The Errors of the Ignorant


A series based on the comments made by people who fail to understand the true nature of narcissists and the narcissistic dynamic. Whilst these comments may be well-intentioned, they are incorrect, perpetuate misunderstandings and in many cases create false hope, dashed expectations and perilous outcomes.

It is a common response by those who fail to recognise our kind and also have no understanding of what we are and how we operate to tell the bewildered victim that the cure to our odd and unpleasant behaviour is to shower us with love.

Note that here the timing is important. We are devaluing you and therefore you are already on that slippery slope towards dis – engagement.

If, as someone who has been ensnared by one of our kind, you turn to somebody who is empathic for advice to understand what is going on, you will fall foul of their empathic trait of being a love devotee. This belief in the power of love, whilst a good trait in itself, is corrupted to become a burden when it is added to the equation with our kind. This near slavish belief in the fact that love will conquer all ills and overcome all problems results in an understandable, albeit misguided, injunction to apply more love to the problem with the narcissist.

It is not going to work. It is too late.

This is suggested most often with regard to the romantic dynamic between victim and narcissist. The advisor fails to recognise that the temper tantrums, the silent treatments and the name-calling, amongst so much else, are manifestations of the ignited fury of a wounded narcissist and instead attribute them to something else – it does not matter what the chosen descriptions might be because they are wrong. This means that the advisor fails to identify that the victim is in the grip of a narcissist in this romantic entitlement. They also fail to recognise what this means in terms of behaviour and as a consequence they see the application of love as a panacea which will cure all ills. This does not work with our kind.

There is no issue in providing us with more and more love during the golden period. Indeed, this is what we want and as a consequence of that approach you provide us with plenty of positive fuel. All is well. Of course, your confusion and bewilderment begins when we start to devalue you and you cannot understand why it is happening. Thus, you turn to someone else, some advisor, to try to gain answers for these unfathomable behaviours, volte faces and about turns.

The devaluation may occur for several reasons, when in the romantic dynamic between narcissist and Intimate Partner Primary Source (“IPPS”) but in the majority of cases it is because of the failure by the IPPS to maintain fuel at the right level of frequency, quantity and potency.

If you love us more and therefore provide us with more positive fuel during devaluation then there are several outcomes which can occur, but ultimately they all arrive at the same place; failure.

  1. If the problem was that your positive fuel was not stale but you were not providing it as often and as in the quantities we wanted, then an extra push of loving behaviour from you will remedy the problem BUT only for a short while. You will be granted a Respite Period by the narcissist as your positive fuel shines once again and the golden period returns. This may last for a few weeks, perhaps months, but it will ultimately result in your finding yourself in the place detailed at point three below;
  2. If the drop off in your positive fuel was caused by quantity and frequency issues, then devaluation has begun and there is a risk that we have begun the process of engaging with finding your replacement. Dependent on how advanced those searches are and how effective the prospective replacements are responding, even though you increase the frequency and quantity it may not be enough to save you from continuing devaluation, because of the interaction with one or more Candidate Intimate Partner Secondary Sources. Thus, loving us all the more does not work and your devaluation continues;
  3. The problem may not be the frequency and/or quantity but the level of potency. We have, in essence, had too much of a good thing and our familiarity to your potent positive fuel means it has lost its allure. Consequently, by trying to give us more of something we have become ‘sickened’ to, is not going to work. It is like someone becoming tired of strawberry ice cream and you turning up with a huge tub of strawberry ice cream. You will not stop the devaluation. Even if you managed to secure a Respite Period (see one above) eventually the familiarity issue will appear and you will find yourself in a situation where the potency no longer is effective, no matter how hard you try to love us and show that that love and devaluation will continue.

The consequences of this is that advising somebody to continue to love and to show even more love for us are:-

  1. The creation of a false hope that the perplexing behaviour we engage in will end;
  2. Victims will remain in an abusive and misery-inducing relationship for longer than they need to;
  3. Exposure to potential harm – whether it is the physically explosive response of a Lesser Narcissist through to the enduring mind games and psychological torture of coupling with a Greater Narcissist. The risk is increased of some form of harm – sexual, physical, psychological and/or financial arising;
  4. A complete erosion of the victim as they keep giving and giving of themselves, spurred on by this apparent authority that love will provide them with the answer to the issue and make it all good;
  5. A further false hope whereby if a Respite Period has arisen, the victim is conned into thinking that this increased loving has been successful, when in actual fact all it has done is secure a stay of execution and most likely made the eventual resumption of the devaluation all the harder to endure;
  6. The pollution of the victim. At some point the victim will be dis – engaged with and the failure of this apparent panacea of applying increased loving runs the risk of creating cynicism so that the victim feels unable to and/or unwilling to ever try to love anybody else again in a romantic sense.

