The Greater Narcissist



This is a Greater Narcissist. There is much to write about the Greater, but for now, a snapshot shall have to suffice. We have met Lee the Lesser and Malcolm the Mid-Ranger. There are lots of Lees and Malcolms. Lots of them. In fact most people who have ascertained that they have been ensnared by a narcissist will have entangled with either a Lee or a Malcolm. This is Greg, Greg the Greater, a rare beast indeed.

“Hello, what was that?” asks Greg.

“Hello Greg, I was just explaining that you are a rare beast indeed.”

“Oh completely, how good of you to notice and may I say just how delightful you look today, you have done something different with your hair haven’t you, it really suits.”

I cannot help but smile and look pleased at this remark. I know I shouldn’t but this is the problem with the Greater, they are ever so charming and before you know what has happened one has given them some fuel, told them something they wanted to hear or agreed to do what they want.

The Greater exhibits considerable charm. Charm is one of his prevalent weapons. With the Lesser it is raw aggression, with the Mid-Ranger it is the ability to draw sympathy, but with the Greater he uses charm to achieve what he wants.

His charm manifests in many ways. Courteous, polite, amusing, well-read, urbane, complimentary and attentive. But this charm is a combination of considerable intelligence, confidence and planning. Out of all of the three schools of narcissist, the Greater knows the benefit of planning and scheming. He is always gathering information, storing it away, logging it for later or immediate use.

“You are the master at gathering information aren’t you Greg?”

“How very kind of you to say so and I cannot deny that,” he responds with that slow and engaging smile of his. See how he holds my gaze, boring deep inside of me? Of course he is just reflecting back at me what I want to see, after all, he is an expert in the art of seduction. He is an expert in most things, he has to be, the world cannot be afforded any glimpse of weakness, any hint of the loss of his control. He must project an image of success at all times.

Greg knows that the foundation of his success lies in planning and preparation.

“Greg, what is your view about preparation?” I ask.

“Every battle is won before it is ever fought,” he responds in a matter of fact. He is deadly serious. To him, every engagement in his life is a form of battle. Every person he interacts with, every situation he faces, every scenario he is engaged in – all of them are battles and he has to win every one. Even if he appears to lose, he will have allowed that to happen for the sake of a future win.

Greg knows that to forge his rightful and entitle path through life he must secure these victories and win. He does so by ensuring he knows his enemy. Everybody qualifies to be an enemy because the Greater knows that the world is against him and if he gives any quarter, this cruel and heartless world will seek to topple him. He may be a Greater but the wariness and paranoia applicable to all narcissists is just as applicable to him. Greg understands that he has to know who he is dealing with and this means gathering intelligence.

By the way, than unflinching stare has remained focussed on me. The attention from this handsome individual is both unnerving yet oddly engaging. He uses his eyes a lot. Do not think however that when he is staring at you, mirroring your own desires, so you become trapped like a deer in the headlights that this is all he is doing. No, not at all. He is evaluating, considering his next move, what to say next, gauging how I will respond. The Greater’s mind is always whirring, thinking about the next move, ascertaining how to seize the most appropriate advantage. Normal people would find it exhausting but not the Greater for he, among all of the narcissistic brethren has the greater energy levels. This of course means he has the highest demands for fuel but he is also the most effective at gathering this fuel. This effectiveness manifests in two ways. The first is the methodology applied and the second is the range of appliances at his disposal.

The Greater has the widest range of manipulations at his disposal. He is well-practised and able to match, with considerable accuracy, the best forms of manipulation to his victims. Of course he relies on understanding his appliances, knowing what they like and dislike in detail and achieves this through extensive information gathering through his own questions, the use of Lieutenants, conducting background searches and so on. He has had many victims and therefore knows how certain types of person are likely to respond to certain manipulations. Admittedly, he will not get is right every single time, but his error rate is very low indeed. His effectiveness is heightened through how driven he is. He must succeed, be the best, be the sparkling diamond at the centre of the crown. Leader in his field. Champion. Conqueror.

