The Narcissistic Icicles – No. 8


51 thoughts on “The Narcissistic Icicles – No. 8

  1. Bubbles🍾 says:

    Dear Mr Tudor,
    I remember when I was involved in a car accident at 20, this bloke ran a red light and hit me … I ended up in hospital with concussion and a few broken limbs and my car a write off
    I couldn’t be released without a relative …. so I rang mummy dearest.
    The look on her face of sheer anger as she walked into the hospital room and said “how dare you take me away from work” …
    luv you too mum

    Luv Bubbles xx

  2. foolme1time says:

    Kiki, hard logic girl! Stay on the path your following. The emotional thinking we all have really sucks sometimes! You can do this! 🌻

  3. Kiki says:

    Ok , my prediction rang true this time thanks to HG.
    Silent treatment ended today with an email , nothing about the fact I replied three weeks ago and it took this long for a response.This time I predicted a longer silence it was by a week.
    Now I’m getting the old emotional thinking doubts again , is he really a narc .Of course he is my logic says unless he lost all his fingers , was trapped in a cave , or was orbiting mars .
    He saw your message and choose to ignore it for weeks ,Hardly flattering is it yet the stupid emotional thinking still nags and prods.
    Cold hard logic Instead
    I didn’t get a reply for 3 weeks even world leaders aren’t that busy.
    He isn’t thinking about me prob a bit perplexed at why I didn’t react.
    Testing am I still on the hook , for fuel and his ego .
    As soon as I respond I’m ignored again.
    Or am I wrong here and is just being friendly here goes my emotions ahhh it’s such a battle .

    1. Bubbles🍾 says:

      Dear dear Kiki,
      He enjoys fishing sweet heart and you’re his bait hook line and sinker
      I’d swim away as fast as I could … choppy waters out there, that bait’s poisonous my lovely
      Beware of the shark 🦈
      Warmest wishes
      Luv Bubbles xx

    2. Quasi says:

      Hi Kiki,

      If he is a Narcissist and this has been confirmed by HG, then all of what you said is spot on, and he is absolutely testing to see if your still responsive to him.

      I wouldn’t dismiss your emotions completely in relation to how YOU feel as you are still processing. Maybe just write them down release them abit for the minute. However the emotional responses to HIM and what he does need to be reasoned with and talked down by your logic at the moment as it is sounds early on for you. You are right that logic needs to be your guide at this stage 100%. Has he disengaged ? Or you escaped ? When people speak of having silent treatments now I assume they are still in the relationship or they are on the shelf as an ipss and perceive it as a silent treatment. If your still in it I hope you find a way out soon…. I wouldn’t respond / react in either way.

      1. Mercy says:

        Kiki, if this guy is truly a narc he is never going to go away completely ( untill death says hg). So with that knowledge you have an advantage here .Don’t respond until you’re positive that you are thinking logically. You have time to ponder this situation and decide what is best for you. Maybe when you figure that out the desire to respond won’t be so strong.

        All I’m saying is that you have the upper hand in this case. Don’t give it away. You won’t loose him forever by not responding. Sadly that is why we bend so much to their ways .It’s from fear of them leaving forever.

      2. Insatiable Learner says:

        Mercy, sorry for jumping in but I wanted to chime in on what you wrote here, “Kiki, if this guy is truly a narc he is never going to go away completely ( untill death says hg).” This is not accurate. You can have a true narc who will go away. Absolute statements like this can be detrimental to those who are still in doubt whether they were entangled with a narc. If they do not hear from the narc, they think maybe this guy is not a narc. I have seen several people struggle with this on here.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          There is always a risk of a hoover from a narcissist. We never completely go away.

      3. Mercy says:


        I guess I should not make absolute statements. In my case I know he will never actually go away as long as I’m willing to dish out the fuel. BUT that does not mean it will be a normal loving relationship. It will be the the silent treatments, the cheating, chiseling at my self confidence. It’ll be the waiting for the email, checking his Facebook to see if he’s active. It’ll be me grovelling to get a reaction or the upper hand. It’ll be me ignoring him when I have the upper hand then kicking myself when I fail to play his game as well as he does. A narc may never truly go away but it doesn’t matter if you’re primary source or dirty secret, it’s all bad. Sometimes in order for me to stay logical I have to say to myself “he’ll be there when I get ready to pull his chain” in order for me to stay away from the situation.