This advice provided by somebody who is ignorant about what we are is tantamount to saying to somebody, “Stay in the burning house because eventually the fire will stop and you will then be okay.”

If you are in the romantic dynamic with our kind, all the continued provision of your love when the devaluation has already commencedwill achieve is to cause you to be bound to us and it signals to us that there is more negative fuel to be drawn from you because of your desperation to remain with us and to try to apply love to cure a situation which has now become one which cannot be cured.

38 thoughts on “The Errors of the Ignorant

  1. Bubbles🍾 says:

    Dear Mr Tudor,
    You are the most unbiased person here
    we all respect you deeply for that
    Thank you kindly sir
    Luv Bubbles xx

  2. Kiki says:

    Hi Tigerchelle

    Just reading comments and feel the need to say I have found both HG and the other readers very helpful in answering my questions.
    I find the readers very supportive of each other and have always felt great support here.
    HG does answer a lot of our questions in his free time and is very polite and helpful to do so .I have been here about three months and it’s the best place ever for recovering from being mangled by a narc.
    I’m not sure why you think otherwise ?

    1. tigerchelle78 says:


      Hi there…

      As we all learn with narcs, everything can seem all wonderful on the surface often, but its wise to give it time and look deeper. The truth often reveals itself, or rather, we pick up more as time goes by…..

      I am glad you have found a place to heal and recover.

  3. Veronique Jones says:

    I have experienced all the different types of narcissists and the games they play the last one was a greater well educated extremely charming person who luckily I was in a position were a intimate relationship with was inappropriate so he didn’t get all of me and after he questioned my personal life , Information he got from someone else, I told him I I don’t have ironically detached relationships, my gut told me something was not Wright I could tell by the way he looked at me he didn’t really care about it and I’m nobody’s dirty little secret. Pretty much immediately the devaluation and malice started he came so close to breaking me I was a complete mess but he went to far and something shut off my empathy my care factor and I fought with all the years of suppressing my feelings , unfortunately I’m in a place were no contact is not possible so I’m expecting malicious hoovering for the rest of my life however he refuses to see me for now anyway I’m fighting for what I believe in and my god given human rights, he is fighting just to win I don’t fear him or anything else he can do to me the last time I actually saw him he walked past me with his protege looking at the floor defeated I exposed him and his torments , he is my doctor and has a legal obligation to treat me thankfully there are a team so I don’t have to see him and I would be very shocked to see a positive Hoover . iit takes a lot to get me with cruelty I have experience every type of abuse you can think of both of my patients and both of my brothers are narcissists I was their victim in every way and for longer than I care to remember I tried to fix things they were my family and that word was a trigger for me for a long time to forgive and try again I have had no contact with them for years now but still keep attracting narcissists and I’m not sure if I find them or they find me I’m over being treated badly because I genuinely care about people I have only ever let myself trust a few people enough to let them in to my heart because once they are in I find it very difficult to get them out and everything you say about narcissists I can relate to in at least one usually more of my relationships not just with men but with female friends as well
    I don’t consider myself a victim though I see myself as a survivor narcissists only have power when you give it to them and fortunately for me the narcissists in my life don’t know my weakness and no matter how nice or mean they are to me my guard will stay up with them I won’t let them back in . I truly hope we never meet however
    Mr HG Tutor I am grateful for finding your site .

    1. Caroline R says:

      “I’m nobody’s dirty little secret”
      I love this Veronique.
      I want this on a cute pink tank top to wear to the gym, the words just below my cleavage.
      Ha ha!
      Give the somatic Ns something to read.

  4. wounded says:

    While most of the relationship advice I gave was applicable to a normal relationship as opposed to a narcisstic one, thankfully I did not use this one.

