Poll : Holding On – Which of the following have you done with regard to the narcissist post escape/disengagement
As you know, should you escape or be disengaged from, you should impose a full and robust no contact regime. Naturally, your emotional thinking does not want you to do that. It wants you to embrace the Five Fingers of Engagement so you continue to feed the addiction to the narcissist and thus your emotional thinking drives you to maintain some form of contact – from just thinking about the narcissist through to approaching the narcissist and spending time with him or her. You may have spent time monitoring the narcissist’s social media profile looking for clues about who he is with or what she is doing. You may have sent messages to the narcissist or sat outside the narcissist’s home to see who is there, whose car is parked on the drive or who comes and who goes. You may have asked your family or friends to spy on the narcissist and find out information for you or you may have gone so far as to hire a private detective to do some digging and sifting on your behalf.
These interactions are the ones which have taken place POST escape or POST disengagement or whilst you were on the shelf – not whilst you remained in an active and ongoing relationship with the narcissist. Which of the options below (and you may choose as many as are applicable) apply to you? Do also expand in the comments section why you were doing it – what were you wanting to find out or learn? Did you meet with success? Did it cause problems?
Thank you for participating.
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I did not know about NPD or NC when I left my ex N. So I made a lot of mistakes post escape/ disengagement (it was something between the two). I did two mistakes mainly post final break up:
1) I asked people who worked in the same organization he worked questions (not direct obvious ones though) hoping to know something about him
2) Sometimes I would ride or walk near his house hoping to see him and know what he is doing.
One of the things that obsessed me the most after we broke up was to know if he was happy with his new girlfriend (after all he did promise me to love me until his last day. LOL). Now I know I was just caught in old emotional patterns. My mother had always triangulated me with my sisters and I was trapped in the emotional pain caused by the “You are not good enough to be loved. She is better. Look” message. I was also filled with doubts: “Was I too sensitive? Hysterical? Did I expect too much of him? Was I stupid and unstable?” etc. All old patterns I repeated.
Oh, I did google him some times.
I wish I had known about NPD and NC then (big sigh).
The Narc that snared me was unreachable and in total control of when and how he could be contacted. Had no social media, was virtually impossible to find on any search sites. Had only a flip phone. I could call and leave a message, or email and wait for a response. Totally bonded me with intermittent attention. There was no overt devaluation. The devaluation came in the form of all the implied promises of meeting up, or plans made, only to have an emergency or urgent medical condition. Something was off from the start. This Narc was taking advantage of many unsuspecting empaths and those with vulnerabilities through his work position of trust. Something was amiss from the start. I wish I had seen your articles then, H.G.! This pain, this angst wont stop. I can’t stop checking, and replaying the facts, my scribbled notes written in sobs of confusion. Listening to the phone messages I filmed with my phone so I couldn’t lose them. Reviewing again and again in my head every conversation. I used media all right, to try to figure out what on earth was happening that I was falling apart at the seams. I just didn’t have social media to research my hunches. I went back to the archives of the newspapers where the Narc had lived in the past. BINGO!!!! Everything he had told me about himself was a lie. Every word I told him about me, he twisted his life story to mirror mine. Soulmates to a tee……..No wonder I was never given more than an hour or two with him, I would see the patterns, I would figure out the different tones of voice when the liar was present, or the sexual predator, or the kind empathic listener…..the wise one! I didn’t get the chance to go no contact. The gig was up and he was gone. Pooooooof. Even with a year of trauma therapy I still am obsessed to follow anyone on social media I learned, had a connection with this psychopath. I don’t sob everyday anymore, but I re read all those articles, research what I can, reread the briefcase full of notes and pictures found and telephone records. My true healing came when I read HGs words. A major torture was how did he do this to me, how did he control me, make me do things totally out of character? How did he own my mind and still does? HG, you solved the whys, as I could now see from your perspective how his mind worked. Now if I could only get beyond feeling like this all happened for a reason, and it all is for some growth in my self actualization. I just wish it would hurry up!!! I want to get out there and live life and forget, but the obsessive draw to the web is more powerful than my desire to get outdoors and heal in the sun and nature and get on with the wonderfulness of my life!
A reminder that no good can ever come from a flip phone.
Post-escape and post-disengagement (that was happening all the time, swinging back and forth was the ‘relationship’), narcy invited me to see him. I rejected that request several times and eventually gave in. Seeing him again helped me to get out of the fantasy i had of him, that came out of abandonment triggers and my emotional-projections. I learned a lot, especially after doing my own research and self-work. Essentially, i had grown out of it.
Perhaps that’s what’s good about being a ‘geyser’ – so much relentless intensity and then poof! It’s resolved. I don’t feel dead anymore and i feel stronger / more self-aware than before.
Narcy calls me an evil spy who tries to psychoanalyse him, but i wanted closure and strangely, he gave it to me – he was the one who opened his computer to me (almost wish i didn’t know, but i’m glad i do). He also grabbed my phone to examine it. We didn’t work as a real-life relationship, but once i saw it as the kind of relationship one could have as a kid, it made more sense.
None. When I know – I Go. Met him Several Times. But didnt see him. Not an Empath. Not a narcissist. I am just an intelligent Girl.
I contacted his ex wife weeks prior to leaving and after I moved out of his house and with the urging of the adult children. Our conversations were very enlightening and I found out everything he did to her but worse and for 20 years. It was validating and it was also a chance to apologize to her for believing the terrible things he told me about the ex-wife. His adult children also helped a great deal. They didnt want to see me get hurt and told me to leave and never look back. I did. Immediately after I left the hoovering began, I assume to draw me back so he could punish me but I never responded and only documented. After 2 months of hoovering I secured a restraining order so he cannot contact me until 2022. That feels great.
