Me, You and Her



One is never enough for us. Two or more are required. When we commence our seduction of you and launch those missiles towards you bearing love, passion and desire, we repeatedly tell you that you are the one. You are the only one that we want. All of our life we have waited for this moment to be with the one, you. This singularity of number meets singularity of purpose. One is all that we want. We tell you this, we text you this and we do some repeatedly in order to put you on that pedestal. The world may as well just be populated by you and me. Nobody else matters. All that we want is you and you alone. The effect of such words makes you feel extremely special, revered and worshipped and it feels wonderful doesn’t it? Being the sole recipient of our attention, such wonderful, dedicated and loving attention is uplifting, joyful and magnificent.

Recently a commenter posted a quote from Robert A Heinlein which revolved around kissing. Essentially, this quote referred to the fact that when most people kiss they are not putting their all into it, they have other things on their mind, they might be worrying about work, they know they have to put the rubbish out, they are wondering what is for dinner and as a consequence that person’s kiss is nowhere near as it should be because that person has distractions. The person they are kissing does not have their total attention. There is considerable merit in such a proposition. What we manage to do however is make you think that nobody else matters, that you are the only person we are kissing, have ever kissed and will ever kiss. We make you the centre of our universe and you believe it. Yet the reality is that whilst we exhibit this singularity of attention on you, we have so many other people in mind. Understand that when you are with one of our kind there is never a time when it is just you and me. There is always you, me and her or him or them. Your dynamic with us is not exclusive. It never is. It is not your sole preserve. You are shared throughout the entirety of your relationship with us, from the beginning until, well forever. I do not necessarily mean that we are engaged in a sexual relationship with someone else when we are with you but the fact is that when you think it is just you and I, there is far more going on that you will realise.

At the outset when I am seducing you, I make you feel like the only girl in the world, however there will be at least two other dynamics ongoing. The first is that I will be embarking on a cruel campaign against your predecessor. I will be considering how next to provoke them and punish them so I am able to draw negative fuel from them. I will undoubtedly tell you about them as I explain how horrible and abusive that person was to me. What you are less likely to know is that I am sending them abusive messages, stalking them and organising various methods of manipulation to keep punishing them.

The second dynamic at the outset is the fact that I may also be working on another prospect as well as you. In the extremely unlikely event that you ever had access to my mobile  ‘phone and you looked in the messages you would see something like this.

“Message to You 19:48 – I cannot stop thinking about you. What have you done to me? I love it though. I cannot wait to see you tomorrow even though it is too long to wait for my aching heart.”

“Message to Her 19:50 – I cannot stop thinking about you. What have you done to me? I love it though. I cannot wait to see you tomorrow even though it is too long to wait for my aching heart.”

There may even be,

“Message to Her 2 19:52 – I cannot stop thinking about you. What have you done to me? I love it though. I cannot wait to see you tomorrow even though it is too long to wait for my aching heart.”

Notoriously greedy for fuel and wary of the effects of not having a supply of the same, we will ensure that we have other targeted prospects in hand. You may become the chosen one as my primary source of fuel but the others will not necessarily be discarded. They will be retained as “friends” who rank as high producing secondary appliances, continuing to supply me with fuel. You think you have me to yourself. Of course that is the impression that I will create but you are sharing me with the others who will be kept ready to replace you should you start to fail in your production of fuel.

During the golden period it may seem that there is just you and me but I will be keeping other prospects warm and extracting negative fuel from one or more predecessors in the meanwhile. Then, without warning you find yourself being devalued. You have your suspicions that we are playing away. Indeed, we are as we use these secondary sources that we have kept “warm”. There will be others as we find additional people to draw into our network as we play them off against you. You will find you will be compared to these people, to friends and family and always found to be wanting as we press the devaluation against you. After this horrendous time, we will cast you to one side with a callous discard and somebody else has replaced you. How did that happen so quickly? How were we able to move with unseemly haste and find someone else who we now declare our love for? Easily. They were waiting in the wings all along.

Now disengaged from you will find you are still involved in the dynamic as we play you against your replacement. We will keep trying to draw negative fuel from you and then suddenly hoover you back and make you the apple of our eye again, as your short-lived replacement is cast aside. A period of vacillation may follow as we lift you up and crash you down. You are sat on one end of a see saw, as you go up, she goes down and vice versa. We stand in the centre, straddling this see saw and gobbling up all the fuel that is pouring from you both.

As our primary source you will always find that there is somebody else involved in the dynamic of our relationship. It does not end there though with the person who is our primary source of fuel. This addition of an extra player in the game happens throughout all our fuel gathering activities. We set family member against family member, our brothers against our sisters, or one parent against another. We treat one child as golden and the other as a pariah as we have them compete for our blessing and affection. We pit one colleague against another as they vie for that promotion which lies in our gift. We have friend fighting against friend in order to spend time with us at the expense of the other. We enter the online realm and have people backbiting, clashing and competing all through a few keystrokes on the keyboard. We can never be satisfied with it being just you and me, we always have to involve others and that involvement cannot be harmonious. There must be competition in order for the fuel to flow. Never think that we are dedicated to just you, our need for fuel does not allow it. There is always someone else despite what we may tell you. If you were ever able to ascertain the full extent of our machinations, schemes and plans you would see so many lines radiating away from us, connecting us to you, to her and to many others, with lines running between the unknowing and knowing until it looks like an extremely complex organogram on the wall of an incident room in a police station.

It can never just be you and me. There always has to be another.

59 thoughts on “Me, You and Her

  1. Mattina says:

    My narcs “other” is facebook. As much as he denies stuff that I have actually seen on his FB account, even bringing it to his attention, he still denies it. This and many of your other posts have really opened my eyes.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Jolly good.

  2. NarcAngel says:


    No wonder all your toasters are 4 slots wide
    I keep your bread all toasty in two
    While you butter the other side

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You rascal, but I approve.

  3. NarcMagnet says:

    Have you ever had an IPPS who not only knew of your varied affairs, but didn’t care?

    I found myself in that position with my first nex. He pushed me into an open relationship.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No. They either do not no, or if they do, they care.

  4. Blueberry says:

    And now I am the predecessor of the new supply (actually his ex before me) and we switch places and he might punish me? Sounds like a roulette

  5. SadSteffi says:

    This is what I struggle with the most and where I have difficulty reining in my emotional thinking. The fact that I’m only his shelf DLS & he to all intents & purposes is living with his partner and her children like a committed family man. This makes me think I am worthless compared to her & I can’t bear to consider that because I’m out of sight & therefore I’m also out of mind – whereas he is still always in my mind. Even though he is untrustworthy & has obviously cheated on her this might be because although he doesn’t want to hurt her, he can’t help himself & feels bad about it. I can’t compete with her, they have so many things in common.
    I need everyone’s support still, I don’t want to feel like this any longer….

