What Happens When You Accuse The Lesser Narcissist?




The issue about the state of awareness of our kind is a central piece of the puzzle. Victims struggle with the proposition that someone behaves in such a way as we do yet does not see what they are doing. How can he not realise what he is doing? How can he not see that he is wrong? How can he not accept that I am right, I have the evidence in my hands? How can he not grasp that it is him and not me that is causing the problems? How can he not recognise that he is being selfish, hurtful or abusive? How can someone not know that they are behaving in this manner? I daresay you have said one or more of those questions at some point. Our awareness of what we are also dovetails with your awareness of what we are. As I have pointed out previously, next to nobody spots our kind when we first entangle with you. Even if you have been ensnared by one of our kind already, you stand a good chance of being ensnared a second time. Often the realisation as to what has happened to you may not take place for many years after the event or once the discard has taken place. You may realise that you have been entangled by a narcissist during the devaluation or more likely when we return looking to effect a post-discard/escape hoover. Almost without exception, once you have realised who you have become entangled with you have the overwhelming desire to tell us that you know what we are. It is a moment of triumph surely? You have been advised by an outside influence and/or you have read extensively and so many of our behaviours match with that of the narcissist. You have had your “aha” moment and whilst your head may still be swimming from the experience, your heart pulled all over the place and so many questions remained unanswered, you now know what we are. You have the knowledge and you are going to unmask us by telling us straight that you know and you are going to tell us direct what we are. It is time for you to strike a long overdue blow back at us. Thus, armed with this knowledge, what can you expect to happen? As you would expect, the response of the narcissist depends on which type you have become involved with. Let us begin with the Lesser Narcissist.

The Lesser does not know what he is. He acts through instinct, reaction and knee-jerk responses. If you tell a Lesser that he is a narcissist, chances are he may not even understand what you mean. If you have expressed this knowledge in a fuel free fashion, if he does not understand what one is you would most likely be met with the ignition of his fury and comments such as

“Why are using fancy words all of a sudden?”

“What are you using dictionary words for? Are you trying to make out that you are better than me?”

His inability to understand what you mean will be perceived by him as a criticism of him. He will feel wounded and thus his fury will be ignited. Lacking much in the way of control he will lash out at you as he instinctively seeks fuel for the purpose of healing his wound. He does not know that this is what is happening, nor does he understand his reaction, but this is what will happen. If you happen to have gained your awareness from a book and you use that to justify the label expect that book to be torn in half or thrown on a fire as knee-jerk response.

If the Lesser has some understanding of what a narcissist is, he will again only see it as criticism. Like many he will consider the label to only mean that he loves himself. You can expect responses such as: –

“Are you saying I love myself? Huh, guess I have to because you don’t anymore do you?”

“I love myself. You have some cheek. Have you seen the way you go on, preening yourself and swanning around?”

The Lesser will immediately deflect this perceived criticism by turning the position around and engaging in blame-shifting against you. He will seize on any evidence to hand which shows that you are the self-love and not him. If you have recently bought some new clothing, you can expect that to be brought up and you challenged for your spending habits. Said clothing is likely to be ripped or thrown away. If you have a range of potions and lotions which you use as part of your beauty regime, they will be seized on as evidence that you love yourself. They will be thrown around the room as the fury ignites, poured down the sink or smashed up.

The Lesser will not and cannot accept that he is a narcissist. He does not know what he is and therefore has no awareness. If you attempt to “educate him” by explaining the various traits and behaviours of narcissism and link it to the way he behaves, if you do this in a neutral fashion you will be heaping more criticism on him. Every point you made will be met with deflection and denial.

If you say,

“Look, I am just trying to get you to see that when you go out and disappear drinking before coming home and demanding sex, you are not showing any thought for me and ignoring my boundaries, that is the behaviour of a narcissist.”

You will be met with,

“Oh so now I am not allowed to go out drinking am I?”

