Unbelievable (And What To Do About It)
Narcissists have a different world view to you. Failing to understand this results in the behaviour which seems entirely appropriate from our perspective, being confusing, bewildering and utterly unbelievable from your perspective.
This results in the use of flawed logic, bad decisions and continued ensnarement with the narcissist.
To understand how the behaviour is unbelievable and importantly what you can do about it, use the link below.
47 thoughts on “Unbelievable (And What To Do About It)”
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This is incredibly helpful info, HG. I had not seen it before and it came just at the perfect time.
Curious if any other readers can relate to feeling this way post-NC or even while still with their narc.
It feels like I’m sinking right now. I cannot stop thinking about my online narc even though it’s been 18 months since I went NC and deleted the app we talked on. Our entanglement didn’t even last that long. Yet, I feel like I’m sinking into an abyss. I DO NOT MISS him at all, it’s not that. My sex drive is dead, I know partly that’s because my own marital issues are complicated and have dynamics of abuse. I feel stuck. I felt stuck with the online narc too, but his behavior in hindsight was twisted so fucking obvious.
I think I *am* over the narc himself, but not the abuse. It’s like things I hadn’t even thought of as abusive will pop into my mind and I see them with a fresh perspective, and yes it is UNBELIEVABLE that I was so easily mind fucked!
Mary
Were you conditioned this way? Were you raised by a narcissist? That could be a root for accepting behavior. I have had the same “revelations “. Looking back at things I’ve allowed people to do to me because I was conditioned from my childhood to believe it was normal and acceptable. That I had no right to want, expect or demand different. That’s just how the world was and I should figure out how to live with it. Alway changing me or my expectations to cope with their crap. When you’ve lived that way for so long, it becomes second nature to accept, rationalize and cover for them. Pretty much 2 yrs no contact and whet they taught me in childhood trips me up every single day.
IdaNoe:
Thank you for your reply. I definitely was conditioned not to trust my perceptions. I don’t think my mother is a narc, but maybe borderline. I have many BPD traits too (fear of abandonment, dysphoria, self-sabotaging behaviors at moments) but am aware and have worked on them a great deal. My mother has a great deal of empathy, but she does have major black and white thinking. When I let her down as a teenager, I was painted black I think and she would say a lot of cruel demeaning things. Usually it was because I broke her trust with boys. She would say or heavily imply that I’m a slut (I was a virgin at the time) and I would be very angry and hurt. Later on, if I mentioned it, she said “I never called you a slut. I said you are ACTING like one. You are putting words in my mouth and then holding them against me, after everything I’ve done for you.” She also said I was a manipulative little bitch. I was a teenager and I think was manipulative at times. To this day, I always wonder if my perceptions about anything or anyone are right. I feel like a manipulative person anytime I talk about the abuse in my marriage, even know it’s real, because I know hubby’s side of the story isn’t being shared. I try to make excuses for his behavior because I KNOW (or feel) he has to live with a manipulative bitch.
My mom and I have a good relationship now, but there is no way I could ever talk to her about how much this hurt me. She sees me blame myself for hubby’s behavior and actually says “Where did you learn to do that?” But she can’t see it. She is very validating of my feelings, but then when her bf is abusive (he’s much worse than my hub) she says “at least your hub doesn’t act like THIS.” So I get very mixed messages from her still.
Shit, I didn’t mean to go on that long, but that’s what happened.
Mary
Mary
Your mother sounds like mine. I dont know much a BPD, so I’m no help there, however from what you said, perhaps you should reconsider NPD for your mom’s behavior. The reason I say this is that in the beginning I didn’t think my mother’s behavior fit NPD either. Most people talk about their intimate partner with NPD, but if you search there are a few places you can find reliable info on NPD parents. It was there that I began to put the pieces together, then I found Narsite. To begin with it was some what confusing, but as you slowly digest the information and begin to truly understand, the whole picture become clearer. While there is no golden period with parents, the devaluation can be similar. As an only child, I flipped from being the golden child in public, to the scapegoat behind closed doors, to just being ignored.
