I was about 6 and had to go to school like that – so humiliating. My hair was always kept short after that. Whilst my sister had long flowing locks. My N sister the beautiful angel and my tomboy looks made me the devil child. She would always make this comparison. Couldn’t have been less true.

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      1. Alexissmith2016,

        I am so sorry for you, too. It is heartbreaking to read these posts. My heart goes out to you and the others who went through this. We deserved better.

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  10. On point as always HG. That is one thing I never understood, would you explain why that ignites the fury? Because your kind thinks we do it to look good for someone else?

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    1. It is because you are effecting a change without our say so, thus this is seen as a blatant act of defiance against our control. One of the worst offences is for a woman with long hair to have it cut short.

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      1. yet that is what mine wanted ME to do! (cut my long hair short) It would have been a downgrade and humiliating to my appearance …. NOW I “get” why he wanted that 1) control 2) attention to him (I would look hideous)
        3) devalue… and I’m sure there are more “reasons”… THANKS for helping me understand this! πŸ’‘

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      2. Thank you for explainig HG! I did exactly that, cut it shorter. Totally makes sense now. Prompt devaluation followed.

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      3. Okay so if the guy narc cuts off all his long hair and brags about it then it’s narc Opposite Day? This was done after he told me he was told he wasn’t allowed to cut it off.

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  11. I sent my exnarc a photo of a guy I was meeting (on purpose), years after I had been in the official relationship with the exnarc. And he responded by sending me a picture of himself, of him having shaved his head after getting my mail. *lol* Was that attention seeking HG?

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      1. Thank you. I honestly thought back then that he couldn’t bear the impure thought of the possibility of me having sex with that guy. Like a monk or something.

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  12. I was a hair model wassaay back in the day. I had every cut and color imaginable when I was with the narc as a woman/child. I think he was okay with it because I was the daughter of an elite family and we all mixed in the same enmeshed sick social circles. For all I know he hated it. If he did he sure hid it well.

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  13. I never thought this would be a reason for rage… seems completely ridiculous. But from the narc’s point of view and his need for *total control*, it makes sense.

    One probably had to prepare several changes and implement them all at once! Get some popcorn and watch his meltdown.

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  14. HG
    Would you object to a woman whio changes it up with different wigs or would that appeal to you in the sense that she would appear as different people?

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  15. Exactly!!! My hair is naturally curly. But I used to straighten it every day. One day I woke up late and let it dry naturally. Got a lot of compliments at work on how pretty my hair looked and how it made me look you ger. My narc, (now ex-narc) ignored me at work that day. He later called me and asked “What’s wrong with your hair?” in a very disgusted tone. I laughed and asked why and explained the reason and that my curls were my natural hair. I asked what was wrong and if he didn’t like my hair in its natural state. He said no. That he knew/met me with straight hair. I laughed and said, “Well, everyone at work complimented me and said it looked it pretty.” His response? “Well, they all LIED to you!” He said it with such anger and he was noticeably upset that I had worn my hair curly. I just laughed it off. But he woukd also get upset when I would paint my nails red. “Don’t you know only witches paint their nail red?” he would ask. I’d do it anyway, although not often because I knew he’d inevitably make a comment about how I knew he didn’t like red nail polish. Madonna/Whore complex, perhaps? Come to think of it, another ex-narc boyfriend would react the same way to red nail polish. What is the deal with that??? Ahhhh…I can’t control my self or my environment, so let me control the person I’m in a relationship with.

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    1. Not just boyfriends. My mother couldn’t stand me wearing any shade of red nail polish. Even when I was in my 40s.

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      1. Windstorm2
        Do you think that could be because red nail polish, lipstick, and even hair was at one time associated with loose women and it reflected on her? I seldom do red nails but when I do, even now other women will make comments indicating it is daring or wild. So stupid-its just a color, but then stereotypes usually are.

