The Final Discard. Except It’s Not That.


“He told me he never wanted to see me again so long as he was alive. That is it. This time it  really is over.”

“She told me I was useless, pathetic, that she hated me and she would call the police if I came near her again. I don’t understand what is going on, but all I know that is the absolute end.”

“He made it clear that there is no future for us, that he cannot stand the sight of me and that he wants me packed and gone by morning. This is it. It really is it, this time.”

“She has taken everything and left me a letter explaining that she cannot do it any more, that she needs to find herself, whatever that means and there is no future for us together. I knew this was coming, I could tell, I have been given the final discard.”

The final discard. The curtain of conclusion. The guillotine of totality.

It really is over.

So often victims of our kind distinguish between being discarded and then there is (await dramatic music) the FINAL discard. There is being kicked to one side by us but the prospect of being hoovered back in and then there is the final discard whereby you have been removed from your association with us and it is the end of the entanglement and there will be no more engagement between you and I.

Victims often consider declaring that this time is the final discard and they do this for two reasons, which, interestingly are conflicting.

The first reason is that they desperately hope that it is not the final discard at all and that when they explain to whoever is listening to them recount the minute my minute dynamic of this final discard, that the person will tell them that it is not. The victim is hoping that the listener will provide some cogent reason, some piece of evidence which will explain that it cannot be the final discard and thus fulfil that which blazes at the heart of all empathic individuals; hope.

The victim does not want the entanglement to end. He or she cannot bear the pain. They do not want this to be their exile, their abandonment or their expulsion. They want to remain with us but fear that this time it really is the end and they are crying out for somebody to tell them that it is not, just so they can cling to a hope.

The second reason is because the victim does indeed hope that it is over so they are freed from our monstrous clutches. They want that to be the end. The victim, either at the time or sometime after this final discard, having gained some knowledge and understanding, ascertains that what they did caused significant wounding (although often they are wrong about that) and that this wounding was to such a degree that it sent us packing with our tail between our legs, skulking away, broken, humiliated and shame pouring from us, so that we will never, ever dare risk returning to you. The victim concludes that what they did has sent us packing and we will not darken their doorstep or inbox again. It is an understandable conclusion to reach.

There is no such thing as a final discard.

There is no such thing as a discard.

There is only ever dis-engagement.

This is because in our minds you belong to us and the Narcissistic Relationship lasts until you die or we die. That is only when finality applies to our connection. You are our property. You are our fuelling appliance. You are good and then you are bad. You are of use and then you are of no use. And then you are of use again.

We have invested time and energy in you. We want to reap the benefits time and time again.

If you are our primary source, we will dis-engage with you. We paint you black and do not want anything more to do with you at that time. It may appear as if we have ‘discarded’ you, but it is merely the termination of the Formal Relationship. You are not our girlfriend, partner, wife any longer. The Narcissistic Relationship persists. We do not draw fuel from you, we do not take your character traits, we do not take your residual benefits. You are deleted as we enter a golden period with a new primary source.

If you are an intimate secondary source, we will dis-engage with you. You are placed on the shelf, back in the cupboard, ready for the next time we want to engage with you. You are not deleted. You are just not required. For now. There is no discard. You usually are not devalued. If you are, then you have offended us and there will be a dis-engagement and a termination of the Formal Relationship of booty call, friend with benefits, shag partner.

If you are a non-intimate secondary source, we dis-engage with you. You are placed on the shelf again until the next time we wish to engage with you. Most NISSs do not notice this happen because they regard it as a natural lull in between meeting up, speaking and so forth. Again, it is rare for the NISS to be devalued, but if you are, then you have offended us and the Formal Relationship is terminated. You are no longer our friend.

If you are a tertiary source be it intimate or non-intimate, you will be put to one side as we dis-engage. There is no Formal Relationship to terminate. We may return to you or we may not. It depends on our fuel needs.

Thus, you need to understand that there is only ever a dis-engagement. The Narcissistic Relationship persists. If there is no devaluation, we consider the Formal Relationship to remain in place – thus you remain our booty call, our friend – but we have no need to call on you at the present time. If there is devaluation, then the Formal Relationship is over – you are no longer our wife, you are not our boyfriend, you are not the friend or friend with benefits and we dis-engage.

