The Carrier Empath


The Carrier Empath. A particular type of empathetic individual who naturally gains the attention of our kind. As I have explained before, our kind are drawn to empathetic individuals who fall within one of the classes of empath. Those classes consist of The Empath, The Super Empath and The Co-Dependent. The Carrier Empath is a particular division of those classes and therefore can be found amidst any of those classes. The Carrier Empath is not a stand-alone form of empath but rather is embodied by exhibiting Carrier tendencies which “bolt on” to the relevant class of empathic individual.

The Carrier Empath shoulders, more than others, the emotional burden. This person rarely talks about themselves, although they have much they could talk about, either as a consequence of their natural intelligence which lends itself to considerable discourse, their ability to connect with people and engage in what could be termed as small talk so people are put at ease or because of their extensive experiences they have much they could share with other people. The Carrier Empath does not see it as necessary to talk about themselves. All empaths are good listeners, it is one of the empathic traits which our kind look for, but the Carrier Empath is a superlative listener. Exhibiting considerable patience, he or she will sit and listen to the woes and problems of others. They do not jump to conclusions, as many people would, instinctively forming a view of the person they are engaging with, within moments of meeting. Instead, the Carrier Empath is able to resist making an early judgement about this person and will listen to what they have to say, so they can best work out how to assist. The Carrier Empath knows full well that sometimes just being listened to is the best thing for another person.

Those with Carrier tendencies are work-like in their approach, reliable, organised and effective when facing pressure. They regard it as their role to take on responsibility for others and struggle to determine the boundary of when they should not do so. They are unable to avoid taking on other people’s issues and problems and feel a need to assist but to do so through actions and a practical application of their compassion, honesty, decency and understanding.

The Carrier Empath is not a person who overflows with emotion but is certainly not devoid of it. Their emotion does not appear in surges and spikes, histrionic reactions as a consequence of the situation which they find themselves in but rather as a steady and reliable provider of fuel through their evident compassion and supportive nature. Whilst caught in the dizzying devaluation, some empaths will find themselves despairing and having up days and down days whilst they experience the push and pull behaviours, the Carrier Empath adopts a stoic approach. Inside he or she may be churning but they do their best to maintain a brave face as they seek to remain dependable and forging forward. This person is solid and dependable. They are not a dullard, but they do not shine and glow like other empathic individuals. They are grounded, practical, pragmatic and excellent problem solvers.

The Carrier Empath is unable to leave responsibility with others. They regard it as their task to be responsible for other people and they rarely judge the flaws of others, but rather see it as an opportunity for them to shoulder the burden. They will remain with those who suffer from addictions, seeing it as part of their obligation to remain and fight the fight on behalf of the afflicted. The Carrier Empath readily takes on the problems of others and will do so even when this becomes a drain on his or her resources, such as time and money. They may have somewhere they need to be but if the telephone call is continuing because the caller needs help and assistance, the Carrier Empath will continue to listen.

There is a strong sense of obligation on the part of the Carrier Empath. Whilst empaths as whole feel obligation, the empath will assist because they feel good about doing so, in a way, they gain a form of their own fuel from helping others. The Co-Dependent will usually help because he or she has to do so, being of a  giving nature in order to find validation for themselves in terms of their place in the order of things. The Super Empath relished the challenge that is presented and regards it as an opportunity to exhibit their powers. Layer the Carrier Empath onto any of those classes and you add a complexion of obligation – the relevant class of empath does it because that is what should be done, that is the right thing to do and they have an obligation to care. They will recognise that the task in hand may be difficult, they will note that it will drain them but their fearsome sense of duty causes them to be the first to volunteer and the last to give up.

This division of empathic individual is certainly compassionate but approaches matters in a practical manner rather than “hearts and flowers” and whilst they will certainly use words to comfort, to support and to show empathy they prefer to rely on actions. If someone is suffering, rather than hand out tea and sympathy, the Carrier Empath will assume the mantle of the problem themselves and tackle it head on. They are especially apt at standing in the shoes of somebody in order to absorb the blast on behalf of someone who is struggling or wants their help. They are the proverbial person who would take a bullet.

The Carrier Empath has significant reserves of inner strength but is unable to regulate the use of this strength, since they tend to be blinded by their need to resolve the problem (often expecting no assistance at all from the person being helped) and therefore they will keep going until they have depleted their resources and a sudden collapse ensues.

Such individuals are prized by our kind, but by certain narcissists in particular. There is the provision of fuel, that has to always be there, but it does not always fountain from the Carrier Empath. Greaters tend not to choose those with Carrier Empath tendencies as a primary source because the gushing appreciation is not the style of the Carrier Empath, furthermore, the Greater tends to be more resourceful and therefore has less need of this element of the Carrier Empath. Instead, the Carrier Empath is desired by the Lesser and Mid-Range schools and especially so by the Victim Narcissist.

