Narcissist V Shelf IPSS


The following is a breakdown of an interaction between a Middle Mid-Range Narcissist and a Geyser Standard Empath. The two are in a Formal Relationship of Narcissist and Shelf IPSS (“SIPSS”), which those not benefiting from such knowledge would see as a married person who is having an affair with someone who is The Other Woman/Man.

  1. The narcissist and the SIPSS have spent the weekend together away in a coastal city. Therefore the SIPSS is off the shelf for the extent of the duration. She is painted white. The narcissist received positive fuel of a very good potency (SIPSS), massive quantity (in person, sexual interaction) and constantly (together all weekend).

2. The weekend ends and they leave the coastal city together. SIPSS off shelf and painted white.

3. The two part company and return to their respective homes. The SIPSS is now ON the shelf. This is not devaluation. The SIPSS remains painted white.

4. The following day, SIPSS sends a text to the narcissist

“It was great spending the weekend with you. I can’t wait until we do it again.”

This is pure positive fuel. Very good potency, one off frequency, very low quantity as short and in writing.

There is no response for an hour. The narcissist responds with

“It was great. Yes, we will do it again soon. I have a busy week ahead, so I will text you later on. Missing you.”

The SIPSS remains on the shelf. She remains painted white. This was a comfort crumb from the narcissist. It was pleasant, it maintains the engagement but signals to the SIPSS that she should not expect to hear from the narcissist often.

5. The following day there is no contact between the two. This is not a Silent Treatment, the SIPSS remains on the shelf and painted white.

6. The day after, the narcissist is reminded of the weekend. The SIPSS has entered his sixth sphere of influence. This is a Hoover Trigger. His Intimate Partner Primary Source has gone out for the evening unexpectedly. She in devaluation. Her departure has wounded the narcissist, he sends her an unpleasant text to provoke her in order to gain fuel. He requires fuel to address the wound, he can easily contact the SIPSS by text, social media or telephone, she has no partner, she has not wounded him, she provides excellent fuel and therefore the Hoover Bar is very low and the Hoover Execution Criteria are met. The narcissist telephones SIPSS. She has been taken off the shelf. They speak, fuel is provided, he berates his wife to the SIPSS (triangulation) and speak for about an hour. The call ends. The SIPSS goes back on the shelf and remains painted white.

7. There is no contact between the two of them for three days.

8. The SIPSS sends a text message early in the morning to the narcissist

“How are you? Just wanted to let you know I am missing you.”

Positive fuel. Very good potency, one-off frequency, very low amount.

There is an instant response from the narcissist by text

“I miss you too.”

The SIPSS sends a further text.

“I cannot wait until we can see one another again.”

Positive fuel, very good potency, one-off frequency, very low amount.

There is no response from the narcissist. The SIPSS remains on the shelf. She is painted white. The narcissist has not given a silent treatment but the lack of response is purely symptomatic of being on the shelf.

9. The following day the SIPSS texts the narcissist again early in the morning

“Hi, are you okay?”

Positive fuel, very good potency one-off frequency, very low amount.

There is no response. The SIPSS is still on the shelf, painted white and this is not a silent treatment.

10. She waits thirty minutes and texts again

“Please will you answer me, I hate not hearing from you.”

Positive fuel, very good potency, one-off frequency, very low amount.

Ten minutes later the narcissist replies by text

“I was in the shower. Busy day ahead. Will text later.”

This is a comfort crumb. The SIPSS is on the shelf and painted white.

11. There has been no contact between the two and it is now 5pm. The SIPSS texts again

“I really find it hard not hearing from you.”

This is positive fuel, very good potency, one-off frequency, very low amount.

There is no response from the narcissist. The SIPSS is on the shelf and painted white.

12. She waits ten minutes and texts again

“I thought you said you were going to text me later? This hurts.”

This is now Challenge Fuel. Her admission of hurt is negative fuel (albeit a very small amount as it is contained in a text) – however she is seeking to hold the narcissist to something he stated. The narcissist is NOT wounded by this, but regards this as a challenge to his superiority because the SIPSS is trying to make him feel accountable and this feels like his control is being eroded.

13. The narcissist replies with a text two minutes later

“I told you I had a busy day ahead, I am in a meeting.”

He is providing an explanation and asserting his superiority by looking to close the matter. He has not been provocative and is not seeking fuel from the SIPSS.

14. The SIPSS answers immediately

“Sorry, I didn’t know. When will you text me, or will you give me a call?”

This is Challenge Fuel again. The apology is a very small amount of positive fuel, the request for a call is mildly Challenging BUT aggregates with the earlier text message. The narcissist has not been able to assert the superiority to the extent required.

He texts back immediately

“No idea. V busy. Cannot talk now.”

He is not seeking fuel (he will be well fuelled whatever he is doing – maybe in the meeting or if not in a meeting in some other interaction) but needs to assert superiority and is seeking to close the challenge down. The SIPSS remains on the shelf and remains painted white

15. The SIPPS does not relent. She texts back straight away :-

” Will it be tonight? I want to talk to you, I always enjoy our chats. I hate not hearing from you.”

Again positive Challenge Fuel.

There is no response from the narcissist. His lack of response is designed to assert superiority by halting the conversation and thus the challenge from the SIPSS. The SIPSS remains on the shelf and painted white.

16. The SIPSS texts again :-

“Will it be tonight? I want us to talk, please.”

No response from the narcissist. Same point as above applies.

17. The SIPSS texts again :-

“Just yes or no, that’s all, I miss you.”

Positive Challenge Fuel.

No response from the narcissist. Same point as above applies.

18. The SIPSS texts again :-

“Will you answer me? It will only take you a second. Don’t ignore me.”

Negative Challenge Fuel. The irritation is fuel and the request to answer, prescriptive statement on the time taken and command not to ignore are the challenges.

No response from the narcissist. Same point applies.

19. The SIPSS texts again :-

“Answer me. This is not fair. Stop ignoring me. You had better answer me or I will call you at home on the landline.”

Negative Challenge Fuel. Annoyance plus criticism and threat.

20. The narcissist responds

“I said I am BUSY. Stop texting me. I said I would text you later but you cannot leave it can you? You dare ring my house. If you do, that’s it, it’s over. You’ve pissed me off.”

The narcissist is irritated by the SIPSS failure to accede to his superiority. She is not wounding because fuel is being provided.

The SIPSS repeated failure to stop texting and be patient now means she is painted black. She has failed to accept the narcissist’s superiority. She has not been compliant. The narcissist will now ignore her texts completely. She is being given a Corrective Devaluation which is an absent silent treatment.

21. The upset SIPSS fires off ten more texts. She makes no threats but insults the narcissist and complains about him being unfair and uncaring. These are either pure fuel or challenge fuel. The narcissist does not respond. The SIPSS realises there will be no response so she stops texting. She does not call the home landline.

The narcissist, in accordance with the Corrective Devaluation does not contact the SIPSS at all that night.

The SIPSS is on the shelf, painted black and subject to a Corrective Devaluation.

22. The next day the SIPSS sends a text at midday

“I am really sorry I pestered you yesterday, I know you work hard, it is only because I wanted to hear from you. I won’t do it again. I adore you and I will just wait to hear from you.”