    If he has granted his partner a respite period, is he (cerebral MRN) likely to have another DLS/IPSS on the go who is not shelved? What about if he is devaluing his partner? Is that why I’m dumped on the shelf?

    Thank you

  6. M. says:

    So true. One is never enough for him – I was always triangulated. Always .His wife too-I sometimes wonder , has she realised it by now? They have been together for 2 years and he has never stopped chacing women, not for one moment. One of his girlfriends told me she got access to his account. She found messages to a 100 women!At the same time! It is crazy. The craziest thing of all, the most dishonest, is that he acts like each of these women is the centre of his world, as HG writes. He wants them-us-to believe that. It is the hearts he is after, not the bodies. He needs to have each and every one of these 100 hearts captured.

    1. Bibi says:

      You know it is interesting. Remember that trite adage we were told as girls: ‘Guys only want one thing!’

      LOL like this is the 1950s. But it turns out that ‘thing’ we were told they wanted is NOT what they want, but rather, the fuel that thing brings.

      After all, if all they wanted was that ‘thing’ there would be no reason to online seduce.

    2. blackunicorn123 says:

      Your last line reminded me of Christina Perri’s song, “Jar of Hearts”. ..

      1. Bibi says:

        Blackunicorn (great name BTW). Yes I know that song and it is on point about a narcissist hoover.

        For those who don’t know of the song. And HG, you too. Narcissists are not excluded:

    3. Kensey says:

      This is me. Except I was the wife of 2 yrs. He left the house in a rage one night so quickly, did not close out his desktop email tabs. The back & forth I saw was beyond sick. He even flirt message on the Link In professional site. He had MIA excuses for all of them from being in hospital for operation to doing charity month long work. Not. The wife has intuition as I am sure you do, did,also. HG may disagree but I think a woman’s intuition is a hicup for a Narc.( Hindsight maybe those times were only when wanted me to stay for fuel /appearances.) My ex had to work extra hard with the BS when my antenna was up & my words were flowing faster than his gas light could turn on. Of course when I was moved to the purgatory position of devalue-discard my intuition was boring & I was cra cray. I used to hate on all the women he wrote trying to fighting a hundred ghosts. It’s so nice to have cut the cancer out. Glad you have your life back, sister. Godspeed.

    4. M,

      “He needs to have each and every one of these 100 hearts captured.”

      Holy hell, this comment totally resonates with me. That is how I feel as well. He just wanted to capture my heart. As soon as he had it (and had me physically thereafter) he just seemed to flip a switch and go “Meh!”

      And the worst part about that is that he chastised me for it too. “You are too attached to me, you feel too strongly for me, you should not feel that way blah blah blah…”

      At one point he also said I was so attached to him that I was like a “corporeal appendage”.

      (EYE ROLL)

  7. Agnes says:

    HG, you say that: “Former IPPS disengaged from. Narcissist has new IPPS. N has no interest in former IPPS, no malice campaign. Therefore no hoover of former IPPS during golden period for new IPPS.”

    So if my narcisstic ex who left me 6 months ago tries to hoover me every 2 weeks (some neutral texts, fact finding, wanting to be friends and so on) it means that he doesn’t have a new IPPS or that he has but they are not in the golden period and he is devaluing her? He is a really handsome and intelligent guy and he has a new job so probably he meets many new people right now and that’s why I can’t believe he doesn’t have anybody after 6 months since discarding me. But still it is strange he contacts me so regularly.

    1. HG Tudor says:


      Why is it strange? There is a Hoover Trigger and the HEC are easily met so he hoovers you, after all, you are committing no contact suicide by keeping open electronic conduits.

      1. Agnes says:

        I know, you are right. But I couldn’t block him right after the discard. It would cause my head spinning 1000 x more. I just wasn’t emotionally ready to do that. I needed more answears. After 3 months I started ignoring his texts because I realized it was a total BS. Honestly, It was impossible 6 months ago. Now it is not a problem because when I read his lame texts my heart no longer beats and now I feel I am finally ready to block him – his messages started to bug me. I got my answears – because I read your blog and because I see how he operates, your theory coincides with his moves so yeah, it’s time to do some blocking 🙂

      2. Lori says:

        Ok I have a question on this hoovering thing. If you are ipss and we’re replaced with new ipss and he’s passively hoovering does that mean the new one is already being devalued?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          No. The IPSS is more likely to be placed on the shelf and a different one engaged with. They then may be placed on the shelf and you are hoovered to come off the shelf. There can be multiple IPSSs and none need be devalued for their to be interaction with another one. devaluation of IPSSs is shorter and not sustained.

      3. Lori says:

        Yep makes sense but here’s the thing. This guy is an anchor situation. To me it always appeared the the ipss s went thru the same cycle as the ipps. I mean it would always appear that there was one main ipss and that another was getting devalued or shelved that he would tire of ipss the same as he did ipps.

        I know I have been shelved but the guy is passively hoovering he’s blocked and unblocked me more times than I can count so finally just quit talking to him. I don’t frequent where he is he is coming where I am. if I’m ipss it seems he would just engage. That is the dynamic I don’t get

  8. All out of Fuel says:

    Yeah pretty much this. It was either about his wife, his coworker or his best friend.

    One thing that now sticks out was when he wanted to talk to me about his best friend. He did not even have anything to say either. It went like this….

    Him: “You remember my best friend, don’t you?”
    Me: “Yes, Alex. What about him?”
    Him: “Oh nothing. I just wanted to hear you say his name.”

    WTF? LOL. So fucking weird.

  9. Kensey says:

    Have not post for awhile. Been a very busy warrior. I’m 4 days out from NC..still driving to my new life. I feel like ‘sleeping with the enemy’ meets ‘red sparrow’! I won’t over share but after reading this & feeling so helplessly triangulated for YEARS while watching money$ mysteriously disappear out of joint account I feel empowered. My lawyer is subpoena his other supply’s bank accounts! If nothing that will be a double injury. By happenstance I met this amazing attorney who survived a Narc and is thriving. I know this is just the beginning & it’s going to take time to learn to duck the rages that are to come. I just want peace & joy.

  10. H. says:

    I have a question for all of us.

    Do you consider it cheating, if the Me, You and She is an on-line entanglement only?

    I found that my ex narc was on line, never meeting these women, but in a full fledged Golden Periods. The workdlove was used a lot.

    I learned that the nasty ways he acted out at me, had to do with who he had on the social media string; And there were many of them.

    I think emotional entanglements are no easier to deal with than physical cheating.

    His excuse to justify this behavior was that he was never physical with them, and I was jealous and insecure. I think I never caught the physical fuel sources.

    The emotional cheating hurts as much as the physical infidelity.

