Little Acons – No. 3


A series of memes which encapsulates the mind set of the narcissistic parent towards their child result in the creation of the Adult Child of a Narcissist.

95 thoughts on “Little Acons – No. 3

  1. echo says:

    Yes. “Because I said so” is a very socially acceptable thing to say and gets internalized early on. The message, not just in parental/interpersonal narcissistic relationships, but in society overall: Don’t think, don’t question, don’t refuse. Just submit and obey.

    1. Windstorm2 says:

      That is a very good point. The first hymn I remember from my early childhood was “Trust and Obey.” – “trust and obey, for there’s no other way, to be happy…” I can remember sitting in church listening to all the grown ups singing that hymn and thinking – this is just wrong! That’s just not true!

      But it’s not just religion we get this idea from, it’s all social institutions: churches, government, schools, hospitals… Just doing what we’re told without question is the glue that holds everything together.

      I can’t help but think, though, there’s just something very un-American about it. Something deep inside me wants to rise up and rebel whenever I’m expected to “do what I say” without a good reason attached!

      Yes we need cooperation and social institutions. But we also all have the right to question and get answers. Without that, it’s just too easy to decend into tyranny and oppression – like how it was for us growing up with narc parents.

      1. echo says:

        Definitely! We get that message too. Rebel, question authority, American spirit, etc.

        There’s a dude in the online narcissism community that talks about how a split is formed in the brain by trying to hold conflicting messages as both being true. Conflicting messages from a mean parent and a sweet parent, or worse the same parent that is mean one moment and nice the next. That basically winds up breaking the person’s mind and sense of reality.

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          Is that the same thing as cognitive dissonance? I never heard it described as breaking someone’s mind and sense of reality. Thank you for sharing that perspective on it. I think that explains a lot about my lifelong mental problems. Wonder if it’s possible to fix it? Probably not as long as you continue to believe contradictory facts are all true.
          Reminds me of an old POS car – all kinds of things broken about it, but still running. Sounds like my mind!! πŸ˜„

        2. Indy says:

          Hi Echo and WindStorm2,

          Fascinating topic!

          This conflicting messages and inconsistent presentation of the one parent goes along with another feature of NPD and other PDs that may be a way to cope with such mental conflict–“splitting”, compartmentizing and black/white thinking. . It helps them to organize their world, to make sense of a crazy world the parent )or whomever) is presenting. (It is one working hypothesis that some believe and I tend to lean toward, though I am always learning).

          Now, there are ways to improve this view-point (believed by many behavioral therapists, particularly those who practice DBT and ACT), though it is very hard. Many in DBT/ACT type psychology believe that the use of strict and intense (daily) mindfulness practice that is focused, (not general OM meditation), and embracing the concepts of the dialectic helps. Some people think mindfulness is “soft”, though when done correctly, it can be quite intense, painful, and dangerous if not done correctly.

          Now, I am not saying that their brains can rewire like neurotypicals, though I do think there is hope for growth in this particularly way of thinking. The brain is quite plastic and thus certain traits of those with PDs can be improved upon, though likely not “cured”. Other types of therapy can help process the trauma further after emotional regulation has been achieved. This splitting and black/white thinking is a maladaptive (though effective) way to regulation emotion for some. Trauma work is much more intensive though, and many with PD are resistant to such work. It is both painful and deep work. I, myself, have struggled with that piece. But, I am a work in progress πŸ™‚

          Does that make sense? Just my working thoughts on this as I am learning all the time about this fascinating experience.


          1. Windstorm2 says:

            Clear as mud,Indy! I made a screen shot of your comment so I could look up your abbreviations to see what they stand for and try to better understand what you mean.

            Could you give an example of strict and intense mindfulness practice that is focused? I do mindfulness practice, but it’s more along the lines of totally focusing on what I’m doing (dishes, dusting, crocheting, etc).

            I’d like to be a little less crazy, but I wouldn’t want to be “neurotypical”. One of my conceits is that I’m not a “typical” anything. πŸ˜„

          2. Indy says:

            Hi Windstorm2,

            He he, I like that saying. Yes, what you are doing is what is referred to as external mindfulness. It is excellent practice for being present and not being pulled into repetitive thoughts that can trigger emotional distress. It is an excellent grounding technique too. Getting out of one’s head and getting present.

