The Portentous Remarks of the Narcissist




It is well known that our kind operate by the wearing of masks. We have learned how to portray those emotions which we do not feel. We have ascertained that in certain situations we are expected to respond in a particular way. We know that by donning a particular mask we are more likely to charm and seduce you. We are aware that maintaining a certain mask the vicious malevolence that lurks beneath can be kept in check so that we achieve acceptability and the advancement of our agendas. There are occasions when we will give you a glimpse of what lies beneath this mask. I am not referring to when we whip the mask off and subject you to devaluation. That is a purposeful and intended act on our part. I am not making reference to when the mask fractures as a consequence of the ignition of our fury and the lesser and mid-range of our kind are unable to keep the mask in place so that the ignited fury erupts and the malicious beast is unleashed. There are occasions however when we provide you with a fleeting glance beneath the mask as to what lies beneath. This will happen during the seduction period. Sometimes it is as a consequence of the effect of a particular agent, such as alcohol. Sometimes, especially with the greater of our kind, it is done as deliberate act in order to gauge your reaction. In such an instance, we tell you of what lies ahead to see if you baulk at the suggestion, or that more likely you respond in a sympathetic manner or even by way of denial.

“I couldn’t ever imagine you doing that.”

“That won’t happen with me though. It might have with other people but I will treat you better than they have.”

“You’re not like that, don’t be silly.”

“I don’t see you doing something like that, you are too nice.”

If you respond in such terms when you have been given such a warning, then this is a green light to us that we have you under our control and that you will accord with our desires and machinations. It also allows us, when we do eventually behave in the manner described down the line during the devaluation, to throw it back in your face by saying.

“I did warn you.”

“Why are you complaining? I was upfront that this would happen.”

“I told you so.”

“It’s no use crying about it now. I told you what I was like.”

“I told you and you chose to stay with me. It is your fault.”

Not only does this enable us to avoid blame, something we must achieve, it will also result in you reacting and providing us with fuel.

With the lesser or mid-range of our kind, these comments are more akin to thinking aloud. The mask does slip, unintentionally for a moment, through the explanation of a future behaviour before it is realised what has been said and the disclosure is brushed to one side, denied or passed off as a silly comment owing to drink or being tired. Why do these comments arise in such a manner from the lesser and mid-range of our kind? Is it guilt or remorse? No, because those emotions are not felt by our kind. It arises from a lack of control. The “bad” behaviour that will arise at some point is lurking beneath the surface and like a cat fighting to get out of a sack, it is always wanting to make an appearance but is prevented from doing so by the maintenance of the mask that is worn. Occasionally, through the loss of control – it may be drink, it may be fatigue, it may be through inattention – what lurks beneath makes a brief and fleeting appearance before the control is exerted once again. Here are fifteen portentous show and tells of our kind. Should you ever hear these comments you ought to pay heed to the warning that you are being given.

  1. I am a bad person really.
  2. I will only hurt you.
  3. You should stay away from me.
  4. I do bad things. I cannot help it. I always do.
  5. I will make you wish you had never met me.
  6. It will go wrong, it always does.
  7. You will end up hating me.
  8. You don’t know what you are getting into with me.
  9. You shouldn’t do this.
  10. You should leave while you can.
  11. This is going to turn out badly.
  12. I have to hurt people.
  13. I don’t want to hurt you, but I will.
  14. I just want to fit in.
  15. I’m not what you think I am.

60 thoughts on “The Portentous Remarks of the Narcissist

  1. Michelle says:

    As a borderline I think I’ve used just about every one of these sentences…..

  2. SMH says:

    The first day we met he said ‘I only skim the surface.’ ‘Oh?’, I said ‘I only dig really deep.’ I didn’t believe him and he didn’t believe me. Guess we challenged each other to a duel! It should come as no surprise that I am a Taurus and he is an Aquarius.

  3. Caroline says:

    Let me know if you still want to converse on this. I have no idea, so please just let me know. I’ve put a lot of thought into this (as I do most things), but if you’re not interested, I’d rather just be told directly… either way is fine, but I’ll know… which is always best.

    Thank you.

    1. Hi Caroline.
      I thought I replied to you but here it is again just in case it did not go through (I can no longer see comments once I post them. I used to see them but it would say “in moderation” so I at least knew they went through but now with the new layout of the blog it seems I do not see the comments anymore). Anyway the point to my long winded rambling is that I do not mind hearing what you have to say.

