Why Has He Gone Back?



Think back to that glorious time when you were courted by the narcissist who ensnared you. Amidst the delight and excitement of that powerful and dizzying seduction there is a good chance that mention was made of his or her ex. That person was the devil incarnate weren’t they? They were an abuser, a drunk, an addict, a gold-digger, a gambler, never worked, a sponger, never helped around the house, never helped with the children, bad-tempered, unsociable, awkward, played video games all day and so on. No doubt your narcissist’s ex was one or more of those things. They were smeared to you from the off.

“He is just plain evil.”

“She is utterly bat shit crazy.”

“You won’t want to meet her; she is a fruit loop.”

“He is violent and nasty. Charming on the outside but horrible on the inside.”

A hundred different ways to ensure that you thought ill of the predecessor ex and more highly of us. Praise for having broken free, sympathy for what we endured, encouragement for being with you. The fuel flowed as we recounted tale after tale of terrible treatment. All of this was told after we had jettisoned this person as we embedded you into our world.

It may even have been the case that you commenced an affair with us. We admitted we were married, lived with somebody or in a relationship but a combination of our charismatic magnetism and the tales of woe about how our partner was horrible and abusive meant that you saw somebody wonderful in need of your love and you felt no real concerns at interfering in our relationship. After all, how many times did we tell you that we never had sex with them anymore, that we did not even share a bed, how we were only together for the sake of the children and a hundred other reasons that are given to entice you and reassure you that it is you we want. We may well have even left our partner to be with you. You triumphed. Good overcame evil as you ensured that we had the support, courage and determination to escape their horrible treatment of us. You had us to yourself and the golden period could truly commence.

Sometime later, it might be weeks, it could be months and possibly even years, something strange happened.

We went back.

You were unceremoniously dropped and we returned to the arms of the ex-partner once again. How could this be so? How could we return to someone so horrible, so abusive, so evil? How could we go back to this person about whom we told you so many stories of their abusive behaviour and ugly character? How could we return after you rescued us from them? How could we do this after everything you have done for us? Whereas the ex was horrible, you were delightful, the ex did not care, you never stopped caring and where the ex was cruel, you were wonderful. You helped us through the separation and you shielded us when the savage ex came after us, blaming you for breaking a happy (ha!) marriage up. You heard their protestations that you turned their partner’s head, whispered lies about them so as to turn their partner against the ex. You remember how astonished you were at the time that someone would have the audacity to behave in such an abusive manner and then accuse you of doing the things that they engaged in. This ex was just as we described wasn’t she? Manipulative, vicious and blaming everybody else but herself. Just as we had warned you, she behaved exactly to type. She even accused us of certain things but you did not believe them because we had already forewarned you that this was something she would do. Try to make you think that we were the abusive one in order to deflect attention from what she was really like. How on earth could we go back to this liar, this cheat, this abuser, this evil and horrible person? It just made no sense.

In some instances, you received no answer. Our number had changed. We moved back in with this person at a place you don’t know. We blocked you on social media, those friends you thought you had made in our circles shunned you or just told you to accept that these things happen and to move on. But you cannot. You cannot fathom out why someone could do this. Firstly, why return to an abuser? Secondly, why drop someone wonderful like you who we had professed a real and perfect love for? Nothing made sense anymore.

You might have been able to confront us to try and find out why on earth we have behaved in this way. You may have been given a sole opportunity to state your case and to find out why we have done this and left you devastated. You will have been told things such as: –

“I knew that I really did love them. You helped me realise that and for that you have my gratitude.”

“She promised to change and I thought she deserved that chance.”

“I did it for the sake of the children rather than my own happiness.”

“We had been together for twenty years. I realised I could not do that to her.”

You will have argued against these comments. You will have tried to persuade us in order to get us back again. No doubt you said things to each of the above comments, like these: –

You don’t love her. How can you love someone who has abused you for such a long time? You have done the hard bit, getting away from her. You cannot go back.”


“She won’t change. Why would she? You said it yourself she has promised this before and nothing has happened.”