This is pure positive fuel. The narcissist on reading this instinctively recognises that his superiority has been accepted again by the climbdown. The text is a Hoover Trigger. The narcissist sees this climbdown and views the SIPSS as white again. The Hoover Execution Criteria are met and he telephones the SIPSS. The conversation only last 5 minutes but he assures the SIPSS that they will speak tonight.

The SIPSS is still on the shelf, painted white and the Corrective Devaluation has ended.

23. The narcissist recalls his promise to call. This is a Hoover Trigger. The Hoover Execution Criteria are met (he recalls excellent fuel from the SIPSS, she is easy to contact, she has not wounded, there are no obstacles) and thus he does indeed telephone her and they speak for two hours that evening whilst the IPPS is out at the rifle range. For this telephone call the SIPSS is off the shelf, painted white. Positive fuel is provided during the conversation. It is of very good quality as coming from an SIPSS, the frequency is constant for the duration of the call and it is of moderate quantity since it is a telephone call.

Once the call ends, the SIPSS is back on the shelf and painted white.

24. Around midnight with the IPPS sound asleep and the narcissist in his bolthole, he recalls the telephone call (hoover trigger) and again the Hoover Execution Criteria are met ( similar to points above at 23) so he sends a text to the SIPSS. She replies immediately. They text back and forth for an hour. During this exchange the SIPSS is off the shelf and painted white. Positive fuel is provided. It is of very good quality, very frequent and low quantity because it is in writing. The narcissist is in-between engaging with another SIPSS online through social media and thus has two fuel lines open at this point.

When the texting ends, the SIPSS is placed back on the shelf and is painted white. The narcissist engages still with the other SIPSS and does so through Skype engaging in some mutual masturbation. Once that has concluded, the call ends and that SIPSS goes on the shelf also.

Accordingly, this short series of interactions provides the pattern of behaviours, clarifies how the appliance is regarded, how a Corrective Devaluation works, shows the shift from white to black to white, the fuel gathered, the type of interaction occurring and also the entwinement with other appliances also.




93 thoughts on “Narcissist V Shelf IPSS

  1. SuperEmpath says:

    And if they don’t think that we are good enough to be their girlfriend, then they should just move on and go no contact with us instead of putting us in this shelf, on and off position. I would tell him that I wanted time away to move on and he contacted me the next week. Normal people know that it takes much longer than a week to get over somebody and move on.

    But from the narcissistic perspective, as we see it is completely different…..

    From ours … we see them contact us so we think it is because they are interested but yet they reject us. It’s a contradiction in itself. This just sucks …

  2. SuperEmpath says:

    Shelf IPSS, Magnet Super Empath here –

    The VLMRN is useless to me. I can’t get what I need or want from him and it is pain in the ass. I am getting fed up. I have a prepaid phone where I can’t block on it. In order to get the actual blocking services, I would have to get a contract which doubles the cost of what I pay right now – ALLLLLLL to dump his ass for good b/c he NEVER goes away. I am really annoyed about this.

  3. Vnarcobsessed says:

    Today was the first day that I saw the true darkness within my narc. I am (was) a sipss, and our texting took a rather dark turn on his part. Aggression, mean. I was absolutely shocked. He has never been cruel. I sent a screenshot of his venomous words alongside a text asking him to please NEVER contact me again due to his aggression. He immediately blocked, and I blocked everywhere else he thought his sneaky ass could creep in. I was so foolish in carrying on with this weenie. I see this asshole in person all the time; is it best to ignore or be pleasant as we are in a large social group and we were carrying on an affair. Thoughts? Thank you.

  4. Vnarcobsessed says:

    Is it common for the mid range narcissist to have a rather lengthy text conversation and to make plans with a sipss should she reach out to him? I’m surprised at how long our conversation was; beginning to think perhaps I was experiencing a silent treatment for some negative comments I threw at him last week. Any thoughts to help me understand?

  5. Kim e says:

    HG. what happens when the mmrn realizes there has been an escape of a sipss? Does he try to Hoover back in? Or just discard and wait until next time?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      He will be wounded, there will be an ignition of fury and his response will be governed by the Hoover Execution Criteria.

  6. Supernova DE says:

    From the narc’s perspective are there specific times when you will read but not respond to texts vs. not read them at all? Is there meaning behind that difference? Thank you.

    Wondering as MMRN does either or, but my mother does also and wondering if there is something to decode in the difference.

    1. MB says:

      That’s what I get for assigning a distinct text tone. I did that all on my own.

  7. Kim e says:

    HG. Hello. If a SIPSS has not texted in 5 months and the MMRN has not text in 3 months am I still on the shelf or have I been disengaged from?
    How would I know the difference?
    Does the narc expect me to text?
    Thank you

  8. Kathy Mor says:

    Taking aside the SIPSS’ insistence on texting him when he had already said he was going to be “busy”, everything else is the story of my life. I was the primary source. I didn’t pester my ex narc with texts back to back because I could feel his anger, besides, just like HG wrote, he would just ignore me for longer periods of time. It is like drowning in dry water, if that’s possible.

    But yes, this is it right here, how the interaction went on a daily basis for 06 years, and honestly? I am so glad it is over. Just reading this posting revived those feelings inside. I am so glad I am done with this. No more waiting. No more wondering. No more anxiety. No more crumbs.
    And now that I understand triangulation, he is a sorry ass for using his daughters to triangulate me.
    I would say: I miss you. I can’t wait to see you tonight.
    He wouldn’t answer me until it was close to the time we always met to say that he wanted to spend quality time with his daughter, since he missed her and that he was taking her out for dinner and then to the movies instead.
    Detail: they live in the same house and had dinner together the night before.
    Another detail: she is also a narcissist who controls his life.
    If it is not her, he has two other daughters who provide him with plenty of excuses for triangulation.

    I am so glad I am out of that sick dynamic. So done.

    I have been discarded. Whoever he has right now has no clue what awaits for her when the bronze period ends…. she will not only be dealing with his as the Matt but his oldest daughter as well, and the constant manipulation from her part. She wins hands down and that’s not going to change…

    Hey girls, I am single. If you know of any guy who is not s narc, send him my ways. Applications are being accepted!!!

  9. Kim e says:

    Good Morning,
    Just having a bad day being SIPSS. I have changed up my routine and that has helped me immensely. But still do not seem to be able to go NC.
    Just thought I would come around some people that get it.
    I think the hard part for me is that I was still in the golden period when I caught on and never saw any of the bad. I read about others experiences and think that is awful but can not put myself in their shoes because I have not lived it.
    Thanks all….just needed to ramble. Any wise words are appreciated.

    1. Supernova DE says:

      I re-read this article today and came across your comment. Are you still entangled or now NC?
      I find myself in a similar situation to you as you describe. Saw some negatives but nothing compared to what is described for IPPS here. It does make it harder but I assume there is a reason you realized he is a narc….not answering messages or disappearing cause you’re on the shelf? They certainly are insidious in their ways with a SIPSS.
      Just wanted to reply to you and say that I’ve had a similar experience.

