You do not give up easily do you? We are pleased that this is the case. You try to resurrect what we once had. You will look to resuscitate our relationship. You want to breathe new life into you and me. You want to salvage what you can from the wreckage and build something anew. You will not let the life slip from what we have, you will not step out of the tangled and twisted remains and walk away. No, you try. You try to make it work, you try to see what can be done, you try to sort things out. You try to make everything right again, you try to make us happy, you try to please us, how you try to please us. You try to fix us, you try to banish these demons which plague us, you try to shed light and joy. You try when everything seems lost, you try when all seems pointless and you try despite everything else suggesting that what we are is a lost cause. You try because you believe in hope.

But what is this hope that has you trying on a superhuman scale, which has you wiping away the tears, picking yourself up, dusting yourself down and standing up once more to try to do the right thing? If you were not with our kind but someone normal and the relationship was foundering would you try as you do with us? Of course you would try and steer the good ship towards calmer waters but you would not try to the same extent as you do with us. Where two people find they no longer have anything in common, they may be content to leave matters as they are and drift along in neutrality. It is not heady and wonderful but neither is it awful. Is beige such a terrible place to be? There is security, the children have grown up and you have your separate interests. There is no hatred, far from it, but neither is there passion any longer, but something in the middle. This is deemed as acceptable and you are happy to trundle along in this manner. You do not try to rekindle those early days of your honeymoon period. In other instances, this mediocrity is found to be stifling. If you hear another gardening anecdote or incident at the bowling club, you will go spare. You want to travel and experience new things. Your other half is more interested in the home brew and the latest episode on television. There is no hatred, there is no passion but this time the middle is deemed suffocating and unacceptable. You do not try to rekindle what you once had but instead decide you want something else. You move on to something else, be it a single life with new pursuits or finding a new person who shares your interests. The separation is amicable, fair-minded and there is no turbulence. The relationship ran its course and you saw no reason to try to make it anything different.

Yet with us it is so different isn’t it? You try your absolute best to get things back on track, you try until you are shattered and exhausted, bewildered and confused. How can you not achieve what we once had again? Why is it so elusive? Yet you do not give up. You keep on trying. Again and again.

Such is the intoxicating power of the golden period, such is the addiction of this utterly falsified state of affairs, such is the massive attraction of that seemingly perfect love, you try your damnedest to resurrect it. Sometimes there is a glimmer of a return or even a brief sortie to that promised land once again and you know that your repeated trying has succeeded. It never lasts. It never stays. Still, you exhibit that indefatigable spirit as you try once more, looking to rekindle that special love we once had.

You even begin to sacrifice pieces of yourself in order to try to bring it back. You try to guess what we want all the time. You walk on those eggshells in order to avoid disrupting the fragile peace. You agree to do things you would never have countenanced once upon a time but hey, it is worth trying isn’t it? You decide to spend more time with us, sacrificing your relationships with your friends and with your family, but you have to try don’t you? You cannot be said to have not tried to make this work and if you had it once then surely you can get it again can’t you? You submit to more and more of our demands, demeaning yourself, degrading yourself and suffering our repeated denigrations but you convince yourself that this is all worth doing because you are trying to achieve a greater aim. You have hope that you will succeed and bring back that elusive golden period. You forgo invitations to events because you know it will displease us. You do not invite people to the house to avoid causing a disruption to the evening, since we want peace and quiet. You try not to say anything when we return late from who knows where. You try to remain silent when we spend hours staring into the screen on our laptops, tapping away, our minds somewhere else. You retreat, back-off and compromise, giving away more and more of yourself and your life as you try to succeed.

Thus here is the awful warped nature of being ensnared by us. In a normal relationship you may not try to the same extent because the excitement and passion was not as it was with us. Yet, this relationship is one where trying will bring about success. Yes, you won’t establish that paradise that exists when we seduce you, but it never actually existed to begin with. It is a fiction. However, trying to succeed with someone normal and healthy is entirely achievable. You will not, by contrast, ever succeed with us. You can try over and over and over again but for all this effort and endeavour you will not get what you want. What we once granted you will only ever be given again in small doses and then only as part of this continuing manipulation so that you remain in our grip so we can gather fuel until we throw you aside. No matter how determined you are, no matter how great your resolve, no matter the fact that you put every breath, every ounce of effort in to trying to make things work between you and us so everything is golden, it will never ever work. It cannot because you cannot control the golden period. Only we can and we choose who is granted it and when in accordance with our need for control and fuel.

