The Three Strands of Empathy
The concept of empathy can be divided into three types. There are three identifiable strands.
First of all there is the idea of cognitive empathy whereby one can understand the point of view of another person. I am able to understand another person’s point of view but I will rarely accede to it, unless I see some ulterior gain to be obtained from expressing that I understand their point of view. Even where I explain I understand, I am still unlikely to accept it. The Lesser and the Mid-Range are unable to understand that person’s point of view because it will oppose their own, stand in the way of what they want to achieve and frustrate their aims owing to their differing perspective. They lack the cognitive function to address this. Of course, empathic individuals are experts at understanding another person’s point of view but they will go further than this. They will exhibit patience to allow that point of view to be articulated, they will ask questions to draw out this view and they will apply it to their own situation and experiences. Empathic individuals want to understand the other person’s point of view. They not only give it a platform to begin with, but they also allow it to be aired, expanded and applied. It is little wonder therefore that this cognitive empathy bleeds into the empathic traits of patience, needing to understand and needing to know the truth. Furthermore, having such cognitive empathy means that the empathic individual is far more susceptible to the word salad, circular conversations, lies and half-answers that our kind provide. The empathic individual endures these manipulations as he or she tries to wade through the quagmire in order to flex their cognitive empathy so that they understand the narcissist’s point of view. Of course, since our point of view operates from a completely distorted and different perspective, you have little hope of achieving it.
Secondly, there is also empathy concern whereby one is able to recognise the emotional state of another person, feel a need to address that emotional state and therefore exhibit the appropriate concern for the individual. In all three schools of narcissism, our capacity with regard to empathy concern is skewed. The Greater is always able to perform the recognition part of this but has never been created with the sense of needing to address it even though our increased cognitive function means we can work out, through observation and experience, what the appropriate concerned response should be. This means that we can recognise somebody is in distress, understand that they need help but feel no compulsion whatsoever to provide it. We will however, because we have two of the three parts of empathy concern, feign a concern based on our understanding, but only if we see it as serving our interests. This is why, during seduction especially or for the benefit of the façade during devaluation, we can appear that we are concerned that somebody is worried or upset. We do not feel any need to assist them, but we recognise our own need can be served by doing so.
The Lesser is able to recognise the emotional state of another person, feels no need to address it and is unable to exhibit the appropriate concern for the individual. As a consequence, even during seduction, the Lesser will present as blank-faced when dealing with certain emotional episodes and will often vacate him or herself from the situation. During devaluation, he will only see the fuel advantage from this emotional state and indeed rather than be supportive, since he feels no need to, he will just exploit it further.
The Mid-Ranger also recognises the emotional state, feels no need to address it and has a limited repertoire by way of fake concern. Thus in some instances he can pretend that he is concerned and in others he has no answer and will leave the victim to their woe and distress and has enough calculation to state he has somewhere urgent he must be and thus he escapes the demand for assistance and help made by the victim.
Unsurprisingly, the empathic individual has all three elements of this particular strand of empathy intact and in intense quantities. The empathic individual is able to recognise the emotional state of another with considerable ease, even if they are trying to mask it. They absolutely feel and recognise the need to do something when they see somebody else’s emotional reaction. This compulsion is almost irresistible for the empathic individual and they are also fully-acquainted with what they should do by way of response. They will share in the joy, congratulate when someone is happy through good news, console when someone is miserable and hold them when they are heart-broken. The empathic individual is no different with our kind and see our emotional response – albeit from a limited selection – feels the need to address it and also knows how to address it. Thus when we discharge our fury, our hatred, our envy and our antipathy, the empathic individual owing to this concern empathy is always galvanised into action, will rarely shirk the challenge and addresses the issue even at considerable cost to themselves.
Finally there comes the idea of the emotional contagion. This is a deep-seated and one may even regard it as a spiritual element of the empathic individual. This is not just about understanding a point of view or recognising an emotional need and response, this is about feeling the emotion just as somebody else does. Thus if a friend is upset over the death of a parent, the empathic individual is contaminated by this grief and experiences the same emotions as if they were grieving themselves. This not only means that they fountain with fuel which of course our kind will exploit but that they are powered into recognising the need and doing something about even more than would be afforded by the cognitive empathy and concern empathy. The emotional contagion exists in all empathic individuals but is more intense in certain people. Indeed, its intensity may even go beyond being proximate to the person experiencing the emotion. A highly-attuned individual with the emotional contagion will watch a television programme and where the main character is frightened,they will feel that fear also. They will read a moving newspaper article about the plight of an orphan and they will feel that despair as well. It is an immensely powerful part of empathy and causes the empathic individual to have to respond to it.