Like a master artisan, he selects only the finest materials (victims) on which to work and then he applies his deft touch through carried manipulations from his Devil’s Toolkit. All of this is done enveloped in charm. He has people do things because they want his praise, his approval, his largesse, his friendship and is love.

The Greater also has extensive fuel networks on which he relies. Unlike the Lesser who has a narrow fuel base or the Mid-Ranger who has a wider one with numerous appliances, the Greater has an extensive and impressive network. Let’s find our more from Greg.

“Hey Greg, who is warming your bed at present?”

“Why are you interested?” he asks as he places a hand gentle on my arm.

“Oh this is professional purposes only, “ I respond trying to rebuff him, but the hand remains unmoved. He is confident and assured.

“I am ever the professional.”

“I am sure that is the case, but tell me, who is on the arm of Greg?”

“I have a girlfriend at present.”

“Just the one?”

“Yes, but there are others, certain ladies who know me well who I can call on if I need to.”

Those are his intimate partner secondary sources, his friends with benefits and booty calls.

“How many?”

“Four,” he replies without hesitation.

“What about your friends?”

“I have six guys I regularly knock around with, plus two good female friends.”

Those are his inner circle.

“Then maybe another twenty or so people I know well through golf, football, the pub, you know, I see them every so often.”

Those are his outer circle. More secondary appliances.

“What about work and family Greg?”

“Well I head up a department at work so I have a team of eight working for me and I am on good terms with the other directors.”

More secondary sources there through colleagues.

I let him continue as he explains how he is well regarded by his family (more secondary sources), his neighbours, people in his community, the people he knows through a charity he is a trustee of (lots of tertiary sources). His network of fuel appliances is vast and he can rely on it regularly to ensure that his considerable fuel needs are catered for. It is rare to find a Greater running short of fuel.

The Greater knows what he is. His higher cognitive function allows him an awareness. He may know that he is a narcissist, since it has been pointed out to him and his increased cognitive function means he can understand and relate to it. Of course, he knows not to admit this to anybody, unless he sees a distinct advantage in doing so. In some instances he may not know that he is a narcissist but he certainly knows that he is different from other people. He knows he is special, talented and destined for continued greatness. He knows that it is necessary for him to control his environment and people, for if he does not do so, he feels weakness gnawing at him, unease and the threat of the loss of his superiority. He knows that he must maintain this edifice that he has built and this is done through having people react to him. He may not know it as fuel, but he knows how important it is for people to respond to him. He knows he must receive admiration and anger, love and loathing, adoration and abhorrence. These power him and allow him to achieve the things he knows he is entitled to. He recognises he does wrong, but does not care. He knows he has no conscience, no sense of guilt, he knows he has a reduced emotional repertoire because from years of observing and listening – as opposed to just doing as the Lesser and Mid-Ranger does – he has learned what he does not feel, not that it concerns him in any way.

Greg knows that charm, manipulation and persuasion are they key attributes to staying number one and having people do as he wants. He wants to own people, make them his, subsume them into him and he understands why this must happen, because it makes him all the more powerful, all the more effective and all the more able to keep his creature locked away and never heard. Greg knows that his Machiavellian nature, his duplicitous nature and slavish devotion to the doctrine of the ends always justifying the means, results in him staying on top of the pile. He is proud of his orchestrations, his status as Supreme Puppet Master. He knows that people are there to do his bidding, to be moved where he wants them to go, to carry out his wishes and best of all, they often do not even realise that they are doing it.