      1. Caroline says:

        Oh, I’m sorry, Gabrielle! I looked on here, and I see why the confusion (on my part, not yours). My post never went through. I’ll try to figure out what’s up…my fault.

      2. Caroline says:

        Hi, Gabrielle~me again… hope this goes through.

        I know you know what intermittent reinforcement is, but I do think it will help you more than you know to read up on it more during this time… I’m sure you remember (from school years) the rat, lever and pellet intermittent reinforcement experiment. I’d go online and look that up… dig into articles on that — especially the more scientific documents… really absorb what was being done to the rat and the effects. Immerse yourself in the psychology of it. I think another common example of the ensuing feeling of desperation/lack of clear thinking regarding intermittent reinforcement that’s used (as way of example) is what happens to many when playing the slot machines in Vegas…I remember reading something online about that in more detail, and it’s quite interesting. I’d look that up online too (just type in “intermittent reinforcement” before each example I just gave — in your search engine).

        In other words, the power of intermittent reinforcement is a real thing! It’s also immensely powerful and addictive. You’re not alone in being taken down by it…

        So, from all the posts I’ve seen of the way your narcissist treats you — the things he does/doesn’t do — gives and withholds — pushes/pulls — and the overall, ever-powerful, dizzying intermittent reinforcement tactic he uses against you… it’s sheer psychology that you’re feeling desperate to get that great feeling (“golden times/positive attention) again and again — that high, that relief… your brain says you can keep getting it, and you’ve been trained now to wait and wait and wait for it, as it is now becoming more and more haphazard.

        All that confusion you have, about what the narcissist says/does…the conflicting info and conflicting signals? The hot/cold treatment? All those contradictions?

        Be confused no more, dear Gabrielle. Do not doubt yourself. HE IS DOING ALL THIS TO YOU ON PURPOSE (whether, as HG says, by instinct or more careful plotting). ESSENTIALLY, HE’S SAT YOU DOWN AT A SLOT MACHINE. HE WANTS YOU DESPERATE TO NOT STOP PULLING THE SLOT MACHINE — HE WANTS YOU AFRAID TO WALK AWAY FROM IT (after all, you’re programmed to think you can win at any moment!)…AND, BY WAY OF ANOTHER EXAMPLE, HE HAS SAT YOU DOWN IN A CAGE WITH A LEVER. HE HAS YOU PRESSING THAT DAMN LEVER, OVER AND OVER AND OVER, FEELING INCREASINGLY DESPONDENT BECAUSE YOU HAVEN’T GOTTEN A GOOD CRUMB FOR QUITE A WHILE (but you know you will eventually, so you wait and wait and wait).

        I do believe that your “knowledge dig” in this particular area could bring a new mind freedom… just understanding all the ins and outs of what he is doing (and why you are reacting as you are) is liberating! You’ll know… really head-wise know… exactly what’s going on, and why. HG has boiled it all down in different ways, which is so helpful… but I’m thinking someone like you would do well with getting into the science of it also.

        And the next post I was going to do for you (if you think it may help) was going to be an example of how all this very thing went down for me one fateful evening, at a play I attended with my ex-narcissist.

        I promise, my examples will make you feel better — less alone — that I do get it! And I promise you’ll also laugh, because it’s so outrageous. But I hope that you’ll also see what I did about it… knowing you have it in you to be good to yourself, in a similar way that I was good to myself that confusing, hurtful night. I want to empower you.

        Let me know when you’re ready for the next part, if you even are (in the meantime, maybe spend some time looking up info on those 2 examples)… and we haven’t even gotten to jealousy, etc. yet, lol.

        1. Omj says:

          Make sure you poke me on this one – I am really looking forward reading it . I need some strong content today :))

          1. Caroline says:

            Oh, it’ll be strong… get some tissues ready, because there may be tears of laughter, heh.

          2. Omj says:

            Can’t wait !!!!

          3. Caroline says:

            You’re so cute.:-)

          4. Caroline says:

            You’re more than welcome, Gabrielle. If anything I say could help you in any small way, I’d be so happy. 🙂 I’ll be back as soon as I can, with the next installment, lol

        2. Fuel on the Shelf says:

          “Let me know when you’re ready for the next part, if you even are (in the meantime, maybe spend some time looking up info on those 2 examples)… and we haven’t even gotten to jealousy, etc. yet, lol.”

