How To Reduce Giving Fuel To The Narcissist

reduce fuel

Fuel is the lifeblood of our kind. Some refer to it as narcissistic supply (far too long and does not convey what is does for us) or the ghastly “supply” (admittedly shorter but inaccurate). Fuel is any emotional response to something we have said, done or caused. In order to understand in detail what it is, how it originates and your role in this you should read Fuel : What Makes the Narcissist Function

In fact, that book is a must read in order to understand fuel and to enable you to achieve your freedom from the narcissist. Fuel is behind everything that we do.

If we cannot obtain fuel from an appliance then that will force us to seek fuel elsewhere. Sometimes it causes an immediate withdrawal and sometimes it will take time for this retreat to occur, but it will happen.

If the provision of fuel is very low, infrequent  and/or acquiring it proves particularly difficult, this will also result in the narcissist ultimately selecting alternative appliances for the provision of his or her fuel needs.

Accordingly, cutting off the provision of fuel is a key component of achieving your freedom from us. The most obvious route to doing this is by implementing a robust no contact regime. If we cannot interact with you in any way whatsoever, we cannot obtain any fuel from you and this lack of fuel acts to assist in keeping the Hoover Bar high and thus the risk of future hoovers low. Striving for a total no contact has to always be your aim.

However, what of those situations where total no contact has not been achieved or maintained? What about those situations where there is interaction between you and the narcissist, how do you manage those situations so you provide the least fuel? First of all you should understand that what follows in this article should not be regarded as an alternative to no contact. You cannot opt for this approach. Do not think that you can choose between total no contact and an alternative which is less than no contact – if you do, failure awaits. The purpose of this article is to cover two situations where total no contact has not arisen :-

  1. The Ambush. You may have moved house, blocked numbers, changed numbers, moved jobs, jettisoned certain risky social groups and put in place various measures which has resulted in a solid no contact. Even then, you may just happen to bump into the narcissist walking down the street, at an event or possibly somewhere you did not expect to. Other than live as a hermit in a cave in the mountains, you cannot legislate for this as part of your no contact regime and you have been unfortunate to be ambushed in this manner. The narcissist may have planned to do this or it may just be coincidence, but either way, you have a face to face meeting with the narcissist; and/or
  2. Legitimate Exceptions to Total No Contact. Let me make this clear, these are very few and far between indeed. This is not keeping the narcissist’s number in your ‘phone and not blocking that number in case there is an emergency – that is not a legitimate exception. This is not attending the same gym, at the same time and days that you know the narcissist will be there – you can make changes to bolster your no contact regime in that regard. Legitimate Exceptions would include remaining in a job where the narcissist also works pending your departure to a new job or a transfer to another site. It could be argued that you could just leave the job immediately to achieve no contact and yes, that is an option and one which should be considered where you are serious about achieving a robust no contact, but if there is no immediate job to go to, you do not have savings and you have a notice period to abide by, then you will have to remain in a situation where there is a risk of contact. Legitimate Exceptions would also cover co-parenting with a narcissist where there is a court order compelling that co-parenting takes place. Legitimate Exceptions covers attending court where the narcissist will also be there. Remember, even with the Legitimate Exceptions this does not give you a pass to engage freely with the narcissist, indeed there are still many things you can do which means you can still maintain total no contact or a high level of no contact, but those are matters for separate discussion. This article addresses those very few situations where contact arises with the narcissist so that you give no or very little fuel.

I shall reinforce that you CANNOT use this article in order to repeatedly engage with us and think you can do so in a manner which will not have an adverse effect on you. If you keep engaging with the narcissist, your emotional thinking will surge and increase and you WILL end up losing insight and resistance. You need to recognise and understand this and see The Golden Rules of Freedom – No. 4

It is important that you understand that the most dangerous interaction with us, is any direct physical interaction with us. Why is this?