It is usually us who decide on this dis-engagement. Whether there is devaluation and dis-engagement or just dis-engagement, it is invariably us that makes this decision. If you reject us then it is an escape and of course we will endeavour to hold on to you.

What though of the situation where you have actually wounded us considerably, either as we dis-engaged or more likely, when you make your escape? Surely that brings about finality? That must mean we do not want to engage with you any longer because you have mortally wounded us and as a consequence if you did this as we dis-engaged with you, then we will never return yes? If you did it as part of the escape you implemented, then is it not correct to state that we will not hoover you?


As mentioned many times, there is always a risk that we will come back and hoover you. There needs to be a Hoover Trigger activated by you entering a sphere of influence. Thereafter, the Hoover Execution Criteria has to be achieved. This includes various matters to balance, some increasing the risk of meeting the criteria, others diminishing that risk.

This includes

  • the type of narcissist you are dealing with
  • how your fuel was regarded
  • whether you provided character traits
  • whether you provided residual benefits
  • whether you are with somebody new
  • whether you have recovered from a position of being broken or not
  • how easy it is to contact you
  • how easy it is to make physical contact with you
  • whether we know you have been lamenting our dis-engagement
  • whether you have been angry about our dis-engagement
  • whether there are outstanding issues – money, property etc
  • whether there are obstacles
  • whether there is a risk of wounding

Thus you can see the savage wounding you may have inflicted on the last occasion we interacted is but a consideration in the criteria. Yes, it may well be an important consideration when viewed against the other criteria but it will not itself amount to a final discard.

No matter how damning we were about you, how we may well have used words such as “never”, “do not”, “forever” or “always”, we are pragmatists. It is the practical need of fuel which governs all that we do. Contradiction and hypocrisy do not concern us. We can perform a 180 degree turn, a volte face or a complete turnaround and it matters not. Those were yesterday’s words.

We do not discard.

We will always come back IF the Hoover Trigger is activated and the Hoover Execution Criteria are met.

There is no final discard.

And that is my final word on the matter.

39 thoughts on “The Final Discard. Except It’s Not That.

  1. Chulu says:

    So here’s a question. I was a primary source (girlfriend) for 3.5 years. I started talking about breaking up, after about a week was discarded by phone, obviously no closure, sent an email apologizing (oops) which was ignored, and then started reading about this and went no contact. I can only assume there was someone in the wings and the discard took place only after he made sure she is a good enough supply source. If there is no such thing as a final discard, when they do try to hoover, do they try to get you back as primary source?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      The hoover may be to reinstate the formal relationship as a the IPPS. It may instead be purely about asserting control and drawing fuel, possible gaining character traits and residual benefits without entering the formal relationship again and you are hoovered as the Former IPPS.

  2. NewHere says:

    Oh no. I thought it’d be over for good! He told me it was my last time getting the chance to say “goodbye” to him and then HE blocked me on FB, then responded to my email a few days later telling me i had made up tne whole
    Scenario with no input from him, that I was the selfish one who was an epic disappointment to him because he thought I was more solid than that, etc, etc. I thought I outsmarted him by triggering his episode. I didn’t know he was a Victim Narc until I found myself here. I just knew he’d be angry with me for saying “goodbye” to him after he kept ignoring my texts. I think I was an IPSS or a DLS…we reconnected after 15 years on FB, after several Hoover attempts of his that I ignored (didn’t know that’s what they were). He’s my ex-fiancé. I’m currently married to someone else and live in another state. We had a 6-month emotional affair I’m ashamed to say, which culminated in a visit to see him, and then he went back to the games of not answering texts until days later, gaslighting me, etc. when I finally called him on it, he said “I take all the blame” and then 2 days later blew up the way he did. I felt relief because I wanted it to be over. I thought if I said outright, he’d never leave me alone. So I triggered him. He hasn’t blocked me on IG (I blocked him) and the other day I had a strange viewer of my IG stories that I suspect was him (no photo, Private, only 2 followers, no posts) so I anticipate a Hoover. He has my address and has mailed me gifts in the past. The bar seems higher since I’m not around, but how can I effectively prepare for a Hoover? I’m thinking it would be malign since I replied to his email calmly but insisted I wouldn’t talk to him anymore because he was cruel and unkind.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Welcome on board NewHere.