“If you did the right thing for your children you would not expose them to such a toxic atmosphere as the one you described between you and her.”


“She has you under complete control. You don’t know anything other than her abusive ways and you have accepted them. You don’t have to do that. I can help you.”

Your desperate and well-intentioned pleas and reasoning failed. The reason why is because when we said each of the comments above, this is what we really meant.

“I knew that I really did love her. You helped me realise that and for that you have my gratitude.”

“You weren’t the fuel I thought you would be and I realised the fuel I would get from going back and hoovering my ex and seeking another chance would outweigh what you were giving me and it worked. But don’t worry. I am not going to get rid of you just yet. I have organised a wonderful triangulation for me, you and her that will carry on through the reconciliation. It will be like we are having an affair (having an affair again). How exciting. How fuel-laden”

“She promised to change and I thought she deserved that chance.”

“I promised to change. That hoovered her back in. It always does and she fell for it and that fuel is better than yours.”

“I did it for the sake of the children rather than my own happiness.”

“I saw some cracks in the façade and realised that people actually might turn against me. I need that façade so I have to sacrifice you instead. You won’t realise this but I have told her, our families and friends that you are a stalker and you were trying to blackmail me. They understand. The façade is intact. You are expendable.”


“We had been together for twenty years. I realised I could not do that to her.”

“I know her inside out and I know that no matter how many times I do this she will always take me back and give me powerful hoover fuel. I know I told you that you were the only one I have left her for. That wasn’t true. You are nothing special. I have done it many times before and I will do it again. I might do it again with you if you are foolish enough to give me another chance. It is all good fuel.”

If you are reeling from the stunning revelation that we have returned to the ex that was labelled as horrible and abusive. If you are unable to comprehend why we would do this, I understand. I understand that it truly makes no sense when looked at from your perspective. The reality is however they were never abusive. I am the abuser. I used you as I used my partner in order to get fuel. I projected my behaviours onto them and you lapped it all up, giving me positive fuel and negative fuel from her as I triangulated you with her. I may not have gone back, but the quality of the hoover fuel and the ease by which I can achieve it makes it irresistible. I will come back to you again and you will let me because you have tasted the golden period. You still believe she is the bitch and the two of you will fight over me blaming one another rather than realise that I am to the blame. I planned it. I orchestrated it. I am the puppet master.

41 thoughts on “Why Has He Gone Back?

  1. Kellie Mccoey says:


  2. BlueOcean says:

    From a Danish newspaper today: ”A mental investigation by Peter Madsen finds that Peter Madsen appears highly untrustworthy. Overall, he appears to be perverted and very sexually deviating. He is normally gifted and not psychotic. The study concludes that he is “very deviating, with narcissistic and psychopathic features”. He is described as a pathological liar with a “smooth and superficial charm”. He is emotionally impaired and, according to the study, shows “serious lack of empathy, anger and guilt”. When his divergent personality is compared with his deviant sexuality, according to the mental investigation, Peter Madsen represents – if he is judged – a danger to the life, body and freedom of others.”

    1. K says:

      I think Peter Madsen is responsible for Kim Walls death and it seems like he may be a psychopath.

      1. BlueOcean says:

        Yes he is with both narcissistic and psychopathic traits, it has been concluded and combined with a somatic profile including deviant sexuality. Another defense attorney has commented on the fact that they presented this info at the start, as a ‘smart move’ and that normally such info is provided when measuring a punishment, at the end of a trial. However I would say that this attorney does not really understand what it is all about, since such a profile explains if not all then most and simply cannot be ignored in this context. It is scary how quickly one can recognise these traits even at a distance, after previous long-term exposure to one.

        1. K says:


          I remember reading about Kim Wall’s murder in the paper and I immediately thought Peter Madsen was disordered and most likely responsible for her death. His narcissistic/psychopathic traits should be blatantly obvious to the courts, however, you are right, his attorney and many others do not always understand what they are truly dealing with.

          Martin Shkreli just got 7-years for fraud and this statement below is very telling.