  1. The largest amount of fuel you provide to us comes from direct physical interaction. This is because the words you use, the tone of those words, your body language, your facial expression and the look in your eyes all combine to provide us with very large quantities of fuel. Therefore, wherever possible we want to achieve an interaction with you in person.
  2. You are far easier to manipulate in person because your own emotional thinking surges owing to our close proximity which then weakens and removes your resistance to us far faster. It is easier to ignore an e-mail from us but far harder when we look at you, give you that winning smile that makes you melt as our familiar scent washes over you. You may think you can resist it (and some might for a time) but I have seen many fall when there is physical interaction with us.
  3. Your politeness and decency mean you may well struggle to ignore us when there is direct physical interaction. Your emotional thinking will cause you to say hello and at least be polite and then the salami-slicing begins as we draw you in once again.
  4. No matter how disciplined you think you can be in our presence, you may be able to keep your tone level but your immediate emotional responses (facial expressions, the look in your eyes, body language etc.) provide fuel and are virtually impossible for you to stop. You will also struggle to keep your tone level when you speak to us for much more than a couple of minutes. Accordingly, you are always going to give us some fuel when we see you in person. This underlines the need to avoid direct physical contact with us as a priority.

So, how do you reduce the fuel that you give to the narcissist?

  1. Apply no contact and make it total. Maintain it at a robust level.
  2. If there has to be direct physical contact with the narcissist then look to reduce the number of occasions when this can happen to the absolute minimum. Do you need to attend that Parent Teacher evening at the same time or can you organise a separate appointment? Can you stand on the opposite touchline to watch your child play sport? Do you really have to attend that meeting where the narcissist will be – can you avoid it, send someone else, provide input in writing or listen in and contribute via a telephone conference call? Can you be seated on a different table to the narcissist at the event? Can you alter your attendance at the staff canteen so you do not go when you know the narcissist is there? Yes, you may resent having to make these adjustments but they are worth doing so in order to minimise the risk of providing fuel and keeping the narcissist’s interest in you at a heightened level. Remember, we want direct physical contact for the reasons set out above.
  3. If direct physical contact occurs by ambush, apply GOSO and get out and stay out. Walk away from us and say nothing. Do not look upset, frightened or worried. Many people think that if you walk away from us then we think we have ‘won’.  Yes, we will tell people that (‘I saw Anne yesterday but she just scurried away from me like a frightened mouse’) but that is just for the façade. If you ignore us and do so without reaction (save walking away) then this wounds us massively and we hate it. Accordingly, should you bump into us somewhere, then your priority is to get away from us. Just walk off, make an excuse about being somewhere if you really need to say something, pretend to need the bathroom, pretend to take a call – whatever it takes so you can get out.
  4. If you really, really cannot get away immediately then you should do so at the earliest point. In the meanwhile talk to other people and not us (this will also wound) where this is possible. If you have to talk to us, keep your tone neutral, avoid eye contact, talk about neutral topics or topics which do not give much away about you (remember we will be looking for fuel but also information about you which we can use). Accordingly, talk about travel, the journey to wherever it is you are, the pop star whose concert it is, something you have done recently which you do not mind revealing to the narcissist and will not be used against you. Do not ask the narcissist how he or she is. If they want to talk, let them and look unfazed. The more they talk, the more you can concentrate on zoning out and not providing reactions, whilst planning your departure from the vicinity of the narcissist.
  5. Avoid expansive and sweeping gestures, pointing, gesticulating, fist-waving, holding your hands-up etc – this all provides fuel. Either hold your hands together behind your back, or place them in your pockets, hold your bag or place them flat on the table and keep your hands in that position. Have something to hold or touch and tell yourself you need to keep hold of that position or item until you are away from the narcissist.
  6. Resist all attempts to attack us in some way. Whilst you may be dying to tell us what a bastard we have been or to put us straight on one or twenty things, you will only end up losing your discipline and giving us fuel.
  7. If the narcissist has telephoned you and caught you out, put the phone down straight away. Do not tell us to go away, do not ask questions, end the call straight away.
  8. Where there has to be some form of communication with the narcissist, either convey it through a third party – thus this removes the fuel almost entirely (because they are the words of the third party and not you (unless the third party makes reference to you – which they should avoid)) or do so in writing. Writing should be the only method of communication where there absolutely has to be such communication – for example with regard to parenting arrangements. By placing the communication in writing you achieve the following
  • You give yourself time to ‘weed out’ emotive language and thus fuel – speaking does not give you this edit function, nor does being in our presence;
  • You have a written evidential record which may prove to be useful at a future point
  • You will be briefer
  • If you do provide fuel you will only provide a small amount as the written word provides us with the lowest amount of fuel that can be provided compared to other methods of communication.

