If You Leave The Narcissist



 The narcissist senses that the grip on the victim is under threat in the dynamic between narcissist and Intimate Partner Primary Source. A Preventative Hoover follows – can you establish which school and cadre of narcissist (or narcissists?) is delivering these Preventative Hoovers?

If you leave me I shall surely die and you cannot want that on your conscience can you? If you leave me now, everything that we have built up together will come crashing down around us. Why would you want to do that? Why destroy what we have. Yes, I know that things have not been as good between us lately, but it is not the time to focus on those few bad things but rather to remember what we had, what we have and to treasure that. We are meant to be together. We are bound together as one and I cannot allow you to leave and break what should be unbreakable. How could you countenance doing such a thing? We work so well together, have I not given you love that is beyond anything else you have ever experienced before? You said as such yourself. You have written about it so many times in those beautiful letters that you composed for me, a perfect partner to the expressions of love, passion and desire that I have spoken so many times to you. We have that perfect love, we have just lost our way a little, that is all. We can soon find it again, trust me. We found one another at the beginning didn’t we? Two lost souls who had both been hurt by others before, we saw enough in one another to trust one another with recounting those painful memories didn’t we? We were fated to meet. It was meant to be and if we were able to find ourselves amidst the fog of hurt and regret then surely we can find our way again now? I will do whatever is required to make you stay with me. I cannot let something this precious trickle through my fingers, not now, not after everything that we have said and done.

We have such plans for the future. We want to marry one another and raise a family. That desire cannot have evaporated overnight. No, I thought as much, I can see it in your eyes. Look at me and you will see a man who will be nothing more than a wretched soul if he was to lose you. You are everything to me, you are my north star, my guiding light, my sense of calm and serenity when all is chaos around us. I need you and you need me. We fit together so well. Everybody says that about us. What hope is there for the rest of the world if they see those icons of a perfect love torn asunder? Who will they look to for comfort and encouragement? We not only have an obligation towards one another but to them as well. There is too much darkness out there. Too much hurt, agony and cruelty and we can stand together and be that shining beacon of hope. Do it for me, do it for them, do it for us. Please, I am collapsing inside. The thought of never waking beside you ever again fills me with the most terrible dread. If you leave me, you will rip out the core of me and I will perish. There will be no purpose without you. Everything will become grey, ashen and dark. All colour will be drained from my world if you walk away now. Please do not do it. Please stay with me. I want you to be happy. I want to be happy. I want us to be happy together. There is so much we have not yet done, so many worlds to experience together, to conquer and rule. You are the one who sits at my left hand, my queen. Whatever is needed, just say the words and I will execute what is required but please, please, I am begging you, do not leave me. I love you.

If you leave me I shall ensure you die and believe me, it will not trouble my conscience. If you leave me now, everything that you know and cherish will come crashing down around you. Why would I want to do that? Why destroy what you have? Because you deserve it for your selfishness and your disdain towards me, after everything that I have done for you. Yes, I know that things have not been as good between us lately, but that is because you have not made the time to focus on me and you would rather forget what we had, what I gave you and to treasure me. We will always be together. You will not escape me. I will make it my sole mission in my life to ensure you never become free of me. We are bound together as one, you accepted that from the beginning and I cannot allow you to leave and break what I am entitled to. How could you countenance doing such a thing? How could you hurt the one who has done so much for you? I know how, because you are a fraud, a cruel temptress who swept me up and promised the earth and then delivered nothing. Oh wicked harridan, seditious slut and cruel crone you are. I worked so hard to bring us together, have I not given you love that is beyond anything else you have ever experienced before? You said as such yourself. You have written about it so many times in those beautiful letters that you composed for me, a perfect partner to the expressions of love, passion and desire that I have spoken so many times to you. Well understand this. I meant none of it. I have never loved you, you do not deserve my love, I will give it to someone who will appreciate it and give me what I want, but I will not let you rest. I will not let you walk away from me. You have a price to pay and you will keep on paying. I have created the perfect love and you have trodden all over it. If you try to leave I can soon find you again, trust me. My reach is far and wide. You have no idea of those who are waiting to help me and bring you down. I found you at the beginning didn’t I? That wasn’t me acting alone, I can promise you that. You a broken and lost soul who had been hurt by others before, I saw enough in you to endure you recounting those painful memories didn’t I? Oh I listened alright, storing all the details and I will use them against you now. I will scatter them to the four winds, posting and spreading details of your vulnerabilities far and wide. Not only those but all of the others I have collected whilst we have been together. Oh I have quite the collection and I will not hesitate to use them to destroy you. We were not fated to meet, I chose you. It was meant to be and I will find you again amidst the fog of hurt and regret that I will weave around you so you cannot see a way to escape. I will do whatever is required to make you stay with me. I cannot let something this precious trickle through my fingers, not now, not after everything that we have said and done.