I contacted the Narcs ex-wife. I waited until I was gone before I contacted her so he couldn’t blame anything on her… I didn’t want to cause her any drama. When I first starting dating ‘Waldo’ one of his kids made the comment that the ex-wife and I would be really great friends if the situation was different….that we are a lot alike. The entire 2 years I was with Waldo she never contacted him for anything or I would not have reached out to her. We are now great friends! I really enjoy our conversations. I don’t have any desire to contact ‘Waldo’ – even though I haven’t been gone that long my life has changed drastically for the better. There is no way in hell I’m backing up now. I was contacted over the weekend by a friend who is having me provide research assistance for a Discovery Channel project! I couldn’t be more tickled with the way everything has ended. Thank you HG <3
Never drove by his house or spied on him. Even though he liked to believe I did in his deluded mind. Dont follow his social media I don’t care what he’s doing. I did report him to NCIS and his scum bag therapist to health services. And I got the hell smeared out of me by both of them.
I managed to impose a strict NoContact with my UGN; still I walked past his door twice, late at night to see what my replacement looks like, and that was all. A year later I simply bumped into him walking at the railway station. I could not manage to react properly, I simply failed to pass him by coldly…A real disaster! And he was so tender, so loving, so filled with remorse …/you know exactly what it is./.And now i dread the minute he’ll start bombarding me with phone calls, messages, etc. But you helped me a lot, I keep watching your videos, I even write things down, with you explaining everything so clearly, I feel better…and stronger.
I am co parenting with the Cerebral Greater, my assumption, so we stay in contact.
My latest, my assumption Elite MRN, I don’t know what happened. He has ended things so often. This time is different with no previous warning nor response to contact. Previously I would call, text, and arrange meetings to get closure, try to clear away the confusion, thank him for all, and let him know what a good guy he is. I never had my objectives met with those attempts. Once I realized a change this time, I have only sent an apology text for things I realized I did that would hurt – not meaning to. The text was more for my peace of mind as I felt bad and needed to take responsibility for the wrong I did.
Both of my answers (drive by narcissist ‘ home & contacting exes) were about protecting myself.
If I went out to an event I wss unaware he was going to and saw his vehicle…I would be able to safely withdraw from said event without undue stress.
The other was about clarification for me was by no means hoping I would reconnect with the narcissist. I found out the narcisdist lied to me about this person and the type of relationship he proclaimed to have (non sexual/friends only) which was indeed a multi-layered and multi-faceted fabrication to incite my “needing to take care of” (or pitying if truth be told) nature. I took pity on the man. And with my desperate need to belong…pity was as good as any reason to build the foundation of a relationship on.
Thank the stars I’m not like that anymore.
I’ve thought about doing quite a few of these but thought better of it in the end. Better to move on and find a real human being deserving of your love.
None of the above. You taught me well in your books Exorcism and Escape! No contact for over 2 yrs. I do get occasional dreams still from time to time that are not pleasant though I know that is part of the CPTSD. Not frequent any more thankfully. I just had one last night. It is a kind if ever presence that one cannot control. So, it is wise, if you wish to start healing, to take care of what one can control (ones own behavior and getting rid of all shared belongings and gifts that you can (sometimes homes, cars are harder to get rid of). I still have a pet, for example. Though all else was trashed or sold or hidden or given away.
I only kept tabs via social media. It also depends on the narcissist. The Mid Ranger blocked me even when we were on ‘good’ terms. As far as the social media whoring Mid Ranger I can be 100% honest and say I do NOT look him up at all.
I had someone tell me he was now writing for some gay magazine which caused me to cry for about 10 mins but even that is 10 mins of wasted energy.
Another narcissist I have blocked but I have checked up his ex-wife just to see what sort of target she was, and she is a lovey-dovey giver type with insecurities.
I have looked up his current fuel source and saw she has mugshots for DUIs. I have them both blocked albeit I do admit to sometimes checking my stats off my public FB page to see if someone from that area has looked but FB stats are shit anyway so that is pretty much pointless.
I did all this a while ago. I don’t care anymore, to be honest. Too busy focusing on myself.
None with my ex. It had nothing to do with knowing he was a narcissist or even knowing what had happened except that talking to him made me miserable, and that he seemed so small to me now. I laughed at him when he last called me and tried to get me entangled again. In retrospect, he was trying to make me into a secondary intimate source — he had a new primary he’d been grooming while hanging onto me.
If I cut off my victim narc father, it would mean losing the rest of my family on both sides. Even my mother’s family thinks he’s a wonderful loving man who’s been unfairly victimized by the world, though my mom divorced him years ago. I’m grey rock there.
I obsessively drunk texted her for months after she discarded me. She acted like I was her soul mate and she would die if I dated someone else and then a few weeks later she was dead to everyone and just coldly broke up with me. I didn’t understand why so I was just obsessively texting her. I got to the point where I told her I’m going to kill myself if she can’t give me closure and answer why she went from adoring me to deadpan in a matter of weeks. She blocked me on Facebook and put a personal protection order out on me even though I never threatened harm to her at all and never went to her residence. So I look like a violent criminal abuser when I have no history of that kind of thing with anyone. I’m still pretty confused by her and can’t figure out if she’s totally sociopathic or just has extreme emotional attachment disorder and sucks at conflict resolution because she’s a coward. It’s frustrating as hell and now she’s acting like I’m actively stalking her still even though I’ve followed the order to the T. I think she might be scared but not sure. If she is scared it’s because she cheated on me or did something bad behind my back so she thinks I might retaliate which I wouldn’t. She knows that I’m very intuitive and smart so I think she’s afraid that I’m going to expose what kind of person she really is because she knows I know she’s a fake. An alcoholic yoga instructor that doesn’t know about natural medicine and fakes self reflection. She’s so good at acting like she’s spiritual and nice but she’s not nice to her target/s that’s for sure. The thing that drove me up the wall the most is the fact that I was humiliating myself apologizing for things I didn’t need to and taking responsibility for all the things I did when I treated her great the whole relationship. She never once admitted responsibility or took responsibility for her actions. It’s driving me nuts
Consult with me and I will remove your nuts. Figuratively speaking of course.
You’re gonna scare him away before I get a chance too.
Drew, in all seriousness, I hope you will consult with HG. He will give you the closure you’re looking for.
Threatening to kill yourself, is an act of violence, actually.
Only 1% on private detective !! If I could go back in time I would hire a PD for all my previous relationships, from the very beginning!!! So much time could be saved!!
