You? Me? Them?



Once upon a time. The Princess and the Pea. Prince Charming. Snow White. Pretty Woman. Barbie and Ken. The Waltons. Hug you from behind. Breakfast in bed. Picking you up in the rain. Glimpsing you from a train and running after you. The Fabulous Baker Boys. Roman Holiday. Bouquets. Surrounded by your loving family as you pass away. Snow at Christmas. Remembered birthdays. The Little House on the Prairie. Beauty and the Beast. A Room With a View. City breaks. Walking in the foam. Holding hands. Growing old together. Gone With the Wind. The white knight. Crazy For You. The Passion. Spooning in bed. Monogamy. Rosanna. Love Me Tender. Truly Madly Deeply. A candlelit bath. The Best. Gift on the pillow. Save the Best For Last. Impromptu lunch. Dancing cheek to cheek. Someday my prince will come. Red roses. White roses. Opening doors. Up Where We Belong. Romeo and Juliet. Holding your hair. You’re the First, My Last, My Everything. Writing ‘I Love You’ in the steamed up mirror. Endless Love. I Think I Love You. Dedicating a song on the radio. Father Figure. The Power of Love. Fairytale wedding. Carved initials on a tree inside a heart. Giving you the last Rolo. Love conquers all. Love will save the day. Love’s young dream. Love is a many splendored thing. Writing poems. Love notes in a lunch box. A message in the sand. Till death do us part. Together forever. Bright young things. Never Tear Us Apart. Soulmate. Other half. My Heart Will Go On. Bridget Jones’ Diary. I’ll Stand By You. Children. A Whole New World. Paris in the spring time. Lazing in a hammock together. A log cabin by the lake. The Notebook. The Spider man kiss. Notting Hill. Rose and Jack. Letting you sleep in. Bella and Edward. Latika and Jamal. Dirty Dancing. Leading the dancing. Remembering anniversaries. In sickness and in health. When Harry Met Sally. Synchronised orgasms. Sex in the morning. Sex in the evening. Still having sex after all these years. Fidelity. Eyes only for you. An Officer and a Gentleman. Isla and Rick. Letting you first. Knowing you hate spiders. Viola and William. Stardust. Walking in the snow together. Walking through leaves together. Edward Scissorhands. Just the Way You Are. My Girl. Annie’s Song. Matching tattoos. Wearing a wedding band. I Will Always Love You. When a Man Loves a Woman. I Don’t Wanna Miss a Thing. Love is blind. Absence makes the heart grow fonder. The perfect match. Our love is predestined. It was written in the stars above. Love at first sight. Mr/Mrs Right, “My one and only,” “man/woman of my dreams,” “match made in heaven,” “love of my life,” “my true love,” “made for each,” “my perfect match,” “I met the love of my life,” “I knew this was the one.”  “We were meant for each other.” “instant connection,” “clicked right away,” “chemistry at first sight,” “hit it off right away,” “experienced immediate attraction,” “instant rapport,” “completely hit it off,” “it was magical,” “you put a spell on me” . Love is a river that drowns the tender reed. The perfect house. The country idyll. Home is where the heart is. Wuthering Heights. Jayne Eyre. Twilight. The Hunger Games. Gabriel’s Inferno. Water for Elephants. Warming the bed first. Investigating a bump in the night. Holding you during a storm. Never being taken for granted. Perfection. Having it all. The Happy Ever After.

False promises and unrealistic ideals created by them.

A gateway to the false promised land, to the unrealistic ideal life offered and exploited by us.

Resorting to self-destructive and addictive behaviours in order to compensate for these failings and disappointments by becoming entangled with us again and again and again. That’s you.

Who is to blame?

63 thoughts on “You? Me? Them?

  1. jenna says:

    Kp, “… there was lots of devaluing going on too… ” – i see. It’s the contrast they need, which HG explains in some articles. Ty for your reply.

  2. jenna says:

    Indy, hehe!

  3. C★ says:

    HG… You left out “Pandora’s Box”….

    1. Windstorm2 says:

      Ha, ha, C⭐️!
      My narc mother used to threaten me with that story – why I should never examine anything too closely.
      I think some narc invented that story to help protect façades! Maybe that’s why they have to devalue and keep us off balance. We just can’t keep from opening those boxes! 😄

      1. C★ says:

        My recent N husband referred to this when I discovered & opened “The Vault”…

  4. Marjorie Murphy says:

    When mind reading is possible I will gladly take the blame. For now Dear HG…your kind is to blame.