I have such plans for the future. I want to marry another and raise a family and I will keep you updated as to that progress so you are tormented by what you could have had, but you chose to be selfish and leave. That malicious intent will not evaporate overnight, you do realise that don’t you? No, I thought as much, I can see the fear in your eyes. Look at me and you will see a man who will turn you into nothing more than a wretched shadow of your former self. I am everything to you, I will be the clouds which obscure your waystar, I will snuff out your light, I will eradicate any sense of calm and serenity by sowing chaos all around you. You need me more than ever. My machinations fit together so well. Everybody will know how treacherous you are if you dare to leave me. What hope is there for the rest of the world if they see this icon of perfection treated so unfairly? Who will they look to for leadership and brilliance? I not only have an obligation towards myself but to my supporters as well. There is much darkness out there for you, all created by me. Much hurt, agony and cruelty and my supporters will and can stand together and be that relentless machine that crushes you. Do it and see what happens. Please me or you will collapse inside. The thought of never sleeping properly again will fill you with dread because I will always be there, waiting and watching. If you leave me, I will rip your heart out and consume it. There will be no purpose left for you. Everything will become grey, ashen and dark. All colour will be drained from your world if you walk away now. Do not do it. Stay with me. I want you to be controlled. I want to control you. I want and I will get it. There is so much I have not yet done to you, so many worlds of yours to conquer and rule. You are the one who lies broken at my feet, my conquest. Whatever is needed, I will say the words and I will execute what is required to make your life a living hell but I am ordering you, you will not leave me. I hate you.


94 thoughts on “If You Leave The Narcissist

  1. Dandelion says:

    MY ex said: ” I love you but i can’t stay with you because you’ll never change…..

    I told you it’ s a long time you don’t need me anymore….

    I’m sure someday i will understand to love you. When you will stay with a good man rebuilding your life with him. That dat i will probably try to reconquest you.
    And if you accept it will be ok.
    If you won’t, i will accept your refusal…

    I know i will die alone. Beacause i probably deserve it….

    You will always be part of my life….

    It takes me lots of people to forget you.

    I know lots of people and all of them contribute to let me go on with MY life….”

    Doesn’t all that sound terribly ‘NARCY’?

  2. Kate says:

    Hi HG,

    The last line says, “I hate you”. That really struck me. So, these people never loved us? Not ever? Not at all? Why do we believe they do or did?

    Thank you!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No we never loved you. We thought we did, but we did not.

      You believe it because

      1. We are skilled at creating the appearance of love through mimicry ; and
      2. You are love devotees

      1. Mona says:

        “No,we never loved you. We thought we did, but we did not”.

        This is an interesting statement of you, HG. You really believe at first, that you love the person that you ensnare?

        So you mix the feeling of infatuation (full of dreams about the other person, the dream of ever flowing fuel, the highs of testosterone) with something that you thought, that it is love (your own unrealistic expectation about love)
        And then you are disappointed again and the disappointment changes into deep malice.
        So, you are infatuated in an illusion of us. The picture at the wall, the dream girl. The creation of all your hidden dreams. Therefore the pedestal, which is real in the beginning.

      2. Caroline says:

        Can’t love someone else if you don’t first love yourself.

        (I can say this because I’m NOT on a plane to jolly ol’ England… heh, rather interesting – HG anticipated my lumps ahead of schedule…props for that).

      3. Perseschoolofhardnarcs says:

        We believed it because

        1A. You thought you did.

        Folie à deux

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I am HG Tudor so folie à plusieurs is far more fitting.

          1. Perse Ving says:

            Mais oui!


      4. Insatiable Learner says:

        HG, I am still struggling with this “We thought we did, but we did not..”
        So if the narc thought he loved, does it not mean he gave his best, you know to the extent he was capable? On the other hand, however, what was always shocking about the narc’s so-called love was that his actions did not reflect the love he professed and also that it had an off and on quality to it.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Yes he did give his or her best but only so it served his purposes. The pleasure et al you derived from it was purely a collateral consequence. When you are painted black, the “love” is switched off and hence this is why the supposed love will not manifest when you expected that it should do so.

  3. Perseschoolofhardnarcs says:

    Excruciating panic, hard to breathe.
    A Greater. Probably Elite.

    This time through the mind movie of my life with him was running, excess adrenaline, still shaking.

    Really WTF??!!! Should be calmer by now………..

    He told me at the beginning,everybody leaves him. I told him I couldn’t promise him anything. I had plans for my life that didn’t really include anyone else.

    It’s like he heard, “I’ll never leave you, and if I even think about it, I deserve and accept any punishment you choose to inflict on me.”

    Damn, I’m angry again, and I haven’t even stopped shaking yet.

