Closure Denied



We do not do the clean break. We never allow closure. There is no neat conclusion when you have been entangled with our kind. You are not allowed the precise and final cut of the surgeon’s scalpel but instead you must be content with the rusty saw that has sought to effect an amputation but instead has merely created a grisly abomination whereby there remains tendrils attached and ragged and torn flesh. No matter how hot the water which flows in your shower and the vigour with which you scrub your reddened flesh, no matter how much detergent you apply and no matter whether you use scrubbing brush or wire wool you cannot remove that residue. We linger. We remain. We percolate and infiltrate.

This, like much of what we do, is a calculated act to maintain a connection between you and us. We can never let go so we see no reason why you should be allowed to either. The residue which we create and which you cannot remove, takes many forms. It may be the fact that we chose you when we worked together so that each day you have no choice but to see us across the floor space in the same office, in the cafeteria or striding across the car park. Once upon a time, like every good fairy tale, you smiled and you felt your heart skip a beat as you saw us exit the lift and smile at you. That wonderful smile which was just for you. Now when we exit the lift and our cold, dead eyes alight on you, the smile is no more than a sickly leer which slowly opens up across our face as we know the residue of our impact on your remains deep inside you. You are faced with this each day. It is either that or leave and go somewhere else and even though you know that the latter is probably the most appropriate cause of action, something prevents you from doing so. Is it because you still want to see us? Of course it is. You may very well hate us but you cannot still help yourself as you want to see what we are doing and allow yourself the indulgence of looking at us and remembering.

In a different way the residue may be the fact that we owe you money and you are left to contact us, despite not wishing to do so, because you want, no, because you need that money. After all, we leeched from you so successfully that we have left you in penury and you need this money to be reimbursed. Part of you would rather write it off and in doing so hope that you can scour us from your memory, but circumstance dictates the necessity of collection. We know this and we shall provide excuse and exhibit delay and prevarication in order to keep you hanging on and in order to keep the connection between us alive still. The money will be paid by the end of the week promise. Sorry but we had to have a new boiler fitted so it will be next month now. The bonus was not as large as had been promised so it will a further three months as I shall have to pay you by instalments. What money? I do not know owe you anything. We keep you dangling and pull at the connection that remains between you and I. If it is not money, then it will be possessions. We will purposefully leave our belongings in your house and you will repeatedly ask us to collect them. We issue similar excuses to the repayment of the borrowed money. I am a bit busy at the moment maybe next week. I need to collect it in a car and mine is in the garage at the moment. If the possessions are not ours at your property then we will have ensured that in addition or as an alternative we will have kept items belonging to you with us, causing you to have to keep some form of contact with us in order to recover them. We ensure we select those items which are expensive and of sentimental value so you will not be able to replace them but instead you must keep asking us for the items. We will string out the return of these items by failing to be in when you call to collect them, turning up to deliver them when you are not in, forgetting to do so and so forth. It all maintains the link between us and increases your upset, annoyance and frustration. We want to keep our residue in your life so that when we choose to make our move we can suck you back in without difficulty.

We will remain in the same circle of friends as you. With our notoriously thick skin we will still turn up to meals and drinks knowing that you will be there. You will feel uncomfortable and resent our intrusion. Third parties will try to keep the peace and of course we will maintain our façade in order to show that we are a good person and we are just trying to be civil following the ending of the relationship. You may react to this and it enables us to point out that you are unhinged, unpleasant and always have to bear a grudge. Is it any wonder that we left?

Whilst we create the ever presence so that you see us everywhere you go, in sounds, in sights and tastes, we also like to leave our mark on you, smearing you with the residue of the relationship so that you feel tainted for the rest of your life, marked with the repeated reminder that you have been embroiled in a relationship with us and moreover to let you know in the clearest terms that you will never be free of us. We can never be washed away.

37 thoughts on “Closure Denied

  1. On My Journey says:

    Funny I tested Narc number 3 yesterday just for fun. I really don’t give a shit about him anymore but I wanted to apply my new knowledge and test him. His mom passed away and he posted it publicly on FB. He never post anything public. He was targeting all his exes for sure. I remember he did the same when his brother passed away while I was with him.

    So I did wrote him a note, well crafted and he read my message right away of course and never replied. I did not wanted to response, I wanted to see if he would respond or not, knowing he would not, yet he keeps his messenger open to me.

    This number 3 – gave me the whole range of Narc menu in 5 months. It went so fast. At the time I was reading the book men who can’t love and I thought that was it, he just could love and of course I sent him the book ( crazy me) now I know he was a lesser mid.

    He never gave me closure and I did tried very hard to get it.

    He was the expert at silent treatment – he gave me my first one after a month- we had not even met yet. He told me I love you, we had not even met yet.

