Closure Denied



We do not do the clean break. We never allow closure. There is no neat conclusion when you have been entangled with our kind. You are not allowed the precise and final cut of the surgeon’s scalpel but instead you must be content with the rusty saw that has sought to effect an amputation but instead has merely created a grisly abomination whereby there remains tendrils attached and ragged and torn flesh. No matter how hot the water which flows in your shower and the vigour with which you scrub your reddened flesh, no matter how much detergent you apply and no matter whether you use scrubbing brush or wire wool you cannot remove that residue. We linger. We remain. We percolate and infiltrate.

This, like much of what we do, is a calculated act to maintain a connection between you and us. We can never let go so we see no reason why you should be allowed to either. The residue which we create and which you cannot remove, takes many forms. It may be the fact that we chose you when we worked together so that each day you have no choice but to see us across the floor space in the same office, in the cafeteria or striding across the car park. Once upon a time, like every good fairy tale, you smiled and you felt your heart skip a beat as you saw us exit the lift and smile at you. That wonderful smile which was just for you. Now when we exit the lift and our cold, dead eyes alight on you, the smile is no more than a sickly leer which slowly opens up across our face as we know the residue of our impact on your remains deep inside you. You are faced with this each day. It is either that or leave and go somewhere else and even though you know that the latter is probably the most appropriate cause of action, something prevents you from doing so. Is it because you still want to see us? Of course it is. You may very well hate us but you cannot still help yourself as you want to see what we are doing and allow yourself the indulgence of looking at us and remembering.

In a different way the residue may be the fact that we owe you money and you are left to contact us, despite not wishing to do so, because you want, no, because you need that money. After all, we leeched from you so successfully that we have left you in penury and you need this money to be reimbursed. Part of you would rather write it off and in doing so hope that you can scour us from your memory, but circumstance dictates the necessity of collection. We know this and we shall provide excuse and exhibit delay and prevarication in order to keep you hanging on and in order to keep the connection between us alive still. The money will be paid by the end of the week promise. Sorry but we had to have a new boiler fitted so it will be next month now. The bonus was not as large as had been promised so it will a further three months as I shall have to pay you by instalments. What money? I do not know owe you anything. We keep you dangling and pull at the connection that remains between you and I. If it is not money, then it will be possessions. We will purposefully leave our belongings in your house and you will repeatedly ask us to collect them. We issue similar excuses to the repayment of the borrowed money. I am a bit busy at the moment maybe next week. I need to collect it in a car and mine is in the garage at the moment. If the possessions are not ours at your property then we will have ensured that in addition or as an alternative we will have kept items belonging to you with us, causing you to have to keep some form of contact with us in order to recover them. We ensure we select those items which are expensive and of sentimental value so you will not be able to replace them but instead you must keep asking us for the items. We will string out the return of these items by failing to be in when you call to collect them, turning up to deliver them when you are not in, forgetting to do so and so forth. It all maintains the link between us and increases your upset, annoyance and frustration. We want to keep our residue in your life so that when we choose to make our move we can suck you back in without difficulty.

We will remain in the same circle of friends as you. With our notoriously thick skin we will still turn up to meals and drinks knowing that you will be there. You will feel uncomfortable and resent our intrusion. Third parties will try to keep the peace and of course we will maintain our façade in order to show that we are a good person and we are just trying to be civil following the ending of the relationship. You may react to this and it enables us to point out that you are unhinged, unpleasant and always have to bear a grudge. Is it any wonder that we left?

Whilst we create the ever presence so that you see us everywhere you go, in sounds, in sights and tastes, we also like to leave our mark on you, smearing you with the residue of the relationship so that you feel tainted for the rest of your life, marked with the repeated reminder that you have been embroiled in a relationship with us and moreover to let you know in the clearest terms that you will never be free of us. We can never be washed away.