Of course, Greg is no fool and understands that when the velvety caress of his subtle manipulations is not working, then the iron fist must be deployed. He has no reluctance to dole out his innate wickedness. He will ensure that this is either done through a proxy or if it must be by his hand, then he will reduce the risk of retribution and consequence to him. He evaluates. When that apparently loving gaze becomes the inky dark stare of malice, the whirring mind is plotting to ensure a most malevolent outcome for those that cross him. Whilst the Lesser and the Mid-Ranger will act with malice, theirs is nothing to the concentrated vitriol that the Greater possesses and will unleash when he deems it appropriate. This is another factor which sets him apart from his brethren ; the sheer evil that he is capable of and that will be readily applied in order to preserve his position.

The Greater will pursue for longer, hoover harder, use more energy, charm more fiercely, devalue with scathing intensity and channelling the vast amount of fuel he can draw on from the extensive fuel network, this powers this effective machine as he achieves his machinations. The Greater calculates the impact of his words, either to seduce or to devalue. He assesses the likely responses of those he wishes to control and the likely benefit for him. For him there can be no end, the games must always continue and he must always be wining and be seen to be winning.

The Greater may often be hard to detect because he is most capable of exhibiting cognitive empathy. He has studied and knows how to mimic with considerable conviction, but this is not a perfected art. He will be prone to those pauses when he is ascertaining his best response and that sudden frozen look will appear, albeit momentarily. The Greater is also hard to detect because he will engage in what appear to be good works. The Lesser is self-centred in a brutal and demanding manner, the Mid-Ranger is self-centred in a sulky, feel-sorry-for-me style but the Greater, well the Greater will show generosity, be charitable and appear to exhibit kindness. He will hold positions of authority, trust and responsibility. They are put part of the carefully constructed façade on which he relies more than any other type of narcissist. He builds this façade, cements it and uses it repeatedly. His apparent good works are but a veneer of respectability which are either:-


1.      Committed because there will be a distinct gain arising from this act in due course – for example, lending someone money to then have them repay him through actions and loyalty ; or

2.      Part of furnishing the façade and thus a worthy sacrifice for the maintenance of this artifice.

Be in no doubt that this apparent sugary surface coats a venal and vicious individual who will never stop in the pursuit of victory. Cruel, perverse and utterly self-serving, behind that engaging smile and warm handshake is a cold and calculating mind.

Of course Greg would never admit to any weakness, unless as usual, he saw an advantage in doing so, but he has them. Like all of his kind he hates criticism. It burns and wounds and he uses his considerable control to keep his fury under control. Furthermore, the innate confidence and superiority that Greg has means that an objective observer will regard him as not necessarily appreciating certain risks to the extent that he might. Naturally, Greg would reject such a suggestion as failing to understand, however, there is an over-confidence which exists, which might, not always, but might lead to occasional difficulties for Greg the Greater, although of course he is equipped to address those difficulties using his customary charm, malice and manipulation.

56 thoughts on “The Greater Narcissist

  1. Greg says:

    HG one of my friends started his own company and is very charming. Does that mean he is most likely a greater? He seems too charming to be a midranger and he isn’t actually successful.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Those factors in themselves do not mean he is a narcissist of any description.

  2. littlebit says:

    His Groupies

    The moth cannot perceive the danger
    inherent in flirting with a flickering flame,
    is not complicit in its own destruction.
    We acolytes kneeling before our dark lord
    know his touch would burn with fire and ice,
    yet still we empaths flitter our wings prettily
    secretly hoping to be caught and pinned by him.
    Our narcissist patch is dangerously addictive,
    charming, witty, complex, hypnotic voice soothing
    while he prepares his instruments of torture
    with a smile. Beware Lord H.G. the Greater.

  3. Iris says:

    Can greaters also have manic episodes like a bipolar person has? When they’ve received so much fuel that they sort of overload?

    I mean, I know greaters are know to be cool as a cucumber, but can they also behave in a ADHD-like manner for a short period of time?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      A massive amount of fuel would cause any narcissist to be “fizzing” with power as a consequence of this massive provision.