All I did was weaken and respond to messages that had come through on my spam.. pointing out his misdemeanors asking him what he thought he was playing at and this kind of thing.. massive challenge fuel..
I also did the same thing when he was at my door trying to get me to get back with him.
but then I stopped answering the door and stopped looking in the spam. I couldn’t change all my number again it was tied up into too many things and I’d already done it once. I just had to use the self control. it was really really hard and when I felt like I wasn’t making it I had HG here. He helped me ..guided me and stopped me from making mistakes.
Today I returned home from Chicago to find that Scott had hired a locksmith and gained access to the master bedroom. It was pick proof, but not locksmith proof.
“It’s my house, my room and now I have a key,” Scott said. “There’s nothing you can do about it. Legally I have the right to be here.” Taunting me, he refused then to give me a key. There was no sense in trying to reason with him. Even with our counselor reaching out to him, reminding Scott of our agreement, Scott will do what he wants, when he wants with no regard for my privacy. He meant to torture me, throw me off balance.
Scott went through my files on the home computer before. This time I discovered he went through my personal files I kept locked in my bedroom. Is nothing sacred? Can’t he allow me one place to be my personal space? No. Now Scott has the key to use anytime he feels like gaining access to me and my room! I won’t stand for it! Not now. Not anymore. Why was he so obsessed with my personal space? I just couldn’t wrap my head around it! It was abuse no matter how you looked at it.
In a panic and angry I called the police. How am I supposed to continue to live in fear with no privacy and no sleep? I couldn’t just pack up and leave, forced to stay in the marital home for the sake of our children with no money of my own. The police came and asked Scott to give me a copy of the key. Reluctantly Scott obliged. I asked the officer what I could do about Scott consistently breaking into my bedroom? He proceeded to tell me, “Legally you both own the house. Therefore, he has the right to access your bedroom, regardless of your agreement. Unless it’s written in a Court Order, there’s nothing we can do.” But one officer did suggest I contact the Personal Protection Order (PPO) offices as an option. I had been there before back in October when Scott hurt me the last time. It was an option I was considering if Scott kept breaking into my room. In the meantime I contacted my attorney – I needed to file a Motion for Exclusive Use of the Home. It was obvious Scott was not going to let this divorce be amicable or peaceful as he repeatedly stated over and over. His actions said otherwise.
(Looking back, I think this was all a part of Scott’s intricate plan to get me out of the house with his constant invasion of my privacy. More on that later.)
Exiled
The following day I removed Scott’s access to all my social media accounts, including Facebook. He went ballistic. In retaliation once again, Scott said he is taking our oldest son, Brandon to Las Vegas for his 21st birthday and our daughter to Miami for spring break. Scott knows I don’t approve, which I stated on record. Brandon had just gone on my birthday cruise, which was also to have been his early birthday present. Lindsey was going to California.
I don’t understand where all this money is coming from? I expressed my concerns while taping the conversation on my phone to Scott. I stated, “these extra trips of yours were not planned jointly nor agreed upon. Therefore you are the one now violating the MSQ and MRO orders as you so often accused me of doing.” Scott just laughed and walked away. The rules didn’t apply to Scott. (And, he got away with it all. Spend now, ask forgiveness later rule.)
Wende
I could not help but remember my father’s, father in laws and exhusband’s way of dealing with anyone locking a door to keep them out. They all three took an aluminum baseball bat and beat the door open. No rage, no yelling just beat the door in, then said something calm in a very menacing way. I liked my FILs comment best. “You must not have been able to hear me knocking.”
Wende
You might want to check to see if he has taken out any credit or loans in your name if he is spending money you cant account for. You should also have a consultation with HG and subsequently your lawyer to assist you in becoming Scott free.
I signed the JOD this past January 2018. And, no, I’m still not Scott free. Going to court again over hidden funds and child custody. He was fired from his job 4 days after I signed the divorce papers. I could have had him thrown in jail a dozen times leading up to that day. But he managed to lose his job all on his own. Now he is moving away (thank God). I only hope I will be truly free – Scott free some day.
I am a Super Empath Super Nova and after two years of trying to save my 30 year marriage, I simply cut off all communication with my husband and filed for divorce. I did this even though we lived in the same house. I walk past him as if he is invisible and simply do not answer when he speaks to me; I ignore his calls, emails and messages. Although we have been granted the first part of the divorce – a Decree Nisi – we still have to go through settlement of assets before the Decree Absolut. The difficulty is that he has plunged us into debt and we are forced to live in the same house for now. One positive in this is that I have been able to find a lot of proof that I needed for my lawyer. Our youngest child is at university and still financially dependent on him and as a result on rare occasions, I have to communicate with him regarding my daughter. I do this only by messages or email. I have also exposed him to close friends and family. I check his devices unknown to him because it provides me with important information for the settlement proceedings.
I have learnt so much now about narcissist/narcissism and I find it fascinating. I can actually read the narc now and the most important part is that the knowledge I gained has removed his mask and freed me from the beast. It has been a long difficult road for me and my children and I anticipate it will get worse before it gets better. I have the element of surprise on my side and best of all I have gotten the answers I sought for many months. I know who/what I am dealing with and that gives me strength.
N came over to prepare food with me at my house and was giving me the silent treatment. I asked why we couldn’t speak and he said he was there to prepare the food and that’s all. Told me I could go to another room until he’s done. I told him if he was going to ignore me then he could leave. He said if he leaves it’s the last time I’ll ever see him. I said, fine. He stormed out saying, Goodbye, Kelly.
It’s been one day. I hope to never hear from him again. I hope to never reach out to him again. That was one year of my life filled with up and down, push and pull bs. These blogs and comments help immensely to see what I’ve been involved with.
I don’t have social media, so it’s a matter of NC through the cell phone.
Do you suppose he’s really gone?
No.
I did the social media thing at first to get answers post discard. Then I followed HGs suggestions and I blocked him on everything. I have no contact or idea what hes doing with his new supply and quite frankly, could care less.
I think getting off that social media carousel really speeds things up in having their influence fade, and for getting to the point of not caring about them anymore. Thats also exactly why most people won’t remove themselves though.