          Thank you for sharing, Caroline. Jealousy is also something I struggle with (his IPPS). I am interested to see what you have to say about this as well.

          1. Caroline says:


            Since you most want to talk about jealousy/envy directly, let me get to that right away (I’ll still do my play anecdote later, OMJ~as I think it will amuse you~and I think there’s some useful content in it, that applies to many elements between narcissists and empaths)…

            HG has “frozen” the blog right now, so I’ll just get the ball rolling with this, to see if it even posts…

            I may be a good person to talk to about jealousy. You know how some people seem to be missing a “sensitivity chip”? Well, I seem to have been born with nary a jealous/envious bone to my body. I’d be hard pressed to recall the last time I was jealous or envious of someone/something. I’ve been like this since I was little. It’s not that I’ve *never* felt jealous, but it would be only a handful of times (guilt, however, is another matter for me, so we all have our issues!). Maybe when I explain my thinking on this, it’ll shed light/help you some, Gabrielle. I’ve reflected on why it’s not a problem area for me, so I can share on that. My narcissist sensed it wasn’t also, very quickly… he’d actually manufacture stuff just to try to make me feel jealous (because his usual tricks didn’t work, gawd-so horrible! lol)… and that never worked either.

            The other reason I might be able to help is that my senior year in high school, my best friend (since 8th grade) came to me and confessed that she’d been feeling jealousy toward me for years…I’d like to say I embraced her, said, “Aww” and was nothing but understanding…but no. It greatly hurt me — like a gut punch — and it took me one long week just to be able to sit down and talk to her about it.

            But I *did* learn a lot about jealousy/envy, when we talked it out…and I think I helped her some. However, as hard as I tried, our friendship was never the same again. I did not keep in touch with her after high school…I just never trusted her to the same level again. So I saw firsthand the harm jealousy can do, to both parties. It sucketh, all-around.

            I’d love to help you see it differently, if I can.

            Ok, I’ll try to post this. Either WP (or HG?) is just not cooperating with me much with posting lately, ha.

          2. Omj says:

            I never felt jealousy either – I can’t remember . But strikes me more and more is that I provoke jealousy quite directly frankly /
            I am aging – I have to rebuild my whole assets – There is something in me that does light up that jealousy sparkle – I was a kid and it was like that – they bullied me out of jealousy – I had that je ne sais quoi – i was different and kids did not know in which category to put me … nerds, artistic, fashionista, clown … I had many facets that made me hard to fit in anywhere .

            On of my Narc made me jaelous a few times with other woman – but Inhear that his is trademark – he left his last gf because too jaelous ( of me ) apparently … really odd …

          3. Caroline says:

            OMJ (apologies if this is a double-post/my posting is glitchy),

            I think jealousy is often their “go to” because they feel it most profoundly. It was only in hindsight that I was able to figure out that my attention on anyone else/anything else was often viewed as a threat (Okaaay…but I’m gonna get bored just sitting and staring into your blue eyes all day, lovely as they are, lol).

            It’s the jealousy aspect that makes me feel sorry for narcissists. I can recall 3 intricate jealousy ploys he set up…it really was a “Prove it — prove you love me!” thing… but here’s a fact: you can never reassure them, because nothing is ever enough — for long enough. It’s mission impossible, baby.

            So I find that very sad. There’s a hole in them that can’t get filled, because of past abuse and/or neglect.

            Speaking from personal experience, there was absolutely nothing I could do about it either… gosh knows I tried.

          4. Caroline says:

            Hey, a miracle… it posted. Maybe my posting woes are over.

            Ok, first off, the IPPS…I’ve never gotten that you have feelings of hatred for her, but jealousy easily gets misplaced, so just wanted to touch on her first…

            She’s a total victim. Think of her situation… he cheats on her, and she forgives him/gives another chance… and he’s still doing it. Whether she’s oblivious to it or chooses to look the other way, it’s truly awful for her. I’m thinking it’s a rare woman who does not know if her husband is being shady… so she has to live with that daily… and I’m betting she can never trust him (which she shouldn’t). That’s a lot to really know… so she’s suffering too, agreed? She doesn’t know you… has no idea how he’s treated you, and how miserable he makes you either.

            So, she’s just a real sad figure in this. If you really knew her, you may really like her as a person… but, like you, she is being taken advantage of by a narcissist.

            So any thoughts on this front?