    1. Blueberry says:

      Experienced the same, while I had actually met him IRL. But he love talked to multiple women online, professing love and even proposals. I do consider it the same as if it would happen IRL, bc emotions are the same, virtual world, or not

      1. H. says:

        Not only that, but depending on where he was in his process, I would be treated accordingly. It took me long enough to figure it out, but once I was on to him, I could make the correspondence to his shitty behavior.

    2. E B says:

      Hello H.,

      I am sorry your ex did that to you. There is a difference between being friendly and being flirtatious. There are some cultural differences and some people are more friendly than others but if your ex was in a Golden Period with other women, this is emotional cheating and this is why it hurts.

      “His excuse to justify this behavior was that he was never physical with them, and I was jealous and insecure.”

      You are not being jealous or insecure at all, H. People like him will also tell their partners that virtual or telephone sex is not cheating because there is no physical contact. Or they will find some other excuse like Clinton when he said he had not had sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky.
      Those are excuses to avoid taking responsibility for their actions.

    3. sarabella says:

      I did an experiment on him last year before I went silent and I am almost on my 12 month aniversar. I knew that he had blown another “relationship” because I could tell by the poor girls’ posts. I also sensed that he was very low on fuel, having been ‘dumped’ by the people he dumped me for. He was on this big ride afterall which is why he had discarded me. Nothing new about that, he was always cheating on everyone. Well, I figured, he is low on fuel, I had anonymously helped to blow up that fling, and I thought, I wonder if his low status will result in him being ‘nicer’ to me. Will this low fuel theory work such that no matter what I had said and ‘done’ to him, it would not matter if it was a chance to ressurect a source of fuel. (I had called him a narc, psychopath, sick, perverted, pathological liar and more…) Any my little experiment showed me that that my hunch was correct. He was all nice to me and all…

      To piggy back on line emotional connections, I also remember how when he came on so hot and heavy with me online, I was his long lost love as he claimed, from our childhood when we crossed paths (he has wanted to find me and more), I assumed that this meant he was really genuine in many things he told me. I respoded to all of that melting like bonding in a way where I was assuming he and I were an item. He picked up on on it and begane to attack me for it. Telling me that there was no us, that why was I acting like we were an item and on and on. That part bothers me that I even bothered to listen to him after he started that game. Well, I acted that way because he invited that type of emotional bond. That’s why. Then I got blamed for it when he has some other distraction and didn’t want responsibility any longer for what he had generated.

      Then of course, when I treated him like a monster for what he had done, then HE was the poor victim, why was I treating him like a monster.

      Really sick.

      1. H. says:

        Yea I figured it out based on the flavor of certain posts. I didn’t pay attention to his social media pages for 4 years. But we always had tension because he was on his phone texting. One day I made the decision to find out the real truth.

        I was more upset about the lies than the golden periods he was having on line. But that was part of his fuel matrix. He always needed to know that I loved him, over and over and over and over. One word: Exhausting.

        The thing is, he was so tiring to me, and I had to give him so much attention. Only to find out, that he was doing the exact same thing to women he was cat fishing on Face Book.

        Uggg…I am still so infected by his disease. It feels like its going to take years to get it behind me.

      2. sarabella says:

        Yeah, sadly, it will take years. My involvement was so much less, and it has taken quite some time for me to feel ok though I still have a heavy grief in my chest at times. Mostly because he was someone from my past and it was horrifically hurtful because of that (hurting someone twice like that!) so it did involve a ton of things I had to go through to heal how it happened…. You will work through it and go on to live a good life….

      3. E. B. says:

        Hi Sarabella,

        Congratulations on reaching the one-year mark 🙂

        “Will this low fuel theory work such that no matter what I had said and ‘done’ to him…(I had called him a narc, psychopath, sick, perverted, pathological liar and more…)… ”

        From your perspective, you were verbally abusive to him but narcissists see this kind of interaction differently. He did not care when you called him sick and perverted. He must have felt powerful because he made an empath like you lose their temper and call him names. He knows this is not in your nature. He thinks he successfully manipulated you like a puppet into giving him negative fuel and you were unaware of it.

        Narcissists do not regard relationships in the same way that we do. Since they cannot bond, they can only interact with other people. From their perspective, they are not in a relationship with anybody to start with.

        Maybe it helps if you understand that your ex sees you as an appliance with a fuel button. You are ON when you interact with him and give him positive or negative fuel or you are OFF. If you call him names, you give him negative fuel. If you make an experiment and give him your attention, you give him fuel. Either way he is the one controlling you and not the other way round.

        1. sarabella says:

          Its a good point that he didn’t see my behavior as abusive. And I do understand that from his perpective, it was fuel from my experiment. It did confirm the fuel part. But when I did that, and I let loose, truth is, I was letting go of a whole lot of my own rage. Rage at my sister and mother. Rage at some unfair things in my life. Rage at all the hurt deliberately wrought on me by people my whole life. So while he thought what you said, from my reality, it was pure therapy. If he wanted to take my abuse then it was great for me to be that angry. My whole life I took that anger out on myself. This time I had a punching bag and how great that it was he who broke my heart ages ago. I really worked through alot. I mean it. I got brave, I stood up to my fears, I stopped caring about him and just went to town. And then one day, I just stopped. I was spent. A huge fire in me had died.

          What made my anger different this time was I did it for myself. I chose to be angry. I gave myself permission to full on rage on him. And then one day I just said to myself, I am done. Decades of anger finally released.

          But having done that, I know that it took its toll and I can’t go there again. I calmed my anger and in that process, I learned a bit about self-control over the parts of me that narcs get a hold of. That part he did first use to control me. That won’t happen again

          And its 52 weeks today! But thanks because that helped me to forgive myself for what was abusive.I’d he never saw it that way, then my conscience can be cleared around him. I have no reason to carry that anymore.

          1. E. B. says:


            He did see your behaviour but he did not care because it was your *emotional reaction* what mattered to him. It does not matter *what* you say but the *emotion* attached to your reaction/behaviour.

            It is good to know that you were able to release your repressed anger and that it was therapeutic.
            I felt something similar when I sent letters to the MMRNs. Although I had written letters without sending them as advised, my anger and frustration got worse with time. I would have become physically ill if I had not made myself heard and if I had not cut off contact with the whole group. I knew they were laughing behind my back and thought how stupid I was to trust them and to spend so much time helping and doing things for them while they were betraying me and smearing me behind my back. People I had a relationship with shunned me and I used to make all kinds of excuses because I could not have imagined that the ‘poor lambs’ were slandering me. This injustice was too much to endure. I made myself heard and I was able to get something back I would have lost if I had not done it. These narcissists made me believe I was powerless when it was not true.