          “He doesn’t think that he did anything wrong because he thinks he’s different,” said prosecutor Jacquelyn Kasulis during the sentencing. “He thinks he’s better than everybody else and the rules don’t apply to him.”

  3. BlueOcean says:

    Dear HG Tudor – not in relation to this text in particular, but have you read about the case in Danish court in which a man Peter Madsen is accused of brutally and sadistic torturing and murdering a woman inside his submarine? Today, the case went to court, and it has today been revealed to the public that this man has been diagnosed with severe psychopathic and narcissistic traits, following a psychological evaluation, following the events. From the very first time however, I read about this man, back in August 2017 when it happened, the things he said, the cool calm and collectedness he appeared to have when entering the shore from his drowned submarine, all of his stories about where the woman was and then what happened to her, that kept changing, etc, etc, I could tell what this man was all about. It is really scary to know this side of certain human natures. Sometimes I wish one could go back to not knowing anything. On the other hand I guess I should be thankful to be in the know. However, since so many people really still are not, I still feel very alone with all this knowledge. Thank you so much for your site that at least carries consolation and definitely a lot of understanding to what at first appears like the ultimate madness and understanding about what evilness can be like and that it is right amongst us.

  4. BurntKrispyKeen says:

    Oh my, Tiddlywink… he is a busy man! Mine was too; it is an obsession, so it seems, for them to get the validation they crave. I even once told mine that if he wants to be the busy bachelor who dates multiple women, do it, but don’t deceive. I told him he could probably find plenty of chicks who would date him knowing he was also seeing others, but I wouldn’t be one of those girls.

    It’s the deception of making another believe that she’s the one and only that is most cruel.

    But I think they do it, Tiddlywink, because they don’t want the type of girl who’d be satisfied with a man who plays the field. They want women of quality. And of course, they want our dedication to them even though they can’t seem to return the favor.

    Mine would say that he could barely manage me let alone another. But like yours, there were many others.

    And it’s the same thing with mine… incredibly charming, can talk to anyone, fit into any situation or rub elbows with any person from any socioeconomic status. He loved to mingle with a variety of folks. He can get down and low with locker room talk, playing the cool rock-n-roll drummer within his band, or he can wear that tightly knotted tie and shiny shoes and make the upper crust never guess he likes to say the words motherfucker and pussy as often as an auctioneer yells “sold.” He uses ma’am to the point where I’ve heard a woman say, “Please don’t call me that; it makes me feel old.” He replied. “Oh, I am sorry ma’am. I did not intend to offend you. How do you prefer I address you?”

    Then he could change in a New York minute. Once, we were at a casual event with folks from all ages. He looked around the room and saw three teenage boys huddled together. He pointed them out to me, while laughing… “Look at these boys over here. They’re trying but they clearly don’t know what they are doing. They couldn’t get pussy around here if they were selling it on a stick.” It was almost as if he wanted to go over and give the young lads a tip or two… because his expertise is too fine not to share since he’s “dated a lot of women.” But he has only been intimate with a select few. (That was for my benefit since he knows I take intimacy seriously and have tried to be selective my whole life. Well, I tried. He helped me realize that my selective taste wasn’t so selective after all.)

    But Tiddlywink, yours has really put you through it. Yours must be a somatic… do you think?
    I’m pretty sure mine is an elite as the cerebral aspect is very important to him, but if I had to break it down, I’d guess he’s 70% somatic – 30% cerebral. But he could swap those stats in a minute if I misspoke or was unaware of something he deemed essential to know. He became all stuffy and proper, reminding me that no one speaks in the manner that he does. And he was right. There’s really nobody like him… or yours Tiddlywink… other than their fellow narcissists, of course.

    For yours to be hiding his relationship with his wife amongst all of the others… well let’s just say that I am glad you saw his wanker ways before more time passed.

    So be proud of that six month stretch you have going on Tiddlywink. I haven’t seen mine in about 10 months, even though he’s tried. And the sickest part… I still miss him. Well, parts of him. It’s the fake parts I miss the most.

