Toxic Logic





Confusion is at the heart of the narcissistic dynamic. Confusion causes several things to happen. You provide fuel far more readily, you submit to our control, you are easier to manipulate, your blame yourself, you cling on tighter and you do not move forward. Confusion reigns during devaluation. Confusion abounds post escape and especially post discard. Confusion keeps appearing during the hoovers which inevitably appear. The creation of confusion is a must for us if we are to keep our grip on you and achieve our aims. How many times have you said any of the following?

Why is he doing this?

I don’t understand why one moment she is fine and the next she is a howling banshee?

Why does he get so angry over nothing?

Why won’t he leave me alone?

I cannot work out what is wrong.

What’s the matter? What have I done wrong?

Why won’t you tell me what is the matter?

What was that for?

What did you say that for?

Why did you just do that?

These are all the common responses of victims who do not understand what is happening to them. This is because each and every single one of them is looking at the situation through their own world view and is accordingly applying their own logic to the situation. They are also doing so in a skewed fashion because that logic is heavily tainted by emotion which impairs clarity of thought. Not that our kind would complain about that.

One of the central planks to understanding the narcissistic dynamic is to understand our Toxic Logic. This is so-called because the effect of the application of our logic is that it has a toxic effect on you. Once you understand this toxic logic, you will make considerable advances into understanding why we behave as we do, why we say the things we do, why we react in the fashion that we do and why it impacts on you in such a fashion. You will not like this toxic logic. You will find it abhorrent but it is not necessary for you to like it. What you must do is apply it.

When you look at a situation adopting your worldview it is akin to staring into the dark of the night and looking into a forest. You may be able to see the trees because of the moonlight; you see lots of shadows but you cannot spot the man that is lurking there training a gun on you. Apply night vision goggles to that situation and all of a sudden you can see much more as they catch the infra-red section of the light spectrum and you can see the assassin clearly. Applying the toxic logic is the equivalent of switching to night vision. You will notice things that have been there all along. You will understand why we have responded in a certain way which has previously been a complete mystery to you.

Let us take the dinner table example. You have made dinner. you serve the four guests first, place a plate for yourself on the table and then serve your narcissist last. He knocks the plate to the floors spilling the food and breaking the plate. Your guests gasp. He stares at you, glowers and you watch shocked and puzzled as he storms off from the dining room. Why on earth did he just do that? Fifteen minutes later he returns, sits down and converses with you and the guests as if nothing has happened. How can he do that after such a display?

Looking at it from your worldview, you served the four guests first because that is polite. You then served yourself because your place setting was nearest to the food so that was practical. You served the narcissist last because he was furthest away and also you gave him more than the others since you didn’t have to save any of the food for anybody else, since everybody had been served. The evening had been proceeding in a friendly and pleasing fashion with everybody enjoying themselves. There is, from your worldview, no reason at all for this sudden display of temper.

He returns with no apology or sense of embarrassment at his behaviour and continues as if he has just been to the bathroom or to answer the door. He is pleasant and charming to both you and the guests. Again from your worldview, you are left puzzled by this behaviour. Who on earth behaves like that?

Now you apply the toxic logic and the reason is all too clear. By serving the narcissist last you told him through this action, which was not accompanied by any fuel, that he was not important. This was a criticism. This wounded him. His self-defence response to this wounding was the ignition of his fury. He could not keep it under control because of the type of narcissist that he is. The fury therefore manifested as heated fury. He tipped the plate to the floor spilling the food and breaking the plate. This caused drama and had all eyes on him. The guests were taken aback and their gasps of surprise and shock provided him with emotional attention, thus fuel. Your stunned reaction also provided him with fuel. He then walked out, drawing further emotional reaction from everybody assembled and in another room he has been able to draw on Thought Fuel as he imagines the ongoing reaction to his outburst. All of this fuel goes to the repair of the narcissistic wound that he has suffered. His fury will abate and he will return at some point as if nothing has happened.

Indeed, he returns, fury abated and is able to switch back without any show of concern to be charming and pleasant, thus drawing positive fuel from all those he is engaging with. Out of politeness, nobody mentions the incident, no doubt fearing a repeat performance.