The Victim Narcissist derives fuel from the provision of care and compassion. His less impressive countenance is not one which results in gushing praise and over-the-top appreciation. Accordingly, the exhibition of care and compassion gives him the fuel he wants plus the residual benefits he requires and this is always preferable to the empath who gushes with praise but does little in the way of practical care. Thus those with Carrier tendencies are more suited to the Victim Narcissist.

Furthermore, the Carrier Empath comes with considerable residual benefits in terms of the provision of caring for someone with poor health, dealing with chores and problems on that person’s behalf, providing food, shelter, money and such like and therefore this raft of residual benefits appeals to Lesser Narcissists in particular and naturally the Victim Narcissist from the Lesser School.

The Carrier’s capacity for “taking the bullet” results in them also having appeal to the Mid-Range Narcissist. The passive aggressive Mid-Range Narcissist who finds that he is not able to get his way with a third party will invariably turn to the Carrier Empath to step up on his or her behalf and get the problem sorted. If weakened from a lack of fuel and potential criticism from this third party, the Mid-Range will turn to the Carrier Empath to make everything alright again and the Carrier Empath will dutifully attend to his.

During devaluation the Carrier Empath is wounded and confused by the manipulations used against him or her, but their sense of duty carries them forward and they will often fall victim to the narcissist’s capacity to blame others. Accordingly, if the narcissist blames his outburst on being overworked, the Carrier Empath will accept this explanation and will look at ways of alleviating the load on the narcissist, by taking more on him or herself or even going so far as to challenge the boss of the narcissist to secure a reduction in workload. The narcissist knows that with a Carrier Empath he can in effect point that person in the direction of a problem and the Carrier Empath will march into battle on his behalf. Again, this is why the Greater has less of a need for those with Carrier tendencies and why those of a Lesser or Mid-Range school have more reliance on the Carrier.

Devaluation causes those with Carrier tendencies to battle on in the hope of resolving the narcissist’s problems. The Carrier is less inclined to blame themselves. They do not see themselves as the cause of the problems which the narcissist alludes to during devaluation, but rather only blame themselves for not resolving those problems. The Carrier is blinded to understanding that there is no fix, but regards every problem as having a solution which will, with the right application of energy and resource, eventually present itself. The worse the narcissist becomes during devaluation, the more those with the Carrier tendency will apply themselves to trying to sort the problem out and usually identifies an external source (wrongly) as the source of the problem and is ultimately sent on a wild goose chase trying to tackle this external source whilst the problems continue unabated.

If the relevant narcissist does not have a primary source with Carrier tendencies it is likely that one will be recruited as a secondary source. This is more likely with the Greater who will prefer the primary source to be fountaining with fuel (rather than providing a host of residual benefits) and to have a secondary source who can be turned to as and when required, perhaps at moments of crisis, to be utilised for their Carrier traits. Whilst the Lesser and Mid-Range narcissist and especially the Victim Narcissist cadre of those two schools will want a Carrier Empath as a primary source, the Greater will position one as a secondary source since they make excellent Lieutenants.

It is common to find that the scape-goated child of a narcissist, if they avoid becoming a narcissist  themselves, tends to exhibit strong Carrier tendencies because they realise that by getting things done, having to attend to their own needs because the narcissistic parent has abandoned their duties at an early stage and also having to parent the narcissistic parent, is the most effective method of surviving. They care but do so without “showiness” and deliver in a practical and dependable manner.

It is also worth noting that as some narcissists age they will gravitate more to securing a primary source who is a Carrier Empath. Though fuel remains important, the need for the residual benefits becomes increasingly important for those narcissists who see their looks fading, their mobility decreasing and therefore suffer a reduction in their ability to charm and attract. Of course, this is not applicable to all of our kind, since many become distinguished with age, have the magnetism that comes from financial power and their innate charisma and sharp mind remain undulled. However, for those that see the waning of their powers, the Carrier Empath becomes more attractive to them.


103 thoughts on “The Carrier Empath

  1. Linda says:

    “the relevant class of empath does it because that is what should be done, that is the right thing to do and they have an obligation to care.”
    Holy moley, your description of the carrier empath describes me to a T. The only thing in this post that I take issue with is quoted above. I do it bc it is what should be done & is the right thing to do. But not bc I have an obligation to care. I do not have an obligation to care. I often, in fact, do not care a whit. I do it bc it should be done, not bc I (by “I” insert any person bc we realize that we are not different from anyone else) should do it. And not bc I care.
    Thanks for the very helpful description of my tendencies.

  2. nunya biz says:

    I, again, find this annoying about myself.
    But I try to remember I’ve got several other influencing schools and cadres including Contagion in significance, Savior, which also annoys me, and my dominant Super school combines with Carrier in a strange way I think. My Super traits tend to come out sexually and I think interestingly with Contagion tendencies. My carrier stuff has always been there, and I am the scapegoated child of a narcissist, so I thought that was interesting. I would also say, as being discussed on this page, that I am an HSP. I am very careful about what intensities I am exposed to. Also I think the Super combining with Carrier makes me mostly avoidant of Victim narcissists for relationships, they really really annoy me a lot and grate on my nerves. I tend to end up in relationships almost always with MMR’s in the Cerebral/Elite/Somatic range. I have almost no interest in men without certain somatic traits, which I pick up on immediately like a homing beacon.