Try to understand that.

42 thoughts on “Tenacity

  1. Jenna says:

    Hg my comment disappeared. When it’s in moderation, do we no longer see it with the ‘in moderation’ label on our end?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      For some reason that is now the case, I do not know why, but moderation is still in place.

      1. Jenna says:

        So my comment IS in moderation? In case it was lost, I will retype it with some more detail. He unblocked me after almost 6 months. He did not message me though. It’s been about a month since unblocking me. Is it a hoover? No I will not contact him. Thank you in advance.

        Hello HG!😊 Yes it gives me satisfaction to be unblocked and you are always 100% correct about narcs coming back in some way omg!

      2. Jenna says:

        So, is it a hoover hg?

      3. Jenna says:

        Hello windstorm and everyone,

        Since hg has not replied to my question (maybe he is too busy moderating so I completely understand), I am open to comments from others. I would like to know if I have been hoovered or not. Please read above for details. Thank you.

        1. Windstorm says:

          I don’t know if that qualifies as a hoover or not, but it may well be an attempt to manipulate you (which appears successful, since you’re thinking about it so much). If it is a hoover, it seems a pretty pathetic one.

          It may be a ploy to get you to contact him, sort of like jug fishing. He’s put a jug out in the water with some bait attached, gone on about his business and will check every so often to see if he’s caught anything. If I were you, I’d laugh at such a wimpy attempt to catch me again and swim on off enjoying my freedom.

          Also remember, no one fishes with only one jug. He’s probably got a string of them targeting multiple fuel sources, not just you. Just laugh at it and don’t even check anymore whether you’re blocked or not. That’s my advice. ❤️

          1. Jenna says:

            Hi windstorm,

            “If it is a hoover, it seems a pretty pathetic one.”
            Lol! 😂
            I had to look up jug fishing and now I get it. You’re right – it’s pathetic and I AM laughing at it after reading your comment! I always appreciate your advice. Thank you windstorm. 💗

        2. Clarece says:

          Hi Jenna,
          I believe he is baiting you and testing the waters. I view those as weak, lame, cowardly hoovers.
          Something has changed for him and he’s trying to poke you to get you interested to find out what.
          After my FL vacation in early June, my Verizon phone block expired (you get 90 days and then have to log in to reblock) from March 5th. I was swamped with work and stuff going on with my daughter and let it slide because i was doing great with no contact for 3 months.
          End of June on a Friday, i get a random “mistext” from JN (recognized the digits because he’s deleted from my ph) about bringing a cooler to his cookout over the weekend. Like how did I just pop up in his message thread to send that?
          I ignored. (Impressive for me).
          The next Fri (1 whole week later) I woke up to a missed call from his number at 11:00 pm. No voice or text msg. I had my best friend at work pull up his FB page because I sensed he was triggering me to “see something”. Sure enough him and Tater Tot put up matching new profile pics arm locked, looking in love and changing their statuses to “in a relationship”.
          When they circle like that so subtly, I interpret it as a malign hoover coming your way.

      4. Twilight says:


        I do not want to sound harsh yet why are you looking to see a f you are blocked or unblocked? I remember where you were, if I am understanding correctly you checked to see and In doing so you crack the door open, you need to not just shut that door but nail, industrial glue, cement etc shut so it can never be opened again. Once you start questioning “Am I being hoovered because I am unblocked” your ET is creeping in.
        You have a choice turn now or keep dipping your toes into that pond muck, the thing about pond muck is it sticks to you and before you know it your waist deep in it wondering how it happened at the edge of the pond.

        1. Windstorm says:

          Good advice! Especially about what do to that cracked door!

          1. Clarece says:

            Twilight, Windstorn, and K all gave great, supportive answers.
            I get it though. You just need that positive reinforcement sometimes. You start moving on, get some space, maybe even spend less time here, because you’re actually getting active in the world again. Outsiders just do not grasp the narcissistic abuse concept and the damage it inflicts on your psyche. Once in awhile I will still get an irrational thought like maybe JN wasn’t a narc and I really was just at this low, grieving point after my divorce when i met him?
            I think WS is right that when they hoover like that, it’s happening with others.