            As you probably know, being mindful is a series of skills practiced simultaniously. Being one-mindful (focused), being nonjudgmental, and being fully engaged (all in). It also involves having a mind that “lets go” as needed. These skills would be put in place while engaging in both external and internal mindfulness of thoughts and emotions.

            Internal mindfulness can have a broad and open focus, or a narrow and intense focus. The broad type can include activities such as watching the flow of thoughts going through the mind, like leaves in a stream, to practice the skill of “letting go” and not perseverating on a thought.

            Mindfulness can also be quite intense and focus internally to target particular thoughts (and/or emotions) in the moment without ignoring/avoiding them. (Like exposure therapy sometimes, this is where it can get more intense for those with trauma). Now, more specifically, being mindful of thought process may also include as a goal of catching oneself engaging in “split thinking” and “black/white” thinking and “extinguish” this pattern. First stage is to track it. Monitor it over a period of weeks. Each time one engages in judgmental thinking and black/white thinking. How often and when it occurred.

            One can then move to the next step of replacing this thought pattern with another one. (Again, one must want to change and put their all in it to get results as it takes a very long time to see improvement). This can be done using a skill called Opposite Action/Opposite Thought in DBT. You first catch yourself engaging in this type of thinking. Then you engage in counter thinking exercises. For example, if “Sara” is painted black and one is engaging in “black” judgment’s, first you notice the judgments. Then engage in labeling the behavior…”I am engaging in spit thinking”….then engage in opposite thoughts, a search of “white” thoughts that existed previously and eventually merge them mentally into gray…getting into a “wise mind” state. This countering has to be practiced repetitively as it does not stop this behavior with a few tries. And they must do it, even if they do not believe it….with repetition, it comes slowly. It takes a long time, lots of practice to change habitual thinking. If someone is motivated (and that is key), it can be worked on. Visualization techniques and practicing seeing the “dialectic” in the world, from small things to more significant things, helps with this too.

            It is very hard and very effective. It appears simple, but the skill is very hard. Especially for those with BDP, severe depression (why I did it), substance abuse, impulse control issues.

            I know, I hope it wasn’t all jargon. I am pretty passionate about this stuff because it worked for me and many of those I worked with too (those with BPD traits and full BPD). It isn’t a cure, but it can improve some symptoms of PD. (not all, I admit).

          3. Windstorm2 says:

            Indy, thank you so much for your in depth explanation!

            It sounds a lot like things I do already. My internal meditation is the 8 stages of death from chapter 4 of the Tibetan Book of the Dead (my favorite Buddhist book). It is extremely helpful for me in many ways.

            A lot of your other suggestions remind me of rituals from a course I took on Wiccan Shamanism. They are great for getting rid of negativity and harmful thoughts and also for channeling strength to confront difficult tasks. I’m pretty good at channeling energy. I have a bell set on my phone that goes off every hour, on the hour to remind me to pull in positive energy and flush all negative energy and thoughts out into the ground. Freaks my little grandsons out! If I go to flush out their negative energy too, they run away!! πŸ˜†

            I really appreciate learning anything useful! I’ve made some headway studying reiki. It seems very helpful too. Thanks again for your explanations!

          4. Indy says:

            Yesssss there is a reason why these all sound familiar to you, windstorm. The creator a DBT weaved together her spiritual journey which involved Zen with CBT therapy. I love DBT because it also uses my spiritual side too. It sounds like you and I have both gone down some very similar paths! That is really cool! And I am Magine your practices have helped keep you healthy and protected and balanced in many ways. It reminds me of one of my favorite books, the path of the Warrior.

        3. jenna says:

          Echo, that is an interesting point. Schizophrenia is theorized as developing in a similar fashion – from constant, highly contrasting, conflicting messages from the same parent.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Nothing I have read on the subject offers that as an explanation.

          2. jenna says:

            We learned that in my ‘Abnormal Psychology’ class in university.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Interesting. Must be why it was called Abnormal!

          4. jenna says:

            Lol! πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚
            Good point HG!!

          5. Indy says:

            Hi Jenna,
            That is an old theory on Schizophrenia, though you are right, they used to think that this type of parenting caused it. It is now believed to be highly genetic, though….here is the interesting piece, Jenna, TRAUMA can make it appear more quickly. So, perhaps the abusive mother or father or both could trigger what is already in there genetically. Again, it is the nature/nurture debate. AND, most things are rarely purely one. Most are a blend of nature and nurture.

