The Narcissist’s Social Media Laws – No. 1

soc med 1

This is a meme.

74 thoughts on “The Narcissist’s Social Media Laws – No. 1

  1. Presque Vu says:

    Fuel on the shelf, you are in the sea of despair – drowning!
    I’ve seen a lot of advice given to you by HG and very wise women of this blog but it seems you pay no heed. I understand you are still treading water – it’s clear to see.

    From what I’ve read of your posts, you are trying to analyse a fish! You can’t.

    You cannot. He will continue to pick you up and drop you as it suits. Forever.

    Lori, analise13 and Clarece – 3 strong intelligent women have given you the empaths perspective (as your friends) and HG from the Married boyfriends perspective (the Narc and master puppeteer). You have the full circle of protection and the actions to stop drowning!

    Grab the life-line- get out of the water- and leave Jaws to blow up on an air tank as you flutter off into the breeze and new beginnings.

    1. NarcAngel says:

      I hypothesize that she already knows the answers to the questions she asks and knows that the responses from HG and everyone genuinely concerned about her are true, but that discussion about him when he is unavailable to her keeps him real and alive in her mind and the attention subs in for him until he contacts again, supports the addiction and confirms to her a “relationship” where there really is none. I wish better for her but addiction really is a bitch and you have to want to take steps to free yourself.

      1. Windstorm says:

        All very true. People don’t change their behavior because people tell them why it’s important or because caring others want them to. People only change their behavior when they understand and decide for themselves that change is the best thing for them. FOTS is just not there, yet.

      2. Lori says:

        I would say that is largely true and imo I think that’s ok if you are actively trying to accept and work on the addiction which for most of us Is going to make multiple tries and that’s ok too lord knows I’ve done it but if youre trying to figure out ways to manipulate so you can stay engaged you will eventually end up in a very dark place.

        The end of the craziness lies in truly accepting that they don’t secretly really care about you. They don’t not even a little. Accepting the truth eventually sets you free for someone who can actually love you

        And lemme tell everyone I have been both ipps and ipss and they both suck equally

  2. Tappi Tikarrass says:

    So glad I have no social media presence. Also eliminates the desire to go stalking. Liberating.

  3. wounded says:

    My apologies for the double comment.

    Thank you everyone for your insight. Deleting straight away. Makes my skin crawl.

    On a sidenote HG read your Battery blog. Beautiful piece.

  4. Claudia says:

    I would like to request a meme for the behavior of when the narc tags the empath in something as a hoover maneuver after not speaking for months or years, LOL. I’m sure I’m not the only one!

  5. Karen says:


    if people are together in a relationship for about two months and their relationship is a roller coaster at this point – fights, break ups, unfriending on social media, make ups, befriending – can we say at least one of them is a narcissist? Every couple fights from time to time, but dramatic break ups and quick come backs sound like high school, esp when it is so fresh relationship. And these people are adults and from the outside they match perfectly (same interests, same outgoing personalities and so on). Can it be a sign of a narcissistic relationship?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Indeed it can.

  6. Fuel on the Shelf says:

    My MRN deleted a comment on his Facebook from me and then told me he did it that his wife was asking who I was within minutes of me posting the comment. Honestly I did not even notice and when I texted him to say hi, he immediately says “I am so sorry I had to do that”. LOL.

    Ummm….doesn’t deleting my comment make you look more suspicious dumbass?

    Later on he told that his wife questions who people are if she does not know them. Then it went into an explanation of my comment on his picture (which was “you look lovely”) upset her because people are always flirting with him (often in front of her) and she gets upset. However he told me if I said “you BOTH look lovely” (it was a pic of him and his daughter) that would have been okay because she would have had no reason to question it.

    LOL. I wish I was making this up. But I am not.

    1. Clarece says:

      Hi FOTS! You’ve said in the past you get jealous of his wife and desperately want to know what it’s really like for her.
      This post is extremely telling if you break down the part for his wife.
      She needs to know within minutes who someone is if they post comments on one of his posts (prob especially if they are female).
      Why do you think that is?
      Because she knows about the affair before you. Because that shatters trust in a marriage and keeps you always watchful waiting for it to happen again
      Because he has admitted she thinks women flirt with him, has probably witnessed it firsthand and knows he has a weakness for it and encourages it.
      Behind closed doors, she does not have a rosy marriage and existence with him. She is kept to feeling insecure and the rug could be ripped away at any time. And anyone replacing her, would get the same lot because nothing has changed him being a cheater for the last 10 years.
      I wish you would stop settling for this.