This is but one example amongst millions that normal healthy people and empathic healthy people just cannot understand. Internally, those who witnessed the incident may be anxious, puzzled, pleased that it is over, wondering what caused it, wary of it happening again and a whole host of other thoughts. None of them will actually understand why it happened. It is only the application of the toxic logic that allows you to understand it.

So, what is this toxic logic? I shall example the main principles behind it. As you read these principles I know you will be thinking such thoughts as

But that is insane

That is ridiculous

Why live like that?

Can’t he or she see how crazy that looks?

Remember, it only appears that way because you are applying your own worldview to these principles. In order to understand and apply the toxic logic you have to let go of your logic – for the time being – and just accept that these are the principles we operate by. As I mentioned before, it is irrelevant whether you like them or agree with them. You should not feel any need to challenge them. You should just accept that this is the way that it is and once you do that, you will grasp why we are as we are. These are the principles of our toxic logic.

  1. Fuel is everything to us. It governs everything we do, whether by instinct or by calculation.
  2. Nothing is ever our fault. Nothing at all.
  3. We are entitled to do what we want, when we want, where we want, how we want and with whom we choose.
  4. You are the competition.
  5. Everybody is an appliance that yields fuel.
  6. If you do what we want, you are good.
  7. If you do not do what we want, you are bad.
  8. There is no middle, no grey, no inbetween.
  9. The end always justifies the means.
  10. We have no concept of remorse, guilt or a conscience.
  11. The world is against us.
  12. Anything that blocks, defies, challenges or calls into question our superiority is a criticism., if it is done without providing fuel.
  13. We hate criticism
  14. Criticism wounds us and ignites our fury.
  15. We must control our environment. Control is paramount to us.
  16. We do not recognise boundaries
  17. We have no empathy
  18. We mimic and copy to pretend we have certain emotions and feelings.
  19. We lie repeatedly.
  20. Fuel is everything to us – worth repeating.

This logic is toxic because the outcome is that you are manipulated. We abuse people, we use people, we trample on people and do so without any concerns at all for that person’s wellbeing. You will be considering such behaviour and outlook at odious and reprehensible and coming from an empathic individual that is entirely understandable.

Let us apply the toxic logic to another scenario.

You send your narcissist a text message asking when he will be coming home. You receive no reply. You text again. No reply. You ring. There is now answer. Your narcissist eventually appears at 2am when you are lying still awake in bed. There is no apology, no explanation and he says nothing to you but gets into bed and falls asleep. You are left worried, bewildered and upset.

From your world view you cannot understand why he did not respond to a perfectly reasonable text message. You cannot understand why he did not tell you he would be late. You know of no reason why he would stay out so late and not warn you. You find it hurtful and upsetting and you are confused because he is meant to love you and if someone loves someone then they do not behave this way. I have heard such comments many times.

Now apply the toxic logic.

The narcissist is entitled to do as he pleases. Thus if he wants to stay out, he can.

The narcissist is never to blame. Therefore, he feels no compulsion to warn you he will be late, to apologise for returning late or to offer any explanation.

Your text message sought to exert control over him. You are the competition. This is prohibited conduct.

The text message was not accompanied by fuel. By suggesting that he was beholden to you, this amounted to a perception of criticism by the narcissist. He felt wounded. Some narcissists could control the fury that is ignited and might have answered. This narcissist could not. His response was cold fury through a silent treatment. Hence the failure to reply and answer the ‘phone.

He gained Thought Fuel knowing that you would be concerned and worried at his failure to reply and him staying out late. This would heal the wound and abate the ignited fury.

He was justified treating you in this fashion because he is entitled and the end always justifies the means. Further, fuel is everything.

Thus, when looked at from the narcissist’s perspective, applying the toxic logic everything makes perfect sense to him, but viewed from your perspective it will not. The toxic logic will repeatedly explain to you why we suddenly erupt, go silent, suddenly apply the golden period again, why we carry on like normal afterwards, why we never apologise or if we do it is a false apology and so forth. Everything about what we say and do, how we behave and respond appears nonsensical, confusing and puzzling when looked at from your perspective. This means you give us fuel, try harder to please us, submit to our manipulations and remain in our grip. It also means that your empathic traits of needing to understand, wanting the truth, being good and decent and trying to help are catered for. Thus, sub-consciously, you are getting something you need from it, even though it is upsetting you, angering you or frustrating you. Our behaviour, lacking any logic in your world, keeps you where we want you and also caters for your empathic needs meaning you remain in place.