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    2. Funny you say that. My ex remarked about how some ‘freak’, his words, not mine, painted her nails blue. I bought the brigntest blue, green and yellow polish that I could find and painted my nails interchangeably. My normal color was black.

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  16. How interesting! I have naturally very curly hair but sometimes I will make an effort to straighten it (when I can be arsed) and that is how my hair was when we met. A couple of weeks later the comment was made that he preferred is straight as the curly look made me look older. Foolishly I kept it straight. I also had a load of colours put in it just before Christmas (pink, blue, red etc – it was pretty wild) – the comment I got was – it’s quite subtle. It was anything but subtle!!

    I’m back to the curls now – straight hair is only for proper special occasions that are worthy of the effort!

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    1. Flicka
      Flaunt your curls. Why are we all “working” at our hair to conform yet again? I picture the next generation laughing at us like we do pics of our parents and grandparents and wondering as they snicker: why were they all going around with their hair plastered to their heads?

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      1. NA – I do now – although I do like to have it straight every now and again for a change. I don’t have it straight straight – more bouncy straight! The plus side of it straight is that I don’t always have to wash it the next day πŸ™‚ If I leave it curly I look a perfect fright in the morning!

        I am going away next weekend so I am having some pink put in and my hairdresser will blow dry it for me – bouncy straight. Should last the weekend – hurrah!

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      2. What’s up NarcAngel? How’s it going in the C? Two thumbs up on what you wrote. I’m actually a huge fan of the early 60s (pre feminism). Lol in regard to style only, not treatment of women. Mad men era. Hair styles, dresses, home decor. When work gets too much, I daydream that I’m a 60s secretary wearing a pencil skirt and cardigan, typing away on my typewriter, in an office thick with cigarette smoke, while I am yelled at and sexually groped daily by my married boss, who always smells of liquor…. Then I realize, life is not so bad now πŸ˜€

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      3. Hello Love
        Not quite the same ring as when Mr Tudor says it now is it? Haha. Its a long weekend in the big C and I thought I might garden but its quite cool and been raining so thats for another day. My hair is very thick and long but neither straight nor curly. More like dog hair. The south end of a dog going north to be exact. It takes at least 1 1/2 hours to tame it with heat and product into a smooth very loose curl all over. Strangers have stopped to tell me how beautiful my hair is but they have no idea what a time suck it is. If I had curl I would go with it rather than fight but Flicka has a point in the straight gives you a few days. I asked HG about women wearing wigs and how that would go over with an N. I will wear one from time to time but did not with the Ns. Ah,,, the Mad Men era…never watched but plan to binge it one of these days. I did love a pencil skirt and yes there were inappropriate (now) comments such as: If I had a gate like that in my backyard Id swing on it all day Or, (on a snowy day): If your cold from being outside-my face is warm. Actual things I heard. I would just smile and walk away (slowly) and yes they made noises. Ah the good old days……..And I did work in offices thick with smoke and with very large round heavy ashtrays in all the offices and boardrooms. The younger people tell me they cant imagine it. It may have been harder for a woman then but for the most part, i have to say you sure felt like one.

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      4. Lol I love your fire NA! Yes, times are different now. The catcalls and whistling were actually nice… Now they’re a thing of the past. We have gone a bit overboard on the political correctness.
        P.S., I’ve never actually heard Mr. Tudor say it, but I’m sure it would be a heart stopping panty-dropping moment. 😍

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      5. True, but some of us were offended for ourselves. I’m old enough to remember those days and never enjoyed any of it. I’m very glad my daughter, daughter in laws and nieces have no idea what it is like to be treated as an object, not a person.

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      6. True Winstorm. But political correctness did not kill the predators. It just pushed them further into the shadows. Isn’t far more dangerous to deal with a silent and hidden predator than one that is in the open with a neon sign on top of his head?

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      7. Love, a predator is someone who victimizes another for their own gain. I suppose you could consider men being disrespectful as a type of victimization, but I never did. It was just disrespectful. Now if the question is, would I rather men who think disrespectful things about me say these things out loud, or would I rather they think these comments to themselves quietly – I would much prefer not to have to hear them. I also believe that teaching all people not to openly show disrespect to any members of society is a good thing in many ways. When open disrespect is tolerated, abuse is more tolerated also.