“I don’t demand sex, you never give me any as it is and anyway you should, what’s got into you these days? Getting it somewhere else are we?”

“Boundaries? Narcissist? Who has been filling you head with this shit? I bet it was Lucy wasn’t it, she has never liked me.”

As the ignited fury erupts you will witness the paranoia, blame-shifting, denial, projection and deflection as the Lesser avoids discussing the issue. It does not register with him at all. No matter how obvious it may seem to you, he cannot grasp that he can be at any fault. It may be plain as day to you, the narcissistic behaviour matches exactly with what he does, but for all your explaining he will not accept it. Firstly, he will not do so because he does not know what he is, therefore he lacks the capacity to accept it. Secondly, even if he could he will not because of the defence mechanism that we have, namely that we are not accountable.

The denial and deflection will continue until you show signs of exasperation, upset or anger. When this fuel appears, this will assist the Lesser in healing the wounds he has and therefore he will, instinctively, be looking to push you to providing him with fuel through his responses. If your questioning persists and is done in a neutral manner, he will be forced to lash out (of course you will be blamed for his) which will result in verbal violence, destruction of property and physical violence as well. The Lesser’s paranoia will convince him that you are trying to catch him out in a way which he does not understand (nor can he) and all he knows is that he feels a sense of considerable discomfort. He does not know that this is caused by the failure to provide fuel and the wounding caused by your repeated criticisms. He will instinctively need to protect himself and this means getting fuel. He needs to head off your “oh so clever” comments – hence the denial and deflection, but he cannot control the ignited fury which ignites in order to seek the necessary fuel.

If you persist with pointing out what he is and there is no fuel provision he will evade you as he goes in search of fuel from someone else and in order to get away from the source of his annoyance.

A Lesser is unlikely to accuse you of being a narcissist because he has no real understanding of what you are referring to. What he will do however is throw back at you the constituent parts which you identify as narcissistic behaviours, at you. This is to defend himself from the criticism attached with this. This is to defend himself because he cannot be accountable for any kind of failure or weakness. This is done as a reaction to try and cause you to react to these allegations so you give fuel. You end up justifying that you are not the narcissist, thus he is (through instinct rather than calculated design) able to halt the wounding attack from you and gain fuel into the bargain as you protect about how you do not love yourself, that you care about him and other people, that you recognise boundaries and so forth.

You will never ever convince a Lesser Narcissist that he is one. He just cannot comprehend it. That is why although his behaviours match those of our kind, he cannot see it. He no insight whatsoever. All you will do is cause him to defend himself, have his fury ignited and ultimately cause him to lash out at you. Do not waste your time trying to convince him. You will not. If you want to wound him, tell him, but then withdraw otherwise you will find yourself on the receiving end of some savage ignited fury.

50 thoughts on “What Happens When You Accuse The Lesser Narcissist?

  1. Lucy says:

    HG have you written about how the MR reacts?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I have – see ‘No! You Are the Narcissist – Part Two’

  2. Just Me says:


    I agree. Asshole is a universal term and well understood, unlike narcissist. Easier to spell too.

    I think there are many fathers like your Dad who you apparently respect but seem wishing to have been closer with.

    1. Mona says:

      Just Me, my father was a real good one. He is to respect. But that lack of closeness made me susceptible for the love bombing of the narc. That is no allegation against my father. It is only an assessment. It was an unlucky combination of different reasons why I fell in love with that caricature of a man.

  3. Just Me says:

    Yes, guilty of taking up air. Funny if it weren’t true. I am such a bitch I even said good morning and asked how his day was.

    Married for decades to a Greater… paranoia was present. I must admit, I had a little fun with it. You know, little things like shrinking all his pants so he thought he was gaining weight.

