When Will I Be Hoover Free?


It is a fundamental question that those who are ensnared by our kind want to know. When will the hoovering end? How can this be achieved and is there anyway by which this can be expedited?

To understand more and receive answers to these questions and others listen here

66 thoughts on “When Will I Be Hoover Free?

  1. Gypsy Lane says:

    Dear HG, I went no contact two years ago. I got a few minor hoovers initially and ignored them. Starting this past November I’ve been getting calls from an unknown number, and ignored them. The other day being fed up I answered and it was him, the narc. He sounded blasé, monotone, he said he still can’t get over me, still loves me. I went mad. Told him I knew it was all bullshit, that he never holds himself accountable, that he never apologized, ( to which he then did. Lol), puts all the blame on me. He then said…he felt I was trying to set him up to be hurt again and that he could not think straight. HE CALLED ME! He ended the call saying he would call back in a few days. Don’t worry I won’t answer. My question is, do these narcs just think we are stupid and gullible or are they so desperate when alone they reach out to anyone??????

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Gypsy Lane, the narcissist will do and say anything to achieve the Prime Aims and this may mean hoovering anybody within the fuel matrix and/or pulling in new appliances to the fuel matrix. We also do treat individuals as stupid and/or gullible, although the victim will not be thought of that way by the Lesser or Mid Range as he will regard the victim in a different way, but his treatment accords with seeing them as stupid and/or gullible.

  2. A383 says:

    HG, I appreciate that much of the information given here on the blog is very personal and I’m sure everyone appreciates it very much.

    I don’t want to be rude (and nosey) but I would really like to know if Kim, your previous IPPS, has accepted the relationship is over or is she reaching out to you in an attempt resurrect the relationship.

    Are you employing the new dynamic with regards to how you treat your previous IPPS and also do you still maintain intimate IPSSs (ie are some people still being given comfort crumbs just in case things don’t work out with SM).

    Does the new dynamic/pro social approach include everyone currently in your fuel matrix is my question HG!!! Xx

    Thank you in advance for any insight you wish to divulge on this matter.


    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. She has accepted the relationship is over.
      2. She continues to struggle with why it is over. She has contacted me a handful of times since the disengagement.
      3. I have been courteous towards Kim. I have no need of being malign (so far) as she is behaving herself and is not stupid enough to try to cause any problems for me.
      4. No there are no comfort crumbs being provided. My focus in an intimate sense is solely on SM.
      5. The new dynamic applies to the whole of my fuel matrix, however, it only extends so far with regard to certain people – my effort and focus on applying it really reserved for the SM.

      1. A383 says:

        Thanks for replying and for the information HG. Appreciated. x

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are welcome.

      2. DesertRose says:

        Referencing your answer to number 2, why do you suppose it is that some of us victims go looking for answers (finding you) and some of us continue to ask and look for closure from the narcissist? Is it a trait that separates certain normals/empaths? Is it a stage in the narcissistic dynamic that one finds themselves in? I believe that I read somewhere that you and Kim were together for around 4 years. That is the same amount of time I have been with my narc although I discovered from your work what he was about a year a half ago. Yes, I am having a very difficult time GOSO.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Hello DesertRose, continuing to seek answers from the narcissist (not me) is the product of emotional thinking which wants the victim to feed their innate addiction to the present narcissist. Thus it hijacks the truth seeker trait and causes you to want to engage with us in order to find closure – although you will not be given it. As you are finding it difficult to GOSO I recommend you organise a consultation with me.

          1. NarcAngel says:

            So your view then is that when staying engaged with a narcissist citing need for closure that it is just another case of lying to oneself to get another hit? To make contact under the guise of a seemingly noble or acceptable cause?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Absolutely correct. Get the answers from me and make your own closure – you can control that.

          3. DesertRose says:

            I did so about a year ago and although it was very helpful I did not heed your advice. Here I am, a year later, in the same place. Every year, I am in the same place. I shall consult with you again.

    2. NarcAngel says:

      Great questions and thank you for asking them. I had wondered along those lines as well.

      1. A383 says:

        Thank you NarcAngel. x

        HG hasn’t really spoken of Kim post disengagement – he’s obviously so caught in this new GP with SM – as are we all.

        But I think it’s only right that we should spare a thought for Kim, as we can all probably relate to how she must be suffering at the moment.

        And who knows, maybe she’ll find her way here soon. Wouldn’t that be interesting.

        Best wishes. Always love reading your comments NA. You’re very wise. Xxx

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Goodness me, someone sparing a thought for K, who’d have thought it?! I actually do find it interesting A383 that you have made this point and it is to your credit that you do so.

          1. A383 says:

            HG, thank you. You’ve made my year!! x

            But joking aside…. that dreadful, confusing, terrible pain… even the thought of being at the beginning of that journey again fills me with dread.

            Be super nice to Kim if you can…..try to remember when she was every bit as amazing as SM is to you now. xxx

          2. Lou says:

            HG, I know you don’t feel remorse or guilt. With your higher awareness and new dynamic, what are your thoughts towards Kim at the moment (when and if you think of her at all).

          3. HG Tudor says:


          4. Lou says:

            I see. And now you have two Shieldmaidens you dine out with.
            The ways of the Nomad I see.