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      8. You mentioned the “objectification” of females. That’s why I said predator. I understand your point. However, I also believe people are who they are. Certain rules force them to contain their true selves, yet it doesn’t transform them. Is there less racism now because we’ve educated our society? I would say no, it has just been pushed under the rug. People no longer voice their opinions, but they still have them.

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      9. I agree and God knows I believe that everyone has the right to think/believe whatever they want. But the very nature of society requires restrictions on public behavior. In my opinion that includes not publicly doing things that offend a large segment of your society.

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      10. Windstorm2
        I would agree with you about teaching people about not openly showing disrespect, the problem lies in the definition of disrespect and to whom. Some consider tattoos and piercings in the workplace disrespectful while I consider only the persons ability to do that job. Some would say its disrespectful to attend a funeral in anything other than a suit but is it not still respectful that they attended? Is it disrespectful to assume someone is senior and offer them a seat or a discount? Some women go so far as to be offended when a man holds a door or offers a hand with something because they feel it indicates they are unable to do it themselves. I find it human and endearing. I understand your point about some women feeling disrespected by comments from men and they should certainly address that. For the most part I did not. It amused me, and I chose to appreciate that they could recognize beauty in a real woman and not just that of a Supermodel. It might also be important to say here that I was walking a fine line and I knew it. I was the first woman in my male dominated workplace and all expectations were that I would fail. I tempered their sometimes inappropriate behaviour with a demand for respect when I deemed it necessary, giving me credibility and it worked. There were other women to follow. The way that I handled myself then and now in relation to what was deemed disrespectful is what garners me respect to this day and that is what I believe should be taught. You cannot change the opinion of others-only how you respond to it. That works in relation to the Narc/Empath dynamic as well.

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      11. I am ALL about curls right now… long and curly. My hair isn’t curly per se, but if I condition it right and dry it naturally just right, it is a bit curly and certainly very waivy. An still naturally golden strawberry blond at over half a century old. I just got my first few gray hairsthis year. Take that to the bank and cash it all you hypercritical crazy jealous mothers who wore their own hair in awful do’s and dyed their hair awful frosted colors. I don’t know why my mother wore hers in such unattractive short haircuts and she did so all her life, even when younger. She would wear dresses and skirts and heels and do her nails and all, but never had attractive hairstyles. Don’t get that one.

        My hair is almost mid back and I am taking biotin to improve it even more. My ‘revenge’.

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      12. NarcAngel… do you think you felt like one more then cause time has really changed or you got older and off of the sex appeal radar of men? Hit the proverbial invisible class of older women as everyone gawks at barely clad teens online and have normalized porn like dress and behaviors or representations? I have read alot of stories of girls feeling like if they don’t go out dressed like prostitutes, they aren’t looked at but when they do, they feel just awful and the groping and objectification is off the charts now. I always think the wolf whistle on the street has been replace by the “likes” on social media pics. So much easier to see the pervy men now drooling over teenagers without any effort to hide anymore.

        The sad thing for me is I see many women raging against feminists (the women who protested Trump got dumped on hugely by some people I know) but these are the same women who completely are benefiting in the West from the huge strides women have made to live independently, to have their own money, jobs and have a voice. I had an older friend who is an artist and making her way in the world as one. She claimed to not be a feminist. I said maybe you aren’t, but you should consider that it was not too long ago that women’s art was not valued, not displayed and you rarely got shows or recognition if you weren’t attached to a more famous male artists or someone in the arts. I pointed out a few more things and she acknowledged my points but it does make me sad how few modern day women who bash ‘feminists’ don’t even get how their lives have been affected by the efforts made by feminists.