      1. Fuel on the Shelf says:

        Hi Clarece.
        The thing that confuses me is how HG always talks about how they (the Narc) has to be the one in control all the time. However in this situation I have described SHE is clearly the one that is in control of HIM here. (unless of course he is just deleting my comment on purpose and then making up the entire situation about her in regard to his social media actions; which was also another theory of mine). Sigh. My overthinking is always rampant. If they (the Narc) are the one that must always be in control of every situation… it seems like the opposite is happening here where she is in control if he’s deleting my comment. I thought no one else but of the Narc could be in control. Do you know what I mean?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You should not be commenting in the first place, then you would not be trying to work out who is doing the deletion. If his wife insists on deletion, he maintains control over her by agreeing to do it and thus keeping her onside. It also triangulates you.

          1. MB says:

            That’s another backwards manipulation FOTS! Like apologizing to maintain control. She wants him to delete comments so he does and she remains onside. He is deleting to suit HIS aims. HE is the one in control, not her. Believe HG. If he wanted the comments to stay, hell would freeze over before they would be gone.

          2. Fuel on the Shelf says:

            Forget regular manipulations….now there are backwards manipulations too? I know there was an article on backwards compliments. Is this the place to suggest future articles? Perhaps one on backwards manipulations!

            Oh and there are times when comments definitely remain too! I guess it depends on whatever his mood is.

          3. MB says:

            FOTS. I made up the backwards manipulation. Maybe “counter-intuitive” as WS said is more apt. What I meant was the manipulations that we can’t spot because of the appearance that the narc is the one being manipulated/controlled. Topping from the bottom so to speak.

          4. Fuel on the Shelf says:

            This explanation makes sense. I guess it ties back into him being the “victim”. He is always the victim somehow.

          5. MB says:

            Don’t forget that nothing is ever their fault either!

        2. Clarece says:

          FOTS…Piano Man’s wife is in control? Really? He IS cheating. He IS lying. With you. So her hypervigilance is warranted. He is being cagey and hiding information. She is the wife he took vows to and raise children with. He most certainly is controlling this situation and staying two steps ahead of her. In her gut she knows after the first affair there’s a chance he’d do it again. She just doesn’t know she’s right because he is doing an excellent job of keeping you compartmentalized and content with love crumbs so you don’t blow the whistle on the while thing. How do you not see this? You act as though he is always telling you the truth. He is lying to both of you as the situation calls for.

          1. Fuel on the Shelf says:

            “She just doesn’t know she’s right because he is doing an excellent job of keeping you compartmentalized and content with love crumbs so you don’t blow the whistle on the while thing.”

            Oh there are many times when I want to blow the whistle. I go back and forth with it all the time. Unfortunately, he owes me money so I am continuing the niceties. For the time being.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            1. There is no point blowing the whistle. It will just continue your engagement and addiction. It may also backfire.
            2. Get somebody else to recover the money. That also is just causing you to continue to engage.

          3. Fuel on the Shelf says:

            The money was repaid to me this morning, on time, as was originally promised when the loan was given. I’m relieved but also very surprised since the general advice and consensus I received here seemed to indicate that I’d likely never see that money again.

            It’s not my intent to look a gift horse in the mouth so to say but now I’m wondering why he was so prompt. (I was doubting him). I am wondering if he took out a loan from someone else to repay me.

            After he Pay Paled me he texted me to confirm. After confirming the money was in my bank account I texted back to thank him. His reply was “You’re welcome but there is no need to thank me. I gave you my word that I’d repay you fully…and I did”.


          4. HG Tudor says:

            I did not state you would never see the money again, I advised you to have somebody else attend to its collection and recovery so you avoided repeated engagement.
            Who cares if he took out a loan, whether he robbed a bank or went busking to obtain the money – that is not your concern. You have the money thus
            1. You have been repaid ; and
            2. This removes a strand of engagement, embrace that fact.

            I note you remain texting him. Keeping this electronic conduit open is no contact suicide. Change your number and delete his from your phone.
            I am not interpreting his behaviour for you because it is pointless, your ET is too high that you are not using interpretation to aid no contact and understanding but instead to maintain an engagement with him by thinking about his behaviour and motives.

