The Dozen of Dismay



You are people of emotion. Not only do you experience a wide range of emotions, both good and bad, you experience emotion frequently. Your emotional output is heightened, intense and superior to that of “normal” people. You allow emotions to govern you, you are very much in touch with them and you will struggle to keep them under control, masked and hidden. These qualities which apply to the empath, super empath and co-dependent in increasing amounts make you the ideal targets for us. This is for two reasons. The first, naturally, is because your copious emotional output amounts to delicious and potent fuel for us. Our lifeblood. You are necessary to sustain our existence for it is through you that we are able to gain a sense of existence, your fuel powering what we are, what we wish to portray and that which we wish to banish. Fuel is the most important factor, but it is not the sole factor. The second reason why we require such emotional individuals to connect with (and especially in the role as intimate partner primary source) is that your emotional condition allows us to exert control over you. The exertion of control allows us to maintain our sense of superiority. This superiority allows us to paralyse you and keep you in this emotional state. Thus the cycle continues until such time as the emotional output drops below that level which is acceptable to us. By ensuring that you remain emotional, we prevent you from seeing the reality of what is happening to you. We ensure that your decision making is not borne of cool, hard logic. You are prevented from moving forward. You are prevented from escaping us. This is why so much of our manipulative behaviour is focused on provoking emotional responses from you. For fuel and for control. We must control our environment if we are to exist and this means controlling our appliances, including you as primary source.

As with so much of the narcissistic entanglement, the preservation of an emotional state is achieved through steps which we take but also as a consequence of traits which are particularly evident in your kind, as compared to normal people. These actions and traits combine through our daily interactions. They permeate everything that we say and do. Our manipulation relies on the existence of these items in order to maximise their effect and keep you in an emotional state. These actions and traits exist in the entanglement between my kind and your kind so that the dance continues, the hold is maintained and the emotion pours forth. We look to apply these actions in all our manipulations. We look to capitalise on these traits in you. Together there is an effective combination which ultimately creates your dismay and thus the emotional state we crave in you. There are twelve of these actions and traits; six from us and six from you.

  1. Generalising. We use this to maintain our superiority and belittle you. By generalising we make it sound as if we are the ones who can do no wrong and you are the ones who are always in the wrong. Thus we will make comments such as: –

“You never tell me that you love me.”

“I always am the one who has to sort things out.”

“Everybody thinks that you are horrible to me.”

“You never let me do what you want.”

Such broad brush and wide-ranging allegations are issued with total conviction in order to have considerable effect on you.