        Maybe its just the word and we need a whole new word to describe life with more choices than we used to have when all the objectificationa and peddling of women is still alive and well…

        I dunno, this topic is hard for me with a daughter… I hope I can help keep her safe….

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      13. Having travelled to South America and the Caribbean, I think different cultures have very different mentalities on this topic. In those regions, women are much more comfortable with their sexuality and the attention does not phase them. They’ve been raised with whistles, propositions, proposals of marriage just by walking down the street. The men don’t discriminate – from young girls to older ladies. I’ve watched these women handle it with expertise. They don’t attempt to be nice or engage. They carry on as if it is their due. They have the attitude of a diva. Notice me, I’m beautiful, adore me, but don’t get too fresh.

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      14. Well, I lived in the Carribean for many years, and there is another perspective. Yes, there is a much more open display. But there is also a dark side. Girls must be that way to attract and keep a man to survive. Poorer families literally offer their young girls and boys for sex for money. Older men seducing 15 year olds is normal. There is no judicial system really that regards rape as rape. Married people often pimp out their partners, often for some resource gain. Its not so free and shamless and easy as one thinks and there is a reason its so opening bartered. I also was on the receiving end of all you described and also had the same way of being and responding, until I moved to the US and it was a relief to find other ways to dress and behave.

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      15. Yes Sarabella. The amount of prostitution is staggering there. It is heart breaking that both girls and boys are pimped out at a young age by their parents, just to make ends meet. However, tourism was one of the major reasons for this occurrence. As you may have noticed, families move out of the countryside and to the touristic area, because they know foreigners have money and they will do anything for a bit of it.

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      16. Yes, tourism but not only … its a way for survival for many amongst themselves. For instance, Haiti has the entire child slave arrangement called Restavek. This has little to do with tourism per se and is actually a active and alive slavery involving both labor and sex with children…. but yes, sex tourism profits greatly from this. This is a very, very painful touchy topic for me as ‘my narc’ is from the Carribean. It hits alot of stuff for me so I won’t be able to talk about it much more. I still feel the deep hurt about this as yes, he is one who also exploits the desperation of young girls, his fellow country women. Young girls 30 years his junior.

        This is the discussion of when and how and why an entire culture becomes psychopathic or narcissistic. Easier to see there, harder to see see the legacies of it in the developed world where on the surface, women do have so, so many more options but the ownership of money and resources by men still plays a huge role in life here. And if fully plays into all aspects of life in the Carribean.

        I never thought I would see the narc after 30 years when he broke my heart and within 30 minutes and at my age, he would crotch grab me and I would be back to been a teenager coping with all that. Sure, signals his sexal attention and attraction and so, so common to experience there as I did as a teen, but by our definition, it was a sexual assault. Some women would be flattered, maybe I should have been. I had been out of the culture much to long to see it as ‘flattery’ cause that’s normal there.

        I can’t come back to this topic… πŸ™ πŸ™ πŸ™

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      17. I’m sorry Sarabella. This goes to show that narcs are in every walk of life and they come in all shapes and sizes. They will utilize whatever tools available in their society to get ahead.

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      18. Exactly that.

        I still replay the last comment he made… that when I had financially helped him, I was being a friend to him. Never mind a year before, he had accused me that my help was me trying to own him. (I had tried to get out of my offer to help but he went in deep with the guilt, pity trips). Then, after claiming I tried to own him and he resented it, he wanted more help.

        I would like to have said, yes, I was helping a friend. But imagine, I spent alot of money to go visit him, trusted him a second time (he had already terribly hurt me once before), took time out of my life and risked SO MUCH, and he acted like I was a huge inconvenience to him when I got there, admitted he was not charitable, couldn’t do a thing for me on that visit. Conned me when I got back with every trick in the book for money.

        And in narc fashion, every single time we spoke, he had a different angle to reality of what had gone on with us. He knew very well I had a whole lot of feelings for him and he exploited them all the way.

        I still can’t think why he would then turn the story from I tried to own him by helping him to later I was just being his friend, having his back.