  5. Just Me says:

    I have been on dating websites on and off. That’s where I met my ex narc. The men I have came accross are so shallow, that it’s almost unbelievable. They treat women like piece of meat and have absolutely no intentions of getting to know you. So when one of your cunning kind comes along, shows interest, behaves respectfully and starts to lovebomb, then it is very easy to become a victim. I blame the other men who are looking for playboy models and a qucik porn experience which plays us into the hands of your kind.

    1. MLA - Clarece says:

      Just Me! You nailed it with the online dating experience. Have stayed away and not met anyone that way for 2 years.

  6. Scout says:

    On the question of ‘love’ or ‘romance’ no-one is to blame. The narcissist’s and the Empath’s brains are wired differently so, biologically speaking, the blame game serves no purpose. When I read this blog I see two opposing belief systems at work; two opposing realities. In this sense there is no right or wrong, but there are two outcomes when these two belief systems are viewed objectively; one belief system has a very positive outcome for a beneficial relation ship, while the other belief system is loaded with such negativity, bonding will be impossible, and any trace of “love’ will wither and die.
    It is up to all of us to recognise people have different belief systems and it’s up to us to take responsibility for those beliefs and any consequences as a result of entanglement, but pointing the finger and off-loading guilt is futile imo.

  7. Indy says:

    Whose to blame?
    Well, all those movies/books/poems/cards put out by Hollywood/businesses and romantic artists are intended for entertainment and fantasy. I do not know anyone that has decided that they would look for 7 little men and hide out in the woods. I do not blame society as we all have a brain. If you do not have the ability to know that you will not be seduced by a vampire romantically in this life time, then you have bigger concerns than narcissists. So, not “them”.

    The wounds that “we” reenact are unconscious and not created by the media. It is likely they are wounds from early parental attachment styles and we are not conscious of it typically. We do not wake up and say, “oh boy, I think I want to destroy my life repetitively with jack asses”. “We” are not to blame….AND, despite this… we still have the responsibility for our behaviors and to heal ourselves and recognize the patterns. We are put in position to stop the cycle of abuse and we have to do this for our own sanity. No one saves us, but us. No knights for me, I got my own damn sword.

    Now, with predators that know they are exploiting those wounds of early attachment, they are definitely culpable. It is conscious and targeted. Those that are not aware of why they do what they do but still engage in manipulations, they are responsible for their behaviors. Simple. They know the difference between right and wrong and still do it. So they are to blame for their behaviors. No one will save you but yourself. Just like your targets.

    Bottom line, we all are responsible for our actions. We are not responsible for the abuse that is inflicted on us. As adults that have been targeted and abused, we are responsible for getting out, for ourselves and our children, and starting the healing process. Just like video games do not cause murderers, love stories do not cause people to have delusions. It comes well before that television set or gaming console is turned on.

    1. Windstorm2 says:

      Brava!!! Brava!!!! 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
      Absolutely loved it!! Totally agree!!!!

    2. MLA - Clarece says:

      Hi Indy! I love your response to this. I interpret a Carl Jung influence to it with reference to the subconscious and the complexes surrounding that.

      1. Indy says:

        Thank you MLA.

        That is an interesting point, I do love Jung. However, what I had in mind was more attachment related(Attachment styles). I do believe we subconsciously reenact relationship patterns we learned when we were given our blue prints from our parents. I am exploring that now in myself a bit more deeply. I am looking at why I seek certain types of men in my life and how my childhood influenced that. (Well, I have the insight, it is just not doing it. At times, it is really still subconscious with me when I become attracted. That or I am too emotion minded when I become infatuated.)

        1. MLA - Clarece says:

          Hi Indy! I did understand the attachment related angle you were conveying too. I think it does get so intertwined with what gets buried in our subconscious and if not resolved, it plays over like a record in our life until it is.

        2. MLA - Clarece says:

          Indy – you look stunning! No wonder you’re getting Hoovers 20 years down the pike! A true beauty!