          5. Fuel on the Shelf says:

            I know that you yourself did not say that the money wouldnt be repaid but the general consensus of the of the other readers here was that it would not have been repaid on time or at all. Hence the reason for my follow-up question of why would he break the “usual narc mold” by paying me back on time. That’s why I asked.

          6. HG Tudor says:

            Never mind that FOTS, focus on the other points I raised to assist you.

          7. MB says:

            I must agree with HG. You’re spending your life holding on to something that’s never going to happen. Are you dating? I hope that now that the loan has been repaid, you will go out on the town, join a dating site, etc and get this guy off your mind. HG will be happy to Date Defend for you. Constructive interpretation for you to GOSO and get unstuck. You are worth so much more than you are settling for. I want you to see you like we do. Beautiful with so much more to give. He may not appreciate it, but somebody else will.

          8. HG Tudor says:

            Solid no contact must happen before dating. Whilst dating is a distraction, ET is far too high and dating is likely to

            1. Purely be a comparison between the date and the current narcissist and thus cause repeated engagement through thoughts and talking about the narcissist; and
            2. Risk ensnarement by a new narcissist.

            No contact must be implemented and maintained first.

          9. MB says:

            That is good to know HG. You are the expert.

          10. Fuel on the Shelf says:

            Indeed he is MB.
            #1 happens for me ALL THE TIME. 🙁

          11. MB says:

            There’s no harm in going out and having a good time though, right? You don’t have to sit at home all miserable to get ET under control do you?

          12. HG Tudor says:

            Of course not, but romantic interactions should be parked until ET is under control.

          13. MB says:

            There you go FOTS. A night out with the girls. HG approves. Narcdar turned up to 10.

          14. HG Tudor says:

            Spot on.

          15. Fuel on the Shelf says:

            Lmao you guys are funny! Narcdar!! 🤣

            HG…. regarding the points you made in your earlier post about while dating is not good until ET is under control. #1: comparing everyone you meet to the narc and #2. being ensnared again …

            You have given us much advice on #2 but I know approach everyone I meet with utmost suspicion.

            How do we deal with #1?

          16. HG Tudor says:

            You get you Et under control first.

          17. Clarece says:

            Guess what? JN told me he was going to send a check after the 4th of July weekend he stood me up in 2015 for the hotel I prepaid because of his invite. With his thousand apologies, you think I ever saw repayment? Um…no. You aren’t getting money back so don’t keep using that as a reason to keep lines of communication open with Piano Man. He didnt owe you money last year at this time. So that is a new development. You did that for yourself to justify still talking to a married man that can’t be yours. What a prick for taking money from you. What about his other 1300 friends on FB? Or family?

          18. Fuel on the Shelf says:

            It was money that I lent to him recently. And it was promised that it would be repaid by tomorrow.

            But yeah based on the general consensus here, I am sure you are all correct and it won’t be repaid. Or some excuse will be given as to why it won’t be repaid tomorrow.

          19. Clarece says:

            I’d rather you be prepared to not see him tomorrow or this week for that matter, then maybe get pleasantly surprised rather than waking up expecting to meet a deadline that he won’t feel any obligation to uphold.

          20. Fuel on the Shelf says:

            I saw him last week. I reminded him of his repayment promise. I don’t have plans see him this week. He promised to Pay Pal me the money by tomorrow.

          21. Clarece says:

            If he actually repays, do not ever loan him money again. He can use a credit card or borrow from the bank like a big boy with his sterling reputation. Friends and money do not mix.

          22. MB says:

            Let us know what happens FOTS. It will be a learning opportunity for all of us. Fingers crossed!

          23. Fuel on the Shelf says:

            He repaid the money to me this morning as promised. On time. And within the original promised deadline. I am beyond shocked since the general consensus here was that he would have not done that. He texted me to confirm that he had sent me the money via PayPal. I texted back “thank you”. His response was “no need to thank me I gave you my word that I would pay you back within the given timeframe and I did”.

            So unexpected, and of course I’m overthinking it, wondering what his angle was by paying it back timely when everybody thought that he was going to screw me over and not pay it.