  1. Future Prediction. You are apt to base what you think the future should be based on what has happened already. This invariably means that because you have experienced the joy and wonder of the golden period that you expect that the relationship should continue in a similar vein in the future and thus you have a raised (and ultimately unrealistic) expectation by placing your hopes and decisions on the past rather than the present.
  2. Past Transgressions. We revel in raking up the past about you in order to suggest that you have done something wrong. If you have committed some wrong in the past (whether it is minor or major in nature) we are always able to remember it and we will keep digging it up. We never bury anything dead. We will also invent past transgressions which we perceive you to have committed, after all, you are not doing what we want, you are no longer idealised and therefore you must have done something wrong, yes? These inventions will be vague and amorphous in nature.
  3. Black and White Thinking. A dizzying and disorientating response to the perceived criticism which you hurl at us repeatedly so that you will be hero one moment, then zero the next. We do not operate in the grey when it comes to our view of you and others. You are either white or black. Then white again. Before becoming black once more. Often in the space of minutes.
  4. Closed Mind. We operate with a closed mind. We know best. We know the right things to do. We do not listen to anybody, least of all you, because you are a traitor, a moron and a fool. This prevents us from dealing with your challenges and heads off any sensible and credible suggestions you may happen to make about a situation which might undermine our sense of superiority
  5. Catastrophic Thinking. You engage in this as a consequence of an inherent nature to be like this but we engender and cultivate it through our conditioning of you. Since our responses when devaluing you are disproportionate (from your perspective) you then become used to the fact that when something goes wrong, it will go very wrong indeed. This causes you to always assume the worst which increases your anxiety and emotional responses.
  6. Irrational Fear. Again as a consequence of the mind games that we play with you, you find yourself second-guessing, questioning and obsessing over everything that is said and done which result in your acquiring an irrational fear. You will find something to worry about in the slightest remark or expression. Once upon a time you will never have done so, but your entanglement with us causes this to happen and with it the emotion flows.
  7. Projection. We project repeatedly by accusing you of doing the very things which we are guilty of ourselves. This is an instinctive response by us and is not only a form of defence but it also causes you to be put on the back foot as you seek to justify your own behaviour and find yourself bewildered to be accused of the act yourselves. Your response is one of astonishment, amazement, upset and annoyance. All good for the emotional quota.
  8. Blame-shifting. Another stock behaviour of our kind borne out of our need to avoid culpability for anything, which accords with our sense of entitlement. Thus it is always somebody else’s fault. Usually yours. This allows us to castigate you and causes you to react in a similar way to when we project.
  9. Never Looking Back. We are too busy driving forward to contemplate our navels and mull over events. We do not operate in this manner, but you do. Your propensity to reflect, consider and assess means that you dwell on matters for too far long and in so doing you paralyse yourselves.
  10. Mea Culpa. Not only do we blame you for everything you also engage in blaming yourself. You need to find answers to why things happen and if we are blame-shifting and rejection any suggestion that it is down to us, you then have a habit of accepting that you must be at fault somehow. It gets worse however. You do not just shrug and accept you are to blame, but you beat yourselves up trying to figure out what it is, spending time and energy working out why you are at fault.
  11. The Fixer. Your desire to fix everything, to heal and make good, means that you cannot walk away readily from situation where you would do well to do so. Instead you remain in the firing lane, in the furnace, in the midst of battle as the manipulations continue and with it the increased emotion that follows.


A dozen reasons. Six from us. Six from you. Twelve acts and conditions which result in your continued emotional state.

40 thoughts on “The Dozen of Dismay

  1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

    Dear Mr Tudor,
    Speaking of emotion …….
    I’ve mentioned before we have a “greater” friend (who’s happily ⛽️ married) whom we’ve known for 30 years
    We communicate by text
    He goes quiet for a while then …..boom … a flood of texts, then quiet again
    He’s now started sending me texts with an offending emoji on the end to “stir the pot” (he finds the emoji amusing and it’s deliberate)
    I’ve stopped replying to those texts with the emoji
    He’s also making “jests” about finding “younger” friends because he’s going to “so many” 70 n 80 th birthdays and he’s giving us lots of hints about wanting to come over and catch up more (they don’t have many friends)

    I totally understand the “fuel” aspect ….however, I stopped “reacting” to him years ago
    He did have an operation recently and they botched it up (he’s now recovered)
    What’s “this” all about ….it’s so childish
    Thanks a bunch
    Luv Bubbles xx 😘

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It’s called hoovering, it is as simple as that. If you want me to drill down further I would need to evaluate whether he is a Greater and need more information about the context of his interactions with you, therefore a consultation would be the most appropriate way of proceeding Bubbles.

      1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

        Dear Mr Tudor,
        Thank you kindly for your reply

        “Hoover” ????
        Why would he “Hoover” a friend of 30 years (Mr Bubbles n I come as package) ..I thought hoovers were primarily for intimates when discarded

        I thought perhaps he’s just “bored” and it’s what Greaters do for fuel
        Luv Bubbles 😘

        1. HG Tudor says:

          All appliances are capable of being hoovered and as you know, the chief reason for doing so, is fuel.

          1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dear Mr Tudor,
            Do greaters “toy” with happily married women?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Oh yes.

  2. WiserNow says:

    “You are people of emotion.” …says the narcissist to the empathic or sensitive person.