Thus, aim for no interaction with us. If there is an ambush interaction, get away as quickly as you can and if you cannot, govern your responses as described above until you can make your getaway. For other interactions, reduce physical ones to the lowest possible level and use written communications instead. By doing this, you will reduce your fuel output, raise the Hoover Bar and starve us of what we want from you.

 

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38 Comments

  1. i’ve had contact with my ex-narc in the past week or so, but for business purposes only (we still have some financial ties to untangle). I have had to write him to request information, but I write to him in business language only, without commentary, without asking how he is, etc.

    He recently hoovered me and I replied in business-speak, and that was that.

    Business-speak seems to help keep the Hoover Bar high.

  2. K

    It is heartbreaking. I really only comment on HG’s board but I read another. A closed group on FB. A common strand is women who have been driven to the edge (and beyond) by the behaviour from N exs with regard to children.

    Heart breaking tales of women, driven half-demented with grief, have their children FORCIBLY and I dont men dragged away by the Police. I mean women who agree in all good terms with an ex wrt a certain frame of reference, only to find the goal posts shifted. And NEVER in the children’s benefit.

    The cloak of ‘reasonableness’ is a clock we should all be careful of I think.

    Or in other words, if you tolerate this, your children will be next.

    1. Renarde
      Situations where children are forcefully removed from the non-abusive parent are absolutely tragic. The court system needs a drastic overhaul in order to deal with this type of abuse.

      In Bekah B’s situation, it looks like her midranger is preoccupied with his new IPPS and wants nothing to do with the pregnancy or his two-year old daughter. Fingers crossed, let’s hope that doesn’t change.

      1. Utterly agree K. It’s not just that I can see this abuse being meted out to the non-abusive parents; it’s that it ACTIVELY STOPS AND HINDERS help being given to the children who are in danger of being abused and sometimes murdered.

        The ‘clogging up’ of the Court system in this way makes me almost incandescently angry. Habeas Corpus; the rule of law.
        Established in the UK under the legislation of Henry I back in early medieval times. It’s being fucked over. But fucked over royally. Secret courts that meet sub-rosa? Fuck that for a game of soldiers.!When did the prolls ever vote THAT one in? Clue: We didn’t.

        All of this Family Court shizzle is utter bollocks. Of course, children have every right to be protected from abusive behaviours. Except they are not. Repeatedly.

        What you see is almost a perfect system engendered towards abuse. The whistleblowers are ignored and or minimised. The abuse continues. Obstufications wrt agencies which are designed to PREVENT abuse work in opposite ways than you would expect.

        This is at a time where the non-residential parent is literally FIGHTING for their own childrens’ safety and wellbeing. Let alone their own mental and physical safety. A double whammy.

        The abuse STOPS when the non-residential finally takes charge. Sweeps all of the pieces from the board and says ‘Let’s play again’. And really fucking means it this time.

        THAT is taking the power back.

  3. More and more I realize it really is all about fuel to the narcissist.. They NEED that emotional energy, reaction, attention, stimulation, etc. to literally get by.. Yes, they will take whatever they can get, but I believe positive, hoover fuel when they are seeking it is much more potent than anything.. My mid-range narcissist called me last night for the first time in a full 30 days.. I did not answer.. 35 mins later, he called again.. But within the 35 mins between calls, I noticed his new IPPS post something on social media about being lied to.. So I ascertained he was receiving negative fuel from her and to counter that, he tried to hoover me and receive positive fuel.. I answered his second phone call, but luckily, I kept in mind this article and was neutral all throughout the call that lasted only 1 minute and 45 seconds.. He asked me how I was and I told him I do not know.. He asked how everybody else was and I informed him that we all still have ten fingers and toes, including the unborn baby.. (this is fact — there’s nothing special or meaningful about it..) He said ‘alright’ and I promptly hung up..

    1. Bekah B
      Your comment is a good example of contrast and double fuel provision. There was a Hoover Trigger and the Hoover Execution Criteria were met. The phone call (triangulation) was a benign hoover (positive fuel) and it looks like the IPPS may be painted black, based on her social media post about being lied to and you are now viewed white.

      Although you have been discarded (disengaged), your midrange narcissist owns you, the narcissistic relationship is forever and he is entitled to continue to draw fuel from you in perpetuity.