  5. Tiddlywink says:

    …Hi BurntKrispyKeen

    Yes I absolutely think that!! My narc would drop girl’s names randomly in the conversation, or produce photos randomly to get a reaction from me so that i would ask who they were and he would get fuel because I would be jealous. I remember at the outset he said he had many female friends – this was when I first met him. He asked if it was ok to have alot of female friends, and at the time I thought no problem, but he always kept going on about one woman in particular.. after which the penny dropped in that he was ‘in a relationship’ with her (i found this out on another of his fb profiles using a different version of his name). I almost freaked because, like u, he had always said that I was the only one and there is no one else… oh and this is of course when i also thought his wife and him were separated, but that turned out to be yet another lie.. he still is together with her and the other one (in a relationship) plus at least another DLS and god knows how many others.. He must spend all day and night on his phone tracking down women texting, sexting and no doubt vid sex.. he is a whore and what really annoys me is that he is still getting away with it and woos and charms everyone into thinking he is Mr lovely nice guy. I am sure though, although he is good looking and outwardly confident, deep down he is very insecure and just wants justification about how wonderful he is. I remember about the 3rd time he called me, and said ‘do you miss me, and do you want to have my baby”? Like what?? i hardly knew him.. he such a wanker… but my mind still gets angry even though I havent talked to him for 6 months.. I think it is because he is still with his wife but using others as well..and they all think he is the ants pants…

  6. Perse@schoolofhardnarcs.edu says:

    Thank you,

    I used to think it was just more head games, when I couldn’t do anything right, to switching to I was wonderful, again.

    And when he kept up the loving behavior, i would try to figure out what i might have done right.

    Was never gonna happen, it’s his crazy, not mine.

    Of course, it didn’t last

    1. Caroline says:

      YOU are wonderfully loveable + special…HE could not keep up. He could not attain WHO YOU ARE. It was an impossible task for him to achieve, with any semblance of authenticity.


  7. Perseschoolofhardnarcs says:


    Do you ever go back to thinking a former partner was “The One”?

    If not, do you not find it physically repulsive to engage with them again, to gain positive fuel after getting negative fuel from them?

    Is being painted white different from the initial idealization?

    I would think once devalued, (IPPS or IPSS) we are never quite as good as we once were in the narcissist view.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I do not, as I am Nomadic.
      No I do not.
      Largely no – there will be a difference in approach from the initial seduction to later reinstating a golden period, but the outlook remains the same, namely white.

      1. Agnes says:

        What are the signs that narc starts to paint victim white? And what is the victims reaction? I would be shocked if my ex narc started being nice to me all of the sudden, after painting me black and telling me all these horrible things. I think I wouldnt buy it, I couldnt trust him once again. This is the difference between me and the narcissist – I couldnt paint him white after seeing his blackness.For me It would be emotionally impossible.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Behaving in a benign manner towards you, talking about you to others in similar terms.

      2. Sniglet says:

        It is interesting how you have started describing yourself as nomadic, lately. The word stands out more. It has left an impression for some reason. Just an observation.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Whilst the word has indeed been used more recently, that is only because it has only arisen recently in the context of questions. For the avoidance of doubt, I have not recently started to see myself as Nomadic or indeed behave that way – it has always been the case.

        2. NarcAngel says:

          Funny that. When a woman is nomadic she is labelled a whore.

      3. Sniglet says:

        For clarity, do you call yourself Nomadic because you move from woman to woman (ie NA’s ‘whore’ regency) and/or also because you travel from location to location and live in many places for extended periods of time?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I use the term with regard to relationships as per the classes. (It is coincidental that I move around a lot).

    2. BurntKrispyKeen says:

      Oooh… excellent questions, Perse.
      And thank you for responding to her HG.
      I would have thought a reunion could never be the same for a narcissist…. not even close. Maybe that’s more about me though, since I’m the empath who holds a grudge. (I have more streaks than just a dirty one.)

      Thank you both for that interesting tidbit.

      Perse, I will never forget you.