    But, dear HG, I think you are a person of emotion too, only you fear ’emotions’ because your emotions remind you of things you don’t want to remember, or they make you feel powerless in some way.

    I see your instagram posts about the Shieldmaiden and whenever anyone comments about her in a negative or critical way (i.e. ..about the clothes she wears, or about her intelligence, or about how much or what she eats etc), you are very defensive and protective in your replies to those comments.

    Does this mean that you care about how the Shieldmaiden is being treated and you want to protect and defend her? Or do you see these negative comments as being criticisms of you due to your association with her?

    I think narcissists have emotions that are just as volatile and changeable as anyone else’s, however, they fear the dread, or loss of control and power that their emotions make them feel.

    I recently saw a very interesting TED talk by Lisa Feldman Barrett, who is a neuroscientist. Her talk was about emotions and how the brain creates them. She says that emotions are not ‘hard-wired’ into our brains or out of our control. Instead, emotions are created or ‘built’ by our brains based on the way our brains ‘predict’ what is happening or what is going to happen using information in the environment and how our physical bodies are feeling. Our brains ‘predict’ these things in order to create safety for our physical selves. To understand or ‘predict’ possible outcomes, our brains draw on stored information already known to us or experiences that we have already had. In this way, our brains keep our physical bodies ‘safe’ by predicting, or making sense of an unknown event. We are not at the mercy of our emotions. They are being ‘made’ by our brains in response to how our physical body is feeling or reacting to the environment.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. I have never denied having emotions. I have explained how mine are under control far more often and I have a limited range of them
      2. I am not defensive about the Shieldmaiden – what I do is correct the inaccuracies peddled in certain comments so there is no misunderstanding. Many people jump to conclusions based on misunderstanding and a lack of looking at the evidence.
      3. Of course I protect the Shieldmaider – she is my girlfriend, my IPPS and a huge asset.
      4. Narcissists do not fear or dread the loss of control over our emotions – not at all.

      1. WiserNow says:

        I didn’t say you denied having emotions. I’m saying that you describe empathic people as “people of emotion”, while narcissists are also “people of emotion”, only a narcissist’s emotions include contempt, hatred, irritation, rage, feeling wounded, etc. In that respect, narcissists are also “people of emotion”.

        You say yours are in control far more often, however, your kind ‘believe’ your particular range of emotions are under control more often – probably owing to your sense of omnipotence and superiority – but I think you’re prone to be motivated by your emotions as much as anybody else, even though you have a relatively limited range of them.

        Perhaps if your kind were deliberately manipulated into losing control of your emotions you’d be just as ’emotional’ as anybody else is under the same circumstances.

        Also, HG, I find it interesting that you describe the Shieldmaiden as your IPPS and an asset. That sounds like you are regarding her in a very narcissistic way. I guess you can be protective of an “asset”. It’s just that I was referring to you “being protective” of a person you felt close to and cared about on some level. Would you say you cared about the Shieldmaiden?

        By saying you fear or dread the loss of control of your emotions, I didn’t mean that you consciously fear or dread that happening. I thought of it as the negative sensations that narcissists work hard to avoid. At some level, you fear being criticised or wounded. You dread the feeling of oblivion with a loss of fuel. Those feelings are emotions, aren’t they?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Fear is an emotion yes – being criticised is not an emotion, feeling wounded is an emotion. The sense of the proximity of oblivion would be a feeling although of course the oblivion itself is devoid of feeling.

          1. WiserNow says:

            Thank you for your replies HG. I find the subject of emotion very interesting. I have recently been reading about scientific research into how the human brain creates emotion and why. The findings boil down to what emotion actually is and why humans have emotions. I find the topic fascinating, and even more so when I try to apply the findings to a narcissistic person.

            “Emotion” as a word is a bit subjective, like the word “love” for instance. Each person may have their own personal interpretation and apply particular nuance to it. We may even “judge” that emotions are either good or bad, necessary or a nuisance. Many of these judgements are a label or stereotype or even culturally condoned or approved ways of understanding or perceiving our emotions.

