Dealing With the Evidence


Proof. The empathic individual has certain traits which mean gathering proof and exhibiting that proof to the narcissist and other parties is highly important. An empathic person is honest, decent, believes in the truth and has to have the truth known. This is not done from any sense of gloating or about showing how clever and virtuous the empathic person is. The empath operates this way because: –

  1. They want the truth to be known by third parties;
  2. They want to demonstrate that they are correct;
  3. They want to preserve their self-worth by showing the truth of the situation;
  4. They want to show other people that the narcissist is in the wrong;
  5. They want to demonstrate to the narcissist that what the narcissist has done or said is wrong. This is often done to try to help the narcissist, to heal and to fix, rather than engage in point scoring;
  6. It is done to preserve their sanity in the face of the false reality and all its manipulations which are deployed by our kind.

It often takes an empathic person a considerable amount of time to realise that merely explaining what has happened to our kind gets them absolutely nowhere. You may know precisely what has happened but if your recollection of events, no matter how accurate, does not accord with what we require, challenges us, stops us achieving our aims or worst of all constitutes a criticism, we will do anything and everything we can to distort your truth.

I use the phrase ‘your truth’ because it is always important to keep in mind that with each and every situation there is the Empathic Perspective and there is the Narcissistic Perspective. For example, you serve food for everybody and you start with the person nearest to you and this results in our kind being served last. From the Empathic Perspective, you regard this action as the most practical and the politest. From the Narcissistic Perspective, we view this as a criticism; we should have been served first. This criticism results in us being wounded, this causes the ignition of our fury and we may storm out of the dining room through our cold fury or we may fling the plate at the wall as a manifestation of heated fury, either actions occurring in order to draw fuel to heal the wound that has been created by your criticism of us.

Thus, you have the same event but two different perspectives. If you tried to explain to us that you had served people ahead of us because of practicality all you would be doing is repeating the criticism to us and igniting the fury once again. We will only have regard to our perspective and in the ensuing conversation we would engage in deflection, projection, blame-shifting, word salad and other manipulations to reject what you are asserting. From your perspective it appears innocuous, an over-reaction on our part, but from our perspective our response is completely justified.

What of a situation whereby you suspect we have been cheating with somebody else? Let us assume you have followed us and saw us pick up another woman who we embrace in our car and then head off to some secluded spot, a hotel or another location for the purposes of the tryst. You do not confront us but observe and then wait for our return that evening. You decide to remain calm and when we walk in through the door you state,

“You are cheating on me with a blonde-haired woman. I saw you pick her up this afternoon, kiss her and then I followed you to The Happy Ending Motel and saw you go in a room together.”

If you said this angrily, we would draw fuel from your reaction. We would recognize that this is an opportunity to gain more fuel from you and therefore we would look for ways to provoke you further. You are also challenging us. Whilst it does not manifest as a criticism, we still do not appreciate you trying to challenge our superiority and our entitlement to do as we please.

If you made this comment in a calm and neutral manner, you do not provide us with any fuel. You are also criticising us.

You have seen what has happened. It is not hearsay but you have witnessed our behaviour and you have told us so, providing sufficient detail to confirm its legitimacy. What might you hear in response? There are many different replies.

Denial “No I haven’t. I have been at work all afternoon.” Yes, we will be this brazen. Lies come easily to us.

Deflection. “Yes I was dropping a colleague off. She is staying there for a few days and we needed to talk about a project. You know the new plans for the development in the Old Quarter, well we are involved in that now and we need to put a proposal together in a very short time.” On we go talking about something else.

Projection. “I wasn’t doing anything wrong, not like you and that fellow, what is he called, Mike, I saw you getting close to him last week when you went for coffee.” This may or may not be true, it does not matter. It serves to draw a reaction from you and allows us to move the conversation away from what we have done.

Blame-Shift. “Who do you think you are following me? Who gives you the right to do that? There is something wrong with you. I am sick of you trying to control me.”

Blame-Shift. “So what if I am seeing somebody else, if you put out more than once in a blue moon, I wouldn’t have to go elsewhere would I? I am sick of working hard and coming in to this kind of crap.”

Disappearance – we just turn around and walk back out and disappear to some bolt hole for a few days.

Denial and Projection “I think you are mistaken, are you imagining things again? You keep doing this.”

Deflection and Gas Lighting “Oh that, nothing to worry about there, she is new to the company and I was showing her to where she is staying until her new apartment is ready. I know her from the Southern Office, so I greeted her with a kiss, that was all. Anyway, I told you I was doing this last week, don’t you remember? Yes, I told you all about it over dinner, you must have forgotten again. You seem to be doing that a lot recently.”