        I can only now interpret that he changed the story because that was actually a hoover. See? We are friends? A feeble attempt to hoover me and reestablish friendship without him having to do a thing? HG?? And another hoover months before, that he had just been telling a ‘friend of his’ (I suspect the 17 year old he was love bombing), that I was someone who had saved his life. Why ever bring ME up to her… I was out of the picture. And then to share that with me, another feeble Hoover? See? I am greatful to you for help, my friend. HG? Another week hoover?

        In a culture where practically everyone is using everyone and all, I guess it was all normal to him? I seriously can’t separate the narc that he was to the whole exploitive culture he lives in. Is there even a distinction when it can get culturally so extreme or so extreme in certain social circles? (thinking of the story someone posted of going to clubs and watching the whole narc dance between people).

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      19. Hi Sarabella
        Im not sure why, but enjoying my sexuality appears to have upset you. I never said that I felt like more of a woman then-quite the contrary. Men just expressed it more in your presence then than sitting behind a screen or staring but saying nothing as they do now. Its just more covert. Your assumption that I have fallen off the sex appeal radar of men is incorrect also. Men didnt stop aging and I get more than my share of attention from men my age and younger. I am all about womens empowerment and knew sex was power and that women wielded it in many ways, but I also knew it was only part of me and not my worth. Men may be less overt due to the P C movement (that has gone to the other extreme in my opinion) but they have the same carnal thoughts. If we have made such strides then why as you point out are girls feeling that if they are not dressed as prostitutes they are not looked at? Why are they taking endless selfies in various states of undress and sending them out on instagram, snapchat, and other media? Why did you not get that your mother would wear dresses and heels and do her nails but never had an attractive hairstyle? Did she need to have attractive hair? Those things are all linked to a womans sexuality. Why are women falling victim to the over-the-top white knight that is the narc? But heres the thing- its not what men think or say about you but what you think of yourself. I knew that men liked looking at me and I enjoyed it. Simple as that. You can deny it but you do too. I did not suggest other women should appreciate it-just that I did. That they said things, for the most part I didnt mind and when I felt disrespected I told them so. I liked that men had to use their imagination as I did not gad about half naked (pencil skirt vs skirts you cant sit down in or yoga pants that leave nothing to the imagination) as is common now, nor did we have the means to run to our phone and send a racy pic like girls do now, or sit at home putting pics on tinder and hoping theyll swipe right. . And those of you who think your girls and their girls are above this-dont preen just yet. They are being treated as an object in many ways publicly and daily on media, still in their workplaces, and there is much more going on in private over the internet than they would have you think. I didnt feel less than a man, powerless, objectified, or that it held me back. In fact many men respected more that I held my own than what I looked like. I felt very powerful and I owned my sexuality. Still do. Sometimes I addressed their behaviour and a lot of times I felt sorry for them. They could only look. They still do. They always will. How you feel about it or what you do about it is up to you. Thats your power-not theirs.

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      20. Get it girl! Mmm mmm mmm! Nothing sexier than a woman that knows and owns her sexuality. Work it! I spent a weekend in a dance workshop with some incredible dancers. The most ironic part was the best instructor was a man, who had to teach us ladies how to truly embrace our womanhood and strut our stuff like a queen.

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      21. I think you misunderstood me entirely. And I am not upset at all. Nor is enjoying your sexuality upsetting to me in the least. And yes, if I understood you, it was easier to tell in public of you were attractive then (excluding internet). I also found even at my age then, a vast difference between overt admiration from men in Europe compared to the US. American men seemed not to notice as much.

        The part about my mother’s hair was that she found mine so distasteful to the point of name calling and physically finding ways to devalue, she would lift it and smirk, and yet what, she found hers so appealing? That was my point. And you took the comment entirely out of context from the other thread. Not cool at all!! My point to that comment in the context from which you lifted it was the Narc Hypocrisy factor. Shaming and controling me for something she was failing and why was it so threatening all the time to her, even my baby’s hair … at least if she had a gorgeous do, she could have led by example or something. So that has no place really here.