      1. Kim e says:

        SN. Thanks for the reply and checking on me

        I did not know that he was a narc until after I found out he was married. Now I am no angel by any means and had done married before. But they had always been upfront with me so it was my choice to become involved. It pissed me off that he had lied to me about it (little did I know) and I walked. I was eventually deleted as I would later find out from HG
        Well then the addiction kicked in and I was like a caged animal. Long story short I allowed myself to be hoovered back in in January, all good of course, sex for first time in April. Lots of conversation and crumbs in April and part of May. Then nothing
        I figured out the first week in June that he was on vacation with the Mrs. I said f it. Did not block at that time but changed up my routine. He texted when back and I ignored. He tried other avenues like thru my friends and weird phone calls but I did not respond
        He was with the military all of July and I got hoovered once. I ignored. Back in August and I lost my mind and when the text came through I answered it without thinking. It of course was an I was wondering and worried about you text. I know it was just a “will she reply” text. I then blocked from my phone
        But alas I have gone backwards and unblocked. I was at peace with it and figured I will just get on with it and if he texts do he it. HG would of course say emotional thinking
        Then Friday I was watching tv and the text alert I used for him sounded on the show and my trigger was sprung and I have been on high alert ever since.
        Do I want to hear from him? Get “back” with him? Laugh with him? YES. Do I know I shouldn’t? That he is no good for me? That it will hurt all over again? YES
        I have done email consults with HG but it was in the beginning to understand. Now that I understand it does not seem to make s difference. Guess it is time for a chat with HG to see if he can get thru my blocked mind
        Sorry for the rambling. How are you doing?

        1. MB says:

          Kim e, those damn text tones get me too!

          1. Supernova DE says:

            MB and kim,
            Yep I get that too. Narc and I switched to different messaging app more than a year ago. We used to use FB messenger. I still can’t hear the typical sound messenger makes without getting a tiny adrenaline rush, 15 months later!! I keep messenger silenced at all times lol (smh at myself)

        2. Supernova DE says:

          I appreciated your rambling lol. I am in the exact place as you. Can’t seem to get to NC, even though I know I should. I feel the same way about wanting him to contact and wanting the good times but knowing it’s for the best not to get back into it.
          I also relate entirely to what you say about having consulted HG to understand but now that knowledge doesn’t push you to go NC like you might expect. This continually confuses me, but I feel the same way.
          I have been shelved again recently. About two weeks ago. I got a few crumbs but then he just completely ignored my last few messages entirely. I’m not blocked, but he hasn’t even opened the messaging app we use as far as I can tell. I’ve stopped trying and it’s been a week or so. Very little anxiety on my part which is an improvement over other times for me.
          The last thing I sent him was a true rendering of my feelings, what I wish was different, that I’d be happy to talk to establish a better understanding between us, but that I’m moving on. Maybe I sent that hoping for a preventive hoover haha. It never came.
          And of course it wouldn’t change anything in the long run, I know that. But at least I feel now that even if I never speak to him again, I’ve told the truth. I have no plans to text him. I really don’t have anything else I could think to say to him.

          1. Kim e says:

            SN. I just sent a request to HG for a consultation. Not the oral but the 4 question one. I need some answers, even tho I think I know them , to help get back on track.
            How long where you off the shelf this time? How long has the one and off been going for? Are you a SIPSS?
            This sucks. I am so disappointed because I thought I was doing good. Must be lying to myself

          2. Supernova DE says:

            Kim e,
            I can totally empathize with you! I’ve known him since childhood but have been an SIPSS (long distance) for 3.5 years.
            I had been doing well post discard (I think I was discarded but can’t be sure I wasn’t shelved or absent silent treatment) but had a lapse and contacted him. I was off the shelf about a month.

            Oddly, right after I posted that yesterday he sent me a one line text…sometimes I swear he can read my mind haha. I did not respond. I take his text to mean:
            1. “Please keep trying cause I sense you are checking out, but reading your texts and not having to respond is easy AF fuel for me”
            2. “Please keep being confused by my behavior/what I say/when I say it/when I ignore you/how long I ignore you/the excuses I make/my contradictions”
            3. “Please just keep hanging on, don’t go NC, there’s a chance for redemption if you just flagellate yourself for me, just a little more, it won’t hurt too much I swear”
            4. “You’re being crazy you harpie, see how I had a (lame) reason not to respond before. I am the reasonable one, clearly you owe me an apology”

            Well. Fuck. That.

            I don’t need much in this situation as I am married too and all I really wanted out of the deal was a little sexual satisfaction on the side. But no effort means no pussy and no empathy. Maintain me or lose me. Simple.

            Got my sass back, that’s a step in the right direction for me. For sure.

            Good luck with your consult. HG has helped me via email three times and it has always been worth it. Happy to chat anytime Kim!

          3. Kim e says:

            “Well Fuck That”
            We are so in control……LOL All BIG statements but when that text comes, not use about you, but I know I will turn to jello. I Blocked and unblocked so many times in one day I had to double check at the end of the day to see what his status was.
            Right now his status is unblocked and I am back to parking by him at the train station. I guess I fell off the NC wagon hard. Still convinced he will not hoover and if he does I will ignore him. As he is a MMRN and they are so scared about being wounded, I figure if I ignore him enough he will go away.
            STOP LAUGHING :-)>>>LOL. That sounds about as ridiculous as us saying Fuck That.

          4. Supernova DE says:

            Kim e,
            Oh you’re totally right it’s all big talk. The trick is turning it into long term success, and I’m certainly no poster child for that haha.
            But I figure any day I can maintain a “well fuck that” attitude is a good day, cause it gives me emotional distance.
            If old patterns persist, and don’t they always with a narc?, then I will eventually get a “Hi, how are you?” text followed by a pathetic, “kinda miss talking to you,” text. Mine is MMRN also, so hoovers have little charm or energy, and if I don’t respond favorably he backs off and tries again a few weeks later.

            Cut yourself some slack. You’re not talking to him, so that’s good. You haven’t reached out. But it seems your ET is back. There will always be ebbs and flows, it’s abnormal for us to expect otherwise of ourselves. At least that’s my opinion.

          5. Kim e says:

            Here is a story that tells you how warped this whole thing is.
            I got a text on Easter Sunday playing with the option of coming over to have sex. Both my grown sons were in the neighborhood visiting friends and we passed. He told me in the beginning of the conversation that he had to leave at 2 to go to his moms.
            At 2:10 I said……you are going to be late. He said “I was only hanging around waiting for you and since I am not going to get to see you I left early. I am at my moms now”
            SN….he is my neighbor!!!! I walked out my back down, looked down the street and his SUV was in his driveway!!!!!!
            I played along. We chatted about 30 more minutes and he disappeared.
            He picked it back up around 7:00 pretending he had just gotten home.
            I also know his wife was home with him because when she is gone his car in in the street. (He doesn’t know that I know he is married)
            She must have been in devaluation at the time.
            Talk about games….from N and E…..

          6. Supernova DE says:

            Kim e,
            Yes, I have played so many games with him on my end as well. I am not innocent by any means.
            They, of course, lie like they breath. I have learned this, and he has tried but it no longer phases me because I expect him to lie, and talk to other women, and be a jerk. The only thing he has left is to ignore me, silent treatment etc. It will take a very long time for that to not affect me, it’s ingrained from childhood issues….

