Let’s Talk About Ex Baby


When you entangle with our kind in a romantic dynamic it is very rare indeed if you do not find yourself hearing about our ex. Whether it is the ex-wife, the ex-boyfriend or the ex-partner, the subject of the ex is one which will appear with considerable frequency. Indeed, you may not even meet this person but you will feel that you know them almost as well as you know yourself, the amount of time we spend talking about them to you.

At the outset of your ensnarement, it is highly likely that we were already in a romantic relationship with somebody. You may not initially be told about them, we may reference them because we utilise their existence as a magnifying factor to increase our opportunity to draw fuel from you and to bind you to us. It might be that their existence is referred to once you are ensnared, when we instinctively realise that you will not back away or we may refer to them almost as an afterthought when we have dis -engaged from them and made you the Intimate Partner Primary Source.

Whether we tell you the truth that we are married or we keep the existence of a significant other until afterwards and then we fudge precisely when we broke up with them, it is not a matter we consider as especially relevant. What matters to us is that we will keep telling you about them.

During your golden period, be it when we have targeted and seduced you or when we have embedded you, the ex will be painted well and truly black. We will tell you how this person is a truly terrible person. The immediate ex (or he or she who is about to become the ex) is the person spoken about the most, but other exes may well make an appearance too, especially if we want to portray ourselves as a super hero for enduring them or poor done to martyr. The ex or exes will attract one (or more) of the following labels:-

  1. Crazy Bitch – she is wild, unpredictable and clearly cuckoo for coco pops. We tried to help, to be understanding and make them see that there was something wrong with them, but despite our best endeavours she just could not see it. She had no insight and whatever we did was thrown back in our faces;
  2. Controlling Ogre; – he never let us do anything. Always checking where we were, who we were with, what we had been doing, we felt like an tracking device had been placed on us and everything we wanted to do was a battle beforehand;
  3. Addict – whether it was drink, benzos, weed, expensiv shopping habitse, gambling, junk food, it did not matter, this person had a terrible addiction which of course we tried to help them with but they would not be helped;
  4. Jealous Lunatic – he was always accusing us of having affairs, seeing other men, flirting and being obsessed with the attention of others;
  5. A Narcissist – the ex was definitely one of these (we might have read about it and it sounds good or the ex actually called us one so we threw it back in their face) and this meant he or she was an awful person to us, oh the stories we could tell you about this terrible condition and indeed we will;
  6. Violent Abuser – he or she would attack me, I had to call the police so many times to deal with them, a passer by once had to rescue me after he started to punch me in the street, I am a big fellow so I can handle myself but it was still unpleasant to have someone you love kick you in the balls
  7. Obsessed – she just would not give me any space to myself and even now, even though I have told her that it is over, she will not leave me alone, I don’t mean to frighten you but she is probably stalking me at the moment, she just cannot seem to accept that it is at an end
  8. Criminal – he was up to all manner of criminal enterprises, stealing cars, selling drugs, burglary, it was just too much. I don’t know why he did all of this when I was earning enough money for the two of us but he just kept going and in the end it was too much when he tried to get me involved;
  9. Addams Family – she was just odd. Her family had to be with us all the time. We moved in with them to save rent but then when we finally got somewhere of our own, every time I got in from work some member of her extended family would be there and it was like there was always at least three of us in the relationship and well, I am sure they were just a bit too loving and close if you know what I mean.

There are plenty more of labels which I am sure you can add. The fact is however that you will find we will talk about this person with daily regularity, treating you to the latest anecdote about this person’s aberrations and anomalous behaviours. You receive a forensic examination of what this person said and did as we recall it all in such detail that you can see it all in your mind.

This harping on about the ex of course is done for several purposes:-

  1. Drawing sympathy from you over how we have been treated;
  2. Appealing to your empathic traits to soothe us, help us and love us after this awful experience;
  3. Appealing to your desire to outdo your previous competitor by showing you are a far better partner than that person and thus in turn we gain more benefits from your increased desire;
  4. Making us look like a good person to have tried to help the ex;
  5. Making us look like a decent person to have persevered;
  6. To cause you to dislike the ex so that you will respond in a hostile manner should your paths cross with them;
  7. To ensure the ex has no credibility if they attempt to go down the route of trying to warn you about us;
  8. To create a ready excuse for any poor behaviour we might exhibit should the mask slip (“I am sorry, it is clear I am traumatised after how Kate treated me.”)
  9. To draw fuel from you in terms of your sympathy, your anger, your hatred of what that person has apparently done to us;
  10. To support the smearing which we will have done as we prepared to dis-engage from that previous IPPS.