    1. Diva says:

      Hi Just Me…..”You know, little things like shrinking all his pants so he thought he was gaining weight.”………….I have a feeling you and I would get along mighty fine!!!!! That comment brought a smirk to my face!!!! When I lived with my alcoholic narc I used to find bottles of vodka hidden around the house……in drawers, the cupboard under the stairs, behind the bath panel, behind the chest freezer…..even though he assured me he was not drinking. I used to find them, say nothing, empty the contents down the sink and then fill them up with tap water, then put them back!!!………Diva

      1. Windstorm2 says:

        I didn’t realize yours was an alcoholic. So is my exhusband.

        1. Diva says:

          Hi Windstorm2….mine died because of his drink problem. I stayed with him even though my head told me to leave many a time. At that time….I just couldn’t do it, there was no way I could have lived with myself if I had walked out and then something had of happened to him….which it eventually did! I was much younger then and I had no idea he was a narc until very recently after reading this blog…….Diva

  4. Cathrine says:

    I’m struggling a bit too with being able to assign a school to my ex. By all means he would be a Lesser. I never got the feeling that he had any awareness of what he was. He could act in an awful way, still thinking that he was the good guy in this evil world, never ever reflecting on this notion, and I was always left with absolute exasperation wondering how the hell someone could act that bad without realising it. He was paranoid and accused me of some really crazy things that got me thinking he needed professional help and his fury wasn’t a difficult thing to ignite. And the one time he lost his temper and physically abused me was when I actually for once kept my cool and didn’t give him any fuel whatsoever. But then I don’t know because he did seem to think, in his world of being the good guy, that he was entitled to treat people he thought had betrayed him very badly, and from there on it was certainly a conscious act. So maybe a Mid Ranger anyway..

  5. Mona says:

    Just Me, I do believe the main problem is their lack of conscience. Even my father who seemed to have only very shallow feelings of all kind (he was a over-rational person without strong emotions) was a good guy. with a strong need for justice and has had a strong conscience. He did not feel very much, but he was good and wanted to be a good and valuable person. He could not feel love or show love , nor did he hate or manipulate. Only a man without feelings and someone who liked logic.

    1. Tappan Zee says:

      WS2—which two states do you still need to visit? cool goal.

      1. Windstorm2 says:

        Tappan Zee
        Alaska and Rhode Island. My middle son has promised to go with me to Alaska since it’s been on my bucket list since I was a child (he went with me to Hawaii last year). One of my narc friends lives in NY. She said she’d fly to Providence to meet me, but I hate spending so much money just to see Rhode Island. But a goal is a goal. Bad planning to have missed it when I went thru New England in previous years 🙁

  6. Mona says:

    Just Me, for me it is the opposite: “It`s easier and more helpful, to just call them assholes and be done.”

  7. Just Me says:

    My understanding, based on HG’s work, is that it all comes down to awareness… just as it all comes down to fuel. Determining another’s level of consciousness, however, is a subjective task. That is where my frustration lies. It’s easier, but less helpful, to just call them assholes and be done.

  8. Mona says:

    Please do not care about all my spelling and grammatical mistakes. I should take some lessons.

  9. Mona says:

    I saw a sign of awareness even by a lesser one. He has a lack of intelligence, knows it and is therefore angry (my opinion). He told me that he can`t help if something does not work like he wants he feels anger or better more than anger. If something is not perfect the way he wants it, he feels unsatisfied. He recognised that this thoughts are not normal compared to all the other ones he knows. I let him talk about it, said nothing to his “special confession”, because I know he will not change and it was a short moment of awareness which will be denied a few seconds later. I do not know why he confessed that in front of me. I have nothing to do with him in private and I do not care for him. I have to deal with him at work. Red flag – now I know that I have to avoid confrontations with him. It is only a question of time until his behaviour will cause him great trouble (Age 20/23). I saw signs of losing control.
    If you are a violent person, a more emotional sadistic/manipulating person or only a selfish manipulating person these are all different traits of all kinds of narcissists. And they all have a little light bulb inside of them who shows them from time to time, what they are. This is my opinion.

  10. Just Me says:

    I think they all have the potential for violence when their control is threatened.

