How Long Can You Resist



Can you hear me knocking? Open the door and let me in? I know you want to. It is only me. You know me. You know me better than anybody else. Come on, I know you are thinking about me. That is what happens. I am on your mind and in your thoughts. I am whirling around in that messed-up mind of yours. It is messed up. I didn’t do it. I didn’t do anything wrong. I never do. It was a real state before I even appeared. I just took advantage. But look, that is in the past and we don’t need to talk about the past (expect I suppose when it suits me). I know you want to hear my voice again don’t you? You miss hearing me. You miss those long conversations on the telephone that we used to have, two hours or more where there was never a lull. I know you remember them. I know you keep looking at your ‘phone hoping that it will ring and that it will be me. I know you feel a phantom buzz when you have stashed your phone on your person and you keep pulling it from your pocket and checking. You tell your friends that your mother needs to speak to you, just so they won’t groan or roll their eyes at you for wanting it to be me. I know you are itching to call me. Go on, why don’t you? You can speak to me again and it will be just like before, all of the wonderful stuff. I will reinstate it in an instant because look, I have had a lot on, I have been tired, I have been worried and so on and so forth blah blah blah. I will trot anything out because once you see me smiling at you, you won’t be listening any more.

No, you will be thinking back to that kiss as we stood in that park with the sound of the breeze through the autumnal trees. That first kiss after the days of flirting through text and call. That magical, marvellous, mesmeric kiss. The first of a million. One in a million. I know you close your eyes and stand in that park and allow yourself to be taken back to that time a year ago. That day when we both drove there and met beneath the towering trees, the September sunshine still warm and I stood there, my magnetic smile on display as you half-ran towards me and I took you in my arms and then we kissed. Imagine doing that again? Oh you have of course. A thousand times.

Send me a text. You may as well. I will answer you and I will put a kiss on the end, just to tempt you. I know your heart will surge when you see that and all thoughts of staying away from me will begin to evaporate on seeing that. Text me. Just one text. It is easy enough. I know you haven’t deleted my number despite the promises you have made to do so. You just could not bring yourself to do it.

Call me. Ring me up and tell me what a bastard I am. Go on. Unleash that anger. Let it out. How many times have you sobbed to your friends about what I did to you? What a cruel and heartless bastard I am. I do not deserve you do I? No, but I deserve being told what I have done to you. You need to get it off your chest don’t you? You should. Go on, just press that button and I will answer you and you can let rip at me. Hey, even better, why not suggest we meet up and then you can have that show down that you have always envisaged. I know you have thought through all the things you have wanted to say to me but feel that I prevented you from saying when I just disappeared and then ignored your frantic attempts to get in touch with me. Tell me how broken I left you. Tell me how your friends hate me too. Tell me how your brother is going to batter me. Go on, I know that anger is still raging through you and you need to let it out. Surely after everything you have put up with you are entitled to one last hurrah?

Make that call late at night. I know you are lying in the dark thinking about me, hands entwined around the shirt I left which still smells of my scent. You know you ought to throw it away or burn it but you just cannot do it can you? You still want that connection. You still want to be able to inhale my fragrance and somehow relish the agonised joy as your mind is flooded with my memory. It is a lonely place now that bed isn’t it? Why not send me a text and we can exchange some saucy messages? Rekindle that fire again. It will make you feel better. I might even be tempted to come and see you and take you in your bed once again and let you experience the magic that I possess. The sex was brilliant wasn’t it? I know you cannot lie about that. I have heard what you have said to people about how you hate me but the sex was off the charts. Let’s do it again. Why not? It will make you feel so much better. Just text me, ring me, message me. You just have to reach out because I know you are dying to.

You may as well flick through those pictures again and smile with regret and longing as they evoke all those momentous times from when we were happy together. So many pictures, so many smiles. Have a look at my Facebook profile again. I did not block you. I would not do that. I want you to see how I am doing. Those messages are for you by the way. I am sure that the cryptic comments that I have posted with those pictures will have been picked up on by you and considered and reflected on. Those were for you. I wanted you to know how much I am missing you and you need your daily fix of stalking my social media. Yes, there was somebody else and I know you will have seen and been distraught to know that she was now receiving my love, my perfect love. How that must have burned inside of you as you realised that somebody else was now the recipient. I knew you would but don’t worry, she isn’t a patch on you so why don’t you come and see me and we can start it all again. I know you want to.

Come and see me. Help me. You are the only one who truly knows me. You know more about me than anybody else. The others, huh, they meant nothing to me. They were aberrations but you, you are the real deal. I love you still. I always have. Just come and see me and I will prove it to you. I will make the changes you want me to do and I know you believe in me. You see the good in me don’t you, you are the one who can let it out and help me. Please help me. I just need to be fixed and you are the one with the tools to do it. There is only you. Please don’t let me down. I need you. I will change. I will be better. I promise. Just come and see me and give me the chance to show you. That is only fair isn’t it? You are a fair person, I know you are, that is why I love you so much.

Come on, just get in touch with me and all this pain can go away. There is no need for it. You just need to press those buttons, dial that number or best of all just turn up. Imagine how romantic it will be. You turning up unexpectedly (but not really) in the rain and I sweep you into my arms again and everything will be good and golden and great once again. Do it. Do it. Give me the dressing down. Come to bed with me. Kiss me again. Tell me how you feel. Offer me forgiveness. Let me know what has happened to you. Tell me. Tell me. Tell me. Do it. Do it. Get in touch. Reach out. Stop the pain. End the hurt. Bring back the joy. Resurrect us. Ignite the passion. Let love reign. Do it. You can do it. I believe in you. End this agony. Let it go. Berate me. Love me. Chastise me. Fuck me. Hate me. Contact me. Contact me. Contact me.

I can hear my ‘phone ringing.

180 thoughts on “How Long Can You Resist

  1. J.G says:

    Hello, H.G. Tudor.
    Now I see why my narcissist never called me. Well initially yes, but I stop and it was always me who had to put me in touch. And if, for me it was like a drug, I needed this one daily. To talk, to see him, to be with him. Like a drug addict with his camel.
    How long will you be able to resist?
    Well, I’m going to answer the question.
    This depends on your addiction to your narcissist. Usually little time.
    But the empathic, like any drug addict, can be recovered. For it the empathic one must recognize that his narcissist is harmful and toxic like the dredge. What’s more, he is their drug.
    There are many types of addictive substances and you are one of the many.
    When you apply zero contact, which is nothing more than moving away from the toxin your dependence creates, you study and understand how and why you got hooked, and you devalue your narcissus because this is less than nothing, because it is not worth a shit. You give yourself to be worth and recover your dignity. You see that everything was a nightmare but, the sun rises every morning. And that Sun is each one of the recovered victims.

  2. BetterwoNarc says:

    I’m pretty sure I was hoovered today. I’m using the wrong no contact. I haven’t heard anything from exnarc affair partner for 5 months. We both agreed to block each other on social media since our spouses were aware of the affair. I was never blocked from phone, and I was unblocked from social media in November. I do look at his social every couple of days just to see if I’m blocked. I have him blocked on all but LinkedIn. Today I had a profile view from a person with no contacts and no pictures, so probably a fake profile. So I checked for his profile, and low and behold, not there. So I’m blocked now on LinkedIn. This was such a huge trigger of negative feelings. I can literally feel the stress running through my body. I need to go full NC and stop teetering on the edge if NC suicide. Why is it so hard?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Because your emotional thinking works against you to feed the innate addiction and will always do so – it becomes easier by resisting any form of engagement as this reduces and keep ET low meaning you will find the desire to engage fades.

      1. Q says:

        But I do not want to go to war, HG, I couldn’t care less… I just want to give him an itch, that’s all….

        1. HG Tudor says:

          That’s continuing to engage with him. Note you said ‘drive him crazy’ and now ‘give him an itch’. Your ET is trying its best to make you think what you are doing is the right thing to do – it is not. Do understand I am not criticising you, I have seen this time and time again and it is a product of ET. At this stage you should obey the first golden rule of freedom – once you know, you go – no ifs, no buts, do it and apply it solidly for 6 months and then with lowered ET you can revisit this desire to ‘give him an itch’.

          1. Q says:

            But I’ve alaways warnted to produce an itch in men. This is the core of my HPD! I cannot function without it….

      2. Q says:

        The aim is to produce a mega super itch and let it unresolved. That’s why I asked for your help. He is not an Elite like you, he is much simpler. I have already and succesfully frustrated him a lot. I am not planning to go on seeing him, he disappointed me, he bored me, sex with him no longer interests me. I am not no longer interested In what he has to offer. NC is fine with me, I just want the final upper hand. Like a grande finale, if you know what I mean.

      3. BetterwoNarc says:


        When he hoovers me, does that mean his IPPS is in devaluation?


        1. HG Tudor says:

          It depends on what you are in the fuel matrix.

          1. BetterwoNarc says:

            SIPSS, possibly DLS.