We have no such emotional contagion. It is completely absent and therefore we have nothing which might cause us to feel something so we act upon it. There is nothing there. The plight of the orphan is not felt by us and we are utterly unmoved. The fear of the heroine on television is regarded with annoyance since our primary source seems more concerned about that person than us. The only time that we regard this emotional contagion as any use is when it serves our purposes when the empathic individual fountains with fuel because of it and directs their empathic traits towards us. We do not have this contagion and we do not feel anything in the way that you would do.
78 thoughts on “The Three Strands of Empathy”
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Yeah that last component you spoke of….the feeling it as if we were experiencing it! That can be sooooo intense that I sometimes have to remove myself from the situation or person so that I can get a handle on myself….and it’s funny the last boyfriend I had or shall I say manfriend lol anyways we watched movies a lot together and I would get like all emotional and like as if I was in the movie and he would say…:okay okay calm down shhhhh ok settle down it’s just a movie and he would just look at me so funny as if like what is wrong with you lol …..hahahahaha….sometimes I think it amused him more then the actual movie. I always feel embarrassment too when I get like that which is every time. I’m sure it can be annoying but my son has actually laughed at me when we are watching movies together and he’s like mom….it’s just a movie…and I have actually gotten so mad before at a family member who talked me into watching a movie and I told her I do NOT watch tear jerkers and she promised me it wasn’t and that turned out to be a lie and I got all sucked in and was all emotional and I got up from the movie super angry at her for lying like that to me and I was actually like mad lol …..anyways! It’s embarrassing and can be even painful at times and can also over burden and steel peace it’s not always fun and sometimes I wish I didn’t have it. I also must be very protective over myself to not over expose myself to things that will give me a great deal of grief. And I know this sounds weird and please nobody think I am gothic or sick….but all that being said….I can walk through a cemetery and feel 100% peace….in fact it’s more peaceful then some churches I have been too. I have rarely found peace in a church however…their are more evil people in a church then one can imagine. I wish that weren’t true but unfortunately there are fakers there too. Yeah I know the cemetery is kinda random and off subject but it’s a weird thing to me that I feel so much peace when walking through one or passing by one during the daylight lol that is. Anyways
Tonya, you are not “gothic or sick”. Many of us can relate to your experiences. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been laughed at for crying during a movie. They don’t mean to hurt my feelings, they just don’t get it and I guess it seems silly to them.
MB
And a lot of the time they do mean to hurt your feelings. Even non-narcs will laugh at you and ridicule you to make themselves feel superior. I have no sympathy for anyone who ridicules another.
Windstorm
I don’t think I ever took it as ridicule…although I am sure there are some that do ridicule others for that. But the ex man friend I recently had …him telling me like a child ….okayyyyy okayyyy it’s just a movie settle down. I wanted to slap him and say…do not tell me what to do and do not tell me when to settle down. It was quite annoying anytime I showed strong emotion the guy always was saying…okayyyyy okayyyy like that’s enough. Or like when I was going on about something with emotional or very expressive….he would do that and to be honest that just plain pissed me off. I’m thinking hey this is my mind and my words and the can express them as I wish. I’m not sure if he was a narcissist or not. Thing he was a lot younger then me. But he was always trying to tell me how to behave and act and talk and blah blah blah….I was thinking hey you are the one that is younger please !
MB
Awe thank you for your reply. You are sweet MB. 😊
Tonya
I would rather walk through a cemetery then go to church, so you are not alone.
I know fake even in movies or books, yet the sympathic side of me has and will always react, if it is real my reactions are intense.
Twighlight
Yes I can totally relate and thank you for your comment it’s good to have company and not feel so odd ball lol.
Narc Angel
Yep and that’s a good point! Amongst many other things. The silence is much better…it speaks to me much louder. There’s nothing worse then a scandalous wretch pretending to be holy. Yeah they are holy alright….holes all through their souls.
Tonya
There is a peaceful serenity in cemeteries.
Tonya
You are not the only one that finds more peace in a cemetery then a church, unless it is a burial ground of a tragic event then I don’t find much peace.
Twilight
Yeah and they dont pass around the plate in a cemetary lol.
Narc Angel
Ah yes the plate of tithe and offerings, and handth the soul over to our religious rules and regulations.