          1. Indy says:

            Aww Thank you MLA, very kind of you. I decided to take it back down because I was a little nervous putting it up and being found. I did it because I definitely enjoy seeing all of y’all’s faces and thought to do the same.To be honest, 20 years being hoovered is more about him and less about me. (Well, I suppose my fuel lol). And girl, with those blue eyes of yours!! Shoot!

          2. windstorm2 says:

            Glad I got to see it. I noticed NarcAngel took hers down as well. It does make you feel more vulnerable. For me the anonymity here is what let’s me share. In “real life” I keep most of my feelings to myself. The only people I ever share much with are my narcs and my children, because neither of those groups will feel the need to correct and fix me. The narcs may even give some insights (my kids are probably just embarrassed that their mother is crazy!)

            You look as caring and confident as your words. Your intelligence, caring and confidence shines out. Very glad you’re in my spiritual family!

          3. Indy says:

            Oh thank you, Windstorm,

            That means a lot to me coming from you. I so admire your wisdom and beautiful soul.

            I am so glad we met here and part of my spiritual family as well. ((hugs))
            Yes, this place I share more than in most as well, except maybe my sister, so yes, it is like being with a family here. Without the pesky holiday dramas..hehe.

          4. MLA - Clarece says:

            Hi Indy!
            I feel very lucky that I got to see your picture then! See, now I can picture you indulging in some special brownies! And using aromatherapy oils!
            All of HG’s favorite things! lol
            Thank you for the compliment on my eyes. In high school some of my friends said Kim Carnes song “Bette Davis Eyes” was about me. I can never have a poker face. My eyes give everything away but they’re one of my best assets too so I can’t complain.

          5. Indy says:

            Oh that song is perfect for you! I used to live that song. Also, that song, Blue Eyes…I always wanted blue eyes, I got green hazel. My sis, son and grandson all got the blues, lucky!

            This one is for you MLA❤️

          6. MLA - Clarece says:

            Awww, thanks Indy! I feel like a just got a song dedication. Remember back in the day when radio dj’s would take requests and do dedications from the listeners? I used to always love listening to those messages. Lol

          7. Indy says:

            Me too! I remember when a pen pal of mine from Australia sent in a request on my 15th birthday to my small town radio station and I was on cloud 9!

            We kept contact for years, touching base, though that was a favorite moment. Later in my 20s he confessed he was from a very well known family in politics, with a knighted uncle in music. I then looked him up and it was true. It was interesting that he kept it hidden. When I met him(he stopped in my city), I was less impressed 😂 A rude little fucker. But he can party!
            The good ole days.

        3. jenna says:

          Beautiful pic indy! You do not look your age at all! Lovely smile too! 💖

          1. Indy says:

            Aww thank you Jenna. I can thank my mother for my skin. She looked young for a really long time, I think it was the native american or latina in her that kept her skin youthful for a long time. Plus, I eat souls, remember my biscuits and gravy story? They are made with babies souls in Georgia.

    3. Mary says:

      Beautifully said, Indy. I agree – we are not at fault for being abused, but we do have the responsibility of saving ourselves and working on healing what it is inside us that attracts us to abusers.

      1. Indy says:

        Thank You Mary 🙂

  8. Diva says:

    I just can’t resist reading that first long paragraph of this post again and again and again…..I ignore the subsequent paragraphs……it’s by far the best paragraph you have written to date…….in my peculiar opinion!!! I can relate to so much here…… had me at the mention of Little House on The Prairie……oh I so wanted to have Charles Ingalls as my dad……this is going to form part of my new bucket list………can you write Chapter 2, Chapter 3 …….to infinity please!!!!!

  9. Sarah says:

    Very nice array of cheesy crap as ex would say! I think I love you by the Partridge familiy? lol You must be old Sir T. Mine used Princess Bride’s “As you wish’ instead of course…

  10. Diva says:

    Well well well……you certainly have it all down to a fine art……if we didn’t know any different we would guess that you were a romantic at heart…….(do narcs have a heart????) whatever the case…..I believe there is hope for you yet HG…….with a lot of brainwashing and I mean copious amounts…..maybe the distortion could be reversed…….I live in hope……as always……..