            I actually see young children in early stages of autism and early thought/psychotic disorder where I work, a very rare population. They look very similar too, early on….then at some point, the development splits paths. What this tells me is that there are over lapping neuropath-ways that are impacted along with genetic differences that could be similar….then change course due to other factors (likely genetic).

          6. jenna says:

            Indy, thx for the further insight. The nature nurture theory is prevalent for most mental illnesses and personality disorders, is it not? That would be a long list to go throughπŸ˜„ so if you don’t wish to, it’s fine.

      2. echo says:

        Good morning Windstorm, I’m not sure. Maybe. Or maybe the broken reality is as a result of the dissonance. The “be a free thinker/question” vs “because I said so” seems to fit in that somehow. I dunno. Maybe only tangentially.

        The “split” that I read about was described by a guy called Richard Grannon. He was talking about covert narcissism tactics and how they break or split your reality, boundaries, sense of self, etc, and you start to just accept them as having authority and their views as true.

        Usually for me anyway that wound up with me blaming myself, thinking I’m terrible and thinking of him as some kind of dark god who was just tolerating me and my insolence. He was teaching me a lesson, or I deserved whatever he was doing because as he said he only had my best interests in mind, or I should try harder to please, or stop analyzing things, (he told me that a lot – that I think too much. He said he liked me as a blank slate, and just be/do what he wanted and not put too much thought into it), or whatever.

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          I was lucky I guess, echo. Covert narcs have always come across as stupid and delusional to me. I have never been able to tolerate someone acting like they think they are smarter than me when they are obviously not. And that’s a covert narcs MO. They are soooo easy to irritate and “criticize”, it’s just too Irresistible! Then I end up feeling guilty for making them feel bad. I find it best to just avoid them.

          Just for a touch of humor – I have a covert narc “friend” in Munich. I am a retired science teacher and he told me physics was always one of his interests. He then proceeded to tell me that the sun (the star up in the sky) recorded every thought of every person on earth in its center! I kid you not!!!

          And me (having so much narc experience) actually maintained a straight face when asking why he thought this. He went into a jumbled mess of pseudoscience/astrology/BS that he had read somewhere. When I expressed my skepticism, he of course was very condescending and smirked at my ignorance and more limited intelligence. 😝

          To me this sums up covert narcs. Thinking they are knowledgeable when their ideas are really stupid and illogical. And if you dispute them they first react with condescension, then blow up in anger and withdraw – scheming some hurtful way to punish you for seeing thru their ignorance.

          1. Indy says:


            Dude, I think he is more than just narcissistic…haha! I mean seriously, the sun is the ultimate existence recorder? Does the sun talk to him too? *winks*

            I knew a man that was likely a sociopath (or psychopath) that would play games with me on things like that. He would “play crazy” with me. I think he did it for my reaction (fuel), though it WAS funny. By the third date it got a bit scary. (I know, I know, but he was hot and smart-an actor/write/photographer, I could not resist! I was daring then. It was right before I met my ex-middy). He swore he had a chip inserted in his body by aliens. Then he would joke about Silence of the Lambs stuff, as I called him “Ted Bundy” and said to him that is why I would not bring him home and be alone with him. (His kisses were out of this world though!). I really enjoyed our banter, but damn, he was so full of himself and was like Narc 2.0. He hoovered me after I cut things off, but in the most weird ways. He sent me pics and videos of random crazy stuff.

            I think I totally dodged a bullet.

          2. Windstorm2 says:

            I tend to agree with you there, Indy! 😳
            When they say crazy or stupid things, I take them at their word that they’re crazy or stupid.

      3. echo says:

        Hi Indy! Thanks for explaining it better, I think it’s really interesting. It makes sense when I think of my ex who gave triangulation, jealousy
        gas lighting, silent treatments, etc… Yet would turn around and say I’ve never made him mad or disappointed him. I guess I was getting painted black then white?

        Windstorm they really are easy to criticize and annoy! Granted I have a smart mouth anyway. But still. And wow, he actually clarified what the sun was to you? Then went on with that wacky theory? Lol that really must have taken a lot to keep a straight face. Well played

  2. Pamela says:

    Sums it up. Interesting new set of narc truths and memes.