  4. Deepsigh says:

    Don’t know what the hell he was! But I remember some frozen looks….like as if he were scanning an invisible screen in front of him or up and over to the side a bit….frozen look and then say something insane or say I love you….yah yah….that’s right….I love you! Anyways! Kind of script like….sometimes I would just be looking at him and it’s as if he could read my mind….and then he would say something reassuring to me as if I were giving him a hard time and I wasn’t even talking just looking at him….!

    1. narc affair says:

      Thats the scheming which continually goes on in their mind.

  5. Sniglet says:

    Imagine the benefits you will receive having a Greater Elite Narcissist IPPS. Surely you could find one in your social circles.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Not as an IPPS.

      1. Sniglet says:

        Why not?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Fuel would not be good enough.

  6. Iris says:

    All this praise much give you some nice fuel. Now you can skip lunch because you’re already full 😉

    I’m sure your interview went very well, but I listened to an radio interview a while ago in which the lady kept on sucking up to you and giggling like a schoolgirl. I felt so embarrassed for her. You kept your cool though, which must have been really hard.

    Do you remember that?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No as repeatedly explained, whilst it is fuel, it is low in potency and quantity.

      I do remember that, yes.

      1. Iris says:

        I meant that they will spread the word for you.

        Onwards and upwards to world dominance…..

  7. Iris says:

    What is the tipping point from Upper Midranger to Lower Greater?
    Awareness and level of malice?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      In essence, yes.

      1. Windstorm2 says:

        Yeah, this always makes me wonder about my exhusband. I’ve never considered him a malicious person. He’s definitely aware and has been since we were in college, and he does have a level of malice, but it very rarely comes out. Most people would never imagine it was there. I think he’s probably just really smart and far-seeing enough to keep it hidden almost all the time. He’s always analyzing and thinking several levels deep. Allowing malice to show would not advance his agenda.

        It is an interesting question, though. Is it the potential or the actions that make a person’s character? To me, it is our actions that define us.

  8. abrokenwing says:

    I have received an email yesterday from Bree Bonchay asking me to complete a short survey about WNAAD. I had no trouble answering these questions.
    ‘What did you like about the event?’
    HG Tudor’s interview.
    ‘Who would you like to hear speak at the WNAAD Telesummit 2018?’
    HG Tudor.
    ‘ Do you have any other feedback or suggestions for the WNAAD Telesummit 2018?’
    More of HG Tudor please.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      HG approves mightily ABW. Follow ABW’s lead good readers.

      1. MLA - Clarece says:

        I had received that too and plugged you for the 2018 summit.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you

      2. Windstorm2 says:

        Already had done!

    2. E. B. says:

      I recommended HG too. I did it last Tuesday.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Thank you EB.

        1. E. B. says:

          You are welcome. I am sure they will invite you again next year because your interview was a success.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            I agree.

  9. Blank says:

    I always wonder why my nex never looked for a new IPPS, after I gave up being the perfect Stepford wife and telling him I would no longer entertain or take care of his business associates anymore. I was depressed for so long, but I guess I still took care of his meals, his laundry, cleaning and any other responsibility that he didn’t want to deal with. He cheated, but he never made any effort to date anyone seriously.
    I still can’t figure him out. He’s absolutely a greater narcissist, but he’s different.. I wonder if that has to do with his ex- girlfriend’s suicide or if maybe he is authistic in a way as well, or completely self-absorbed.
    He treats me like I do not exist The only time he speaks to me he either needs his shoes polished or he is provoking and gaslighting. He really messed up my mind.

  10. Peppi Boudreau says:

    Can the Greaters have a successful marriage or do they attempt to out maneuver each other to become the Greater Narcissist? Thanks again, HG.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Do you mean if there are two together?

      1. Peppi Boudreau says:

        Yes. Or is there constant fighting between the two in order for one to get the upper hand in the marriage? I think my twin sister’s ex husband and his wife are Greaters. They have been together for 17 years. I know for sure he is.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You will see when the further instalment of ‘When Narcissists Collide” is provided.