  3. Q says:

    Oh, HG, your expertise is needed: my new lover is a Narc, probably a Midranger. We are both DSs to eachother. He is separated with the wife&kid on another continent. I am married, living in another city. He lives alone, like a bachelor, with no intention to divorce or remarry. Midforties. Artistic career. Great sex, wonderful intelectual compatibility. We have been seeing eachother for about 4 months. In the beginning he mentioned wanting me to visit him weekly. I declined by acting like I didn’t hear it. I get there when I can. Last week we met for 2 days, the meeting was strange, hot and cold, but mainly fine. He was clearly pulling away but at the same time enquirred about possible local competition and mentioned again how happy he would be for me if I decide to divorce and live the happy life he thinks I deserve. Again I did not engage the conversation about a possible divorce. Let him know I do have local options but I am not interested in them, even showed him the options on FB. He was clearly impressed by “the option” but immediately & indirectly pointed out how the option is below him culturally. Asked if I think we could be friends when we are over. I declined. Great & repeated sex followed. I left his house the next day, at the end he thanked me for coming over him. None of us messaged or called the other one after. Begore that we were daily in contact, tons of sexting, phone calls and regular messages. WTF is this???

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are on the shelf. If you require further analysis of the situation, I advocate you organise a consultation with me.

      1. Q says:

        I want to drive him mad, HG. 🙂
        I am a little narc myself, according to my therapist, but not a big, big narc, just a cute little petite one who’s slowly but surely figures get own self awareness
        It is too early for a consultation, that will come later on, when things get complicated.
        But I digress, I want to drive him mad.
        What should I do?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          No such thing as a little narc. You may be narcissistic but not a narcissist. It is not the time to attempt revenge, your ET is too high. Implement no contact and GOSO.

      2. Q says:

        Of course I am a narcissist, but since I am petite and cute I like to refer to myself as a cute little petite narcissist. I utterly dislike the narcissist label. Going NC was my personal choice, too, glad to see you recommend it too.
        What is GOSO?
        And what should I do on my FB page? Silence or the fabulos me doing all sorts of cultural activities? I am a visual artist so that should not be a problem, I can post whatever needed.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Get Out,Stay Out.

          Come off social media for a period of time.

      3. Q says:

        What is ET?
        Staying out of social media will drive him mad? I have no feelings for him, HG, I am not ensnared, not in love with him… in fact the 2 days were quite boring, except (maybe) for some of the sex. And even the sex is, at least for me, not that important, tbh, sex is just a way to bond and to feel special. He doesn’t know that, of course, he thinks the sex is driving me crazy.
        This is a matter of pride and winning the game. Because it is always a game with things like this and I want to win.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Emotional Thinking.

          No, it is part of no contact. You are ensnared – you are trying to go to war with him at too early a stage and this is being driven by your ET (although this is difficult for you to see this as you are in the middle of it all). If you want me to expand on this in greater detail to assist your understanding, the appropriate forum is a consultation.

        2. NarcAngel says:

          You win by ignoring him. That’s what hurts them the most. That they are so insignificant to you that they are not even worthy of a response. Using their own tactic (silent treatment) against them. Picture him as the witch in the Wizard of Oz. I’m meltinggggggg………

      4. Q says:

        Ok, guys, that’s what I did: blocked him on messanger and FB (but he is not using FB, anyway), blocked his main number on whatsapp. We use 2 different phones to talk, the regular and the “secret” phone. The secret phone is a prepay anonymous one, no internet, no nothing, just an old untraceable Nokia. I powered this one off and put it in the depths of a drawer. That’s it.
        NarcAngel, when I returned from my trip to him I was decided to end it abrupt it, only did not take into consideration blocking him, since our relationship has been nice and I do not have major things to complain. It was just that the sex part was not important to me anymore, I realised I feel nothing for him (but this has always been my problem, I can experience only boursts of infatuation and I get bored easily with all men. And I like to win in a casual relationship, I need this to feel ok). He was good in my life as long as I could feel something special and thrilling, but that was all gone. I think it was gone for him, too. We talked a bit about it and I realised we were in the same place. For both of us it was great as long as we had that delicious feeling of a thrilling beginning. But: during the time we were together he tried to “elicit my sympathy” a few times. Didn’t get to the point of asking money but a weaker empath soul would have definitely offered her “support”. No money to get an airplane ticket to see his daughter in Canada, no money left for one week, several difficulties with a medical test and so on. But he bought himself a brand new special series Iphone, I’m sure you get the picture. I have way more money than him, run my own business and feel very good about myself. I hate it when men try to get advantage or even consider it as a posibility. I feel insulted. He didn’t, but I “sensed” it as a secondary intention. Each time it happened I just offered him my deep sympathy and went on with the conversation like I don’t get it. I wanted to see what his next move would be and, to be completely honest, I used this relationship to test things about me and to clarify things about myself. It has been very useful to have him in my life, and not a regular, normal guy. I do like him, He is a very candid type of narc, that’s what I liked about him. He was not sneaky, just completely self absorbed in a childish, yet adorable way. I would have kept him in my life longer had I not been worried about STDs. He offered me huge emotional support while I had back surgery, it was nice talking about art, he was fun and the sex was good. But I don’t want to be voice recorded during my big Os and I definitely don;t want to have them posted on a French site who boasts an impressive anonymous collection of female orgasms. :)))))) He asked for it and I declined. It is possible I have already been recorded, but even if I haven’t, I won’t risk another close encounter. I do realise we have both consumed whatever was of relevance in this brief relationship. We have both used our purposes. He cannot teach me anything new about myself, I cannot and am not willing to offer him anything else beside a nice companionship and sex. But unfoetunately, for me, the thrill of sex and long talks is now gone. I don;t want to disrupt anything in my family and financial life. He was good, he was nice, but that’s it. I cannot be part of his “harem”. I enjoyed most of our time together, studying him and our interaction, it was useful and I consider it a significant part of my therapy. It helped me realise I cannot feel much, I understood what is wrong with me. I realised the limits of my ability to “feel” something for a partner. It was all about me. He was something that made me feel good, I was seing myself through him. He was not important, or was important as a something that makes this possible. Yes, somehow, he is/was an extension of my person. He made me feel loved and desired and I wanted him for this. I did the same for him. He has served his purpose to me.
        That’s why I wasn’t eager of the full no contact. I don’t like the blocking part, because he hasn’t harmed me in any way. At least yet. 🙂 But I did it, and I agree, it is better like this. He would have become a life disruptor.

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Good job. You don’t need him.

      5. Lori says:

        It is true ignoring them hurts them the most. I have been observing this now for months. I get no direct Hoovers but I watch him doing many things to get me to contact him and I don’t and while I have had no direct contact that would confirm it, he seems annoyed about it.

        Yes ignoring them kills them but what really kills them is being forgotten. It ignites painful feelings in them and they were forgotten children

      6. Bubbles 🍾 says:

        Dear Mr Tudor,
        I’ve just come across the term “victim narcissist”
        Have you already written about this …. which I may have overlooked
        Also I’m interested in your thoughts on our trust v gullibility in regards to narcs
        Thank you 😊
        Luv Bubbles xx 😘

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Hello Bubbles, please see Sitting Target for information re this cadre. With regard to trust and gullibility this is also covered in Sitting Target to some degree.

      7. Bubbles 🍾 says:

        Dear Mr Tudor,
        Many thanks for steering me in the right direction of Sitting Target (great book by the way ) I found the gullibility section as well
        I was more interested in the “victim narcissist” ……not the narcissist themselves
        “A man or woman who can demonstrate narcissistic traits after suffering years of narcissistic abuse. Children who have been at the whims and abuse of a narcissistic parent growing up”
        This is what I’m curious about and perhaps others may be as well
        Kind thanks
        Luv Bubbles 😘

    2. Q says:

      HG, my brother who is also a narc (something between a lesser and a midranger) and an IT operative (in a hm…, some kind of service) told me I was wrong to implement NC with total social media blocking, because this sends the message I am hurt a great deal. He says I should have simply ignored him while maintaing him as a friend on FB. He says that since I don’t have major things to complain about I should have send him a message or call him and tell him it is over and do nothing else and that blocking is something of huge proportions considering the facts. In his oppinion I just made a fool out of myself and put a huge “I am hurt, I care too much about you” signpost. At times I don’t know anymore… all I know is that I was no longer happy with the way our relationship was unfolding. It was not good. My brother keeps saying I am spoiled and I want things to align perfectly and I have huge reactions. I don;t think so, I added things up for 4 months of relationship and no matter how nice or sweet some aspects were, the others are not what I think a normal relationship between 2 grown ups should be. Was I over reacting? Am I spoiled? I don’t think so. I think I deserve better but sometimes I don’t know anymore. I hate the idea of being perceived as a crazy woman who blocked him because she was not happy with his behaviour. I dont think I should have called him to let him know it is over since I was shelved/ghosted and this is no way a gentleman should conduct his affairs with a lady. I don’t think I owe him this. I think shelving and ghosting are both cruel and insensitive and no woman should accept them. Am I wrong? Is my brother right?

      1. HG Tudor says:

        No he is wrong. People often misunderstand and think that by ignoring and blocking the narcissist will think the victim is afraid of them – this is not the case. Those actions are necessary as part of NC. Those actions will wound. Of course the narcissist will CLAIM to others that the victim is afraid of them/is rude/ill-mannered etc but that is all part of the narcissist dealing with the effect of the wounding, triangulating the victim with other appliances and part of façade management.

  4. Kathy Mor says:

    After reading his many hoover messages throughout these days, I couldn’t do it. There was and there is no will left in me that wants to exchange anything with him. Every word he types feels as if he were secretively laughing at me for have been stupid many times before. Then the veiled anger. The hate. I can feel it coming from him. But all that comes from him finds no echo in me any longer. It dies off. His mistake was allowed time between us to grow me stronger under HG’s guidance.