        As for some of the rest of what you wrote, I agree and said as much but just in a different way. I know exactly what is going on in private over the internet. Makes me quite sad and fearful for the pressures my daughter will face. Yes, I also agree there is more beauty in the kind of sexuality that works the imagination than all the blunt stuff that is going on. Just my feelings.

        Anyway, I think we misunderstood each other on this one. And I am not personally upset about anything you said. It was just a point of conversation as I think its a very confusing time right now for young women and my efforts to read studies about it bear it out.

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      22. Sarabella
        Indeed I did misunderstand you so thank you for clarifying. I believed you to mean that how I acted was detrimental to the treatment of other women and that it had something to do with me being younger then and longing for that time due to my since being put out to pasture lol. I was not angry in my response to you either (people read that of me more than is true). I just tried to explain the best I could from my perspective and believe me, I know that my strong and differing opinions do not always sit well with others. Your mothers treatment of you in cutting your hair was very cruel and Im sorry that happened to you. I know the feeling as I was given the money and a note to take to the hairdressers repeatedly with instruction for her to to have mine cut off into a “pixie” that made me look like a boy, (although I think it was only because she thought it easier to maintain). I thought you were saying on one hand that women shouldnt flaunt their sexuality and on the other chastising your mother for not having an attractive hairdo. Now that you have explained there was a misunderstanding I see that not to be the case, so again, thank you for clarifying. Now go brush your beautiful hair while I pick out a pencil skirt and heels.

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      23. I feel like the latest generation of men (early 20ies) is so much more innately thinking equally and respectfully and they are soooo cute.

        NA: you described my old job at the newspaper when a student and guess who got proteged and promoted, me or the male colleague. And then with women one generation after mine it got out of style to mention discrimination of women, while not even noticing what was really going on and that they were still not paid and treated equally.

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    2. ‘I’m back to the curls now – straight hair is only for proper special occasions that are worthy of the effort!’

      I’m the same Flickatina! And I use to hate my curls although people compliment it often . I would spend so much time , energy and money to make them straight.πŸ€¦πŸ»β€β™€οΈ

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  17. Nomorenarcs, your last sentence shows it all. And if they don`t have success at home they bully their subordinates or some cardriver they coincidentally meet on the road.

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  18. HG it would appear that you have the virtue of patience. I’ve lost count of the number of times you answered the same question in this thread.

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    1. True, but to be fair, several people can post the same question and not know until they have gone through moderation. I will read through the thread first and if it has been answered I dont expect a response to my post directly and am never offended when HG refers to another answer, post, or book. Thats fair I believe given the sheer volume.

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      1. I agree. I think many were posting at the same time. When I asked my question, too, there were no comments on the post at all. When he let it through, mine appeared well down on the list. One day, this format will get too cumbersome to maintain for HG all by his lonesome.

        Oh, but wait, it’s two women! lol πŸ˜‰

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  19. I was probably eight when I come up with this silly idea of having fun with scissors and I cut my hair shorter just as I did with my dolls.
    My father returned from work and when he saw me he got furious..He beat me up so badly..
    The next day we had our school photos.
    I still got this picture of me somewhere with funny hair and huge bruise from leather belt across my face.
    I was his princess and princesses only have long hair.

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    1. Yes, And I WAS a princess, too.. only my mother didn’t see me as one, and didn’t like my long hair. LOL

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  20. My father insisted his girls, the 3 of us, have long curly hair. None of us had any natural curl. We had to sleep in rollers every night and it was awful. We got perms every summer. When I was married, I wore short hair finally. I like it to my shoulders now or whatever I feel like. Whatever color I want!

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  21. I have been thinking about changing my hair now that we’ve been separated for 6 months. Something really sexy and cool. I’ll do that now and put it on my FB profile pic to torture him. I know he checks out my profile pic to see if I’m okay. I only put the best ones up πŸ˜›

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