      Triangulation is a manipulation that causes drama and jealousy by pitting two parties against each other (the control lies in the manipulation) which provided him with two fuel streams.

      Control allowed him to gain fuel from two sources, which reinforced his need for superiority and self-worth.

      Control = safety in his world.

      You are in a very tough spot, you are bound to him through your children.

      1. K,

        *standing ovation* I do believe our dear HG would strongly approve of your analysis.. You are GOOD!! Thank you for commenting on this simple scenario and providing some much insight using narc terminology to help me better understand what happened and what it was that he was seeking.. I know him, and although I was extremely neutral and abrupt last night, he probably wasn’t wounded because I answered the phone for him.. So he will be back for more, very soon.. But I honestly and truly do not want to speak to him until the month of March.. February is nearly here and we all know what lovely holiday falls within that month.. And I already know I won’t be able to bear even imagining how their new courtship and first Valentine’s Day will go when the day (and weekend) arrives..

        You are absolutely correct about his need for control and his ease of which he seeks me out for his manipulation and fuel needs.. I also believe I will always be in a tough spot, never fully staying out of that sixth sphere of influence because I am the mother of his children and he believes he will forever be entitled to me and everything I have, am, stand for, etc. because of that alone.. You are also correct about me maintaining low contact instead of no contact, because of our children and me not ever knowing if he is calling in reference to them.. But, I can learn to navigate my way through this, avoid his manipulations, and maintain my sanity.. I do like HG’s suggestion of only written communication through e-mail, but unfortunately my narc took advantage of that and used that as a primary mode of communication at one point in time, so I had to be rid of my e-mail address in his account and I don’t want him to regain it.. (because he doesn’t remember it and therefore cannot contact me that way..)

        1. Thank you very much Bekah B!
          My narc lessons are a work in progress and the logic here is impeccable and, because of it, I made a full recovery and I will pass it on to you so you can heal and move forward quicker.

          I don’t think he was wounded either. He was feeling you out and getting some fuel in the process and he will be back. It will be interesting to see if there is a hoover around Valentine’s Day.

          Both you and the IPPS will be used for triangulation purposes and he will use the children as a plausible excuse to hoover you anytime he wants. You are correct to recognize that you will always be in his sixth sphere of influence.

          I share an eight-year old daughter with my MMRN and we communicate through text (5th sphere: written word; low quantity) only and that works pretty well for me. It may be something you want to consider.

          Bekah B, honestly, I wouldn’t be surprised if he tries to resurrect the FR with you, if he is devaluing her already, that isn’t a good sign.

          1. K,

            I only text my son’s father and when he calls, I give the phone to my son for him to answer because I can’t stand to hear the sound of his voice.. Lol.. So I laughed when I read your other comment about not even considering talking to the MMRN father of your daughter, because I know exactly how that is.. I don’t believe my son’s father is a narcissist, but he is extremely toxic, irrational, disrespectful, and when we were together years and years ago, he used to put his hands on me.. I don’t like him as a person, so I keep my distance and it is not at all difficult for me to be unbothered by his temper tantrums.. I am very straightforward with him, always, and I never think twice about ignoring him if I need to.. I say all of that to say I use my interaction with him as a reference point of my interaction with my daughter’s father: my mid-range narc.. How I respond to him is not at all alike how I respond to my other child’s father, so I know that I still feel emotionally connected to my narc.. My ultimate goal is to feel that complete indifference for him, as I do the other guy.. Lol

            I’m not looking forward to this triangulation my narc is inevitably going to deploy soon between me and his IPPS.. Actually, the last time he and I had an extended conversation and it went how I described it above (asking how I am, telling me how he is, inside jokes, etc.), he told me he is not in a relationship and kept referencing the fact I may be in one (projection).. I told him I was not with any other man and he is foolish to even speculate that while I am pregnant with HIS child.. He didn’t comment on that.. He brought up my past habits of snooping through his accounts, but I told him I am not doing that anymore, (and I am actually not).. So he asked if by some intergalactic chance that he was in a relationship, there would be no way for me to know about it.. I replied yes.. And it was several days after that conversation with my narc that I was able to find out he is, in fact, with someone new.. I found out through several different friends’ social media pages, including hers.. She is a veiled primary source.. Tsk tsk.. So my narc doesn’t even know I know about her.. I wonder how long he plans to keep her a secret from me..