    2. narc affair says:

      Hi peppi…my mum is a midrange victim narc and my stepdad what i suspect as a midranger too but a cerebral. Theyve been married about 30 yrs. They seem to go back and forth who is superior but my mothers the one thats usually calling the shots and if he resists she uses her angry silent treatments on him. I wouldnt say its been a marriage made from heaven but theyve stayed together and seem to compliment each other. Of course behind closed doors it could be a different story. I do think narcs attract each other whether in a relationship or friendship.

  11. Peppi Boudreau says:

    Hi, HG. I was wondering how two greaters in a marriage interact with each other on a daily basis? Can two greaters create a marriage of feasibility for both partners? Do they combine their efforts to manuplate, premeditate, conspire, and use covert methods to subdue their victims? I would imagine they work together as a partnership to preplan their maneuvers to conquer their victims or potential victims. Do they develop their own individual plan and share their strategy to their spouse and combine their efforts to subdue their victim or potental victims. Thank You, HG.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Await the future instalment of the “When Narcissists Collide Series”

      1. Peppi Boudreau says:

        Thank You, HG.

  12. narc affair says:

    Ive not had many greaters in my life but i have had what i suspect to be two.
    One was my supervisor at the seniors lodge i worked at in my 20s. Im certain she knew what she was doing and why she was doing it. My coworker and friend called her the mafia momma bc she acted like a mafia boss and had such a far reach on influence. Another lodge a town over she even had influence over and she didnt work there.
    She would rule via devalument. She would sabatoge your job if you werent under her control and you didnt show her the respect she expected. She did the mean and sweet cycle to make people pliable. If you did what she wanted she would give you a few sweet crumbs of praise but would throw in mean here and there to throw you off and keep you on your toes.
    She would triangulate staff continually to keep us in line. Rewarding those that snitched on others and favored them.
    She ruled thru fear of devalument and embarressment. We had a communication book we would write comments in from our shifts. Quite often we would show up to work to a comment from her telling us what we did wrong and singling us out. Other staff would read this and it was a way of shaming.
    The manager above her at the time who i had so much respect for would put her in her place despite the fact she had tried to schmooze her but the manager was built of integrity and knew where to draw the line and do what was right. I remember seeing the supervisor red eyed and knew the manager had talked to her. Sadly the manager passed away from brain cancer years ago. She was the best employer id ever had. She eventually made it a rule that there was no longer to be shaming in the communication book and any problems were to be dealt with one on one.
    Integrity she had and she didnt allow this greater to take that away.
    This greater supervisor is still at the lodge ruling with an iron fist and knows so very well how she manipulates and why. She didnt have it easy raising kids on her own and in a town with not many jobs she found her niche and wasnt about to let anyone step in and take it away from her. Her manipulating nature has kept her on top and her workers beneath her. She rules with fear like a tyrant would and its driven by …fear. Fear of losing the power she feels is necessary for the survival of her job and income. She knows what shes doing and it has become second nature to who she is and her survival. She craves the constant praising and insecurity she inflicts in those that work for her. She is a god amongst her workplace and enjoys being what she is which is a great narcissist.
    My present narc i suspect is a lower greater. He absolutely knows what hes doing and has perfected it. Hes been doing it for many years. He loves his lifestyle and never grows weary bc he has a network of fuel sources to fall back on. Devaluing is rare but he will inflict it where its necessary. He knows how his sources think bc hes studied them very closely. Hes been the ultimate listener for that very reason. Hes taken note of weaknesses and likes and dislikes to tailor his facade to fit perfectly. He knows what he is and takes secret pride in it bc it makes him feel like the man he secretly knows he will never truely be.

  13. Nuit Étoilée says:

    As with the silhouette in the poll posts, tell us HG, is that you in the picture?

    1. HG Tudor says:


      1. Bibi says:

        The nose is too pointy and doesn’t match the ‘HG Wants To Know’ image. (There was one that wasn’t so dark.) Teehee.