    I’ve got to go do something else now.

    1. Caroline says:

      Allow yourself to feel what you do — whenever you feel it — whatever it is. Authentic feelings are a gift. Never lose that.

      I’m big on going for a car ride and cranking up my fav, most fun, empowering music. I don’t even care who sees me “dancing/singing” in my car. Once recently, I did this with a window down, and I ended up at a light, where a really cute guy in a convertible (stop light) yelled out to me: “Your hair sure looks pretty glistening in the sunlight!”

      Aw…it totally made my day. But was he saying my singing sucked??? LOL.

      So go for it. Be YOU. Let loose. Feel your sense of self… and smile.

      1. Perseschoolofhardnarcs says:


        Sometimes what I read here affects me intellectually, sometimes it’s effect is emotional. I know I have to feel it, so I can recognize it, when it still just the beginning of the feeling of my body whispering “Danger!”
        Just then, when I posted, I was shaking with fight, fight, or freeze.
        There was nothing to “fight”, and “freeze” really doesn’t serve well, so “flight”. I sat still long enough to read & reply, but after that the shaking was too intense, and I probably would have had a panic attack if I thought i couldn’t escape what i was thinking.
        So i did something similar to what you described. I got in the car, put on a comedy channel, and went to where there are people I wanted to see, laughing it up along the way.
        Much better now. :0

        1. Caroline says:

          You have no idea how much I love this, Perse.

          SO awesome…

          Big hug.

      2. Perseschoolofhardnarcs says:


        So sorry that you have to defend yourself against that di**heads hoover. We’re here, rootin’ for you! I hope you can block, evade, and deprive him of fuel.

        I’m a little scared of HG, too. But if I was in danger, I’d want the help of the very best.



        1. HG Tudor says:

          “I’m a little scared of HG, too. But if I was in danger, I’d want the help of the very best.” – that is a good mind set to maintain.

          1. Caroline says:


        2. Caroline says:

          Thank you, Perse.:-)

          I know, we’re conflicted on HG… which, actually, makes perfect sense. It shows we deal in emotion + logic. We get it.

          He’s GREAT to have on your side… but if, for instance, I traveled to England and was wearing a “Hi, I’m Caroline, from the blog” tag and bumped into him… and he invited me for a “spot of tea” or a drink at the local pub, I would definitely be like:

          “Oh, HG… thanks so much, so sweet… but, bloody hell — just look at the time! (as I stare at my non-existent wrist watch)… So, I gotta take the next train, er, plane, er, boat to… um, Norway, no, America, no Zimbabwe. So catch ya later, HG!”

          But yeah, I like him. I just understand that he’s a Greater. I’m an Empath. So there it is!

          1. HG Tudor says:

            One lump or two?

          2. Caroline says:

            See? Exactly… *no* lumps on this precious noggin.


      3. Perseschoolofhardnarcs says:


        Tea with a Narcissist?
        Watch out for those lumps!!!


        1. Caroline says:

          That’s hysterical. I loooooooooove you!

      4. Perse Ving says:


        Sorry about the profile name. I’m a little slow on the uptake, it didn’t occur to me that it could possibly cause problems.

        I was just amusing myself, and assumed others got the joke.

        I changed it.Again.


        1. HG Tudor says:

          No problem.

          1. NarcAngel says:


            Feel free to change my name to something you think would be fitting. Surprise me.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            I see no need to do so, NarcAngel suits you excellent well. I could suggest Reverend Keeper of the Sisters of Temptation but it is rather long.

          3. NarcAngel says:

            Reverend Keeper of the Sisters of Temptation.

            Haha, kinder than I expected and appropriate, but agreed-too long.
            NA it remains then.

    2. Bobbi says:

      I know that feeling all too well, you just described my narc. No low to mid level narcs for fuel of our caliber, right?!?!

      I’ll give you a bit of tried and true advice:

      Don’t Feed The Narcissist!

      Remember when you think or feel like the narc is getting the best of you that going “grey rock” really confuses them. They can’t make the buttons or switches on their refueling appliance function, and it totally bewilders them. I find it helps to have something to divert your attention from them and any attempts to draw you in while in grey rock mode. I usually keep my cell or iPad and earbuds as well as a good book. Higher functioning narcs won’t like it, but will take a hint.
      Also, remember that YOU are the one who really holds the power. You may be only a source of fuel to your narc, but being the source (especially if you are the primary source) is kinda like being a drug dealer. They can’t get their fix from you unless you let them have it.
      I discovered that when you turn the tables on a narc that either they’ll 1.) get bored or offended and go away (in my book that’s a victory since I’m transferring my narc addiction to HG…Just kidding. I’m actually spending time with kids and family and friends, picking back up hobbies, self care, etc, anything but dwelling on the fiction. ), or 2.) start scheming as to how they will get you to give them their fuel.