            I *would* be surprised if he tries to resurrect the FR with me.. It doesn’t take long for him to devalue his new appliances.. He has numerous secondary and tertiary sources, so he draws from them while the IPPS is in devaluation.. I like to think of myself as special.. The only one of his sources, whether active or disengaged, that knows exactly what is going on and why he initiates contact with anybody (for the contrast and double fuel provision).. I voluntarily sit myself out of rotation by refusing to reply to him sometimes (when we used to text), forcing him to downgrade to another source who is not as good as me.. So when he did hoover in the past, it really was a sweet victory in his world, because he had between without my fuel for a long time.. I would have pretty good respite periods, to make up for all of that time..

            This is all when I viewed this as a game between me and my narc.. I was able to pick up on his habits, cycles, and estimate when I needed to emotionally withdraw in order to trigger my devaluation and force him to go elsewhere, just so I could have some peace and date the other guy I was trying to be with this past summer.. But now, life is not a game anymore.. (It never was and I should have never considered it to be with my narc..) It’s serious now because I am expecting another child.. I realize I need to grow up and put the focus on my children and providing for them.. I know that I can do it without having a man around, so that is what I will do.. It’s been 97 days since my narc has been consistently out of the picture, as far as my daughter is concerned.. And I cannot forgive him for not even considering her throughout this whole time.. She literally has not yet seen him since October and I’m afraid she may not remember him..

    2. Agreed K. But I’m also marvelling at Bekahs amazing response as well. In the face of probably almost unbelievable stress

      Well done Behah! X

      1. Renarde
        Bekah B did a fine job. Realistically, she can only go low contact because of the children. It is a heartbreaking situation for her.

      2. Renarde,

        Thank you so very much!! You are right, it took a lot of restraint for me to not go with my instinct of emotion and question him, display my annoyance with him, and give him any fuel, given my predicament.. I needed to pause, breathe on the *inside* (not out loud, over the phone), and respond to him in a very deliberate manner.. And AS SOON AS I heard my cue to end the call, I did.. I wanted to be the one to press “end”.. Let that be my little bit of control.. Lol

        1. No worries! Glad am of assistance!

          I sometimes wonder at what we’re asked to do when we interact with them. All the things we need to keep in our heads at once.

    3. Bekah B
      I was thinking about your response: He asked me how I was and I told him I do not know.. (that could be perceived as confusion and he wants you confused and in situ).

      Your midranger was looking for a reaction in order to determine the extent of his control and gather fuel and, although your response wasn’t negative, he may have gained Thought Fuel from the perception of your hurt, frustration, jealousy etc.

      However, you kept the phone call short, you remained as neutral as possible and then you promptly hung up which demonstrates control on your part. The hoover bar is very low; he will be back.

      Keep these two statements in mind while you work on your ET:

      1. The sweetest fuel is obtained from a Hoover
      2. Being able to generate negative fuel is the embodiment of power.

      1. K

        Those are very valid observations; especially on ‘confusion’. That’s a situation where the E needs to think on their feet and fast and actually, a really REALLY good reason why comms should be through the somewhat more neutral written word. Where it is evidenced and ER/ET can be corrected before the mail is sent.

        I’m not sure what I would have said if I was Bekah and asked such a direct question that nails my empathic reaction. I’d like to think I would have responded with a ‘fine’. But who knows?

        What do you think Bekah? Shift all comms to written and increase the bar?

        1. Renarde,

          I will say you are quite on the money about being in a position to think on my feet and really fast, because that is precisely what happened the other night.. But fortunately, a couple of days before, I had reviewed my list of responses to the question, “How are you?” that I prepared for this exact reason.. So I just remembered seeing “I don’t know”, and decided to used it during the phone call..

          I understand your perspective, K, in how my mid-ranger could interpret that response as a state of confusion, but I think he would reach that conclusion if I had said “I don’t know” in an emotional way.. I promise, it was in the most neutral of tones.. He actually took several seconds to respond because I didn’t give him anything to go on.. He had to switch the focus to the children so he could gauge some kind of reaction from me in speaking about them.. (in the past, he always asks about me first, tells me about himself, relates the two to some past inside joke or experience between the two of us, uses this as the reason why we should see each other soon, and eventually asks how the children are, as the conversation progresses..)