At first you will be pleased to hear about these daily bulletins briefing against your former competitor as this will serve to quash any fears you may have that we might go back to them or that we might succumb to an approach by that person to win us back. The more you hear us pour scorn on them, the happier you feel and the more secure you become. We will talk about them as we secure your allegiance to us, always reminding you of this spectre that promises to be the ghost at the feast.

Once you have been embedded then often we will then cease to talk about them because we have effectively deleted them from our mind as a consequence of the embedded golden period we are now enjoying with you. However, if there is reason for them to keep appearing in our sphere of influence (the ex keeps contacting us to understand why we dis-engaged from them, to sort out the return of property, to attend to child contact arrangements, to address matters appertaining to a divorce) then we will keep mentioning them. We will have no interest in engaging with this individual because we want to consign them to history but if they keep appearing then we will keep mentioning them for the purposes of drawing further fuel from you, by referring to the She-Devil or the Ogre.

Accordingly, the daily bulletins, smears, insults and so forth about the ex will follow this pattern:-

  1. Extensive mention as we start our seduction with you as the soon to be ex enters the final stages of devaluation;
  2. Continued mention once you are embedded if the ex appears in our sphere of influence;
  3. Mention effectively halts once ex stays out of way and the Embedded Golden Period commences.

Reaching point three however means you will have experienced plenty of discussion and observation about the ex as everything has been picked over in minute details. If there was a word cloud for this period of time between you and us, ‘you’ and the ‘ex’ would rival one another for primacy.

Yet this frequent mention of the ex is not yet over.

Once your devaluation as IPPS begins then the ex (or other exes) will start to be mentioned (or mentioned again) but of course all of the slurs, smears and insults will have been wiped away at this point because now the ex (or exes) will be seen in a ‘white’ light compared to your position in a ‘black’ light. Accordingly, you will be compared and contrasted to this ex on a daily basis and in the following ways as they are referred to in some or more of the following ways:-

  1. The Only One – she was the only one who truly understood us and how we want her back;
  2. The Super Sex God – he was dynamite between the sheets and you long for that excitement once again, compared to the damp squib we are now with;
  3. Mum of the Year – she is so good with the children, far better than you Wicked Step Mother (of course the children may well back this up either because they truly think it (hardly a revelation) or they have been manipulated to think this way by us);
  4. Domestic Goddess – she had this place shining and tidy, great dinners on the table and always looked great. Look at you, you are a mess, you cannot cook and this house is a tip. What have I done?
  5. Cash King – boy he worked hard, brought in good money and looked after me. What do you do? Nothing or you have a poorly paid job (compared to him).
  6. The Saint – she would never have treated me like this, you conned me into going with you and luring me away from such a wonderful woman, I hate you for it.
  7. Clean Living – he looks after his body, eats properly, doesn’t drink much and look at the way you go on, eating junk and smoking (you ate one burger in the last six months and smoke maybe two cigarettes a day – but it does not matter because split thinking has manifested once again)

Again, there will be many more labels for the person who once was the Devil Incarnate but is now Back On The Pedestal. To compound matters when you try to point out how we labelled them and referred to all of the ex’s awful behaviours, we will accuse you of making things up, being jealous, projecting your own behaviours and so forth which will leave hurt and utterly bewildered as to what on earth is going on.

We will talk about going back to the ex which will leave you dumbfounded when you point out that this person has done awful things (according to us). We will deny they have, euphemise their impact or refer to the fact that the ex has changed (of course this then alerts you to the fact we have been engaging with them behind your back which is often the case as we hoover them). If the ex is responding to our hoovers and is being seduced once again then of course you know what is happening to you when we speak with them don’t you? Yes, that’s right, we are giving you the labels we once gave to them as we talk about how we have been conned, how we were misled, how the new IPPS actually told us lies about you and we were taken in by them.

Never our fault. Always somebody else’s.