    The cycle was very fast with him so I never really got to be profoundly ensnared and since I really dont give a shit and I know I am at no risk of liking him again, I play a little … That is my empath fun !!

  2. realitysetsinnn says:

    I think with the greater narcissist/ sociopath/psychopath- basically I think they are better at brain washing and mind games. Mind control etc. so I believe that is why they are harder to break away from in any way but especially in ones heart and mind. Not saying it’s impossible it’s just harder.

    1. K says:


      Oh, they most certainly are! HG is a greater elite narcissist and he is very skilled at his craft. No way would I ever want to be ensnared by a greater. I think it would be almost impossible to escape and, if you did, you can kiss your heart and soul goodbye!

  3. Lady Jane says:

    After what I considered the very last interaction with my ex narc (husband) I was brutal!! Changed the house locks, got a new phone number, wiped away memories, threw out every single item of his (regardless of its value) changed all my accounts (name, passwords etc) his only attempt at contact after that was by email to ask for his belongings….. I sent it straight to my lawyer who responded! Didn’t take him long to move on of course, but this was great as divorce was quick and straight forward! All ties cut! After almost 2 years separated I’ve not had the pleasure of bumping into him yet…… One thing I do know is I wouldn’t p#*s on him if he was on fire!!

  4. Blossom says:

    1. Narcissist disengages with you in a cruel manner, putting all the blame on you, telling you he doesn’t want to hear from you.
    2. After two months he starts contacting you, telling he is sorry for the pain he have caused and wanting to be friends.

    What causes this 180 degree change? No other supply?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hoover Trigger and the Hoover Execution Criteria are met thus you are hoovered and the narcissist identifies that offering false contrition is likely to achieve want he wants which will primarily be fuel, along with character traits and residual benefits.

    2. Skc8130 says:

      OMGOSH this is what mine has been doing since April.
      He demanded we be friends one time when I was in a strong place. I said no, you can’t make me. Then he demanded I pay him some money I owe him, i told him I never would pay him.
      15 min later he posted a fake account of me on fb with two years worth of nude photos and videos.

      Here I am two months later having been so strong, breaking the NC with him last week.
      Then he shut me out, denied me.
      I feel sick

  5. Reba says:

    Washed away? Not yet. That is why all of us are here though–we are in the process of washing the narc away. He will fade into oblivion, because there is only contempt and occasionally, pity, left. Memories will be dismissed as bearing false witness, and we are filled up with what is now, what is real and our own voices in our heads. I feel it more and more each day. He cannot have my present, or my future, and the past grows dim in the distance.

    It is not the same as losing someone who really loved you–that memory becomes bearable with time, but never truly fades. But with the narcissist, it evaporates sooner than you think, because it was just a mirage. Thinking that we are forever yours, that is the delusion of the narcissist. We never really were, because you are not real, just a construct, and a rather flimsy one at that. The narcissist tells himself otherwise, because he must. But the narcissist will miss our precious fuel , and all that we gave him, far longer and more deeply than we will miss him, because we don’t need the narcissist. He, however, cannot survive without the likes of us.

  6. On my Journey says:

    I meant I escaped before but came back the very next day. Now it has been almost 2 weeks. So that his my record… 🙂

    1. realitysetsinnn says:

      You are getting stronger. It’s a slow slow process. Hang in there and don’t beat yourself up. Any effort is good effort.

  7. On my Journey says:

    I heard we go back 7 times on average with our Narc after either being dismissed or having escaped. It is very hard. It is my first escape, I broke no contact, I engaged in lengthy texts messages with him the difference is that I read the texts and respond differently that I would have had before. There is some ” comfort” zone outside of war where we are happy with the Narc, I know now it is only illusion, just like wine and you wake up hangover. I guess because they don’t really cut and give closure it is harder to move on. Have you guys gone back many times. I have to tie myself up not to go back in my misery. That annoys me.

    1. K says:

      On my Journey
      Yes, I went back several times to my MMRN, this was way before narcsite even existed. Now, I am just an appliance that has been disengaged with. It is very difficult to make a clean break with a narcissist so don’t beat yourself up for going back.

      Closure means the provision of fuel ends and does so for good, and the narcissist wants access to your fuel through hoovers and he may want to ensnare you again and that is why closure is denied.

  8. Bibi says:

    I had some CDs that he burned for me. I cut them up and threw them away.

    The bracelet can be sold at a pawn shop. Use the money to buy yourself a new bracelet.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Good work Bibi.

    2. K says:

      If I were a narcissist, I would not hoover you, Bibi.

      1. realitysetsinnn says:

        Maybe Bibi’s was a lesser. As I said I left them and never looked back. They did stock me though and it took awhile to get rid of them. But the greater! Shit! Master player on the scene. They are too good to let themselves look weak or needy in anyway. You can’t win with a greater! Damit! I changed my numbers with the lessers and then they were pretty much gone. The greater….hmm well I have changed my number 4 times and he has always had my new numbers! Because of me that is!