      1. NewHere says:

        Thank you! Your blog has helped me so much already.

        1. NewHere says:

          Oh and update. I thought I blocked him on IG…when I went to check, HE blocked me. Today. Was that a malign hoover designed to provoke negative fuel? In other words, when he said don’t bother replying to the email, I knew he wanted me to reply so he could attack me again. This feels the same, but now I know not to respond in any way. Just trying to prepare myself for anything else.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            It was both a malign hoover and an act of devaluation.

          2. Violetta says:


            Welcome! There are what Tudorites call “Seagulls” who repeatedly visit this website only to squawk and splat stinky comments. One Seagull frequently storms off in a huff, vowing never to return, and always eventually shows up once again, acting as if nothing had happened. Some return under other names or gravatars, fooling nobody.

            Your ex- may think he’s being unique and clever (an individual I refer to as “Wannabe Playuh-Narc certainly thought so), but it’s the same ol’ narc playbook. The confusion they cause will diminish amazingly, now that you’re learning what they are and how they operate.

        2. HG Tudor says:

          You are welcome.

  3. I'm Not Lisa says:

    I’ve been NC with my ex husband since the day I kicked him out 9 months ago. There was a protection order involved. He broke the terms of the PO so many times he’s facing three felony stalking charges for harassing / hoovering me. He never tricked me into breaking NC but has only stopped contacting me after spending 10 days in jail over New Year’s Eve and now facing the felony charges (plus ordered to wear an ankle monitor).

    Do I think this is the end? Oh hell no. And that is the sad and frightening part. I know someday he will pop up like a jack in the box shouting Boo! to frighten the hell out of me and reinstall that paranoia I live with (always paranoid he will pop up when I least expect it).

    As a woman in general, I am at risk of random attacks, crimes of opportunity – but when you have pissed off a narc, now you are a woman with a target on her back and there’s a particular man stalking and hunting you and he knows you quite well. It’s a horrible feeling and I know that for as long as one of us lives, i can never let my guard down.

    He told me the story once about an ex of his – they broke up and he moved from California to Tennessee “to get away from her”. Then one day without warning, he moved back to CA and was standing outside her apartment when she came home from work that day. I can only imagine the heart attack she must have had because I feel it every day just walking out my door, always expecting to see him, or be attacked by him.

    It never goes away, does it.

  4. Mai says:

    HG, I understand the concept of what you’re saying, but I truly believe that I have been discarded totally. In my supernova phase, I put my ex in a very trusting and compromising position. I completely betrayed his trust (but stayed true to my own boundaries)…devaluation had begun prior to this, but ultimately, for him, this was The.Last.Straw.

    He did not just disengage. He removed himself in every way possible. I read a fascinating essay on shame and rage, which opened my eyes as to WHY he is as he is. I do believe that he opened a closed part of himself to me, and my rejection caused him to not be able to have anything to do with me again, possibly because it opened a door to himself that he can not EVER give a key to.

    What went on was against societal norms, so I do not think it’s part of his day to day arsenal on fuel accumulation.

    At the time it was traumatic for both of us, but as it was the catalyst for the final discard/disengagement, I am not sorry it happened.

    I find it interesting that these dynamics are described as spectrums on the abuser or victim’s behalf. I have not decided what spectrum he is on.

    I always maintained a separate life that he knew nothing about (we were long distance, and as a narc he obviously did not hold genuine interest in my world)…. this has been my saving grace, as I have been able to take great comfort in my “real” life, the one that he was compartmentalised from.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Your emotional thinking is clouding the logic of this matter. There is no such thing as a final discard.

      1. Mai says:

        Perhaps in his head. However, I do not think there will be any future contact instigated by him, and to me, that is one and the same, if that makes sense?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          I refer you to my earlier answer, Mai.

    2. Twilight says:


      I brought my ex Greater to his knees in ways he never expect and he still Hoovers me.
      Now I didn’t go unscathed he came back with a serious vengeance….

      My point never think they will never return

      1. HG Tudor says:


      2. Mai says:

        Okay. Well I am in full NC and will remain so.

        I appreciate all the advice.

  5. Courtney says:

    Hg do narcs feel more of a claim on ex fiancés/wives (as in still thinks of her as his even after a breakup) or is the claim the same on all exes regardless of the time spent dating?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It is the same. We regard all people as our property. Of course we will use the nature and length of the Formal Relationship where it is advantageous to do so “We were together 10 years and you do this to me?!” for example.