Triangulation is a major part of the narcissistic dynamic. It allows for two strong fuel lines, it causes parties to fight over us, it makes them work harder to keep us (or draw us away) when they perceive there is a threat. It is an excellent manipulation which delivers time and time again.

Accordingly, we love to be able to talk ex,baby.


63 thoughts on “Let’s Talk About Ex Baby

  1. trocadero says:

    Oh that ex stories I had to listen – bragging about sexual experiences he had with them, the size of their boobs etc – yuck. At the time I thought it was only because I am a lot older than him and that he was feeling the need to look like enough experienced to me – but still… he even told me one time that he thinks a lot about all of his exes, than when I called him out on that by saying that I can’t chat anymore since busy but that I am not worried for him since there is a lot to think about (all these exes), he ”clarified” that he thinks of them only from the point of view of ‘what he could have done better”, not in a love way 🙂 now it all makes so much sense..and the nicknames as well – for each one (including me) he had a nickname and it was never bizarre to me until I read here that it is also an indicator of us being appliances…at the time I thought it was cute!! I even found one message on instagram him hoovering one of his exes – before I was entagled with him but long after they broke up (at the time I didn’t know it was a hoover but something didn’t make sense- why making sexual innuendos to an ex by tagging her on instagram?now I know…) He has almost all of his exes on social networks, which I also found strange..we were never connected not I wanted to be (now he is blocked completely so I don’t even get to see him in common friends posts) but it was always suspicious to me – I never stayed ”in touch” with my exes – 1/out of respect for my next relationship and 2/why would I? Even if one can make it to be friends with once ex, it’s impossible to have them aaalll as ”friends” later…so many red flags…when I was sarcastic with him on this, he was saying that it only shows his maturity and respect for the exes hahaha.

    1. wissh says:

      That’s one area narcex was different. He had a Facebook with 180+ friends and family, including exes, but it’s completely locked down. He doesn’t post on it, no one else can post on it, nor have I seen him post on anyone else’s, he says he rarely used it, but that’s a lie, I saw him logged in everyday, though not for long, so I’m guessing he only used it to read whoever he was interested in (not me, he never read mine even when we were together) and maybe to read/write in his family group. His main online presence was constant use of dating apps.

    2. trocadero says:

      I also think mine used dating sites as well, though he never admitted – you know how it crossed my mind? he has shown me some mail ads for dating sites for older women he is getting, by joking “look what you did to me :D” -and in fact due to the business I am in, I know how it works – if you are visiting some sites often, you will get similar ads on your mail (data science thing, they have algorithms for making statistics and target groups for a specific content) – I wanted to say to him at the time – how come I get the same kind of ads but for children’s health, travels etc (my most frequent search on the net) and you get dating sites ads 🙂 I never asked of course, but it was a red flag along with many others that I never revealed to him but they definitely increased my guard…

  2. trocadero says:

    HG, I don’t know why my question posted twice never made it to be published – I suppose some issues with WordPress…so here it is again. When we go NC, we empaths suffer an abstinence crisis related to you as a person and you alone – now, if I understand well the concept of fuel, you don’t feel anything similar on the fuel level of course – like craving OUR fuel and ours alone? If we have escaped for example, and you have other (potential) sources or sources already in place it would’t matter that it’s not OUR fuel as long as it’s fuel? In our case, we cannot just replace you with another man in our hearts and stop feeling that addiction to YOU, but for you, fuel is fuel – no matter who is the supplier? I hope I am explaining myself well… I was wondering these last days whether he has the same abstinence crisis like me, but on the fuel level – missing the particular fuel I was giving to him..

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I have your question Troacdero, it is in moderation (long posts, posts that I wish to consider and.or posts with questions may remain in moderation for some time dependent on my available time to address them).

      1. trocadero says:

        OK, thank you for clarifying HG.

      2. Trocadero says:

        I’d still appreciate if you could answer to it at some point,I feel like I’m missing one part to make the puzzle complete,in spite of everything I have read and understood..thank you in advance!

  3. WhoCares says:

    “Sorry I fluffed it
    Luv Bubbles xx”

    “Ps … I’m quite partial to a bit of salami myself 😂😂😂😂
    Luv Bubbles xx 😘”

    “Bubbles”…the ‘fluffer.’