    But I have just responded to a hoover and I am mad at myself. I think he is a MMR Somatic and has some strong Victim manipulations. He is also becoming an “aging narcissist” I think as discussed in this article. I think I was questioning whether he is a narcissist (he is, WTF is wrong with me) and I just went into “benefit of the doubt” mode again and he asked me for help with something. I would not and will not help with what he asked, but I still answered nicely and I can already feel him playing.
    I know, no contact, but I know so many narcissists it’s unbelievable and I tried to change my email once and it was an absolute nightmare due to the cloud stuff and I gave up after several hours.

    I am the only person at work who waits for the front desk girl at the end of the day to leave together. Everyone else I work with has empathic traits but still they just quickly walk out at the end of their shift and when I’m the last one, I wait. It’s really only an extra ten minutes and I don’t mind at all, but I am fascinated with the fact that I just can’t walk out without waiting and others can without hesitation.

    1. nunya biz says:

      Also, I am very upset. For some reason a had pms for several days this cycle, instead of the usual one day, and my neuroticism is at an all time high. I totally decided I am a Narcissist again, which I do every day, but I don’t think I was in my dream, I’m not sure. I had a narcsite dream again. I think I was triggered by sandals, Meghan Markle, and intense BLL binges. In my dream my boss from work was shaming at me because I rudely talked about Donald Trump at a party in front of royalty and politicos who were conservative minded and apparently I was representing her and have a big mouth that ruined some news recording and had to be bleeped out.
      Please don’t judge me! What kind of neurotic lame dream is this, why can’t I be having sex with ryan gosling.

      1. MB says:

        NB, sex with Ryan Gosling. Word!

        1. nunya biz says:

          Thanks for commenting on my rant, MB. I was trying to make light while genuinely not feeling well. Ryan Gosling would have been a more interesting dream.

  3. Lexi says:

    I know this is an older blog post, but hopefully I can still ask questions on it. If an aging narcissist permanently loses his secondary source, and begins to become aware of the fact that he is losing his ability to attract fuel from other people, is it possible that he will finally stop discarding the long-term Carrier Empath (primary source) & and instead starts to be kinder to her? Can their relationship can actually work out and become somewhat healthy?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      The reduced capacity to acquire fuel from secondary sources for reasons associated with again invariably results in a ‘softening’ of the behaviour towards the IPPS.
      Can it work out and become somewhat healthy? No. A narcissist is still a narcissist, old or young.

  4. Echo says:

    Carrier Super Empath with no doubt, scape-goat also. You gave answers to my role in the fuel-matrix, without me even asking. Perfectly fitted to where I were and were I might be. I thought I was picked by poor judgement of a narcissist, but I was not. I had my role. I find your blog very useful and practical and for that I’m very thankful, whatever your motivation is.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome, Echo.

  5. K says:

    Thanks for the laugh Jasmine! It is another School of Empath that HG is going to write about and emotional contagion is referenced in this article below.

    This quote is from Dirty Empath. It is missing the cadre Savior Empath.

    “There are four schools of empath (Standard, Super, Co-Dependent and Contagion) . Layered on to these schools are the empathic cadres (such as Magnet, Carrier and Geyser).”

    1. Jasmine says:

      Thank you K! So much to learn. I shall go read it now 🙂

      1. K says:

        Pleasure! Enjoy the reading.

    2. narc affair says:

      Hi k…wow i just posted this more or less pertaining to being a hsp. I wonder if an hsp is the same as a contagion empath? After reading contagion empath i know this to be me 100%. Its erie bc ive not read a description thats described who i am so precisely. I always took it to be a type of psychic sense were more attuned to. It reminds me of the boy and the cook from the stephen king movie the shining except thatd be directly psychic.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        They are along similar lines.

      2. narc affair says:

        Hi HG…it amazes me you know all these types of empaths and narcissists in detail. Have you met many contagion empaths? What has been your experiences with them?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I have not knowingly met any contagion empaths. I have only interacted with them through the auspices of the blog and its environs.

        2. K says:

          narc affair
          I took a quick online test and scored 19 so that makes me an HSP.

      3. K says:

        Hello narc affair
        My curiosity has been piqued so I will be taking a look at it. I have noticed many people blogging about being an hsp and I can relate to contagion empath so it is something I need to look at. The Shining was great…oh man, I just did a quick google search and it seems that I may be an HSP. I gotta check out the test; maybe I suffer from EPD (empathic personality disorder).

      4. Twilight says:


        Suffering from EPD, 😂 I am over here still concern with the entire narcissistic side I tap into every now and then. Some of my employees are of HGs kind and butting heads with them….. I just smile sweetly and give them a choice. Do it or enjoy your permanent vacation.

