Point Askew
In a discussion with Dr E we were engaged in one of the sessions where he invites me to consider the situation from the point of view of those that I interact with. On this particular occasion we were discussing situations where a victim wishes to cease interacting with me and he wanted to know if I could understand why they might form that view. Since I am a clever chap I am able to work out how people might feel about being on the receiving end of my behaviour. I understand that anxiety and hyper vigilance, misery and upset follow the way I treat people. As you know though I do not care. People make the mistake that I am dismissive of the way people feel. It is not that. I can see that they are upset. I can see that they are angry. I know all of that. What people often fail to realise is that my needs have to come first. I need my fuel. If that means you standing there sobbing at me then that has to happen so I get my fuel. If there was a different way of getting that fuel then I would use that method. If that alternative method did not leave you upset then I would take it, but there is no other way, not when I grow tired of you. I need the fuel and that means you have to suffer as you supply that to me.
I do understand how you feel because I have seen the reactions over and over again. I know what anger looks like, I know what misery is and I have seen despair so often. I can understand your point of view when you stand arguing with me, but I will not concede to it. I want you to keep arguing as that gives me fuel. I will deploy a circular argument to keep the drama going. I want you to explode through frustration and shower me with your attention as you do so. I hear everything you say to me (although I will wind you up by saying I cannot hear you, so you speak louder and become exasperated). People suspect that I cannot appreciate what your view is. I do but it must always be subservient to my desire for fuel. Of course, by telling you this I can extract even more fuel from you because now you know that I understand your views but I wont pay any heed to them and that will infuriate you all the more.
17 thoughts on “Point Askew”
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You know how anger, misery, love looks like but you can’t feel it because you have no empathy. Does this mean you are easy to manipulate by those who want to make you think they are sad or in love with you when they are not for example? We as empaths know when someone pretend to be angry, in love or sad. When we meet narcissist we know it is fake. Deep down we know it. But you can’t have this feeling. This is a weapon against the narcissist. If ofc someone knows that the narcissist is a narcissist.
So exhausting and i can see why npd is a difficult personality disorder to work with. I think getting to the root cause of why that fuels needed is where they need to start.
I’ve long thought that narcissists feel empathy; they just don’t use it for the same purpose that typical people do. The assumption is that if you know how other people feel, and you hurt them, you will also feel guilt and/or shame accompanying that. Narcissists do not feel shame — that’s the whole point.
Consider a particularly clever hoover. The narcissist needs to anticipate what will get a reaction from you and execute in a convincing way. That takes empathy. My ex narcissist certainly knew what I valued and what would cause me the most pain when he executed malign hoovers. He just didn’t care or feel any shame about the feelings that he was causing in me, and in fact wanted to cause in me. I feel like the DSM is limited in this regard, because it measures almost everything based on outside behaviors, i.e. “If a person feels empathy, they will react kindly to other people.” Not necessarily. Someone can imagine the pain you are feeling and react with malice or indifference anyway.
Thx HG! My emotional thinking is really waning more and more. The realization of how the narcissist operates is just so unfathomable to process… but As more and more time goes by…it’s like having faith in God… You just have to believe. One sees acts(or lack of acts) Which reinforces the faith. Mainly: they swirl around a lot but they don’t give a rats arse about their intimate partners beyond the fuel, the ability to hoodwink and seduce. Once you’re on to them you’re pretty much toast LOL- a broken toaster.. some crumbs on the bottom…collecting dust up in the rafters… Someday in a year or two it might be discovered brushed off and narc might try to use it just briefly …but when it shorts out the narcissist may permanently toss it into the garbage. Leaving it just has some old dusty thought fuel. Narcissist: “Oh yeah…remember that cool toaster I had once…that was cool to have-There are so many cooler toasters now that really work well and are reliable.”
Maybe it as all about fear ? Because… Feeling what the others feel can be dangerous.. Loving is dangerous… Maybe it is a way to protect yourself no ? What about the passiv agressiv narc HG ? I d like you to speak about them… Do have all the narc that lack of empathy ? Or does it exist some degrees ? Thanks.
Passive aggressive narcissists are Mid Range narcissists. There is plenty of material on the blog about them. Also see the Three Strands of Empathy.
Ok thank you. I think i had to work with one of them. Do you think a mid range narc is able to live with the same wife during a long peiod ? I mean about 8 years about ?
Yes.
You are very helpful. Does the midrange need to have dirty little secrets ? Living with the same wife during a long time ? Does it provide enough fuel ?
Indeed I am. They do not need to, subject to how their fuel matrix is constituted – however a MR narcissist is more likely to have a DLS than a Lesser.
Hi HG…id read this comment before of yours. My narc is very passive aggressive et hes never once wanted pity or played the victim. Also i know he knows what he is and is aware of his narc toolbox. Would a greater use passive aggressive tactics too?
Rarely and no pity plays would be used. It is more a case of subtle and hidden manipulations.
Best response is indifference. I am doing this now, and it is working because I am indifferent and don’t initiate contact. Curious to see how long this continues.
Just finished reading Fuel. Wow, HG. Just wow!!! Just began Exorcism.
My eye’s are wide open.
Thank you for sharing parts of your world.
I realize now how hard that world for you is to maintain.
I know that narcissists know and that is all that matters.
Obviously you can SEE and quote what’s happening in front of you.
However, you only FEEL yourself. You don’t experience the pain and torment you cause in the other person. You feed your pain creature off the drama and energy, off the misplaced belief of control. But you don’t actually FEEL the other person’s emotions.
That’s the empathy you lack. You exclude other people’s feelings so you can sacrifice their souls to the pain creature without any twinge of conscience. You can’t ever truly face the reality of what you’ve done to people. You torture others because you’re too cowardly to face down your pain creature and get rid of it and own your life.