        2. Jenna says:

          Hi twilight,

          You do not sound harsh at all, and I value your opinion. Though I did not check to see if I was unblocked, I noticed his profile picture as I was going down my list, thinking ‘who the heck is that?’ And then I thought ‘could it be?’ So I scrolled back up and there he was. At first, I was shocked because I was not expecting it at all. But after that, I did start checking every few days to see if the profile pic had disappeared or not. ET creeping in is right, though I am happy to say I do not love him anymore. I never blocked him because I always wanted to know if my fuel was good enough to be hoovered lol! A little part of me also wants to know what he could possibly have to say were he to communicate with me. But you are right. This opens the door to ET and I need to nail it or industrial glue it shut! I love that analogy btw. Thank you twilight. 💕

      5. shesaw says:

        Hi Jenna,

        The thing is, no matter how you name it : He wants you to be busy with him. Aaaaand…. he succeeded 😑. That’s his little victory.
        (shhhhh! don’t tell him! 😜)

        1. Clarece says:

          Hi Shesaw,
          I got so stumped when I read your response to Jenna.
          Who was busy thinking about who first? He’s the one circling back and keeping tabs if Jenna responds. We’re still thinking about them frequently anyways. You can ask anyone here and they can probably give days, hours and minutes they’ve had no contact. Lol
          I don’t see him as victorious at all. I view Jenna as victorious. She thinks thru these feeble attempts at contact and does her best to keep avoiding him. He’s still craving a fuel fix from her. That’s how I view it. But just a perspective.

        2. jenna says:


          We are interacting for the first time. It’s a pleasure to read you. Thank you for taking the time to comment though you don’t know me yet.

          You are right, and so is windstorm, twilight, and K. It gives me more perspective. And don’t worry, I won’t tell him 😄 because I do not plan to communicate with him.

          Your comment made me laugh too. Thank you for that! I will look out for more posts from you in the future. Continued healing to you🌷

      6. shesaw says:

        Ohhhh, Jenna and Clarece, its only now that I see your posts here. I didn’t understand how WP worked at that time and just clicked ‘notify me of new comments’ – and was never notified. I was searching through the blog and only found your posts now. Too bad.

        I understand your reaction Clarece. Jenna has been here for a long time and is a respected contributor (I know now) – but I just reacted to her post without knowing anything about her posting history. I remember I thought – ‘well off course that is a hoover, and crap, now he is successful bcs she is busy with him and that is what hoovers are for.’ Having read more of Jenna now, I believe I would have chosen other wordings and probably I wouldn’t have commented at all.

        Jenna, thank you for your very kind reaction. I am glad it made you laugh – it wasn’t meant that seriously indeed, but I can imagine that you/others may consider my reaction somewhat disrespectful. I definitely didn’t mean it that way and I am happy you didn’t take it as such. I didn’t know you indeed! Meanwhile I did read older posts of you and I must admit I really admire the strength and thoughtfulness of your ‘narc-handling’.
        Thank you for taking the time to respond to me too, Jenna. Your kindness is something to be proud of! 🌻

    2. NarcAngel says:

      I consider that a hoover. He left the door open and you peeked in (by checking to see that you were unblocked). Read the articles on No Contact and especially The Wrong No Contact and consult with HG if you need to, because apparently he is still in your head if you checked. You sound so much healthier in your recent posts Jenna. You know what he is. Please dont go down that road again.

    3. K says:

      My money is on a Passive Hoover.

      Kim Michaud
      AUGUST 15, 2017 AT 02:11
      I’m curious if u would consider this a hoover everytime my narc discards me he checks another site called hangouts to see if I’ve messaged him on there I know because we’ve messaged back and forth on there and it keeps a log and tells me when the last time he looked at our messages

      HG Tudor
      AUGUST 17, 2017 AT 10:14
      Yes it is a passive hoover.