            Your article was posted at a very interesting time for me, because I had just listened to and read about how emotions are created by our brains. With that information in mind, your article raised certain questions for me.

            Thank you HG, for the information you provide and for the thought-provoking ideas you initiate.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome.

      2. nfl3 says:

        Regarding your first comment, HG, the narc that I know is the same. He is able to control his emotions and his responses, at least outwardly. He also has much more control over his emotions when interacting with those that he is non-intimate with.

        If we are using anger as an example of one of his emotions, does this mean he does not get angry or he does not display his anger?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          We experience fury – please see the book Fury.

          1. nfl3 says:

            I have read Fury!! It was frightening for me. Such a strong emotion to events we might deem inconsequential.

    2. K says:

      What you are describing is instinct and that is what controls my behaviour.

      1. WiserNow says:

        Thank you for your comment. That makes me wonder about the difference (and similarity) between ‘instinct’ and ’emotion’. Our brain creates both of them and they are initiated by the way our bodies react to environmental triggers or what is happening to us. They are both ‘created’ by our internal world and how we ‘feel’, or how our internal world is reacting and responding to the external world.

        It is interesting to compare the two. In my mind, instinct is more spontaneous and innate and less “changeable” than emotion. It arises as a “knowing” and the origins or basis of that knowing are not easy to decipher or recognise.

        I think both instinct and emotion have a personal historical component to them. Each of us has instincts and emotions that are personal to us and I think they are based on our own personal life history and experiences and how our biological brains have “reacted” to those experiences. I think our brains have “created” both of them based on what we have known or have experienced. I think our brains do this instantaneously without us being cognitively aware of it, and this builds our own personal internal worlds.

        I find it a fascinating concept and, to me, both instinct and emotion arise for generally the same purpose – to enable us to understand, predict, make sense of, stay safe, survive and thrive in our environment.

        1. K says:

          You are welcome WiserNow
          Your comment was very good but I disagree with Feldman Barrett. I think emotions are hard-wired into us. I am not an emotions expert but I read in The Art of Empathy by Karla McLaren that emotions are innate and are used for communication and protection.

          My behaviour is context driven (instinct) so when I feel threatened (fear) I can react violently (self-protection). Fear is one of my strongest emotions and it dictates my behavior.

          1. WiserNow says:


            I think I can understand why you disagree with Feldman Barrett. When I first listened to her TED talk where she says that our emotions are “built” by our brains, it resonated with me and I agreed with her, however, I started to think about that concept and how it worked to create very different outcomes for narcissistic people compared to empathic people. It made me think that it was the ‘type’ of brain creating the emotions that was also an important factor.

            That in turn makes me think that the biological ‘material’ our brains are made of and the reasons behind why brain synapses fire in a certain way in some people and in a different way in others in response to similar external triggers would be the thing to study in terms of understanding narcissism and empathy. This is a difficult area to study with scientific certainty because it’s so variable, complex and difficult to define objectively.

            Like you, I also think that there is an element of emotions and instincts that are hard-wired, and it doesn’t necessarily change due to our environment. For example, no matter how logical my thinking gets, I still “want” or would like some things to be different, even though my instinct, logic, knowledge, experience, etc, tells me this can’t be and isn’t ‘realistic’. I realise this ‘wishful thinking’ is idealistic, however, it also feels like an emotion to me…a sense of yearning. It’s an emotion that remains in my brain somewhere and doesn’t change or shift according to the ‘environment’.

            Then there are the “immediate” emotional responses I sometimes have that happen with lightning speed and they can surprise even me with their intensity or lack of logic. For example, one day when I was driving, another driver changed lanes very quickly behind me and in so doing, drove very close to my passenger side where there wasn’t much space. I saw them do it in the last second and it was somewhat frightening. However, the feeling of surprise and indignant rage I felt in that moment was intense. I felt like chasing after them and making them stop so I could yell at them and give them a piece of my mind! Then, in the next minute or so, I calmed down and started to think logically. I asked myself why I became so irritated and angry with an urge to lash out over a fairly trivial event.