There is much in what you described in your mothers behavior that sounds very narcissistic. This is how I was treated by my mother ( and father), see if this sounds familiar – I was their pride and joy but there were near constant reminders or implications that I was defective, manipulative, morally corrupt – even though when I picked myself apart, I could only find minor mistakes I had made. Usually out of ignorance. A very outwardly supportive family, but behind the scenes she was eroding my confidence in every aspect. It was very covert. Telling me she wanted me to succeed but always implying she would “understand ” WHEN I failed. My best moments in life have always been when I was alone. I could think straight, problem solve and make good decisions but only alone. Her support – wasnt. Even though she was acting “loving”, she always made things worse or made me feel worse and more confused and afraid about the situation. She offered solutions that could not possibly work or help and was terribly “hurt” when I didn’t take her advice. I was constantly compared to other people and even herself, covertly of course. She would tell me how wonderful the neighbors daughter was and imply she wished I was that good, even though I knew this person to be a slut and druggie. She would tell me how wonderful she was, how trim and beautiful she was and imply I should work harder on my figure even though I could wear her old cloths from when she was young. She would tell me how I came from “superior stock”, how much smarter she and my father were than everyone else, but ignored the fact that I had learning issues and couldn’t read well. If I didn’t like what she liked, I was being difficult. If I didn’t behave as she wanted, I was being manipulative and trying to humiliate her. She would boast to people about things I wasn’t. Ex: I was dieting, hit a plateau, so started to run to get past it. She told everyone I was now a runner. Its stupid and little but you get the idea. I played piano ( love to play Scott Joplin and Beethoven), so now I was going to be a pianist. No I just wanted to play some music. When I finally quit piano because of the pressure they put on me, she “understood “. Then implied it was just one more thing I failed at. I quit band in high school because of their pressure, to this day she will tell you I quit to get back at them and take away something they enjoyed ( watching us compete).
If any of this sounds familiar, reconsider your thoughts on your mother. A good covert narcissist can be difficult to spot. Also, I highly recommend reading Angel’s with dirty faces. HG hit it perfectly!
Mary, I just thought of something else. They create an environment of conspiracy. Like you are conspiring to destroy yourself and the family and they are trying to save you. Everyone’s out to get you , even you are trying to destroy yourself. Here let me save you. Only it’s not happening. Their the ones trying to destroy you and projecting that on to you. The smallest mistake I made was amplified and blown up completely out of proportion and turned to a major character flaw. Things were taken out of context, blown up, misrepresented and used as proof of my conspiracy against them. Its wasnt true. It’s like trying to prove the government doesn’t have a UFO. In the end, I realized I dont have to be a failure for my mother to be a success.
This is very relatable, Mary, thank you for sharing that.
“3. Avoid over analysis of our motives. Until you grasp points one and two, such analysis is futile and detrimental.”
Guilty AF.
I am bookmarking this one, I think it is possibly my top my favorite and very accurate.
5!!!
So I came here and got them 🙂
I went out last night, to the place where I first met my narc. I smiled and laughed and held my head up and found out that he had somewhat overstated how unwelcome I am there. One person who he claims as a friend said how nice it was to see me back out (I hadn’t been out in months as he’d convinced me that everyone hates me) and that I didn’t have to worry about them going running to let him know they’ve seen me. I feel like I have reclaimed something important and put another brick in the wall I’m building to keep him out.
I have had more than one narc tell me that I cannot have friends….while I make friends very easily, I simply became more afraid of people because of them. Most notably my mother who ironically really doesn’t make friends easily at all.
Nunya biz,
When I was young I said something about my friends, my father explained to me that I those people were not my friends. That the only fiends I had were him and my mother. Everyone else was just trying to use me and I had better figure what they wanted, because that’s the only reason they wanted to be my friend. They wanted something. So when little girls came over to play, (I wasn’t allowed to go to their house-they didn’t know those parents and something bad could happen. This was a direct reference to me being molested in my own home by a cousin) he would tease them until they cried and never came back. Your mother and my father sound like they were cut from the same cloth!
Great article! I love the advice on how to tackle. I wish I have read this years ago!
Thank you HG for this. I don’t remember if I had seen this. But it is really helping me at this particular time. I am so grateful for you and this blog. Keeping me from going back and circling that narc drain again when the Hoovers aren’t stopping. I am glad you repost many of your blogs.
You are welcome.
Joyascending
I’m sorry you are having a hard time but glad you are here to reinforce not returning. The hoovers are getting through and obviously affecting you. Have you attempted complete no contact or is there some complication with regard to workplace, child custody, etc that is making that difficult for you? Good job on the resistance so far.
Thanks NA, I always enjoy your insight. My ex narc works same place as I do on one of my jobs. We often drive by each other. Also encounter the same people in our social and work group. After “dating” him 5 years ago, (me: waiting for him to leave his roommate who was his live in girlfriend he claimed he wss just helping, then he moved in with me… The rest of the story can be found in all of the blogs by our beloved HG) he was seeing 5 women! so the blog helped me to get him out of my house. Now he has been dumped by his last IPPS and hence the Hoovers. HG blog about Always Resisting is also a good one. So when I know I can’t do no contact all the time, I can return here and know what to do. He will never change. And I resisting. I do know my greatest fear is the smear. So healthy distance.