    Yep, Persephone in Sunlight – joining you right there in the gutter…

    1. Bubbles🍾 says:

      Dear Whocares,
      You gals are deliciously naughty 😉
      I’ll leave the “salami slicing” to Mr Tudor 🤣
      I’ll bring the frenchstick n vino 🥖🍷

      Luv Bubbles xx 😘

      1. brokenrainbow says:

        Being deliciously naughty keeps getting me into trouble! Ha!

      2. WhoCares says:

        Bubbles – couldn’t help myself…loved your youtube link. Glad you have a sense of humour! 😉

  4. brokenrainbow says:

    I was in a relationship when I met my ex narc. Although I chose my ex over the relationship I was in he never let me forget my choice. At the time I thought it was jealousy but I now understand it was triangulation. After my last escape he sent me many emails. The last four emails my ex constantly referred to my last relationship. The interesting thing was I recognized it as triangulation as I had previously found HG and Narcsite. Instead of feeling upset by this I started to laugh. I laughed because I saw through his email from start to finish.

    HG your work is extremely important. Thank you. It is critical that people start learning more about narcissism and the effects it has on all types of relationships. I admit because of my Borderline Personality Disorder I try and look at it from a different viewpoint than most people. I try very hard to remember that Narcissistic Personality Disorder is just that. A disorder. A disorder similar to mine but with critical differences. This only works when I am not in emotional mind. When I am in emotional mind things go to hell in a hand basket quite quickly.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you BR.

    2. tigerchelle78 says:

      broken rainbow

      I think I’m in “emotional mind” a lot of the time, but when I do manage to get into “Wise mind”, it feels like I am a totally different person. I see things differently, and my perspective is different, and things are obviously more clearer and I can judge better, but it never lasts as when I go back into “emotional mind” again, I’m making often the same mistakes.

      This is the most frustratingly difficult illness there is. People say you are like this one day and like that another, and its like yeah, try living like this…… Its hell!

      Do you find this difficult to deal with? Do you find you struggle with consistency?

      I literally go from wanting to give up to feeling like I can handle it all, one extreme to the other. Its torture….

      I will look out for your comments now….

      1. brokenrainbow says:

        tigerchelle 78
        Yes this disorder is incredibly difficult to deal with and to learn how to manage it. I struggle with regulating my emotions and impulse control the most. I detest it when my emotions change quickly. Most people do not understand how I can be euphoric one moment followed by despair in the next moment. Since I started Dialectical Behavioral Therapy my life has been on the upswing. I am learning more about myself and working towards a life worth living. I am learning to be in Wise Mind more instead of living in Emotion Mind. I have many triggers but lately my ex has obviously been forefront. If I cannot get out of Emotion Mind I walk away from any social media. I have to walk away from the blog as well because I can’t always handle it. That is why you normally do not see daily comments from me. I learned the hard way that my intense emotions can have a negative effect on interpersonal relationships. I also learned when I am angry (or triggered for whatever reason) it is best I do not speak to anyone. That includes social media and anyone in my life. I turn my phone off and focus on other things. I had spoken to you about this therapy in a different comment. I know you answered it but I have no idea what post it is in. I think you said you could not get therapy in the UK. Is that what you said? I live in Canada and while I waited to get into the program I am incredibly grateful to be a part of it.

    3. Bubbles🍾 says:


      1. Bubbles🍾 says:

        Mr Tudor,
        So sorry, please “abort” ….it doesn’t work …. thank you
        the dhttps://YouTube.behU01L7Jzqcear

    4. Bubbles🍾 says:


      Luv Bubbles xx 🤣

      1. brokenrainbow says:

        What were you trying to post Bubbles?

      2. brokenrainbow says:

        I liked that video. It made me giggle.

    5. Bubbles🍾 says:

      Dearest brokenrainbow,
      “when I am in emotional mind things go to hell in a hand basket quite quickly”

      I was trying to be “uplifting” and relate with a ” funny” you tube video of a chappie shopping and saying “this is going straight in my basket”

      I try to always look at the positive and brighter side as “good” things can go in a hand basket

      Sorry I fluffed it
      Luv Bubbles xx

      1. Bubbles🍾 says:

        Dearest brokenrainbow,
        I’m glad you giggled … that was my intent .. haha
        Next time you “shop”
        “That’s going straight in my basket” 🗑
        Depends which basket 😱
        Luv Bubbles xx 😘

        1. brokenrainbow says:

          Ha Ha!!!!! Giggling is always good but maybe I need to have some extra large salami. Ha! I haven’t had sex since I left my ex. Damn him!!!!