  3. MLA - Clarece says:

    This is a bit off topic but regarding MatriNarc and your Father. In your book, “Fury”, when discussing your teenage years, you described that your mother took you to a doctor because you were repeatedly acting out by snapping and lashing out to people at school. Also having the occasional fight and in your words you were a “raging young man” with the fury always simmering below the surface easily provoked if you felt criticized.
    Being that academically you were such a bright student, didn’t any teacher at any time take a special notice and reach out to you? Or when your mom took you to the doctor for tests, didn’t the doctor try to question your home life in privacy to try to determine if a hostile, abusive home life was a factor? Or did MatriNarc have you trained on how to explain any homelife dynamics?
    Since you explained that your Father, being a Headmaster, was able to convince your mom that it was most likely teenage hormonal outbursts and completely normal while you “found” your place in the world, the fact that you were pushing the boundaries to really try to indirectly engage him to advocate on your behalf, must have felt like a blow too?
    And you don’t have to answer this if you don’t want to, but was your Aunt who was also abusive towards you still in the picture at all in your teens?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No because the façade was such that nobody dare challenge it.
      Yes she was.

  4. Butterflies are Free says:

    Oh yes ‘BECAUSE I SAID SO’ is the raison d’etre for my narc mother. If there was a beautiful but cold looking woman in this photo with blank and menacing eyes and a a smile on her lips only for the “public” (say the butcher at the grocery store) I don’t know if I could even look at this meme. Then again, oh yes I could! I am here aren’t I? Thank you HG for all your work. I am clearer in my perceptions of her and of all the ex narc lovers/husband etc in my life every single day. Good riddance!

  5. Indy says:

    My parents definitely said this. And, if we challenged, lord…

    My dad, all he had to do was look at me and point his finger. I would bawl. He was very authoritarian and had a lot of power in the home. And, when my mother’s anger was triggered, it was scary. I was physically abused a few times (dragged by my hair as a child, whipped with a switch stick, belt or brush handle (once I bled from the whipping). My father never touched me. On the flip side, we never were hugged or kissed either as kids. Most of my childhood was not being seen, neglected primarily. I didn’t have a narcissist as a parent, different issues for them. They changed with the years, mellowed. Those early years, though. They were rough.

    1. K says:

      I couldn’t imagine abusing our children like our parents did to us. Dragging you by your hair and whipping you till you bled. That is obscene! And being unloved and neglected is no picnic either. That is rough and I am very sorry you went through that.

  6. 12345 says:

    “Do you want to live to see morning?” That’s my mom. “Just like soldiers” before entering any store.

    1. SVR says:

      OMG! How dare she, that must have been so frightening. 😀

  7. A.R. says:

    Commonly known as the do what I say not as I do syndrome in my growing up household.

  8. Ms brown Cβ˜… says:

    this has been used for centuries, saying to children to make them “conform” and always seemed to be acceptable, not specific to Narc parents (guilty of saying this at times in frustration)

  9. AH OH says:

    I would say this and follow with an explanation.

    1. windstorm2 says:

      I always explained way more than they wanted to know!
      I like my exhusband’s response one of the few times he stepped in to deal with the kids. They were complaining about why they weren’t allowed to argue with dictatorial coaches and teachers. He answered, “because it’s an important life lesson to learn how to work successfully with ignorant jerks in authority over you. You’ll be dealing with this all your life.” Which unfortunately is true – whether they’re narcissists or not.

  10. E. B. says:

    Children learn not to ask anymore, not to speak up, to blindly obey and not to question authority figures.

    1. Windstorm2 says:

      😝😝😝. I must have been defective!!(no real surprise there!). I sure never learned to stop asking questions! – or keep searching till I found answers

      1. sarabella says:

        I never stopped asking, but I was crippled by that kind of response. I never stopped conveying I wasn’t going to go with the program, I just never learned to do so in a way that put the locus of control my court. It damaged the connection I had between cause and effect that did not work well later in life. It was often just reactionary and frustration and all the stuff that led into me looking like the crazy one. Perfect for a narc looking for negative fuel…

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          Sorry to hear that was your experience, Sarabella. I was protected and encouraged in my questioning by my father when I was small.

          While he was a narc also, he was very cerebral in addition to somatic and now looking back I realize he defended my questioning to my mother, then probably enjoyed the negative fuel she poured out. He loved manipulating people and was highly skilled at it, so he surely understood how she felt.