  4. Sherry says:

    Yo Empaths, let’s keep working on our emotional discipline, shut off the damn hope and emotional thinking and LISTEN to what these crazy fucks are really saying. The advice is sound truth: “Pay heed to the warning you are being given.” …Fucking truth seekers that we are- it’s right in front of us.

    1. Jess says:

      Ya! What she said!

  5. Lilly says:

    Early on while high, narc: I am so fucked up, just leave me now
    Me: nooo, don’t say that, what’s normal anyway

    An another occasion narc: you will regret meeting me, everybody does, I hate when people challenge me.
    Me: come on don’t say that, those people don’t you well.

    I feel like puking when I think about those conversations and my reactions.

    1. Caroline says:

      My ex-narc thinks he’s God’s gift, so he’d die before he’d say such stuff… but, generally, when people hear such negative drama from someone, I think there’s a tendency (human nature) that makes you feel like, “This person is just exaggerating” or “He’s just feeling down/being hard on himself” — so you go the other way, to balance it. I mean, that crap can’t be real, right?

      But yeah, with narcs, that crap is for real!

      1. Lilly says:

        You are correct Caroline. On the two occasions he mentioned these warnings he was high as a kite and it was very early in us engaging in a romantic kind of way. So I brushed it away on him being high, but indeed also thinking, “don’t be so hard on yourself”. I always want to make people feel better about themselves so I tried in this case to do the same, not knowing what I was dealing with. Btw this narc believed he was God’s gift as well, don’t they all suffer from God complex?

        1. Caroline says:

          Of course you have a heart that wants to make others feel better, Lilly~~an empath’s specialty! 🙂

          My ex is an UMR or Greater (only HG would be able to pin it down for me). But I mean that he rarely demonstrated the victim mentality that some narcissists do, so he’s big on projecting that he’s this great guy who does no real wrong (he’s not going to “woa-is-me” or say bad things about himself for pity purposes) – and he wants to always project he has everything under control…I heard him countless times state his superiority over other people, and that’s when I really saw the mask slip (he was never more unattractive to me than when he was like that — ugh, truly shocking stuff — I’d just stare at him with my mouth half open… then he’d catch himself and simmer down).

          He was exceptionally good at making me think he was a special guy who truly loved me, for a long time. But he was a big faker and only loved what I could give him — that’s it. After I left him, I began to see that. Once I found this site, it ALL made sense.

  6. ava101 says:

    HG, what do you make of someone who shows absolutely no signs of being a narcissist but claims to never feel attached and never had a serious relationship in his life?? What type of personality would that be?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I’d seek verification of these claims.

      1. ava101 says:

        You wouldn’t take his word for it?

        Thank you!

    2. Bibi says:

      He could just be ’emotionally unavailable’ and not that interested in relationships. Not everyone is, and that is ok. Unfortunately the culture makes it seem like you need some label for this or that there is something wrong with you if closeness isn’t your thing.

      Emily Dickinson was a recluse. It worked for her. She was odd but we got some great poetry out of it.

  7. JustEmpath says:

    “Meet me and I promise, I won’t f.uck this up” – early dating. Who “normal” has to say something like that?

    “I hope you will never see me when I hate myself. I have such moments sometimes and it’s very difficult for others around me. I don’t want you to see this”. – well it was a partial truth. I’ve seen that. But he was not hating himself but me.

  8. Kate says:

    None of these have ever been spoken to me.

  9. Ike says:

    “I have a problem with commitment” (said on 2nd date)

    “I am unworthy” (response to me treating the narc well)

    “I am going to hurt you” (response to me telling the narc I loved her after 3 months of being my GF and many nights of her laying on my chest telling me “I like you…I like you so much” over and over)

    “I would never do that to you.” (When discussing cheating)

    “I am busy pursuing my career, I don’t have time(for you)”(during devaluation)

    “I’ll be there” (agreed to 5x dates during devaluation. Repeatedly never showed up including being on the phone in wine store with NARC on phone while picking out wine FOR THAT VERY NIGHT and then she didn’t show)

    “Theres no one else”(lies)

    “I haven’t had sex with anyone else.” (Post Hoover pillowtalk after 2 month silent treatment, obvious lie)

    “Just fucking masturbate, I do it, everyone does.”(said during devaluation sex with holding)

    “We need to talk, this isnt working for me” (said during devaluation to downgrade me from BF to FWB(when she wanted it))

    “This is so much fun I’m going to come every year! Said at festival where she began dancing 30 mins after telling me “we should just be friends” and breaking my heart.