      2. Persephone In Sunlight says:

        I am literally laughing out loud here!

        But I’m such a perv: ‘Extra large salami!!?? That’s going straight in my basket!!!’
        I can’t stop laughing and my tummy hurts!!!!

      3. Bubbles🍾 says:

        Dear Persephone In Sunlight,
        I know right …. it’s such a hoot …glad you got a kick out of it, nothing beats a belly laugh
        Every time I’m out shopping with Mr Bubbles or my adult kids, we always say it 🤣
        Ps … I’m quite partial to a bit of salami myself 😂😂😂😂
        Luv Bubbles xx 😘

  5. Anm says:

    I find it interesting HG, I do not pay attention to my narcissistic ex’s love lives. I remember reading your advice years ago, where you stated to focus on your own recovery and defenses, and let them do their thing. There was one event this week that triangulated everyone in my mind for a moment…..
    I have two children from two different narcissistic men. One is a Cerebral Midranger, and the other is a very malignant one, that I am starting to believe is an Upper Lesser. I used to think he was a Greater because of his success, income, and calculations. However, as time goes by, I am realizing he isn’t that smart, doesn’t have tact, and uses a lot of intimidation-this could also be because he is approaching 50, and not his cute younger self.
    I get along 50% of the time with the MMR ex, even though he is a coward and a liar. The malignant one and I have been in a 2+ year custody battle. To save money on attorneys, I have been gathering my own evidence , and subpoena records on my own for my attorney to use. I recently gathered the files from when my malignant ex called Child Protective Services on me last spring. When they started questioning me, I made the ballsy move of encouraging them to do a thorough investigation on my whole family. It did shame me a bit to be investigated, but I think ended up being beneficial. I’m reading the reports, and the investigators said positive things about me, despite being cautious about the accusations.
    Something stuck out at me: I noticed that whenever an empathic family member was being questioned about accusations against me, they were almost shocked and didnt know how to respond or answer questions about the accusations. It almost hurt my case. When they interviewed my Cerebral MMR ex, about my coparenting abilities, he literally made the report go far into my favor by stating I was amazing. He sounded believable because he said that some of the accusations were true, but from my teenage years, LONG before I had kids. Even though what he was saying was true, I was lucky to be on his good side “seen in white” during this time.
    Then I read what they said about the malignant ex in their investigation. They didnt say much good about him. He doesn’t even have that good of a support system. His new girlfriend was interviewed to be a witness for his parenting skills. She said so many disparaging things about me that were untrue, and in detail like she knew me well, but the crazy thing is, I have never met her. It makes me wonder if she herself is also a Narcissist, because I can’t think of why an Empath would speak that way. I’m still not curious about her at all, but I pray that my ex is not bringing a female narcissist around my child. They are the worst.

  6. Blank says:

    N-ex husband is dating his ex (the girl before me).
    When we had sex the first time he called me her name. It was embarrassing, but well, I could imagine this accidentally happening, so..
    (I now realise this may have been a test)
    Whe I asked, he told me the name was of his last ex and he said she was crazy, he could never have had a proper relationship with her.

    Later he told me she was good fun because she once ran in to him and another girl and she just sent the new girl away. N-ex did nothing but amusingly watch the show. He then told me, if there was an ex he wanted back, it would be her. (I guess my devaluation had started)

    Even later I discovered he and she were together at the time I started dating him, so they weren’t ex’s at all. One time when I was at his place, I heard a woman at the door, shouting and slamming the door. I had no idea what was going on, but he told me it was his ex who was going crazy… silly woman. I did not think too much of it at the time, but now I understand what was going on.