      I had posted my first-ever public question here about narcissism and was pleased when HG responded, followed with a remark from Tappan Zee. It was the start of me accepting what I needed to embrace. But you were the first to reach out to me that night I was posting all about my ordeal… off to the side, not even knowing if anyone would notice. I had kept my situation as secret as I could out of shame and embarrassment. I never told anyone within my circle about the secrets of his horrible ways. So a part of me was just looking for a place to say it out loud, even if only to myself. I was so distraught.

      Your words of wisdom gave me much comfort. Perse. I’ve never told you that, but you have no idea. The curious questions you just asked are something I’ve wondered myself, but it also reminded me that I should take a moment to thank you…

      You taking the time to reach out to me in time of need was much appreciated, Perse… more so than you know.

      And having a place to safely do that… I don’t really know how to say it? It just means a lot.

      1. Perse@schoolofhardnarcs.edu says:

        My vision just got watery, and I could feel my cheeks start to blush! You are very welcome! I’m glad that it helped you.

        I was, of course, following my trait of wanting to relieve the pain of another, partly because i feel it, too. Still, I’m gratified.
        I’m sure you have been there, too, taking someones hand for the moment they need it. Paying it forward is the best repayment. (Empath thought fuel 😉 )

        As for the safe place, we have HG to thank for that.
        I’m glad it’s here for anyone that needs it.


  8. K says:

    It is rare for the narcissist to blow hot and cold during the seduction of an IPPS, BKK. If you were an IPPS maybe you were in the devaluation period (triangulation), however, if you were an IPSS then it could a corrective devaluation.

    1. BurntKrispyKeen says:

      I don’t know, K. I never could figure it out. During seduction, he was incredibly attentive, bringing me gifts, flattering me with compliments, responding to me all day long… the usual Golden Period we all experienced. But this was when he was pursuing me before I had been physically intimate with him, during our so-called friendship. He had been letting me know that he wanted more. I was being resistant. Is this what you mean by corrective devaluation?

      It felt like he was trying to make me jealous, but he would never admit to that. So maybe he was upset because I was trying to take my time with him?

      It was such a turn-off, him showing me those videos. Yet here I sit, still burning from his sting. So I can’t say that he didn’t eventually find a way to get to me. I will forever listen to my instincts. I’m just afraid that when I do decide to move on, I won’t get anywhere because every tiny mistake a potential poor chap might make will seem like a red flag to me. I’m afraid I won’t ever be able to say “yes” again because my narcissist-induced wounds will be screaming, “Hell No!”

      They really do damage us.

      1. K says:

        Ok, BKK, I did some research and this makes sense to me:

        “Accordingly, a secondary source will enjoy a lengthy golden period. They may not be ever be devalued. If they fail to provide fuel, become disloyal and fail to do what the narcissist wants, they may be devalued but usually they will be immediately discarded”. This quote is from What Am I to Him.

        It seems like he wanted to promote you from NISS to IPSS and he did not like your resistance (you wanted to take your time with him). I think you are right; he painted you black for your treachery and punished you by showing you those videos for fuel (hurt/jealousy) and to maintain superiority.


        They most certainly do damage us. Sometimes, I don’t trust myself and I see red flags everywhere. There is a chap that I like, but I am so paranoid that I have him painted as a somatic mid-range…where’s the nunnery?

      2. BurntKrispyKeen says:

        Thank you K for responding. There is much to learn as narcissism is one complex and frustrating subject, so I appreciate you taking the time to help me decipher this.

        Of course, my narcissist acted as though he wanted me as his primary source, his “one and only.” He gave me a key to his place to “prove” his loyalty. So, I’m pretty certain there wasn’t another primary source, but I eventually found out there were MANY IPSS’s scattered about the tri-state region.

        Once upon a time, he was incredibly attentive, seemingly always available and accounted for, so he must have placed them on the shelf? (But that’s when we started to have problems… when he pulled out his little step stool to reach for one.) He’d start to not answer his phone, then distance himself, then go MIA, even if only for a few hours. When I’d confront him, it was the… oh, baby, baby, baby kind of talk. You know, the usual plausable excuses that left plenty of room for doubt. His stories held just enough reasonable fact that I thought, “Well, that COULD be the case.” Usually, there’d be a component of truth. Such as… he really was in his parent’s neighborhood, but his parents weren’t the only visit he made.