28 thoughts on “Closure Denied

  1. Me says:

    Hi! I’m out and free but so much is still spinning and so many questions. I’ve read every single posting and all the books. Why do I still have this horrible CD, anxiety etc. I know he is a narc. He did it all from day one.. text book. Even hoovered me back and of course before we could talk he vanished after a injury. It’s been 6 mo since last encounter. Total NC, blocked everywhere. I’m dating a nice man but still miss the N.
    I know he is hopeless, his live sucks, deep in debt, shopaholic, lies, horrible time with the kids that have major injuries, problem with the ex before me (mother of the kids)…. why do I still want closure?
    I know we don’t get it! I know he will be back.. he asked for time since I injured him while disclosing his lies and called questioned him why he came back… hmm not to smart but I did write him a letter with many questions .. such as why are you back? Did she not like you? Not good enough for her? Didn’t she put up with the drama with the kids.. perhaps she didn’t even like the kids, is it because you can’t find someone else? Why..
    and that pissed him off, silent treatment until one day after begging .. I’m hurt, I’m wounded.. I need time. Lots of Hearts and kisses… waited but still ST, again threatened to turn up since I needed to get closure at least and try to talk about it all…. terrified Id come to his house he replied that he needs more time…. NC was in place from that day forward. He will be back .. refuse to talk.. he knows I loved him and was the best damn supply.
    Still NC… going strong but sooo many questions .. even that I know the answers. I keep reading, sticking to my new man… not a N.. extremely boring but loves and respects me. Now I know that once we experience the golden period we are so vulnerable to meet one more .. we crave that high .. like a drug addict their heroine/cocain…
    It’s absolutley terrible and I will never be the same. Craving the ex N yet know that I can not dance with the devil again. Hard Sunday for me..

    1. snarkandgrace says:

      Seems like you and I are in the same place, Me. I’ve moved on somewhat, sort of back with the person I was with before N came around this time, but still think about N all the time – wonder if he is alright, wonder what he will do next, wonder so many things. Thanks to HG’s writings, I know I will never get that closure I’d like… never be able to wish him well and know for sure he’s gone for good.
      I think it’s the “promise” of a hoover that keeps me circling the drain. Not that I want one to happen, but I feel the need to stay vigilant to avoid his inevitable attempt to make contact.It’s like the best practical joke is the promise of a practical joke because you spend all of your time trying to keep the jokester from getting one over on you and instead, you get one over on yourself because you are looking for the joke in every single thing….
      Every time my phone rings or buzzes, I brace myself. Every time a message pops up in Facebook, I cringe. Every time I get a new friend request, I go total CSI on the person and end up declining the request because I can’t be sure it isn’t him…. I dupe myself trying to keep him from getting through. Maybe that will stop soon, though. Fingers crossed for all of us! Hang in there.

      1. Me says:

        Thanks.. this is our worst nightmare. Do as I did…. go NC because the wait for him to return was terrible. I simply blocked him everywhere and it got easier. I deleted all social media apps. (It took me several tries and unblocked more times I want to admit) I still jump when others get the notification from the app we used last. It was kind a relief that I finally found to be soothing that I was for once in control. I’m not expecting a hoover since he cant unless he show up at my doorstep but since he is a coward he will not… the occasional drive by at night I know for a fact now. When the lines of communication was open he also did this. After the narc injury and the ST begun I finally told him I’m going to date and move on… a few nights later I sat relaxed in my house and suddenly I saw a car close to my house.. stopped and then drove of.. did not see for 100% it was him but I could feel it! So strange.. the overwhelming feeling he was here. And the fact that after last long ST and he came back .. he asked me where I live now.. I told him .. then he asked why not the old place? It was scary how I totally understood that he had been driving around my house to lurk .. so see if I was alone or not.
        I make lists of all the terrible things he did, the inconsistencies and all the lies. I force myself to change my patterns as soon as he pops up in my head, use a rubberband on my wrist to snap out of it.
        I know he will be back.. probably a new supply that is working out.. ha ha last one that he was high on (rich, famous and sorry not too pretty) he plastered over social media, involved the poor kids etc. did not work out. I guess he was in heaven and when she ended it (or he if she came on to him) it wounded him to the core. He came back to me like nothing ever happened. When he was inconsistent to me and starting his manipulative ways I simply injured him by questioning that failure .. so I was banned once more. Refuse to see me to talk about it, hiding in his horrible world and … I know he is once more putting me on the shelf hoping It will reset everything again.
        To his surprise this time around he can’t reach me ..I’ve stopped long time ago to chase and have no idea if he tried yet of course .. but the feeling I get he will soon. I get stronger just knowing that he can’t. So block every app you can and it does get easier. My closure is to know that I can be happy again and he … never … it’s a never ending story with the horrible cycle. He is getting older .. more problems arising and he will get very lonely. Oh.. and the few times before when I went no and blocked he was extremely upset … that I would do such a thing .. while he blocked me on his phone so many times. No self reflection at all.. it’s all about him. So NC.. does give you the power because I’ve seen the fury when he can’t hoover… so do it! Block him and get your closure while he will be hurt.
        I’m not an option anymore… but it does hurt like hell.