          24. Clarece says:

            Guess what? JN told me he was going to send a check after the 4th of July weekend he stood me up in 2015 for the hotel I prepaid because of his invite. With his thousand apologies, you think I ever saw repayment? Um…no. You aren’t getting money back so don’t keep using that as a reason to keep lines of communication open with Piano Man. He didnt owe you money last year at this time. So that is a new development. You did that for yourself to justify still talking to a married man that can’t be yours. What a prick for taking money from you. What about his other 1300 FB friends or family?

          25. windstorm says:


        3. Clarece says:

          And that’s what I am saying that he is IN control deleting the comment and running circles around both of you. You have to stop taking every word out of his mouth as set in stone truth. Like seriously, poor Piano Man has this tyrannical wife? No.
          I had a run in with JN at the end of June. JN tried some of his lame hoovers over a week period with a missed call late at night and a “mistext”. When my best friend checked social media and saw him and the new girlfriend had matching profiles and both changed their status to “in a relationship”, I knew he was signaling to get my attention and see that.
          I did email him at work (which he hates), and told him no more of any that and delete my number once and for all.
          The following day there was an exchange and I reiterated some of his atrocious behavior and that he needed to stay the f*ck away because I dont have anything to do with men spoken for. He kept apologizing and asked me to stop bashing him.
          When I relayed the convo to my best friend who has witnessed everything unfold, I told her I thought he was getting bored and feeling the noose already and looking for action on the side. Ala Piano Man style. She said she interpreted it as him doing damage control or triangulation. With his new relationship status she said he knows I could be capable of sending “evidence” to the new gf showing what he’s capable of. Hence having texts showing him apologizing and me not accepting, he can look like the angel (with the dirty face) trying to do the right thing. Or, he wanted to get any texts from me so that way he could have his messages casually up around her that weekend and play victim with, “oh that older woman who is still obsessed with me from a few years ago, keeps begging me to see her. I apologized but it’s never enough”…
          My point is FOTS, you really have no clue how he is spinning the story to suit his home life when he puts the phone down with you. His wife does have every reason to keep her eye on his phone though. She just hasn’t caught on yet. She is not the bad guy here.
          HG, you know JN’s track history pretty well. Was he looking to see if he could line me up for future contact on the side? Or was my bff right and it was for damage control and triangulation with the new girlfriend?

          1. HG Tudor says:

            He was hoovering you for fuel and sought to triangulate you by wanting you to see he was in a new relationship so you would react to that.

          2. Clarece says:

            Well he got very straight forward, caustic fuel that day and has just kept to the new primary now. I thought it was for triangulation games.

          3. Fuel on the Shelf says:

            I remember when you shared about JN’s new girlfriend, I too guessed that he would be back. He ALWAYS comes back. Just like Piano Man.

          4. Clarece says:

            He hasn’t this last time. He hates to be told to stay away from me on his work email where it can be monitored since he is a government social worker.

      2. Fuel on the Shelf says:

        What is it about them where they don’t like to be “bothered” at work?! There really is a textbook!
        Next you’ll tell me he “works late all the time”. And in a job “helping” people too? Both of them! JN and Piano Recital.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          It’s called triangulation.

        2. Clarece says:

          They don’t want to be interrupted at work when it isn’t their choosing because we were both DLS. (Well, past tense for me)
          Last night I had a dream JN murdered me.
          But I’m hoping that has more to tie in watching the last few episodes of Showtime’s “The Affair”, which recently had a murder plot with a sociopath who made it look like a suicide.
          Happy Monday to all.

      3. Lori says:


        He will be back for a larger sum of money and he won’t pay it back. That was merely a warn up transaction to get you to trust him so that he can ask for a larger sum and guess what he likely borrowed that money to pay you with from someone else.

        Gosh FOTS I hope you can get a handle on this addiction even if this guy wasn’t a narc it would be a very bad situation. He’s married with another baby on the way. If anything end this for that baby’s sake. This isn’t a guy with almost grown kids and thinking he mighty wantbout if his marriage no he is a guy that has no intention of leaving his wife. He is using you in the cruelest of ways and believe me there are very likely others you know nothing about

        As far as the wife I bet she is nothing like he described her

      4. Lori says:

        Trust me the wife never said a word. It’s another ipss that he had off the shelf The wife was just a plausible excuse.