HG my first clue of this happening. A Yes??? My mom got really sick and we had 911 take her to the hospital. My narc. that night text me. I told him what happened. He said “so sorry baby” I asked him to call me the next day to check on me please, thank you. I DID NOT GET A TEXT TO me, telling him I need him to check on me. When I finally got a hold of him, I was upset, I said M or asshole why didn’t you check on me and to see how my mom was doing. HE said ? Because there was nothing I can do, I said Just checking on me, how are things, would be nice to show you cared. BUT he didn’t care or have empathy of my distress did he HG. I made a request. He looked at it as a demand of him having to give to me, and no fuel for him that day, of it being all about him. So I am sure he was more busy with other supply that day, and punishing me in some manor. HG I wish you would consider a Ted X Talk 🙁
A TED Talk would be most effective coming from me.
That would be super awesome HG. Shall the Tudorites start a petition?
And then finally the man behind the voice is revealed!
Healing Victim,
I’m so sorry you went through this. The fact that you would even feel like you had to ask your boyfriend to call you to check on you, that’s fucked up. And him not even texting you AFTER you requested it? Beyond hopeless. This fuckhead.
I can relate a bit when my mom’s dog died a few months ago, and she was devastated. I went to the vet to be with her and to say goodbye because I loved her dog too. My hub stayed home, which is fine, but he never even once called or texted my mom to say he’s sorry about her dog or sad about her. He didn’t even mention it in person. I think it hurt her feelings, so I finally told my hub that my mom would like to hear from him, and his response was “Why? The dog is gone. It’s not like I can do anything.” They are seriously clueless.
Mary
I truly believe that being a contagion and feeling other emotions makes me a better person than I would be otherwise. I would not trade this trait away.
But, oh my God if I could get rid of feeling all the emotions of people in movies, books and tv!! This is so stressful and limiting! It never matters that I know these are fictional characters. I can’t help but think things like, “What if this has happened or may happen to someone somewhere? How will they feel?” And then I feel that pain.
That’s what’s so horrible to being a contagion. I don’t just feel other people’s real pain!when they do (although I do feel that), I feel the pain people may feel in the future or have felt in the past.
Yes. All of this hits home.
Windstorm
But on the other hand you can also feel the joy and happiness of the people in those movies and books? Did you know this as a child then, and only seek out books that you thought would have a favourable outcome? Did you turn to books in this way to counter your mothers cruelty?
NarcAngel
Yes, it does work that way. Unfortunately living out on a farm, books were very limited as a child. I only had a small handful and they all had a lot of angst in them (I have been told most people like that in books n movies for interest).
But that’s probably why I turned to science. I spent a lot of time reading encyclopedias, too. I turned my focus onto nature and animals. One of my favorite books growing up was Field Guide to Rocks and Minerals. 😄
WS, “One of my favorite books growing up was Field Guide to Rocks and Minerals.” Speaks volumes!
MB
Ha, ha! Yes that’s was my favorite book until I was about 11! My father bought me a geologist’s hammer so I could collect samples.
Windstorm
Maybe the geologists hammer wasnt to collect samples. Maybe he was weaponizing you against your mother (and for him).
Muah hahaha
Ok that was a dark joke but he WAS a narc right?
NarcAngel
Yes, he was a narc. I thought maybe you’d make a joke about the type of gifts a cerebral narc gives his daughter. 😉
He got me the book, too. 😊
Hi Windstorm. Would you mind writing more about you feeling the past and future pain of others? Do you feel such pain whenever you talk to them or just by tuning in to them without really knowing them? I am always curious about such experiences.
Lou,
I will try to answer your question. All I have to do to feel pain for someone is to think about them being in a hurtful situation. In many ways, it is more hurtful to me to imagine future pain than to witness someone enduring pain in front of me. Probably because if I’m with someone who is in some sort of pain, I can help and my focus is on doing things to make the situation better.
For instance, I have two grandchildren starting kindergarten this year. When I think about them beginning full day school next week, I feel the excitement, wonder and curiosity that they will feel, but I also feel a sympathetic pain for the fear, confusion, homesickness, etc. Whatever circumstances I imagine them in, I feel the emotions that I would expect them to experience.
This is much stronger if I have been in the same situation myself or (like with my grandchildren) I have witnessed their reaction to many situations in the past. But even with entirely fictional characters (like in a movie) having something happen to them that I have never experienced (like being hit by a car), I will feel tremendous pain by automatically connecting what is happening to them to things that I have experienced that are related.
And it’s very detailed. I might think about having been hit hard and knocked down on asphalt in a parking lot. How whatever hit me made deep indentations in my skin that later bruised, swelled and hurt for many days. How scraped skin on my arms and legs felt at the time and later. I can smell scents, taste things, remember all the sensory details of the going to/being previously in the hospital – even things like accompanying boredom, loneliness and regret. In short, my sympathetic pain is as much like reality as my brain and prior experience can make it. The more detailed the visual/auditory images in the film, the sharper my pain will be.