    I am passed that point. I crossed over. The danger from him is overcome. But he was a lesser.

    Now about myself on my own as my own person… I am left with this strange emptiness inside that makes me feel “off” to the world, as a black whole inside of myself. I feel strange. I cannot relate to the normal world. It is almost as if my whole identity has changed, my whole self has been altered or uncovered. My energy is off. Some days I live through feeling like an alien. I do what I have to but I feel hollow inside. I try to hold on to what I knew of myself but everything is meaningless, mechanical. I know I am damaged. That much I know. But what am I?
    The addiction is in me, now under control, but the pain buried deep inside aches.

    I do feel off to the world. I feel hollow and as much as try to run from this feeling, it catches up with me.

    I have never experienced this as my life was filled with narcissists. Now that I am on my own, I see the hollowness aching and there are days I miss the noise but that noise doesn’t satisfy.

    I know I am sick. But sometimes just coming across that narc energy brings some respite to this pain.

    Very few people understand this. I am damaged and I know it. I just don’t know what is damaged and how to fix it.

    1. Joanne says:

      I feel this in some way. When he does reach out there is an initial excitement (or is it relief?) but the words he types are hollow. I know what he is now and to let go and give in to his overtures would mean he’s winning, while secretly laughing at me. And I too feel off and changed. This makes zero sense to me, we hardly had much of an affair at all. I should be over this by now.

      1. Twisted Heart says:

        I also feel the same and very alone in this. Sometimes I wonder if reading this stuff is making it harder to move on but talking to friends about it isn’t helping since they haven’t gone through it. It was only a few months of my whole life but it has shattered my soul. I keep coming back to this blog because it is the only place I can find answers and validation that what i went through was real. Unfortunately it has opened up a whole can of worms of childhood traumas that I thought I had dealt with. It’s been two months of no contact and he’s still very vivid in my dreams. It would be nice to start and end my day without him in my mind. I need to reread Exorcism I think. I’m also going to do and EMDR session with my therapist. Does anyone else have any advice to help me get some distance from this?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          No, reading this work is required, if you are struggling to move on it is because of other factors. This work will move you forward but it has to be understood and more importantly applied. Your ET will cause you to question remaining here or doing anything to stay away from the narcissist, because your ET wants you to engage with the narcissist. It is akin to a voice in your head telling you not to take your medicine because it will not work, when actually it does. Two months of no contact is not a long time at all. If you want to tackle your repeated thinking I can assist you with that through a consultation and believe me it works.

          1. Kathy Mor says:

            Mmmm now you got me thinking. I may need a consultation. I am stuck not about moving on but other factors are keeping me stuck in my own feelings

          2. HG Tudor says:

            You know where to engage me should the need arise.

          3. Kathy Mor says:

            HG, I will be sending you an email shortly…

        2. Mercy says:

          Twisted Heart, at times I felt like reading this stuff made it harder too but it was the only place that I found answers. After some time I noticed that I wasn’t thinking about him anymore and what I was reading was making me stronger. Just keep reaching out, you are not alone.

          I did EMDR. It helped me work through some things beyond the narcissist. I hope it goes well for you

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you Mercy and well done.

          2. Mercy says:

            Thank you HG

        3. Joanne says:

          It’s pretty insane how even a small amount of time with these types can have such a massive impact. I have separated from some other online support groups I’d been participating in, largely because of the circular patterns the victims were caught in. Those groups were holding me back. At least everyone here has done the reading and research and are on a path to freedom or at the very least on a path to harnessing logical thinking. It’s been more than two months since I’ve seen him and I no longer wake with this being my first morning awareness. He haunts me throughout the day and night but more through anger than ruminations at this point. Reading the articles helps me to see what he really is, how he will never change, how he cannot be “fixed,” how I am not at fault and how he will be this way (and probably worse) with the next woman. It’s as if with every article, covering a different scenario, I have a new aha moment. It also helps to read the stories and perspectives of the contributors. I’ve also read a few of HGs books including exorcism. SATN was also key in pouring cold water on the nonstop romanticizing I had been doing. Aside from this, I wish I knew how else to get some distance, but it just seems to be a very slow process. I’m really tired of narcissism research taking up this much of my life but if I wasn’t reading, I know I’d still be thinking, and those thoughts would be driven by emotions. Dangerous.
          At some point I’ll probably seek therapy as well, as I too am uncovering some past traumas. Definitely consider the consultation. It got me over a big hurdle in this whole process.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            You are moving forward, keep it going.

          2. Joanne says:

            Thank you, HG. Small steps but forward nonetheless.

        4. K says:

          Twisted Heart
          You will find validation and all your answers here. What you went through was real and everyone on narcsite understands you. I read and posted my way through my addiction and misery and it took me about a year to get better. You are not alone; we are all here for you.

      2. Ok HG. I will book a consultation soon. You’re not gonna yell at me though right? I don’t know if I could handle that in this emotional state!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Of course not, I never shout at clients or readers (unless they are a little hard of hearing and ask for me to speak up or if I am doing some hoovering and it’s noisy).

      3. Lori says:

        In my opinion Narcissistx seek those out that they sense have had some kind of trauma in their past. These people come into our lives and highlight what within us needs work. We are not chosen by chance, we are chosen because they too can also inherently sense a woundedness in us. They are like lions that have sensed prey is within their grasp

        1. Bekah B says:


          I agree with this completely.. They seek out those who are emotionally vulnerable, having an uncanny ability to sense this (for one reason or another) and they then play on whatever coping mechanism the person developed over time to feel better about themselves, as it relates to other people.. Like in my case, I feel better about myself when I am helping others, being a natural service-oriented person.. It feels better to reach outside of myself and focus on others than to deal with my own issues and pain, and this is something about me that my narcissist exploited..

    2. marinathemermaid3 says:

      Sounds to me like you are grieving. I felt very similar after my sister died. Very off, for almost a full year. It is normal to grieve the death of a relationship, whether or not the partner has actually died. Give yourself some time and much self care. And stop insisting that there’s something wrong with you. Change your inner dialogue and tell yourself how strong and awesome you are! You will heal.

    3. Bekah B says:

      Kathy Mor,

      Thank you so much for expressing this.. I can relate to all that you wrote.. I also feel damaged now, having been exposed to narcissism in my adult life in a romantic capacity, and now knowing there is no way to overcome this but to let go and realize that I really and truly fell in love with a façade, not a genuine, “real” person that actually cared for me or my well-being.. I am adamant now about not getting in a relationship with anybody else for fear of being emotionally vulnerable with him and this eventually being exploited and turned against me.. I also fear conflict situations with any potential new person, knowing it is now well within my capacity to be manipulative and passive aggressive — a byproduct of having been ensnared by my mid-ranger for so long and adapting his ways in order to just survive.. I just feel really empty, day in and day out, knowing I still have that magnetism to attract certain types of people who could possibly benefit me in some way, but knowing I’ll never fully act on our interaction and open up ever again because of how I am entirely hurt to my core about this narcissistic experience in my life..

      I also relate to you feeling a bit of respite when engaging in the “realm of narcissism”, whether it’s through this site, other websites that showcase and discuss cluster B personality disorders, or directly engaging with a narcissist.. I feel like I’m a bit at ease and in balance when I have talked to the narcissist father of my child(ren), and that I become “me”, opening up and providing the light of optimism and altruism, in contrast to his much darker persona that lurks on the inside.. Otherwise, like you, I question myself and my motives, asking “Who am I? What am I all about? What do I stand for?”

      1. marinathemermaid3 says:

        Ah Bekah B. I don’t know you but I think you’re awesome! Hang in there and you will learn to trust again and be the amazing loving woman that you are!

        1. Bekah B says:


          Aww, thank you saying that!! It really does mean a lot to me.. The other half of my brain (or maybe heart) does sometimes whisper to me that one day I will be able to open up and trust again.. But as of now, I am adamant about not dating anyone.. There are men who claim they just want to “get to know me”.. Nope, not happening.. I have too much going on.. Lol

      2. Kathy Mor says:

        I have been exposed to narcissism my entire life. It was all I knew in terms of relationships, including romantic ones. I just learned what was wrong with my family after I found this web site. And I found this web site because I needed to understand what was happening with my ex. So I have layers and layers of this. How I didn’t turn into a narcissist myself can only be explained by brain structures because everything else was there, set right to go.
        It changes form and shape depending on who you talk about. For instance, if you talk about matrinarc, a whole set of issues surfaces. If you talk about my past relationships, things can get very convoluted in terms of the types of narcissists they were. If you mentioned my ex, then a lot of anger surfaces. My father? Indifference. I wish I could say that I had only one relationship. But no. I was raised by narcs, married one, dated them, had them as friends, etc…. I know I am damaged because I can feel the confusion, the morphing of my emotions into feelings that I am not aware of until something sets them off., the unbearable pain that comes out as a nasty and quiet anger. I am known to rip people apart when they push my triggers and I have no remorse. I beat dead horses and I enjoy doing. Push my trigger and watch bullets coming out of my mouth in a quiet but lethal manner. That’s the level of my pain. Then everyone says: you gotta let go.
        Let go of what? My whole entire life????

        I am not consciously holding on to it. It is there and I can’t fix it on my own. So I wake up every new day hoping that this will clear up. If it is not the pain, it is the emptiness.

        “Unending pain” is what he wrote last. Meaning that my silence and absence are causing him unending pain.