          I hate to believe it, but he was probably enjoying negative fuel from me, too, since my mother’s hurting me was because of his prompting me to question her. πŸ™

          The more I learn and reflect about narcissism, the more it seems like my whole life has been one big massive web of machinations with me just wandering thru it mostly unaware. I just can’t help but laugh! πŸ˜„

          1. sarabella says:

            That is what I feel like. Was I just sleepwalking?!

      2. E. B. says:

        Me too πŸ™‚ Did you become the family scapegoat?

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          Yes. I was the scapegoat. Luckily I was the only child. If there had been others to triangulate with, I’m sure it would have been much worse.

          Did you have brothers and sisters?

          1. E. B. says:

            Yes, you are lucky you do not have any brothers or sisters.
            The individual (child or adult) who questions the narcissist, who does not agree with him/her and sees that something is wrong, is the one who is scapegoated. SGs are the ones who *see* the dysfunction and narcissists feel threatened by it. Most people are not able to see through the narcissist’s faΓ§ade. Yes, one brother and one sister.

      3. K says:

        Ditto, Windstorm2!

  11. Couldn’t stand hearing that and it was nonsense to me. I swore I’d never say it to my kids. I would say to my boys “because I’m the mother” but I would usually give a reason. I know how it made me feel to be dismissed like I had no brains or wasn’t worth getting an explanation. A little love would have gone a long way and wouldn’t have cost a penny.

    1. sarabella says:

      That is how I approach it. If it was meant at times to convey protection, it often failed. I tell my daughter that when I say things and don’t always explain, I am usually doing so for her safety, for her well being and because of my experience. She has a very defiant younger friend and from her, is learning to say, “You can’t tell me what to do.” Thing is, its being applied to everything lately. Its a tricky one but resolving it with a carte blanche “My Way or the Highway” is not the answer, I do know that. But it takes more time to dialogue and requires involvement and engagement and recognition of “otherness” and that is what is negated in such a statement.

  12. K says:

    Whenever I challenged my mother she would say, “Because I will put your head through a fucking wall!” God, I hate that bitch.

    1. Windstorm2 says:

      Wow! That’s horrible! I never had any physical abuse. My heart goes out to all of you who had to go through that. Al mine did was verbal abuse about what a terrible daughter/person I was and bemoan her lot as a mother.

      I can see her point now, though. For a mid level narcissist, it had to be rough having your only child always questioning everything. Always wanting to know the answers to questions she’d never even thought of, much less could answer. My very existence must have been a constant criticism to her. If the Karma people are right, maybe we were both karmic punishment for each other?

      1. sarabella says:

        Karma isn’t about punishment or justice. That’s a bastardization of how people can feel good when people who wrong them fall on bad times. It might be a karmic path however. In that she was given to you to confront herself, questions she could never answer and you were given her to learn on your path to stand up for who you are and to become who you were meant to be against all odds.

        I was full of questions as a child. A massive imagination, dream land I lived in (I get more about that now). And when I posed the questions, it would be “Not now Sarabella.” Always, not now. Don’t think, don’t question, don’t dig deep. Don’t delve into the abstract part of life. Don’t dream and imagine and be creative. Yes, a criticism of them for not having that kind of inside world.

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          Your correction of my flippant use of the term karma begs the question: were our various relationships with all our narcissists meant to provide us with a needed experience to advance us along our path toward enlightenment?

          Viewing it that way may be very therapeutic.
          I think that’s going to be how I think of my narc experiences from now on – necessary suffering to help me grow into the person I was meant to be.

          1. sarabella says:

            I honestly don’t know. I thought he and I were soulmates 😯 so what do I know about spiritually anymore? But maybe looking at it this way is a chance for us to become warriors, not victims and conquer them from our lives.

      2. K says:

        Windstorm2, M. & MLA – Clarece
        She was really bad. She kicked, punched and backhanded me a lot. She, also, beat me with a wire hanger once when I was 9, and she let her friend sexually assault me while she watched when I was 12. She was a terrible mother. When she wasn’t beating or threatening me she ignored me. I moved out when I was 19.

        1. MLA - Clarece says:

          I am stunned. Really bad? She was a horrible monster. I never understand how other relatives, neighbors, teachers don’t catch on that something isn’t right and intervene.
          You have incredible strength. You deserve so, so many blessings your way.