  14. SuperXena says:

    No offence but reading this post brought to my mind the following:
    “Hell is empty. All the devils are here.” – William Shakespeare, The Tempest

    1. HG Tudor says:

      None taken SX and I think that is an apt quote.

      1. SuperXena says:

        …as always and as expected , your posts awaken extreme thoughts and reactions.
        Hard not to express them sometimes.

    2. Sunniva says:

      Jeg liker at du er så god til å se disse sammenhengene.
      I actually got the shiver reading your posted quote. It reminded me how the greater used to twist every conversation or discussion by quoting from an author he knew I loved, just to turn the table and make me feel that my point was never valid. Since we operated in the same science-field, this was his favourite:
      «In politics, my dear, there are no people, but ideas – no feelings, but interests; in politics we do not kill, but merely remove obstacles, that is all». – Alexandre Dumas, the count of monte cristo

      1. SuperXena says:

        Yes, I get the shiver as well when I read some posts related to my ex. It brings dark thoughts …I find myself shifting between two extreme thoughts of good -evil, good-evil back and forth, back and forth…
        Yes, they know how to turn the table…words are their weapon.

        Now I am with Dante Alighieri ‘s Inferno and the journey to hell.
        I stopped at the phrase:
        ‘Abandon hope all ye who enter here’ which is applicable here so…..
        …..I will shift to lighter thoughts now.

        I am more familiar with Duma’s The Three Musketeers “…

        God Jul och Gott Nytt År önskar jag dig!

    3. Blank says:

      As a child I was always told I would go to hell, since I was such a sinner (I had no idea of what I did wrong, but I’d go there anyway).
      I was scared as.. hell.
      Now I’m at ease, must be a quiet and peaceful place.

    4. sunnivaseier says:

      “….I found myself within a dark woods where the straight way was lost” – Dante, Inferno.

      I know what you mean. For so long I have oppressed my mind when it comes to the memories around the greater. The last months it has all resurfaced. It is good though, because now I can process and move on.

      For the holiday season I will put away all my favourite authors that reminds me of him, and just read the nerdy stuff like “The Hitchhiker’s guide to the Galaxy” by Douglas Adams, who by the way had one of the most brilliant minds, if you ask me. To combine science with humor is the highest level.

      Jeg ønsker deg en helt fantastisk jul og et godt nyttår, kloke SX!

      1. SuperXena says:

        Hallå Sunnivan( sunnivaseier):

        Thank you for your tips of the book “The Hitchhiker’s guide to the Galaxy” by Douglas Adams. I read a summary and I find it a little bit “esoteric “/abstract for me but I will certainly have a second look at it.

        On the other hand, I found an entertaining book for these holidays
        called :”The Subtle art of not giving a f*ck – a counterintuitive approach to living a good life”.

        I can’t say the overall rating of it since I am not done with it yet but I found entertaining the way he approaches the concept of “happiness” and its pursuit. There is no ultimate happiness as such ( he speaks as well about Hedonism) but he states (among other things) that:
        if you do not enjoy the journey to reach your goal and what it is required : i.ex.hours of training, reading,devotin,working etc) there is a high probability that you do not reach it. It is not the goal itself that should bring you joy, but the climb itself to reach it.
        “….it’s a never-ending upward spiral. And if you think at any point you’re allowed to stop climbing, I’m afraid you’re missing the point. Because the joy is in the climb itself.”

        So: what is “happiness ” for you? What is being “happy”? Is there really something like the “ultimate” state of happiness?


    5. Windstorm2 says:

      My exhusband’s first university degree was in philosophy. He often said, “Abandon hope all ye who enter here.” He has always been very fond of Dante. It was never menacing, though. Usually he was describing the world and people around us. In many ways it was helpful to me. I’ve found that when I analyse people’s behavior and can associate them with literature and philosophy, that it makes me more immune to their abuse and manipulations. Knowledge is power.