        I smiled. Welcome to my world, that is, if he is indeed in pain which I doubt. Perhaps he won’t be able to find a grade A supplier this time? The only thing I am capable of giving him is nothing.

        I am not adamant about not getting into a relationship. I actually want to experience a normal guy. It should be THE experience to be able to share feelings, experience the flow going both ways… fear is not my deterrent. Anger is the danger, at this point.

        1. Bekah B says:

          Kathy Mor,

          Wow, that took a lot of courage to express all that you did.. I can only imagine how you feel so damaged because of your vast exposure to such toxic relationships with various people within your life.. I’ll say this though: although I can relate to your feeling of being damaged, try to look at the bright side of this, in which you are not considered a narcissist, as this site describes.. You have gained insight and awareness of what drives these people to do what they do and what the considerable backlash is of their ways.. You have been hurt and I believe that is a lot of where your anger comes from.. Anger avoided and unmanaged is liable to slip and lash out towards people, ripping them apart when you are triggered, as you put it.. But that is okay because it is totally a human experience that can be overcome with diligent work.. It is okay to feel what you feel, even though it may hurt and cause you pain, but as long as you behave and act in an effective manner, you will be alright.. Please find solace and comfort in your desire to have a real relationship with a non-toxic person, using that as validation within yourself that you are not toxic, but instead have unresolved anger and pain that you will work on, so when the time comes for you to have that real relationship that you desire, you will be ready.. Hang in there.. 🙂

          1. Kathy Mor says:

            I am still waiting for my schedule to be posted so I can see which days I have available to schedule with you. I know you need time to be able to set a time as well so that is the difficulty at the moment. Issues at the hospital are keeping this in delay.

            meanwhile, he is bombarding me. Literally bombarding me from all directions and I feel I can’t breathe.

            It began with text messages that he sent to the old number. I never answered. Then it escalated to emails. Again, no response from me. Then he made a song for me (he is a musician). No answer from me.

            Then his narc daughter sent me an email apologizing for coming between me and her father. She asks me to talk to him again. I didn’t answer her.

            Yesterday he came here to the house and I was at work. He expected me to be here. He delivered a gift with a handwritten letter, similar content of his messages.

            Then finally last night he called the old number and left a long message.

            He could barely talk. You can feel the weight of his emotions overcoming him. he struggles to talk. He didn’t expect me cutting him off like this. Yes the worst you can do to a narcissist is never talk to them. I see now the injury as he is desperate. He lost himself. It feels to me that he is coming apart. Like a building falling down piece by piece as he struggles to hold to some hope that I am coming back. . I can feel what he feels. I don’t like the lack of control I am sensing because I know this is escalating inside of him. I can feel the anger for now being overcome by his “pain” or whatever that is but I know it will erupt.
            I know he won’t let me go without a good fight… if not worse. Much worse. I know the anger will come out. I need to get out of here. Move physically away. I need to.

            I am just trying to avoid at all costs allow my own emotions to mix with his. I can’t and I won’t empathize with his pain even if I can feel where it is coming from because i can’t go “there” any longer. it is not the same pain. I don’t want to get mixed with him and yet for splits of a second I feel that thing inside of me and I panic.

            I swear God if I could I would put you physically between him and me.

            Of course he doesn’t know what he is but he is exactly what you have described and that’s why I only feel comfortable with you about expressing myself in this manner. You understand exactly. I am struggling trying to stay myself as I am being hunted down. I am sorry I am not trying to make this a consultation. I just have to vent. If I don’t vent I cannot think. And I cannot vent with people I don’t trust and those who don’t know me deep enough.
            You know my sickness inside. That’s why I come to you. And then of course I have to deal with my matrinarc as well which between these two narcs it feels that I am being stabbed over and over in the same wounds. This has uncovered so many childhood abuse… holding my anger inside is taxing.

    4. Bekah B says:


      When I first discovered your site in October of 2017, I had been seeing my therapist for about 5 months and we had not yet developed a course of action and true therapy for me.. We spent a lot of time still discussing what recently had gone on with me in the weeks prior and how to rectify it.. I told her about your website, books, and all of the insight you provided about narcissism, coming from the best point of view: the narcissist himself.. Maybe only two or three weeks (= sessions) went by before she suggested that I back away from my subscriptions to your posts and really start to focus on me and healing me (although I didn’t really know how to begin to do that).. She believed that me spending time daily to read your work was keeping me connected to my narcissist and distracting me from healing my own self effectively.. I tried her suggestion, but over the course of time, as you have seen, I have been back here to read, re-read, comment, and engage with you and the other users of this site.. I just don’t tell her about it anymore..

      Do you believe there is any validity in her opinion?

      1. HG Tudor says:


        I understand her stance because she has (presumably) identified that you have been ensnared by a narcissist and therefore concludes that reading about the subject from a narcissist will not help. I suspect she formed this view on zero evidence and it was a general statement she thought was sound without recognising the value of the material here. It is a response which does not surprise me. I have several psychologists and psychotherapists who kindly and sensibly advocate my material and also refer people to consult with me. Often the professional joins the audio consultation. The progress made by our mutual client speaks for itself. Those professionals recognise the value in my work and furthermore are ‘big enough’ to see it as an addition to their own work and are not afraid of advocating it.

        Reading the work here does not maintain a preoccupation with the narcissist. The preoccupation is already there and what happens is that your ET suggests no longer reading or accepting the well-intended but misguided recommendation that you move away from the site to stop you learning and understanding so you do not make progress. I accept at times my work may make some people uncomfortable (just like some treatments are not always pleasant) but I know it is effective and the testimonials and daily emails of thanks and gratitude from readers and clients supports that. By reading here and applying my work, you will move forward and then you will find that you will read here and feel nothing with regard to the narcissist. I am sure if you ask some of the established readers such as Windstorm, NarcAngel, K, FM1T, Contagion, SMH and others besides they will tell you that they remain here not because they feel stuck, that they use me as a narc substitute but because they have reached a position whereby they are unaffected by their narcissist so they can remain here and read to further their interest, to help others and then enjoy the interaction with me and other readers. Nobody is compelled to remain here and nobody is criticised for departing – some reach a point of progress and move on, not because they feel they are being adversely affected by remaining, but because they have got all they need and that’s a great outcome for them.

        I can guarantee that if you had consulted with me weekly (as I assume you do with your therapist) I would have got your further forward in a shorter time than 5 months.

        1. Bekah B says:


          Thank you for your very sound response to my question.. I agree with you that her recommendation was well-intended, but misguided.. I did try to repeatedly explain to her your perspective as a narcissist when describing to her different situations and circumstances that arose between me and my narcissist and why he did what he did, according to your work, but almost every time I did that, she offered insight that I needed to take in and act on for myself — not so much analyzing my narcissist’s behavior.. She has stated he seems to have traits of narcissism and anti-social pd and I have let her hear a recorded phone call conversation between my narc and the guy I was trying to date, and she has stated he is very manipulative.. She generally describes my narcissist as damaged, emotionally and impulsively driven, and incapable of empathy.. However, there is one thing that she tells me that really “gets” me every time: she says she believes my narcissist really does love me, in his own way that is self-centered, and it is not the way I need to be loved.. Every time I hear her say that, it causes a surge of cognitive dissonance within me because I have been taught through you that the narcissist is incapable of loving, and the mid-range narcissist in particular really believes he cares and loves, but he does not.. So then I am stuck in “head vs. heart” mode, trying to overcome that statement for several days.. Smh..

          I believe my therapist tries to consider my emotions and emotional thinking, but she often reminds me that I must get into a “wise-mind place” where I think and lead with my brain, instead of my heart.. I think that’s her way of advocating logical thinking, except she does not offer what to think most times when it comes to my narcissist: instead she leaves it up to me to figure it out because she knows I have strong feelings for him.. So then, that’s where you, HG, come in.. I can’t figure out the logic on my own, so I read the articles and comments of this site, trying to come up with straight, logical, unbiased analyses of what has happened.. Not only do I get that, but I also receive the answer as to why it has happened.. And the answer is always the same: fuel.. Everything is done in the name of fuel.. Leave it to me, I’d say my narcissist came around because he needed my and only my comfort.. Leave it to my therapist and she’d say he is used to me, comfortable with me, and feels emotionally connected to me.. But you’d tell me he required fuel and wanted to maintain his control of me because I am his appliance.. And the latter sounds so horrid to me, as an individual, it encourages me to no longer deal with someone who thinks of me as an appliance.. So I am forever grateful, HG, for your decision to maintain this website and produce all of the literature that you do that describes how you and your kind operate and why it is in the best interest of people who have a different perspective in life to stay very far, far away.. I will stay here and continue to read, continue to consult with you, and purchase your books, because you are one of a kind and I am sure this opportunity to gain theeeee best insight into the mind of a true narcissist will never happen again..

          Thank you, HG..

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Thank you, your therapist is evidently providing you with constructive assistance and is wanting you to apply logic albeit she is not advocating that in a direct manner which is often required. The combination of her form of guidance support combined with my unique and effective insight and advice is clearly producing dividends for you.

      2. K says:

        Bekah B
        Freedom is guaranteed through the House of Tudor, no exceptions.

        Staying on narcsite has helped me become more compassionate, understanding and prosocial. I do not feel stuck, quite the opposite actually (I can leave Hotel California now), HG is not a substitute narc and being here doesn’t feed the addiction.