        1. snarkandgrace says:

          Worst nightmare, indeed! This is by far the most frustrating exercise in futility I’ve ever faced. He is blocked in every conceivable way from me. At last count, though, he has 12 Facebook profiles…. I block one; he makes another. I will, of course, continue to block them as he makes them, but my GOD how many will be make before he gets the picture and gives up? I went off Facebook for a while, but that serves his purpose to isolate me because I live alone and have very few friends close by. I was miserable when I was off Facebook, so I decided I’d just go back on and battle him there as best I could.
          I changed my phone number; he managed to get the new number. I blocked all numbers I had knowledge of and he called from new numbers… each new number was blocked as the call came in. Now he has learned to spoof numbers, so when he calls, it’s from a random number. I gave up trying to block the phone. Eventually I’ll change my number again, probably… but I know he’ll just get the number again somehow if he wants it… Like he says; If you’ve got enough money, you can do anything.
          His trolling to get directly to me really doesn’t bother me in the least anymore. I just hang up the instant I hear his voice or delete messages without reading them or listening to them… the most he gets is thought fuel. The troublesome thing is when he harasses others to try and get to me. His latest attempt is to start a rumor that I am having an affair with a married friend. He sent a message to the friend and the friend’s wife telling them he knows about everything and he just wanted to let the friend’s wife know of the affair. There is no truth to his claim, and he knows that. He expects I will leap to my friend’s defense and break NC to tell him to leave people alone, and then I’m right back in the soup. This kind of maneuver has worked in the past when he harassed my mother, a close friend, my step-daughters, and then my son. Each time, I stepped in to tell him to stop. It won’t work again. Family knows that if he reaches out to them they will have to handle things on their own – I’ve asked them not to even tell me about it because I know I will want to intervene. When friends call to ask me to talk to him so he will leave them alone, I tell them that 30 years of running interference is long enough… they’re on their own. I used to feel badly about saying that to people, but they don’t feel badly about throwing me back to the wolf to save them the frustration, so …. supernova time.
          Funny you should mention your lists. Sounds like you and I share a brain! (poor you!!) I have what he calls my “crazy girl notebooks.” I keep a journal so I can navigate the gaslighting. When he tells me something didn’t happen or tries to convince me of “his truth,” I can go back in my journals and find the actual truth and assure myself that I wasn’t imagining it. What he wouldn’t give to get those notebooks away from me… But he never will.
          Anyhoo… I’ve blathered on long enough. Bless our hearts for having to deal with this. I hope yours leaves you alone and that we both can keep our emotional thinking in check. I get all squishy when I worry about his feelings, but then I remind myself that he doesn’t have feelings the way I have feelings, and that makes me feel better. If we were in their position, we would be lonely, but they don’t know what that emotion means… to them it means find more fuel… and so they do. I’m so glad my brain doesn’t work that way!

  2. MyTrueSelf says:

    It’s over a year already.

    “Please, oh, please write and tell me why you did what you did. Please write more than just one-liner, self-pitying emails. Please tell me and make it right. Make us right again…..”

    …self imposed mantra, that grew (seemingly) all by itself.