Every time something happens which perplexes you, you will suffer the consequences of our toxic logic. You are hurt, upset, mystified, anxious and so on. If, however, you apply our toxic logic to what has happened you will work out why it has happened. It is not always easy to do. it takes time to work it out. It takes discipline and repeated application in a way that is alien to you. You will not like it. You will not approve, but you will understand. Once you start to understand, you gain control. Once you start to understand, the toxic effects of being confused, bewildered and lost are ameliorated. Once you understand, you can begin to establish a way to deal with the application of this toxic logic so that the effects become less and less effective. You are then taking your first steps to freedom.

19 thoughts on “Toxic Logic

  1. Kate says:

    Hi HG,

    Sometimes I get a flash of a hateful glare from a stranger (or someone that I have known for a long time) who exposes themselves to me as a Narcissist. II give them a stare back like, “I know who you are”.

    I wonder if I am imagining this – that they find me toxic to them. Is that possible?

  2. gabbanzobean says:

    I have another Q about the scenario you describe.

    “The narcissist is never to blame.”

    “Your text message sought to exert control over him. You are the competition. This is prohibited conduct.”

    “He felt wounded. Some narcissists could control the fury that is ignited and might have answered. This narcissist could not. His response was cold fury through a silent treatment. Hence the failure to reply and answer the ‘phone.”

    I am starting to notice a trend in regard to the above situation. He will either just keep ignoring me with no explanation or response to even simple Q’s like “how are you?” One time I included him on a group email and he then suddenly replied to me and flipped out because he did not want my friend having his contact information. He later apologized (a few days later after a silent treatment) for flipping out at me….but in the interim of the conversation I had said (sarcastically) “well it is nice to hear back from you even if you are mad about something silly, it would have been nice to know how you are doing though” and he fired back with “I do not owe you a response to how I am doing, I will talk to you when I want to”. And then he went silent until his BS apology a few days later.

    So I interpret this as he is entitled and owed me no courtesy of a simple reply that any other friend of mine would have given. However because he felt threatened and out of control (i.e. a concurrent incident of being included on a group email which he did not like) he then replied to me (on his terms) and got angry (“heated”). So this lack of control over being involved in a stupid group email wounded him and replied with the “heated fury” as opposed to the prior “cold fury” of ignoring me. Even though I got the hot first (via text) and then the cold.

    Makes sense I guess….Yay I worked that one out on my own. The Q that remains though is….why did he later apologize?

  3. snarkandgrace says:

    Does anyone else worry that “their” narc is going to wander in here and start replying to their comments, thus violating no contact without us even knowing it… or is that just me? Being hoovered and gaslighted for 30+ years has its drawbacks.

    1. K says:

      I did worry about that in the beginning, snarkandgrace, but not so much anymore.

      1. GOSO says:

        My ex checked out this site early post discard. He told me he did. He said HG speaks from the intellect . . . he envisions himself on a higher plane of spiritual enlightenment . . .he uses this and religiosity to ensnare his victims. So he was bored easily with the site . . . not that I believe him . . . . He is a chameleon and who says a leopard cannot change its spots?

  4. Lisa says:

    I really appreciate this piece HG. It makes so much sense now after all this time of reading your work. Thank you for posting it again.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome Lisa, it is a key article.

  5. BurntKrispyKeen says:

    I’m struggling to not comment on the gas mask, but I made that pact to no longer interject my thoughts on images that contain fingers or hoses, so I’ll try my best to honor my word.

    I think that I could better resist the temptation if I knew more about the selection process. I would like to buy a ticket to sit in on a few meetings in the Visual Aids Department at Narcsite Headquarters. If you threw in a working lunch with bangers and mash, I think that would complete the experience.

    (Are those actually better than they sound?)