If I’m actually with someone or talking to them on the phone, then that’s a very different experience. Then I pick up directly what emotions they are feeling and respond to them accordingly. For instance I might have imagined an experience of fear and pain for them, but when I see them actually in the situation and they are enjoying it, then that is all wiped away and I pick up on their authentic feelings.
Does this answer your question?
Windstorm, yes, your reply does answer my question. Thanks a lot
I totally understand why you feel pain and other emotions while watching a film. I also know it is fiction, but that does not stop me from imagining how that would feel in real life and from feeling the emotion while watching the film. I can also put myself in someone’s shoes easily. I think I always did it in opposition to the behavior of the narcs O grew up with. Or maybe I was born like that, who knows?
Even when I am about to crush an insect, I just imagine how it would feel like if a giant crushed me and left me on the floor reduced to a bone and organ purée. But that does not stop me from crushing some insects now and then 😉
Thanks again for your explanation, Windstorm.
You’re welcome, Lou
Windstorm, I forgot to say that, although I can put myself in someone else’s shoes easily and understand that person (empathy), I am not a Contagion. I do not feel that much.
Also, your comment reminded me of my first day in Kindergarten. I remember very clearly how I was at the entrance of the school crying and begging my Darth mother not to leave me with the teacher, who was holding my hand. Wow, if I had known then that my beloved mother was a narc, I think I would have asked the teacher to adopt me, pleeaasee. 😉
Windstorm, yes, my ex narc is a vain, sportive, good smelling super cerebral.
Lou,
One thing I would add. People don’t uunderstand why I would feel pain for a made-up situation like an actor in a film. I know the actor never was in pain, of course. What causes my pain is thinking that that situation probably has happened and will happen to an actual person somewhere and they will experience that pain. My sympathetic pain is for all those real people who have had, are, or will have to endure it.
That’s why I prefer fantasy and science fiction. If a wizard shoots a dragon out of the sky with a lightning bolt, I feel no pain from that. I can view that as just entertainment. Now if I ever met an actual dragon….
Windstorm
“Now if I ever met an actual dragon”
Such an interesting and serious conversation you and Lou were having and then that line made me burst out laughing.
Hi Lou and Windstorm – I found your discussion very interesting, just haven’t had the focus to follow-up until now. Hope you don’t mind me butting in…
Windstorm – honestly, I chuckled a bit when I read about your favourite book as a child. And then I felt a bit sad thinking that was the only kind of book you had access to at that age? I think children should always have access to books – of all kinds.
When I think back now, about my own childhood, that books were my safe haven. I exhausted certain sections of the children’s book area in my public library when younger…
Also, in reading this thread on contagion empathy – I’m struck how I resonate with much of the experience of others’ but have never been able to figure why I feel as I do.
Just like along with learning here what a narcissist truely is – I’ve had to learn what an empath is. And I never really have thought much about the “way” I feel things – assuming it was similar to the experience of others.
Movies and books both move me emotionally – so much so that certain detailed scenes or descriptions stay with me – like for years.
I also like SF&F books Windstorm – but I like such books where the character development is very thorough and you feel like you “know” the character and resonate with him or her. Although this use to cause problems for me as a child – as I would “care” so much for a book character that I could not put the book down until I read through to the end to see how the conflict was resolved. And the emotional experience of the character (if described well) would cause me to feel, very deeply (mostly painful emotions) emotions that I could not ‘shake’ very easily.
I just assumed this experience was evident of the writing being very good combined with my own very vivid imagination – I’ve never really considered the emotional component of this…until reading this current discussion.
Even now, post-narc, if I’m feeling very strong negative emotions (and I don’t feel like I can resolve them through my usual route of journaling etc.) I seek out movies that trump those particular feelings.
For example, more recently, when I was feeling much anger and a sense of injustice (as a result of my narc’s behaviour) the only thing I could think of that could top that was the Hunger Games trilogy. So I watched all three movies and – even though I find those movies upsetting – it was quite cathartic and helped resolve much of my excess of emotion.
And I personally didn’t have to fire off a bow and arrow at anyone…however satisfying that may have been.
WhoCares
Don’t feel sorry for me with few books growing up. My house had more books than anywhere I knew. We had a built in bookcase, which was a marvel to all who visited and agreed that if anyone would have such an astounding thing it would be my father. His interest was history and literature- especially poetry. Not my thing, but I read them anyway. I had my own copy of the complete works of Shakespeare, Sherlock Holmes and the short stories of Mark Twain (my favorite author) and two different encyclopedias. True there were no children’s books, but none of my friends had any either and I never knew they existed until I was grown.