    I remember having a heart to heart with the narc when we were “friends” explaining to him that he was hurting her (DLS) by hanging up the phone when I left the room, not returning calls, and leading her on by asking her to move out of state one day and changing his mind the next. He agreed with me and promised to do better. It worked, for a time.

    She would forward me songs he sent to her asking me my opinion. I mentioned that he went back and forth a lot and once flat out told her it was her choice whether or not she wanted more from their arrangement. If not, move on and find someone better.

  5. pascaleshealingjourney says:

    I have experienced this kind of advice from friends. When I told them I was concerned that my partner was in touch with his exes a lot, they told me it was normal. Then I felt like I was over sensitive which made me even more confused and thinking that everything was my fault. When I read problem pages, I am amazed that people don’t have a clue about narcissistic abuse and are making things so much worse for the victim. It’s secondary gaslighting. It is so damaging. Hell is truly paved with good intentions.

    1. wounded says:

      I’m so sorry. While some people do in fact have decent relationships with their exes I would not categorize that as normal. People that fall into this category are up front and open about it, and in a new relationship will be aware of another person’s misgivings.

      I had an ex that I was still friends with that I ultimately distanced myself from out of respect for my (then) boyfriend.

  6. wissh says:

    As it’s now October, I find I’ve been reading and learning about this for almost two months now, and although I feel like I’ve got the basics down I’m also wondering why it’s all been so difficult to grasp and accept. How is it I managed to make it to 60 without encountering a narc? Though the more I read, the more people in my life I’m diagnosing. (Tempted to insert an eye roll emoji.)

    1. tigerchelle78 says:


      Reading is the easy bit isnt it….. But actually putting it into practice, a whole different ball game. I think that’s where the consultations come into their own perhaps.

      I’m kinda happy you’ve managed to make it to 60 without encountering a narc….

      Its a bit of a shock to the system coming here and realising you were not only raised by one, but other family members were/are also and most of your relationships have been with one. Its like where do I even begin? And why? Why? Why? Why? And but that’s not fair, just, right, and many other unpleasant thoughts and feelings.

      Its a bit hard to get your head around it all to be honest. You don’t know where to put your anger first. You are in shock! You literally have to get to know yourself all over again, because what you knew is all wrong.
      The memories from your past or how you thought they went, were not like that at all.
      Your whole life was built on lies, and you do not know what were real and what wasn’t. Suddenly things start making sense but in a very painful way. You don’t want to believe it.

      You are angry at Tudor, because he is one of them. And they have ruined your whole life! What’s worse is you realise you have an addiction and natural draw to them, and you want to surgically remove it from you, but you can’t. You hate yourself. And somehow you are supposed to heal from all this?! Like wtf? So I’m supposed to be all strong and shit, and love myself now and not be a victim right?! Wtf?

      Hang on, I’ll just download all this into my brain, it shouldn’t take a moment. Bear with me….Because now I know all the answers its as easy as pie!


      Excuse me while I literally bang my head against the wall until I lose consciousness!!!!

      1. wissh says:

        Oh I’m definitely feeling fortunate, it’s been life altering for sure, but not all bad and I’ve learned/am learning a lot. My parents were also very abusive, no diagnosis was ever given, but from all I’ve read at least mom seems to be a narc. She’s got dementia now but whatever, there’s never closure anyway.
        Funny, I’m not at all addicted to her and have gone years throughout my life of not speaking to her.
        Thanks for your response. I’m sorry for all you’ve gone through. I know it’s a process but I hope you’re okay today. And tomorrow…..

        1. tigerchelle78 says:


          I’m sorry to hear you parents were very abusive. My mother was narcissistic too but was borderline, and my father a narc, you can imagine the hurtful fights, affairs, the arguments, shouting, leaving etc it was crazy when I was 5, that’s when they divorced and then we lived with my narc single parent dad. My mother had got married to someone else. She Was an alcoholic, gambling addictions, and so forth, then she died when I was 11.
          You are right, there is never any closer.
          Thank you, can just take one day at a time….

      2. Newby 1111 says:

        You said you literally have to get to know yourself all over again. I think perhaps that is a clue as to why we were such easy target when others were not. It is because we didn’t have a self to begin with??
        So many friends, when I describe this calculating behavior say, ” Oh? I don’t think I have ever met anyone like that.” Or, ” If they did or said that to me, I would have been out the door.
        Just grabbing at straws here, but maybe they had a sense of self. They were good just with themself. They didn’t need anyone else to make them feel whole?
        They were not lonely enough to leave a chink in the armor to invite the narcissist in?