    “Space is good right now” (distancing for devaluation)

    “This isnt working for me” (broke up with me via text after standing me up 5x nights)

    Female Narc also exhibited all othercharacteristics like triangulation, love bombing, devaluation, etc etc. Hoovered me 2x, once when saw me driving and another a week after that and then disappeared for 3 weeks. I got mad, figured out what she was. Called her out as a sociopathic narc. She cried and severe fury was ignited and she accused me of being an insensitive jerk etc, all my fault, etc: “dont ever talk to me that way again”. Ah the wounded narc. I wish Karma were real.

    1. Caroline says:

      Hi, Ike. 🙂 Great examples you gave…I can’t stand that chick, just sayin’! She makes my ex-narcissist seem almost semi-normal.

      Oh, and uh…on some thread somewhere on this site, a few of us thought you were maybe being sarcastic/a troll. Sorry ’bout that! I’m a very nice girl – I swear… I really don’t want to street fight ya, like I said) 😉

      But seriously, glad you’re here…what you went through was mind-brutal, and I’m sorry. There’s a lot of good info + support on this site. 🙂

      1. Caroline says:

        P.S. HG –feel free to delete my second (similar) post to Ike — had to start over/my first one didn’t go thru at first. Tx

      2. Bibi says:

        This chick is a bitch. However, I like Ike.

    2. Caroline says:

      Oh, Ike…Great examples, but she sure put you through it. Personally, I can’t stand that chick! She makes my ex-narcissist seem semi-normal. Gleefully dancing at the festival, really?!

      There’s lots of valuable info on this site + good support. Speaking of which…

      Uh, somewhere on a thread, somewhere…a few of us thought you were *maybe* being sarcastic/trolling, with a comment you made. So let me just say that I really *don’t* want to street fight you, lol… I’m a nice girl, really. 😉

      I’m sorry for what you went through. I hope this site is helpful.

    3. Bibi says:

      I just wanted to add, Ike, that you give some great examples and I can no doubt sense the pain she must have put you through.

      I too had a narc tell me that he was ‘incapable of commitment’ but then he began pursuing me relentlessly, feeding me compliments, addressing me as, ‘Hello, Beautiful!’, telling me I was perfect and everything he could ever want in a gf, saying I was ‘his’, loved my intelligence and he knew I’d be a great challenge for him, blah blah blah bullshit!

      Nothing ever happened.

      Years later, he has a kid out of wedlock with a girl who can barely spell and has undergone arrests. I’ve seen her mugshots.

      The kid was to prove his ‘commitment’ I suppose.

      But here is the thing, despite him saying that, and the fact that it should have been a red flag, my ego was in overdrive. I was thinking I was hot shit. I am the exception, you see.

      They say that as a warning, kinda, but then they up the game and give you LOTS of attention, wherein you begin to think they see you as special. It only adds to the fire. We have egos too.

      For once I would love an empath to respond, ‘You can’t commit? Well, neither can I!’

      I wonder what the narc would do then.

  10. Fuel on the Shelf says:

    I heard #9 but it was asked to me as a question! “Are you sure you want to do this?” vs. “You should not do this”

    I often found my MRN asking me if I was sure I wanted to do anything with him. “Are you sure you want to meet me? Are you sure you want intimacy with me?” and so on.

    My default reply? “Yes. Of course I do” (Just what he wanted to hear!!!!)

    I heard #1 early on. I ignored it. Dismissed it. Told him he was being silly.

    I sort of heard #3 but he stated “You need to be rid of me”

    Another one I will add to this list was after I said (early on) “I wish I could be like you”

    His reply (in an upset response): “You do NOT want to be like me. Do not aspire to be anything like me!”

    1. Caroline says:

      Hello, Gabrielle… what you wrote hits me in a way, unlike other things I’ve seen you write…

      So I’m trying to put myself in your shoes and feel what your type of experience could do — his “warnings” and supposedly careful considerations toward you, over time.

      Do you believe he is a guy who will do what he wants at all costs… or do you feel he is a lost soul, wanting to do/be better? Do you believe he has manipulated/targeted you… or do you believe you brought this on/it’s “mostly your fault”?