Agreed.
I agree NA. As tough a time as I have had recently, it would have been so much worse if I looked at her social media.
Pale Horse
Yes, remember that their social media is artfully arranged for maximun effect to their victims. To make you want, suffer, and question yourself. None of it is real and no good comes from looking at it. I know youre having a tough time but please dont pour salt in your wounds by looking. Come here instead to remember that you are not alone and that as time passes she will become more and more irrelevant. You will gradually be occupying other thoughts and better things.
NA,
It’s strange but I actually have no desire to look at it. It took awhile to come to that but I realized it would self torture. I haven’t looked at it in roughly three months. I’ve been following the advice you have all given me. I’m getting there 😉
Pale Horse
Great to hear. Proud of you.
NA
I totally agree. It took a bit of blocking and unblocking before I finally got to acceptance. Acceptance that looking at his social media was fuelling my addiction to him. I have finally learned and no longer look at any of his social media. It has been very freeing and it gets easier every day.
Brokenrainbow
Good job. Im sure it was hard, but Im glad to hear that you did and its working for you. As I said in another comment to Pale Horse-they set it up knowing you’ll look and to hurt you in the worst possible way even though none of it is real. Be kind to yourself and stay away.
1. My empath spy reported everything my MMRN said or did during school drop-off and pickup. Although it fed the addiction, she saw him for what he was and that helped me feel “less crazy”.
2. I told his IPPS that my MMRN was a narcissist and my MMRN got really mad at me (ha ha ha) and his IPPS took a couple of days off from work, however, they are still together. Telling the IPPS isn’t recommended but I am happy that I did. I was being selfish and mean…and I enjoyed it.
K
Kudos to you for admitting the real reason you told her. It may help her know that she is not alone or crazy or making things up about his behaviour as time goes on and assist her making decisions in allowing her to eventually leave, so its helpful in that regard, but youre being honest with why you told her, and we cant get right until were honest with ourselves. It felt good to hit back-thats the real reason.
NA
The Evil K loved it! He he he….the IPPS is in devaluation and it is going to be a rough ride, but at least I gave a heads-up. I am trying to be objective and honest about my feelings and motives as I embrace my shadow self.
“When you look at the dark side, careful you must be. For the dark side looks back.”
– Yoda a.k.a green imp
LOL K.
I told IPPS too, anonymously, as I have posted here before – not precisely that he was a narcissist but his m.o. and the crazy things he does. However, I did not send her the screen shots from his stalking me on a dating site or the cock pics he sent me unsolicited, one of which showed his face (though surely she would recognize his cock and his clothes), or the dates/times/places, or my insider knowledge. I could have but I don’t think I was out to embarrass him or to put the nails in the coffin of their marriage. So why did I do it? Not because it was an affair but because it was an affair with a narc.
1) I was super angry at the way he acted post-escape and maybe I was being selfish and mean, but I don’t think I would have done it had I not seen the name of another woman during the email purge. Maybe I was jealous, but I told him to find someone else and we had not slept together in months by then. I had this vision in my head of him as a contagion hopping from bed to bed.
2) IPPS was under the impression that they were happily reconciled after a separation and I wanted her to know to use condoms with him.
3) He lied to me and he lied to her. I had encouraged him to come clean months before. I believe everyone has the right to full transparency and to make their own decisions. We are not children.
4) I was angry at myself for being duped into a fake ‘friendship’ post escape. Had he just left me alone, I would have kept my mouth shut.
5) I wanted to halt the endless back and forth. I was tired and had other things to think about. I had previously written IPPS a letter, which he knew because I told him, so fair warning. I had also warned him that we knew people in common, that I knew his name before I knew he was married, and that of course I had talked about him. I never told him that a friend of mine got hold of records for me that I could not get myself. I could blame the disclosure on that friend! (Not by name, of course.) That is how I got IPPS’s email and their address. I had those for more than a year without doing anything with them and without his knowledge. He did know I knew her name and who she was because I told him I did. He did not know I knew where he lived until I threatened to go to his house if he did not get his stupid ass to mine.
6) I was completely honest with him, he had every chance in the world to redeem himself, and he failed every step of the way.
7) My realization of what he is unfolded over so many months/years. Seeing a woman’s name in his inbox turned on that last little light in my head.
(I just got a long strip of LED lights for my dark kitchen – they are dimmable and a good metaphor for how I learned about MRN – from a soft glow where you can barely see anything to bright light white that exposes every crumb on the countertop.)
I haven’t regretted it for a second even though I have no idea what happened. I would do it again, but better this time because I’d be less nervous (my ET was not completely under control, so I had a friend help me).
It was great to write all of this out, so thanks for the prompt!
My pleasure SMH
Yup, I was super angry, too. I don’t regret it either and, when shit hits the fan, the IPPS can Google NPD and figure it all out.
K, and maybe mine will have the presence of mind to Google some combo of ‘fake online names cheater lying married stalker,’ and NPD will come up.
None of the above. I followed HG’s advise..I got out, and stayed out..of everything and everyone. It’s like working out. Hard to start but, the more you do it the stronger you get.
Krystal M
Good analogy. Relatable.
The reasons I did these actions immediately post escape is primarily because I was seeking answers as to why this happened and I also wanted some form of confirmation, retribution and closure that I had indeed made the right choice to leave him after trying to “fix” him for 5 years, even though he physically abused me, he financially abused me and emotionally abused me as well as cheated on me. Any person in their right mind would have left after the physical abuse started but my Super Empathic ways stopped me from giving up. I thought I could fix him. That is, until I stumbled on one of HG’s blogs in my quest for answers online. Once I realized I was dealing with a Lower-Midrange Victim narcissist I was able to reach my breaking point and I experienced what HG calls the Super Empath Super Nova and that is how I managed to escape…
My reasons for monitoring social media and a few other minor (and unknown to my N) NC breeches are twofold. 1. Protection. When I said my final goodbye, he was moving to another state for a year-long and annually renewable training program. I was legitimately worried that he would move back to my city and hoovers would commence when that year ended. I did NOT want to be caught by surprise. (It turned out: Both of those things came true, though I successfully blocked the hoovers.) 2. Tricking my emotional thinking. I did not find cold turkey NC worked for me. I tried it before and I found he occupied my thoughts MORE then. I essentially use my skill at lying to myself to tell myself the following lie: “He’s not really gone. See, there he is on FB. He’s alive and you needn’t worry about him.” Little by little, I cut every thread connecting him to me and connecting him to my thoughts. It took A LOT of self-discipline, but I found cold turkey NC unrealistically abrupt for me. I really believe if I had gone that route again, I’d have been so starved for him, I’d have gone right back. Social media monitoring, frankly, gave me the space and time I needed to really get away. At the juncture, it is actually the next thread to cut. I’ll be full NC probably within 6 months or so.