      3. WiserNow says:


        You have explained the situation well in terms of how it affects your mind and attitude. It’s hard to just “heal” from years and years of dealing with all of this. It’s really hard to download all of this stuff into your brain and just decide to “be strong” and to start behaving differently and be a different person to the person you have been for most of your life. I completely get your comment.

        In fact, I understand and resonate with many of your comments tigerchelle78. This addiction to narcissistic people and the feeling that you can love and fix them comes naturally even when you don’t want it to. It takes time, focus and no contact and you need to work on getting it to sink in.

        It seems that generally people think that empathic victims consciously “want” to stay in these relationships and that all they need to do is change their minds. These people don’t really get it. Nobody consciously wants to be manipulated, lied to or abused and they don’t set out to have these kinds of relationships because they want to.

        This “addiction” is because of the way a victim’s subconscious mind has been wired from years of what “normal” life was once like. There was no choice. That’s what normal, natural life looked like and what family life looked like and it caused unconscious behaviours to develop in order to live and get along in that environment the best way you could.

        1. tigerchelle78 says:


          “You have explained the situation well in terms of how it affects your mind and attitude”

          Wow, I guess there is a first time for everything…. I’m just glad I managed to explain something well….

          Thank you for saying….

          1. WiserNow says:

            You’re welcome tigerchelle78. It’s true though, I can relate very much to what you’re saying.

            After being on this blog for a while now, I can see from the many different comments that:

            1. Many people recovering from their experiences with narcissistic people have similar things to say and generally explain the same kind of thoughts and feelings. However, everyone has a slightly different way of saying it all and a different way of approaching things. When it comes to the human mind, there are many similarities but also many differences. So, I think it’s pointless and futile to try and judge each other for the different views we have and how we express those views. I think the point is to try and understand and be open-minded.

            2. It’s not easy to “explain” emotion and to convey our feelings in writing so that other people understand exactly what we mean. For this very reason, we shouldn’t really judge each other too harshly for what we write and how that comes across to another person. The words and tone and meaning can change slightly from one minute to the next and the message conveyed isn’t cast in stone for all time.

            So, in a nutshell, if we are all different with unique minds and experiences and it’s impossible to do some kind of mind/energy transfer that would enable someone else to have our exact same thoughts and emotions, then how can we (and why should we) judge each other so harshly?

            Just my thoughts. Anyway, please know that even though you may feel like “there’s a first time for everything”, I’m pretty sure that’s not the case and there are lots of people here who can understand and relate to what you’re saying.

          2. tigerchelle78 says:


            You’ve expressed beautifully in words what I couldn’t express, due to often having extreme thoughts, feelings, and reactions to things….. Thank you truly x

          3. WiserNow says:

            You’re very welcome tigerchelle78 x

      4. Valkyrie says:

        I agree with you tigerchelle78, it becomes like an addiction. You know that it is bad, but you still crave it, against logic. It takes a while for your heart and your brain to get on the same page.

        I still crave the narc, but I know with time and no contact, it will go away.

        I am with you on wishing I could download it and be good. Just gotta go through it. Glad we all have each other on this blog. I have learned a lot.


        1. tigerchelle78 says:


          A struggling person is not a bad person……

          Getting my brain and heart on same page is a continual uphill struggle for me….every day….

          This blog is and can be useful if you use it in correct way.

          I am learning for myself at least that its not a good idea to ask questions in here. I have also learnt that you cannot engage with everyone in here.
          Plus I have learnt that everything you say at any time, will be and can be used against you.

          This is called “narcsite” after all….. Not empathsite.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Nonsense, it is called correcting inaccuracy, not using information against you, that has no place here and does not happen as many, many readers know.

          2. Clarece says:

            Agreed HG! I asked questions daily my first two years here and received answers from HG with patience and understanding and once in awhile aggravation when I once again would engage with JN testing him out, but that was a good thing. This blog is based on questions being asked to encourage the exchange of information and insight.

          3. HG Tudor says:


          4. 12345 says:

            Hi Clarece🙂 Have you been here from the beginning? I’m always glad when I see you’re still here. It’s someone who has gone before us.