      Best of luck. Don’t let your narc get the best of you, and if you have, try focusing on bettering yourself rather than the narc. If you ignore it long enough it will eventually go away, which really is for the best.

      1. Perseschoolofhardnarcs says:


        Thank you for the kind words and advice.

        Believe me, I’m not feeding my N! He’s a plastic box with a label, stuck in the back of a rarely opened closet, nowadays.

        I do know about going grey rock, now. I finally, and instinctively learned to do this, but I referred to it as poker face.

        I was reacting to memories, stirred up by HG’s evocative writing. He is so spot on, it’s like being there again, in that moment or situation.

        I can sometimes read and absorb logically. Other times, emotions are very strongly triggered. The latter was the case, with reading this article, when I did.

  4. NarcAngel says:

    BKK and Caroline

    I feel like I’ve walked in on two teenagers heavy petting. No need to angst at missing each other. Its been discussed previously that this blog is like Hotel California-you can check out any time you like…but you can never (really) leave.

    Hi Caroline-(I know youre still reading). I wish you all the best until we see you again.

    1. Carol M says:

      Hotel California – this is priceless! “Anytime of year/You can find it here”

    2. BurntKrispyKeen says:

      Well just cover your eyes, Narc Angel. You know it won’t last for more than a few minutes with teens involved.

      Hotel California… I never made the comparison, but I can see the analogy as quite appropriate. And I see the truth in how that can be said of any relationship with a narc… just a prisoner of our own device. (Love the Eagles).

      It’s a little intimidating though. But if trading one addiction for another gets me to a better place, I’ll keep rolling up my sleeves. Being here has worked well for me in that regard. During those weak moments when I’m temped to reach out to check on him or his daughter, I’ll tell myself that there’s a new narc in town.

      Then I check in here instead.

      It certainly helps. Besides, my narcissist doesn’t come with hundreds of empaths to help guide me along. So I think I’m making the most enlightening and entertaining choice each time I shun one narc for another.

      And I think I could get used to this… this sort of devaluation that I do to my narcissist each time I log onto Narcsite. It’s kinda cool having my very own ENPS… even if I have to wait my turn. Every empath needs an Educational Narcissist Primary Source.

      So thank you for sharing yours with me, Narc Angel. (I’m actually kind of glad HG is a narcissist. Only a Greater could juggle the demands and needs of this many empaths. And no doubt, he’s appreciative to have your presence here. So know that I appreciate your advice and humor as well.)

      1. NarcAngel says:


        This blog is Narc Methadone. Where else can you wean while feeling great and having a laugh with awesome people and obtaining an Ivy League education? People absolutely should come here when they feel any pull. I am but a remote tertiary source to HG (more like a used fuel scented air freshener lol) and grateful to be a guest so that I can witness the many success stories in all of you.

      2. BurntKrispyKeen says:

        Narc Angel… I like your analogy of Narc Methadone. It’s perfect, really. Describes the addiction, but represents a lesser evil… a drug to wean oneself from a more harmful substance.

        I agree that the education here is superb and the stories fantastic. It takes a village, no doubt.
        And your presence is appreciated by many, so don’t sell yourself short on that scent of your used fuel… that might just be “the smell of colitas, rising up through the air.”

        Smells fantastic to me.

        1. NarcAngel says:


          Oh Colitas!…………(had to look that up). Always wondered on the choice of lyrics in “the warm smell of colitis rising up through the air”. And to think I mocked my friend for not knowing the right word and mumbling through that line instead whenever she sang along. Another sang the warm smell of bleach……… Im laughing so hard right now. Good times.

    3. Caroline says:

      Awwww… what’s the matter, NA? You know I loveth you too…kissy kissy!! Did I not say I’d hit your abuser with a pie to the face? I meant it. Like I’m totally available, if that dude’s still alive. So do not be dissin’ me for my abundant love + guilt complex. Hurtful!

      I don’t think y’all get the seriousness of what I am up against… I’m trying to slay a demon, people. I even broke down and emailed HG (and I’m sorta scared of him, TBH), so you *know* I’m a bit concerned about this.

      Waiting, waiting… Hello, HG? — am I email #2,367? (Note to self: you’re not patient, Caroline. You expect people to drop everything for you).

      But you know HG…he’s probably too busy getting admiration/attention/applause from all his groupies. Typical narcissist. Where are they when you need them?…Yeah, no where to be found.

      But please give a girl a break, NA… I’m under siege, woman — and doing the best I can. However, I’m not yet breaking a sweat (powder fresh)… no way this narc is taking away my SHINE. Screw that.