            [Just in case people who read this are thinking of doing something similar, I would not advise others to do it. Please consult with HG first. There are different types of narcissists and NPD is usually comorbid with other disorders.
            Emotional interactions can be videotaped and emotional text messages or letters can be forwarded to family, friends, work colleagues and other acquaintances of the victim. These videos and text messages with the target’s emotional reaction can be used by narcissists and Lieutenants to back up their lies that the target is crazy or an abuser. The victim may end up losing relationships, their job or being arrested.]

          2. sarabella says:

            That still works for me I think. I can’t undo that he got my emotional reactions but if he didn’t care, then that works for me to soothe the part of me that doesn’t treat people. If he didn’t care, then I caused no damage. Certainly makes sense as to why he kept coming back for more. Not because he loved me and couldn’t bare to lose me, but because I didnt really harm him and fuel was more important. Though I suspect, somewhere deep down, it did affect him to some small degree. A lifetime of treating people that way and hearing their contempt, rage and hatred has to have some impact unless they are really far down on the spectrum.

            I was where you were. It would have made me very sick in a specific way had I not gone after him to get my money back and to mirror back the level of denigrations he had hurled at me. He had stolen so much from me, in ways only survivors would vet, that I just could not let him get away with it.

            And agree with your caution to others. He does have alot of “material” he could use on me, but he never did. It sometimes bothers me but he lives in another country so exposing that stuff wouldn’t really affect me that much. It would hurt more than harm my life. So for others, I so agree

          3. E. B. says:


            I think it was the right thing for you to do. You gave him back his projections, you got back what belonged to you and you were able to restore your health without putting yourself at risk. I do not personally agree that I should *always* forget what abusive people did to me, pretend to go on with my life as if nothing ever happened (denial) and accept a doormat mentality. It depends on what people did to me as this can vary and what possibilities I have to repair the damage. The same applies to revenge. If someone has committed a serious crime, they should pay for it. If not, laws and prisons would not exist.

            From what I have seen, if you gave narcissists something tangible or intangible in the past, they may hoover you when they need it again, sometimes several years later, and they cannot get it from somebody else. Your ex may hoover you again but you can keep ignoring him.

            I know some of the things I said to two different narcissists had affected them. When I first told them those things they pretended they did not care but later their behaviour showed the opposite. After all, both narcissists and targets come from a dysfunctional system with power imbalance, control, strict rules, humiliation, sarcasm, put downs, name calling, fear, guilt. Our wounds are very similar.

            Yes, I wrote a warning because I feel responsible for what I write. People may take our comments out of context. There are new readers who come from other blogs where they use terminology like, covert or toxic narcissist and so on. I find this not only inaccurate but it can put women at risk. It is not the same to handle MMRNs who live states away or in another country and it is highly likely they will not travel to hoover their targets than to deal with intimidating Lessers or LMRNs, who start drinking at 09.00 a.m., take drugs, live near their targets and are unpredictable.

          4. sarabella says:

            “What hurts the victim most is not the cruelty of the oppressor, but the silence of the bystander.” ~ Elie Wiesel

            In the end, this is part of what drove me. When I think of the story, of how he lied about the truth of what he did to me as a young girl, pretended to be sorry, seemed to feel remorse, but then repeated it all, and that what he used against me was something which involved others, brought back a mountain of childhood hurt I had for being separated from people which I had to relieve due to what he did again, and that he triangulated me with others from literally decades ago, used that to oppress me, and when I tried to get emotional help from others who knew him, they offered some but then just said, move on, forget him, this is what drove me. Since no one was going to stand up to him, and never really has as I can see, even as they know who he is, then this is what hurt the most.

            I had a woman I didn’t know that well (part of our childhood though, from a unique country in time and place), reach out to me when I lost my brother. I was touched and I thought she was reaching out to me personally. Few people do reach out to me in my life. And when I found out that he had actually put her up to it, I was hurt again. I tried to tell her that the narc set her up, but she thinks she is too smart for that, in that lala land of being a good person, partial, lawyerly (she is a lawyer) and just, so she refused to take sides and told me to not think the worst. I have pretended for a while, that it was ok, just to save some face, but now I know she never reached out to me because of me and am slowly not ever going to remind her I am out here in social media and then just remove her eventually. It was incredibly crafty of him to go to her, she who had NO IDEA that he and I had a ‘relationship’ (of course, to him we never had one at all, not even friendship), and ask her to reach out to me and see how I was doing. That just absolutely blew me away. He even lied about my brother who had died, pretended he knew my brother too when I was young and he didn’t ever know I had one. Why ever go to such lengths was mind boggling. How easy it would have been, had this happened a few years before I got more understanding of narcisissm dynamic, for me to think, wow, that guy really loved me, looked how he tried to ask someone to care for me. 🙁 It hurt even more that he used us both for that game. Using me probably as a reason to talk to her as he was often all flirty with her. Using me to paint that false image of himself as a caring guy.

            No, my revenge wasn’t revenge. It was righting the stolen power. And even if it was revenge at times, it was something that had to be done. Or I would have become very sick, likely never bounced back if I had not found it in me to do what I did. I honestly don’t think I could have ever coped knowing he got my money, walked away, and had done nothing but taken advantage of how much he knew I loved him when he never loved me one bit. It just couldn’t, it was wrong on so many levels.

            I know his and my wounds are similar. I attacked him right at one of those wounds. But why should I feel badly? That same wound in me, he USED to get to me, to work me, to humiliate me, to triangulate me and more from day one only I never quite knew how and that this is what was going on, but also before I even understood where his own wound are. It still sometimes makes pause some at how I went from such joy and thrill, thinking he cared and had come back for me, wanting to make it right with me, to becoming someone who was did everything I could to hurt him as badly as I could ever possibly imagine. He was on the offensive covertly, but nevertheless, always on some attack on me as I look back. Yet the moment I moved from defense to offense, I was the one who had to watch my tongue, watch my words, bad girl.

            He just won’t ever hoover me. Hoovering needs some angle. He has none. I am just someone he really never knew. He had created this false bond between us that was possible only because of that history. Once he badly played one of his cards, the last card and the only one tha thad make his whole game work, he removed its power. I am a stranger and he has no calling card into my life anymore.

            Your caution to others has been well described. I am in no physical risk to him nor can he cause damage to my work life or home life. Though when things were at their peak if we had been nearer, it would have been really bad, really bad. The sky high war we were waging could have really resulted in physical damage especially as I think, on some strange level, way back then, not now, he didn’t to let me go. I had a tiny, tiny glimpse of who he once was, like the little boy HG once was, and I know that little boy didn’t want to let me go, he even clung to me once. But it was only a tiny glimpse and the rest of him would have “killed” me had he needed to to survive.

            PS E.B> I have always liked your posts and our interactions. There is something about them….

          5. E. B. says:

            Hi Sarabella,

            I loved your quote and I understand how you feel.