  10. analise13 says:

    I wonder where Lori, IL, FOS and Jenna are.
    I hope they are well and away from their narcissists.
    I know they went through this too.
    I ask questions about shelved DLSIPSS for a family member,
    not myself.
    She is a Geyser codependent Empath.
    According to HG classifications.
    I wanted to clarify that.
    I have GOSO!
    Years ago.
    I am trying to get her to GOSO.
    By first realizing she is not the Only one.
    Why she is shelved and silenced so often
    And for so long.
    Why she stays.
    Why I asked so many questions.
    The more I know.
    The more she might understand.
    She won’t participate on the blog.
    Apologies HG for all my questions about this previously.

  11. Jane hall says:

    When I told my X that I had consulted a counsellor who was himself a Narc – my x said “how do you know he doesn’t get a kick telling you to leave your husband” Seems he GOT the narc thinking straight away.
    Hg has helped me escape and if he gets a kick out of that – then he is very welcome. LOL

  12. DebbieWolf says:


    How long does the testing time for a candidate IPSS last for you personally?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It varies.

      1. DebbieWolf says:

        I kind of knew it would be variable realistically so it isn’t meant to be a silly question. My thinking is I was just wondering if it had a general ish time frame simply because of the often ritualistic ways of doing things by your kind. i.e.ex machina.
        I wondered if you experienced a kind of time frame a bit like you know in advance that someone is lucky to make a year before devaluation etc.
        Thank you for your reply as reading my quetion later I thought it sounded a little silly..though not meant to be.

  13. MB says:

    Can one remain on the shelf for two years? I was able to leave a voice mail, but didn’t get a response. Would that mean I wasn’t blocked? It seemed more like disengagement.

    1. HG Tudor says:


      1. MB says:

        What’s the longest you ever shelved an IPSS HG?

  14. Echo says:

    A very insightful piece. It makes extremely helpful but uncomfortable reading as it highlights not only machinations of the narcissists mind but also the partial responsibility we empathy must take in facilitating the process. i would be interested to understand a little about how the narcissist would feel and react should the empath have sent number nine ‘how are you…and had the strength not to send the follow up texts when no answer arrives. Than you.

    1. Quasi says:

      Hi Echo,

      When I first read the article I thought that it would mean the narcissist feels the ipss is being compliant and sitting nicely on the shelf. They have been kept in their place. Although I’m sure that as the narcissist gets a bigger hit from negative reactions ( re- form of delivery) a reaction and chasing is enjoyed by the narcissist as it makes them feel important and wanted.

      I was very much a -don’t follow up or chase ipss on the shelf, when he did not respond but clearly read a message ( majorly of our communication was on messenger probably because it’s free lol, and so I could see that he had read but not responding).
      I did not chase him, I think once when he he not turned up to meet me for a planned evening, I messged him when I got home ( late as I stayed out with other friends) and could see he was online, he opened read and ignored, I followed up with “clearly I am being stupid then” – but only this once and it was fuelled by gin and wilfulness. ( I believe he was also annoyed that I had not chased him earlier in the evening when he did not show up at the agreed time, but I had not. I was upset but I did not contact him until like 1.30am when I was home)

      Im not sure if me not chasing him was seen as a fail in testing, I was always one to respond quickly to messages generally, if I was close to phone and able. But I don’t keep mobile data on, on my phone all the time, as it drains my battery. At times it would be hours due to this as I literally did not see a message or email until I was in WiFi signal or turned my mobile data on. On these occasions I would find a few messages of him chasing at times with ????????? As he was pissed off because I had not responded ASAP. How dare I…

      It will always be about perception, with the narcissist I knew, it appeared that he would perceive what it suited him to perceive at the time, dependent on overall mood, and what he wanted to gain from the interaction at that time.

      So it could have been –
      “ good empath she is being compliant she knows her place and my superiority and control over her is in tact”
      “ she is not responding – painted black as I want her to respond and want me, how dare she ignore me too! I am definitely not contacting her first”
      Toddler tantrum incredible sulk..

      Regardless of his perspective mine was always different and pretty much sounded like this

      “ I’m not chasing you, I can see you want a reaction from me. But no. I value myself and know what I’m worth, if you can’t see it or don’t care then that’s down to you. And besides your being a grade A dick and I deserve better”
      ( clearly inner monologue)

      So when he chose not to respond, I did not chase or respond either. It was these interactions that taught me the most important lessons. They also reinforced my value for myself rather then deminish it. When he did this more often I got a fire back and would be more resolved.
      For me they were the interaction that started the end of our dance!

      However I am but one person he performed this charade with, I’m sure it worked for him more often then not .. being a creature of habit, instinct and little imagination he just did the same with everyone with a pot luck effect, he was definitely opportunistic in actions taken, rather then creative.

      1. Omj says:

        When I was still in control – first 6 months – it was the ping pong theory – I would respond rapidely – never initiated – and would not pursue if no answers ( not sending 2 texts if no answers) I got crazy for a good 1.75 year – just flurying and firing my venom with long and nasty responses when things went wrong. I met HG- got better – was under control and got to understand the mechanic – had a major major relapse – went nc – now I am shelved – unshleved and back to ping pong.

        1. Quasi says:

          On my journey,

          In being unshelved and ping pong again, do you mean that the narcissist initiated contact and your engaging with them again? Is there any scope for escape and no contact this time round?
          Good for you in not responding to their no response, I hope that things get easier and you can see a way through what is happening now.

          1. Omj says:

            I should have added tsome my long answer : he hoovered me – after 1.5 months – I ignored him and he hoovered 2 weeks after – it was my bday – I was in a good mood – I answered and the ball atarted rollling. Also I meant I had intimacy once since that hoovered.

            He is big into sex with me – what created the chaos with IPSS 1 when I ran into her was that she found out how much sex we were having as she had none with him . He of courses had lied and said him and I had no sex either . She was flabbergasted and wounded beyond control hence why I escaped – I had exposed two Narcs to one another – I did not wanted to be in between their riots … lol

          2. Quasi says:

            Ah, understood, I’m glad you escaped again.. Agreed that it’s best stay out of the riots, unless you can get a free tv out of it!! ( that was a particularly bad joke- but still what came to my odd mind.. lol)

          3. Omj says:

            Quasi – escaped got hoovered and I am in contact Now 🙂

            In any case – I don’t watch tv but I like Audi’s :)) lol

      2. Echo says:

        Dear Quasi,

        Thank you so much for taking the time to share such a detailed reflection. It certainly helps to read others experiences and I am impressed at the inner strength and self worth you show. I have been in a rather intense dance with my narcissist for almost ten years and yet thhere is always so much still to learn, not only about them but about ourselves. I now no longer follow up when i don’t receive an answer . Logic tells me that this is the only way to ensure some self preservation and self worth but it is still a painful process . I wonder how long it will last this time ? Thanks

        1. Quasi says:

          Hi Echo, The detailed reflection element made me chuckle – thank you .. it is unfortunately my way of expression, but I can laugh at myself in regards to this. Another one below… lol.

          10 years is a long dance Echo, I commend you in your strength to alter your response to the narcissist at this stage, that move in itself demonstrates great fortitude.
          It is definitely a self preservation exercise, the only advise I have is to try and shift focus to you and your needs. Looking inside to try and identify them again, what do you need to feel fulfilled and who YOU want to be. Not who the narcissist wants you to be.