        1. K says:


          Now that you mention it, I think Bibi did date a lesser and they usually don’t have the energy to pursue escaped appliances for long. However, the greater is usually well fueled and has the energy/malice to sustain a longer hoover campaign. Plus, they have all that lovely charm in their tool box, so it is much more difficult for you to resist. The seduction is wonderful and awful because it keeps you in situ… they are master chess players and emotional thinking is not easy to get control of when you are hooked on the golden period. He would probably have my number, too!

  9. Nan says:

    This is the first accurate description of what it’s like working with one. Im at war with my lesser because he knows im through w him, so he will do his best to destroy me at work. It’s excruciatingly complicated of course.

  10. realitysetsinnn says:

    That is why I am keeping my Tiffany’s bracelet that he gave me in the golden period. His residue will never leave me. So at least I have something pretty on my arm! I Just turned it into Tiffany’s a few days ago…it’s being sent off to Tiffany’s in New York to be professionally cleaned and buffed and the clasp replaced. I never take it off. It is my war metal. I earned it. I love it and I will wear it. I mean if the residue of him will always be there anyways….I look at it this way, at least something good came out of it! The bracelet has a heart on it and this reminds me to guard my heart. When we broke up I actually gave the bracelet to a friend and told her to do whatever she wanted with it. Then a few years later I wanted it back and I was able to get it back. It felt like a piece of me was missing without it. It felt right to put it back on. It’s mine! Like I said I earned it. It’s my war metal for bravery and survival. I know I sound all dramatic but that’s how it is and how I feel! I did tell him that I got rid of it. Then I told him I have it again. I know he doesn’t care but that is not the point!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. Whilst it is correct that the emotional infection will always remain, the aim is to reduce it to its lowest level and build your resistance.
      2. Adopting the approach of “I remain infected anyway so I may as well keep this” is a manifestation of emotional infection. You have ever presence around your wrist.
      3. You told him that you have bracelet again
      (a) There was no need to tell him – the compulsion to do so is the manifestation of emotional thinking. By engaging with him you fed the infection.
      (b) How did you tell him? In person, by message, on the telephone?

      I note you refer to giving it to a friend some time ago – that was the correct step to take. It appears a number of years have passed – has there been a solid no contact over this time period?

      1. realitysetsinnn says:

        No there has not been a solid no contact. We have talked both on the phone and by email sporadically. Our last phone call in which he called me after I emailed him was almost a week ago. But that’s all it was just a 12 minute phone call nothing else. We didn’t speak about anything deep just how each other were doing. I ended the phone call because it was a bit awkward and he fought me off guard by calling me and not responding by text. There was no talk of communicating any further or the future just a quick phone call and he thanked me for the email and we spoke a bit nothing special or anything. Like I said it was quite awkward and I feel he forced himself to call. He is not pursuing me.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I appreciate your honesty in your response. So since the relationship ended there has been sporadic contact by telephone and e-mail. This has allowed the emotional infection to continue at a higher level than it should and this is resulting in your emotional thinking manifesting in the way it has, as per your comments.
          I note you state he is not pursuing you – but he is. I appreciate you mean that in the sense that he is not trying to resurrect your Formal Relationship again as (I assume partner or boyfriend and girlfriend) and in that regard you are doubtless correct (though that could change) but he is pursuing you for fuel and that is what is happening through these continued interactions, which are not necessary.

          1. realitysetsinnn says:

            Oh ok. Well I never see it as that I guess because all this time accept a few occasions I have been the one to reach out first and then he either ignored me or he decides to respond. When he does decide to respond on very few occasions it is always he calls me almost immediately after receiving the message. However when he decides to ignore me…..well he flat out ignores me and never responds. So I have not been reaching out the last two years as much as I did in the past. However I think I have only been able to not reach out to him for about two months tops. So he has ignored me way more than responded. So that’s why I thought that. I know I shouldn’t and I am determined to not reach out anymore. This has been a struggle but like I said it’s hit and miss with him and we haven’t seen each other in person for 3 years. A couple of times he almost talked me into a meeting with him but I always ended up changing my mind out of fear. He knows that. I have been super honest with him about all of my fears and feelings towards him. He knows I miss him and still have feelings for him. He just doesn’t care really. I know this. So I am going to try very hard to not reach out to him.

          2. NarcAngel says:


            There is no try in block.