    2. M. says:

      K, that sounds horrible… I am so sorry to hear it. I had my narc stepfather cursing me awfully when I did not do the things he had assigned correctly (I was only a young teen then), but having your mum saying these things to you must be an even worse nightmare.

      1. K says:

        Sorry about what your stepfather put you through. We deserved better. It really was a nightmare for us all.

    3. MLA - Clarece says:

      OMG! That made me jump in my chair! I’m so sorry K. I cannot comprehend a mother saying that to her own child, boy or girl.

      1. K says:

        MLA – Clarece
        It is very difficult to understand from our perspective. When she beat me, I didn’t cry or react so she didn’t get much fuel. She is a lesser and I am no contact. Thank goodness!

        1. MLA - Clarece says:

          Oh my gosh K, yes I’m glad you have peace and space from her now. I want to protect every hair on my daughter’s head. Not hurt it. You deserve that too.

      2. K says:

        Thank you! MLA – Clarece. The nuns (brothers) at the catholic schools we attended knew we were being abused and they did nothing about it. In the elementary level the nuns abused us, too. I have always protected my children and will until the day I die.

        1. MLA - Clarece says:

          Oh don’t get me started on the Great Catholic Pyramid cover-up all the way to the Vatican to hide abuse of any kind.
          Both of my parents went to private Catholic schools growing up. All girl high school for my mom. All boy high school for my dad. Not so much with my mom’s experience, but for my dad any physical abuse doled out by the priests or nuns was labeled “discipline”. To this day, at 70, he still thinks it was acceptable “discipline”. The biggest managing down and conditioning getting parishioners to follow like sheep. And my mother wonders why I shun going to church. Unfortunately, I see both of them having struggled with coping skills in general to everyday life that just gets agitated with aging. So much for that Catholic education with “discipline”.

          1. Windstorm2 says:

            I have heard many people say horrible things about their experiences in Catholic schools over the years, but never anything positive. We don’t really have Catholic schools here because Catholics are such a minority. It makes me wonder, has no one had good experiences in Catholic school?

            I get the feeling being Catholic here is very different from being Catholic where there are a lot of them. After I left my incredibly narrow-minded and restrictive Protestant church, I became a Catholic because the Catholic Church was so tolerant. My charismatic spiritualism fit right in. I used to discuss Buddhism and verses from the Qur’an with my priest. I’ve always felt you could believe almost anything and be a good Catholic. That sure doesn’t sound like the same Catholic Church you all experienced.

          2. Indy says:

            You make an excellent point. I do think it depends on the specific region of the country AND whether they are Roman Catholic as well. I grew up in New England where there is a strong Irish Roman Catholic heritage. Hard core. The Franciscans (where the polish folks went in my town was more compassionate) and I went there for my final years. Now, living in the South, where there are few Catholics, it depends again on which church. The Spanish Catholic churches are a bit more strict than the more “liberal” Catholics here. My mother and I were shocked when we went randomly to mass at a local Southern Church (for the hell of it πŸ˜‰ and they did not require confession to receive communion. Our mouths dropped. My mother and I refused out of respect for my mother’s strong believe in confession. My boyfriend at the time(Unitarian), went up and “put Jesus in his pocket”…hahahhah…killed me. I laughed at my mother’s look of horror. I had a bit of the devil in me, so it did crack me up. However, a little voice in me was still saying, “You don’t put Jesus in your pocket!”.

            Oh the good times being a bad Catholic πŸ˜‰

          3. MLA - Clarece says:

            On this positive note, my very Southern Baptist in-laws and extended family from when I was married, were ecstatic to have drinking and dancing at the wedding. And every Catholic I know has a very potty mouth. Have to let all that pent up guilt and frustration out somewhere. lol

          4. Indy says:

            Truth!!! Don’t get me started on us Irish-American Catholics…hahahahah…swearing, drinking, dancing all over the place. Hahahahah

          5. Windstorm2 says:

            Ha, ha Clarence! I’ve never been to a wedding where alcohol was served!! I remember how shocked I was to hear that some wedding receptions served alcohol! I imagine it’s a totally different experience.

          6. Indy says:

            Hi MLA,
            Yes, recovering Catholic here too. My father was beat by a few nuns, I lived across the street from the church and the nunnery. Fortunately, the school shut down the year before I began school, to my father’s dismay. (Yes, there is a God! LOL). I attended “rosary club”, choir, and catechism until my confirmation in high school. Oy! The lovely shame sham-job and guilt plays that still rattle in my head. LOL….Cleaning out those lovely closets. I am learning that pride is not a sin, finally.