      5. Kimi says:

        Hi FOTS,

        Have you confirmed payment via your PayPal account? If it is there, I’m so happy for you! Don’t count it until it’s in your account for some time…

        I can relate to your being a shelved IPSS/DLS. I was so in love with my Narc and so emotionally entangled. Several engagements allowed me to see him as he really is, not the man he pretended to be. I no longer have the deep longing to be with him and a part of his life.

        I now understand the wisdom of HG’s GOSO. My emotional thinking kept me returning time and time again, almost losing a good whole man in the process. I have learned that I can love him from afar, wish him well on his journey and without the need to participate in his fuel supply. I am an Empath all; we all are truly special!

        I wish you well and hope you find your healthy peace!

    2. clair says:

      aren’t you assisting him with playing games with his wife in this manner? Which is what he is doing and in the meantime enjoying your attention too

      1. Fuel on the Shelf says:

        He has almost 1600 Facebook friends and most of them are probably female.
        The in question had about 300 likes and comments yet my comment is the only one that got singled out? And deleted? I mean don’t get me wrong, I’m sure it could be a possibility, but I somehow doubt his wife demands to know who every one of those people are on his Facebook.

    3. Twilight says:


      Is the money really worth the heartache? Or is it an excuse to continue? I am sure you already know the answer.
      My heartbreaks every time I read what is going on with you and him because you deserve much more then crumbs of comfort and aggravation.

      So long as he keeps you in the why state he has complete control and knows you will not wander off. Your comment of he had many likes and comments to that picture tells me his wife had nothing to do with it and he did and told you this to cause anxiety and why. Now if she knows or has a suspicion of your affair with him then I believe it would be a very different scenario like you would be deleted from everything and contacted on the side.

      1. Lori says:

        He deleted bevause there is likely a another ipss that he probably has told that them that you stalk him or obsessed but for some outlandish reason he can’t delete you cause you’ll tell his wife or some craziness like that. I guarantee you that you are not the only ipss

      2. Lori says:

        YEP this is why you are on the shelf. Its not his wife it’s because there are 1 or more new ipsss

        Please pleaaae please don’t let this guy use you like this and believe me sooner than later you are going to be completely discarded and blocked from everything everywhere.

      3. Lori says:


        I am so worried for you. Your addiction is so so deep. I know you think by asking HG why he did this or did that will get you the upper hand but it will not because there is a crucial element here in that HE DOESNT CARE. at all. None. You do so he will ALWAYS win. This guy doesn’t secretly really care for you. He’s using you for sex, money, adulation and fuel. That’s it’s. He really doesn’t not give a rats ass about you that is just reality

        What are you getting from this?

    4. analise13 says:

      Hi FOTS.
      Please, please listen to HG, Clarece and Lori and other readers giving you sound advice,
      You remind me so much of my family member, DLS shelved IPSS.
      The reason I am here,
      She won’t let him go either.
      She holds on to him.
      He expects it and yes, this guy is afraid you will tell his wife and ruin everything for him.
      He is pacifying you to shut you up.
      You cannot see it.
      Because of your emotional thinking, trauma bonding and addiction/ attachment,
      He keeps you hanging on.
      Because he knows you wnat to leave and cannot.
      He knows you love him.
      He hopes you won’t tell his wife too.
      He doesn’t deserve your time or your love.
      You deserve better.
      Not waiting and questioning his every move and motive.
      I feel for you.
      I understand how difficult it is.
      But please use all the tools HG has given you.
      I know you can break free.
      It really is harnessing your emotional thinking.
      Or he does an even bigger bastard move to make you say enough.

      1. Clarece says:

        Agreed Analise13 with FOTS situation. I fear she will perceive Piano Man paying up on his loan from her as a good sign and he’s of better caliber since many of us doubted he’d come thru with that.
        But that is still not the case. He is pacifying her just enough…out of his own fear his wife may find out (like you wrote). And if the wife finds out about affair #2 after she forgave the first one, especially with baby #2 on the way, she could literally take him to the cleaners and get full custody of both children. That he could not allow to be humiliated that way in his church which upholds his facade.
        FOTS has to turn the corner and want to truly cut all ties and go no contact and I don’t see that happening when she asks questions about his behavior so she can figure out how to navigate around that and keep his contact continuing. I don’t mean this badly. I’m crushed for her that she is content to keep saying she is addicted to him so therefore it isn’t going to stop.