I totally get this, Jennifer. I also find the fade out more helpful than cold turkey. The more I learned, the less I obsessed, and social media also gave me the space and time I needed to figure things out. I did not go back to him after my main social media binge – which made me realize that there was something wrong with him rather than with me. We did have contact after that, however. We even spent one morning wrapped in each other’s arms on the sofa. He tried to convince me to return to the FR but two weeks later, after more observations of his interactions with me, I declined. But I did not know about hoovers at the time. It is everything post-escape (when I found this site during his one and only ST) that really sent me over the edge. I no longer look at his social media at all though I did just read our emails (no trigger for me), and I do occasionally look at his family members on FB, where I can’t see much of anything. Again, no triggers. He is not on FB as himself but he does have fake profiles. I’ve blocked the ones I know about and I don’t think about them anymore because I cannot see them. The only triggers for me are some things on this site and my own internal sense of time. Of course I do not see him and he has not directly hoovered, so I have not fully tested myself. But it’s good enough for now. For me, leaving this site will constitute full NC. HG, I don’t think anyone on this site can claim to have fully let go.
I understand your point SMH. As recognised, by engaging here it is inevitable that people will talk about and think about the narcissist, however this is acceptable in order to obtain the information that is provided here. The problem arises where people do not utilise or apply the information and instead continue purely to talk about and think about the narcissist. I must state that there appear to be very few readers who fall into that category, here is not a “wallowing place” as I see/have been told about with regard to other forums. There are also others who use the site to learn more about narcissism in general terms, about me and also my world, progress etc. The key is to ensure that the level of engagement (talking about and thinking about) remains at a low enough level to keep ET low so the tipping point is not reached, but in the strictest of terms, you are correct.
Thanks for your response, HG. You are correct that this is not a wallowing site. I was on one a few years ago but it was not nearly as helpful. Although the person who runs it gave good advice, she did not have your authority, faultless logic, or level of detail, so it was more like a support group than a place to learn. I only think deeply about MRN when I come here (too much because it has also become a place to procrastinate when I have other stuff to do :-)). Also, I am still concerned that he will directly hoover or I will break NC, and I need to keep my LT intact. I almost feel like I cannot know if I’ve fully let go until and unless we are again in contact. But of course I can’t risk it. Every time I’d almost reached indifference, he would do something to get me back on track. Thank you for opening my eyes to all of tricks.
I went no contact, put 1800 miles between us and also “disappeared” …. he was only able to locate me after I discovered he filed for a divorce. I maintained no contact, hired a lawyer to deal with him and remained in hiding. I lost EVERYTHING, as I didn’t participate in the legal fight he wanted. I retreated and gave him EVERYTHING. I am still n/c and under his radar. I do admit to occasional trolling on social media sights of his new wife and family members. I find it interesting and only do this out of my own inquisitive nature… its amazing and strange
I think about him, all the time. And sometimes I romanticize our story. That is when I doubt if he really is a narcissist, or just an emotionally stunted, damaged weirdo. Those are the weak moments. Even though I don’t want him in my life anymore.
The most stupid, weirdest thing I do sometimes, is checking when he was last seen on Telegram. This means I have to save his number again and unblock, to see a time stamp. After seeing the time stamp, I block him again, and delete his number. It’s very unsatisfying I must say. And kind of abnormal behaviour I guess. I’m happy I don’t use social media, it would drive me nuts.
Reading books and articles is helping me a lot. Sometimes I take a long walk with the dog, and listen to videos on youtube. It’s like meditating. 🧘🏼♀️ It puts things in perspective. HG’s videos are actually guided meditation sessions.
Dear Rachel, If you are ever in doubt if he “really is a narcissist, or just an emotionally stunted, damaged weirdo”, please book a consultation with HG. I wondered the same thing and HG pointed out not only that he was a narcissist, but what school and cadre he belonged to. It was well worth every penny because once he was identified as a narcissist, I could read more and move on.
How much did it cost to talk to HG, and how long was you given to tell him your story? I have been debating talking to him about my ex narcissistic psychopath because I need to know by what I tell HG is he truly one of his kind and could my gut be right about him being responsible for some bad things that has happened in his town. Being HG is a narcissistic sociopath / psychopath, he would know exactly what this guy is by the things that I tell him. I just don’t want to habe to believe he could be this person. It’s one thing to habe to believe he’s a narcissistic psychopath but another to believe he’s the one behind the darkness in his town.
Hope to hear back from you.
Kim – HG’s rates for the various consultations are listed at the top. Click either email consultation or audio consultation. Once there, it outlines the amount each consultation costs and the parameters for backstory, how many questions you can ask, etc…Trust me, I have had a few of each and HG never disappoints. He is always right.
Kim, I’m not sure if anybody answered your questions about the consultation. You can find the information about the audio consultation in the menu bar. It is $150 US for one hour of HG all to yourself. You can take the time to thoroughly fill him in on your specific situation. He will stop you for clarification if necessary. You will find his analysis extensive and accurate. Best of all, your gut feelings can be validated once and for all!
Thank you for your reply geyserempath. I’ve thought about that, HG seems to know what he’s talking a about. But, I’m afraid I would feel umcomfortable talking to a stranger. Slightly intimidated. I’m also not sure if I like the idea that he doesn’t care at all. Ha ha! Although it is kind of refreshing to know from the start that someone really couldn’t care less.
Maybe I should.