      1. Fuel on the Shelf says:

        Interesting question and I am not sure how to answer. I often feel he is lost and wants to do better. I mean he sure “talks the talk” but it is all so contradictory. Especially “I have successfully compartmentalized my guilt and shame over falling off the wagon and having sex with you again”. He claims he wants to do the right thing but then we fall right back into the pattern. I definitely do not think it is mostly my fault. At least not in the way he came into my life. Now though? I continue to intermittently engage with him so yeah I guess now at this moment it can be viewed as my fault, yes. Now…did he purposely target me? That continues to be a mystery to me. I want to say yes but also want to say no.

        He often says stuff like:
        “I am sorry for coming into your life the way I did. I never should have done that but I did not see it happening the way it did.”
        “I was only seeking friendship, and while I do not regret being intimate with you, we never should have been intimate”
        “I love my wife. I will not leave her. I could be in love with you if I wanted to but I cannot afford to do that”

        and so on.

        Sorry I have no idea how to answer your question. So I guess I will just say maybe it is a little bit of everything since I will never really know.

        1. Caroline says:

          No, you really did answer just fine, Gabrielle (sorry, I can’t stand to call you “Fuel on the Shelf”)…

          So, if you would, stop for a minute now and think of him. Just him. If he was suddenly available — his wife lost interest/found another guy/wanted a divorce… and no other women were seeking him out at all (nobody else wanted him), would he still seem really desirable to you? Would you feel just as into him? If you could see him anytime…regular dates — normal, routine stuff. I mean, really think about it, and just be honest, either way. If the answer is most certainly yes, I’ve got nowhere to go (and that’s fine). Take your time thinking it over~~I’ll be back online late tomorrow.

          But if you really aren’t sure, or if it somehow starts to lose a little something, in terms of an intense feeling about him… I’ve got just a few other things that you might possibly want to consider…a different “thought avenue” to go down.

      2. Fuel on the Shelf says:

        “If he was suddenly available — his wife lost interest/found another guy/wanted a divorce… and no other women were seeking him out at all (nobody else wanted him), would he still seem really desirable to you? Would you feel just as into him? If you could see him anytime…regular dates — normal, routine stuff.”

        Caroline…re: the above inquiry…

        As of how I am feeling at this moment in time? Yes, he would and yes I would. I often wonder if this is because he is long distance and I currently do not see or interact with him as others in his life do on a day-to-day basis. (and that can probably be applied to ANY relationship, narc or non-narc). I have been told that if this was the case I would see his “the full extent of his colors”. I often feel I wish this could be the case so I can see firsthand how he really is. How he treats her (the IPPS). I hope this explanation makes sense. I have feelings of jealousy re: the IPPS. I wish I had the crown. I am sure I am going to get backlash or lecture for replying to your question. But you asked me so I am giving my reply. Which is yes. Yes I would.

        1. Caroline says:

          Hi, Gabrielle…I wrote you back, but I’m having a terrible time posting right now, so I’ll give it time to see if my other comment (or this one) shows up. 🙂

      3. Fuel on the Shelf says:

        I only see one comment so I will wait for the other as I am curious what you have to say.

        1. Caroline says:

          Hi, Gabrielle! I’ll check back later to see if it posted, because maybe it’s just held up in moderation~I hate making double-posts on here and taking up so much space… especially when I’m having convos…I try not to stick out, lol (I know, public thread).

          But no worries about my lecturing you… it’s really not my way. I hate lectures myself! If you mean others, you shouldn’t have to be penalized for being vulnerable about your feelings with me, so I’d feel responsible for that. 🙁 I understand you get your situation intellectually, and you have to be the one to make your own decisions.

          My thoughts for you are a branch-off of the narcissistic relationship, about jealousy/envy/specialness.

          1. Fuel on the Shelf says:

            “My thoughts for you are a branch-off of the narcissistic relationship, about jealousy/envy/specialness.”

            As this is something that I struggle with constantly, I am interested to hear what you have to say.

          2. Caroline says:

            Oh, good, Gabrielle! I also wanted to tie in something about intermittent reinforcement (something I felt led to share with my experience)… wow, everything but the kitchen sink, Caroline, lol… no, it’s just a few things that I’ve thought of at times, reading your comments. My goal is to empower you, for YOU.

            We can even start out here and go hide out later on some old thread, so I don’t go too long, taking up space on an active thread. 🙂

            If my other comment doesn’t show up by later today, I shall return and start over. 🙂

          3. Caroline says:


            Ok, first on intermittent reinforcement — a favorite tool of narcissists, because it’s such a freaking powerful manipulation!