Verbal assault “Who do you fucking think you are? You are a miserable old cow. Creeping around watching what I am doing. Jesus, you are so fucking sad, I am sick of you. Look at the state of you.” Cue a tirade of insults which may escalate into breaking things and even attacking you.

No matter how you try to point out to us that you have seen us, you know what you saw, you know what the other woman looks like we will not hear what you are saying.

If you keep going and do so in an emotional manner, all we focus on is the fuel that we are giving you and continuing to provoke you to get more fuel.

If you do it without providing fuel, all we hear is the criticism. This wounds us and forces us to seek fuel from you (or if you continue not to provide it we will be forced to withdraw and seek fuel elsewhere).

We will not accept what you are saying, no matter how convincing you are and no matter how much detail you provide. You will be accused of making it up, reading something into nothing, taking it the wrong way, being confused, being mistaken along with all and more of the other manipulations mentioned above.

What about providing some independent evidence to us? What if you have evidence from our phone, in a document, an e-mail, a sound recording or a video? You decide to show us a video of what we did that afternoon in the hope and expectation that we must surely accept what we have done. It is there, recorded and on the screen. How will we respond?

Once again, depending on the way you have conveyed this to us, you will have either provided fuel (telling us there is more) and you have challenged us or you have criticised us. Our perspective means we need fuel, we want fuel, we need to assert our superiority, we need to maintain control, we need to keep you submissive and manipulated. Astonishing as it may seem, you can expect reactions akin to those above and these as well: –

  1. We will tell you the footage has been edited to make us look bad;
  2. We will say that the footage does not show the whole picture and is taken out of context;
  3. We will say it is somebody who looks like us but isn’t us;
  4. We will try to delete the footage;
  5. We will damage the device on which the footage is held;
  6. We will produce some different evidence which points to some imagined transgression on your part and focus on that instead;

If you have independent evidence of any kind, its production engenders the same response as detailed above because we look at it from an entirely different perspective. You can expect the independent evidence to be attacked, tampered with or destroyed along with the plethora of manipulations that have been described above.

You may think that showing our kind definitive proof of our wrongdoing would cause us to hold our hands up and admit we have been caught. It does not work with our kind in that way. We have been designed to see things in a different way so that we will respond to protect ourselves from your criticism (or to draw more fuel and head off your challenge) and that is what we see and hear – criticism and/or fuel. These devices and manipulations occur because: –

  1. We are never at fault;
  2. We are superior to you;
  3. We must be in control;
  4. We are omnipotent;
  5. You are inferior;
  6. We are entitled to do what we want;
  7. We need fuel; and
  8. We hate criticism.

Save your independent evidence for the third parties. Save your breath and your sanity.

The only thing you will ever prove is how predictable, as narcissists, we are, when are confronted with proof.

13 thoughts on “Dealing With the Evidence

  1. crystallineperspectives says:

    Great examples! There is no point interacting at all whatsoever and the only win is in losing the narcissist.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I like that final phrase.

  2. Mandy K says:

    My narc ex has gone back to his ex wife after our 10 year relationship. As the final discard, he just ghosted me (one day prior we were making plans to visit his mother together out of state.) I’m still rather shocked, but the worst of it is that he is telling his ex wife phenomenal lies about our relationship- basically that I was “delusional” to think he ever loved me and that we would have a future together. His ex is also a narcissist, and has now began her own smear campaign- leaving things in my front lawn, calling my work, etc. I have books that the Nex wrote to me, professing his love and plans for the future. I am tempted to reveal these to speak my truth. Will this do any good? I’m tired of him suffering NO consequences while I’m mourning the loss of the man who I thought loved me, the future, the dream.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      There is no point revealing them as it will be counter productive. You should consult with me and I will explain in detail why this is, how it will impact on you and what you can do in this difficult situation.

      1. Mandy K says:

        HG..I am so glad you said this. The only response I had initially to his wife was that he lied about how long we had seen each other, and that I knew of at least one other woman he had carried on with. He lashed out at me, saying I provided “unnecessary facts” to hurt her, when all I did was say those two things- no get details. Since then BOTH of them have been attacking me. She can’t handle what he’s done and must know it’s far worse than she can imagine, and he’s furious that I said one word that possibly made his goals more difficult to achieve. I’m now the woman who took advantage of an Aspie—it is mind blowing—but I have not responded since and let my silence be my freedom. I figure it is the only revenge. He lives in peril that I’ll tell her anything else, and she knows I’ve moved away from his toxicity and hers.