I like books in a series with the same characters a lot like you said, I like to get invested in the same characters, but also I like to have a good idea of what’s coming up. I just read a 26 book series about a ridiculous, narcissistic witch/private detective – just because there were 26 books and they were on kindle unlimited! Lol!
I laughed when you said you’d have to read quickly to see how books ended. I always read the first few pages, then the last few pages, then skip thru the middle a bit before settling down to read the book thru. I won’t read anything if I don’t know how it ends first. Same for watching movies. I either read the book for them first or the synopsis on google. I never want to be blindsided by extremely emotional scenes I didn’t know were coming.
I avoid all books/movies that are really emotional. I remember when the Hunger Games came out, we had a program where every teacher in the school read aloud to their homebase class every day. My class begged and begged me to read the Hunger Games. I ended up recording it at home, where I could stop when I needed to and playing it back for them. That was so painful.
You mentioned your vivid imagination. Obviously mine is as well. When I read a book, I see it all happening in my mind just like I was watching a movie. If they describe smells, I smell them, too. I found it astounding when I learned my exhusband is not like that. He sees no pictures in his mind when he reads. They are just words to him that he thinks about. My father never saw pictures either. I wonder if that’s a narc thing? Or maybe seeing it all like a movie is an empath thing?
WS and WC, I found The Hunger Games disturbing as well.
HG, do you form images in your mind while reading?
I do.
HG
Well that’s a mark against my hypothesis!
If you would, “Do you see the entire novel in your mind just like if you were watching a movie? Or do you see some images more like pictures? Thank you very much for taking the time to think about it.
Images.
Thank you very much for responding, HG. It’s always great to get new data for an hypothesis!
Congrats on passing 11 million, too. 🎉
Thank you.
I would’ve been shocked if you didn’t. I don’t think having an imagination (or not) is related to NPD. More related to intelligence.
MB
I don’t see it as a lack of imagination. I see it more as a different way of thinking or perceiving. Both my exhusband and father were very intelligent men with good imaginations.
I wanted to add, the images in your mind are evident In the lucidity of your writing, Sir. I feel privileged that you share it with me.
Windstorm – I’m glad you had more than books on rocks in your household – and a home library at that! (I’m still a little bit sad that you didn’t have children’s books when young – I adore children’s books, especially if they are both cleverly written and are beautifully illustrated. I collected certain ones, for years, as an adult.
Although, I do appreciate Sherlock Holmes (my dad loved Sherlock Holmes!) and Shakespeare – although *seeing* Shakespearean performances – not reading them (I detested studying Shakespeare’s plays in English class however, bring on a performance anyday!)
Re: emotional books – I don’t avoid them (or search through – don’t want the plot spoiled) because I like the character development that usually comes with such books. But, I agree, I also get blindsided by very emotional scenes where I can’t continue reading or I get so obsessed that, yeah, I have to read through until the conflict is resolved – or it can derail my whole focus in real life by caring too much for the characters in the books. In fact, I remember having to be careful *not* to get too deep into books at times (this was pre-narc; I could hardly read a thing during the stress of devaluation.)
The way you talk about reading books and seeing it as a movie is very specific I think…I have a vivid imagination (for emotions and such) but if a book has toooo much detail (as in physical description of the surroundings and many, many character names) my brain kind of glosses over all of that. For example, I like Tolkien but it took me twice to get through Lord of Rings for all the descriptive detail…but give me an descriptive emotional landscape and I’m like a moth to a flame…
P.S. That was very generous of you to indulge your students with the Hunger Games. I bet they loved you for it – teachers are the best!
WhoCares
I never longed for children’s books. My mother had a copy of mother Goose nursery rhymes she would read me at bedtime when I was very small (I wasn’t allowed to touch the book). Those things often scared me to death! I can remember having nightmares about Humpty Dumpty for weeks. And she’d sing me that gory lullaby about the baby stuck in the tree in its cradle, then the limb breaks and it crashes to the ground – some of my earliest memories are being frightened for that baby!
We seem to be different in our love of detail in books. I love long detailed physical descriptions of the settings so I can better picture where things take place. Don’t care much for descriptions of people’s emotions unless they are happy ones.