  11. DontMentionTheWar says:

    For me the complete romantic gateway had to be replaced. If a (narcissistic or not) man would ask me “Do you want to solve a Martin Gardner puzzle with me?”, that would be enough to be completely blind in all other aspects 🙂

    I understand your question “Who is to blame?”. In my eyes, regarding the behaviour of the person who comes together with the narcissist, the human is to blame who took away the feeling of self worth in that person.

    Regarding the narcissist´s behaviour is to blame the one who took the feeling of self worth away when the narcissist was very, very young and also cared for that it is made sure that nobody does open at least his mind so that he could have noticed that there is something good in him that no one could ever take away from him and that he could always rely on.

  12. Mona says:

    I am responsible for my own happiness. And I do now all the things he promised me to do together, things, I really longed for. Some of them I fulfilled through this year.

    And your kind is not invited to spend this beautiful time with me.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Not invited?! Not invited?! How dare you!

      1. Mona says:

        Be glad not to share. It is even better for a narc sometimes. Or would you like to climb on a mountain and hang at the rope beneath me?

      2. jenna says:

        Mona may not invite you but there are plenty of pple here who would!!! 😉

      3. Narc affair says:

        Uh ohhhh now youve done it mona 😄

  13. Mona says:

    I did not read your comment, before I posted the next one.

    I had only one entanglement with a male narcissist. And I hope, it was the first and the last one.

    Of course – I failed because I loved this time of infatuation. But I always knew it is only a question of time before reality is in the relationship.
    The reality came but not in the way I expected it.

    I expected some boredom, I expected some arguments about different opinions and I even expected some boredom of physical attraction.
    And it was there for a short time. I was bored, but I did not show, because I thought, now the real relationship would start.

    I expected on the other hand a smooth water relationship, trusting and helping each other.
    That was what I was looking for.

    I expected him to do his best to make love function after infatuation and I wanted to do the same.

    I am not to blame for your kind`s exaggeration of infatuation. Of course I enjoyed it. Now I know better.

    I “invested” in a real relationship, not in a fantasy- anyway I thought so.

    That was my fault and I am responsible for that. .

  14. Flickatina says:

    I can’t take this seriously as all I can hear in my head is The Blues Brothers…..

  15. Mona says:

    Romeo and Juliet, they died.
    Titanic film- one of them had to die..
    I never liked this kind of films. I do not like films in which one or the other has to suffer or to die after “LOVE” or for “LOVE”.

    Love starts when it is getting boring…

    The Waltons, The Little House on the Prairie- too much unrealistic except you look at Nelly and her mother. A long time I thought Nelly is an exaggeration or a caricature. No, she and her mother are of your kind and they exist.

    What about the Taj Mahal?

    What about the story of one sultan who preferred to live monogamous with one of his harem and was nearly killed for that behaviour?
    That is not a fiction, there is a documentary about it.

  16. Mona says:

    I must disappoint you. But my uncle and aunt lived this “illusion” for more than 40 years until death separated them in a natural way. He thanked her for the beautiful life they had together. And she is thankful, that she has had all these years. They lived “love”, “up and downs” and looked back on their mutual life with proud and satisfaction. They respected each other all the time of their life.

    Whom of them is to blame for their happy life and love ?

    Are they terrible people in your mind?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Their situation is not the point of the article Mona.

  17. Diana Culda says:

    The way you put it, can we really talk about blame ..? Granted, yes, there is a specific motivation behind Prince Charmings behaviour. But it does fulfill an existing desire inside Snow White. There is always a mutual interest in a relationship between two adults. So if the “victim” is consenting, is there a victim ? I may not be in the best position to analyze, and yes, we can absolutely find ourselves in a weak spot thus being taken advantage of, but there is no apparent coercion. Just a consistent delivery of dreams, pushing forward the little girl (boy ?) that still exists inside of us. IMHO understanding wins over blaming.

  18. Klm says:

    You are to blame until we realize who you really are and then if we choose to stay or break no then we are to blame.

  19. June says:

    Who’s to blame? My experience isn’t a romantic one, but it’s still a fascinating question to contemplate all the same. I suppose everyone is…and no-one is.

    My father manipulated me into being what he wanted since birth. And since birth I’ve chosen to listen instead of telling him to go to hell.

    My mother isn’t a narcissist, and she’s actually really very nice and empathetic…to nearly anyone who isn’t me. I wonder sometimes if the mere thought of me makes her go supernova and turn into a passive-aggressive bitch. But if I’m being honest, I’m not really at my best when talking to her either.