      1. SuperXena says:

        Hello Windstorm ,

        I hope you are having a wonderful and peaceful Christmas holiday.

        I completely agree with you about us the human kind.

        Your comment made me wonder:

        1.It would be interesting to know what is your ex’s standpoint ( he is a Cerebral right?) concerning him with regards Dante’s 9 circles of hell? :
        Limbo ,lust,greed,gluttony,wrath,heresy,violence,fraud,treachery.

        2.Is he religious? What is “his” religion? Which are his religious beliefs?

        3. Does he believe in God? What is his concept of God?

        4. How does this knowledge make you more immune? Does it make it possible for you to “step out” of this dynamic and be more neutral? Not affected?

        If I have the option of choosing (like in a romantic relationship), I rather choose not entering the abusive relationship even though I know how to protect myself by training to be more immune through knowledge. I do not see the point of letting myself being abused even though I can be able to be more immune, unaffected.
        It is hard to express what I mean …does this make sense to you?

        Of course, if there is no option than having to interact with them like in the professional world, some family members or due i.ex. to having children with them , this protection /immunity that knowledge brings is of great value.
        Best wishes!

        1. Windstorm2 says:

          Wow!! You always ask such thought-provoking questions! I’ll try to answer.

          1. He is a cerebral. Not sure his standpoint on the 9 circles of hell. This week is not a good time to feel him out on it – too much going on. I’ll try to work it in later.

          2. He has always hidden most of his true beliefs. He is a theist, in that he does believe in God, but if I tried to get details from him, he would joke and obfuscate, then change the subject. It is almost impossible to get a clear answer from him to a direct question. It has to be like a game and then he may very well lie – just for the fun of it. He loves to lie, mislead, confuse. It amuses him.

          He has no real religion, though. He says he’s more a Catholic than anything, but that is just because I am one and he’s gone to mass with me over the years. I guess he’s sort of absorbed Catholicism like a character trait for when religious people ask him what church he belongs to (we live in a very religious culture). He does not believe in Jesus, though, and thinks the Bible is just made up stories.

          3. He does definitely believe in God. In Alcoholics Anonymous you must accept that there is a power higher than yourself. He has often said that his spirituality is best summed up thru the Serenity Prayer: “God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference.”

          4. Maybe being able to associate people’s behavior with literature and philosophy makes me more immune to their abuse because it makes it impersonal. Things are always easier to deal with when I don’t take them personally. Sort of like the weather. It may be obnoxious, but I just deal with it and it usually doesn’t have any lasting affect.

          Also being of a scientific turn of mind, when I switch my thinking over to examining and classifying, then that removes all emotion. Emotional abuse can’t really happen if my emotions are shut off.

          Like you I would certainly choose relationships without abuse if possible, but we don’t get to choose our coworkers or our family. We have to deal with what life gives us.

          Thanks you for your questions. You always make me have to think and I enjoy that!

          1. SuperXena says:

            Ha,ha. Thank you. I am happy to know that you enjoy my thought- provoking questions!
            I got your answer and thank you for answering so quickly and extensively . I am processing it now…will come back to you when I read it thoroughly .
            I enjoy as well your extensive answers and please do not ask your ex if that means trouble for you…..

          2. SuperXena says:

            Now it was my turn to think with your answers.

            1. 9 circles of hell. Perhaps you won’t get a clear answer from him. I am sure though that questions about spirituality do arise within them. After all, they are human.