        When I finally found enough evidence to confront him, he went silent as he tried to portray being gravely wounded by my mistrust. How could I not trust him? You know the drill; we’ve all lived it.

        Which is why it makes moving on so difficult.

        So your nunnery comment was an option I understand. I chuckled as the thought of joining as it has a certain appeal. If I could actually sustain abstinence long enough to take the veil, I can see how being tucked away at a convent might be the sabbatical I need. Actually, the abstinence might not be so difficult after all. I’ve already held myself back long enough that I could have participated in a few overseas mission trips. I might ought to test the waters before committing to the nunnery.

        But I’m starting to want to get my toes wet for another reason. Yet I simply need to learn how to trust again. I truly don’t know how? But I don’t want to allow myself to stay bitter for so long that it becomes my standard trait… because I do know that there are a lot of kind souls to be discovered, even if they are a bit hard to find.

        Soooo, this chap who has sparked your interest… any solid potential there?

        It’s difficult to tell, though, isn’t? Since we all have a streak of narcissism and considering that basically all men are somatic… how does a woman know for sure? Once burnt, when things start to heat up, the ole PTS kicks in full force. Everything seems to be a trigger and it frightens me that I might run off a man before he has a fair chance.

        But it sounds as if this fellow has made a bit of a soft spot. I do hope he’s not brushed heavily with narcissism so you can, at the very least, enjoy his company. And perhaps he’s just a regular guy who deserves a fair chance? (One day at a time, right?)

        So best wishes to you there, K. Please do keep me posted as I’d love to know more about how you’re moving forward. I need all the advice I can get. Besides, the curious empathetic side of me can’t resist a few juicy details of a potential romance.

        This is exciting K!

        1. K says:

          You are welcome BKK.

          It is like a puzzle and we have to figure it out. Your narc had many IPSSs and once your golden period ended he started to devalue you and hoover the IPSSs so he could get both negative and positive fuel. As time goes by, it gets much easier to move on, but it is a painful journey.

          Nunneries are full of religious narcs so I have changed my mind on that idea; I will just be a hermit for now. I had a nightmare about the chap, telling him he was gaslighting and blame shifting me and I woke up a bit anxious so I won’t be pursuing him, however, if things change I will alert you post-haste.

          Romance is exciting…but dangerous.

  9. BurntKrispyKeen says:

    He described his ex-wife using many of the exact phrases you listed. He often spoke of women from his past, even during his early pursuit of me, but he always let me know that I was the special one…. the one. (I regret any excuse I told myself to overlook his rudeness and downplay his bragging.)

    One evening, he whipped out his phone and showed me two reasonably innocent videos of ex-girlfriends. One was dancing, prancing around while they were out on the town. The other video showed another woman telling a story after she clearly had too much wine. It was an awkward moment for me. I didn’t have a response. He noticed that it made me uncomfortable, so he smiled and sweetly said that he only showed me the videos because he thought they were funny and was hoping we could share a laugh.

    I think he was trying to guage my reaction, make me jealous and test my limits… but I never fully understood his intention. Is that a common practice, HG, to show actual images of the ex during our seduction period?

    1. Tiddlywink says:

      Hi BurntKrispyKeen.. thank you for your kind words.. my ex narc is such a man whore seriously.. and when his mask slipped i cannot explain the devastating devaluation of me that followed.. the name calling, the “no one will ever want you”, the threats that he would expose ‘me’ to my family and workplace.. when he is in the wrong not me, the fact that if i ever expose him then he would make my life hell.. really this person is the cruelest of the cruel..
      Your narc sounds similar to mine.. mine also showed me photos of women saying “do you think she is pretty” and then “oh, she is after me so you better be careful” .. he was of course looking for a reaction and yes i felt uncomfortable too especially as this was in the supposed “golden period”. All they seem to want is loads of women swooning over them and fighting over each other to get them. These narcs love to make us jealous by baiting us.. they really are the worst humans on earth. I hope you are healing from your awful ordeal.. xx

      1. BurntKrispyKeen says:

        Thank you, Tiddlywink. I am sorry you had to experience that. I have an understanding of how that must have felt like hell for you. I hope that others are able to see through him.