    Well, she did spend all her time boinking her boyfriend while my dad was in prison. And acted like I had no right to be upset, because my pain could never be as great as hers. Then again, she may have acted like she did partly because I spent the year before telling my dad everything she said behind her back. But I was incredibly pissed about finding out about that affair. And at the same time I thought I was helping her. It was a complicated mindset.

    And she also resented me greatly for basically blackmailing her into taking me and my brother to visit my father in prison, which she didn’t want to do because she claimed he emotionally abused her.

    SIGH. I suppose we treated each other like shit, and the relationship we have (utterly surface-level) is the one we both deserve because it’s the one we created. There is no trust between us. We killed it. With fire. And re-burnt the ashes.

    So I guess there’s blame to go around. Nobody’s truly innocent except little children, and that may be because they don’t have the capacity to really do anything yet.

    Sorry for the unhappy post. I’m just tired and this post made me depressed.

    1. June says:

      Looking at that after a night of sleep…yep, it’s still as awful as it was last night. And I didn’t even get into all of it. I’m not sure if all that we’ve done to each other CAN be overcome…and if it could, I really don’t think either of us has what it takes.

      So, here’s what I will never say to my mother in person…

      I don’t hate you. I’m sorry for my part in making our relationship the way it is. Maybe someday you’ll regret yours. Or maybe you already do, but like me will never say it. I suppose we’ll never know.

      I don’t want you to be miserable. Be happy. Be free. Be at peace. I don’t think you’re evil or a bad person or anything like that. A bad mother for basically giving up on me and abandoning me when I needed you most? Honestly, yeah. But blaming and recriminations are NOT the point of this letter I will never send. And there’s probably something I did you think is completely awful and unforgivable. I have my suspicions as to what, but I won’t put words in your mouth.

      I had my reasons for doing what I did, and you had yours. And we’ll probably never approve of each other’s choices in life. But I wish we could just let each other LIVE. We both know we’ll never live a life that the other will be proud of, but maybe we can live lives that we’re proud of ourselves.

      I did say maybe.


      (Apologies for making you read all my drivel, HG. But real therapy is expensive and not anonymous.)

  20. KP says:

    I think the problem here is that love feels like that in the beginning of a relationship…for you I believe it’s idealization. We know that “fairy tale” romance is a just phase and in time you always love the person, but not in that same exact way. It is supposed to become a deeper feeling of respect, trust, mutual care and concern for each other. Your kind thinks that that the romantic part is supposed to continue throughout the whole relationship. There are moments of that still of course, but not to the degree that it is in the beginning. I actually thought it was strange that my ex continued to act that way for 9 years. It felt immature to me to be honest with you. I was never in a relationship where all that love-bombing continued as long as it did with him. Maybe that is why I fell for the soulmate connection. It was nice, don’t get me wrong, but it felt odd. I think your kind thinks it must continue or something is wrong in the relationship, so then you go off to find it with someone else. But, how can we feel romantic while you are doing all the destructive things to lose trust in the relationship? That is when I could no longer have the same feelings for him. To me, trust is very important…not the fairy tale. I believe you are saying you exploit the fairy tale and we just become addicted to it. It is sad to me that your kind doesn’t trust someone else to be there for them long term. I suppose that would be too boring for you anyway….

    1. Narc affair says:

      Hi Kp…your post hit it on the nail for me. Ive been guilty of this in my marriage for different reasons but have learned that this idealization phase/ newness phase isnt meant to last. Even over time attraction wears off. My hubby has always been extremely attractive. Hes been oblivious to it but i never felt i measured up to him in that regard yet over the many years im no longer attracted to him. Its worn off due to different dynamics within our relationship. The newness doesnt last and isnt meant to stay that way. The meaningful part is and thats being able to rely on that person, helping each other thru rough times, being there during illnesses or health related issues, growing and learning together. Oddly the abusive relationship is teaching me how valuable these aspects are and how i have taken them for granted.
      The narcissists love grows stale bc they have this idea of idealization for eternity but they know it isnt achievable so they recycle supply to regenerate that phase. They need the high from it to snuff out what theyre running away from in life…themselves.