            “Since no one was going to stand up to him, and never really has as I can see, even as they know who he is, then this is what hurt the most. ”

            This is exactly how I felt. There is no excuse that people are silly, gullible or easy to manipulate. Those who really knew you and him but did nothing or told you to forget and to move on with your life are not good people. What they did to you is Betrayal. They are allowing the narcissist to abuse you and telling you indirectly that you deserve the abuse.
            They probably get something from the narcissist or they are looking forward to getting something from them in the future. I saw that with my father. It is easier to align with the perpetrator than with the target. Some of them know that if they stand up to the narcissist, they will be isolated from the group. They do not support you but they usually expect you to support them when they need you.
            Lack empathy, selfishness, no sense of guilt, they do not want to be made accountable. They do not care.

            Healthy people who really know you would support you. I would feel guilty if I knew that people I like and appreciate have been abused and traumatized and that I did nothing to help or that I invalidated them.

            “she refused to take sides and told me to not think the worst… ”

            By contacting you and becoming the narcissist’s Lieutenant she took his side, Sarabella. She did not care about what you had to say, she believed him. She did this to you while you were mourning. Lack of tact and empathy. I hope she becomes his next victim. I would block her.
            She is clearly on your ex’s side and may give him information about you.
            This is one of the reasons why I am not on social media. We attract narcissists from the past and present. They now know who your partner, friends and family are, they turn them against you. They turn social media into a bullying playground.

            “He just won’t ever hoover me. Hoovering needs some angle. He has none… ”

            If you are on social media or you are in contact with people he knows, he may use them as Lieutenants, just like he did with your acquaintance (lawyer).

            “I am just someone he really never knew… I am a stranger and he has no calling card into my life anymore. ”

            He might have told you that to get Thought Fuel but he cannot deny that he had a relationship with you and he knows you. I hope he does not hoover you but I think that he will do it if he considers it necessary. Narcissists will recycle people after several years as if nothing had happened.

          6. sarabella says:

            He did recycle me. After 30 years. 😢

            But this was before I realized so, so much. He was emphatic that we had no relationship. Nothing at all between us. It was most confusing that when he and I were “active ” that he said this when I talked about “he and I” after he convinced me there was something between us. When in total bewilderment I said “I though you wanted to give it a chance this time, make it right wit us?” His response, “I don’t even know how to correct you.” Repeated many times in various ways,: nothing between us. If I hadn’t done total forensics on it all, I would have believed him, that I had made it all up. Delusional. I still wonder if I did project my need so intensely on him, that maybe he was right to a degree. I did get crazy obsessed. Logic is the only thing that helped me out of that spiral. I know what he led me to believe, what he preyed on but more importantly, how he did it, what card he played. Thats where he lost power as he used that card up. And he knows I know all about his filth.

            Yes, she took his side. She likes being charmed, I could tell. I didn’t know her well so it doesn’t bother me to not friend her anymore. But until I found this out, about 9 months after he had done it, I aways wondered about how he fit in to narcissism. To find it was just as HG described, was shocking. And I knew enough by then to know it wasn’t out of love or care. He was only playing a game.

          7. E. B. says:


            He hoovered you after 30 years! One of my narc ILs hoovered me after almost two decades (Thought Fuel). It was benign – a paper letter with a different name. Her narcissistic adult children and other Lieutenants called me but none of their calls got through. My PBX system is my firewall and nobody is allowed to touch it. I ignored all their hoovers and they gave up.

            “If I hadn’t done total forensics on it all, I would have believed him, that I had made it all up…”

            True. Unless we understand narcissism and mind games, it can be difficult to realize that they are gaslighting us. They do it all the time, not only with their IPs. When narcissists do not want to be made accountable, they deny not matter what and want us to believe that it never happened.

            It is good to know that you can see him for who he is now.

          8. sarabella says:

            I still grieve over it. He never took the time to get to know me. He never got to know who I am, my soul, anything about me really. After 30 years, after hurting me so badly, he just did it again. I never thought he could have done what he did. I thought that someone who pretended to be so aware of what he had done the first time, could have ever been repeated. I know now why, but when it was actively happening, it was beyond comprehension how someone could behave so cruelly and so sadistically. He never knew me, ever. And it never mattered to him that he didn’t or didn’t try.

            I still feel the hurt from it and I know it won’t ever go away. I live with it just like I did after he did this 30 p years ago.

            Its funny because he seemed like he had learned to be accountable, you know? That was his card in to my life. To pretend to be sorry, accountable and wanting to make amends. None was true. Maybe in some moment he was sorry, but not enough to not repeat it. And his accountability for not only himself but for how he treated me again was zero.

            I loved someone who didn’t exist and who didn’t love me back in any manner. And he had tricked me into believing he had. I could have suffered and gotten past this ages ago had it been anyone else. But after 30 years…. its has just never settled that it was all so contrived and such a lie. I don’t think it will ever feel good again

          9. E. B. says:


            It must be very painful what you are going through. Some narcissists are very good at giving fake apologies, showing fake empathy, false humility or concern and deceiving people. You opened yourself up to him, gave him your trust. He took advantage of it and used it against you. This is betrayal.

            “I still feel the hurt from it and I know it won’t ever go away. ”

            You do not have to live with this pain, Sarabella. The pain will go away if you work on healing your old wounds. It is hard work and it can take years. I am struggling and working through this and it is getting better.
            I would like to let you know more about it but I am afraid I do not have enough time at the moment. I will write to you again, Sarabella.

          10. sarabella says:

            The pain a few years ago when I was in it was just horrific. I never thought anyone could do what he did. The pain of confusion, betrayal, the abuse. Being taken advantage of. Violated. I didn’t think that would ever go away. That depth of sheer pain is gone, but I still feel this ache. He BEGGED me to forgive him. Worked me hard and when I let him in …. I was in an angry bout the past few days. Remembering how he took the money I lent him for his survival (literally) and used it to lure 3 other women to see him. I was so angry and the only thing stopping me from reacting to it was HG’s description of tormenting someone on a tree mill until she reacted . That image made me not do a thing.

            I had no idea someone could fake remorse to this depth. Absolutely clueless.

            I find myself struggling with trust alot lately. Trust of even the most benign of relationships. And that makes me sad especially knowing he is probably working more people. He even used my money to bring an old flame back to see him. I can’t even step into a world where this all works for these people. Not an ounce of shame yet ironically, fully shame driven. 🙁

            Thanks EB. This is now 12 months since he and I have spoken. Time is moving on and yet I still am stuck. Not in horrid pain stuck, just something has been lost in my life. Hard to explain and that is what makes me the most sad.

          11. E. B. says:

            Hi Sarabella,

            I understand that you still feel stuck. It is too early to get rid of all the emotional chaos he has caused you.

            I think that trust is a problem for most of us. It takes me several years to fully trust someone. If their actions do not match their words, there is something wrong with them. I need to have some *proof* that what they say is true, no matter how convincing and trustworthy they may seem.