        It is very nice to spend time on narcsite with everyone while I continue to learn about NPD, direct people to articles that may be helpful or provide the occasional answer to a reader’s question so s(he) can move forward quicker.

        Currently, I am helping a young lady (empath; a rarity!) IRL deal with her family, all narcissists. She knows that I learned everything from HG and I am transferring that knowledge to her and she knows exactly what to do now and how to spot them.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you K.

          1. K says:

            My pleasure HG.

        2. Bekah B says:


          I always appreciate your replies to my comments and your for sure compassion that you demonstrate to others, as well as myself.. I know of you well and every time I take a hiatus of commenting on the articles, but eventually come back, you are here.. Thanks for your loyalty and reliability.. You definitely provide those explanations, analyses, and quick links!! (lol) that I sincerely appreciate, every time.. 🙂

          1. K says:

            You are welcome Bekah B!
            And thank you for your kind words. We are all here for you and this is the best place to get the help you need.

      3. marinathemermaid3 says:

        No matter how good the therapy, don’t get stuck in the healing! There is always a time to move on! It’s the same with grief. Allow yourself as much time as you need but eventually you gotta pick yourself up and start over. That does not mean forgetting the ones you’ve loved and lost, it just means healing the wounds, realizing that you’re stronger that you think you are, and going out and having some fun! If you remain immersed in your wounds you will actually prolong the healing.

        1. Bekah B says:


          Oooohhh, thank you for that advice and you hit it right on the money for me at this time in my life!! Eventually comes the time to move on and I just know I am not there yet.. I feel as this pregnancy progresses and my narcissist is further absent, I will keep on in the journey of letting go and moving on, though.. I will try my best to get out of this wallowing of my hurt and pain, but believe me, it is incredibly difficult right now..

          Also, I was born in Hackensack, NJ, USA on November 28, 1990 at 11:58 pm.. Lol 🙂

      4. marinathemermaid3 says:

        Come H.G. Your insight is valuable but not required,no matter what the Tudorettes say. A lot of it reads like a gothic horror novel, which is totally cool.

      5. I had the exact same concerns Bekah! Thank you HG for this response. I did unsubscribe from the notifications because they come like clockwork (grooming) to the point of addiction. I still check in daily but at my own will now.
        It gives me so much hope to know that the vets on here can testify to being unaffected by their narcs now. A light at the end of a very dark tunnel!

        1. Bekah B says:

          Twisted Heart,

          I, too, used to get push notifications through the WordPress app, but now I am only subscribed to the emails, which contain the actual articles and is SUPER convenient for me.. I wish I could upload a screenshot of my inbox.. I have them categorized based on topic or theme.. Some include: “Hoover”, “Devaluation”, “Discard (Disengagement)”, “Silent Treatment”, “Lesser”, “Mid-Range”, “Greater”, “The Empath”, “Polls”, and on and on and on.. 🙂

      6. marinathemermaid3 says:

        Btw Bekah B., I do astrological charts. It is very intricate and involved. I need the exact time and location of birth.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I will give you mine. The Dawn of Time, Hades.

          1. Persephone says:

            I knew you were my Narc!

      7. Contagion says:

        Bekah B

        I have been here almost three years now and have never been affected as replacing or having HGs work keep me bound to my ex.

        I have a unique situation dealing with my ex that no therapist could have helped me with. HG grasp what I was quickly and let me know he understood (not in a sympathetic way) so I could open up more and he could give me accurate information of dealing with my situation.

        I stay because he is the one person I know understand my perspective, doesn’t pity me, stays logical and doesn’t affect me like everyone else here does. He has the answers to my questions, I am also on a forum that is being work through to minimize the midrangers that infest it. He answers my questions in what would be the best ways of handling things.

        Speaking of which HG, an admin was flushed out last night.

        Two of us are well educated in your works and a third is learning.

        That is one of my reasons why I am still here.

        Change won’t happen sitting on my tail.

        1. HG Tudor says:


        2. Bekah B says:


          Thank you for sharing your experiences with HG and the reasons why you are still here.. I take it HG was able to provide to you insight about you being a contagion empath and that helped you to better understand yourself and navigate your way through dealing with your situation.. That is pretty cool.. I may consult with him soon for him to shed light on the type of empath I am..

          1. Contagion says:

            Bekah B

            No HG didn’t help me understand being a Contagion I am fully aware, he impressed me that he actually was able to identify what I was. Once this was established things became easier and comfortable when speaking with him.
            He is the only one that actually understands my perspective. Getting a Contagion to open up can be a difficult task.
            He helped me understand what happened to my ex when I did what I did out of anger and not love. It is something I never want to experience again.

            I have gone under two different names here. I have changed them as I changed. DFA and Twilight are me.

          2. Bekah B says:


            Oh okay, thanks for helping me to better understand you. Question: Have you written a letter to your narcissist that HG has posted?

          3. Contagion says:

            Bekah B

            This was a journal entry of mine I asked HG if I could use, I wrote it not long after I left my ex.


      8. Sarah says:

        Bekah B

        It is a shame to think you feel like you have to hide such an important part of your recovery from the person you have engaged to help you; your therapist.

        Taking the time to explore the complexity of the dynamic you have experienced from varying perspectives is such an important part of renewing your relationship with yourself. Understanding the narcissistic perspective is vital to our safety and HG provides such a unique space for us here to develop this understanding in a caring and supportive environment.

        I have followed the blog for 12 months now. I made a commitment to myself to read it daily as a reminder of how grateful I am to have removed myself from the N’s master plan. HG’s materials provide both clarity and reality for me. Sometimes I need this more than others, but I have found that maintaining a connection with this blog prevents me from slipping back into the escapism and fantasy the Golden Period elicited in me all those years ago.

        I spent over 10 years trying to make sense of the narcissistic dynamic on my own. Narcsite has helped me come full circle, it has assisted me to accept responsibility for my part in the narrative and shift my focus toward healthier boundaries and relationships for myself and my children.

        Please stay connected to narcsite because it sounds like you enjoy it, you are drawn to it and it is important to you. After all you have been through you deserve the freedom to learn about and understand your relationship and the full context surrounding it. As you well know, HG is special because he is plugged into our mindset (as well as his own), he is responsive and insightful. I wouldn’t give that up for anyone.

        Sending you the best ever wishes for your recovery xx

        1. Bekah B says:


          Thank you so much for your reply.. I agree with you 100% that understanding multiple perspectives is essential for recovery within the relationship with self.. And it is a shame that I do choose to withhold certain information from my therapist about what I learn here on Narcsite, out of fear of her believing I am preoccupying my time and energy on my narc, instead of myself.. Hopefully as I learn to be stronger and stand firmer in my own two shoes about my beliefs of myself and nobody else’s beliefs, I will share with her I am an expert in the insight and true understanding of how narcissists operate and how one can free themselves from the narcissist’s clutch, due to the great works of HG Tudor..

          I agree that his work is very clear, precise, succinct, and helpful.. And I am glad to hear that by you reading it daily, it reminds you not to fall back into convincing yourself the Golden Period is what was real, instead of only an illusion.. I am also glad to hear it has helped you establish healthy boundaries for not only yourself, but your children.. I most definitely hope the same for myself and my children.. I will stay here because I do like it and I believe it is beneficial to me, as it encourages me to maintain the lowest of contacts with my narc at this most delicate time in my life..

          Again, thank you so much for your reply and sharing how Narcsite has helped you in your journey..

      9. Alexissmith2016 says:

        I completely agree with HG and can only echo what he says.

        Even though I didn’t get a personal mention ahem!

        I’m a long term reader. I found HG when I was a couple of years Post escape.

        I enjoy reading his work and I would never return to the N. It took me a few years but I now feel completely unaffected by him in any way shape or form.

        This site has allowed me to learn about manipulation tactics Ns use in general and ensure I do not fall prey to them whilst at work, home or at play.

        I am most certainly a truth seeker and I need to understand everythjng in the minutest of detail. Whatever the subject matter may be. I accept that others don’t always need this.

        I have recommended HGs work to many people some of whom have not wanted to consider it others who willingly engage for a short period of time, enough for them to ‘move on’.

        I don’t feel ‘stuck’ in my recovery any more than a doctor would feel ‘stuck’ in their interest of medicine or a musician would feel ‘stuck’ in their love of music. I remain interested and continue to learn all the time.

        For me it has been healthy and rewarding. Learning from HG has personally saved me in many areas of my life.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you AM, you know I thought of you even though I didn’t mention your name!

        2. Bekah B says:

          Thank you sharing that Alexissmith2016.. I’m loving all of these testimonials.. Lol

      10. Alexissmith2016 says:

        Agh! Who is AM?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          AS naturally (just teasing you before!)

          I mean GH
          I mean HT
          I mean HC
          No, HG. That’s it HG!

    5. windstorm says:

      Kathy Mor
      I went thru something similar. Focus on yourself. Learning about yourself, focusing on new interests. It just takes time. You just have to get thru it and things will get easier and brighter.

    6. ANK says:

      ‘the pain buried deep inside aches.’
      ‘I feel hollow and as much as try to run from this feeling, it catches up with me.’

      Exactly this. Don’t think the pain will ever go away. It rears up every so often despite trying to go NC mentally.