My critical mistake with my Narc Ex was trying to get other people to see him for what he was. That was my first (and only) actual committed relationship with a narcissist and I didn’t know yet what I was dealing with. I had a vague understanding of narcissism and the warning signs cropped up so fast that the relationship fizzled (empath supernova style) within a few weeks. But the pain lingered on as it occurred to me that our mutual friends still saw him as a shy, somewhat self-effacing, innocent guy who was just looking for love. The more I tried to convince them of what he really was, the crazier I looked, and he took this and ran with it. Not until I had cut off almost every person we both knew did I finally escape the malign hoovers. Some of those people still really respect him and he ended up in a leadership position shortly after I was out of the picture, despite my attempts to reveal his true nature. Trying to convince anyone about the true nature of a narcissist is not something I would attempt again unless it were critically important to do so.
I honestly don’t even want to tell my friends, I’ve shared limited details with only a select few. I still find it shaming to have fallen for one of you guys, mostly because I shared that with all my friends during those wonderful (fake) early love bombing months.
One of the problematic issues I’ve come across has to do with verbiage. Narcissist and narcissistic are not the same, and when you attempt to explain your nightmare with a narcissist, your friends think you’re complaining about a well dressed boyfriend who thinks a bit highly of himself or has a fondness for grooming. No one really gets it.
So, yes, I agree, read, read, read. Understand what you’re dealing with. Work on yourself, and don’t even bother trying to explain this to anyone else.
It is unbelievable that you can think all this, realize all this, write all this, and yet continue to conduct yourself (sorry, I’m assuming) in such a way that the women closest to you would benefit from this article. I guess that falls under #3, don’t bother trying to analyze the narc.
HG, have any of your GF’s figured you out after the fact, as many of us have our own narcs with all the resources available online? Do you know?
Yes, I know of one. If the others have, they have not told me.
Thanks for reposting this one! I need to print this and post it on the wall.
Struggle with #3 & #5. Back to #1 & #2. Anyone else struggling with those?
Blue1
I think I’ve gotten a pretty good handle on #5 from reading HG. There certainly hasn’t been a clue from narcex.
Thanks wissh! HG’s blog has been amazing.
Yes, Blue. And other points. I agree with you, to print and post! I struggle mostly with the memory of the Golden Period vs the reality. Always shake myself awake each time that hoover text comes in.
Thanks Joy! I think my emotions pull me into that cycle/drain. As posted previously, I need to apply cool hard logic.
Yes, every day.
Thank you Ida! I have talked to my closest family and friends, can’t seem to get them to understand. Before HG, I didn’t understand.
Hi Blue1,
“3. Avoid over analysis of our motives. Until you grasp points one and two, such analysis is futile and detrimental.”
-Let HG analyze their motives/behaviours. In the beginning, I over analyzed and wracked my brain reading here to the point that I thought my head would explode (I actually walked around with a perpetual headache for some time…and I don’t suffer from headaches) or I thought the hamster upstairs would keel over…until I sought answers from HG directly, through a consultation – then the relief was huge.
“5. Don’t seek answers from us. You won’t get them. Ever.”
-Really just the same as above. Read here or seek answers directly from HG. And then apply those answers, or what you learn here, to your situation. I did; my narc’s resulting behaviour was true to form…soooo confirming. When you watch it happen, as predicted, all the mind-churning questions just melt away – at least that is what happened for me. They still do things (OF COURSE) to garner a reaction…but then you’re like so cool about it and you can look at your own behaviour and say hey “I’m reacting!” That is what it is designed to do. Then you can say to yourself – I don’t have to react – that is what they *want* (hell no – as much as it is within my control; I’m above and beyond doing what they want anymore) – instead, I choose to apply logic or apply their twisted perspective, as learned here.
And then, IT. ALL. MAKES.SENSE.
Whocares
Great advice. Not to analyze (haha), but you sound strong and clear. Happy for you.
Thank-you NarcAngel…strong, yes maybe…
Clear?…I will never be fully in the clear. Just vigilant.
Who cares
I guess I’m learning. I just tapped out a response to ASPD’S comment under another post. It was a fuel filled, obnoxious, angry, and defensive rebuttal. By the end, I realized the reaction she had provoked in me, and I deleted it before giving her even a dollop of tertiary fuel.
Another day another lesson. I’d prefer HG be the only narc in my life, I sure don’t need to knowingly communicate with another.
wissh, I don’t know the comment thread you’ve mentioned…I’ve only been sporadically reading but good work on the ET!
Hi WhoCares,
Thanks for taking the time to respond. I appreciate your input. I am printing this out for future reference. Will be booking a consultation with HG. Glad you escaped!
Blue1 – I’m happy you found my reaponse constructive. Thank-you; I’m glad I eacaped too!
Best wishes moving forward in your situation 🙂
“WhoCares on October 26, 2018 at 18:24
wissh, I don’t know the comment thread you’ve mentioned…I’ve only been sporadically reading but good work on the ET!”
Thank you! And it was under the Mockery of Mimicry post.
WhoCares
“the hamster upstairs…”
Ha ha!