          To answer your suggestion, Renarde: written communication, whether through e-mail or text message, is not a good idea with my narcissist.. I agree it is the best medium of communication to deliver a very non-emotional response to questions or statements the narc has and gives the writer time to correct any emotional thoughts or responses before it is sent, but in the case of my specific narcissist, he misinterprets my writings all of the time.. I can be very factual and objective, but even-keeled when writing.. But when my narcissist wants more of me, he will flat-out accuse me of being mean or cold in my replies, trying to get me to further respond and produce negative fuel for him.. Our messages turn into a circular conversation and I end up sending lengthy messages expressing all of my thoughts and feelings to him, which I sometimes regret because I do not intend to open up and be vulnerable with him.. This gives him what he wants and I end up losing every time.. As a matter of fact, this is exactly what happened before he disengaged in October — I sent him messages throughout the course of the day and he never replied.. The next thing I knew, it was the second week of November, and again, the same thing happened when he contacted me around 4 a.m., provoking a response and I was tricked into sending him constant messages until around 3 p.m., never having slept a wink because I couldn’t stop ruminating and thinking of what I wanted to say next.. So in the unique case of me and my narcissist as individuals, I am more susceptible to express emotions in writing than I am in speaking, and he is more prone to interpret what I write in a fuel-seeking fashion.. It’s backwards, I know.. Lol

          1. Reading and digesting Bekah. 🙂

            Thank you first for your kind comments. It has put me very much in mind of a situation I am currently in; the best way to respond. Is it through written or verbal means?

            The big problem with us Empies is that in order to express ourselves fully, we provide way to much detail in the process. This is, I think, due to the effects of gaslighting, AST’s, and PST’s (plus obviously other manips and the Power Plays) deployed by another N when our brains were forming.

            I’d like to ask HG on this one as it looks like Bekah and I are approaching the same situation but from differing perspectives. is it always best to use the written word or are there times when verbalisation is key?

          2. Bekah B
            Go with your instincts when you respond; you remained neutral and that is all that matters.

            He exerted control with accusations of cruelty (projection), turning those text messages into circular conversations and deploying two silent treatments in fall. That is exactly what my MMRN did to me. Keep up the low contact and the reading. Once I got my ET under control, I was able to text without getting into a battle.

            Do what is best and most comfortable for you.

          3. K,

            Yes, I agree with you, about what he did last fall.. Those stinking mid-rangers and their cold fury.. Lol.. Thank you so much for your comments.. I will keep reading, remain low contact, and try my very best to not let my emotions get the best of me throughout this process..

        2. Renarde
          She remained neutral so she did well. The E has to be VERY careful when she is in the fourth sphere (phone call) because it can all go to hell real fast!

          No way in Hell would I want to talk to my MMRN on the phone!!!

    4. Bekah B,

      Something similar happened to me over a week ago.

      Ex-narc hoovered me via email on the exact day of 11 weeks No Contact. It was a business matter, but he did not need to contact me. He could have taken care of it without notifying me at all.My reply to the ex-narc was business-like and so was his follow-up.

      I was a bit perplexed at the timing, however. It seemed to come out of nowhere, but as HG has taught us so well, NOTHING the Narc does comes out of nowhere!

      So, I took a look at his DLS’s Instagram site and saw a bunch of quotations she posted that day and on the weekend about being tired of fighting, about speaking and not being heard, about hugging herself because her arms are more loving than those of a man who’s love is not nurturing (that quote being spot on!). So, THAT was the SOMEWHERE!

      I suspect he’s out of town because her social media has gone silent again.

      P.S. I know HG insists that viewing the narc’s or narc-connected social media sites ruin the integrity of No Contact. However, I find it useful to watch this woman’s Instagram account.

      At first I would be very emotional when I would see LOVE quotes and HEARTS plastered all over her site. I know they all related to her/their feelings.

      But now I view with the detachment of a researcher, as if I’m studying the Narc-Empath behavior like a scientist. In fact, when I see something that I recognize had once happened in my supposed relationship with him, I no longer get upset. I kind of laugh and tell myself how silly I was to give so much of myself to a man like this.