            If someone asks you to lend them money, this is a red flag. Do you have any proof that they are as poor as they seem to be? Most banks will grant their customers a consumer credit without asking any questions. Decent people will ask their bank first, they will not want to inconvenience family and friends. I am suspicious of anyone who pretends to be so poor that they make you feel pity for them and give them money. If they make you feel pity for them and also guilty for not helping them, this is manipulation (red flag).

            I do not trust appearances. There are also other narcissists who want to look successful in front of others and especially when ensnaring a victim to impress them. Expensive cars, designer clothes, a membership to an exclusive private club or expensive gifts are not proof that someone is successful. Tell me what you brag about and I will tell you what you lack.

            Another thing to take into account is that if your partner comes from a dysfunctional family *AND* he is enmeshed with them, he is not trustworthy. He can be easily manipulated with feelings of guilt, obligation or fear. Any personal information about you could be passed onto his narcissistic family and used against you.

          12. sarabella says:

            I see that now. And I could tell you but its long to type, all of the things that showed him I would fall for his pity play. I might as well have put out a sign that said, ‘Sucker for deperate poor people…”

            But what got me the worst was the betrayal and deception. I didn’t know he was so manipulative so when he pretended to be sorry, begged for my forgiveness from ages ago, really worked me, I thought if someone wants it this badly, then SURELY, they would never ever do stupid things to hurt me again. They would never jeapardize losing me again, even as a friend he claimed to be so sorry he hurt.

            That was the problem in my thinking. I assumed so much, didn’t I? I know its hard for most people in life to apologize for things. So I thought wow, what courage to do this… Must be real. Must mean he wanted to this time, make it right. I never knew people could in fact, fake remorse or mean it so flightingly in the moment, that the remorse was entirely unconnected to their own self awareness of their actions to not repeat what they did. Boy, was I wrong about all of that thinking. Every single point was wrong.

            Yes, the bragging part, I also fell for. Especially with all his ‘women’ not knowing that he had alot of reasons why women would reject him and have. I was so crazy about him as a young girl, I wouldn’t have ever known or cared about what I didn’t know back then. And so without that knowledge, I went into the adult ‘relationship’ with the same heart as a teenager. And he knew it, in fact, encouraged me to connect to that part of my life and our history. And then when he had me opened up, he attacked that part of me. And then I saw as an adult, what was part of the reason for his narcisissm (underdeveloped genetalia.. 🙁 ) in addition to cultural narcissism, machismo, and more… So he is all jacked up on narcissitic behaviors. But by then, it was too late.

            But I look at people who do what you describe now and see it in a whole new way. They reall are talking about what they lack..

          13. E. B. says:


            Men from a macho culture with underdeveloped sex organs must have a very low self-esteem. They cannot lead a normal life like going to public toilets, swimming or dating women. He has probably made it all up about all the women he was or is still seeing. He must have met one or two and must have tried to compensate his sexual problem by giving them gifts or money.
            Since he asked you to give him money, he does not seem to be successful at work or financially. I do not believe that he was in romantic relationships as he made you believe.

            “I didn’t know he was so manipulative so when he pretended to be sorry, begged for my forgiveness from ages ago, really worked me, I thought if someone wants it this badly, then SURELY, they would never ever do stupid things to hurt me again. They would never jeapardize losing me again, even as a friend he claimed to be so sorry he hurt.
            That was the problem in my thinking. I assumed so much, didn’t I?”

            There was nothing wrong with you when you expected to have a reciprocal relationship. You assumed he was honest and good people. Healthy people will not want to lose important people in their lives, not those who love them unconditionally and care about. You did not know he was a manipulator and that they sabotage part of their own lives by abusing those who care about them. I do not think that narcissists are clever when they damage these relationships. They get older. Sooner or later they will need some help. It was not clever of him to take advantage of you and abuse you. You are learning and growing stronger while he is digging his own grave.

            It is only when we learn about narcissistic traits and behaviour that we realize who we are dealing it. It does not matter how old we are. Had you known he was a pathological liar wanting to take advantage of you when you were young, you would not have been interested in him. I wish I had known about narcissism before.

          14. sarabella says:

            Honestly, I won’t ever know the truth of what his life is really like. When he and I first started talking, his stories were all about not finding a relationship/partner because where he lives, women have and need more than he had to give (money wise). Well, that’s cause I later found out, he is 53 looking at 18 year olds. 🙁 Then, later, when we were talking more deeply about “us” that never was, he suddenly is on this great Ride with people, having too much fun, can’t change it.

            I have never seen him ever with one consisent person and saw enough to see that all those people on his ride are gone from social media. I think they all bailed.

            I heard that yes, he just gives desperate girls phones, buys them a meal or a little thing here and there and because they are so desperate, to quote someone, “they will do anything” for those things. And that most of them don’t care at all for him, just take what they can get and what, give it up once in a while I guess for him.

            That made me feel worse hearing all that. There I was, pouring out real love (or so I thought, maybe I lied too, who will ever know) and was genuinely full of heart for him and he just didn’t care. Would much prefer radom girl he can losely buy off and likely, lots of prostitutes. But its as you say, in the end, it fails them because not only did he have that issue, he has ED. So life as a flaming somatic narc is crashing down on his life. I guess he was squeezing out those last little bits of sex while he could get it. And didn’t mind in the meantime, how he treated me because I never mattered to begin with.

            I sometimes feel blown away to think that young girl was so in love with him and then to see what became of his life, how he put me down, hurt my self-esteem and this is how his life turns out in the end. I should be glad, karm, but actually, it makes me feel worse that I ever even met him knowing now how he affected my life, my whole life. Not just the events the past years when he recycled me.

            I wish I had known, too, because I would have knowns how to interpret what he did to that young 14 year old girl. If I had known what he already was and likey, I was one (not THE) of his first practice victims… I would have never been as hurt as I was first time and then, yeah, second time, too.

            But he talked alot of his ‘portfolio’, was only married once, and pretty promiscuous but as far as real relationships? I don’t think he has had any really. Someone told me he was never happy in his relationships. And why does that make me even more sad that at least the second time around, he could have made some effort to get to know me and not lose me. But that’s the hope talking (not new hope, the old hope he reactivated), the hope that he was always so happy because I was the one for him. Or wait a minute, he once sort of planted that so maybe he was working his hoovering from teh moment he sent a FB request 10 years ago and started to talk to me and I didn’t even know it at the time that he was already working it even though from that request, 3 years passed before we ever really talked.

            Well, I made it. 12 months. I am officially a year of silence. I got this now… for sure. Thanks EB for talking all the time to write. It has helped me to get through this milestone.