    So, this ex is a woman who never had a job, sometimes does some creative voluntary work, but spends almost all of her life going in retraîte, attending mental health programs etc.. to deal with the abuse she suffered in childhood and after.
    I try not to think about her, because my heart breaks when I think how she is possibly very happy to be back in his grace (the man that can not love nor will care about her one iota). I guess for some people there is no hope :'(

    1. amanda SNapchat says:

      congrats on getting out 😀 Use this time that he is with her to escape 🙂

      1. Blank says:

        Hi Amanda, you’re new here I think, so you don’t know, but I have divorced him last December (after living seperately for 3 years). He is the father of my children and lives next door. We are okay with the situation now. I can handle N-ex, now I know what he is. Thanks Amanda!

  7. amanda SNapchat says:

    I don;t know why triangulation bothers me to much. It angers me. Maybe because it now seems so manipulative. I also feel angry at the people playing in on the game and used as pawns to upset me.

    I however learned recently something very valuable. You can use the fuel you would have given the narc in anger to build amazing things 🙂
    My greater narc has been triangulating me. Right now not even with women but with other people in my professional world so I feel lame.

    Anyway I would have had a reaction from everything he was doing. I t still pisses me off. But…I decided to use that energy to build. I transmuted it. I just build something super impactful at a national level. I cannot even believe i was able to do this. Seriously.

    I think a really good thing you can do with narcs is don;t give them your energy, your fuel. Transmute it and build impactful things.

    What do others think? has anyone experienced this?

    1. Caroline says:

      Amanda S,
      I found your post interesting. Thank you for sharing some of your thoughts.
      I have been thinking about when people die, and about one painful aspect of loss of someone you love (including pets, come to think of it). When they’re gone, the person who is bereft still has ALL the feelings and emotions, and desire to care for that loved one, but nowhere to direct that emotion.
      It creates an enormous amount of emotional pressure, and one great way of releasing that pressure is to do something good for someone else. To show someone else love, and have it appreciated does help the pain.

      I’m pleased to read of your success with directing your energy towards a practical project that benefits others. Well done!

      Well done too, with starving your N of fuel.

      For myself, I love to give time, attention and encouragement to the great teenagers and young adults I meet, and I treat them as I’d like to be treating my sister’s children (but can’t, because she is an abusive victim-N with whom friendship is impossible. Plus she constantly emotionally blackmails me with them, and triangulates me with her husband). I find it satisfying to be able to be good to others in a small way, it eases the pain of loss. It eases the pain of not being loved by the N.
      I wish you further professional success, and much personal happiness.

      1. amanda SNapchat says:

        Thank you very much <3 I also found your story very inspiring. I really liked that you connected it with death. I had not thought about it. You are right there is a lot of energy that is released when u loose someone that u can trasmute into something positive.
        I am still learnign, but I think its very powerful if we can learn to direct our energy into positive impactful things instead.

        In my case, I used the triggers that my narc was doing against me to build. My narc I believe is a greater. He is famous and there are many pictures of him online. There is a pciture of him with another famous politician. The woman is yelling at him, almost ready to hit him. I thought that could have very easily been me. He was clearly loving all the fuel this woman was giving him thoiugh his anger. Thanks to HG's writing, we can understand that it is all about stealing our energy, our fuel.

        Let's use those triggers for building great things instead of feeding narc 🙂

        Thank you all for the great community and great writing and contextualization HG.

  8. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

    Listen to the lyrics….


    “It just felt sooooo good”…lol

    She really amuses me…..

    1. amanda SNapchat says:

      whoa! I love this song!! \o/
      I feel taylor is a narc though? But I like singing this 🙂 Very empowering. Thanks for sharing

      1. MB says:

        “I never trust a narcissist, but they love me.” “Why does it feel so good?”

        HG knows the answers to your questions T Swift. HG knows, and he shares.

    2. MB says:

      DHQ, Taylor is my girl! Love her! It kills me to think she’s on team N. So many of her songs describe the N dynamic. “White Horse”, “I Knew You Were Trouble”, “Dear John”, and so many more! I’ve found comfort in her lyrics over the years. After I found HG, I figured she had been Narc bait due to the circles she is in, not the narcissist. I still want to believe that. Magical thinking? Maybe. I will decide once I see HG’s forensic analysis on the chick.

      1. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        I’m not gonna lie…she’s a guilty pleasure…shhh🤫🤪.

        The sequence of my relationships as told by Taylor…. lmao. Lyrics on point for each one.