      1. jenna says:

        Hi K,

        You never cease to amaze me by finding the appropriate articles and comments! Thank you my dear. So it is a passive hoover then. Or a ‘pathetic hoover’ as per windstorm!😂
        I will reread the article you linked me to. Thanks again!💕

    4. Quasi says:

      Hi Jenna,

      If he has unblocked you and your aware, would this not be the perfect opportunity to block him straight away? Are we talking social media here? so you are in control of that particular situation, not dependent on his will and control re – blocking and unblocking you as he sees fit.

      The man I knew unfriended me but did not block me as he wanted me to contact him, to beg him, to rage at him for doing such a thing? I did not respond at all, I gave him nothing.

      I did not block him straight away, as my thought ( not knowing any better or the narcissist perspective learnt here) was that this would suggest to him that he did have an impact on me, for me to do this; and I did not want to give him the satisfaction.

      Since finding narcsite and having more informed advise about no contact, I blocked him on the social media that he uses, blocked on my phone and deleted his number, and blocked on email.

      I personally don’t understand the whole block and then unblock concept – I think when you decide to block it’s pretty final, and should be left as is. But that’s just my view. I have no intentions to unblock him as I do not want his presence in my life. But this is just my thoughts and my situation

      I agree with K on passive Hoover, as to suggestive nature in unblocking, signalling a hi , I will allow you to contact me – to check if you will! ( highlighting influence and control) without him needing to exert any energy really, or risking wounding by making actual contact himself, and you rejecting/ ignoring it. It’s probably also simply to spark your curiosity, to get you asking the questions you have asked, why has he unblocked me but not made contact? To put himself back in your mind by mear suggestion that he might contact you.
      This is not quite the same as the passive hoover ( social media based/ electronic based) but the seduction shuffle hoover video is quite good in highlighting the mindset of the narcissist, In wanting to make himself known / back in town! but not actively contacting you. An interesting listen..

      I hope all is ok, and you get some potential help/ support from the opinions shared here.

  2. Chihuahuamum says:

    Sometimes i think tenacity can be a curse.

    1. windstorm says:


      I think tenacity can definitely be a curse. All my life I’ve watched people hurl themselves over and over at something that would take a miracle to accomplish. Often they were clueless of the odds against their success. Many times these people just end up bitter, confused and disappointed.

      But tenacity can be a virtue, too. Many wonderful things have been accomplished by tenacity. I think the key is knowledge. You have to be able to see and understand both the pros and cons of keeping trying. Like the old Kenny Roger’s song, The Gambler, “You have to know when to hold ‘em, know when to fold ‘em. Know when to walk away, know when to run.”

      1. MB says:

        Know when to run is right Windstorm! Perfect quote re tenacity.

        1. windstorm says:

          Thanks, MB! I always liked that song. My FIL was a professional gambler and it reminds me of him and the people I’d meet at his poker house.

      2. K says:

        That is a good song, WS. I like KR.

      3. Chihuahuamum says:

        Hi windstorm…love that lyric from kenny rodgers and so very true!! I think too tenacity can arise from avoidance of change. You keep trying to go down a pathway bc youre afraid to try a new one.
        Im very stubborn which ill admit to. I remember my grandmother telling me i was a very stubborn girl and she was right. Many times ive swam against the current in life and end up realising i was spinning my wheels going nowhere when it wouldve been better to reassess and realise a different approach or decision was what wouldve been better. I guess we learn by our mistakes.

  3. MB says:

    Fine example of tenacity there Lynn!

  4. LYNN says:

    Thanks HG
    Wonderful your trying to help and stop people wasting their time.
    Now you. save yourself and try. shut off the fuel and see if the beige can become a rainbow.
    With a normal person you should always try to give your best every day. Sometimes you fail and there’s the thing, narcs dont do failure but they need to learn that because we are non of us perfect, we always fail, but if that person loves you warts and all, then will forgive you as you forgive them. You talk together share how we make each other happy and how we have not and how as a partnership we can make our lives together better. A loving relationship is not easy it takes work and give and take but peace prevails.
    See failure as a laughing pad to accept improve mature grow and be yourself. yes be yourself make mistakes but the next day be a god and a goddess to each other again.
    Yes HG there aren’t only cycles of abuse, there are cycles love. real relaxed love not tormented.
    Waiting to hear when you try non fuel. my hand and heart will always be there for you. Take care black saviour xx