Rachel
You really should go ahead with a consult. The not caring you refer to is the objectivity that allows him to pinpoint with amazing accuracy the information you require. He is not intimidating at all. The only regret that would ever surface is that you didnt do it sooner.
Thanks NA, I’m going to give it some thought. 👌
I agree with you GE. HG can get you unstuck. That endless cycle of why why why questions can be halted, replaced by logic.
“really is a narcissist, or just an emotionally stunted, damaged weirdo”,
—That is what a narc is ^ ^
I’m no weirdo, thank you very much.
True /iroll, but you have to add a few more ingredients.
I think I know exactly what “he” is. But I’m always a bit wary. I don’t want to put people in boxes, just because I happen to have found an interesting blog and read a few books. It’s much more complex than that.
I recognised so much when reading Red Flag and Sex and the Narcissist. It cleared many of my doubts, but still, I’m not 100% sure that he is not just a selfish, emotionally stunted, cold and distant sex-addict weirdo.
HG, there’s nothing weird about you. 🤐
I know. Good job you do too!
Thank you! That made me smile.
Rachel
*** side eyes and mouths: nice save at the end there ***
NA, thank you for the heartfelt compliment. 😈
There is no ‘none of the above’. But due to divorce proceedings involving tax issues and payment arrangements the n sends emails I reply sparingly w no unnecessary words. I wish there was a way for zero contact . I’m not rich so can’t afford a lawyer that is willing to take over all communication. I hate having to communicate at all it still gives me a queasy dread feeling in the pit of my stomach bcs I will never trust him or anything he says ever again. It’s hard wishing someone would just pass away so you could rest when you have a conscience. Must be so amazing to not have one, no stress life right? N’s live long & prosper bcs life is simplified without conscience .😕
Don’t think any of these apply to me with my Moron in Munich.
With my exhusband I would ask our children how he was doing and if he was ok. Never with any intent of going back! God forbid! But because I worried about him. I didn’t want to ask him myself because it took a few years before he stopped acting maliciously when we were together. No sense making us both more miserable (that was my thinking, might have been fuel for him. lol!).
On second thoughts I’m not actually ‘failing’ so the poll does not apply to me. But it would have been nice for us ‘hardened escapees’ to have a little recognition…😀
🥂 *cheers
XO,
From one escapee to another💃
I haven’t done any of these either.
Hey Mr Tudor, its a pity you did not include a ‘None of the above’ option. I would have selected that. I have zero interest in what or who he is doing. Good luck to her. She is going to need it!!.
I was the IPPS for last 5 years. He hoovered me back after he dumped me approx 5 years before that. I never got over him so was glad when he came back for me 5 years later….little did I know!!
I gave him everything he asked for, gave him my love, my total loyalty and yet it was not enough. After he accused me of cheating on him when HE came back from a 3 month trip abroad, I finally took off the rose coloured glass and saw what his projection really meant. That was the last straw for me. I was done!!
I walked away that evening, changed my numbers and there has been no contact between us ever since. 3 months NC. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
I checked his social media, his families, and friends social media for the first 3 months almost by the hour. After 3 months, several times a day, then around the 5th month it was sporadic for about a month. Since then, yuck. Don’t care. Together for over 8 years and nothing but BS with this POS and finally the hoovers have stopped after 1 1/2 yrs. I am much more valuable than ITS new feeding ground. Last one was a month ago from a mutual friend giving me information on x. Told me about x giving him furniture for x friends new place and about how x does his own thing and new supply does her oen thing. X moved in with new supply just like IT did with me, so I knew what this now x friend of mine was doing and let him know that I couldn’t handle the abuse and had moved on. A week after this conversation with x friend got a prank call referencing a topic that x friend and I discussed about my job. I laughed and they hung up. No calls from unknown numbers anymore!
I voted for monitoring social media and the social media of those he frequently mentions to me (his wife, former coworker, sister in law, best friend)….and I also chose sending emails and other communications to him (not seeking answers as I am on the shelf but more so venting my frustration at being avoided whilst on the shelf)…
Re: contacting the ex. Oh the urge to do that is very strong indeed!
I check his Facebook account to see if there are recent posts, I don’t know why really. I think its because reguardless of how he treated me I really cared and I still worry about him. I just want to see if he is ok.
Stephanie, one of the most empowering things is to not care anymore. When you come to not care about him every bit as much as he doesn’t care for you–returning that coldness, mocking him in his so-called ‘sadness’ –boo-hoo! They hate that! Payback is a bitch.
I am failing, I know I am.
BUT I have still not responded to hoovers and I have not reached out. That’s something. I hold on to that and it drives me forward.
But I won’t lie, I struggle. Yesterday I checked his FB out for the first time in 10 months!
I listen to the songs he’s sent me in a hoover, I should just delete but it’s some how comforting. I don’t want him to hoover, but I do. I’m sick in the head.
I am a bag of contradictions when it comes to him.
He’s ever presence because I am here!
I am fighting with all my might, not to seek answers BUT I WANT THEM! It’s become obsessional in thinking and it’s driving me nuts and I don’t know how to stop the compulsive thoughts!
I am addicted to him, via a distance. He doesn’t know because I don’t respond to anything – I have messages unread on Messenger from random people – I have not looked in case it’s him.
It’s just a mess. The thing is, if he ramped it up I honestly don’t know how long my strength would last.
I fucking loved this guy, I gave everything I had to him, I surrendered to him, I belonged to him, I adored him. It was intense and slow building.
Then he destroyed me.
And here I am, caught between this world and the next … and for how long?
I don’t know how to stop it all.
I want off this ride!
I’m going to the other side of the world solo travelling just to try to get some order, erase memories and make new ones – just explore myself. I let this happen. Self discovery is what the doctor ordered.
Presque Vu I relate entirely to your post.
I got triggered last week due to various circumstances (my birthday, time of year, stress at home, HG was irritated with me) and I held on a few days trying to distract myself, but failed. I texted him.
This time he was cordial and I am clearly in the “friend zone”. Probably he hopes I’ll try for more…but I don’t think I will.
I feel better right now, just knowing that if I want to text him I can….I know it’s a sick “comfort”.