        1. “Ready for it” or “trouble”
        2. “End game”
        3. “ call it what you want to”
        4. “So it goes”
        5. “I did something bad”

        MB – give it a whirl lol what do yours look like lmao gimme a sequence with songs ha

        1. MB says:

          Dr HQ, I’ve only had one intimate relationship my entire life! Virginity lost to my now husband at age 13. I’m 45 and still with him! Lotsa stages in this relationship, but not the stuff of Taylor lyrics. Most of my “relationships” outside of that have been “crushes”. Out of 10 of those, 7 were Narcs! Unrequited love… they didn’t even know I was alive. Turns out it was lucky. So for all of those, “Teardrops on My Guitar”.

          The one that brought me here. Never been physically intimate with, but NISS for 2 years (when he didn’t know I was crazy for him.) IPSS for 6 months, disengaged for 2 years, then hoovered for long distance SIPPS for going on 3 years. Long time. MMR Elite. 700+ mi away. Goes like this:
          1. Enchanted
          2. The Moment I Knew
          3. Come Back Be Here
          4. All You Had to Do Was Stay
          5. All Too Well
          6. Clean
          7. How You Get The Girl
          8. This Love
          9. Begin Again

          Yeah, I love me some Tay Tay. Her songs are the soundtrack to the narcissistic dynamic.

      2. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:


        Lemme clarify lol – those are the stages of how the situation unfolds…

        Stage 1. Ready for it or trouble
        Stage 2. (You get what I mean) lmao

      3. windstorm says:

        I like Taylor Swift, too. “22” is my favorite driving song. But my favorite TS song Is “Blank Space” and I think that says it all.

        Pretzel and I disagree on that one. I think it was a glimpse of personal honesty, he thinks she meant it as a parody of other people’s criticism of her. Whatever her conscious motivation, I think it hit the narcissism nail on the head. The video for “Blank Space” always cracks me up!

        1. MB says:

          WS, my son turned 22 in May and we played that several times at his party. There really aren’t many of her songs that I don’t like. The only one I can think of right off that I don’t like is ‘Speak Now’. I agree with The Pretzel on ‘Blank Space’. I think it’s a parody of her critics opinion of her. I like the video too because of the yummy guy candy in it. There are so many of her songs I love, but Red is my favorite album and Begin Again is my favorite song. Yeah, I’m in her fan club.

          1. windstorm says:

            I like the Blank Space video for how it highlights the insanity of narc actions in a relationship. My favorite part is when his suit coat comes sailing out the window, shredded and on fire! 😝

            Those guys don’t appeal to me. I like them Blonde and cheery – not dark and smoldering.

          2. brokenrainbow says:

            windstorm, Dr HQ, MB, Clarece, Amanda Snapchat
            I am unfamiliar with most of Taylor Swift’s music as I mostly listen to non mainstream music. I am familiar with Blank Space so I watched the video. Oh my. What an awesome video. I loved how she cut up his clothes and the suit coat on fire is sweet!!!

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Projection at its finest by TS.

          4. MB says:

            You don’t know how much I hate it that she’s a narcissist! Have you started the article on her?

          5. brokenrainbow says:

            I was wondering if she was a narc. I figured her dating history was one telling sign. I could be wrong though as I haven’t been around the blog as long as you.

          6. MB says:

            There’s another MB on here the last couple of days. She may be the one talking about dating history?

            My mother was 18 and I was the second of 4 by the time she was 22. She stayed home and raised us until we left home. She did the best she could under the circumstances, but there just wasn’t enough primary caregiver to go around and she was just a child herself.

          7. MB says:

            BR, Oh, you were talking about Taylor Swift! Ha Ha. I misunderstood. Yes, her dating history does smack of the narc cycle; however I can also see her being cycled by narcs as I am sure they are plentiful in the entertainment industry. I go back and forth on her. Either way, she does seem to have a firm grasp on narcissistic concepts. Maybe she has been reading HGs work too!

          8. brokenrainbow says:

            Ha Ha. Yes but thank you for the info you provided. (Smile). Yes it is difficult to say whether she is a narcissist or used by narcissists. I think everyone should read HGs work.

          9. brokenrainbow says:

            For sure!

          10. windstorm says:

            Yes! And how she painted the portrait of him in the golden period and then all the ways she alters and destroys it in devaluation is great too!