        I had a friend once that tried to quit smoking. She kept a cigarette in her top drawer in her dresser. The fear of not having a smoke available if she absolutely needed it was overwhelming. It was a mind trick that helped her quit. In this case the email is Kiki’s cigarette in her top drawer….haha ok that may be dumb but you get what I mean.

        When i gave that advice to Kiki it was to give her a minute to think. In my opinion if he is emailing her (and if he is a narc) he has gone nowhere This is her minute to step back, evaluate her situation and not fear that if she doesn’t jump to his command (or email in this case) he will never talk again. If he’s emailing he’s not done.

        If he is not a narc then he will understand her need for space at this time to decide what is best for herself.

      4. Insatiable Learner says:

        Thank you for clarifying, Mercy. Yes, I understand the cigarette analogy. I am glad it worked for your friend. I would argue though that addiction to a narc is a lot stronger (I have never smoked so I do not know but I heard others draw this and other comparisons), so keeping a narc in such close proximity, if not physically then at least mentally and emotionally, is almost a sure way to continue feeding the addiction rather than breaking it. I know this is true for me. Maybe it is different for others. But I understand your comment was meant to reassure and support Kiki. Thanks again!

      5. Lori says:


        It can take many years depending on where you drop to in the fuel matrix. I would say after a certain number of hoovers and new additions to the supply matrix he may for a very long time or even permanently but for them to just bolt and never be heard from are rare cases

    3. Mercy says:

      One more thing…doesn’t matter if he’s a narc or not. He’s playing mind games and it’s not a good situation to be in. Not a healthy relationship anyway you look at it .

  4. Caroline says:

    It’s a crushing thing to have your feelings invalidated.

    One important thing a healthy parent does for a child is to contain the overwhelming feelings, and provide comfort.
    “I’m here”, “tell me what’s happened”, “you’re feeling sad,” and then the parent says what they’ll do to fix it/make it better/ bring justice.
    It’s incredibly powerful.

    When we have this foundation, when we learn internal referencing, we learn to self-soothe, and feel a sense of internal power. We don’t need to suffocatingly control everyone else.

    1. windstorm says:

      You reminded me of an incident when I was 16. My band director from school came to the house to check on me because he feared I was suicidal. After he’d spoken to my father and left, my father just looked at me really disappointed and sad and turned away. Later my mother came in my room and warned me that she didn’t want me to upset my father anymore. They truly only cared about themselves – the opposite of your description of a healthy parent.

      1. Caroline says:

        What a painful memory.
        Oh what a pair of empty, dismal individuals who completely missed the point!
        How woefully unqualified to be your parents.
        What a champion your band leader was.
        I feel so annoyed with them.
        Blind Freddie could see the thing to do was to give you a hug and spend time talking to you! To show some natural concern. To see how you were, not belittle, embarrass you or make you feel bad. They had to make it all about them, didn’t they?.
        Windstorm., when I get my time machine and go and rescue K, you’ll be my next little lamb.

        1. windstorm says:

          Same year would work for me, you could get me out a year early. That happened in ‘74.

      2. K says:

        Jesus, I am so sorry that you went through that. You deserved to be loved and taken care of… that just boils my piss thinking about how badly you were treated by your parents. How sad!

        I will see you and Caroline on the time machine.

      3. Bubbles🍾 says:

        Dearest Windstorm,
        What a devasting experience for you at 16. Your band leader was a thoughtful kind caring and compassionate person. You …. dear lovely lady …… are one hellava beautiful being, always remember that
        Thank you for relating that to us
        Big Bear hugs for you Mother Earth 🐻
        Luv Bubbles xx

      4. Clarece says:

        WS! Your memory was very jarring for me. I’m so sorry you were not comforted or validated by either of your parents. The lesson you were taught is do not bring shame on this family, internalize any coming of age angst you had, and carry an added burden of giving them some kind of annoying grief to deal with being called out by a school official. They just wanted to brush this incident under the rug.
        Not once were you asked, “what’s troubling you”. No positive reinforcement.
        Those feelings were very important to be heard, no matter what. Hugs to you!

  5. Bibi says:

    I am planning to purchase another HG book in the upcoming week. (I have an Amazon gift card coming,lol.)

    I a torn b/t Fury and Evil. My plan was to purchase Fury till I saw a lot more comments re: Evil.