  5. Blondie says:

    Bet your a virgo…they say that virgos are great in bed ,eager to please but never really comit and are deep dark sensitive soles my ex narc was a virgo and i never knew him really he was a lone wolf…. !!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I am. You are of course free to form your own views with regard to astrology, here’s mine – it’s nonsense.

      1. Nika says:

        I agree that astrology is utter nonsense.

      2. Blondie says:

        I hear you …

      3. WiserNow says:


        I imagine your logical thinking would cause you to say that, but I disagree. It’s not nonsense. If you study the deeper relevance of planet and house meanings, there’s some insightful information there. It’s not a science that can be proven, but it’s often true regardless.

        For instance, Virgos are said to enjoy or feel a need to be of help or service to others. Virgo is ruled by the planet Mercury, which has a symbolic personality of open-mindedness, new ideas and intelligence. The influence of Mercury on Virgo, which is an earth sign, is that it gives substance to ideas and makes them real rather than ephemeral. In Virgo, the planet Mercury makes ideas manifest into a physical form. I think all of those ‘meanings’ describe you very well, HG.

        I know it probably sounds like nonsense to you, but if you spent time studying astrology with an open mind and with some depth, you would recognise the meanings more clearly.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you WN. It is not something I give credence to but if it works for other people and they see a foundation in it all, then fair enough. My scepticism admittedly is founded on the astrology seen in daily newspapers which was vague that it could be interpreted any number of different ways (which of course was deliberate) and I choose my own path, not have it dictated to me by the stars in the heavens above!

          1. WiserNow says:


            In the case of the daily papers, I think that kind of superficial forecasting type of astrology is fairly meaningless, so I see where your scepticism comes from. However, none of us has “chosen” our path. Our fate is something that we can’t control. Also, the stars don’t ‘dictate’ anything. They are part of the Universe as are you and all of us.

            On second thoughts, why am I even trying to convince a Greater narcissist that he doesn’t actually have the ultimate control?!?! Never mind HG. Please do carry on… 🙂

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Ha ha, I am pleased my work has sunk in!

        2. E. B. says:

          Hello WiserNow,

          Although I do not believe in astrology, I respect your opinion.

          Re “Virgos are said to enjoy or feel a need to be of help or service to others. Virgo is ruled by the planet Mercury, which has a symbolic personality of open-mindedness, new ideas and intelligence.”

          Virgo family members, relatives and acquaintances of mine are/were just the opposite of that. They do not provide any help or care to others, are narrow-minded with an all-or-nothing way of thinking, which prevents them from looking at a situation from a different perspective and from dealing with conflict. They are highly likely to be LMRs and MMRs.

          I am supposed to be the most narcissistic in the zodiac. People who believe in astrology also say that the ascendant matters. Well, my ascendant belongs to one of the top narcissistic zodiac signs too.

          IMO, judging an individual by their zodiac sign is not very sensible.

          I find that HG is very open-minded, even more than normals and empaths I have met in real life.

          1. MB says:

            E. B. “I find that HG is very open-minded, even more than normals and empaths I have met in real life.”

            I agree. I find my Narc to be that way also.

          2. WiserNow says:

            Hello E.B.

            As far as the study of astrology is concerned, everyone is free to either think that it’s nonsense or take some interest in it. My comment was meant to provide an alternative view. I did not set out to promote or defend astrology. You are free to think as you wish, just as we all are.

            There are just a couple of things I want to point out in relation to your comment.

            You say, “I am supposed to be the most narcissistic in the zodiac” and that your “ascendant belongs to one of the top narcissistic zodiac signs”. I’m not sure where you got this information from. I’m not an expert on the subject, although I have taken an interest in some of the deeper meanings behind signs, planets and houses for a fairly long time now. I have never read or heard of any of the zodiac signs being either more or less narcissistic than any other. I’ve never seen any information about astrology that has described the signs like that. It doesn’t work that way.

            Zodiac signs are described as having particular traits or general characteristics. For instance, an earth sign will have certain traits that are different from a fire sign or a water sign etc. These ‘traits’ can have positive or negative sides to them and it’s then a case of the individual with that zodiac sign either controlling or being influenced by whatever side their personal traits fall on, whether they be more positive or negative etc. No sign is automatically narcissistic or non-narcissistic.

            Since you have described certain zodiac signs as being the “top narcissistic signs” it suggests to me that you may have a fairly superficial understanding of the subject and have taken certain aspects that you know about and formed an impression of the whole subject based on the assumptions that you’ve made.

            This is why I said (in my earlier comment) that if HG had a deeper understanding of the subject, he may see things a little more clearly.

            The other point you made was that, “HG is very open-minded, even more than normals and empaths I have met in real life”. I’m not really sure what this has got to do with the above comments on astrology. As a subject of study, astrology has been around for many centuries. Astrology, or “study of the stars”, was in existence thousands of years before Christ (BC). It wasn’t always used to predict a person’s fate or fortune. That aspect of it is relatively recent.

            Just because HG thinks that something is nonsense, doesn’t mean that suddenly the whole world is supposed to follow suit and think it’s nonsense too. HG is great in many ways, but I don’t think we need to base our entire historical and universal knowledge on “the Gospel of HG Tudor”. There is room for disagreement. If disagreement does occur, it doesn’t mean that either side is more or less “open-minded” than the other.

            Anyway, these were my thoughts when I read your comment.

      4. Bekah B says:

        Lol.. I never believed in astrology and horoscopes, but always found the compatibility descriptions of the signs entertaining.. How about the 16 personality types, HG? Are you familiar with those, and if so, do you believe the typing of your particular personality (you may have to take the test) is accurate?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I know of them but as I stated some time ago, I found them open to too much interpretation without a context.

        2. MB says:

          Bekah B, I found the 16 personality types to be so accurate it was scary! When I took that test and saw the results, I felt more understood than ever before in my life. Thanks for reminding me. Also, I took it again a couple of years later and got the same result. Thank you for reminding me. I’m going to go through my email and find it. The test is free. (Or at least it was when I took it.)

          1. Bekah B says:


            It is such a wonderful thing to be understood, isn’t it? Lol.. According to that test, my personality type is ISFP and I agree with the descriptions.. I hope you’ve found that email so I can know yours as well.. 🙂

          2. MB says:

            Bekah B, here it is…

            Your personality type: “The Campaigner” (ENFP-T)
            Strength of individual traits: Extraverted: 73%, Intuitive: 61%, Feeling: 85%, Prospecting: 78%, Turbulent: 81%.
            Role: Diplomat
            Strategy: Social Engagement

          3. Bekah B says:


            Thank you so much for sharing.. Your percentages are very interesting — you lean on only one side of the spectrum for all traits they test.. I can’t remember my exact percentages, but every time I take this test, my Intuitive vs. Sensing and Judging vs. Prospecting scores are very close.. I am glad to be an ISFP, though.. I’ll be sure to read up on the ENFP.. I do not believe I know one personally..

          4. MB says:

            Bekah, I’m glad you enjoyed it. I like to think I’m one of a kind! Ha ha. I don’t study that, so I don’t know how it compares and everything. I took the test twice a few years apart and came up with nearly exactly the same result. When I looked into the detail of it all behind the numbers, nearly everything resonated. I don’t know how they do it, but this test had me pegged!

      5. Twisted Heart says:

        My last narc was a Gemini (the twins – dual personality). He knew nothing about astrology until I met him. I swiped across him on a dating site a few weeks ago and he added Gemini to his profile🤣 That’s a good cover!!! I guess Narcissistic Psychopath wouldn’t have the same allure when hunting for his next victim.
        For the record, I don’t put too much stock into star signs anymore. I now realize it’s just another way to excuse people’s shitty behaviour.

      6. Anm says:

        Such a Virgo thing to say, HG.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I see what you did there, very good.

      7. Bubbles 🍾 says:

        Dear Mr Tudor,
        Then why is that my mum and the weasel both reference their horoscopes big time 🤔 both mid rangers, both into horoscopes n hoarding
        However, our greater friend has never mentioned his star sign, birthday yes… (presents) haha
        The weasel would read his (and mine) “Daily horoscope” to me constantly …. blah blah 🤢 blah
        I used to tell him it was very general and not to take it literally
        My mum moved house because of reading from a clairvoyant …. go figure 🔮
        Luv Bubbles xx 😘

      8. mommypino says:

        Haha! Thank you Bubbles!

        I honestly don’t believe in zodiac signs as well, but I just noted in my mind that little similarity that they have. But it really doesn’t mean anything.

        When I was at the thick of my ET with that narc, I wanted to see signs that he really was my soul mate. I didn’t know that he was a narc then. I wanted some green light to be given to me because all of my logic tells me to not throw away my beautiful family for this narc but my heart was telling me that my heart wants the narc. So as a typical Christian, I took the Bible and thought that whatever message I see in whatever page I opened it at, that will be God’s message to me. And I was hoping that God will say that someday I will end up with that narc. But when I opened the Bible, the message that my eyes landed on said something like God protects his people from evil. And it was all about evil and was not the message that I wanted to see so I did it again. And the next message that my eyes landed on was something about delivery from evil again. So I wasn’t happy.

        So I stalked the narc’s FB page and found out that he was a Taurus which is supposed to be highly compatible with my zodiac. And my husband is an Aquarius which is incompatible with my zodiac. So it gave me a false rationalization on why he is really my soul mate at that moment. But now that I know what he is, I actually think that relying on zodiac signs is dangerous. We really shouldn’t judge people based on their zodiac signs. I never took zodiac signs seriously but I was desperate to find a way to rationalize my E.T. But now I’m so thankful that I found this blog and my eyes were opened to see the truth.