      5. Bibi says:

        I very much might be a contagion empath but I need to read more 1st. HG, an article please? 😀

        You guys might want to check what your enneagram is.

        I will bet most here are 2s or 9s. That is very common for the empath. I am a 4, however, with a 3 wing.

        I know it sounds hokey but it was funny ’cause a pal of mine asked me to take the test and when I read my result it was like someone had transcribed my diary. It really dissects what your fears and neuroses are. (That is the correct plural form, right?)

        I have already guessed HG’s Carl Jung personality test: ENTJ.

        You seem like an extrovert.
        You are definitely intuitive with a deeper understanding.
        But also run by logic, so therefore a thinker.
        And you seem very organized and detailed, which fits the Judger.

        Me? INFJ. The rarest type, baby! Oh yea!

        (I am sure there are others here.)

        Personality tests are fun. Not a label to run your life, but just a fun guide.

      6. Twilight says:

        Narc Affair

        You say after reading about the contagion you are sure this is you.
        How did you come to this?

        I have always known, yet I had someone in my life that reconised what I was when I was very young. They taught me many things, a day hasn’t gone by that I have not thought of them.
        I am curious how you reconised this, in person I would know when I was face to face with another, it is a little harder here to many emotions to sift through.

      7. narc affair says:

        Hi twilight…first off i didnt know what an hsp was until a psychologist informed me i was one. She also was an hsp and told me about some books on it and a local group which i never went to. I regret not going. This was before my now narc. Then i had another psychologist tell me the very same thing and i suspected her to be a narcissist.
        I always knew i had a bit of a psychic connection i wouldnt say its strong but its there. Ive been deeply affected by things i see in the news or if i learn about something thats happened to someone itll stick with me sometimes for weeks. I cant shake it. I keep thinking what they are going thru and how its impacted them. I can only describe it as a heaviness and consuming.
        A family i know thru another family they lost twins this past december in a bad highway accident and its been so hard to get them off my mind. The parents, siblings(they were 2 if triplets and 4 other siblings) and the two girls themselves. Their last moments, the fact they were on their way home for christmas, their parents grief and feeling like they shouldnt of let them drive, the guy they hit his guilt over it. For a few weeks its really taken most of my days thinking about them. I just feel so badly. Im trying to channel it thru prayer to lift how i feel. I didnt know them that well yet thats how i am. It clouds my thoughts these things.
        Im very sensitive too and easily hurt. If i could choose id not want to be an hsp but be an empath. I think hsp is a bit of a hinderance bc it doesnt accomplish anything unless you reach out in some way and use it to help others. Its mostly impacted my emotions.

        1. Twilight says:

          Thank you Narc Affair

          The article speaks of emotional contagion, not the Contagion Empath.

          A person can be HSP and not be an Empath. They are Empathic which is why they are on the Empathic spectrum.

        2. K says:

          I understand that too, narc affair. I have to shut it off, if not, I wouldn’t function very well.

  6. K says:

    So far, I think I still belong to the school: Super Empath and the cadres Carrier and Dirty Empath are applicable but I am curious about the Contagion Empath school, as well.

    1. Jasmine says:

      Yes, what is this contagion? Sound like a virus.

      1. Twilight says:

        Hello Jasmine

        You made me laugh this morning.
        We are not a virus.

      2. Blank says:

        “Empathy is the capability to share and understand another’s emotion and feelings. It is often characterized as the ability to “put oneself into another’s shoes,” or in some way experience what the other person is feeling.

        Emotional contagion is the tendency to catch and feel emotions that are similar to and influenced by those of others. It is a process in which a person or group influences the emotions or behavior of another person or group through the conscious or unconscious induction of emotion states and behavioral attitudes.”

        I suffer from emotional contagion. And I use the word ‘suffer’ on purpose, because it really is too much. I just feel anybody’s feelings. On a website on HSP i read what to do about it, but it is still very hard to controll this.

        1. Twilight says:


          Catching another’s emotions, that is putting it mildly. Many have this Empathic contingency, a Contagion Empath is the extreme.
          There is nowhere I can go and not “feel” what another is going through.

        2. Jasmine says:

          Thank you blank. I shall look up that info!
          Mine is quite bad too. (I cant attend concerts.. I’ll faint. I’ve always been known to be the “sensitive one” .. nobody in my family will tell me anything 😜)

        3. Jasmine says:

          PS… one trick that helps me, out and about: I put in my headphones and turn on some loud music. Let’s me be in my own little world if I’m feeling especially “exposed”

      3. Blank says:

        Twilight & Jasmine, being an HSP, I thought, was the reason of my depression (I know now that there was a lot more to cause it). I will read the news; immigrants drowning, a woman killed by her (narc)husband, a child killed in a car accident, etc.. and that will stick in my mind for days, weeks, sometimes even years (like the James Bulger story, that at the time made it clear for me God did not exist). I could never be really happy because I suffer along with all those people. Now that I’m trying to work on this I often feel I’m getting more Narc-ish and I feel guilty. I try to think I can’t do anything about immigrants drowning at sea and I try to forget about it and reason it away from my mind, but it feels like sticking my head in the sand.
        How do you cope with this?