  3. Findinglife11 says:

    So so true. Nailed it. That’s why in this way we just cant win and we feel it. No contact… the only way.

  4. HG is a very skilled Narcissist. He has said that empaths INFATUATE him. He has learned their behaviors, mannerisms, typical behaviors, reactions, so forth. But only through the eyes of a MASTER Narcissist. He logs away everything we say in his mind like a computer. Processing, adding up, deducing, calculating, equating, and setting up a computer algorithm for his victim. The more we tell him, the more he understands us. In his personal life of course. And that has helped many of you that are this way. Enlightening you to what you are, and why you do the things that you do. And given you many skills to protect yourself in your life from people like him from taking advantage of you.

    But… what does he do to the one that he cannot understand because he has to keep reconfiguring the program? He’s trying to put her into a box. But he can’t. Does the computer crash, and it needs to be rebooted? Who pushes the power button? Something to think about. I find him so fascinating.

  5. raine turner says:

    going out on a huge limb here=== nothing actually to do with this post! However recently watched the movie “Mother’— and apparently it is about god and ‘mother earth’–( I googled it after trying to figure out what it meant to the artists). However to me- this is the ‘perfect’ narc relationship! He makes her crazy—- and will not give the ending up— but suffice to say— wash, rinse, repeat! This movie got me—- it is a narc relationship to the core—- and ‘he’ can say it is about the bible all ‘he’ wants! Ladies– watch the movie—- it is scary– not in the way we think a ‘horror’ film should be- worse for us that have gone through it!

  6. Omj says:

    Every time I read this one – reminds me how zealous I was in finding the truth – evidence – pictures etc I was so good – every finding was a shock- than I felt enebriated and powerful – then full of challenge fuel I would charge my Narc and then go in such a depression.

    I will never forget the first set of pictures I saw of a Woman sunbathing at his house – he has no accounts but those woman post the pic – I saved the pic sent it to him and went ballistic – he has told me he was with IPPS.

    Then the second time – I just froze – there was months and months of pictures of everything we were doing together . That woman ate the same fruits , read my books , skied my hills, sailed my boat etc etc I froze – I never thought he had «  real » relationship with them – all the romance hashtags like each a knife to kill me.

    Since then I had a few pictures tantrum – but never that frozen – speechless – freaking beyond broken that I felt that November night.

    I think that was the first real proof I had he was not only lying – he was having relationships with them . Not only flings. Then came HG and the rest is my journey into detachment and reactachment and detachment again.

    I think it is a trauma and i can still feel that frozen moment in me .

  7. Chels says:

    Thank you so much for this! I am in BIG TROUBLE! I confronted my Narc with some dangerous things I found about him and now scary things are happening! He first acted nice as I showed him what I had found. Then told me not to contact him and that he would tell me later what is going on and went silent. Then a girl I don’t know contacted me asking if I am going to report HIM then mocked me and told me I am crazy and never going to hear from HIM again. I sent HIM a message and just told HIM good bye. Months passed, and now weird things are happening with my accounts on Linkedin and Facebook! At first I thought it was just a coincidence or a glitch. HE blocks and then unblocks then blocks me again with in hours on Linkedin which isn’t possible! When I would click on where HIS name was in my messenger as HE blocked me again, a fake page with a different name and account would pop up! This has happened on a off for 2 months. But the past 3 days is has been happening every day! I reported it to Linkedin and they are checking it out. It has been transferred over and over to other specialists because no one even with Linkedin can figure out how this is happening. When I am unblocked, I am not able to do anything but see his page and messages – I can’t block him and I can’t write him when I am unblocked. He is a computer genius with his job so I don’t know if he is doing this or it is a linkedin problem, but linked has never seen this before either!

  8. Mandy K says:

    HG- if a narcissist is smearing discarded supply as being “delusional” when he promised he was going to leave his marriage for me, what will he do if I provide his wife proof of the relation mship, in his own writing, photos etc? Is this a good or bad way to clear my name?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Read the book Smeared and consult with me about this matter as it is something that requires a detailed response to assist you in knowing the right things you should be doing and what to expect.

  9. Jojo says:

    Thank you for sharing this. I have been on the other side of this behavior for many years now beginning with the night he got caught cheating and still tried to deny it. When I produced irrefutable truth his response was “I didn’t do anything you never did” which was a complete lie and out of left field. The sad part is that even though I am being discarded now, I am having trouble letting go and moving on. It doesn’t help that he insists he’s not coming back and then will dangle hope that he might if l change. I don’t think I could be a better doormat yet apparently that isn’t good enough. Well, sorry for venting. Again, thanks for hipping us to the game so we don’t feel as if we’re going crazy.

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