        Luv you Bubbles! 💕

      9. mommypino says:

        Hahaha! Bubbles, that’s probably what I needed lol. I have forgotten about magic 8 balls! 😂

    2. marinathemermaid3 says:

      I’m a Virgo! I don’t know how dark I am, or eager to please.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        No! I’m a Virgo!

      2. marinathemermaid3 says:

        Didn’t mean to insult you with the gothic horror comment. I really find it great writing! I’m working on a novel myself. Virgos are great writers.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          No offence taken, MtM3, there is some gothic with regard to my writing, it’s one way of getting the message across.

      3. Chihuahuamum says:

        Another virgo here 😄 sorry HG

    3. mommypino says:

      I’ve read somewhere that Tauruses tend to be narcissistic. Both my mid-range sister and the narc that I had a crush on are Tauruses.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Surely that’s a load of bull, Mommypino. Boom tish, aaaah fankyooo!

        1. MB says:

          HG “aaaah fankyooo!” that was so stinking cute

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Easy with the fuzzies there MB.

          2. MB says:

            Yes, but I got the stinking part right. The Taurus, remember?

        2. Bekah B says:

          Hilarious!!!! 😂😂😂 So clever you are, HG..

          1. HG Tudor says:

            I know and thank you.

      2. mommypino says:

        Thank you for the laugh HG! You and your clever puns. 😂😂😂

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are welcome and thank you for taking it in the intended spirit.

      3. Bubbles 🍾 says:

        Dear mommypino,
        My mum’s a bull !
        There you go… haha
        Luv Bubbles xx 😘

      4. Bubbles 🍾 says:

        Dear mommypino,
        Thank you lovely one for explaining your rationalisation … it made sense to you at the time and it’s what you needed
        We all internalise and somehow justify our decisions to reach our desired outcome ….. thankfully, you now know better

        A Magic 8 Ball may have proved more accurate 🎱
        (😱…..🤔…Hmmmmm, thats a good idea Bubbles, why didn’t I think of that earlier, I might just go out and buy one)
        Luv Bubbles xx 😘

        1. MB says:

          Bubbles, re magic 8 ball. I have one on my desk. I consult with it on the really tough decisions!

          1. Contagion says:


            I am exhausted
            When I read magic 8 ball I wasn’t thinking what you meant….
            I walked into a person house I knew long ago and they had a duffel bag full of the white powdery stuff…my smart ass mouth was like “Oh confection sugar” I walked out and never returned. Wasn’t getting put in cuffs that way and I wasn’t going to be shot over stupidity.

          2. MB says:

            Contagion, ha ha. No…I have a real, magic 8 ball on my desk. I consult it sometimes. It is usually more reliable that the company’s owner who refuses to make a decision!!

      5. Bubbles 🍾 says:

        Dear mommypino and MB,
        Caution: Before consulting your Magic 8 Ball make sure you are not on any medication and avoid alcohol. Do not operate Magic 8 Ball whilst operating machinery ie iPhone or computer or whilst driving a vehicle.
        May cause severe reactions with long term detrimental effects.
        Night time use is not recommended, you may show signs of hypersensitivity. In fact complete avoidance is highly recommended
        If symptoms of pain persist or an overdose is suspected or new systems appear, consult your nearest Narc advisor at Tudor Incarcerated on 24 hour free toll 666 666
        Warning ⚠️ Permanent brain damage may occur
        In built flash may cause blinding

        1 player only
        Not suitable for any age
        Store below -50c in a dark dark place, preferably unreachable

        Made in Narcville for the gullible from local and imported thought processing components
        Not to be used in conjunction with horoscopes
        No responsibility or liability will be held by Tudor Incarcerated
        Luv Bubbles xx 🤣

        1. MB says:

          Bubbles, you make me giggle! Believe me, the 8 ball makes better decisions than my boss does!

    4. Kathy Mor says:

      I am a Virgo myself and while I can care less about astrology, I was “forced” to write a paper about “popular beliefs” and my group was awarded with astrology. So, I hit the Jewish to get their documents. I must say that the descriptions are quite accurate as a general view.
      There was a video on YouTube back then named “the dark side of the Virgo woman” that got me smiling. Pretty accurate taking aside the fact that I would not steal from anyone, but I would throw his wallet in the dirty toilet. Just a variation of the description. Everything else was right on. Did it make me a believer? No. Do I care to ask someone their dob to find out about compatibility? No. Daily predictions? Bs.
      I don’t care about such things. After all, I am Virgo (sarcastic pun intended for those who don’t know me yet).

      1. NarcAngel says:

        Well I’m a Libra, so that should pretty well stick a fork in astrology from the little I’ve read.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Come on NA, we all know how well-balanced you are!

          1. NarcAngel says:

            Re: me being balanced.

            I sense sarcasm. Uh oh – my horoscope said that I am good at sensing things………

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Sarcastic moi? It must be the distraction of still awaiting Aunt Clara’s evidence of endorsement…….

          3. NarcAngel says:

            Re: Awaiting evidence of endorsement

            And you say you’ll have no truck with hope!

          4. HG Tudor says:

            Ha ha, oh there’s no hope involved, I already know the answer.

      2. Bibi says:

        All this astrology talk reminds me of the scene from Husbands and Wives, where Sydney Pollack has left his cerebral wife (played by Judy Davis) for this aerobics/health fitness bimbo who, while at a party is trying to convince his erudite, literati friends the importance of astrology and they all think she is an idiot.

        I have to feel sorry for her because she really is being herself and is one of the few genuinely nice characters but she simply doesn’t belong among this crowd, and he is embarrassed by her and goes on to treat her poorly.

        Hey, you get what you ask for.

        There is a funny scene where they’re both walking out of Kurosawa’s Ran and he says, ‘It’s King Lear! Shakespeare did not write a King Leo!’

        Her response, ‘Well smartypants, Shakespeare wrote in English, not Japanese!’

    5. Anm says:

      I recently got into Vedic Astrology. It is very interesting, and slightly different than Western Astrology. They believe your chart reveals your conscious, Karma (what you need to heal and learn from), and some of the events you could face because of this. I like this theory, because I believe if you heal, or align your life in certain directions, you can achieve different outcomes. Which is what Karma is really all about.

  6. KOREANDER says:

    I meant loser or unfortunate, wretch, sad sack.

  7. KOREANDER says:

    Only mermaid songs. A striped record. How can you be so exhausting? You make yourself hater. The sensation that they produce in me is of true disdain, disgust and deep hatred.
    The narcissistic victim is a pain in the ass.

  8. Koreander says:

    Solo cantos de sirena. Un disco rayado. Como podéis ser tan agotadores?

  9. Nika says:

    Yes, the Narcissnake enjoys provoking. 🐍 🐍 🐍

  10. Kensey says:

    Well, the Matri-Narc died.
    My Ex Lesser’s Mother that he wished everyday would die, has left.
    Faux-Love/Real-hate relationship. The Narc mommy & lesser son did this sick dance.
    Matri-Narc really was horrid. Called her own daughter a wallflower & and her son a failure.
    What exactly does he feel now that she is finally gone?
    Does she live on in his head?
    I did get some background from Matri Narc over the years..
    She was given to her grandmother at 3 yrs old, by her own mother, to raise because she was a “difficult child”
    I saw once a photo of her mother with her & all the other brothers,sisters. Her mother’s arms were crossed,standing so to block her kids, whilst talking, smiling. Bravado.
    It gave me a real chill that photo.
    How deep and how far back can this go?

    1. K says:

      Generations. I traced it back to my great-grandparents.

      1. Kensey says:

        Thanks K . Wow seriously.

        1. K says:

          You are welcome Kensey
          Oh, yes! Five generations in total. I am vastly outnumbered.

          1. windstorm says:

            I bet that’s not nearly as uncommon as people may think, if they could look back and understand their ancestors. I can trace narcs back to my great-grandparents because I was an avid listener to family stories. People who’s family tried to hide bad behavior or who just had no access to stories probably have narc ancestors too, they’re just not aware. I have no doubt that the only reason I can’t trace narcissism further back is just that those stories are lost.

          2. K says:

            If you think about it, narcissism is about survival/self-defence and, in many ways, it is brilliant. I imagine our ancestors relied on narcissism much more than empathy to get through the difficult times.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Narcissism is a self-defence mechanism full stop.

          4. K says:

            So is it a self-defence mechanism that allows you to survive, and thrive, in your reality?

            As a child, I relied more on my narcissistic traits than my empathy to “survive” but I am not a narcissist.

          5. HG Tudor says:

            It is.

          6. K says:

            You are right. It is purely a self-defense mechanism. You don’t need NPD to survive or thrive in the world.

            My narcissism comes to the fore when I am protecting myself.

          7. HG Tudor says:

            The self-defence mechanism facilitates surviving and thriving. We need it ; others do not.

          8. K says:

            Thank you HG
            In order to understand NPD better, I find it helpful to look at my own narcissistic traits and the impact/influence (good or bad) that NPD on my personality.

          9. windstorm says:

            True. But empathy was an essential aspect to living in harmony in groups. Both are equally important for a well-functioning society.

          10. K says:

            Empathy is very important too, however, I have 5 generations of narcissists who have survived with absolutely zero empathy and continue to do so, and I have been thinking about how NPD figures into Darwinism.