    Where is Narc Angel? She would know.

    And HG, the reason I don’t get both at once (even though I will eventually purchase both) is because I have to take you in small doses, so every couple months, I get a book from you.

    Not to worry, I feel the same about Depeche Mode. Great in small doses.

    Though I have heard that in Evil you share all your bad deeds. I think of you as a sweet little cuddly marshmallow, HG. Can my tiny heart take this?

    And the sex book will only depress me. So that one is out. As I have said, I have had no great sex from any narcissist. I have undergone all the misery without any of the pleasure. I am truly at a loss. Feel sorry for me. 🙁

    (Violins, anyone?)


    I look forward to your book on coworker narcs. That one I must have.

    1. Clarece says:

      Hi Bibi!
      I would recommend Fury! It is at the core and the driving force when they seek negative fuel. Evil gives a lot of broad strokes in several areas.

      1. Bibi says:

        Thank you Clarece. I do intend to purchase FURY as that is what my gut tells me I need to read. I think this aspect is important for me to understand.

        Once I do I will send feedback to HG as always.

    2. NarcAngel says:

      Hi Bibi
      I recommend Fury first of the two. Fuel, Fury, and Sitting Target are fundamental to understanding, especially for people just starting to excavate this subject and apply to all situations (I think they should be a boxed set), followed by Sex and the Narcissist for anyone in an intimate relationship. Evil, Elated and Eroded (read the article It on here before reading that one) and the rest are great follow ups after the basics. Thats my view. Enjoy.

    3. Twilight says:


      I agree with Clarece I would go with Fury.

      A sweet cuddly marshmallow…..the image of the marshmallow man from ghostbusters my grandson drew for me came to mind. He drew him with flames just like HGs logo.

    4. foolme1time says:

      No I I’m with Clarese on this one. Fury is one of my absolute favorites!

  6. Presque vi says:

    God I’m so drunk!
    Don’t care if this makef sense’

    I fugkin miss him.

    Inm laughing at our funny miments, because we had them! Dint worry no contact still. Share here instead. Sade place

    Take this kiss upon the brow!
    And, in parting from you now,
    Thus much let me avow —
    You are not wrong, who deem
    That my days have been a dream;
    Yet if hope has flown away
    In a night, or in a day,
    In a vision, or in none,
    Is it therefore the less gone?
    All that we see or seem
    Is but a dream within a dream.

    I stand amid the roar
    Of a surf-tormented shore,
    And I hold within my hand
    Grains of the golden sand —
    How few! yet how they creep
    Through my fingers to the deep,
    While I weep — while I weep!
    O God! Can I not grasp
    Them with a tighter clasp?
    O God! can I not save
    One from the pitiless wave?
    Is all that we see or seem
    But a dream within a dream?

    Don’t want ro cry
    Friendd keep me save and live megnight

    1. Bibi says:

      LOL you sound like me on so many a nights. I am certain HG is amused by our drunken posts. I am guilty of many.

      HG, this is why you are a marshmallow to me. Because you put up with my silliness. Do you think Mr. Sam would even tolerate a second of my shit? He is so mean. You are nice.

      I miss you. I fucking love these typos. You are adorable, Presque vi.

    2. Presque Vu says:

      WHAT!! Please don’t post my drunken ramblings Tudor – I don’t remember this… shit sorry everyone 🙁

      1. Bubbles🍾 says:

        Dear Presque Vu,
        I thought it was cute … please don’t be sorry… that poem was awesome
        I’ve posted when I’ve had a few too many martoonies … (I bet most of us have)…. but my posts still look the same 😂
        Cheers beautiful 🥂
        Luv Bubbles xx

      2. NarcAngel says:

        Presque Vu
        We’ve all been there. You were miles better behaved than me who pisses in ashtrays and blows up eggs in the microwave when drunk. Dont be sorry-I appreciated the laugh.

      3. Blank says:


    3. WhoCares says:

      Presque vi –

      I hope you’re feeling better and did not dwell too long on memories of your narc…although sometimes it’s good to purge those memories (through reliving them and then letting go.)

      Anyway in the spirit of ‘funny miments’, as you typed; I tried to get through the words that you shared…only, I got stuck at “a dream within a dream” because my brain wouldn’t let me get past hearing Peter Cook’s voice, as the clergyman, in the Princess Bride:

      “Mawwiage. Mawwiage is wot bwings us togewah today.