          7. MLA - Clarece says:

            Seriously, it’s taken 1/2 of our natural born life to deprogram. I’ve exposed my daughter to God, faith, read Bible stories to her on occasion when she was younger. We go to C & E masses with my family (Christmas & Easter). Sometimes she asks me why we don’t belong to a church and I tell her that it’s for her to find what path for her faith feels best when she is adult and what’s right for her. I don’t want anything crammed into head. She does great with what I wish we had in Catholic school called Second Step, where once a week they get a 1/2 lesson plan on dealing with emotions (i.e. how to cope with anger, bullying, death of a loved one, and happy topics too).

          8. Indy says:

            That sounds like a great program. I wish I had 2nd Step. I, too, exposed my son to various beliefs. He is pretty agnostic, like me, though has romantic notions of symbols of Catholicism. For example, he got a tattoo (in adulthood) of rosaries and is planning on putting initials of those that passed on in our family in beads. It is sweet, though he has never said the rosary!! He is pretty spiritual, without the need for a dogma. I am relieved he feels free like that, to search. I had to fight for my right to not be Catholic and explore…

    4. A.R. says:

      My mother would rage & threaten my life with words too. I can’t remember what she said only the way she said it….in a growl like voice …I knew to get lost for a couple days at that point.

      I feel for you K. There are no words to describe what it feels like to be threatened verbally or physically on a fairly regular basis.

      Warm energy in your recovery.

      1. K says:

        Thank you. It was really bad and I try not to think about it too much. But, I know what you mean “when you have to get lost”, so I spent a lot of time out on the street avoiding my house. Sorry that you had to experience the rage and threats, too. Warm energy coming your way.

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          I imagine many of us have similar mother experiences. It’s very comforting to share and see we weren’t alone.
          When I made myself scarce, I climbed up on the roof. There was a wind blocked section between a gable and the chimney where I spent God only knows how many hours. When Mama would look for me she never thought 3 dimensionally. πŸ˜„

    5. sarabella says:

      K, Did she ever get physical, or was it threats? You know what my mother said once to me, and I got an incredibly sick feeling inside. Gawd. A lifetime of sick feelings that seemed so wrong. Well, she told me that whenever she would threaten to spank my siblings to get them to do what she wanted, they would comply. But she said of me, “I could have beaten you black and blue and you would not have budged.” What an odd thing to observe and say out loud. She was also then later quite proud of her ability to use “The Look” on my sister’s kids.

      Anyone who knows The Look knows it a look that conveys utter dissapproval so deep, you are stopped dead in your tracks. It’s a look of utter control. So much is conveyed in that look.

      1. K says:

        Where is that Big Fat Mama Bear? Yup, she beat me and I wouldn’t cry or make a sound. It was what she wanted. How wonderful for us? (note the sarcasm) And both my parents gave the look. I hated it. And they were proud of their ability to abuse! I knew when I got the look I had to shut up or else. It worked well. It was all about the control and fuel. She used to lock me out of the house, too. What a nightmare!

        1. jenna says:

          K, your story makes me cry. How horrible. I’m glad you didn’t turn out to be a narc. Peace to you.

    6. Indy says:

      That is horrible, K πŸ™ I am sorry.
      I hope you do not have to interact with her much any more, if at all.

      1. K says:

        Thank you. I am no contact, however, she occasionally writes and then I respond with a phone call. I avoid my family like the plague. Come to think of it a plague is safer!

        1. Indy says:

          Good for you going no contact! Indeed, at least we have antibiotics for the plague! It’s more like leprocy. You loose parts of your self and can last a lifetime

    7. 12345 says:

      I hate her for you, too, K.

      1. K says:

        Thank You! I am so glad that you and everyone here understands my anger! Not many people do. I feel better.

    8. Twilight says:


      Reading that made me cringe, No child should have to hear such things.
      Many comments of such were the start of some very viscous fights between my husband and I. My son and I have gone into many deep details of his perspective and my perspective of things. It has been good for both of us in rebuilding our relationship.

      1. K says:

        She threatened, beat and ignored me most of my childhood. I got the hell out at 19. Negative comments and threats are terrible and cause many arguments, that is their goal (fuel and control). It is good to know that you talk about it with your son and listen to his perspective and vice versa. It helps make sense of it all. I am doing the same with my two oldest but it can be difficult at times. BTW I liked your haiku. Nice job!