      Caroline/AKA Nancy Drew/”Value Pack Empath”

      1. NarcAngel says:

        No pie for that prick-hes dead, but I appreciate the sentiment lol. Im not dissin you. I like you-you just couldnt tell. Im glad you are consulting with HG and theres no need to be afraid. Take his advice then squash this narc you have like a bug and come back to tell us all about it.


        1. Caroline says:

          Thank you, little Angel~XO!

      2. BurntKrispyKeen says:

        Caroline, best wishes as you hold your ground during this battle with Mr. Persistence. They can really wear us down… through their anger then sadness, through contempt followed with bouts of pity play. It’s an emotional roller coaster, for certain. So I am glad you reached out for advice. I have no doubt that you will find your exchange with HG to be beneficial.

        It is odd, though… the timing of these events. I know you didn’t anticipate a delayed check-out, so there must be some truth to those “voices down the corridor.” But hopefully all will be back on track soon, so you can continue your journey as planned.

        Sending up prayers for you and rooting that you and HG will find a quick solution to this ordeal, so that you can remain powder-fresh and narcissist-free.

        1. Caroline says:

          Thank you, Miss BKK! My email question is now in the capable hands of the “Master Manipulator” now… and he IS the right person to seek out on these things.

          My whole life I’ve tried to handle everything myself. It’s not necessarily a bad quality, but I take it to the extreme sometimes — to my detriment. It must be a narcissistic quality I have.

          We all need help/input sometimes…and I do agree with the concept that you go to people who are qualified. Who is better qualified to understand a narcissist than an actual narcissist?

          I’ll get through this weirdness… thanks for the support. I was actually leaving BECAUSE I was trying to focus on my narcissistic problem more… which I know is rather backwards.*_*

      3. BurntKrispyKeen says:

        Ah, Caroline, your master plan brought you back to The Master. How apropos.
        And everything for a reason. I know you need time away to manage this situation, but let us hear your victory speech once you’ve wrestled your handsome narcissistic monster into tucking his tail and retreating… so that you can return.

        Still wishing you the best.

        1. Caroline says:

          Got really good input from Sir Jolly Good…yeah, I’m feeling more empowered, BKK. 🙂

          1. NarcAngel says:


            Re: consulting with the Master

            *** sticks out tongue ***

            I love to say I TOLD YOU SO!!!!

          2. Caroline says:

            Lol~I’ve got no problem letting you have your “Told ya so!” moment, little Angel. 🙂 There is the best “TYS” clip somewhere, from an episode of “Will and Grace” sitcom… going to go try to dig it up and tack it on here (separate, in case it gets stuck in moderation for eons)…

          3. Caroline says:

            Like this, NA?

          4. NarcAngel says:


            Well thats a lot cuter than I would ever be, but it works lol.

    4. BurntKrispyKeen says:

      I know what you are saying, Narc Angel, about the confusion with lyrics. My friends and I have had several belly-busting conversations laughing about all of our misunderstandings.

      When I was younger, I even had one word of the lyrics to a popular Depeche Mode song confused. But I won’t dare discuss it further for fear of being considered blasphemous and perhaps causing another amendment to Rule # 13. But one word off can certainly change the direction of a song.

      It’s quite entertaining to get a group together and hear of the many misinterpretations we’ve all had. If only we had Lyrics.com back in my day, I might not would have embarrassed myself so much. But then again, we wouldn’t have shared as many laughs.

      1. NarcAngel says:


        Well now you HAVE to tell us your DM lyric faux pas. Perhaps HG and the band will share a laugh over it when he attends their next concert. You could have a brush with greatness by proxy (twice).

  5. BurntKrispyKeen says:

    Who’s going to back me up when I get all mushy with an urge to say, “So cute!”
    (He just did it again.⬆)
    I’m going to miss you, Caroline. I didn’t always respond, but whenever I would read your comments (I’m starting to think I must have missed a few) I felt a connection to you through your words. We seem to think in a similar fashion on many topics. I realize that might be a hard pill to swallow as not everybody gets me. But I think you did. Thank you for that. Thank you for sharing a piece of your story and for bringing me laughter when I needed it most.

    Again, the best to you as you move forward…

    1. Caroline says:

      BKK~You can just say: “Caroline would think that’s cute.”

      And I won’t be here to get sneered at. Tada! We’ve rigged the system.

      (This is the longest “see ya later” ever… now you be good. And I DO get you. You’re complex + very real + super cool).

      1. BurntKrispyKeen says:

        You are so sweet, Caroline… and cute!

        Just check in on us every once in a while…
        We’ll want to know you’re still hanging tough and I’ll need to know you still got my six… 😊

        If you hear a distress call saying… It would be jolly good if you’d cover my bloody back, you’ll know I’ve been taken over and your services are much needed.

        I wish you the best. Truly.