    And I can’t help hearing it go round in my head, becoming louder, more manic until the next one-liner lands in my inbox….

    No Closure!


    I feel awful.

  3. Jenna says:

    I asked my ex narc for closure a few months ago. He agreed. I asked him many questions and he answered to the best of his ability, or he lied.

  4. Loulou says:

    HG – do you believe that the narc ever fears the empath at any time? Say when they are being exposed or the threat of being unmasked. My narc just went cold fury silent. I know that silence was punishment for being a traitor – but do they actually ‘fear’ as well? He never ever lashed out at me by words or physical- after the multiple humiliations I caused him. Do you think he was scared? Can a big strong muscle man narc be scared of a super feminine super empath? Is that why he never lashed out?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It is not the fear of you in those situations, but the fear of the consequence of certain actions. Some narcissists will experience fear – for instance fear of being shot, some of us do not.

      1. Loulou says:

        Ahh. Makes sense. Thank you. Some days I wish and pray I could be a narc. As twisted as it sounds. having no guilt and remorse would make me happy. Having feelings are good for the mother Teresa’s of the world but for the so called normals it can be a burden.

      2. Loulou says:

        Did you mean fear of consequences of being exposed or fear of consequences if he lashed out at me? Or both?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Fear of exposure, wounding, fuel loss, damage to facade.

      3. Alexissmith2016 says:

        Do you think those who lack fear including a no startle response are psychopaths ? And capable of passing a lie detector ?

        And others are narcissists ?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Psychopaths will be narcissists or narcissistic.

      4. Sophia says:

        My MMRN was a big ball of fear and anxiety. He was beat up pretty bad once and I have the feeling it was female related. Weird enough, he never changed his ways but always worried about being a victim. He’d say he didn’t want to end up on a homicide show. 🙄

  5. syroya says:

    I so love the majestis pluralis… I’d like to play with it…

    We, empaths can see right in the core of your being, like no one else can: there is a child within that needs fostering, caring and unconditional love. That is why you chose us.
    We are the only ones who know. We are the only ones to recognize your deep strength within. We recognize you because of your strength. We know you never learned how to receive unconditional love nor how to accept it. Yet we, empaths, know that in essence you are worthy of it. You are worthy of it. Every cell in you is worthy of it.
    Truly we are the only ones to recognize your worth. That’s why you are attracted to us, that’s why you despise us. That is why you, ultimately, fear us. That’s why you come back to us. You know it’s there, but you dare not truly unwrap the parcel, because you feel you are not worthy of it. But you are. You are worthy of it.
    Should we, empaths, unwrap the parcel, you would have to shine. And that scares the shit out of you. Rise and shine? We know you are holding yourselves back and we see no reason, because we see the beauty within. We’ve found the diamond that you are unaware of.
    We know. But you will never really believe us. You will continue games that demeanor you. Until we opt out. But you’ll be coming back at us, because we saw your worth.
    We know. All you do is killing the possibilities in you. We know. We are your encouragement. And that’s why we frighten you.
    Our unconditional love is all you ever wantend, but you dear not show it to us, because you hate it when your facade breaks down. That’s why you never get to know us. We. Are. Strength.

    1. Sophia says:


      I used to believe that’s the way they saw it. Have you ever noticed that people have different thresholds for physical pain or temperature?

      It seems as though people have different thresholds for Love. There is a neurological disorder that takes away ones ability to feel heat and it’s very dangerous.

      Entertain the idea that it’s possible that you are dealing with a person that doesn’t feel love or it’s absence. At the very least doesn’t have the same capacity for love as you do.

      It’s hard to fathom not feeling love or wanting to give it. It’s actually a basic human need. It’s just as hard to imagine running a scalding hot bath and not being able to feel the need to jump out because the water is too hot to handle.

      Give yourself that unconditional love. Give it to someone that truly appreciates and reciprocates it. 🤗

      1. syroya says:

        Thank you Sophia,

        I was just mourning away my love and my lack of self-love. Trying to see it through the eyes of power. And that was a helpful exercise.