          5. Clarece says:

            Heyyyy 12345! You’re back! Yes, as fate would have it, I discovered HG his very first day on 8/31/15, but I think it wasn’t until late Sept or Oct that I was brave enough to make a comment. I had never participated in a blog before.
            How are you? 😀

          6. 12345 says:

            Omg!! That really is so cool😃 You really did go before all of us! Standing on the shore waving us in❤️ I read all the time but I haven’t posted in a long time. Shame on me. I need to be encouraging everyone that finds themselves here.

            I’ve had a setback. Recently learned he’s dying. I fell apart. I was/am shocked by my reaction. Setting up an appointment with HG soon.. All those times I wished him dead…jokes on me. There was apparently something about knowing he was “there” that I was clinging to. I haven’t gone no contact in my heart. I was shocked.

            I felt better the minute I reached out to HG. He was very encouraging when I emailed him to see what my next steps should be. It’s gonna be okay.

          7. Clarece says:

            Hi 12345! Thanks for writing back! I’m sorry about the news you found out. I’m guessing you had the reaction you did because although you got to a place of acceptance of where things stood with him after learning a lot here, that’s still not exactly the closure we ever really wanted to begin with. Now you now what is coming with finality. It’s a hard pill to swallow.
            You shouldn’t feel bad not writing in regularly. I’ve taken respites now and I try not to mention any JN stories at this point because it will just trigger my memory. Unless it can be really relevant to someone’s experience or it adds some levity and I’m able to laugh about it but I don’t want to keep rehashing his behavior in my head anymore. With the exception of a blip in summer where he attempted to reach out and I told him to leave me alone for good again, I’ve gone about 9 months with no communication with him. He has moved on with a new girlfriend. And that’s a wrap.
            I hope you get the advice and consolation you need with your upcoming consult!

          8. Lou says:

            Hi 12345! I was wondering about you some days ago. Glad to read you again.

      5. K says:

        Hello tigerchelle78
        Most of my comments are meant to be helpful or to convey and clarify information.

        If I address you and you feel that my comments are not helpful, please, let me know. I don’t want to upset you or any other blogger unnecessarily. Sometimes when I bring up another blogger’s comment, it is because I am confused and I am trying to understand the way they think.

        It is shortsighted to throw something back in one’s face and I don’t like to engage in that type of behaviour. We are all here trying to figure things out and sometimes we may say something that was misunderstood or that we regret.

        1. tigerchelle78 says:


          You have not upset me. Not as far as I know. But yes I will let you know. You’ve always been helpful.

          I agree with what you’ve said, and unfortunately feeling and being misunderstood comes with the territory of being borderline. But then some understand me, and can see exactly where I’m coming from.

          As you say we are all dealing with different issues, illnesses, and situations, so if I have said something wrong, or misjudged which let’s face it we all can do at times, then please tell me, but in a kind way.

          I do not wish to upset anyone either believe it or not, and if I feel I have, or am in wrong, I will apologise.

    2. pascaleshealingjourney says:

      Count yourself lucky for never having encountered a narc.

      1. wissh says:

        I’m feeling pretty lucky, not only because he’s the first one I’ve personally encountered, but from all I’ve read, that encounter could have been so much worse. Instead, there was at least no physical nor verbal abuse and no financial impact. The rest is just my addiction to him to deal with. Stupid emotions.