      Mawwiage, that bwessed awangement.
      That dweam wiffin a dweam…

      And wuv.
      Twoo wuv…
      …will fowow you foweva.”

      Presque vi – I really hope you’re doing okay!

  7. Exvictim says:

    HG, I have a question,

    my ex discarded me, he told me he doesn’t see any future with me because I “let him down” (didn’t want to be a puppet without own opinion). I felt worthless like I wasn’t good enough.

    A month after the discard he started contacting me regularly. He was acting like a friend. Like nothing happened even like we were never a couple! Is this normal for narcissists? For me it was as hurtful as the discard. He made me feel like I wasn’t a woman. Like I was no longer a woman to him but just a nonsexual “friend”.

    It only added more pain so I went no contact and I keep it.

    These hoovers were benign (friendly) but by acting like a friend he was causing more pain.

    Do narcissists do it on purpose? Do they know that pretending their ex is not a woman anymore just ads a knife in the wound or are they numb and have no idea it is hurtful and they think they do good by this type of friendly contact? Also is it sincere they start seeing the former girl as a platonic friend?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      He may not have disengaged from you but rather placed you on the shelf. He then lifts you off the shelf a month later and behaves with you in a non-intimate, friendly manner. This preserves his facade, enables him to maintain control and gain fuel (either from you responding pleasantly to his benign behaviour or being upset that he is treating you as a non-intimate appliance when you have been intimate before). I would need to know more about the dynamic to provide you with an entirely accurate answer and therefore you should organise a consultation.

    2. Lori says:

      Oh god I got this exact thing. He did that cause he knew it would hurt you and you’d keep trying. They love seeing you pining for them

      I personally think it has to do with where you are in the matrix. He likely had someone else and doesn’t want use the energy it takes to fake romantic emotions but by saying you are a friend it’s multi pronged in that by saying you are a friend you’ll keep trying to ressurect the romance and he still gets to keep you in the que and prevents you from moving on

  8. Kat_11-7 says:

    It makes you (narcissists(psychopaths) feel so great doesn’t it, our tears? You say this only because you want us to cry with more force at your cruel words. You, you also hate yourself for needing us so completely, so utterly, in your mind. The world that you created for yourself is magnificently flawed wherein it keeps you dependant upon others constantly. You can never stand alone, you must always be attached to someone, usually many someones. Others must cry FOR you, darling child, since you cannot not even do that truly for yourself. What a pity you cannot feel the love, for this is the only reason why you will never BE loved, because you cannot feel loved. Sweet lost child of long ago, hide-n-seek has turned into a twisted world for you. Always seeking attention but always hiding, from yourself.

    1. Caroline says:

      That’s a great post. I felt all of your longing and wistfulness. The echoes of unrequited love; ours for them as adults, and theirs as little ones with empty love tanks.

  9. tigerchelle78 says:

    No that’s what narcs are hoping to achieve from their crocodile tears,… attention….
    But we cry, because that’s what happens when we are hurt and in a lot of pain, and often cannot even describe the emotions we feel because they cut so deep into our core and heart.
    Something you will never know about.
    Narcs have made crying seem weak, and attention seeking because that’s how they view it.
    We who cry, and feel pain, empathy, compassion, love, know different. Narcs/psychopaths will never have or know of that release that comes from tears either. And you know what, unless they ever change their cruel and destructive ways….they don’t deserve to know what that feels like.

    1. Blank says:

      Perhaps a narcissist wouldn’t have become a narcissist if he’d been able to cry from the start (childhood).

      1. Presqur Vu says:


      2. Caroline says:

        Good point.
        Little ones can’t even articulate their feelings. Crying is NORMAL.

        I’ve been reading some good articles about what leads to PTSD, what is the context that’s necessary to push the experience of trauma to a permanent damaging loop of terror that can’t be shut down.
        One aspect is the having nowhere to go with the emotional pain. The feelings are overwhelming, and beyond the person’s ability to process or cope with. There is nowhere to go to be heard. Nowhere to get justice.
        So the inbuilt acute violation alarms can’t be properly addressed, and then turned off.