    1. Tappan Zee says:

      JM—criticized (perceived like when we breathe in. or exhale.) you know. our vile behavior. yes. hot lava molten violence potential.

  11. Diva says:

    After reading this I am starting to think that the man I have been stating as definitely Mid Range may well be a Lesser…….how do I differentiate between an Upper Lesser and a Lower Mid Range narc??? I noticed traits of paranoia in this man…..is this just a Lesser trait or could a Mid Range suffer paranoia too?????…….Diva

    1. Windstorm2 says:

      I’d think everyone could feel paranoid at times. I think I’d go more by could he control his violence or not.

      1. Diva says:

        Hi Windstorm2 and Just Me……maybe my question will be answered when HG gives his synopsis on Harvey Weinstein…….because I too struggled with the fact that he was violent, like a Lesser, yet also had strong Mid Range traits….in my opinion!!!….Even if I knew for sure he was a Mid Range or a Lesser, I still do not know how to apply knowledge to then substantiate if they are a Lower, Mid or Upper…… Diva

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          Well this is probably just the blind leading the blind….but I go by do they seem to have some traits of the higher category? Also it seems that if we misjudge (based on HGs later comments) we almost always think they’re in a higher category than they are. Using that logic and what you’ve said about your narc, I’d say he’s probably an ultra lesser.

          Ha, ha! Reminds me of when all teachers in Kentucky had to chip in to grade students portfolio papers! They were either Novice, Apprentice, Proficient or Dintinguished. We had a checklist of distinguishing features and had to compare each paper to a a chart of features of each type. The distinguishing features higher up on the list for each category were considered more determinative. This seems a lot the same.

          HG, maybe you could make us a chart like this of the primary distinguishing features of each type of narc so we can more accurately rate ours!

          1. HG Tudor says:

            There are works in the pipeline with regard to the various schools of narcissist along these lines.

          2. Windstorm2 says:

            I look forward to them! I’ll make a hard copy “narc identifier” chart.

          3. Diva says:

            Hi Windstorm2……I definitely need a “Narc Chart”……..the only thing that personally concerns me about it, is that once I tick off the types I have personally known, I will feel compelled to find the others that I have not……it’s that fear of missing out syndrome!!! You know….. ALL or NOTHING!!!!! (I think I am joking…..but I am not too sure……I have a completion quirk)…..Diva

          4. Windstorm2 says:

            Oh I understand. I have it too. Like wanting to visit all 50 states (still lack 2), see every bird native to an area, collect every hardness of mineral, every type of gemstone…. I went on a vacation once with my daughter where I wanted to be in a totally different environment every time we camped (on a beach, on a mountain, on a lava field, in a desert, in a rainforest, etc.). I well understand the joy of ticking off those boxes and feeling like you have completed a quest. ✅ 😊

          5. Diva says:

            Hi Windstorm2….I nearly didn’t post that…..I wasn’t sure anyone would understand it….but you clearly do……yet despite my quirk of ticking boxes on a mission to completion …….in a personal capacity I tick very few boxes myself!!!!!!……Diva

          6. Windstorm2 says:

            I understand that feeling too – nearly not posting something because you’re afraid no one will understand. Resist it! That’s another great thing about this blog! Someone will understand. All those ways we’re afraid we’re different than everyone else – resist them! So many of them are connected to why narcissists target us, so while they may not make sense to other people, people here will understand.

          7. Diva says:

            Hi Windstorm2….Ha Ha…….I hope you don’t regret that comment if I let myself loose. I keep myself on a tight rein…..although most people are oblivious to that fact!!!!!!……..Diva

          8. Windstorm2 says:

            I don’t have regrets, since all experiences teach me something. There’s no better place to let loose than here, since you never have to actually meet/live/work with any of us. 😄