Enjoy sharing experiences with you. ❤️
Windstorm – I’ve been thinking of your comment about the nursery rhyme ‘Humpty Dumpty’ giving you nightmares. For one, it really does reveal the depth of what you “feel” for others…two, I’ve never really thought of nursery rhymes as scary for children…although, from a certain perspective they definitely can be viewed as disturbing…
You also made me remember that in the house that I, mainly, grew up in we had a very small bookcase in the hallway that housed 3 collections of books. One was a set of nursery rhymes, poems, and short stories for children. The second was a collection of fairytales, fables and myths. And the third was a set of encyclopedias.
I made use of them all – but I loved the nursery rhyme and fairytale books best. (These were closer to the original versions and not the Disney-ized retellings.) And I have always gravitated towards faery tales, fables & myths.
As a child I loved them (that was one section of the public library that I exhausted). As an adult, I recognize that there are cultural overlays, but have always felt that such tales reveal a ‘truth’ about human nature.
I have also been enjoying our exchanges, very much. 🙂
Hi Who Cares! Of course I do not mind you butting in this discussion. I actually always expect other people to do it and share. Always interesting to read about other experiences.
Windstorm, that is a very interesting question you are asking at the end of your comment. I also see it all happening in my mind, like a film, whenever I am reading a fiction, and assumed everybody did.
HG, do you have images in your mind when you read a book?
I thought you didn’t!! ? Form images.
Ava101
We’re you asking me this? Unless I am alone in contemplation, my mind is a constant stream of images, often playing out like watching a movie. For the most part I think entirely in pictures. I’m a highly visual learner. In order to understand anything I have to picture it in my mind. Words mean nothing to me if I can’t form them into a picture.
When I was at university in a lecture, I had to write copious notes, then either form pictures in my mind from them (or if that wasn’t possible) I’d write them in colored shapes and memorize the picture they made, then be able to recall it to answer exam questions. lol! My mind is nothing but pictures!
No, Windstorm, I meant HG.
But very interesting. I am totally like you. I see everything in front my inner eye and make pictures, also memorize stuff through pictures.
I really think that it’s a trait of our kind. In work I’ve noticed several times that especially when talking to people who are more analytical, or like programmers / software developers, that they seem to speak a different language than me, as I see every idea immediately in front of my eyes and explain everything in a picture codes way – and people really don’t.
I thought you didn’t, HG!!
“by automatically connecting what is happening to them to things that I have experienced that are related”
That’s very interesting. I used to do the same until I decided that it is impossible for me to know exactly how someone else feels as their reaction to and feelings in a certain situation may be completely different to my own or my imagined one.
In general, after my experience with the narc, I have turned from feeling more towards doing – if someone is sad, I don’t emotionally engage in their sadness, I do what I can to help, be it allow them to talk or try to lighten their mood etc. It’s incredibly freeing but also strange at the same time. I occasionally feel like an automaton, probably because I’m still used to my previous over-involved mindset and this is often just weird. But so incredibly freeing, too.
WS, Excellent description of how contagion feels! Nicely done 😊
Thank you, Leanne
Leanne
Are you a Contagion?
By the way, my ex narc is a geologist and I always made fun of him saying “no wonder you do not see how this hurts my feelings; you love and studied rocks!”
Lou
Well I don’t know what it means about me, but I have always loved rocks! Naturally occurring crystals are my main love, so rocks because they are composed of crystals.
Even the ugliest rock will reveal beauty when looked at closely enough. They are dependable. They are useful. They are what they appear to be. They are predictable. They simply exist making no demands. One of the things that has always drawn me to rocks is their extreme age. They endure like nothing else on earth and even when being destroyed, they remain both beautiful and useful.
As I sit here and think about it, they are rather the opposite of narcissists in many ways. Growing up in chaos and confusion, seeing and understanding the beauty and endurance of rocks was a balm to my soul and provided me with a sort of strength of my own.
Windstorm,I really did not mean anything by pointing out that my narc also liked rocks/ is a geologist! Your comment just reminded me of how I used to think with some humor he did not get my feelings because he was the rock type. That was before I knew he had NPD.
Actually, I can relate to what you just explained above. Rocks are peaceful and yet they can reveal a lot (about our Earth). And, as you say, they are in many ways the opposite of narcissists.
Lou
Oh, I knew it was a joke, but it got me thinking. I think probably a lot of scientists arent that good at dealing with emotions. I can see geology attracting cerebral narcs because rocks and formations don’t require any empathy. So you probably were onto something about your narc. He may have preferred rocks because they made more sense to him!
Windstorm
It got me thinking too. How do rocks get their rocks off? How do they feel about being stonewalled? Does it hurt when they get a fissure in their crevice? Be a gem and stop me, this fossil has to get to bed.