I can relate to what you say about feeling strong one second, then a puddle of a mess the next. The struggle between the two is so tough.
Supernova DE – I, too, am a Shelf IPSS and have certain triggers where I allow my mind to linger on past “good times” with the narc. I know that if I call, text, or email him he will reply and very nicely. If I post on FB, he will like a post. He does not reach out between me visiting every week for 2 hours. There are no more pet names, dinner invites, or overnights and I have moved past those. I take the same “sick comfort” as you do in that I am still painted white. You are not alone. Take care. x
GeyserEmpath,
Thank you! Your reply gave me some comfort, and I needed it today. I actually feel at peace at this time just knowing I seem to be painted white again, on the shelf of course. I was subjected to some hatred after my discard and it hurt badly. I know it was partly the addiction that made me reach out, but I also know my perfectionism just cannot stand when someone is mad at me, it feels like I’m suffocating.
I don’t feel the need to speak to him at this point, I’m happy on the shelf. We will see what comes I suppose, I know I can’t control it. Perhaps now is the time to go NC, when I feel OK about it, and I can have a say.
Supernova DE, I’m not making fun of your post, but I got a chuckle out of you saying that you had stress at home and HG was irritated with you in the same sentence. It sounded like a domestic row. I hope you are feeling some better now.
MB,
Ha! I think if I was in a “domestic” ANYTHING with HG I would be in serious trouble hehe. Those two statements were absolutely not related!
And you certainly didn’t offend me. I am not easily offended. Unlike my MMRN, who it seems feels criticism when I am just breathing, its really becoming quite unoriginal. At this point I see every time in the conversation when he’s taking a backhanded swipe, trying to divert my attention to a new topic, etc. Every time I can go back to the few minutes prior and see something I said which might have felt critical to him. But its more and more ridiculous! Almost comical, I keep rolling my eyes (thank goodness we are long distance and he can’t see haha) and it doesn’t upset me or confuse me like it used to, thanks to HG.
Supernova, do you find that since HG has given you the answers and removed the mystery that “the thrill is gone”? I feel like HG bursted Narc’s bubble of intrigue for me. Don’t get me wrong, I’m very grateful for Tudor U. But it’s kind of the same feeling I got when I found out Santa wasn’t real. Such a let down. Once somebody shows you how a magic trick is done, it’s just not the same.
Wait, Santa is not real? You’re shitting me? Jesus H Christ, that’s it, someone is going to get it now – probably the Tooth Fairy.
The Tooth Fairy. Hahaha, that bitch deserves it for shorting me. Have at her.
You are too hilarious Tudor.
She shorted me too NA! She only ever gave me 50 cents per tooth, even the molars!
Personally, I think it should be the Easter Bunny…those giant bunny suits always have the creepiest eyes…no wonder my kids don’t want their picture taken with him!!!
He was disincentivised last week. Easter eggs will not be delivered next year.
Booo. Can’t tell if this is a joke or a veiled(?) dig at me. Either way, I laughed
It’s a joke.
Sorry to burst your bubble on the whole Santa thing, HG, but turn about is fair play. You bursted my narc bubble. You bring up an interesting point though. What does Jesus’ middle initial stand for?
HGTudor – what else?
I should’ve known what the H stood for! Silly question.
Don’t worry, HG. Santa has to be real. If it weren’t for Santa being real, my kids would never have had gifts put together and under the tree at 2:00 am every year! Their mama was far too lazy and hated to shop too much!
MB,
Yes, this is exactly the case. I hoovered myself a few days ago by texting him. Of course, I had to lie and manipulate and make him think I’m under control to get myself back on the shelf. He is very wary of me at this time, and it took some effort on my part.
I did this for several reasons:
1. Flare of ET and Addiction – I wish I could deny this but I cannot
2. Curiosity (waiting for HG to make a joke about it killing the pussy)
3. Intrigued by his actions and mindset, I wanted some interaction to observe him now that I know what he is
4. Wanting to mend it, so that I can feel like I “did the right thing,” purely for my own mental health. We were both cruel to each other at the end back there, and even though me apologizing means nothing to him, it DOES mean something to me, and I needed that.
I’m curious if he takes it sexual now if I’ll respond like I used to…I’m guessing I might find it funny rather than arousing.
We were friends loooong before it took this intimate turn, and I see no reason we can’t be “friends” now. As long as I can stay detached. If I cannot, I have the awareness now that I can say to myself, “go NC, take the withdrawals if they come, you know they fade.”
I was not IPPS, I have an entirely separate life from him, he is just texts on my phone
Of no consolation, I know. However, just so you know… You are not alone caught in this whirlpool of emotions.
Actually, it feels to me like an actual whirlpool. You feel like you are drowning, struggling for breath, and the madness of (oxygen) deprivation, don’t know which way is up or down, or how to get out.
If you are washed up or make the fight of your life, you are on the side, exhausted and don’t know where to go.
The answers I provided are things that I used to do but no longer allow myself to do. Doing these things did nothing but make me feel worse, keeping my emotions stirred up. I know the answers anyway and did all along but held on to the hope that I was “special”. Please. Actually, I was special. Very special fuel for a time. Nothing more. It’s nice to finally feel the truth in my bones and be empowered by it. It has taken the personal sting away from what happened. Thank you again H.G.
Supernova DE – I feel the exact same way. I am fine knowing I am painted white and happy on the shelf. Keep us posted as to your progress! x
None of them but I wish I had checked their social media just to know who their Lieutenants/Coterie were. I was contacted by one of the narcissist’s Lieutenants who pretended to be my friend and I opened up to her. Big mistake.