            I know you have a strong will to you, Gabrielle…and although that can make you hold on longer in a narcissistic relationship (i.e., “I want him,” “I’ll fix this/make it work,” “I’d rather have him some than not at all,” etc.), I firmly believe that same strong will can greatly empower you (and eventually set you free totally, *if* you so choose).

            So I bring this aspect of intermittent reinforcement up specifically to you because: 1) I’ve noticed a lot of your posts where you doubt yourself… you wonder why a lot — and go over what has happened in your interactions with the narc, and then there’s this increasing feeling of insecurity, being drained, and down AND 2) I think if you drill much more into what intermittent reinforcement is/what it actually does and tap into a few key elements… well, you may find your mind open to looking at this whole darn narcissistic entanglement differently… which is empowering! I can tell that facts (logic) and consistency/fairness are valued by you. If you intellectually can see something really clearly, it’s so clarifying. That awful fog can lift — goodbye confusion, which is SO debilitating when it goes on too long.

            Ok, I’m posting this now, to break it up. Then (in the next post/I’m pacing myself, lol), I’ll address #2 (above) first… then #1, when I’ll share personally what happened with me in regard to intermittent reinforcement — hoping the example may help bring it home.

            Sound good?

    2. Twilight says:


      Your being honest with how you feel towards him, yet are you being truthful to yourself?

  11. Patricia J says:

    Go now…and never come back.
    I don’t want to hurt you.
    There is no such thing as Love.
    All people are Lyers.
    All women are like Eve, Evil. They”re all the same.
    only their names have changed.

  12. Omj says:

    I am a bad man , you are a good person – heard and read that many times.

    Are you really sure , really sure you want to be with me ? I am hardcore

    Oh yes I am sure !! Super me will change you, I have a mission !! You will turn good !! I am contagious ..

    Two delusional fools together playing and old play too many times played to too many fools

    1. Caroline says:

      I beg to differ, OMJ. You’re not a fool (but he’s kinda delusional, by definition).

      I see a good woman trying to fix/heal a damaged man~~Tale as old as time~~(shall I cue the music? ;-))

      (Hello, HG… Caroline/empath/blah green dress… do you really read all the comments? Always?)

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Yes I do.

        1. Caroline says:

          Oh, hmm…that’s very commendable.

      2. Omj says:

        I accept that it was delusional of me to believe I was going to influence and eventually transform those man.

        This was become I had never gone into transformation myself. Now that I have been in my transformation on all fronts of my life and my being in the last 2 years – did coincide with meeting Narc – not related to my transformation but he played a role in it, Now that I know that transforming is painful – really – requires so much juice – I know it is delusional to change a narc .

        A narc that would become empathic suddenly would find very difficult to live with themselves and all those emotions that they would need to learn to deal with . They would suffer from looking at their pasts as well etc From most of them- not sure they could live that .

        Transforming is an excruciating experience as when you get out of the bud and before you are a butterfly – all your systems needs to be rebuilt and it aches everywhere and in unexpected fashion.

        So yes I was delusional and yes I became crazy – now I know why.

        1. Caroline says:

          But you’re not a fool, by any means. A fool would not be open to understanding your unhealthy patterns and wanting to change them and grow.

          1. Omj says:

            If you insist dear … but believe me I am not totally out of the foolish forest :))

          2. Caroline says:

            Ah, the journey through the foolish forest — who among us hasn’t ventured there at least a few times? My last walk through was in attempting to be as nice as I could be (sucker!!)… that was *before* he messed with Skippy. I’ve made big changes.

            *Note: “Skippy” not his real name. He’s wearing navigator shades and now in the Doggie Witness Protection Program.

          3. Omj says:

            You are funny !! Keep Skippy close and the Narc far :))

  13. Julie says:

    #15 makes my skin crawl. Heard that one. Wish I would have known these things years ago.

    1. Empress1 says:

      Wish my upper ‘elite’ narc said any of these things to me! Not one– just that slim smile on his face, his eyes vacant, the occasional slight smile on his thin older lips. No he never gave himself up– but I should have known, he started an affair with me only three months after he got married! Then lied to me about his wedding ring, said “I only wear it to keep the tramps away.” When I found out I went super nova– and justifiably he labelled me a ‘crazy’…..!

  14. Laura says:

    “If I’m a narcissist, I won’t be the one to tell you.”

    1. Caroline says:

      Ok, that one makes me laugh — and creeps me out.

      Who does he get to tell you? Some poor woman he trapped in his closet?



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