        And indeed Jasmine, I avoided going to concerts and the theater for years, but I do go now and just always make sure that I’ll be seated at the end of a row, so I can escape. I honestly thought recently, I whish I was a narc and not have all these feelings and emotions. But then, having to look for fuel all day, I get exhausted even thinking about it :).

        1. Twilight says:


          I am a Contagion Empath not just HSP. Amplify an HSP by a thousand and you are close to what a Contagion feels, not only that we don’t need to read about things to feel it, we just feel it. I do know what is fake and what is real, my sympathy will kick in when something is fake, if it is real I feel it. I watch very little t.v. I don’t watch the news, I do keep up with things yet I control my exposure to how much and what.

          How do I cope? Meditation, nature, music, and water. Awareness thou has been a factor that has helped me the most. I was born this way and know nothing else.

          1. Jasmine says:

            Water, nature, music, meditation.. I turn to all these as well! They always soothe me. 🕉

            Blank, that’s just awful about your mother. It must have been devastating to hear that. *hugs
            There is nothing wrong with you. Some people will never understand… that’s their issue, not yours. XO

        2. Jasmine says:

          I don’t read the news. Or watch it. It’s the only way I’ve found to cope with it.

          Blank, twilight, bibi… do y’all find your bodies sensitive as well? Ex: I can break out in hives from water one day & then not the next, almost always super hyper to medications. I also have issues with the environment around me: light bulbs, the weather, watches, etc. It’s as if the hsp does not end with my interactions with people, but extends to my entire life.
          I always say: “if something is going to happen, it’ll happen to me”

      4. Blank says:

        Thanks for answering girls. Nature and music, yes!!

        And Jasmine, my body is very sensitive as well, but then what isn’t?
        Everything from the food I eat, the clothes I wear, the environment I’m in, the desk I sit on (that is made of fiberboard, gives me skin eruption, so I put my arms on a towel), I can’t wear jewelry… just anything is sensitive. I often feel like a whiner, but I know I am not one, I do not even tell people about this. But of course you can’t really hide HS from others all of the time.

        1. Twilight says:


          About your mother….some will never understand. I do believe many are HSP, I am glad your here with those that understand what it is like.


          I am very sensitive to my environment, certain fabrics irrate my skin, if I wear jewelry it has to be gold and not fake, water sensitivity to, medication affect me strangely, electronics can be affected, weather affects me, places etc. All my senses have always been heightened.

          1. Jasmine says:

            Good to know I’m not alone! 😘
            I wonder if it’s hereditary? I have 2 aunts that also are HSP.

          2. Twilight says:

            Hello Jasmine

            Have you researched HSP, not just looked up the test and taken it? You will find your answers to those questions.

            I do believe the majority of people are HSP, and due to this they make excellent targets for HGs kind.

          3. Jasmine says:

            Thank you Twilight. I will delve deeper into the subject. I’ve always known I was “overly sensitive” as my family likes to say. It’s hard to miss the signs if one knows one self, but I never bothered to read too much.
            I think I read somewhere that a person could be an empath OR an HSP. Since I was reading about empathy at the time, I shelved it. Time to crack the books!

      5. Brian says:

        I scored 21
        If you want to troll me, play some loud music in an enclosed space like a car.
        I can take most violence on TV but game of thrones was too much.

        HG I don’t know if someone has asked you this before…
        If you are not really into music, it doesn’t really move you, why is Depeche Mode your favourite band?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Because it proves a useful conduit for me.

      6. Brian says:

        Thanks HG I’ve had that question on the back of my mind for several months 😀

      7. Brian says:

        oops that was a criticism. I had it on the FRONT of my mind 😉

      8. Jenna says:

        I just took the test. I scored 25. I am particularly sensitive to smells. I feel nauseous when someone is wearing too much perfume, for example. I will actually have to leave early if this is the case. I cannot go on grp vacations becoz there is no alone time. I need to be alone everyday. I become overwhelmed with too much stimuli.

        1. Jasmine says:

          LOL. this made me laugh Jenna. My kid gets so upset with me when I *sniff, sniff* … she knows me well…

    2. Bibi says:

      Blank, are you an HSP? I am one too. I took the test and scored like 25 out of 26. LOL

      The one exception was I will never turn away a violent film if it offers me good art.

      I have been wondering how many others here might be HSP.

      1. Jasmine says:

        Bibi, there’s a test too? Oooo… I’ll have to Google that too. Ty. Always good to know info!

      2. Jasmine says:

        Oops. Found it. I scored 24. (I like exciting flicks too! ) 🙂

        1. Caroline says:

          I was curious what “HSP” was, so went online to see… found the test, took it – got a 24 too.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            I scored 1.