        Lies come
        Dressed up for the party
        Truth walks in naked

        1. Twilight says:


          I am sorry!!
          I was raised primarily by my grandmother. The few times my mother and I interacted let just say they were less then pleasant. She beat the hell out of me once, threw me down two flights of stairs so I’m and so forth. I was given a choice at 17, I left. My choice wasn’t the wisest one, sometimes I wonder how different things would be if I had chosen to leave the states.

          I am glad you are trying to talk openly with your children, it can be hard at times.
          For me I have I have three different perspectives of things, child, mother and wife. Then my son and his perspective of things. He dealt with a different situation as to his father was a lessor, my grandmother that is still up for debate. So yes I have learned much.

      2. K says:

        She threatened, beat and ignored me most of my childhood. I got the hell out at 19. All those negative comments and threats are terrible and caused many arguments, but that is their goal (fuel and control). It is good to know that you talk about it with your son and listen to his perspective and vice versa. It helps make sense of it all. I am doing the same with my two oldest. It can be very difficult at times though. BTW I loved your haiku.

        Lies come
        Dressed up for the party
        Truth walks in naked

      3. K says:

        Jesus, beat and tossed down two flights of stairs! None of us here could even imagine doing that to our children. Sorry. You left at 17 and I left at 19. Sometimes a choice really isn’t a choice when you are in a bad situation. And all those perspectives bring up so many emotions. The good, the bad and the ugly. I read that it can take up to two years to recover from this type of abuse. Both my parents were lessers and my ex is a mid-ranger. There is a lot to learn and this is the best place to be. Thank you.

        1. Twilight says:


          This is definitely a unique site, HG does a magnificent job of bringing accurate information in all areas. I do “see” him becoming the number one man in this field. Yes many emotions are stirred here, yet we can face them and not feel alone, makes things easier to overcome.
          I believe we all make a choice, even in the times when it looks like we don’t have one. Details will always be different but we have three ways in making these choices: Reaction (emotional), Respond (logic), or doing nothing.
          Knowledge is knowing when to use which. Wisdom is applying this knowledge.
          Hope you have a wonderful week! Thank you.

    9. E. B. says:

      Hi K,

      Women like her have no right to be called a “mother”. I hope she pays for what she has done. I am very sorry you had to go through hell because of her.

      1. K says:

        Thank you, E.B. I do not know if there is a Hell but if there is, I hope she burns for all eternity. It is nice to know that you understand because many people don’t.

    10. K says:

      Thanks, jenna! Glad I am not a narcissist either and peace to you, too!!!

      1. jenna says:

        Thank you K.

  13. sarabella says:

    Yes, all parents can say it, but it is the repetition of it and the tone, and looks that accompanied it. “Because I said So” along with “children must be seen and not heard” and “no back talk”, “my hiuse, my rules” (so no home) and more. Its the collective of all those and how they are used to assert control and deny you access as mentioned, deny your questions, your reality, your separateness, you taking up space…

  14. jenna says:

    I think ‘normals’ say this to their kids as well, but without anger.

  15. SVR says:

    So what??????
    I just don’t care anymore.
    Point that finger up your arse!

    1. jenna says:

      SVR, why so hostile?😞

      1. SVR says:

        It’s not meant in a bad way.
        It’s meant in a way of: I have had enough, I know what you are, I am breaking contact after many many years.
        To realise that you have been the way you are because of the very people you loved is heartbreaking. Even more so is having no choice for your own sanity but to get off the roundabout.
        Game Over!
        Does that explain it better?
        Throughout all of this I have never been angry, but I have not liked the realisation.

        1. jenna says:

          I wish you strength in breaking contact SVR, if that’s what you wish to do. By reading your comment, it looks like you’re ready. You can do it! I wish i could do it too but i’m not ready yet😞

  16. Narc affair says:

    The narc parent is always right and the child should never ask questions or challenge them. Apologizing is for the weaker.

  17. Windstorm2 says:

    Yes. My mothers favorite reason for all things. And she would get almost hysterically angry when I questioned her. I grew up thinking this was because she was not smart enough to either have sensible reasons or to explain them. I guess now in hind sight it was fury from the criticism of me wanting a reason.
    You are a font of information and insights, HG. Thank you.

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