    2. jenna says:

      KP, 9 yrs of love bombing? I thought narcs get bored faster than that. If i remember correctly, HG had stated in an article that even making it to the one yr mark is a challenge. Was it 9 yrs of seduction, devalue, respite, repeat? Thank you.

      1. RecoveringNarcoholic says:

        Jenna, I’m sure HG will correct me if I’m wrong — but I don’t think it’s entirely unusual for midrangers to have long golden periods, because they’re essentially passive and lazy. And they’re so committed to the facade that they even lie to themselves. The golden period with mine went on for about 7 years.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          There is merit in what you have written RN.

          1. jenna says:

            Recoveringnarc, i asked kp this and i will ask u the same. Was it a cycle of seduction, devaluation, respite, repeat during the 7 yrs?
            If it was not, and it was only seduction, then i’ll b jealous of my ex’s future wife. 😩

      2. KP says:

        Yes, I actually always got gifts, flowers, cuddles, kisses and sex every day… but, there was lots of devaluing going on too. I think I was a very good source of supply, due to my helping him financially, encouraging his career and hobbies and I’m very empathetic. He was cheating the whole time and acting just like HG writes… I was just very much in love and thought you married for better or worse. I didn’t expect the worst of the worst! He hooked me with all of the love-bombing and I just thought he was immature due to him being younger than me. I forgave many things I shouldn’t have. I would still be there if it were not for the woman in my bed on Xmas! Nice gift, huh? Then he got another one pregnant during the separation and tried to hoover me back. I said no of course. He later asked if I would be the babies Aunt!! I guess you could call that a type of hoover??? So, I have court with him next week for the 5th time… not looking forward to that one. It never ends….

    3. Windstorm2 says:

      Very accurate

      1. KP says:

        Thanks… and to be clear, yes… recycled 3 times in that period. As were at least two of the other women. There is another I am very curious about, but not enough to ask. She was “crazy” you know. I just feel foolish now. We had a nice life, if I had only stopped “playing detective” as he told me! In reality, I was miserable more than not and didn’t even respect myself enough to get away from him. He told me he had put me through enough and it was my time for a break, lol I think he is very aware of himself.

  21. AgeLess says:

    It’s frightening how many you’ve ensnared, if these are indeed all your supplies’ hopes and dreams. I’m guilty of assuming you’re just like the greater I was with and he did confess, amongst many other things that he has had way too many women. I should’ve run then but just as when he told me what he really was (several times in fact), it didn’t put me off at all. Instead I continued to be spellbound. I have no memory of what I said in response whenever he told me how many women he’s been with, highly suspect it was “I still adore thee, sex god” as that’s what I was most likely thinking then. Sex is almost always key to ensnaring a victim. Was I to blame?

    Knowing you hate spiders. 😆

    JaYne Eyre?! One of my favourites.

    1. Narc affair says:

      Any man that rescues me from a spider or centipede is my knight in shining armour 😄

      1. June says:

        Rescue you from a centipede?! Narc affair, those are totally harmless! 😀

      2. Mary says:

        I’m right there with you Narc Affair.

        And June, centipedes may be harmless, but those fuckers are creepy.

      3. Narc affair says:

        June…id touch a snake before a centpede! Their evil!!! All those legs eekkk! 🤤🤤🤤😨

      4. June says:

        Mary and Narc affair: Aww, I always found the feeling of all the tiny legs walking on me kind of relaxing. 😀 It’s so tingly!

        (imagines everyone’s looks) What? It’s the only kind of touching I actually DO enjoy. So shut up. 🙂

        Huh. I wonder if that tingly, relaxing sensation is what most people feel when a person touches them.

      5. Narc affair says:

        June…im an animal lover but centipedes are my phobia 😵. Im glad you enjoy them tho.

      6. Sarah says:

        I Totally hate centipedes and the weird thing is that both times I moved in with a narc ex, there would be a huge one on a wall somewhere in the new appartment… coincidence much? Never saw them again after kiling it but omg

  22. Carol M says:

    A knife in my heart
    A punch in my gut
    A jump off a cliff
    Being pushed out of a moving car
    Being scraped off the road
    Put me back
    So you can do it again
    A trick not a treat
    Everyone is a trick
    I am not sugar and spice and everything nice
    It’s all a snare and a delusion

  23. Laura says:

    I fell into this trap ONCE. Never again…

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