          In this period of silence if you can, use the pain to motivate change, shifting perspectives, ask yourself what do I want? Write it out, release pain and emotions in written words, a journal for your eyes only.

          One of the biggest elements of self worth is the focus on, and acknowledgement of your importance and significance to yourself ( healthy self love) and your importance and significance to others( which others is important here).
          Identifying who’s opinion really counts? who is in your arena that you value and listen to. Who knows the core of you, who knows your soul? Who do you FEEL values you?
          They are the only people that count when it comes to an external opinion of you and your worth.

          I hope that your narcissist is not on the list, if possible it may be time to erase them from the list and work towards extracting yourself from their pathological reality. I do not know your situation or what type of relationship you have with the narcissist in your life. I’m certain that I could not comprehend the intrinsic layers of binds that you may feel you have with them. But I hope for you that in working on the focus towards yourself, you can start cutting the binds that tie you to them, gradually one at a time, potentially in a manner that they do not notice.

          Inner strength can manifest in different forms, every human has a spirit that can build upon their own individual capacity to be strong and have the strength that they need to overcome.
          You can overcome Echo, have faith in you and your capacity to be real, to work towards a future you want to see, and live.

          My dance with the narcissist was very short at just under a year, and I’m aware that my advise and understanding may not be truly applicable to you and your situation; however it is given with good intent and hope, that you find your way to where you want to be, In whichever way works best for you. Take care Echo.

        2. Quasi says:

          Please ignore the long post Echo, I do not know enough to really give advise here. I need to learn, to stay within my competencies and I have not had the extent of experience that others have had on the blog. Thank you for your kindness in your response though, and good luck in your journey.

      3. Echo says:

        Dear Omj, I’m also interested in what you mean by relapse – do you mean you hit in touch?
        Nc-contact – did you allow the contact to begin again?
        Shelved- I shelved-ping pong?

        I am currently on my ‘second round’ after 4years of the dance then 3yr silent period ( after I caused big narcissistic injury) and now 2 yrs ( when he returned I pursued by me ) .i sense that the silence is creeping in again Is no correct ultimately the only way to change the dynamic? Is there any way to maintain love and respect and move on ?

        1. Omj says:

          Here’s is the story
          First 9 months – IPSS number 1
          Meaning I was the one IPSS with whom he spent most of his free time. Vacations etc. IPPS is not always available because of career etc

          Devaluation started when I took a break from him to take care of health issues. About 3 weeks that turned into 6 weeks.

          He found new IPSS ( S) while I was gone and devaluation accelerated and slowly was salami sliced down to IPSS number 2 and then number 3.

          In January this year – I escaped 10 days – this is when I started my work with HG.

          I came back back – he made me plainly work my way up to IPSS 2 . I ended up running into IPSS 1 and got into a big crazy 3 days chaos of insane triangulations and plots etc she is a narc too – she was trying to control me and him etc. I escaped – very bruised and totally disgusted of both of Them. I had returned for a specific aim- was almost there – but he pushed me beyond myself and as I was vacillating already I ended up escaping as I wrote .

          Escaped for 2 months -was blocking – unblocking- playing with fire . Started talking again – texting – calling- intimacy.

          So here I am – not really back – I don’t want to go to his place or spend too much time with him- but I enjoy our distanced daily texts interactions. I did had intimacy once – not sure I want this again.

          We may have a professional project together – I have still not signed anything.

          I am really fence sitting now. I don’t want to be close to him or see him too much or go to his place or travel with him – but enjoy his distanced presence . He has many IPSS so he does not pressure me into seeing him and I am sure he enjoys the distance too as he is free to lead his non sense life.

          Ping pong means that I respond – and send textes but only one time him – one time me- if he does not answer I don’t send a second one –
          But if he writes I answer.

          I observe him. I take all the knowledge HG gave me and I use it to observe him and his moves.

          I used to demand him for time – I have no demands . I keep calm – I don’t interact more than a dozen texts back and forth a day – so don’t go into too deep.

          In a way – I don’t care as much – I don’t need him as much – I still obssess too much or think too much about him – but it does not push me to act . I tell myself … oh .. you think about him . Ok that shall past – he is a narcissist – you are addicted . That shall pass.

          Hope this answers your question.

          Funny feeling really.

          1. Tammy says:

            Omj, I really got a lot from this.
            Thank you!

      4. Echo says:

        Dear Quasi,
        I’d like to thank you sincerely for your words, for your thoughts and your sensitivity. I could not ignore your last post as requested as it went to the core of what this relationship is about. As you said these relationships are complex. Of course the rational thing to do is to walk away – which is why the incisive rationality of Mr Tudor is so valuable and yet I have always been able to recognise the fragility that remains deep inside the narcissist – which may be our downfall 😊 So much of their actions are rooted in a very deep fear and vulnerability.

        You posed some very truthful and precious questions that ultimately are not so easy to face: who knows the core of you? Who knows your soul? Who do you feel values you? These are not so easy to think about because of course they hold within them heart of the empath’s predicament – we never really know the answer because we give so much to knowing the other that we give little value to be core of ourself . I will hold onto this . With thanks , Echo

        1. Quasi says:

          Hi Echo,

          ( I can’t seem to stop myself with words in expression- epic comment coming right up)

          Thank you so much for your reply and the kindness you have expressed also, I’m glad that you saw my comments in such a nice and reflective way.

          What you have described is the reason why I posted subsequently to ignore my words, I was aware that they could be raw, and draw the attention the the core of any relationship, which is difficult. The relationship with ourself being equally as difficult, and ultimately How we value others and want to be valued in return.

          I was acutely aware that you have been in a long term relationship with a narcissist, and I have no knowledge or real understanding of what this would feel like, so I felt a bit of a fraud in trying to advise you.
          On reflection My competencies are not in my understanding of the narcissist dynamic or what it feels like to be involved in a long term interaction with this personality type.
          But they are in understanding the human spirit, the emotional mind, the core beliefs and structure that people have. The ideology behind the fact that we all have a persona / some have more then one, that we feel we need to present to the world to feel acceptable and to be accepted.
          The concept of having a persona or mask is not reserved only for narcissists, every person has this. ( with an awareness or not, aims of the persona are specific to the person)

          It is my belief that when an empath has a wounded soul for whatever reason, sometimes a persona is constructed to protect the core/ vulnerable self from harm, and we want the persona to be accepted and validated by all. However it can become a restriction in itself because the empath needs to become that person to feel able to interact with anyone, and they lose a little understanding and acceptance of their true core self every time they step behind the other persona. ( this is all quite similar to the narcissist, like we walk the same line, but one is in the light and the other is in the dark).

          So the knowing of “my core” “who am I “ are very difficult questions to ask oneself, to know who you are is integral to valuing who you are, and this is why so many ( not just narcissists) struggle to self validate also. As validation is the recognition of value.
          We can see the value in others, we can see their light, their beauty, their intelligence, their confidence, their beautiful soul.. however when a shield persona is in place for so long we can not see our own core self, it’s obscured because we have lost the ability to see behind our own mask. The wounded soul the persona is trying to shield is also so vulnerable, that to dig into it is just as scary. But this may be the only way to move forward. To strip back the persona, and the core self and try and reintegrate them so there is not such a vast gap between the two, the growing gap between the core and the persona is an uncomfortable “hinterland “
          ( love that word so had to use it).