          11. brokenrainbow says:

            Absolutely! I really like this video!

          12. brokenrainbow says:

            Apparently I could not type yesterday. This does not make sense. I meant to say “I am unfamiliar with the Blank Space video so I watched it.” If that still does not make sense, I am crawling back into bed!

        2. Clarece says:

          WS! Blank Space is my favorite TS song too.
          “Wait the worst is yet to come, oh no
          Screaming, crying, perfect storm
          I can make all the tables turn
          Rose gardens filled with thorns
          Keep you second guessing like
          “Oh my God, who is she?”
          I get drunk on jealousy
          But you’ll come back each time you leave
          ‘Cause darling I’m a nightmare dressed like a daydream.”

          And if you ask JN, he’d say I was the nightmare always drunk on jealousy, creating the perfect storm with my overthinking and delusional, emotional outbursts. Funny how that works. Lol

          1. windstorm says:

            I’ve always had a hard time understanding projection. It always reminds me of the children’s taunt, “I know you are, but what am I?” I understand it as a taunt, a manipulation, a way to hurt someone- if it is deliberate. What I can’t understand is the people who actually believe their own projections. It seems counter-intuitive. How can you be so out of tune with your own self that you actually believe other people are doing what it is you who is actually doing? Whenever I see someone projecting and seeming to actually believe it, I think of my Pretzel’s advice, “Whenever you see crazy, run away! Never try to talk to them, just run away!”

          2. brokenrainbow says:

            Am I correct to say they are not in tune with themselves? They are in tune with their false self but they have buried their little boy/girl deep down within themselves. Projection is also confusing to me.

          3. brokenrainbow says:

            “Cause darling I’m a nightmare dressed like a daydream.” and “So it’s gonna be forever or it’s gonna go down in flames.”
            I love both of those lines. They are so telling.

      4. Dr. Harleen Quinzel PsyD. says:

        I’m bustin a move right now lmao…

        Big reputation, big reputation
        Ooh, you and me, we got big reputations
        Ah, and you heard about me
        Oh, I got some big enemies
        Hey, big reputation, big reputation
        Ooh, you and me would be a big conversation
        Ah, and I heard about you
        Ooh, you like the bad ones, too

        I hit you like bang
        We tried to forget it, but we just couldn’t
        And I bury hatchets, but I keep maps of where I put ’em
        Reputation precedes me, they told you I’m crazy
        I swear I don’t love the drama, it loves me
        And I can’t let you go, your hand prints on my soul
        It’s like your eyes are liquor, it’s like your body is gold
        You’ve been calling my bluff on all my usual tricks
        So here’s the truth from my red lips

        I wanna be your end game (End game)
        I wanna be your first string (Me and you)
        I wanna be your A-Team (Be your A-Team now)
        I wanna be your end game, end game
        I wanna be your end game (oh, I do)
        I wanna be your first string (first string)
        I wanna be your A-Team (A-Team)
        I wanna be your end game, end game

        …………Okay, I swear I’m good now… lmao – got all that Taylor out of my system!!

  9. Michelle says:

    My narc ex used to tell horrifying stories about his ex. He claimed that she was diagnosed with Antisocial PD. (He was in therapy; in hindsight I wonder if this might have been part of his own diagnosis.) I found a professional to research this woman after the relationship and found absolutely nothing to corroborate anything he said about her. Interestingly enough, whether or not he was the dumper or the dumpee varied widely depending on how he felt when he was telling the story. Once at a gathering, a woman appeared in the restaurant who could have been his ex’s twin. I have never seen a man so googly-eyed. It was like he saw an angel. Apparently she was painted white that day.

    1. Anm says:

      I wonder how many professionals have researched me

  10. wissh says:

    Well it’s good I have you, HG, to keep the adrenaline flowing now that my narc is ex. No need to detox yet. And yes, I know, the behaviors make a narcissist, the narcissist isn’t following a playbook, but damn are you on the money, which is why I believe you. The first half of this article is EXACTLY as it happened. I was not devalued, and she (ex-wife, his only marriage, lasted less than a year) has been out of the picture for almost two decades, so I can only imagine it, but I’m certain it would have gone as you described in the second half of your post. Each blog entry you write feels like another brick in the wall around my cold, black heart, and I thank you for that.

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