          9. Diva says:

            Hi Windstorm2…..you may well have a point……I didn’t know him long enough for the mask to completely slip……he could well have been keeping the Lesser temper in check as it was early days……I do remember one occasion when I said something funny (well I thought it was) but it was a bit of a jibe (you know what I am like!!) and he seemed to blow it all out of proportion. I remember saying “Jeez…..I know how to push your buttons…..” I have said far worse on here and no one has reacted in such a manner……(well apart from HG.). I realise now that I have known many narcs, but the constant silent treatment with this one was off the scale, hence I thought Mid Range……Diva

          10. Windstorm2 says:

            You may be right about him. That’s why I think my Moron is midrange. His main reaction is withdrawing and silent treatments. He is uber-sensitive also. I can’t hardly talk to him without him feeling criticized. If I talk to him like I do my Kentucky narcs, he sulls up like a spoiled little girl.

            He likes to think he’s superior to my other narcs and that he’d dominate them, that they’re just “macho American cowboy-types.” If he ever did really meet them, they’d eat him for breakfast – unless they died laughing first!

          11. Diva says:

            Hi Windstorm2…..We could be chatting about the same man! Whatever type you have on your hands……I had the same type…….Those types are never going to work with me…….although they may not be too violent…..I have a feeling that they could bring out the worst in me over time!!!! I wouldn’t trust myself to be around one for too long!!!! I could think of several ways to break a silence!!!! Thankfully, as the so called Golden Period was nothing short of a poor performance, I didn’t get too addicted….although I did get addicted, within minutes…..but it was easier to push that off switch with the help of this blog and it’s readers….and HG! When I look back, it amazes me that I even fell for this man at all, he was not great looking, definitely not my type in any way shape or form…..I feel as if I was drugged into it (although I most definitely wasn’t……it was in broad daylight without a drop of alcohol either!) ……and this is why I must never put myself back in his path…..I don’t know how he managed it before, it unnerves me and I know he could do it again, given the opportunity…….Diva

          12. Windstorm2 says:

            Ours was solely a long distance relationship. I triggered my devaluation after just a month by asking if I could come visit him in Munich. He refused to answer and would get horribly angry whenever I would ask that. Of course that had everyone here saying, “Oh, he’s married, he’s married!” Which from the beginning I never agreed with and still don’t. He’s just too crazy and f**ked up to be able to live with a woman. I recognized that from the start.

            He just doesn’t/won’t do anything to make him worth the effort. He thinks he’s terrific at sex and all women find him irresistible. I can’t believe it. He couldn’t even do sexting without blowing up in a rage because I wasn’t responding correctly. It was like he had a script in his mind of how it was all supposed to go, but I didn’t know my lines. Every time I turned around I was wounding him with my “constant criticism” which translated as “any question I asked.”

          13. Diva says:

            Windstorm2…….”He couldn’t even do sexting without blowing up in a rage because I wasn’t responding correctly. It was like he had a script in his mind of how it was all supposed to go, but I didn’t know my lines.”……..This has to be the funniest thing I have read on this blog……I am sorry for laughing but this tickles me no end……I will be sure to ask the next narc “what’s the script” before I get going!!!!!……….Diva

          14. Windstorm2 says:

            Glad you got a laugh! It sure wasn’t funny at the time. How on earth am I supposed to know how to respond to a man saying he would lick parts of my anatomy, when no one else had ever even touched them before? I had no clue what it would even feel like! I was completely out of my depth. Obviously so was he.

          15. Diva says:

            Windstorm2……It’s gone beyond mere laughing now that I have read the second instalment!!!…….you should have just googled it……that’s what I do!!!!…..Or failing that.. just text…..”Sorry, I have to go…..I smell smoke….I think there’s a fire!!!!!!!……..That one pretty much gets you out of any phone or text situation that you can’t handle!!!!! .Diva

          16. Windstorm2 says:

            Unfortunately your advice would not have helped. I have an internal defect that makes me incapable of outright lying. I can not tell the truth, but I can not lie. (I can hear you laughing). Also my internet is so slow, I can not google if I’m texting.