          To strip back is a process of identifying and acknowledging all parts of you, good, bad, light, dark. Shining a light on them and saying ok, I see this part of me, and I accept it.
          Then pull them all together again to build a stronger structure of being that you know and accept – a being you can value, a being who has worth, a being that you can self validate.

          I also saw the narcissists fragility and pain, this is what linked Me to him for the longest time after disengagement. My understanding of his pain and why he feels it.

          Rational / logical mind is brilliant, it can weigh evidence, pros and cons, it can tell you not to pick up that phone, not to send that email, not to send that message as the narcissist will not see the meaning of your words but only the fact that you have made contact.

          However it is not all powerful and can not stop you feeling what you feel, it can only guide you in not reacting to what you feel, in potentially detrimental ways.
          There is a need to feel emotions and release them in a productive and effective way, however this works for you. But they need to be heard and recognised nonetheless.

          The narcissist I knew told me that I had kind eyes, that he could see my soul through them. He told me that my voice was kind and soft and it soothed him, it was like he wanted me as a balm to soothe the raging pain inside.

          I felt a drain of emotion when I spent time with him and when we interacted over message, it was like he was taking little bits of me, of my soul.

          There is a future islands song that now always makes me think of this. It’s a song about adoration, and it is beautiful in my mind. Lyrically it speaks of the other person being the sun in the morning, and my star of the evening. The chorus says “ she feeds me daily soul, she feeds me daily soul, she talks right to my soul”.
          ( I’m using the album artwork for the singles compilation that has this song on it, as my avatar at the moment- I love the artist that they use for their artwork, it also symbolises to me a woman exhibiting strength, with a free open mind, floating! Just being what she is) this is the song-

          I don’t know if this will help you or not, but on the days I struggled most, the days post disengagement when I wanted to be something to him, the days when I wanted to get his validation for some reason ( because I gave him the power to validate me).
          I made an image in my mind of him as a zombie like in the walking dead. I would find him in a room, a dark room. My instinct would be to go to him to help him, I could see his pain, I could see his struggle, but he was a zombie, he had died inside and was only capable of harming me. He was moving, talking, but the eyes were black, and he had all of the horrible and obvious wounds as you see in movies. It was like his emotional wounds were on the surface in this image and there were many, he was covered in wounds that could not heal.
          When I found him in this room, he came towards me, but it was clear to see when I could see him, that his intention was not good, he came towards me to consume me, to end me, to feed off my soul.
          He was chained into this room as the narcissist was is chained into his cycle, in my imagery I needed to turn away from him, walk away from him, back to the light the other side of the door to this room, leave the room and close the door on him.
          When I used this imagery it helped me as it reminded me of the fundamental reason to stay away from the narcissist. They will consume you.

          1. Windstorm says:

            Several things you said resonated with my own experience. I have persona and “faces” that I have deliberately constructed for certain situations. I have always been aware of this, because it was deliberate. I never let them dominate the real me though, because I thought of all my different faces as just facets of my multi-part personality. So in a sense, they were all “the real me”. When I have to assume one I am less favored of, I always think that line from Henry V, “Once more unto the breach, dear friends” and invision my self in my armor charging out to war.

            I feel all the emotions coming from narcissists, just like I do other people, but I’ve learned over the years to keep these emotions from hurting me. I just see them as very needy people and try to be soothing and pleasant as much as I can without getting too drained or hurt myself. Your strategy of imagining them as zombies would never work with me, because I would feel such pain and worry for them being trapped in such a horrible state! Glad it works for you though. We do each have to find our own solutions.

            Now it’s time for me to leave my quiet hotel room. “Once more unto the breach….” 😄

          2. Omj says:

            Hg … sometimes I am puzzled – I was really ok / sailing into my life – Narc came back – nothing has changed in my life – no drama with Narc – yet I feel depressed and I have the blues.

            I wonder why ? I am taking a few days NC now – found a good excuse – to see if I will feel better.

          3. Quasi says:

            Hello windstorm,

            I hope you are well.
            It sounds like you have a really healthy intergtated self, that can easily interchange parts of your personality to be who you need to be in different situations or with different people.. that is very good thing, and even better as it is consciously decided upon, that would come with a true sense of self and I hope acceptance. There would be no hinterland of a gap between them by the sounds of it.

            For others I am aware that it may be less of a conscious decision and a step away from the true / core self as there can be a shame there, and that can not to be visable to others. I have known people who have developed personas as a safety behaviour in a way, but have stepped so far from the core / true self that they are exhausted every time they need to try and be the acceptable persona, they start to avoid many things, as they can not bring up the energy to be who they feel they need to be for others.

            My zombie imagery was not utilised often, more so in the early days post disengagement when I was in pain and thought in my head that I was linked to him ( stupid I know) and before I read the blog.

            There was a specific day where I felt the most unimaginable pain in my core, like a void – he was in my head all day ( literally) this was about 2 weeks post disengagement. It was awful and in my head I was like “ I can feel him, what he feels, he is in pain, if he feels this I have to reach out to him, I have to check he is ok”.
            It took all of my rational mind to counteract these thoughts and I was still on the edge of reaching out because it was so intense.
            So I knew I had to try and trick my mind out of it, I decided that I needed to try and link into my automatic responses for survival instinct and fight or flight.

            Imagining him as a zombie was a way I could externalise his wounds by having them as very visable flesh wounds, reinforce his lack of care for me as he can not feel care for me, and also to engage my survival instinct by use of a visual threat to me to see obvious signs that he only had the capacity to hurt me / feed from my emotions.

            By imagining him in this way I was able to put myself in a position that I could see and feel his pain – as I could in real life, but that I could also clearly see his capacity to destroy me if I tried to stay and help him. So my survival instinct would kick into the rational mind from an emotional point also – by choosing myself over him, by choosing me in the knowledge that even if I tried to help him, I could not, the knowing that I could not even scratch the surface of what he would need. The leaving the room and closing the door to him was also symbolic of our relationship ending.

            So too choose me- reinforcement of my value for myself, and ability to self validate.
            It stopped me reaching out to him that day, and another two occasions. So not utilised often, just at times of extreme difficulty with use of rational mind alone. It was effective for me as I have not contacted him since his disengagement just before New Years.

            I have pondered upon an idea windstorm, and I was wondering If I may ask for your opinion in regards to this.

            My wounds were not caused by my childhood experiences with family. I was nurtured forming and continuing to have strong bonds with my parents and siblings. My only wounds were from peers and in relation to appearance- the shell. It was substantial daily bullying, multiple sources over approx 8 year period. So had a very damaging effect, which did impact relationships, choices and most of all my self esteem and how I presented to the world.

            As I am fat and ugly no one would want to be with me, no one would love me in a romantic way or want me in a sexual way. ( this was the belief / thought I was conditioned to believe)

            However I’m wondering if my nurturing upbringing was the key in my sense of self, it taught me to know my worth and value inside, my character, my core self being a good person. Essentially I still liked who I was as a person, I liked the inside even if I could not like the outside.

            I am wondering if this could be linked to why I challenged him, and he could not break down my sense of self, my sense of value and worth, was this why I didn’t chase and react the way he wanted? Was this why I failed so many tests. Was it due to my parents love and nurturing and creation of my own value?