😝😝😝
Omg, said the exact same to my husband about rocks, yes geologist . Funny. I saw I think another comment thread about not being willing to watch overly intense films, etc.. and I won’t.
I read tons and tons of books growing up. Too ADD now.
Windstorm
Yes I do that too….the what if’s even when I know it’s fake. I think this could and has happened before to somebody. Lol sorry I know it’s not funny it just makes me laugh at myself sometimes being so serious but I just can’t help it. I too try hard to avoid it and as I said I stay farrrrr away from tear jerkers…..I think to myself why do people watch movies that make them sad and cry. However I am able to watch psycho movies with ease not sure why! I mean I seem to cope so much better with the disturbed emotion then I do sadness and gloom. I hate sad endings!!! But I know that being said it is odd how I can be fascinated with thrillers and horror. Go figure.
The thing is I react stronger to bad things, than I do good things. Baby news, or even a wedding, does not bother me that much. I can feel others are happy for the occasion. But if someone is suffering, or any type of injustice, abuse, etc that’s where I go into super in-tune mode. Am like it even with animals too especially pets. I respond more to sad things than happy. Even with music, I respond more to minor keys than major. That’s why I like a lot of Chopin and Rachmaninoff.
Tigerschelle
I like minor music best, too. 😊
Although I feel happiness and sadness equally. It is easy to over look the happy feelings that I feel, though, because they just make me feel better. Sadness and pain have a greater impact on me because they are negative and hurtful. I get upset thinking about whoever it is having to deal with them. I don’t get upset when I see someone dealing with happiness.
So while I feel them both equally, the negative feelings are painful, so are harder to deal with and I try to avoid them, if possible. But I spend a large part of my time floating along on the happiness I feel around me. I’ve learned to channel it and broadcast it back out to others.
Windstorm thanks for your comments…. I enjoy reading them.
Yes, I agree the painful ones are harder to deal with.
I am trying harder with the happiness ones. I am finding or have found that when I feel true happiness, joy, it overwhelms my senses to such an extent that I often end up feeling pain aswell. It’s very strange. If I feel too much love for instance, I just cry. And sometimes there is a block. It’s like my system cannot possibly deal with just how much love there is. It’s overwhelming!!!
I know pain best of all. But I do love to try and make people happy around me. I love to make people feel better, and I love fixing/helping if I can. To help others, is one of the most satisfying feelings in this world. There IS more happiness in giving than in receiving and there always will be.
What most people need to learn in life is how to love people and use things instead of using people and loving things.
Even narcs, they may not be able to love people, but they do need them. It is their strongest drug. They will always need their next fix. But they don’t appreciate the actual person it comes from. They don’t “see” that individual at all. Anyone that sees you as an object, and uses you as such, has missed the whole purpose of life itself.
Tigerschelle
I know what you mean about too much happiness being overwhelming. My solution for that is to float along on my happiness cloud and radiate back extra happiness to people around me. That way I don’t get overwhelmed.
I was “to sensitive,” a “crazy bitch!” a “fucking cunt” and Narcmom’s fave “bipolar.” I was surely to blame for the dysfunction…the fights, repeated bouts of silence, the stitches, and the bruises. I. Wore. Guilt.
Last March, I escaped a seemingly sweet MR who’s stranger mode rattled me. A FB article led me to Empathic Supernova and I’ll never forget hearing… “The Super Empath will use these unleashed narcissistic traits for good. This means that they will fight back against our kind and remain in the relationship….”
I broke down crying for myself. I had endured the inconceivable with strength striking many blows along the way. Needing to know…HG’s voice was my new obsession. Words don’t do this experience justice. My life had begun.
As far as the emotional contagion…I feel everything that’s going on. If I’m lied to my gut tells me. If you are grieving then so am I. If I watch a movie or ice skating and someone takes an extreme fall, my whole body reacts. I can feel the impact and splintering in my bones. Narcissists poked fun when I listened to music clearly moved and covered with goosebumps. “You are to emotional!” I wouldn’t have it any other way. Go crawl under the bed where you belong monster.
You goooo Jess, Yes as our Super Nova came out, My narc. wishes he never met me. If I could not break him, I irritated him. I would fill up his voice mail with the Song ” Who let the dogs out….lol” AS no other could leave a voice message. Anyways, He had 3 good years of me and I had help an the last year was torture. Of a fight with the devil. Oh why why can’t we be warned and decided if we want this being in our life. Monsters under our bed Voices in our head. M & M the rappers song.
The best to you
Being!!! Hahahaha!