          15. E. B. says:

            Hi Sarabella,

            “I have never seen him ever with one consistent person and saw enough to see that all those people on his ride are gone from social media. I think they all bailed…. ”

            He *talks* about having romantic relationships/affairs and people believe him. They do not know that he has underdeveloped genitals and an ED.
            He told you he was married once. Have you met his ex-wife? If so, did she tell you they got married? If not, you do not have any proof that he was married.

            I think he did not have romantic relationships with other women because he preys on young girls from underprivileged families.

            As soon as emotionally healthy women get to know him, they run. Just like you did when you saw his true self.

            “…when we were talking more deeply about “us” that never was, he suddenly is on this great Ride with people, having too much fun, can’t change it”

            More lies. He does not have enough money to have fun with other people. He cannot perform sexually.

            “…So life as a flaming somatic narc is crashing down on his life. I guess he was squeezing out those last little bits of sex while he could get it… ”

            ‘A flaming somatic narc’? – Ha ha. That made me laugh. 🙂 Do you think someone like him with underdeveloped genitals and an ED is a sexual Olympian?? I think he is a loser.

            [To clarify, I am not laughing at you, Sarabella.]

            “There I was, pouring out real love (or so I thought, maybe I lied too, who will ever know) and was genuinely full of heart for him and he just didn’t care… ”

            I do not think you lied to yourself. Your love was genuine. You did not know who he was.

            Why would he want to be loved if he cannot love and does not need/want it?
            If it helps, suppose that a friend gives you a CNC machine and you do not need it and you cannot fall in love with it. Do you think it would be possible for you to fall in love with it in the future or come to appreciate it someday?

            He did not care about you but it had nothing to do with you. He was not worthy of you.

            ” it makes me feel worse that I ever even met him knowing now how he affected my life, my whole life. Not just the events the past years when he recycled me. ”

            I am very sorry to hear that, Sarabella. I believe you that his abuse affected your whole life. It is hard to deal with trauma on our own without help.

            You said you met him when you were only 14. If he did something to you sexually, this was sexual abuse. It does not matter if he had your consent because you were in love with him. You were a minor.
            Having sexual activity with a minor, ****with or without consent****, is sexual abuse and a criminal offense.

            “…I later found out, he is 53 looking at 18 year olds. ”

            If he preyed on you when you were only 14, he is still probably doing it now.
            He is taking advantage of young girls from underprivileged families. Basic needs like food and clothes are not met. These young girls are not bad people. They are his victims. He is a repeat offender. I do not know why this is accepted in the country where he lives. He is lucky he is not in prison.

            These narcissists prey on neglected children and teens with emotional needs unmet. Young victims are trusting, gullible, emotionally needy, feel unloved by their parents and lonely. They have nobody to talk to or to protect them. This is one of the reasons why sexual predators are rarely exposed or sued.

            I read that these men make their young targets feel they are ‘special’. Young victims feel they are loved for the first time in their lives, that someone is paying attention to them. *Fake crumbs* young victims receive from the perpetrator are much more they have ever received in their short lives. These men make their young victims believe they were willing participants and enjoyed the abuse. These young girls and boys have a lot of shame and guilt. Predators know how to exploit vulnerabilities.

            I believe that building a sense of self-worth is the first step to stop being re-victimized by narcissists.

          16. sarabella says:

            Hi E.B. ,

            Yeah he lives in a country which has all but collapsed. He is a member of their “elite” so he had that added advantage to prey on young girls. No one cares there. There is no judicial system which works and people turn a blind eye because everyone either knows this is these girls only hope to survive, or because they are predatorial, too. The entire society is quite sick. I lived there when I was younger and it was bad, but not this bad. In these last decades, it has sunk even more I to extreme poverty and despair. I was 14, he was about 17. And based on what he said in one of his tells, he did see me as shy, vulnerable and a hurt person. He was young himself, learning the ways of his macho culture and you are right, someone just confirmed this the other day, so many males brag about conquests they never had. But the machismo adds the flaming part of his mannerisms.

            He was definitely married but I heard from a mutual friend that it’s possible he only married her because she came from another elite wealthy family. He wasn’t super wealthy but name and money is the only two things that set you apart from utter chaos and despair there. They knew each other since children. I guess, she kicked him out because of his list full life and absent parent. They still are friends. But I heard he made her life hell. But it is one thing that made me pause because I thought if she married gim, bore 3 kids, lived a life of hell, kicked him out, and are still friends, then what is wrong with me that I couldn’t tolerate even a year of his games? What a wierd comparison.

            I was very ignorant about men preying on girls like this for me to grasp why he never got a relationship. He is a narc, so he doesn’t do age well and only likes young beauty. Add to the plethora of desperate girls… willing to do whatever for even a meal… really sick and sad. And really, a pattern of life guys like him wouldn’t change for love. That life is a way out of the boredom of life there and the utter dysfunction of the society. I don’t think he even has the imagination for a different way of being.

            Yes, he took my money that was to help his struggling business and used it for his ride. And he had access to money coming in some time after, but he never tried to pay me until I went to town on him.

            But everyone believes his sexual sales job. He is cocky, confident in that narc way, bold, blunt, funny, humble as needed and all of that is what he sells. So many stay, even when they know. Another thing that for a long time, made me wonder if I expected too much of him, the situation and more. If they still all hung out, why was I having such a hard time. I understand more now about the brokenness of other women, too, but it was hard at first to see why they accepted all of his treatment. And it didn’t help when someone told me that they thought he wanted to destroy me even more than others, that he somehow holds back with them, not me. And that this was because he loved me. Gawd.

            I really offended him with that “love”. Lol. Some was true that I did, some was just the narc game, training me, using the outpour of emotions…

            And that’s all I am working on now. Rebuilding my self esteem. It was much, much higher before this and it amazes me in how roughly a short time, someone can do so much damage. This time, I think I am rebuilding my self-esteem in a real way, not papering over my life with the appearance that things are ok with me. I had to do that in alot of things, and it worked, but there were things not entirely grounded in that.

          17. E. B. says:

            Hi Sarabella,

            “But it is one thing that made me pause because I thought if she married him, bore 3 kids, lived a life of hell, kicked him out, and are still friends, then what is wrong with me that I couldn’t tolerate even a year of his games? ”

            The longer the abuse goes on, the longer it will take to recover. Some people have a higher tolerance for abuse than others but this does not mean that they are stronger or better. I think it is the opposite.
            It is surprising that he was able to become a father considering his problems.

            “he took my money that was to help his struggling business and used it for his ride. ”

            If he were wealthy, he would not have asked you to give him money for his business.

            “But everyone believes his sexual sales job. He is cocky, confident in that narc way, bold, blunt, funny, humble as needed and all of that is what he sells. So many stay, even when they know. Another thing that for a long time, made me wonder if I expected too much of him, the situation and more. If they still all hung out, why was I having such a hard time. I understand more now about the brokenness of other women, too, but it was hard at first to see why they accepted all of his treatment. ”

            He has a big mouth. That’s all. Those women who are *not* struggling with basic needs and find him a good guy seem to be as sick as he is. The majority is not always right.
            You were the only one who saw there was something wrong with him and his behaviour.