        Because, you know, we DO have a lot of power. That’s why we are targeted. Because we are powerful, we need to be diminished. We just don’t exercise our power enough for ourselves. That’s where the Narc comes is. And teaches us how to fully demonstrate our power for ourselves.

        There he thinks he’ll win, there’s where we feel he lost it.
        And now we grab it.


      2. Nuit Étoilée says:


        This is exactly how I feel – beautifully written.

        Sophia, even if they are unaware – the need is still there.

        My heart aches knowing I have so much love to give, but it isn’t received… and yes, you’re right.. I need to heal myself..

        Thank you wonderful ladies!

    2. Narc Angel says:


      That might all be true, but fat lot of good it is for us to see it and keep trying to apply it to someone who is not buying it. Better for us to dismount our high horse of rescue and concentrate all of that wisdom into living OUR best lives. We should be looking for a partner not a project.

  6. Catherine says:

    I’m still relatively fresh out of my relationship and I have the hardest time ever with the notion of never getting any closure. I do know I will never ever get any heartfelt apologies of course, and I’ve even accepted he won’t return my keys, but all the left out explanations and answers hurt the must. And the fact that he didn’t even admit to, or agree to, us being over. I guess what I’m provided with here though, reading all the useful articles, is the kind of closure he’ll never give me.

    1. Bubbles says:

      Dear Catherine,
      I’m so sorry to read of your recent discard. Its really hard to wrap ones head around no closure, no explanation, zilcho, no nothing.
      I believe they just don’t care about anyone, except themselves of course . This is their game and that’s all it is, ever was, or going to be …. it’s always about them.
      They do what they want, when they want and with whom they want. They barrel down the highway, knocking over everything in their path without a care in the world.
      They may as well be a rubber doll, because that’s about as much you get out of them, absolutely nothing. I’ve had my whole life full of narcissists and got nothing but lies, hurt, disappointment, abuse and pain.
      Unfortunately, I’ve found, if you expect nothing, then you won’t be disappointed. Im trying to rule with my head and not my emotions, as hard as that is. Totems rule, GOSO ! Thanks Mr Tudor!
      Heartfelt wishes to you

      1. Catherine says:

        Thank you so much Blank! It’s really hard coming to terms with an abusive relationship, and with no closure it’s a complete nightmare. But I’m getting to a better place a step at a time. In my case it all exploded into physical violence and since then I haven’t seen him. But almost six months have passed and I’m getting stronger by the day. This blog, HG, you and all the other amazing women and men here make all the difference.

      2. Catherine says:

        Sorry Bubbles, I read the wrong name. Thank you Bubbles!

    2. Bubbles says:

      Dear Catherine,
      Thank you for your reply. Sorry to learn it turned abusive. Dealing with any narcissist is a nightmare and more. Never go back!
      I’ve found there are truly lovely and amazing people on Mr Tudor’s blog. The support is enormous. It feels like a warm family with all the regulars. What you learn and the support you receive is overwhelming. You’re in the right place Catherine, hang in there sweet pea and continue to stay strong. We all look forward to more of your feedback and comments.💜

    3. Narc Angel says:


      Not to mention that what you will get here is the TRUTH. You will never get that from him no matter what apologies, explanations, and answers he would offer you. He will also never agree to it being over because in his mind it isnt and never will be.

  7. Overthinker says:

    I guess this is why he never said I divorce you three times which is how an Islamic divorce takes place, but I’m pretty sure there’s some clause that after a certain number of menstrual periods pass without living together then we are divorced, so in this case we are definitely divorced ,lol

  8. Star says:

    I was rereading your book Exorcism last night HG, and this time around something really stuck a cord with me. The closure denied,the Ever Presence, leaves the victims with questions and wanting answers . I realized in the past ( long ago) when I found it impossible to not break contact, it wasn’t HIM that I was pining for or wanting. It was explanations! It was wanting to keep that contact in hopes of eventually getting answers from him… which of course, one truly never does get….

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Correct and you are bolstering your logic by realising this.

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