        It’s amazing how so many of them use the same techniques. Still, I never could understand this one! Like you, I thought that maybe he was trying to make me jealous… brag in a way that he THOUGHT would seem innocuous… just hoping for a shared laugh over a few cute videos. It really did serm like an opportunity to show-off just a few of the attractive women he’s “had.”

        At other times, in casual conversation, he would bring up past encounters with girlfriends, but he’d always follow up with how he’s changed… how that was long ago… a young man’s game that he’s now tired of playing. And since he could be supremely charming, he’d let me know that no one else compared. I was the best… the one and only.


        Maybe it was their insecurities coming through, Tiddlywink? I wish knew for sure. As confident as mine was, deep down, I could see that there was much self-doubt. I just wish he didn’t have to rub it all over me. That stuff must be highly contagious… because dealing with a narcissist has certainly weekend my self-esteem. (But at least I had enough sense not to show him pictures of other men. Not that I had a library full, but still.)

  10. Laura says:

    Hi. I appreciate your insights so much. I have not bought your books yet because I still have to be careful about being too focused on my ex. I was diagnosed with complex-ptsd at the outset of our divorce and have had a very long road back to emotional stability.

    I have struggled a long time with this question and I believe you can help me. I might be able to reduce the amount of confusion and internal debate if you can shed some light on this.

    Do all narcissists know that they are being unfair?

    My ex wears the victim stance like a second skin and the lack of objectivity makes me want to set my hair on fire.

    I have spent years trying to form rational arguments that he can’t deny…what a waste of time. I made myself sick doing so.

    All this time I spent trying to “get through” was a fools errand, but I guess I couldn’t accept that everyone doesn’t agree on “fairness” as a worthy goal?

    I guess he believes I’m not human. Is that it? I wanted to believe that he was a hurt human who wants to heal. I wanted to believe that if I provided a “safe” pace, he would be restored and reborn, the way people can when they trust each other. I thought he was wounded like the rest of us—that he would be able to heal. Or that his resistance to healing could be loved into submission.

    It never occurred to me that he wasn’t a normal human struggling to accept himself.

    I can see he believed I was naive. In fact he projects so much, he doesn’t know me at all. He’s wrong every time he imagines what I’m thinking.

    Does he know he’s being unfair? Does he know he’s accusing me of having the motives he has?

    I have told myself many times that he lacks self awareness. But does he?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. Some of our kind do not see that they are begin unfair.
      2. Some of our kind KNOW that their behaviour is regarded as unfair by others, but do not accept that they are liable for this unfairness for a wide number of reasons and thus it is actually the right behaviour.
      3. Few of our kind KNOW that our behaviour is regarded as unfair, understand how culpability could be attached to us but still reject that/do not care because that culpability will be evaded.

  11. Manifest2018 says:

    I am fairly new to this site but it has been great learning so much! Thank you HG. I now know I have a mid range narcissist so called bff etc. 7yrs of my life all explained in a few posts. I wish everyone well as we put the pieces back together again.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Manifest 2018 and welcome on board. I am pleased my work has proven of such assistance to you.