          11. Contagion says:

            Windstorm and K

            I think narcissism evolved into what it is today.

            The fact they have little to no fear could come in handy in times when hunting large animals or protection against outside forces. They had a different perspective them and the roles each had.

          12. K says:

            That is what I was thinking: did the evolution of narcissism shape NPD or did NPD shape evolution.

            And the Spartans, Huns and Vikings had to be fearless.

          13. Contagion says:


            Ha ha your last line of your comment made me laugh….when I was a child and still am fearless except when it comes to an MRI. I don’t like the way they make me feel.
            My grandmother would say it is in my blood and then tell me my blood was tainted. It took me awhile to understand what she meant, she held a deep hatred for my Father and that side of my family.

            I believe NPD is evolving society Not being evolved. It is changing society to fit their perspective.

            The first thing I use is my sense of the unseen….the world is becoming darker by creating the illusion of light. In other words they have the masses so focus on the left hand they won’t see the right until it is to late.

          14. K says:

            Ha ha ha…those ancient warriors were scary. Being fearless is a good quality, that is a gift and it is rare. I am sounded by fraidy-cats, sissies and Girlie men*. I agree; NPD (narcissism in its extreme form) is shaping society.

            It does feel like the world is becoming darker and it is disguised by a thin patina (facade) of light, which blinds the masses and hides the chaos, so we are compelled to go into the darkness to find the order. It makes me think of that song “Blinded by the Light”.

            *Girlie men is a pejorative term that was notably used by former California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger to characterize opponents in the state legislature of California over the state budget.

          15. NarcAngel says:

            I remember that song!

            Blinded by the light
            I found the guy I love’s a douche
            I’m gonna run off in the night……

            Good times.

          16. HG Tudor says:

            Whenever I think about blinded by the lights, I think of this and I laugh

          17. K says:

            Ha ha ha…that reminds me of a lesser wedding. Such fond memories.

          18. K says:

            Oh, yeah…good times to be had by all. Ha ha ha…that’s a well known mondegreen. “Billie Jean” by Michael Jackson has a funny mondegreen, too. The real lyric is: but the kid is not my son, however, it sounds like: The chair is not my son.

            Blinded by the light
            Revved up like a deuce
            Another runner in the night

          19. windstorm says:

            Do you mean that in 5 generations there were never any empaths? Don’t you have an empath sister?

            I know in my own family, yes there are always narcs, but there are also always empaths. I remember my grandmother telling me not to let the things my mother said and did tear me down. She said that the others (narcs) couldn’t survive without people like herself and me.

            We were the glue that held the family together. We made the house a home, looked after the children, cared for the sick. The others might see us as weak, but without us, everything would fall apart.

            As to empathy and Darwinism. Empathy may not be important to an individual’s survival on his own. But it plays a very important role in a group of individuals success and survival. And living/working together successfully in a group is a tremendous advantage to a species success and survival.

          20. K says:

            My sister is an empath and one of my cousins has five children and two (girls) are empaths and that is it.

            We are social beings and survival definitely depends on empathy, independence, interdependence and dependence but I was thinking about narcissism’s impact, both positive and negative, on evolution and how it has shaped society and civilization.

      2. mommypino says:

        K, Regarding narcissism and survival, I was thinking about survival cannibalism that happened in the Donner Party. Of course the descendants firmly deny that cannibalism has happened, but if it did, I wonder if an empath will be able to eat the remains of their loved ones if that was the only way that the empath can survive, given how deep our attachments tend to be.

        1. NarcAngel says:

          If thats what I need to do to survive fry em up! Although I’ll have to look around for some berries to sweeten up the Narc roast.

          1. K says:

            Ha ha ha….

        2. K says:

          You would be surprised at what an empath might be capable of doing in order to survive. However, it would be difficult-I think-if it were your child.

      3. mommypino says:

        Lol NA 😂. I can probably fry up other people but not my loved ones. But I’m not starving right now so I guess I wouldn’t really know unless I’m in that situation.

        1. NarcAngel says:

          You’d be surprised at what we’d do and lets hope that never happens, but if it does, remember the younger ones will be the most tender. Luckily I am one of the oldest. Prioritize a list. You can never be too prepared.

          1. MB says:

            NA, get the parrot after all. They’ll fry him up first! Save yourself! When they come for him, he’ll say “Are you fucking with me right now?”

      4. mommypino says:

        Actually, I’m in a contemplative mood lately and it seems like I have been looking at humanity with different eyes now. I used to think of people as either good or bad. And in my old point of view, if someone is in the middle (normals), they are also bad because they are not doing enough. Now I feel like HG’s work has given me the red pill and I just totally see everything in a different way, a nonjudgmental way of looking at different human nature, an accepting way. I don’t think in simplistic terms anymore of good or bad. I just see that we are all wired differently. Empaths and Narcissist’s seem to be polar opposites and the normals in the middle and I have come to accept the different traits and characteristics that each group has.

        The story about the Donner party is interesting to me because in that type of situation, you would really know what each person’s real constitution is. And I’m not judging anyone that would do anything to survive, it just means that survival is the most important thing for them. To some people, it is not. I just think that now with my new acceptance of who I am as well, whatever situation I end up in, I will do what I feel is true to myself. If I feel that there is something that is more important to me than survival, that is what so will do.

        And also, before, because I used to look in a good or bad perspective, whenever I see signs that a person has traits that I might think are bad, I get uncomfortable and immediately dismiss it in my mind. Now, in a nonjudgmental way, I can look at people with an honest and accepting way of their characteristics, and figure out if a relationship with this person will work with my characteristics or not.

        1. K says:

          Acceptance plays a big part in healing and moving forward.

      5. mommypino says:

        Haha K, so true! Sometimes I surprise myself as well when my narcissistic traits come to the fore, and then I get hit by massive guilt.

        That’s probably why I was having such a dilemma, I keep imagining my kids. I think that eating their remains will not even be a consideration for me. I would rather die. I don’t think that I can eat my husband either. And I might sound self righteous or hypocritical, but I can honestly see myself saying to them to eat me when I die.

        And again back to my red pill awakening from HG’s works, does that mean that I’m a weak person or a good person? Now I think neither. It just means that it is who I am and how I am wired. I will not strive to be someone else anymore. I will strive to be authentic to myself. And if I am wired in a way that survival is not my first priority, then so be it. I now believe that the way for me to live my life with no regrets is by always being true to myself.

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Ok, thanks for the green light. If it all goes Purge I’m eating you first. Could you lay off the dairy just in case? I’m lactose intolerant. Thanks much.

      6. mommypino says:

        Bahaha! NA, I’m so glad you’re over there in Canada. I would never go on a wagon train expedition with you. 😂🤣🤣🤣🤣

    2. Q says:

      As you all might know from previous comments, I don’t buy into the empath theory, maye because my own empaty has a scarce presence in my emotional life. I got to HG in spring last year, trying to understand what was wrong with me and my relationships. Then I started therapy. I went into therapy by telling my therapist I diagnosed myself with some kind of NPD/HPD, maybe some codependency too. After the first meetings he told me he doesn’t think so. Now, after 7 months, he tells me I was right from the beginning. Geee, doctor, thanks! I am happy to see traces of codependency dissipate but it worries me, becasue under all this mud I see the Narc-Me getting bigger. I have traced back NarcDom for at least 3 generation in my family, God knows what was before, I do not even want to think about it! Most of my own private & relevant relationships, narcs. I know I am not exactly like them, according to my therapist, there is chance for me, I do have some empathy. I know I do. But that instictual, deep, cold intelectual empathy that helps me “see” things about others in a split second. I have always felt like I never belonged, I have learned how I am supposed to feel to show sympathy or remorse or regret. But the truth is I don’t really feel them. This has been one big concern of mine since childhood. Other people seemed genuinely sad when their friends or family died or were ill or something bad had happened. I never felt that. I could never understand how people can be that broken about losing their pets or having a loss in the family. For a long time I thought they were pretending too, than I told myself they are week, then I stopped looking for explanations and faked it. But when my own mother died, I was devastated, I felt like the world was coming apart and the pain was unbelivable and huge and it uncapacitated me for a very long time. I felt the same when my husband was in danger or about to die. And now I have realised I was so deeply scared because I was afraid to be left alone, without them. I could not accept myself alone, without them. Felt like I could not function in “abandonment” mode. I was not mourning them, but I was mourning “me without them”, that was the excruciable pain… I have always thought that this is love. I have learned it is not, but I am still to learn what it is. This feeling and sex or being sexually desired- this is what I thought love is and apparently it is not. But every time I fall in love I feel happy for a while and I think this is how life should eternally be, only it is never like this for long and day to day regular reality and regular people seem like a mixture of boring and nonsense and rubbish. Most people who know me closer think I am “a bit crazy”, egotistical and special (I love it). I was told most women are not “built” like this. Well, this is how I am built and I do try to be a decent human being and most of the time I do think I am a decent human being. In my own head I feel exceptional and for fractions of time I feel horrible and shitty but deep down I know I am one of a kind and magnifique :))))) I know the truth is none of this. In the end, I am just a person living her life and figuring herself step by step. At 47…. I don’t think I could tell my therapist all this, so I put it here, it helps. But I also know that he knows it.

  11. Kelly B says:

    The sex was the best. If you could put it in a bottle. My god.. It would go on for hours. However he burned the bridge to ever having anything again.

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