          2. Caroline says:

            Really? What, pray tell, was the ONE? (Was it the loud noises question?)

          3. HG Tudor says:

            No. I become annoyed if people try to make me do too many things – that of course is attempting to control me which must be rejected. Of course my response to that is different to that of someone who is described as an HSP.

          4. Twilight says:

            Ha ha I am so not surprised HG. Yet 1 suits you 😉 like in #1

          5. HG Tudor says:

            Damn right.

          6. Caroline says:

            Ohhhh….that totally makes sense. But you *could* look at it like they regard you so highly that they seek out your amazing capabilities – and will then praise your efforts to others, HG.


            (I’ll just slink away now… I’m in enough trouble with my last attempt to finagle a narcissist).

          7. Jasmine says:

            Hg, That’s very interesting.
            Mind if I ask which one?

          8. HG Tudor says:

            See my answer to Caroline.

          9. Jasmine says:

            Hg, I found some of the questions redundant. But your answer makes perfect sense. Thank you for sharing

          10. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome.

          11. K says:

            You scored a 1…ha ha ha, well that isn’t shocking at all, HG.

            And BTW, I am not surprised there are mid-rangers on the mumsnet; they really are ubiquitous.

          12. HG Tudor says:

            Indeed they are and it is an ideal environment for them to frequent.

          13. Twilight says:


            I have spent some time observing there and found it to be interesting.

          14. K says:

            Well, perhaps I need to take a look at it and see what it is all about, Twilight.

          15. Twilight says:


            Ha ha do, spread the word more need to learn of HG and be exposed to his knowledge.

          16. K says:

            I really like what you wrote about your name; that brief moment of balance that we look for it in each other, only to have it elude us both.

            It is the time dark and light come together and for a brief moment there is balance.

          17. Twilight says:

            Thank you K

            It is the only time within a Twilight dream I can be with a man I fell in love with so long ago, he haunts my dreams to this day.
            Sorry I am feeling very emotional at the moment

          18. K says:

            Don’t apologize, Twilight, Sometimes, the memories of false love ghost through my thoughts and I was suddenly overwhelmed with sorrow when I RSVPed. We really are HSPs; we both felt strongly emotional regarding your comment.

            Dealing with narcs at work sounds dreadful but being in a position to do something about it sounds hopeful. They can be so intractable.

          19. Twilight says:


            The dream is a good one,and one I welcome.

          20. K says:

            Sometimes, I dream that he isn’t a narcissist and he loves me and the children…only for a moment and then I let go.

          21. Twilight says:


            I understand, I used to do that with my husband then wake to a nightmare I couldn’t escape from.
            When he died I was finally free from him and his family.

          22. Caroline says:

            I know you’re addressing K, but your comment popped out at me…maybe because “my” narcissist is doing everything right now but carrier pigeon to break my NC, and the last conversation he had with me, he talked about me “haunting” him since I left him years ago… the guy wants me back in a permanent sense — no question about it. It’s actually pretty damn scary. The fear is much worse than the emotional surge-thrill. My palms are actually sweaty, no joke.

            I thought I could keep him at friendship bay (stupid)… and while I was interacting with him (before reinstating NC), I was feeling non-infected. But he definitely bit me (figuratively, girls), and now all the things he recently said + all my history with him is swirling around (on and off) in my mind + heart now. Son of a gun…I can’t believe it. I thought I was way past this. But it goes deep.

            Anyway, that is why I said I can relate to your twilight light/dark balance thought. I so get it. I don’t have a pat answer for you, but I DO know these narcissistic guys aren’t good for us, so kudos to you for staying NC. But I feel ya, on your emotions being pinged… you will have moments like this… keep being strong. They always bring pain and chaos, unfortunately. Always.

            Let yourself have that “dream” minute… but don’t linger on it too long. I know of what I speak, unfortunately.

            Oh, look…A little pigeon just slammed into my window. (lol)

          23. Twilight says:

            Hello Caroline

            I tried to reply once and not sure if it went through.

            The dream is a good one.

            I do understand what it is like to have them trying to break NC. I raised that bar so high and he still comes. I really made my ex angry and he still wants vengeance or he wants something else, either way he isn’t getting anything from me but silence. The last time it was hard not to respond due to the situation he used. I came very close to breaking NC. It is not because I am in love with him still, even thou I still feel love for him. It was a obligation.

          24. Caroline says:

            Thanks for your reply, Twilight. 🙂

            I hear ya…. mine has called on-and-off through the years, but I never called him back until this past year, and that was because of him sounding so awful in a voicemail, when he had just filed for divorce, after having had a major medical issue that he deal with for a year. So that led to my being there for him as a long-distance listening ear as he went through court, etc. stuff (which I thought was awful/stressful for him at the time, but thanks to HG, I now realize he got fuel from)… so my sense of obligation/empathy led me into this current mess!