            I think it was because I was driving home from a work event where I was ‘suppressing’ some feelings like being tired, hungry, a little bored and annoyed at having to ‘go through the motions’ in a social context. Then, later on the road, when the other driver swerved behind me and I had that sudden fearful reaction, my earlier suppressed emotions may have added intensity to that instant of ‘unsuppressable’ surprise and anger.

            So, the way I see it, emotions – and instinct – are highly variable and shaped by a large number of different things that are difficult to measure and define. I think some are innate and then others are caused or ‘created’ by our brains and how our brains react to the environment in the moment. Overall, I think it’s a very complex subject.

          2. K says:

            I agree; it is a very complex subject and Feldman Barrett should consider factoring in the differences for individuals who are wired with alternative perspectives, because an empath reacts differently from a Co-D, psychopath, narcissist, etc., and they, too, react differently to internal/external stimuli and, although it is the central nervous system (CNS) which determines whether there is a reaction, I think emotions that are hard-wired into the brain play a significant role in how that reaction is generated.

          3. WiserNow says:

            Yes, all the different kinds of innate personalities along the spectrum will definitely change particular emotions and instincts and how they manifest.

            Perhaps by looking at what is common to all of those types – even if the resulting theory is very general in nature – is a start. By looking at the entire forest, rather than the individual trees, we can at least begin to see how and why certain emotions and behaviours and mental states are formed.

            I believe in my own case that when I think more cognitively about how I feel and why my emotions are being ‘created’, I then have more insight and control over them.

            Thank you K, for your comments and insights. They’ve been very informative and helpful 🙂

      2. WhoCares says:

        K and WiserNow,

        K – I agree with you on instinct.

        WiserNow – I’m glad you shared your thought on emotions etc…your words are thought-provoking as well and I have also been spending some time educating myself on emotions and how our brains wire themselves in relation to them.

        I always run into a problem when I start to think about instinct vs. logical thinking (especially the way that HG advocates logical thinking – not objecting to it HG – it most certainly had helped me!).

        But when I reflect back on my entanglement and the point when I realized things could no longer continue as they were; I certainly considered what would be the “logical”, “sensible” thing to do. But then I realized that all my “sensible” choices were what had lead me down that particular road of being ensnared more deeply – and trapped. And I realized that if I went back to that way of thinking, or making decisions, I would actually be spreading myself even thinner and putting my child in a different kind of ‘danger’. So, running on pure instinct, I embraced the most ‘illogical’ (in my opinion – and probably others) option to solve the problem – and that got me free of my entanglement.

        And if I had chose the ‘logical’ , methodical way of solving the problem – i.e. getting all my ducks in a line – my ducks may not have survived…and I may not have either.

        Maybe part of issue is how I understand logic vs. commonsense…but I still sometimes have an internal objection to “applying logic.”

        I don’t think I have conveyed myself very clearly, but thank-you K and WiserNow, because your words helped me articulate my thoughts…

        1. WiserNow says:


          Thank you for your comment. You conveyed yourself very clearly and I can relate to what you said. By educating ourselves on emotions, it sounds like we are both doing the empathic thing of searching for the truth 🙂

          I find it easier to understand my own emotional thinking if I can get a better understanding of how and why my emotions are created or where they come from in the first place.

          Like you, before I had awareness, I was constantly and repeatedly doing what I thought was the “right” thing to do. At that time, I thought I was “applying logic” too, and that it was the (narcissistic) people around me that just needed to come around to ‘my’ way of thinking. I thought that somewhere inside them, they thought along the same lines I did, but it just needed more ‘effort’ for us to agree with each other and achieve a harmonious relationship. Like you, in my mind, making that ‘effort’ was the ‘sensible’ and ‘right’ thing to do.