    1. tigerchelle78 says:

      Lynn, no disrespect as I know I’ve felt very similar. I’ve also said similar things myself. And I know HG recognises the sentiments.
      But from HG’s perspective, he doesn’t need saving or fixing in any way. He is perfect the way he is. He does a great job of being who he is professionally aswell as to those in his personal life.
      We are all irrelevant to him here. We do not even give him potent fuel. Any potent fuel, he gets this in his private life. HG gives out the information through this blog and is happy to help with consultations where appropriate.
      Concentrate on his work and what it does for you, rather than on him as a person.
      Telling HG there are cycles of love I imagine is like talking about cooking recipes. He is not interested nor can he love or would even know how to.

      We of course do all wish the best for him, and if any changes do happen then that’s great. But even if they did, I don’t think he would let us know about them. He owes us nothing. We don’t need to know. It’s not our business. As I’ve been told a few times here by HG – I am irrelevant. I’m a stranger, and I would not even consider myself a tertiary source. I feel like I’m below even a tertiary source. The more we concentrate on him, the more we can lose perspective of what the blog is trying to achieve here.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Pretty accurate save for the fact you cannot be lower than a tertiary source.

      2. LYNN says:

        well I just think he should try fuel starvation. If he’s that great an example of his kind I think he should try. Be interesting to hear his story of how it goes.

        1. tigerchelle78 says:

          Correct me if I’m wrong HG, but that’s not the legacy he wants to create Lynn. He has his mission in life. A focus. A goal in mind. To do what you are asking would take him down very different roads. It may well make the work he is doing now, very difficult if not conflicting and almost impossible. He has to be who he is, to be able to help people figure out the narcissist dynamic.

          1. Clarece says:

            Last summer, in a conversation in one of the comment threads, HG was the one to bring up that he and the doctors discussed an isolation experiment for him to try to see how long he could go and what would happen in a solitary confinement situation. Then he would write and share his experience here.
            I believe it lost traction due to him being able to carve the time out of his schedule with work obligations.
            What was a bit funny, was some readers missed the part that it was only in the discussion phase and that it was an official announcement it was happening and he got a lot of goodbye messages and then some writing in about how dangerous that could be for his mental state.
            Point is, HG has thought about doing this.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Correct, Clarece.

          3. Clarece says:

            What is your position on doing an isolation experiment now? Still considering it or moved away in a different direction?

          4. HG Tudor says:

            It remains extant.

      3. LYNN says:

        He hasn’t tried non fuel so he doesn’t know what will happen when he comes out the other side. I have an interest in finding out. Who knows what happens, it’s one thing about the narc he can’t tell us because he doesn’t know.
        I know all you said about him and I don’t for one minute think I’m relevant to him or want to be.
        When he gets sick of me asking he will tell me. until he does or until I get bored of asking I will keep doing so from time to time.
        In my mind I think he should try non fuel and with respect I know it’s not your thoughts but that’s fine would be boring if we were all the same.
        So I will wait for HG to ask me to stop asking him to non fuel.
        I’m sure he will soon ha ha

      4. LYNN says:

        You cannot know and he cannot know so it’s all subjective and why it needs to be done. He only needs his knowledge to do the job he’s doing he doesn’t need to be one. He has a memory

      5. Twilight says:


        I remember that conversation.

  5. Hole-in-the-hull says:

    Hello HG, i was wondering if i may ask a question? Having just completed a full wash,rinse and spin cycle with a female mid ranger and discovering she returned to an ex that stopped communicating with her out of the blue sometime last year, I was wondering if she returned to him to destroy him? She had told me about him and that she felt that she was was used by him. Even showed me a text exchange where that was stated. Given that control of an individual is paramount to a narcissist, i have this nagging feeling i could be spot on.
    Many thanks for sharing your insight.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Unlikely, she will have been providing a fresh golden period.

      1. Hole-in-the-hull says:

        Thank you for your reply. I understand she will start a new cycle again, but was just wondering if she returned to take him through the whole gamit, as she failed before. I learned today that she has been outted by her two flying monkeys and they are family friends of her ex. Quite the scene unfolding where she is i would have thought.

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