            Now he *is* divorced, and apparently, he’s had it in his mind that I was the Candidate all along. He could easily be with any number of women where he lives – of this I know. But he seems stuck on me, the empath that I am… and I swear the more I deny him, the more he wants me. But I can’t exactly play along to see if he loses some interest, because 1) My last harebrained scheme to break NC and re-emphasize my stance of friendship with him (which is what *I* was being all along) blew up in my face and 2) He doesn’t live close to me, which is a godsend, but now he’s set up business + leisure trips on a fairly regular basis where he will drive through my area… so I have to have the firmest NC there is, until he eventually gives up.

            Gah. He’s much more unpredictable (and narcissistically worse) than when I was dating him.

            I’m being strong, but he taps into the big weakness of mine: guilt. This is false guilt, but it’s the hardest part for me.

          25. Twilight says:


            Silence says just as much as anything you could say to him, actually I believe it says more.

            We are our worst enemies at times, our emotional thinking is the worst con artist there is, not them. Easier to blame them, now they do know how to flip those switches to activate this. Then it does all the work for them.

          26. Caroline says:

            So very true, Miss Twilight. As stressful as this is right now, I’m learning things about myself that are quite beneficial… so it’s not all bad. I’m now hiding my switch from him… but I need to work on re-wiring my switch so he can’t turn it on at all. <And I don't mean that in a dirty way, but it sure sounds like it, lol!

          27. Twilight says:


            No that didn’t sound dirty.

            Rewiring is actually what needs to be done, it is easier if one can be brutally truthful with oneself and find the root cause of things, that is when true healing begins. It can be a very painful process and one must discover it themselves, being told what it is only activates the defense mechanism one has wired into themselves.

          28. Twilight says:

            Hello Caroline

            Highly Sensitive Person

          29. Caroline says:

            Hello, Miss Twilight. 🙂 Love your screen name – my absolute fav time of day…because it’s so calming.

          30. Twilight says:

            Hello Caroline

            Thank you.
            The Twilight is a very calming time for me to, and has a special meaning.
            It is the time dark and light come together and for a brief moment there is balance.

          31. Jasmine says:

            That’s a beautiful analogy ❤
            I love just before. That moment when the whole yard turns yellow. So wonderfully magical
            My daughter is convinced I have bewitched our home, since she’s never spied it elsewhere.

          32. Caroline says:

            Deep, Twilight… and get what you mean by that, from my own experience.

      3. Catherine says:

        Me too; raising a hand on HSP. I’ve always been told that I’m way too sensitive and I score high on that test. I need lots of time alone to recharge my batteries; I can’t spend too much time with anyone without getting worn out and tired; I love being alone; all the impressions around me leave me staggering sometimes, and I’m overly sensitive to others feelings and applying too much time thinking and rethinking in an emotional way just about anything in my life. Phew! I got tired just writing this;)

      4. Blank says:

        Bibi, I assume there must be a lot of HSP here. I scored about the same as you. There was one question I remember that I didn’t know; if my parents considered me to be shy. I remember I always had to do things for my sister (at the age of 6-12), because she was either afraid or shy. But being shy is not the same as being HSP. There is a lot of misunderstanding with all these terms.
        My mother told my MIL (the first time they met) that I was very unstable. My MIL told me this a few years later (stating this was not a decent act of my mother). And this ‘being unstable’ got stuck in my mind, causing me to always doubt myself when living with my Nex and making me search the internet to find out what disorder I could have.
        The HSP website, as well as the Psychology site that made me aware of NPD, made me end up here. Wow, the clarity it gave me, not only about the narcs, but also about myself.
        About violence Bibi, I can watch violent films, like the Bruce Willis films, because that is all obviously fake. But as soon as a film really gets under your skin (usually thrillers) and there is abuse or violence, I have a real hard time watching it (and I’ll dream about it).

      5. Blank says:

        Ha ha ha, HG scored 1, what a surprise! 🙂 And now… which ‘one’ HG?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Please see the answer given to Caroline.

      6. Blank says:

        Sorry HG, asking double questions now..

        1. HG Tudor says:

          No need to apologise, your curiosity is expected and welcomed.

      7. narc affair says:

        Hg …thats funny scoring 1 lol but makes sense being a narcissist.

        Ive had two psychologists tell me i was an hsp. One of the psychologists who first told me was also an hsp the other who was a clinical psychologist and was very active in my church at the time im certain was a narcissist.
        When i was first told i was an hsp i had no clue what that was but she suggested a few books to read. Also theres a local group for hsps but i never did join. I was told people who are hsps have almost a 6th spiritual sense which others do not. I would say maybe a heightened type of empath. I know for myself ive had psychic type episodes which i dont discuss with anyone bc people look at you like youre crazy. Personally i dont like being an hsp. I like being an empath but being an hsp can be very stressful and anxiety producing. For instance i found out a family i indirectly knew their twin daughters of triplets were killed in a bad highway accident this past december and for a week ive not been able to get it off my mind what their family is going thru and their last moments etc. Its like a black cloud and very heavy. Its great to be empathetic but as an hsp i find it to be too intense at times and a hinderance.