      And, not surprisingly, I can now detect patterns in their relationship, thanks to HG’s schooling.

      Viewing DLS’s social media helps keep me on track, thankful that I am here in my city free to roam because ex-Narc is off somewhere with the DLS.

      1. Hi lisk,

        That’s great that you now have the ability to watch this woman’s IG account with emotional detachment.. That’s so very important.. It is also helpful and provides a bit of insight into why the narc would contact you out of “nowhere”.. I’m glad you were able to respond to him in business speak and just leave it at that.. That’s what I hope to re-learn how to do in this phase of disengagement with my narc.. I used to be able to do this well, but my narc hated it and learned to manipulate it into making me seem cold-hearted towards him.. And I would always defend myself and inadvertently pour forth the fuel that he desperately needs.. But not anymore!!

        Keep up with noticing those patterns, that way you can keep yourself protected!

      2. lisk
        It looks like your ex-narc hoovered you in the fifth sphere of influence (email) and, you are correct, there is a reason for his behaviour (hoover fuel) and, by understanding that, you will move forward faster.

        Based on the DLS’s instagram, she was viewed black and you were viewed white and, after 11 weeks of NC, he was looking for a reaction in order to determine the extent of his control and gather fuel from you.

        You are detached now and moving forward, that is a very good sign. Enjoy the field work!

    5. Bekah B
      Your midranger looks like a Ping Pong Player and I wouldn’t be surprised if your son’s father was a narcissist. Your daughter won’t remember much about her dad, if anything at all, my ULN was out of the picture and my oldest daughter had no idea who he was.

      He may not resurrect the formal relationship, however, he will continue to hoover for fuel (the children will be used as an excuse).

      Focus on yourself, the children, reading and low contact. Thank God you are here on narcsite, you are going to need a lot of support.

      1. Thanks so much, K, for your support.. I will stay here and continue reading.. My therapist told me yesterday that I don’t need to focus on the extremes: one being my daughter’s father is a narcissist and I need to interact with him as such, and the other being he is the father of my children and I still love him and I am hurt by him because of how he has treated me over the years.. She says I need to stay in the middle ground of accepting he is the father of my children AND he has narcissistic tendencies.. I just find it best for me at this time to focus on the fact that he is a narcissist and he will never be a true father to my children, because this is the only way I can stay away right now.. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

        1. My pleasure Bekah B
          Narcissistic tendencies is putting it mildly. You will benefit greatly by staying on narcsite because you have access to accurate information, plus, there are a lot of supportive people here who understand what you are going through. It is very difficult because the narcissist thinks he is capable of love but he isn’t and we have to accept that and protect our children and ourselves.

  4. Fuel=adrenochrome. Now, after more than one year exhaustive research, I am convinced that the notion HG coined as “Fuel” has its material carrier and a very physical media. Yes, Narcs have different amygdala, they have less mirror neurons in their prefrontal cortex, different brain morphology… lack of empathy due to childhood trauma etc. But it’s not only this. In order to produce adrenochrome they need to be stimulated from outer source – namely their victim. When the victim produces the adrenochrome, the narc produces his own adrenochrome too. Plus he harvests the victim’s adrenochrome.

    1. That is interesting. I hope that someday the advancement in technology would facilitate the creation of lab created fuel that narcs can take like vitamins, and it will trigger and affect their brain the same way as fuel does for them.

    2. Although, inventing that “fuel drug” is one thing, convincing the narcs to take it is another thing.

      1. Lol, mommypino.. They’d be like today’s old folks.. Although there is technology and automation available nowadays to meet their needs, they’d still prefer to “speak to a REAL person”..

    3. Iko Flugel,

      It’s interesting that narcissist’s can create their own adrenochrome when their victims do. That helps me to understand how emotions can ‘fuel’ them.

      You said they “harvest” adrenochrome from their victims. Do you mean they have a way of storing it?

    4. HG, I’m fascinated by what Iko Flugel posted on Jan 30th stating that Narcissists create their own adrenochrome by being stimulated from an outer source as in empath emotions. I’m guessing you’re a big part of this research and study as a real pioneer of it. Iko states narcissists Harvest their victims adrenochrome too. Does a narcissist have a way of storing adrenochrome internally?

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