      2. Cindy says:

        Tiger and Valk, It’s been over 2 years since I escaped, 6+ months of NC (at the beginning), and I’m STILL the bald lady singing about the dead flowers he planted in our garden. Tried dating…didn’t like any of them. I let the ex narc take me to dinner 2 DAYS AGO!! As friends of course…he has a new gf. How fucked up is that? The reason for this contact was the accidental death of a close mutual friend. I knew when I accepted his invitation to “talk about it” was by far the worst thing I could do. I’m grieving this death, and he can relate, which was a comforting thought to me. I’m making excuses aren’t I? Bet your sweet ass I am! I’m still in love with this demonic, malignant ape, and this was a perfect, logical excuse to see him.
        My head is screaming: “YOU FUCKING IDIOT! STAY AWAY FROM THIS ASSHOLE!”
        I will listen to my head and start NC..again. I KNOW what I need to do. Eliminating emotional thinking feels impossible to me sometimes. He’s the typical mid ranger, apologizing and admitting to everything he’s done to hurt me. Tears bubbling in his once again beautiful blue eyes all the while.
        I feel like a weak, stupid failure. I’m old enough to know better (52 yrs) and have been educating myself on NPD for over 3 years. HG’s articles have cut me to the bone, lifted the fog, made me cry, made me laugh, made me realize that I can never, ever, be with him because he will never ever change.
        My point is, no matter how much you think you know, or how strong you think you are…the love you have for your narc is so different, blinding, unique, and utterly destructive, yet it’s so damn hard to let go and realize they are just an illusion.
        Every horrible, nasty, cruel thing he’s done or said was REAL. Time and distance has blurred this reality. Those things did happen. He nearly drove me insane. That’s the main reason I escaped..I feared insanity. So now I have to start all over. I have to feel the loss, hopelessness and anger all over again. THIS SUCKS! You guys are right, it is an addiction.
        HG, how many times will we nons go through this? Five, ten, fifty years? Just as the narc will possess me (in his mind) forever, I’m so very afraid I will do the same.

        1. tigerchelle78 says:


          Yes, you have got it…. There is nothing like it. That’s because its not love, but a powerful addiction. They tap into a very potent and powerful place within our minds and hearts. And boy do they do it well!
          Because of how they are, they can walk away, and feel nothing. But we are left with all the confusion, damage, and destruction. It does suck big time…..

          But may I please reassure you in the fact that you are NOT a weak, stupid failure! Far from it….
          And I know how hard it is time and time again, to pick yourself up, after contact with them, and then as you say, to start the no contact all over again, feeling the loss and hopelessness, and anger with ourselves for giving in once again. You cannot believe you’ve gone there again, but you have, and from time to time, it may still happen, but that is not failure….

          A calm sea does not make a good sailor as the expression goes!

          Use that anger you feel now and turn it into determination! Write down all how you feel, and why and how you hate him, and put it somewhere for future reference, because at some point in the future you will need to remind yourself of how horrible and awful you feel right now. Practice and read out aloud what they are in the most descriptive language possible. You can even make yourself associate pain with them.
          (In past I’ve self harmed in cutting and then wrote their name in my own blood on bathroom tiles…. but I’m not advocating that or to go to those extremes, you could just pinch yourself, or ping an elastic band on your wrist).

          Read and re-read, listen, to all information here, and in Tudor’s books. Start with small goals. You take one day, then one week, and then one month, and each time you reach that goal, you reward yourself for that, because you know exactly what its taken you to get there! Celebrate yourself….and what you’ve achieved….

          The narcs are the weak ones, because they “stay addicted” and don’t even try to change, because deep down they are afraid…… afraid to face their fears, and their own faults, and demons…. but we face what is difficult, our own faults, our own demons, and we stare them in the eyes, and we declare war, even though we know it will give us pain and heartache to do so. We do that because we are strong, and made of tough stuff! We have substance! We are not hollow and fluff like they are….

          You WILL get past this harrowing time, and get to dry land again. Believe in yourself!

          Kick that Narc’s ass girl!!!!

      3. Caroline says:

        Please don’t speak about yourself negatively.
        You are a real woman who fell in love with someone unworthy of her, who couldn’t love her back.
        As a real human woman (with a healthy heart and mind) given the circumstances with this N and with this timing in your life, there was only going to be one outcome:
        you being here with us, and full of heartache.

        So don’t beat yourself up. It was inevitable.

        1. pascaleshealingjourney says:

          Thank you for your kind words. It means a lot to me. X

    3. Newby 1111 says:

      Sometimes it takes a punch in the gut at 60 by a Grand Narc. to recognize the familiarites enough to realize you have been living with a lessor for 40 years! I am also just a few months into HGs writings. How could I have been so naive?

      1. Valkyrie says:

        Newby1111, I am in a few months too. I totally understand and relate. I sometimes compare it to being punched in the gut or stabbed or shot. I used to tell my NX that he shot me and gets mad that I am bleeding everywhere as he left me in the corner and ignored my pain.

        The feeling of being naive is common. I consider myself pretty savvy emotionally and intellectually, but boy did I get sucked in! I saw red flags and rationalized them.

        But we are here now. You know. You will learn and grow and get stronger. Welcome to the club. Happy to have you here and I am sorry for your hurt. ❤

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