          It took a very long time of repeated disappointments, feeling unjustly devalued, and feeling emotionally ‘depleted’ to realise that all my effort was futile and wasn’t having the effect I was convinced that it would. It actually took a period of depression and a total lack of motivation for me to ‘see’ that I needed to change for my own sanity and health. It became impossible to sustain that prior ‘effort’ and even if I could have, things would have gotten worse, not better.

          So, yes, by NOT keeping all the ducks in line, I finally had the ‘space’ to slowly learn and adopt a ‘new’ logic that I would have thought was illogical or unnatural before.

          When you think about it, it’s a pretty huge thing to change the way you think or to rewire your brain. It’s not easy and it takes time and basically changes who you are as a person.

          WhoCares, I think we need to have compassion and patience for ourselves for being willing and able to do that. New information, learning and contemplating what we learn all helps. I wish you strength and good wishes in your continued abilities to keep going 🙂 ❤

          1. WhoCares says:


            Thank-you for understanding!  – I’m glad it made sense.

            You said it all perfectly:

            “Like you, before I had awareness, I was constantly and repeatedly doing what I thought was the “right” thing to do. At that time, I thought I was “applying logic” too, and that it was the (narcissistic) people around me that just needed to come around to ‘my’ way of thinking…Like you, in my mind, making that ‘effort’ was the ‘sensible’ and ‘right’ thing to do.”

            Yes.  And also, personally, I always believed that the choices I was making were ‘good’ for all those involved but with narcissists, that just gets you deeper in.

            You’re so right about the repeated disappointment and emotional depletion; leading to depression and lack of motivation…it really has been all about bottoming out emotionally for me and then doing the repair work with a different focus to maintain my sanity and well-being.

            ” When you think about it, it’s a pretty huge thing to change the way you think or to rewire your brain. It’s not easy and it takes time and basically changes who you are as a person.”

            Agreed – we need to have compassion for ourselves during this process. However, I think we also need a bit of bravery along the way, as this is new territory for us! And we do need to congratulate ourselves – even if it’s for babysteps.

            I can see you are a brave soul WiserNow. And good for you on your pursuit of ‘truth’ (with regard to emotions etc.) I am not a ‘scientifically minded’ person – and although I can read the scientific studies, my brain has trouble handling all that at this time.

            Recently I purchased a book on the brain (in the young adult’s section of Chapters) because I thought one day my son will be able to read it and I want to be able to talk to him about the brain etc..

            But then I started reading it and found it immensely informative and easy to read because it’s condensed and focuses on the role of emotions in learning – plus, it has pictures! It also references all the scientific articles it is based on if one wants to delve deeper.

            I just thought I’d mention it for those who struggle with scientific journals as well: The Little Big Book of Big Stuff About the Brain, by Andrew Curran. (Hope you don’t mind HG).

            WiserNow, I wish you much strength and bravery in your journey as well ♡

          2. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dear WiserNow and WhoCares,
            I luv your debates n discussions 💟
            Thank you 😊
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          3. WhoCares says:

            Thank-you Bubbles – I feel very fortunate to have caring, perceptive and intelligent people, like yourself, WiserNow and others to speak with here.

          4. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dearest WhoCares,
            Awe …. thank you 😊
            “I’m”, the one who feels fortunate , I’m learning so much here
            To go “beyond” , puts our thinking caps on, explains and begs questions on a deeper level

            I find you lovelies extremely brave to take on Mr Tudor (he’s being taught a thing or two as well) 🤣
            Please don’t stop….. luv it
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          5. WiserNow says:

            Thank you Bubbles, for your very kind comment. I’m glad you are interested in our discussions and comments. I love your comments too. You make me smile and feel positive 🙂

            Sometimes I think I am personally very serious and tend to analyse things to death, to the point where I get so caught up in the details of a subject that I don’t know what on earth I believe anymore!