            2. Understandable that he will do that. Usually we do not get straight answers from them.
            “I guess he’s sort of absorbed Catholicism like a character trait for when religious people ask him what church he belongs to (we live in a very religious culture). He does not believe in Jesus, though, and thinks the Bible is just made up stories.”
            Do you mean that he took /absorbed this character trait of you being Catholic as his? Because it serves his aims to belong that community?
            Hypothetically ,if you had another religion ( I know you wouldn’t) Do you think he would absorb it as well if it serves his aims?
            Jesus: the question remains: if he was our saviour, how comes there has been and there still are many abused ( specially children) ? It is just a question I ask to myself now. Hoping I do not offend anyone in here by making this reflection…

            3. If he believes in God ( something that may seem surprising due to their sense of superiority) accepting that there is a power higher than himself :

            Which role does he believe he has in this world given by God?

            Does he see himself as an extension of God?

            4. The reason I asked you about this is because I am finding myself now being more able to “step out” of this dynamic. The more knowledge I get of how they function and how they think , the more I can see it from the outside making me more immune ,less emotional, non-affected , less personal. As you say: adopting a more scientific approach, comparing, linking to other philosophies.etc.

            I think that is what is meant by finally reaching Zero Impact.

            Thank you for your answers Windstorm.
            And as always…best wishes.

          3. Windstorm2 says:

            2. Yes. I think he has associated himself with Catholicism because it accomplishes his aims, ie allows him to claim a church affiliation to better fit in with his façade. He does still actually go to mass with me, but then that fits his aims as well.

            As to would he have absorbed any other religion if I believed it and it would enhance his façade? The answer is yes. I am actually very ecumenical in my spirituality. My own thinking embraces aspects of Buddhism, Islam, Shamanism and Wicca. He is totally dismissive of all of those – but then none of them would further his aims or help his façade, since they are all condemned as heresy in our society. They would do damage to his façade.

            That said, he has no objection to my believing in them and I’m sure would embrace them and make them his own if he felt it would be an advantage to himself (He may well gain fuel by dismissively ridiculing my beliefs to other people as how crazy his ex is. Lol! Whenever I meet someone he works with, they always look at me like I have 3 heads. I asked him once “What kind of things do you say at work about me?” He answered, “Whatever will get the biggest laugh!”)

            I have no personal trouble accepting the existence of God and people doing terrible things here on Earth. Jesus said, “the poor you will have with you always.” I take that to mean the abused and down-trodden as well. We have free will. That includes the freedom to commit evil atrocities.

            In my own belief system, I think our lives here on Earth are an opportunity to improve ourselves and grow into wiser, better beings. God (or whatever term you use) will guide and help us if we ask, but otherwise leaves us to work out things for ourselves. One of my very favorite quotes is the supposed last words of the Buddha, “Seek out your own salvation with diligence.”

            3. That’s why it is so important for us to help one another. It is up to us to correct the problems and evil we see – not just expect God to do it. I believe my exhusband believes that as well. I do not believe he sees himself as an extension of God. Rather I imagine that he feels God is a force completely beyond our understanding. Something separate from us, but a constant reminder that none of us humans are all powerful. That thinking is just an illusion. He is really a very wise man.

            4. He told me he almost bought me a statue of 3 Celtic goddesses for Christmas, but “There’s no where you could cram one more thing in your house. What you need is a dump truck to haul away all your junk.” Twenty years ago that statement would have hurt me, but now I just laughed and said, “Oh, you’re just jealous of all my things,” smiled at him and he laughed. 😊 I know that he doesn’t ever actually buy anyone gifts, but he did give me a very nice Amazon gift card (which I immediately used to buy more things! Lol!).
            But this is an example of what you said about “zero impact.” I understand the “why” behind the seemingly hurtful things he says, so they no longer have the power to hurt me.

            Hope your week is filled with happiness!

  15. Iris says:

    I know greaters have the Dark Triad: narcissism, Machiavellianism and psychopathy.

    But can a lesser or a midranger also be Machiavellian?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      An UMR can.

      1. Iris says:

        Thanks, just as I suspected, but good to know for sure.

        So that definitely makes my sister an UMR.

        I think you would be quite impressed by her: excellent scheming abilities in a beautiful and elegant package.

        A nice little challenge to get some decent fuel out of her.

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