            I clearly wanted him to like me, to want me, to like my appearance as these were my wounds, these were what I wanted validation for .. but I did not need validation for WHO I am.
            Do you think there is a merit in this link?
            It’s always individual though, as with many things, I was just wondering if it could be linked.

          4. Windstorm says:

            “I have known people who have developed personas as a safety behaviour in a way, but have stepped so far from the core / true self that they are exhausted every time they need to try and be the acceptable persona, they start to avoid many things, as they can not bring up the energy to be who they feel they need to be for others.”

            I don’t know if I do this or not. I don’t think I have at all stepped away from my true self, but interacting with other people does really drain me. I think it’s probably more from the type of empath I am though.

            I was never bullied at school, only by relatives. I can remember school bullies making fun of me for wearing glasses and calling me “four eyes”. I’d just look at them with no emotion and say, “ yes, I am. I guess that means I can see twice as well as you can since you only have two eyes.” Bullies tended to leave me alone, probably because they didn’t scare or bother me.

            I have always been convinced I am fat, ugly and undesirable- even back when I wasn’t. lol! But it was my family and husband who taught me that from the beginning. So my experience was very different from yours, but I do think you’re on to something about self-concept and challenging the narcs in your life.

            After I was in my 30’s with children of my own, my own home and career, I began to develop a much stronger self-concept. I began to see that I was a really good person in many ways and to no longer feel as embarrassed about myself. All my life I’d been told I could never take care of myself, but that was obviously false, since I had a good income and was successfully raising children.

            This is also when I began to stand up and assert myself and what I wanted from my narcs. I don’t think this was a coincidence. My new-found sense of self and of self-confidence gave me my ability to gain freedom from both my mother and husband.

          5. Tammy says:

            Hope this shows up in the right place. Been connecting some dots lately concerning magical thinking. I know it’s a childhood game of pretend, but as I was treated as a burden, the games of let’s pretend, it became a defence stronghold. One that took over my life. I still don’t know what the hell to even think about everything. It’s caused my thoughts to shift. I just hope I can achieve balance. Feeling sadness and back to not being able to listen to music again.

          6. MB says:

            It sounds like time for another consultation T. An HG injection to fight your infection.

          7. NarcAngel says:

            An endorsement there from our very own Busta Rhymes.

          8. Tammy says:

            Big time!!!

          9. Quasi says:

            Thank you windstorm,

            Your comments always make me think, and contemplate a situation from more angles then I have thought of in the first place .. I really appreciate you responding and engaging with me as I’m aware that this usually involves a lot of reading lol…

            I would imagine that for you the feeling drained is very much linked to being a contagion empath, and not the separation from the true self that others I know have felt.

            I’m now wondering if my childhood, lowered my resilience to what I would face with my peers, no one has made me feel like that before, so their words and actions were incredibly powerful, and had quite an impact.
            Whereas for you the bullies at school could not touch you with a barge pole with their words or actions, the did not scare or bother you. I can only imagine that this is because your resilience was higher due to other experiences of bullying you have advised on.

            I had my first child the day before I was 30, and I feel a commonality with what you have said as I have felt a higher sense of self and concept since I had children, I already had a good career established. My 30’s have definitely proved to be the years I have grown and developed most, and my self concept was definitely a part of how I managed my interaction with the narcissist I knew.

            I am now wondering if it is about time to stop wondering! that introspective thing is good to a point (although this is about perspective too), but these thoughts and questions like so many I have had are actually unanswerable.. I could be the way I am through many factors, experiences, the sensitivity I was born with, and just because I am..
            So sod It… I am what I am, no more questioning why and just be..
            Windstorm, thank you so much for everything, for what I have learnt from you, your support and the time you have taken to discuss these topics with me.

            I am known to be abit soppy but Our conversations have meant a lot to me, and I kind of wanted you to know that.

            Certain journeys in life leave different marks in the memory and soul. I have to say that finding narcsite, and even more substantially HG, has caused an etching into my soul memory, and has made an irrevocable impression upon me. An imprint that I would not want to remove but will admire, and will make me smile for the rest of my days …
            …Piping down now.. lol..

          10. Windstorm says:

            Oh, you are welcome, Quasi. I enjoy talking to you as well! I love thinking and analyzing and hearing other people’s opinions. It’s alwaus great to get different perspectives!

          11. Quasi says:

            I just wanted to add an amendment to the above comment.
            My thought process re- my upbringing enabling me to create a stable self worth / value, is only as stated.
            I know statements in text can be read in lots of ways and I was hoping that it would not be read as to imply that people without such an upbringing have not been able to develop a good sense of self /worth. As this is not what I mean, and certainly not true.
            I just thought of this link being important for my situation possibly.
            I would actually suggest that this upbringing made it easy for me to develop this.
            People who have developed this “in spite of” experiences in childhood that were different to mine is actually indicative of the great strength and spirit that they were born with, and makes them even more amazing.
            I just thought to elaborate on this as I don’t want to offend anyone, as always this is not something I would want my comments to cause.

          12. NarcAngel says:

            You’re entitled to your opinion whether it offends people or not. Even Colgate can only please 3 out of 5 dentists. I want to know what you really think, not just what you think wont offend the other 2 dentists.
            Why should they always get their own way?

          13. Quasi says:

            NarcAngel, you never fail to make me smile…. and often laugh out loud … you have also been a person ( probably unknowingly ) who has helped me to find myself again.. your very much included in my narcsite happy memories box… your unforgettable lady.. thank you for being you ! Qx

            Oh I have said what I think, quite often too much of what I think lol.. I just have an unfortunate tendency at times to add footnotes lol…

  15. Tammy says:

    I completely get it.ive been at least 98% devalued and discarded. There’s always that looming small amount of fear he’ll try to hoover me again in the future. At least 100 % currently, I’ve completely been discarded. I’m somewhere in between being gut wrenching sad about it, or ready to engage in a happy dance.

    1. Kathy Mor says:

      We are exactly on the same boat, Tammy.

  16. mh says:

    This one helps me understand so much of what went on. Thank you for sharing these insights.

    Your articles also helped me to realize that I had witnessed the tail end of someone else’s devaluation, and I’ve since joined her on his blocked list. It’s a peaceful place to be now. It might be a prolonged corrective devaluation but I’m doing my best to stay out of his spheres of influence.

  17. On My Journey says:

    There is something that gives me hope from that crazy shelved life.
    I know many of his ex IPSS for having researched them and found their profile etc. Many of them are in a relationship that seem normal now – one is getting married , another one has a very nice boyfriend etc I know social media do t tell the whole story – but it gives me hope that there are exes of him who have found someone and have a good life. Ow away from him and his shelving.

  18. Nina says:

    Hello HG,
    What does one off frequency mean?

    Also wouldn’t it be better for the SIPSS to go off and have a life instead of waiting around for texts/calls?

    Thank you, your writing explains the dynamic so well and how fuel works.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It means once, a one-off, not repeated or sustained.

      Of course, yes!

      1. Nina says:

        Does the Narc not lose respect for the SIPSS after the incessant texting/begging?

        By not texting first, does a Narc feel superior or more in control?