            But it’s all good. After a few days, I reconsider my thoughts in the context of the many different comments I read here and then the dust settles and I feel like I understand a little more even if I still have many more questions.

            Thank you lovely Bubbles, for always having a kind, warm and lighthearted touch. I appreciate your comments and sentiments a lot.

            Luv WiserNow xx 😘

          6. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dearest WiserNow,
            Thank you beautiful for your unexpected reply
            What I luv here, is that Mr Tudor processes our comments and they are all relevant on some level
            (He even puts mine thru) 🤣
            The “D n M”s” bring about an intellectual awareness, others of us have not considered
            Please don’t question yourself …. you’re perfect just as you are
            Looking forward to more WiserNow (most appropriate name) …hehe
            Thank you again gorgeous… most humbly from your kind thoughts
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          7. WiserNow says:

            Thank you dearest Bubbles 😘😘
            You are very kind and thoughtful, and very wise yourself!!
            Being here among all of the lovely, understanding and generous commenters like yourself is like being in a different world. It makes me feel so at peace and calm and accepted. It’s a wonderful feeling and I am very, very grateful.
            Thank you again dear Bubbles, and please don’t question yourself either. You are perfect just as you are too 😘😘

          8. shesaw says:

            Nice discussion. Here is my fast-written but comment, due to lack of time (I hope I will not come across as blunt, due to too speedy translation – it is not intended as I respect you all, you are my fellow survivors! ) :

            First, I believe (based on my own perception) that we are able to train ourselves to feel different emotions by using rational thinking. Like WhoCares in the car – it requires high awareness to capture the emotion ‘in the moment’ and change the actual thought pattern, which will then change the way we feel (emotion) but it can be done. I bet HG has interesting experience with that, too (would love if you wanted to share some, HG! But precious time… I realise… Still would be very interesting, thank you).

            Second – in dealing with our entanglements, I would believe that ‘CRITICAL thinking’ is often the missing link, not logical thinking. Logic in itself is a way of reasoning that doesn’t necessarily lead to the thruth: Logic is always based on premises/assumptions about what is. Assumptions differ from person to person and the narcissist’s assumptions about reality certainly differ from ours. Critical thinking is needed to distinguish our different assumptions + to be able to act on them.

            Part of the entanglement is that we were trained to ‘never judge’. But we actually HAVE TO judge, using OUR assumptions about the situation (that the narcissist IS actually lying, that what he/she does IS cheating, and that his/her behaviour IS hurting us, etc.) to break free and to be able to state firmly: ‘Never Again’.

            Thanks for putting up with my rant… 🙂 Wishing you all a beautiful day!

        2. K says:

          I hear you!

          I relied on a combination of absolute hatred, rage, fantasies of dead, mutilated narc body parts and logic to find a way out and he disengaged. Once he was gone, I used logic to Google “what the fuck happened” and eventually found my way here.

          1. WhoCares says:


            Lol – I wonder if HG could improve his Google search reach by adding key phrases “what the fuck happened” or “what the fuck IS happening”

            …haven’t so many of us been there

          2. K says:

            Ha ha ha…thanks for the laugh! A “WTF” link that takes the reader directly to narcsite would be an awesome idea.

  3. JustEmpath says:

    So HG,

    if he on the 5th date said something a little bit mean but subtle (I think it could be a kind of test) and I noticed it very quickly, I didn’t like it and in reaponse I played a drama queen – left the restaurant so he had to chase me and ask to come back and when I forgave him everything was fine again and we had our first and very intense sex that night – he thought to himself (or felt instinctively) “wow, she is highly emotional, this is something I am looking for”?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I would need more information to provide you with an accurate response. This is a matter best addressed through consultation.

    2. Renarde says:

      Yeah, consult with HG. But I too have had this.

  4. kel says:

    Wow, this nicely sums it up in a nutshell!

  5. Christopher Jackson says:

    3-12 I know all to well especially 9-12 live with that all the time I guess it will never change

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