            “And that’s all I am working on now. Rebuilding my self esteem. … , but there were things not entirely grounded in that. ”

            This is the best we can do. Depending on how controlling and unhealthy our upbringing was, it can take our whole life. We finally learn about our triggers and what wounds are still unhealed. We learn to know ourselves better and to protect ourselves.

          18. sarabella says:

            The part of their tolerance git quite confused for a while by the constant message he began to give me that he was treating me as he did because it was my fault. If only I would change my reactions, he would have treated me better was his message. Classic abuse. Then the people feeding me the same message that he actually loved me and said often in a way that also blamed me for his behavior. Never quite so blatant, but still that message was there. So I then also figured he was nicer to her, not totally nice, but nicer that she didn’t kick him out for some time. My source was reliable. And they have kids so that’s one reason my source said they stay connected. She doesn’t rely on him for anything (money, help, etc) so she has freedom. But … she still has affection for him. This is what made me feel so intolerant, wrong, uptight and with too many expectations.

            And then the one or two who find him to be a good person. I will never, ever understand that perspective applied to him. Even my source said right away to me he is toxic, abusive, a manipulator, a u a user … will do anything to screw a woman, uses young girls … and said he is a good person. What planet do those people live in? If that is good, I would love to hear who qualifies for them as a bad person. Very confusing stuff

          19. E. B. says:

            Hello Sarabella,

            Part II – (cont. from my previous reply.)

            “I live with it just like I did after he did this 30 p years ago…”

            It seems that he has opened some emotional wounds. Narcissists use them against us. We may not be aware that we have them.
            Old wounds from childhood will not disappear by themselves. Ignoring a problem does not work. Time does not heal them. There will be other narcissists who will exploit our vulnerabilities again.

            Your pain will go away. Only memories will remain. First, identify negative messages you still believe to be true. They actually come from dysfunctional family members like ‘You are unlovable, unworthy, damaged, invisible… ‘ This is how narcissistic parents perceived their children. Their perceptions are their own projections. We accepted the narcissist’s projections as our reality. If you feel unlovable, not wanted or insignificant you will choose a partner who cannot love you, is emotionally unavailable and will make you feel that way. Negative messages are deep ingrained in our subconscious mind. I have recovered information I thought it was completely lost. You need to regain a sense of self-worth.

            Also identify your reactions when your wounds are triggered: fight, flight, freeze or fawn. It is highly likely that you are still reacting the same way without knowing it. Example: freeze might have helped you to survive certain events when you were a child. As an adult fight or flight would be more appropriate. It all depends on what happened to you.

            Keep remembering negative statements, you reactions, your feelings and pay attention to your body. Ask yourself why you think they are true, find proof that they are not. Ask yourself if there are problems in your life that revolve around the same patterns. There is a lot of work to do and it can take years depending on the abuse you endured in your childhood. Boundaries are very important but I think that it is not possible to establish strong boundaries without knowing ourselves first.

            As for healing methods, please be careful. There are people claiming to be Empaths and former victims of narcissistic abuse. They say they want to help other victims heal. They sell their own methods to erase negative beliefs from your subconscious. From healing oils to visualization. They say they enter your body and heal you. If you do not heal, you are to blame for not believing in their method. One of them claims that our negative vibes are responsible for attracting narcissists. A victim asked why her ex-husband had hoovered her after decades, although she had gone NC and he lived in another continent. The victim was told she had sent him her (negative) vibrations. Imagine *vibes* travelling across continents after 20, 30 years NC… If the victim heals by using the guru’s method, her vibes will change and she will not attract narcissists anymore. Narc free by changing your vibrations. Unfortunately, many people suffering from emotional pain fall for it.

      4. narc affair says:

        (((Sarabella)))…im sorry youre hurting. Itll get better once you heal and only time can heal a loss. One day at a time youll get there to that place of peace and happiness 💓

        1. sarabella says:

          The betrayal of the whole story I think is the hurt that is left. The actual pain is gone, but the betrayal still hurts. I know he does this to most every female, I am not so special there. I just didn’t think that with his awareness of our history, that he could have even gone where he went again. That’s the only thing left to purge…

  11. Carolyn says:

    I have a question. Let’s imagine that narc has or is trying to install new IPPS and at the same time he regularly hoovers previous IPPS. Ofc these are malign hoovers to draw some negative fuel. Now, the former IPPS doesnt react – ignores the hoovers or react neutrally not giving any fuel. So whar will narc do? He goes away because he needs negative fuel and she doesnt give it or he tries to switch to benign hoovers? I think that mine ex narc finally understood that he can’t make me react in negative way and I thought he would go away but I can see he just changed his methods and started to act kind and friendly towards me. But not as someone who wants me back but as someone who wants my non intimate friendship. Is it possible? And what does it say about his dynamics with new target he is trying to seduce or already seduced? Does it mean they are in the golden period now and thats why he is kinder towards me or maybe he started devaluing her and thats why he needs some positive fuel from me?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      This can happen. The other person is a Candidate IPSS and if can still remain that even if the narcissist is being benign to the Former IPPS (who is being treated as a Shelf IPSS but still retains the title of Former IPPS). The other person might be moved to Shelf IPSS and the Former IPPS becomes a Candidate IPSS and may become the IPPS again.

  12. Kelli says:

    This post saved me from being hoovered tonight after 6 weeks of no contact with my lesser. I’ve never commented but this one really got me. I had to pause multiple times reading it because it literally made me sick and hurt my heart. I needed to hear the truth though. Thank you HG.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome Kelli and well done.

  13. Bubbles🍾 says:

    Dear Mr Tudor,
    The more I read of your work, the more I can relate, unfortunately.
    The weasel was always referring to a third person…. mainly exes, probably chucked in some made up ones for good measure, fluff it up a tad to make him look like gods gift.. haha
    Very rarely said anything positive about anyone …. except his golden child and his landlord… haha
    The other day, I ran into a female friend who knew him and said he declared his love for her right out of the blue and that he loved her from afar and all that palaver … she ended the friendship immediately! Boy oh boy , he was not happy …. I got to hear about it from the weasel himself … two completely different stories (I believed her) She mentioned to me he had told her, he was writing a book and she was the heroine.
    Guess what ? He told told me the exact same story and I was the heroine.
    The dynamics of his family are very dysfunctional and very toxic … the more I hear, I’m glad I GOSO !

    Thankyou Mr Tudor for providing all the answers ….

  14. Melissa says:

    Mind -Blowing and Soooo TRUE* (Applause!) ….To you HG

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you.

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Little Acons – No. 37