    Regardless, you definitely know how to keep education entertaining HG. Thank you for another article examining the complexity of narcissism and the toxins that make me wish I had my own mask… with a more manageable hose, of course.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome.

  6. DoForLuv says:

    My New manager is one of your kind ! it didn’t took long for me to recognize her behaviour ever since I’ve read your work . Chaos at work haha .

    I’m still white for now .

  7. Jeannine says:

    Just THANK YOU. Finally I have clarity. Just took me 20 years to reach this point. Last four years of my life, after leaving him after 17 years of marriage, I researched and researched. Was told by my therapist and his, that he was a narcissist, but I still battled to come to terms with it. Thank you HG for helping me get to this point. You describe my ex-husband to a tee – I do worry for my children, and am lucky that they have limited contact with him, but he is playing super Dad now. The relief is amazing, but still breaks my heart that he became like this – I still feel tremendous pity and yes compassion for his circumstance and WHY he is like this. However I know being away from him and limited contact with my children is the best thing for all of us. I NEVER want my children to be like him. Parenting is a massive responsibility and sadly he was let down by his parents.

  8. Challenge Fuel says:

    I often say that you have a 6th sense, HG. I so needed to re-read this again today.

    “Nothing is ever our fault. Nothing at all.”

    ~Yep. I am always reminded of this.

    “We are entitled to do what we want, when we want, where we want, how we want and with whom we choose.”

    ~Yep again. “I will communicate with you if and when I choose to do so”

    “You are the competition.”

    ~I am still a bit unclear on what this means. Does the narc feel threatened by us and that makes him compete against us? Challenge us back when we challenge him? Is my interpretation accurate or am I missing something with that?

    “If you do what we want, you are good.
    If you do not do what we want, you are bad.
    There is no middle, no grey, no inbetween.”

    ~What if we do not know what you want? Are we supposed to be mind readers or does this make us bad if we cannot work you out?

    “Thus, sub-consciously, you are getting something you need from it, even though it is upsetting you, angering you or frustrating you.”

    ~Kinda makes sense.

    1. Lori says:

      Yes you are competition. Narcs want the best and the brightest codependent empaths. While they want everyone to admire who they are with they also see it as competition for attention especially if she shines bright.

      I have always felt a sense of competitiveness coming from both of my narcs

    2. narc affair says:

      Hi gabs…by competition how i take that is the narc envies us. Everyone is competition bc they want what you have and they have to be number one and have control. If youre content they envy and resent that bc they have to work so hard to feel even a sliver of that contentment and its reliant upon fuel.
      Were competition bc they envy who we are which are good people who have substance. They are void and have manufactured who they are depending on the source.
      They want to consume us bc they envy who we are and what we have.
      They have to be the focus and so we will always be competitors for that attention. They are jealous and unhappy individuals who have to conquer thereby making us competition.

      1. Challenge Fuel says:

        After hearing your explanation, I still feel like I cannot apply this to the situation with my MRN. He never struck me as having a competitive attitude. It was always “woe is me”. If seeking pity was a competition and then I guess you could say he would win in that respect.

        The only other thing that I often felt like I could never reply was the savage “heated” fury.

        Then again this may be attributed to the long distance factor.

      2. Lori says:


        With the victim mentality there is always the competition to get the most pity. They always have it much worse than anyone else.

    3. Yolo says:

      No grey area. We can not figure out normals or what we want from day to day. You will lose your mind trying to discern what a narc want or need.

      They are interchangeable based on there need for fuel. Free your mind from reasoning and trying to figure out what is going on with a narc.

      1. On My Journey says:

        I take this as … you can’t win. That is the toxicity of their logic. Whatever way to win they will find it . Does not matter how bright you are the end justifies the means and they get fuel from you to beat you up at any games ( except HG’s game lol) ….

    4. W says:

      Parenting is like a constant war. It feels combatitive , I’ve noticed. Not to the degree I hear about other narc dads, but it’s a struggle. This is with someone who I’m still unsure if is a narc, figured emotionally immature , no parenting skills demonstrated by own parents, own father ran the house,
      But yes everything , every convo, feels,like a competition.

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