  12. DoForLuv says:

    Hi HG ! .
    Is this an example of an Pin Pong player.
    The Narc was trying to ensnare “victim” and behaved like victim was already his . But she decline . Still only online . But then he “triangulates” her with his “hidden IPPS” . Victim doesnt gets into it or mad just ignores it all wasn’t interested in the first place . She stays polite narc just sends a benign message once in a while . So after a long period he tries to go on a date to meet in person for the first time and shortly after the date narc and “victim “ make it official . And suddenly The “EX” calls the the New IPPS (He might have instigated it all)he pity plays and the name calling ex . Maybe his Mother is the real PS she got triangulated in it too he would tell Mama (to talk to the former victim) and blame her aswell in the same conversation . He tried to impregnate the new IPPS . And starts the devalue of the New IPPS , The New IPPS doesnt have a clue first but slowly the façade fades and goes in push pull mode as well . “The emtional thinking” vs “ exposing him to his truth” . The return to former IPPS isn’t Confirmed ” . But looking at the pattern in the past it could be . Now the narc switched from malign hoovers to benign hoovers again . But he is blocked on everything . I’m trying to understand what class and school narc it is . But I do think its an somatic upper lesser Ping Pong player ?

  13. Kate says:

    Dear Tiddlywink,

    Did he ever take you to his home? That was a tip-off for me. I wonder if those other two women know that he is married and/or about you and /or each other. His wife is being made a fool of! Maybe there is a way to tell her in a way anonymously that is safe for you. So sorry you went through that!

    1. Tiddlywink says:

      Thanks Kate.. yes i did, but he made up some bs about women’s things at his house being his sisters..i didnt meet any of his friends or family of course. When i found out about his double or triple life he denied it of course, making quick and seemingly plausible excuses.. “oh they are just friends”.. but they were all lies…he is such a pathological liar. He said to me in a furious rage that if i ever “ruin his image” my life would not be worth living so i have never approached any of his women because I actually think he could be dangerous if crossed..his desire to keep the “nice charming guy facade” is paramount to him..so i keep quiet while he still gets away with it..

      1. Kate says:

        Dear Tiddlywink,

        Your safety always comes first! You certainly tried to straighten him out, but he cannot be fixed. Be grateful that he isn’t your husband, which is what my sister told me. I didn’t know that people like him existed until I met him less than a year ago. It really bothers me that I was tricked into participating in his adultery!! Their misdeeds are their responsibility, not ours. I am very distrustful now..

      2. BurntKrispyKeen says:

        Tiddlywink, I am sorry you were exposed to his deception and threats. It is devastating to be deceived by so many lies. It’s hard to sit back while he seems to go about his busy life, but my guess is it won’t be long before these women figure him out. He might have the estranged-wife-who-was-never-an-ex fooled, but surely one of these women will eventually catch on to his cheesy ways. I wish you the best as you move on from him.

      3. Tiddlywink says:

        Thanks again Kate..I really appreciate your kind words and yes safety comes first. I have seen his rages and they are very scary..and yes i am glad i was never his wife. After i caught him out that his wife and him still live together, he said he will leave her and we can buy a house together etc. But i now know he has never had any intention of leaving her. She gives him so much fuel plus she knows all his family. However i feel so sorry for another 2 x IPSS’s that he has on the side who both think they are the only ones in his life and worship him too. His behaviour is so fake and fraudulent and sickening and like you i had never ever in my life met anyone like this who worshipped me constantly for about a month or 6 weeks, then once i saw red flags and did some digging to find out he really is still with his wife after all, the devaluation from him was something i will never forget.. and also like you i now cannot trust anyone fully again. I am still reeling and furious that he treated me so appallingly and yet still has at least 3 women to my knowledge in relationships with him and happily jumps from one to the next. He is so good at lying and deceiving that unless these women act on their instincts and look at the red flags i cant see any of them leaving him at the moment..

        1. K says:

          He reminds me of the Ping Pong Player narc, Tiddlywink.

  14. Tiddlywink says:

    This one really rings true with me. He said he had separated from her.. that she cheated on him for 5 months..”would you go back to someone who cheated on you?”he asked me at the outset. He told me she now lived with her mum..and they never see each other etc.. Lo and behold after knowing him for 3 months, he is holidaying overseas twice with her in one year.. he still lives with her and she never left at all..His cruel devaluation of me during this time was horrendous.. his wife/gf is nothing to look at.. fat mousy thing but obviously gives him so much fuel.. its so cruel because she still thinks the sun shines out of him and has no idea about his double or triple life, PLUS he has 2 other women on the side as well..

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