Ohhhh Jess. I feel your pain.
Such brutality from the one person who should be fiercely protective of you.
Abuse from a girl’s mother has such deeply damaging effects, doesn’t it? I’m only realising the extent of it now.
My Dad recently told me “I thought you were bipolar for the longest time”. I just looked at him incredulously. There’s no evidence of bipolar, but there is evidence of a person trying to survive an abusive relationship, warping herself to becoming less of a target. Trying to deflect the jealousy, the spite, the rage, the humiliation, the incest, the constant unwinnable, toxic competition. The endless cycles of triangulation. The inability to discuss grievances as that would result in her being attacked. Hearing the narc grenade “I don’t know why I ever had children!” launched to shut down any attempt at conflict resolution.
As the eldest daughter of N-mother, I had my “no” beaten and crushed out of me, was told what to wear, what I think, & was not allowed to have healthy boundaries. I was her wind-up toy that she would wind up and push out to perform to make her look good. After any social occasion I was criticised for not talking to so-and -so, or not talking to them soon enough. She told me what my personality was, because she needed a clone. She told me who to date, and constantly pressured me for blonde grandchildren. The rages and silent treatment I endured because I wouldn’t persist with online dating….
Ugh! Here comes that familiar feeling of chest tightness I always had from being smothered.
I have only just this month said outloud to my psychologist that I am more myself now than I ever was when she was alive. She passed away from breast/liver cancer in 2011. I have learned to breathe now. I would have always lived in her shadow. She had to go so that I could live my life, as my real self. I feel guilty for saying this.
A girl should be the leading lady in her own life. She should never be the understudy or a support cast member.
This is not possible with a N-mother.
Caroline
Dont feel guilt. She got what she wanted while she was here and felt none for taking your life from you. Breathe deep and live your life like you were meant to before she robbed you of it.
Hugs Caroline ❤️
“I have only just this month said outloud to my psychologist that I am more myself now than I ever was when she was alive.”
My therapist asked me what I would feel if my mother died and I said “free”. I had this irrational fear of my mother dying when I was a child and I would then fantasise about her dying so I could ‘mentally prepare’ myself for such an event. I figured out in therapy that I had found a way to fantasise about her dying without feeling guilty about it as a child, and it helped me cope with the feeling of being oppressed by her. Our psyche does funny things sometimes… but it always does it for our own good.
There is no right or wrong about feeling, Caroline. You feel how you feel. All these feelings are there for a reason – you didn’t decide to feel free and yourself after your mohter died out of malice or spite. It’s your genuine and perfectly reasonable reaction to her behaviour towards you.
Caroline,
I was glad when my mother died, and while I grieved for my father’s pain, I was relieved when he died as well (They we’re both narcs). I’ve always thought it was natural to feel relief and even happiness when a parental narcissist dies. While a part of you will always love them, you’ve seen them do so much harm – especially to you – and it’s just a happy relief to know an abuser is gone and will never hurt anyone else.
Whenever an abusive situation I’ve been in ends, I automatically think the words of Martin Luther King, Jr, “Free at last. Free at last. Praise God almighty, I’m free at last.” I think being able to say this to yourself is healthy. Even if you’re thinking it silently to yourself as you sit solemnly at a funeral.
This contagion strand (sounds like a disease), is definitely without a doubt me. I can feel a person’s feelings/emotions even when they are not proximate, if I know them fairly well, even online. I feel everything. I can walk into a room and feel the atmosphere and the moods people are in. This is how I gauge my safety a lot of the time. Consider yourself lucky in some respects HG, that you only have 2 parts of these empathy strands. When you have all of them and intensely, you are literally like a walking sponge, and you find it almost impossible to fight not being able to do something. Not wanting to help because it is the most natural instinct for ones like myself to do.
For instance, I can watch from a distance a little girl and her daddy trying to explain something to her, and somehow tune in to what the little girl is feeling, just by the expressions on her face and body language, aswell as the her father through the same facial and body expressions.
This can be useful at times. As you automatically know how each of your family members or friends are feeling. You can even tell when they are trying to mask or hide it as you say. My friends always say, they can never hide being upset around me, or anything else. I just pick it up.
I’ve always been like this ever since I was young.
But as it is said: “It is a great blessing and a curse to feel everything!”
I don’t stop feeling…. it is how I assess everyone and everything around me. Even online….though it’s harder online, but it has its difficulties online. If I met you HG, I could more than likely see your inner emptiness although you keep it well and truly hidden. That would not stop me from detecting it. I can’t explain how I can do this, but I can. (Not asking to meet you btw).