        1. Caroline says:

          No problem, BKK~give me a 911 ping anytime, and I’ll come running.:-)

          Speaking of running, I’ve got a lot going on right now, so I’ve been pulled in a bunch of directions…meanwhile, I’ve been steadfastly doing NC, but he’s still found a few weird ways to mess with me. I really thought he’d tire of this by now. There’s got to be a breech with someone…

          So now I have this notebook, and I’m jotting relevant facts down, and I even have diagrams in it — just trying to figure out WTH is going on. Give me a friend named Bess and a batch of blondies — and call me Nancy Drew, lol. I know, it’s positively nutty. “Nancy Drew and the Case of the Needling Narcissist.”

          I have no idea what to expect next. But I *am* going to figure this weirdness out.

          All for now,
          Nance (might as well laugh about it)

      2. BurntKrispyKeen says:

        He simply doesn’t want to give up all of that good fuel, Caroline. But you stay strong as there has to be a bit of satisfaction in knowing you’re driving him crazy.

        With mine, I know that if I went back, he would eventually punish me for the times I’ve successfully avoided him. So hang in there, Caroline, and keep journaling.

        (Can you imagine what they’re going to think when your narc journal gets discovered 500 years from now? But maybe by then, they’ll all be aliens living on a planet ruled by empaths… And hopefully, we will have discovered a cure, so your journal will be held up into the air and looked upon with curious stares… much in the same ways we view a corset. Ouch!)

        Take Care….

        1. Caroline says:

          Thank you, sweet BKK!

          I think I may need to come back on here sooner. I left because I am so flippin’ stubborn (about solving my own stuff), but the narcissist is just pulling out all the stops… he is both annoying the heck out of me (screwing with my life, in subtle ways) + love bombing me. I’m not sure what posts will come out of moderation quickest, but (sorry if I’ve repeated myself) I’ve broken down and emailed HG, which is so unlike me…I just realize my narcissist’s mindset is not something I can predict. I sense he is more ruthless than when I dated him. I had this really awful dream the other night that he kidnapped me.

          It is finally sinking in that my narcissist had set in his head for a long time now that he would “win me back” and I’d be his IPPS. It’s not cute or fun. I’m not flattered. I’m scared…and I feel pressured.

          Is he super smart? Yes. Gorgeous? Yes. Sexy? Yes. He makes me laugh. So many things do still attract me to him, but NO, just NO! I see it for what it is now — and I can’t unsee it. All he will bring me is pain. I know he can’t help how he is, and I am so sorry for him…but I just can’t sacrifice myself for his selfish interests. I do care about myself.

          My biggest problem right now? I am scared to say another “no” to him, and I am scared of when he will turn up next. I am scared of hurting him (can you believe that??) AND I am scared of what he will do/how he will react to NO. I am so mad at these fears, as I do consider myself a very strong person…but it is what it is. I have progressed — but, obviously, not enough yet. I have work to do.

          I’ll be traveling again soon…maybe that will be for the best. I really just want to disappear for awhile.

      3. BurntKrispyKeen says:

        I understand.
        It is so damn hard, especially when there is that long-standing attraction. (I commented to you below.)

        I have no doubt you will receive the words you need to hear from HG (I’m pretty sure I know a portion of what he’s going to tell you, and it won’t be easy, but you can do it…. because deep down, you know best what’s best for you. So as hard as this is, you will know that his advice also supports what is best for you.

        And the time away you wish to take… you’ll need that. It will help to clear your head, lighten your heart and allow it to heal.

        Best Wishes to you, Nancy Drew…

        1. Caroline says:

          I’m kinda into this Nancy Drew thing. Maybe I should change my name on here. Yes? No? There’s a chick on here named “Carolyn,” and she’s wearing my same (green) outfit. I find that confusing. Should I change to Nancy Drew?

          Okay, but in all seriousness, I have a question for you — and all empaths, really…

          So we’re empaths. We’re not shallow. We sense so much more than most. We’re so deep. So WHY are we (often) most attracted to narcissists? It really bothers me, about myself.

          Is it:
          A) Because we actually love OURSELVES a lot — and narcissists just reflect this? (And if we love ourselves so much, *how* is it we do we not flip to being narcissists ourselves?… but we absolutely do NOT. We always have so much empathy).

          B) They — as rather insidious, but super smart analysts — know just how to mimic what we find cool/sexy/awesome?

          C) Other???

  6. DebbieWolf says:


    And it’s when you write like this that helps keep me safe from being drawn back in.
    Valuable pieces of advice laced through the text..unspoken warnings that dart out from between the lines and bite down hard.

    Fair warning here in this terrible reality.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Jolly good.