My hamster is in N- rehab too. Poor thing has fallen off its wheel three times because of N- abuse. I have PTSD from violation by a N- surgeon in 2011.
A female mid-ranger has now moved into unit 2 (complete with mesmerising cold eyed snake hiss move, like my sister), so I’m practising my ‘don’t react’ skills and already know we’ll never be friends. It’s already too late for that, right HG? Her snake move didn’t work, so she ignored me at the letterbox next day. I said hi to be polite, then ignored her. She’s one more person whose opinion of me isn’t worth anything.
It’s so great to know we have a choice in how we respond, and we have a right to exercise that choice.
I’ve been working on my “that’s inappropriate and unacceptable” response as weapon iof choice. Said with blank expression, of course.
Thank you HG for this fantastic article. I love your practical help.
I love this. It’s so perfectly spot on. I didn’t believe it when I was married to the first one. He was incredibly intelligent, an amazing scientist, good-looking and supposedly a Buddhist. I didn’t believe it when he attacked me, I didn’t believe it when he was found guilty in court. I refused him a divorce because I didn’t believe he was really what he was. Four years after I left, I read a book by Lundy Bancroft, and finally it sunk in. I’ve got to hand it to you HG, your understanding and the information you give is a lot better than any other books or any YouTube channels out there. Your advice in this is perfect. I wish I’d had it back then. I may have believed it faster. Coming to acceptance that people who think this way exist, is the death of your own innocence in a way. The death of your innocence is also sad. Even though you may not remember it or care.
Pippa, so true. I feel alone in my understanding often. I’ve been through a lot as the result of this and it’s hard for people to understand the more subtle effects it has had on me, so I don’t talk about it except with one person. I think the most frustrating part of it is that I can see that with some people the manipulations will just never stop. I can see them doing it to other people and I can see it is invisible. It is so sad to look at it, it breaks my heart.
I have been on edge a bit about it because I want to alter my behavior to end the cycle. I have a history with this dynamic. I also attract healthy non-narc people, so I feel this information is directly beneficial for me.
I felt suspicious of a person I met the other day and got strong covert N vibes and I was the only one. It’s something I would wait and see about, but definitely with guard up. It is #2 that blows my mind because I can see that now. I can see even people accepting “oh yes, that person is a narcissist” and still not get #2.
To clarify, I meant #2 on the advice portion…
“Understand that our kind operate in a different reality to you.”
If I could make one thing common knowledge in the world it would be that.
Nunya biz, I have understood the theory of it since the first one. But it didn’t stop the second or third who were a lesser and midrange with PTSD. They seemed different at first, and didn’t have the grandiosity that I had experienced. The lesser, he quickly made it known that he had a scary rough side. The mid range with PTSD that was tough. I could see it all, my instincts were right, but of course he played the poor me card in regards to injuries and damage done in the forces. I remember I paid for him to go to a therapist for his physical injuries, and he never went. And then I realised that he didn’t have scars either, and it was just another pity ploy. That was the final nail, they do live in their own realities and the midrange especially was utterly deluded and self entitled. He believed his own lies I think. And I just let him carry on and watched and listened until I was sure I wasn’t just being some kind of paranoid freak. I do worry that im going to assume the worst of everyone in the future. But at the same time I never want to fall for them again.
This is spot on!!
One of my go to validations:
Tudor
OCTOBER 14, 2018 AT 17:09
You are welcome HG SMH. Indeed, the brutal truth – and it is brutal – it an absolute necessity to remove the obscuring fog caused by emotional thinking. This emotional thinking seizes on all of the inaccuracies, the euphemisms, the platitudes, the diluting description that have been pumped out about our kind for a very long time. Millions upon millions of people experience the consequence of engagement with our kind – whether it is the devastation from a romantic relationship which has gone from the marvellous to the horrific, whether it is the ongoing litigation which is costing huge amounts of money, whether it is the domineering and demanding family member, whether it is the unpleasant colleague at work, whether it is the fair-weather friend who keeps borrowing money and so many other examples. People do not realise what is actually behind all of these issues and once they do, not only do they seize the power and extract themselves from such issues, they can also work to ensure they are not similarly affected again in the future. This is why my work and my only work, hard to digest as it is at times, is of such importance and effectiveness. You do not have to like me, indeed you can hate me but you will learn from me and it is the single most valuable lesson to learn.
E&L, very good response there from HG. You are very smart to keep it close by. It sums it up quite nicely with a neat little bow. We are fortunate to have him in our lives. ❤️
I really love that
Thanks for sharing this. I missed this one!
Great to read E&L, thank you so much for posting that.
Hi HG, When I copied and pasted your comment the command placed your initials where they do not belong. It is driving me crazy, and I want to be respectful when quoting you. If you wanted to place the ‘HG” in the first sentence in its proper place at the header before “TUDOR” I would appreciate it. If not, then it will be as it is. Forgive my novice computer skills.