  6. Candis says:

    Hg is a mid ranger is trying to Hoover a former IPPS that he previously discarded does that mean he is for whatever reason viewing her in the white? Would a Hoover trigger cause an ex to move from being in the black to in the white?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I would need more information to be exact, however as a general proposition, the hoovering of a Former IPPS is most likely to be benign as he or she is painted white. It is the devaluation of the current IPPS which invariably (but not always) causes the former IPPS to be painted white again and thus increases the risk of the former IPPS being hoovered.

  7. KOREANDER says:

    Not only 20 years have passed, but there are also 700km away. It’s all so crazy. Besides, what sense does it have? that bothers me to provide fuel to a person so empty. I can only think that he got in touch with me for money. Lesser Narc are Patetic. 🙂

    1. K says:

      There was a Hoover Trigger and the Hoover Execution Criteria were met. Hoovers are primarily carried out for fuel, however, hoovers may occur for residual benefits or to resurrect the Formal Relationship (FR).

  8. KOREANDER says:

    H.G. you always say that the narcissistic relationship does not end until one of the two parties dies. But when the other party decides to rebuild their life, they spend 20 years and forget the narcist, that is not considered a total discarding? Or is that I’m confused? I confuse the fact that the idea of the narcissistic relationship is only in the narcissistic mind. I do not know if I explain myself very well. 😉

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are correct, the Narcissistic Relationship is from the viewpoint of the narcissist, not the victim.

  9. Chihuahuamum says:

    I seen this play out recently. A narc breaks up hooks up with their ex briefly until low and behold new relationship now back to bashing his ex. He just spent a vacation with her so in essence she filled in until his boo boo’s were eased and he was ready to find a new victim to sink his teeth into. Now that ex is painted black again and is probably in confusion wondering why he came back only to leave again. I suspect him to be a midranger bc he is constantly complaining about how hes been duped yet again. They are always the one hard done by. I sit and nod and try not to get involved bc i know that means eventually getting burned. Neutrality all the way.

  10. J.G says:

    Hello G.H.Tudor.
    Your world, your rules.
    I wonder if he would accept my rules and my world, in which he is no longer. He died many decades ago and with me. Now I am another person, my world and my rules contact zero ABSOLUTE
    Surprise darling… jajajajajaj.

    1. Presque Vu says:

      What is this jajajajajaja??
      Peculiar to me

      1. HG Tudor says:

        I think it is the Spanish version of ha ha ha ha ha.

  11. lisk says:

    “The guillotine of totality.”

    I love it!

  12. kelly says:

    Hmmm, but you seem to be indicating a difference between disgard and termination? Surely if the relationship is terminated, it’s a disgard?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No it is not because there is no finality. The Formal Relationship may end but the Narcissistic Relationship continues.

      1. Ms M says:

        If his number is erased/blocked (despite the fact I have to see the “Rent-A-Cop” almost daily when entering the installation), and there is ZERO interaction (save for holding my ID card up to my closed car window) then I would say the Narcissist Relationship has been absolutely discontinued! -Ms M.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Not in his mind it is not.

  13. wounded says:

    I am very curious – if you were to paint an image that gave you a voice on what you experienced, what would that be?

    1. Sarah says:

      This is fun Wounded!

      I would paint a barbed wire person with a black hole for a heart and arms with no hands looking into a cracked mirror.

      PS I was tempted to draw an extra large penis on him but I wouldn’t want to give him the satisfaction so if I couldn’t resist I would paint that on his head instead!!

      And you?

  14. Omj says:

    Of If understand well … you might not ever Hoover BUT you keep that option open in case.
    You don’t necessarily plan to Hoover but you always keep that option open.
    In other words you dot necessarily know that you will or not but you know you are not closing that door.

    1. K says:

      Correct. The narcissist has an Open Door Policy (that is instinct). They do not want closure because closure means the provision of fuel ends and does so for good. The narcissist won’t allow it because of their need for control, hoover fuel (positive or negative) or the potential to draw you back into the formal relationship (FR).

    2. Mona says:

      My narc would say: “There is one bill not paid.”
      It is pretty clear who has to pay.

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