      8. Bibi says:

        Everyone took the test. HG that is hilarious you got only 1. Haha!

        It was actually my mom years ago who told me she thought I was HSP. I was like, Huh? WTF is that?

        This is before I even knew anything about narcissists, empaths, etc. When she comes over she is always complaining how my house is too dim. I don’t like fluorescent lights.

        I startle easily. My coworkers used to sneak up on me all the time and I would scream and they thought it was hilarious. I thought it was funny too, but now I know there is a reason for it.

        HG the fact that you’re so opposite is one of the reasons your kind is very appealing to us HSPs, because you’re exciting and full of energy.

        This is of course, before knowing the details of your kind. No one consciously says, ‘I am looking for a nice sociopath to date.’

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Indeed they do not Bibi.

        2. Jasmine says:

          Funny bibi! Yes i think I’ve had more then my share of sociopaths and the like!
          My dad refers to my house as a “cave” lol. I think it’s because their condo is a wall of Windows in the sky, but it’s true, I do prefer things dim. Bright lights hurt my eyes. I avoid fluorescent lights like the plague! They’ll bring on a migraine

      9. narc affair says:

        Hg …thats funny scoring 1 lol but makes sense being a narcissist.

        Ive had two psychologists tell me i was an hsp. One of the psychologists who first told me was also an hsp the other who was a clinical psychologist and was very active in my church at the time im certain was a narcissist.
        When i was first told i was an hsp i had no clue what that was but she suggested a few books to read. Also theres a local group for hsps but i never did join. I was told people who are hsps have almost a 6th spiritual sense which others do not. I would say maybe a heightened type of empath. I know for myself ive had psychic type episodes which i dont discuss with anyone bc people look at you like youre crazy. Personally i dont like being an hsp. I like being an empath but being an hsp can be very stressful and anxiety producing. For instance i found out a family i indirectly knew their twin daughters of triplets were killed in a bad highway accident this past december and for a week ive not been able to get it off my mind what their family is going thru and their last moments etc. Its like a black cloud and very heavy. Its great to be empathetic but as an hsp i find it to be too intense at times and a hinderance.

  7. Arthur says:

    That’s me.

  8. Bekah B says:

    This is me.. I am a carrier empath.. I have a strong sense of duty towards everything I tackle in life.. I continue to strive until I get it done.. And if I find that my efforts have not totally resolved an issue, I switch to another tactic in hopes of still trying to resolve the very same issue.. I never give up.. Ever.. Very grounded.. Very practical.. Wow, this was a great article..

    1. Bibi says:

      You are like little comfort angels.

      1. Bekah B says:

        Yes, indeed.. Especially to a upper mid-range narcissist that didn’t have his finances in order.. I have paid the price for my ways.. Figuratively and Literally..

  9. Jasmine says:

    I resonate with all of them. Haha… do you have a rainbow empath?

    1. Caroline says:

      I don’t know what I am either, Jasmine. To the best of my ability to discern, I am *not* a Savior Empath, nor am I a Geyser Empath, though I do have a few traits of both. I seem to be a weird combo of a Magnet + a Carrier Empath… which seems like that would be impossible, but my qualities really are evenly split between the two. I’m just… well, an odd empath.

      What’s also weird is that the narcissist (my ex-BF) is equally aligned between being an UMR and a Lower Greater. We were destined to be like rocket fire… and I am now reallllllly paying for my temporary breach in NC.

      1. Jasmine says:

        I completely understand. I can see myself in all the empath categories and my EX (though mainly mr) has qualities of all 3. Even the cadres as well.
        It’s really quite perplexing. Especially when one is trying to discern for future references! I need to know what I attract and how I’m viewed, so I can best protect myself.
        Even if this one turns out to be victim (as I suspect) I KNOW I’ve attracted somatic and cerebral too. Lessor, mid-range, possible greater.. (though he may have just been a psychopath.) Eieieie… So confusing!
        So sorry to hear things are bad on the home front. Be brave! Be fearless! XO Kick ass

      2. Bibi says:

        I am with you guys. Thus far, I seem to be a dirty guilt laden geyser. Not a carrier, not a saviour, not so much a magnet, not a codependent, (way too hard headed and needing to be right all the time).

        ‘Odd empath.’ I like that. My personality type is INFJ. They’re known to be very sensitive yet stubborn when it comes to their ideals/what they believe is right.

        When someone tramples on that, my narcissist side comes out and stomps back hard.

        1. Caroline says:

          Hey, Bibi…I know what we are! We’re the “Combo Pack Value Meal Empaths.” 🙂 (but we’re not cheap).

  10. Bibi says:

    These are nice people. I have an image of my school nurse when I was in elementary school.

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