            Even still – how would googling let me know what it would actually feel like? Just knowing the appropriate response would be meaningless since I can not lie and I literally felt nothing but confusion. And boy I learned quickly, asking him questions was worse than just staying totally quiet!

            I’ve decided sexting and phone sex must only work if you’ve had good sexual experiences in the past to remember. Otherwise it’s just meaningless words.

    2. J says:

      My Mid suffered bouts of paranoia when he was REALLY melting down.

      1. Diva says:

        J….thanks for that information…..I think mine is a Mid Range too. I just saw paranoia in basic every day life……nothing major like a meltdown. One example (and there were many others) I asked him to sit at my computer to look at an article or a photo…..and he said something like…..”I hope you are not filming me here.” I would never think that if someone asked me to look at a photograph on a computer or a mobile phone…..I thought it a bit bizarre at the time but laughed it off without so much as an after thought…..until now. While I write this out, I am now getting paranoid myself that he has been filming me!!!!!……..Diva

    3. Kimi says:


      Remember you can always consult HG for a confirmation of your Narc’s school and cadre, based on the information you provide. Doing so really helped me process my Nex’s behavior and is helping me deal with my current relationships. Just a thought!

    4. K says:

      I think you have a ULN. The biggest difference between my lessers and mid-rangers is violence, control over their reactions and paranoia. Except for fury, violence and threats of violence are non-existent in my mid-rangers, including property damage. My lessers cannot control their violence, threats, temper or property destruction, also, they are VERY defensive, and paranoid. My ULN was violent “lite”; he couldn’t hold a candle to my family. Also, all of my lessers are dim-witted boobs.

      1. Diva says:

        Hi K…..Due to the fact that I escaped from this relationship in a fairly short space of time, I have a feeling I did not see the full extent of what this man may have been capable of…..he often talked about his so called temper but I didn’t really see it…..I think he managed to keep it in check with me because it was early days….but either way I suspect that he had some control over it……but I would guess not much……..Diva

      2. K says:

        If he talked about having a temper early in your short relationship, he was most likely a lesser. There is some overlap between LMRN and ULN, but I am putting my money on ULN. Defensiveness was rife in my lesser, too.

        1. Diva says:

          Hi K…..very interesting and there I was stating that I would always be safe from Lessers as I would never get involved with one!!!!! Yes he gave examples of a few acts of temper, including breaking a few things, (by accident!!!) grabbing a male friend that did not do as he had requested on a night out with the boys…..he also said something like “I hope you never see it.” He also said a previous girlfriend had said he was extremely frightening when angry. Errrrr…….as I am writing all of this down…….why did I ignore all of these red flags and the 100 others???….This one is going to be easy to ignore that’s for sure…..I just hope the feeling is mutual!!!!!………..Diva

          1. K says:

            Yup, you had yourself a lesser. Don’t feel bad just write down all the red flags. And I had no idea that your husband died from alcoholism. That must have been awful. I loved that you shrunk his pants, dumped out the vodka and replaced it with water. Very clever of you. K

          2. Windstorm2 says:

            That reminds me of a story from when my kids were small. I couldn’t ever keep alcohol in the house because my husband would drink it. So I came up with the system of buying Bacardi light and pouring it into empty water bottles and keeping them in my trunk with water for the kids (you’d have to hold a gun on my husband to get him to drink water). To keep the kids out of it, i only partly filled each bottle and told them all never to drink out of an old, partly used bottle. It would have germs and be bad for them. This worked for years until one day my daughter came in and told me, “Mom, you were right! I opened those used water bottles in the trunk and smelled them. They had all gone bad! I poured them all out!”

          3. K says:

            Your daughter is a trip. Children say and do the darndest things. Thanks for laugh!

          4. Diva says:

            Hi K….. Just Me was the pants shrinker but I was the vodka thief……Diva

          5. K says:

            Ok, got it. And if I remember correctly, you accidentally on purpose ironed a shirt too long and scorched it. Never a dull moment with you. K

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