Hi Hg, I have spoken to you in regards to my issues. Mine has pretended to be the new girl on social media and bash me and make threats at me and my children for half a decade. I started by demanding answers and it was never answered. Then I was contacted by her, the brother, the mother etc (all him and his fake accounts I’m sure) I monitor and ask my friends to monitor for safety purposes. I listened to everything you told me the day we talked. I would love to forget him as I told you in our chat, but he won’t just contact me himself so I can tell him to be gone and won’t go away. However he knows where I am every second, I’ve installed cameras gotten new accounts devices etc, he still knows somehow. And you thought he wasn’t a greater lol. He knows where I am away, he knows the moment I arrive back, and the only possible way left is my iCloud which means he hacked apple to watch me after ghosting 5 years ago. I no longer harbor a single feeling aside from hatred. And as you know nothing I have ever said or done has changed it. No one will stop him as he poses as her. I’m stuck with this until I suppose he kills me then maybe someone will make a law that protects victims. I have fired comments public ally on social media at times and it fuels him and I know it. When I go silent like now, things happen. My truck was tappered with causing me to crash, can’t prove it nothing happens. He escalates whenever I stay quiet. He threatens and too many unexplained things happen whenever I stay of social media. If I had any advice to give someone at day one, don’t respond to social media insults and jams it’s a set up for a lifelong pathological stalking problem. They make you have to see if there is a threat today. If it never started I think he would have contacted me and then I would have said nope I’m done you stood me up that’s that. By letting myself validate and explain I allowed this behavior and destructive cycle get established.
Tried to seek answers … Now know it is futile… Still hurts …. x
Hi HG. It’s M from Oz. I did weaken and sent a brief thank you for flowers that were delivered…as you would say: my emotional thinking convinced me it was polite to do so. Three weeks on and I’m struggling, but remaining strong and doing none of the above, though in the past I would look at emails ( which was fruitful) . Thank you for your Golden Rules of Freedom; they are so helpful.
You are welcome.
I have never done any of these. I have texted him but not for answers, I know the answers. I know exactly what he wants from me and what he is willing to give me but it’s not enough. I’ve only texted him to see how he is doing. Yes I am still addicted, yes I still love him but I cannot go back to the way it was. He texts me back immediatly and is polite and cordial but after the initial niceties he begins his blaming of me for the relationship not working. After he says his peace, he does not respond to any further texts. I think also, he is waiting for me to beg him to take me back. My heart wants too but I don’t.
I used to monitor his social media awhile back. Now, I really don’t care anymore. Thank you, HG, for all your insights. I don’t need any answers from him about his behavior because you’ve already provided me with the answers.
Correct and that is the best way forward.
How did you get to the I don’t care part. H.G. gave the answers I was tortured to figure out and that started the healing, but can’t move to the I don’t care part.
That really was for you Julie
Newby 1111, if you are referring to I don’t care part regarding the social media. You won’t believe it if I told you that my narc himself helped me to do so! I will tell you how:
– Whenever I was checking his social media profile or search his name in Google, I immediately get anonymous phone calls the second day! These phone calls don’t stop until I stop searching his name in Google! You won’t believe it if I told you that even if I changed my IP address and search his name, I will get the anonymous phone calls!
– Most likely, with the changed IP address, it must be that he is just guessing it is me, he is an absolute computer freak, so he would notice that the activity with the changed IP address is the same, I mean the same name search and the same pages that are checked, so he will know.
– I was formatting my computer regularly, I was freaked out about how he can find out?!! Later I realized that he has no control over my computer whatsoever, the clue was in typing his name in Google, So I stopped typing and searching his name, I can’t format my computer anymore, haha.
Hope my answer helped.
I tried to break off all contact once I was free. Even getting a PPO – Personal Protection Order. The Narc was the one stalking me. During the divorce while living together he invaded my privacy everywhere. I found hidden cameras in the house, recording devices, he hacked my personal files and emails. He broke into my locked bedroom and car dozens of times. He followed me everywhere. I blocked him from all my social media accounts, but he tracked them down through friends and people finder/truth finder sites.
Bloody hell, Wende, that’s hardcore stalking!
What’s your situation now?
Divorced with a PPO in place. It’s still hard and he knows I won’t put him in jail because we all rely on his income to support us. He still follows me and violates the order. The thing is he has a girl friend. He recently got a new job and is moving away – thank god! But he uses the children as weapons and spies.
Excellent job Lisa! I fell into the block/unblock spy trap. Half of me was curious how HG’s info applied to my situation the other half trying to figure out whether or not I was being paranoid.
Unfortunately I have a son with my ex-narc, I do find myself quizzing him on her behaviour and what she says about me
Its an addiction. The only bit of them you can control or keep alive in your life. And it hurts – everything you see and hear. But you cant stop. The anger keeps you doing it. The hatred inside ignites each time you see or hear, To see the fake slimey side chatting to fat thin tall small women leaving the same pathetic ‘look at me!’ emoji’s and ‘oh stop!’ comments on their sm posts. To feel compared to what he is chasing and feel worthless – yet you know you are so much better in looks and person – it matters not to him. Its the supply.
Its consuming of the mind and soul – and deadens the spirit. You stop living and exist. I want to find the off switch so badly. The days without s media and mobile phones were so much easier. People moved on faster and less infidelity took place.
I am stuck on the love/hate seesaw that is Narcissistic Abuse.
You told me this would happen HG,
He seems to have an endless supply of informants both on Social Media and in life. My FB friends list especially. I am having my car checked for a Tracker, since he has an uncanny skill in knowing where I am. He even tried to smear me in a Meet Ups group using a Flying Monkey #fail
Dump your phone. Go to a throwaway prepaid phone. Shut your FB down. Yes, take your car to old school mechanic and computer guys. My mechanic put 4 people on my vehicle. One guy specialized in revenge damge on vehicles. $300.00+ in damage. He knew exactly where to look. Get a locking gas cap. Anyone connected to the narc no how remote…dump them. Just trying to help you out.
God bless you
I work with my narcissist midranger and I was a secondary source intimate partner shelf. Discarded, then escaped. I monitor his car. I like to know if he was at work so I could avoid him better. He has made several Hoover attempts . I completely ignored and saw the wound. As long as I completely ignore him with no reaction he goes away. I have accepted there will always be Hoovers since I work in the same building and anytime he catches a glimpse of me he makes an attempt. I Monitor so I can better avoid him.
None of the above. Gee. I must be learning…!
Great job, Lisa! I hope to be in your position soon enough. Although I answered yes to looking at the narcs social media, I have since stopped for months now. I am simply left with ruminating!