        In our resilience as humans, we make our own negative neuroplastic changes to survive; extreme avoidance of reexperiencing, depression (who wants to pump out more neurotransmitters that are going to make you remember more often?), dissociation, and even atrophy of the grey matter involved can occur. Our responses to avoiding retraumatisation become subconscious, and are lightening fast.
        We are incredibly complex, fragile and resilient as people, aren’t we? Each of us needs to experience being loved, which is really the best treatment for trauma. It’s certainly my experience.

      3. Blank says:

        Hi Caroline! Sorry, I only read your comment just now. I agree with you, it is very complicated. But PTSD doesn’t necessarily lead to narcissism, unless I am a narcissist myself (besides the N-abuse, I suffered 8 traumatic ‘events’ in a few years, which left me numb. My brain/memory is really messed up). When I look carefully at the two last narcs I was ivolved with, they both have a few things in common and one thing is, like you mentioned, they had nowhere to go with their emotional pain (I would say with their emotions in general). They were both kind of ‘left alone’ by their parents and their parents only gave them attention when they ‘achieved’ something, and their parents would tell them how proud they were of them and how intelligent or special they were. These children would try to improve the skills they were praised for and dream of admiration and becoming excellent in their field.
        N-1 was praised for his intelligence and knowledge, N-2 for being so talented in music. Both were good looking children and would therefor be given more attention than other children, which made them believe even more they were special.
        In both narcs I see too high expectations, as if they were wonder children and neither of them could make these expectations come true in early adulthood. So they felt they’d failed, but couldn’t bear this idea and that’s why they compensated this with their feeling of superiority. The feeling of failure is also often pushed away with alcohol and drugs.Those are my thoughts.

        On a website I read tonight:

        “If the concept of narcissism is to have meaning, we must be cautious and guarded in its application. We must also remember the psychoanalytic wisdom that all of us have some degree of narcissism. And, most importantly, we must bear in mind that narcissistic individuals experience genuine suffering and are just as worthy of compassionate treatment and understanding as other mentally ill persons.
        Greater emphasis should be placed on the dynamic interpretation of narcissism as a defense mechanism and its treatment as a psychiatric disorder rather than on its popular description as an “evil” and “despicable” phenomenon.”

        There you are. Just when I decided to leave him alone, this is what I come across. And then the doubt sets in again… I should be more compassionate…
        But after thinking it over, I came to the conclusion that I am no psychologist, I can not help him/them and it is time I need to help myself.
        I agree with you Caroline, we are incredibly complex, fragile and resilient as people indeed. And even all the psychologists and psychiatrists in the world don’t get it quite right. I’d even dare to say, not even HG… (he’s loading his AK 47 right now ;)), because we as humans have not enough knowledge of the brain yet.
        Very interesting all this stuff though.

        And before I go to bed now, I wanna say thank you to HG for everything you do on this blog to help us and congratulations on the 11 million (+) views! Goodnight!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You just about evaded the naughty step there!

      4. Caroline says:

        Please buy your doctors a big box of chocolates from all of us, to say thank you to them for the process that’s led to us being able to have you here with us.
        You are a treasure.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I’m not buying them anything, they get paid enough as it is.

      5. Blank says:


      6. Caroline says:

        Oh well, no Chocs for the docs, but we still get your company.

      7. Caroline says:

        Hi Blank
        I hope you’re well today. I found what you wrote so interesting, and want to thank you for taking time to explain, and share your insights.
        I’m sorry to hear that you have PTSD, hon.
        I wish I could fix yours, as well as my own.

    2. Presque vi says:

      Reread the blog and childhoof abuse, it’s embedded here, something avout uoi I can’t put my finger on.

      1. tigerchelle78 says:

        Presque vi? Was that comment to me? What do you mean?

    3. Quasi says:

      Sometimes a child is conditioned not to cry, literally. The abuse is such that they are shaped and moulded to respond in a way that is more acceptable by the abuser. Or the abuser gets a sadistic kick out of the process.

      For the child that develops narcissism this may not be seen as a bad thing in adulthood. They may believe it’s weakness as this was taught also.

      For the child that does not develop narcissism and had high empathy it creates great difficulty in processing emotions and regulating them. With emotional release in other ways if at all.

      Just my thoughts/ perspective, but I believe that maintaining the ability to cry and release pain in this way is healthier and supports healing. So those who can not, may struggle with a longer healing journey.

      All of these icicles memes present to me as a total projection of the narcissists experiences, now directed at their target … what the narcissist heard or believed to be true through experience. The cycle of experience/ learn / repeat.

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