        I once sent him a present, a specialty food item that he had requested. He waited until I had texted him to tell me that he had received it, and that it was good. Not even a thank you. Nothing to acknowledge all the effort put forth.

        This was before I had figured him out. I was appalled at his lack of manners and couldn’t figure it out. Prior to this, his manners were impeccable. Knowing his family, his upbringing etc. his behaviour had seemed out of character.

        Is this a sense of entitlement? Thank you!!

        I so want to have a consult with you but I’m still a bit nervous!!!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          There is no respect to begin with Nina.


          Yes it is the sense of entitlement.

          Go ahead with a consultation, it will be well worthwhile.

          1. Pbw says:

            Any consult with HG is by far the best you will have to be insightful… helpful ..eye opening…

          2. MB says:

            So that’s why they don’t say thank you? Because they are entitled to receive a gift? So it’s expected and not a “thankable” act.

  19. Blondie says:

    Hi HG if the sipss had not contacted the narsissisist after the weekend at would that have been viewed by him… Thanks

    1. HG Tudor says:

      If preoccupied elsewhere, the narcissist would not be concerned. If the narcissist expected the SIPSS to keep trying and they stopped, this would wound.

  20. Maya says:

    This was awesome. Could you do more of these? If you would be so kind 😉

    1. HG Tudor says:


  21. Malea says:

    My mouth is literally hanging open in disbelief at how spot on this is….

    1. Kathy Mor says:

      Welcome to the club, Malea. This was me in the beginning of August when everything fell apart.
      My whole is described in this blog. From my personal relationships to my narc family

  22. DebbieWolf says:

    The narcissist started that ball rolling.. all that was said is I can’t wait to see you again and then he just didn’t answer. Irritated himself. he could have genuinely just said “me too”.
    All it did was instigate a lot of insecurity that caused her to be painted black in the end.
    I know the point is the narcissist wants to feel power but he just ended up getting irritated before the final outcome. yes in the end there was a climb down but he had become irritated before then.

    None of this is ideal obviously but the narcissist himself could have avoided irritation and painting one of his sources black and still maintained his supposed superiority.
    I understand him keeping her on a knife edge is deliberate but he caused himself annoyance.
    The long way to win isnt it.

    I’m probably missing the point…. the best thing all round for her is just to go to the rifle range aswell… perhaps she could forget about the narcissist when encountering the engaging firing range instructor. She has plenty of time on her hands. Why wait for supposed comfort crumbs when there are bountiful slices of alsorts of delicious alternatives knocking about.

    Let him smoke the “I’m busy” pipe.

    Fuck him. Or more obviously “don’t” bother.

    1. DebbieWolf says:

      Actually – sod the firing range instructor..thinking more about this…
      Better off doing her own thing like walking her lovely dogs through the riding through surf on a long empty beach..or anything by herself.. building up those inner rescources. We do not have to have these games in our lives that others instigate.

      Having true real relationships matter we know that ..but we don’t need these falacies in the meantime.

      Bide a while and be everything you admire.
      Step away from needing someone else so that you may feel happy and fulfilled.
      Then be ready for the surprising release you will feel when being free to decide without interference what is best for you and yours.

      Dont be shackled to anyone. Choose.
      Dont be afraid of getting it wrong again..still choose because you will always get to choose again. This time with learning behind you.

      Keep moving forward. Xx🐾

    2. Windstorm says:

      Well, he was a middle mid-ranger. Maybe he just wasnt smart enough to do any better.

      1. DebbieWolf says:

        Haha. Hello WS.🌹

        Absolutely right.
        My emotional irritation was rife when i read it at first..I was having a combative “so there” moment. 🤔😅
        Anyway.. all was calm and levelled off soon after.
        I suppose it was a telling off of the hypothetical narc .. he was a stand in this afternoon for 10 mins.
        Rather off my chest here in the hypothetical example than anywhere out here to give real fuel I guess.

        I’m sure my tongue has the imprint of my own teeth in it as I constantly bite my tongue! Haha.

        Ah. If only we could say what we want to say to them eh? But thankfully HG teaches us that it’s best to ignore.

        To be fair I like to do what HG advises me to do. He never leads me wrong.

  23. Chihuahuamum says:

    This scenerio has happened to me but my narc has never become aggressive and threatened it would be over. When ive been in this situation when hes not gotten back to me like he usually does i know its either bc hes busy with another source or hes giving a corrective devaluation of some sort. Sometimes i have no clue why and i do think even mood can trigger it. Its like a message being sent that hes busy too. Ive texted him that this hurts bc we usually are in contact thru the day and its like he doesnt miss me. I do see how my abandonment issues have come into play and how this isnt healthy. Still its a hard emotion to break when its engrained into you from your past.
    There has also been times weve been online communicating and i sense hes interacting with someone else as well. Usually delayed responses or forgetting something i told him minutes before. I think that could also be a devaluing mind game to pretend he didnt notice what i just told him.
    We really are just fuel and ego security blankets to them.
    I had to laugh at the rifle range 😂🤣😄 i think his wife knows more about whats going on than hes aware of lol

    1. Windstorm says:

      “Ego-security blankets”
      I love that! That’s why they really stay with us for years and years. They can always find more fuel elsewhere, but we’re their ego-security blankets. 😝

      And I picked up on that practice range, too. He needs to make careful note on just what his IP is willing to tolerate and what she won’t!

    2. Chihuahuamum says:

      Hi windstorm….its so true it is a form of security for their ego bc their ego cant stand on its own two feet. They need constant praise and validation. I dont say this in a critical way at all bc i myself have used my narc as a form of security so i can see where it stems from.
      People that are healthy and self reliant dont need to use and hurt others to survive in life.

  24. Pbw says:

    I swear I almost thought you were telling the story of me ….

  25. Omj says:

    Eveytime ai read this – I want to puke my life away.
    I have spent so many years in my life with different narcs shelved un shelved black white white black.

    1. Tammy says:

      Omj, puking right beside you.

  26. Yolo says:

    Midrange Narc…

  27. Tam says:

    HG, you just touched on something I’d forgotten about. I would text him and nothing for days or weeks. It makes me see I had horrible separaration anxiety and severe abandonment issues.
    It’s odd to read something, and then full on recognize it for what it is.
    Yes, it hurts, but thank you because I had no idea how deep those feelings where buried. And to heal, it all needs to come up and out.
    I can’t wait to read more about your life, and to see what revelations come up as you do so.

  28. Windstorm says:

    Wow, HG! This was incredibly informative! This give and take style really helps me understand a lot better! Thank you.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are most welcome.

  29. NarcAngel says:

    Haha. IPPS out at the rifle range while you rearrange the spice shelf. Never a dull moment at Tudor Manor.

    1. DebbieWolf says:

      Haha… I was just going to post about the IPPS being out at the rifle range too. Hahaha.

  30. Kim e says:

    “F” him !!!!!!

  31. Amanda Katz says:

    That is such a spot-on, textbook description of a scenario between me and the narc. It makes me physically ill when I see just how uncommon and unoriginal narcs are, which is really their greatest fear, isn’t it?

    1. amanda SNapchat says:

      great point.

Vent Your Spleen! (Please see the Rules in Formal Info)

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

Previous article

The Magnet Empath

Next article

Black Hole