        1. analise13 says:

          Me too, Clarece.
          I wish FOTS could see what we all see.
          But, that is not the case.
          Sometimes I want to break into tough love and stop myself.
          Because I know it often doesn’t work when the other person is still addicted.
          Sometimes I think maybe if Hg didn’t answer her questions.
          Sorry. HG, by that I mean, continue to give advice
          That as Clarece said,
          allows her to navigate around his narcissistic behaviours to keep him.
          Then I think, she need the information.
          Until it resonates with her.

          FOTS, this is not a criticism of you.
          I understand why you are this way.
          Why you cannot let him go.
          From your prespective.

          Clarece you are right,
          He will not allow his marriage to be destroyed
          and his good church going family man image demolished.
          By you FOTS.
          He must muster all he has to control his fury.
          You deserve better then crumbs, contained fury or to be managed and shelved.
          I know HG says due to emotional thinking you shouldn’t date.
          But, you do need a distraction from your thoughts of him.
          I do not think talking about him here, helps you one bit.
          Right now.
          But, I also know why you talk about him
          It is a need.
          I do not encourage that need, though.
          As it is also the seed that makes no contact impossible.

      2. Lori says:

        Y’all ba lieve me when I tell you that loan repayment had purpose. They do everything with purpose. He will wait awhile and come back for a much larger sum


        Don’t take this the wrong way, but i really think you should get a professional to help you with this. At this point, it’s clear you are really struggling with a deep addiction. No judgement we all struggle with it some worse than others

        Trust that you have the power to end this.

  7. wounded says:

    I wrote a comment last night but might have hit a wrong button.

    I know this sounds paranoid, but I received and accepted a friend request from someone I used to work with. I got along with them ok, but wasn’t super close. The request actually surprised me and I’m actually a little uneasy. This person is very rarely on social media, doesn’t comment like or anything as far as I can tell, and their friend list is blocked. I just think its odd they bothered. For the record the narc worked for the same company.

    Any insight is helpful.

    1. Twilight says:


      My friend list can not be seen and usually when I accept a friend request of someone I don’t know I restrict them and/or speak with them before accepting. If it bothers you just delete them it isn’t worth disturbing your peace and right now you are what matters.

      1. wounded says:

        Thank you Twilight. Not trusting my gut in the first place got me into this mess. Prior to my life being invaded I got a slew of requests from people I didn’t know and deleted every one. It had never happened prior and hasn’t happened since. I only accept friends of friends or people I outright know which is why this came on my radar. You are right though. I don’t think it matters whether I seem paranoid or not.

    2. clair says:

      why bother to be their friend? what loss is it? delete asap or restrict what they can see as you are playing into the hands of your ex narc here perhaps, if it smells bad or your gut instinct is saying no, then it generally IS bad. This is how we get into relationships with narcs in the first place, we are empaths, givers, so rather than be harsh or have a firm boundary and say no you have accepted the request. If this person is the same sex as you then your narc may very well be in a relationship with them, or it could be a covert profile. You don’t need them in your life anyway so quietly delete and walk away

    3. Twilight says:


      It is ok to feel paranoid, it is a side effect and will gradually leave as you see you can trust yourself once again. It is not a process that can be rushed thou. Until then stick to what you know to be truth.

  8. wounded says:

    Since my entanglement with the Narc I am wary. I question everything.

    A few weeks ago I received a friend request from someone who left the company about two months ago.

    I got along with him like I did most managers….in passing. A few jokes here, an occasional chat etc.

    I was surprised by the request. Apparently we have one friend in common. The other victim. What bothered me is this person rarely uses social media, and his friend list is blocked.

    There is always logic, even if it doesn’t make sense to me.

    Why would someone who rarely uses social media with a blocked friend list associate with me? Especially if we weren’t close.

    Pardon my paranoia but it irks me and doesn’t feel right.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are correct to be cautious.

  9. Elainie says:

    Oh my, isn’t that so? In fact it was one of the tip offs. They keep things VERY contained because they do not want the other fuel supply sources to all know about each other now right? I left a comment under narcs Fb photo when I was visiting him and he removed it. He also of course never approved my instagram friend request as hey that would have led me to even more discovereies, but in the end I doscovered a lot!!!

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