    2. On My Journey says:

      I do the same with my Hermes bracelet … last Christmas gift. I can’t take it out

      1. realitysetsinnn says:

        Yes…I know it is hard. It’s just that it’s all I have of him now. I just can’t bring myself to part with it. I feel as though I deserve it after all I’ve been through. Why should I get rid of a nice thing that I love and have the loss of it? It means so much to me. I have already suffered the loss of him. I deserve nice things and I am worth it. I know he’s not the same man he was when he gave it to me. Nobody has ever gotten me anything that nice before. I got rid of so many things he gave me in fact everything he gave me excluding this. Honestly I really just love the bracelet and I guess yes it’s all I have left of him as well. Like sentimental. I parted with it for a long while but I always regretted it. I may never receive a gift that nice again. I may never even have another relationship again. I hate to sound so materialistic and pathetic.

    3. K says:


      If I were your narcissist, I would hoover you and try to draw you back into the narcissistic cycle.

      You are overflowing with fuel.

      “I have been super honest with him about all of my fears and feelings towards him. He knows I miss him and still have feelings for him.”

      1. realitysetsinnn says:

        Lmao!!!!! Yes so sad isn’t it! Lol…hahaha….but some how I can still laugh at myself even though I know it’s really not funny. The lessers never had this affect on me….it’s the greaters that mind screw you into oblivion!🤪💔

        1. K says:

          Ha ha ha…it is ok to laugh, realitysetsinnn! It is part of the healing process, I think. And I agree, lessers are awful; I was entangled with one. Thank God I never met a greater because my midranger mindfucked me in spectacular fashion!

          1. realitysetsinnn says:

            Well I am only guessing he was a greater.
            Reasons I think he was greater…but I could be wrong.
            1. He was in very good control of his emotions.
            Never once raised his voice at me.
            2. He was super patient. He spoke with a calm cool demeanor. Yes he was very calm.
            3. He was just so in control of himself, very confident….and had a good career.
            4. Super intelligent…maybe not emotionally but otherwise.
            5. Always seemed to stay a step ahead of me. He would let me spin and spin and he would just watch and then when I stopped he would continue on.
            6. He never showed jealousy and he told me when I asked him about if he ever feels jealous…he said yeah but you would never know it because I would never show it. I was like ummm ok!
            7. I could not manipulate him for very long. Maybe for one second but then he was right back on top. That’s a hard one to explain and it’s a long story. But anyways those are just a few things that to me make him a greater in my mind. For all I know he may be a mid ranger. Who knows….but I definitely know he is not a lesser for sure. I have dated them and they are so out of control of themselves and they hide very little in the way of expressing anger and rage! They scare the prey away before they have a chance to rip them apart. Most times that is….at least with me I heeded the warnings and knew they could be dangerous to my heath in More ways then one. I eventually came to that conclusion with the greater as well….the biggest difference is I am not still hung up on the lessers. But I am still mourning the greater and all of the things we could have done together and the life we could have had. At least what I thought we could have had. The illusion! His hold on me was way more intense. I didn’t love the others. I think I loved him. I mean the illusion.

          2. K says:


            After reading your comment, I am pretty sure you had a greater. You described HG. One step ahead, hides his jealousy and always in control.

            My lesser was so insignificant that I hardly ever think about him but I know exactly what you meant when you wrote:

            “But I am still mourning the greater and all of the things we could have done together and the life we could have had.”

            That was how I felt about my MMRN and, every once in a while, I still think of what could have been. I didn’t love the lesser illusion, but I loved the MMRN illusion. Everything with a greater would be more intense; you have your work cut out for you! Oh man…I feel for you!

  11. On my Journey says:

    HG… You many times said that you totally not think about the victims that you have disengaged from. Isn’t heavy though to carry all those residue ? What purposes do they serve if the person is no longer in your thoughts ?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I do not sit and reminisce about them. However, should they enter the sphere of influence then this causes a Hoover Trigger and this may be that for no apparent reason that person entered my head.
      If the person is not considered, they are not serving a purpose for me, but there is always the potential for them to do so.

  12. Carolyn says:

    My ex narc discarded me so I unfollowed him and told him to do the same and told me “no, you block me!”. It was a surprise to me, knowing that it is usually a victim’s idea to block the narc. But I didnt do it (why would I block him on his command?) and just kicked out from my followers. Soon he started hoovering me. But still I dont know why he told me to block him. He is the Greater and sometimes I think it was his way telling me “I am psycho, run!” but probably it was not – you are not the emphatetic creatures.

    1. Witch says:

      By telling you to block him, he knew you wouldn’t. People don’t like being told exactly what to do. He was manipulating you. You should block him though.

      1. Carolyn says:

        Probably you are right. Something like “who are you to tell me to unfriend you? If you dont want to have any contact – block me, I dont care!” Knowing I won’t do that because he told me so he felt superior probably.

    2. K says:

      He knew you wouldn’t block him (because of your emotional thinking), which leaves the door open to future hoovers (for both positive and negative fuel) and the potential to draw you back into the narcissistic cycle again. He wants to keep the fuel tap open.

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