  7. Caroline says:


    Thank you all, so much. Thank you…for all you produced to educate me, HG. I like so many things about you, despite understanding that you are a narcissist (your intelligence/wit/humor/focus/discipline/determination). You have helped me so much! It is more than I can even describe, so I won’t even try. I laughed…I cried…I wrestled with myself… and I absorbed. I am so sorry for whatever abuse you suffered, though I understand my saying that means nothing to you. But never should have been like that for you… and I wish I could have been there to fix it for you…but I was not. It’s just the reality of life. I am sorry.

    Thank you, to all you Empaths, who made me feel less alone.

    I am grateful for everything + to everyone on this site. I learned so much. Some of it really hurt. Some of it emboldened me. But most of it enforced what I innately knew: I can trust myself, always. I love myself MORE than I would love any narcissist. I will honor who I am, and I will not be abused, in any way, ever again.

    May all who venture here find peace and healing, whenever you are at, on your journey.

    Love…to you all.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are most welcome. Seize the power!

      1. Caroline says:

        I will. As a continual reminder, I bought myself a bracelet that has a little silver charm with the words “Shine bright” on it.

        Thank you, HG.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Excellent totem.

    2. DebbieWolf says:

      Thank you Caroline..

      Be safe. Be well.
      With love to you too.

      Debbie x

    3. Catherine says:

      Take care of yourself Caroline! You’ll be missed!

      1. Caroline says:

        Oh gawd, whatever kind of empath I am, Catherine — it is such a goofy + odd one…I just said my big goodbye – but I can’t possibly NOT respond to any follow-up messages, loI (guess I didn’t think that part through). I swear that I am SO much tougher on my narcissist, but I can’t possibly give beautiful empaths the silent treatment, even if you just give a brief, sweet “bye” to me. It seems rude not to respond… and it makes me SAD.

        There’s a very good reason I was signing off, and I still will… but 3 months should suffice, so I may be back. Until then, I’ll read the posts that come to my box, and I’ll reply if there are any loose end posts (stuck in moderation) where people specifically ping me.

        So basically, you can’t totally cut the cord, Caroline. Uh… yeah, guess not.

        So… slight revision: I will be MUCH MORE QUIET FOR A GOOD AWHILE. (yes, mocking me is in order).

      2. BurntKrispyKeen says:

        I think that sounds better, Caroline.
        A respite of sorts. A little time on the shelf.
        Like you, I never was good at goodbyes… imagine that.

      3. Catherine says:

        I understand Caroline; it’s sometimes well needed to keep a lower profile and get on with your life; you seem to have come far by now. I’m glad though that you’ll still be here from time to time. I always enjoy your posts! Hugs to you!

      4. Bibi says:

        Good luck to you Caroline.

        I know for me there are times I have to retreat, but when one stumbles upon intelligent information as HG’s blog, it’s a nice lighthouse amid a sea of online crap.

        If I knew years ago what I know now, I would have nipped that narc in the bud right away.

        1. Caroline says:

          Thank you, Bibi. I’ll be back soon enough… and, in the meantime, may all great empaths get + stay narc-free. I agree with all you say about the site/empath support/HG’s tutelage.

          By now, you have all seen what a major guilt complex I have, and HG is like: “Jolly good show, Caroline — is it any wonder you were ensnared by a narcissist – and you don’t think you could use a consult with me, WHY?”

          Ok, ok…I still have work to do. lol. But false guilt or not, I’d miss everyone too much to stay away for too long.

    4. Carol M says:

      All love to you as well! <3 stay in your path <3

      1. Caroline says:

        Thanks, Carol! XO!

    5. Kimi says:

      Goodbye Caroline!

      You have been a sweet strong presence here and will be missed! Thank you for your comments, clarity and kind support. I wish you well on your journey forward!!!

      1. Caroline says:

        Thanks, Kimi. You’re a doll. I’ll be back. Stay strong!

    6. BurntKrispyKeen says:

      Dear Caroline,

      What a beautiful farewell you have written.
      But have I missed something? Is there a situation pulling you away or is this simply a happy graduation from Narc School?

      Gosh, you just made me sad and happy all at once. Happy because you seem to be in a great place, but sad because I will miss your insight and humor.

      Best wishes to ya, sister. May you find the love you deserve.

      1. Caroline says:

        You all are so kind, and I feel a bit ridiculous for creating this confusion now (so sorry)… yes, I do have a reason to be away for awhile, but it’s not because I have this narcissist thing so very under control (though I am hanging tough on NC–but he’s truly not giving up and being a nut). I’ll still be reading or respond to any posts I’ve got already out, and I’m sure I’ll be back. :-)See my note to Catherine. Hugs.

        Wow, I can’t even say goodbye right…lol! 😉 This is so much harder than my original breaking up (after 3 years) with my narcissist… because, of course, you guys are WAY better than him. 🙂

  8. Bibi says:

    So I was running today and Twisted Sister blasted through. I feel this song is the perfect one for those undergoing the Empath Supernova.

    Sometimes you just need an ’80s hair band to help you through. LOL

    1. Carol M says:

      This song is priceless! “If that’s your best, your best won’t do!”

      1. Bibi says:

        I know, right? I WANNA ROCK.

        I can just envision a swarm of empaths ignited in their vengeful fury.

    2. BurntKrispyKeen says:

      Bibi, you just took me back in time. Oh, the concerts I’ve seen. My tastes in music are all over the map. But back in the day, between the hair bands and the Second British Evasion, we thought we were exposed to the best music ever!
      Party On.

  9. Iwentback! says:

    Victim middle mid range narc.

  10. On my Journey says:

    Mine absolutely do not want to depend on one source and he was saying , I am afraid you want to leave, I dont want to lose you etc. But also, no one will ever have an edge over me, no one. I will never depend on one person or on one person too much. He is a greater.

  11. MaliceInWonderland says:

    This is chillingly similar to the script spun by my ex.

    Jesus. Christ.

    1. Caroline says:

      I know what you mean, “Malice.”

      I have to give props to HG for providing examples/analogies/dialog to cement what a SET SCRIPT narcissists read from…

      I’m such an unscripted creature that it helps me really GET it. And it’s disturbing…

    2. Carol M says:

      Yes, once you understand what makes them tickle, all their speeches look hauntingly similar.

    3. NarcAngel says:


      Your ex was Jesus Christ?

      Jesus Christ.

      1. Bobbi says:

        If he wasn’t he probably thought he should have been and resented Jesus for it. Narcs, if you’ve dealt with one you’ve just dealt with a carbon copy of every other one. All that changes is their reaction to the reactions of others.

  12. Moira says:

    There is tremendous beauty in what you write. It is powerful, shameful and vulnerable. Give me more.

    1. Caroline says:

      Powerful? Yes, because it educates.
      Shameful? To us Empaths, yes…but probably *not* to the narcissist who wrote it. 😉
      Vulnerable? I think not — pretty sure HG isn’t given to being vulnerable, but I DO completely understand what you mean. As Empaths, we possess the precious gift of vulnerability… but I think we mistakenly “read” this into others sometimes…some (i.e., narcissists and “normals”) have a different mindset/motivations.

      I am so very glad I am an Empath, despite the downside.

      1. Bobbi says:

        Actually I have seen the vulnerability in my narc. He’s either a midranger or grand depending on mood and his last refueling.
        A narc would never admit to having a real vulnerability, but think back to all the times you were labeled as an addict when your only addiction was (is) to the narc, all the times he attacked you for being weak or a burden to him and labeled as insecure or needy, when all you want is just a little affection, appreciation or regard (although in time you will become insecure, needy and codependent. He will make you that way.). Remember all the times you were accused of cheating when you were faithfully waiting and wondering and he was either distant or MIA?
        That was all the narc projecting his faults, flaws, weaknesses, and even his wrongdoings on you.

  13. Ugotit says:

    I think the last paragraph was written by a greater I know mine would never utterr the words in the first paragraph such as I can’t live without you our entire relationship seemed to exist for one purpose which was to show me he didn’t need me well it finally worked I left he hoovered me once butvi know it was only a bid at snatching control back and when I blocked him on instagram he instantly blocked me back and I had to block his cousin cuz I saw pictures of him on a ski trip with his cousin and other friends looking happy as pie and saw him trying to appear charming and deleriusly jovial he looked like an overgrown drunk frat boy trying to fit in with a bunch of guys half his age I know its always been and will always be more important to him to spear charming and likeable to half strangers than it will ever be for him to be likeable in my eyes

    1. Caroline says:

      Hey, “u got it,” I saw the EYES of the narcissist you have been entangled with, a few posts back… do you mean you think yours is a Mid-Ranger?…His eyes screamed UMR to me, so I was just curious. 🙂

      1. Ugotit says:

        I’m not sure Caroline somebody in that post said he looks like a lesser but I know he’s not he’s never used heated fury I go back and forth between midranger and greater he uses silent treatment like a midranger but the rest of his behaviour is more like a greater save the fact he is not a successful person I think he’s probably an upper midranger also or a lower greater

        1. Caroline says:

          Maybe that’s why I can sense it, “u got it”… although your narcissist looks nothing like mine, I believe mine is an UMR or Lesser Greater as well. Mine had no heated fury either, but he did do some rather strange STs…he’s extremely charming but also can scare me. He’s unpredictable + punishment-minded. He tried to exert heavy control over me + is the most jealous guy I’ve ever known.

  14. Caroline says:

    Sounds very much like “my” narcissist, who is either a Greater or UMR.

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