          5. HG Tudor says:

            One is THE Shieldmaiden and is mine, the other is a Shieldmaiden and is not mine, delightful though she is.

          6. Lou says:

            Would you mind explaining why do you call both ladies the same?

          7. HG Tudor says:

            They have the characteristics which accord with the label.

      2. K says:

        I think of Kim often but, because she is persona non grata, I didn’t think it was prudent to bring her up.

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Also because she’s been brought up previously and the reply was: who? and we understand why.

          1. K says:

            Ha ha ha…exactly! Deleted. I think of Kim everyday but I thought, if we mentioned her, it would interfere with the GP.

  3. Kimberly says:

    My comment is not in response to this particular article, but I have something that I wrote a while back that I would like to share with everyone. My question to you HG, is this: Is there a specific place on the site to post miscellaneous comments and thoughts?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You can put them anywhere you wish.

  4. Sarah says:

    Ohhh Mr Tudor. Your voice. The confidence and dominance that oozes from it. How much fuel do you receive from mere strangers telling you, via type, that they masturbate over your voice?

    Also, why does my victim mid-ranger KEEP messaging me, every day for weeks now, when I’ve gone NC? I’m only s DLS.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      It is of low potency (tertiary source you see), written (therefore low amount) and infrequent and thus, like all fuel generated from readers and listeners is not sought by me nor essential to my fuel needs.

      Because there is a Hoover Trigger and the Hoover Execution Criteria have been met each time. If he can message you, you are not effecting a no contact regime.

  5. Sweetest Perfection says:

    Very detailed and very opportune, HG. So since I’m in the eye of the hurricane at the moment… Yesterday, I ran into the narc twice. The first time I pretend to not having seen him and ignored him, he did see me but did the same thing. The second time I was with a friend and he was right in front of me. I couldn’t hold my ET and said a quick “hey.” He stopped, hugged me really strongly, and said: “It’s good to see you.” I didn’t make eye contact but replied “good to see you too.” Then I kept walking with my friend. HG, how much fuel do you think he did get from this interaction? And, did I open any crack for him to see an opportunity? I still keep him blocked, I thought he may tried to contact me after having seen me, but he won’t be able to unless he seeks me in person.

    1. Sweetest Perfection says:

      Dear HG, I have been waiting for your reply for several days, because I know from experience you always reply, sooner or later depending on your busy schedule. But in the meantime I have come to the enlightened realization that the question is not relevant anymore, the real answer is: you shouldn’t ask because you shouldn’t care about what level of fuel he got or about anything about him anymore. In that sense, thanks for your silence. It’s like a Zen koan where the paradox is that the lack of an answer provides you with the answer. I feel like a little grasshopper, learning step by step.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        I do not see a question from you that remains extant SP, unless I moderated it and overlooked it?

        1. Sweetest Perfection says:

          HG, I wasn’t being ironic, it is true I found within myself the lack of necessity of an answer. But since you say you may have overlooked the question, now I am curious just because. My question was in reference to my recent encounter with the narc at our common professional engagement; I ignored him the first time we crossed paths, but the second time I was walking with a male friend, he was walking towards us by himself. I simply said “hey” (without eye contact) we both stopped, he hugged me really tight and said “It is good to see you” and I replied (not looking) “you too.” And kept walking with my friend. Question: how much fuel do you think he got from this interaction? Do you think he could have seen any possibility to try to hoover after this based on my change of mind from ignoring to greeting? Thanks in advance, HG.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            1. It was a physical interaction and some fuel will have been provided. It is difficult to assess how much as I do not know if you hugged him back, allowed yourself to be hugged or stood stiff like a board. It do not know what your tone of voice was. Your words and facial expression, plus the look in your eyes will have provided some fuel however. The potency being linked to your position in the fuel matrix.
            2. The interaction will act to lower the hoover bar with regard to future hoovers all other factors remaining equal.

          2. Sweetest Perfection says:

            HG, thanks for your answer. If you don’t mind I have another question. To be honest I don’t remember exactly what I did, it was all too quickly but I recall not looking at him and not expressing much in my tone of voice. I might have hugged him back, arrrrrgg I don’t know! So, this morning I got an email with a link to music (of course he knows I’m a synesthete). It’s not directly from him, he added me to an email thread run by his brother where they exchange music they like. I thought he asked his brother to remove me because I didn’t get anything since I escaped, but I got one this morning. HG, do you think this is a hoover? I’m not gonna open the link since he knows I’m a synesthete and music really gets me.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            It is a hoover.

          4. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Thanks HG! I knew it. I always feel this weird uneasiness when I get a hoover that differentiates it from a mere coincidence.

  6. Mercy says:

    HG, this is the first audio I’ve listened to aside from a interview you shared awhile back. I enjoyed it alot!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I am pleased you did.

  7. ava101 says:

    I’m obviously not good enough to get hoovered.
    I keep getting ignored, which I can’t take either. Even though I have removed myself out of the situation, he made me do it (great, now I sound like a MRN myself … but literally …). He doesn’t even need my fuel. But my addiction drives me crazy. Obviously.
    But seriously, fellow empaths, what do you do against the pain?

    1. Mercy says:

      Ava101, it gets better. Real NC is the only way to heal the pain. No contacting him, no social media stalking to see what he is doing, no reminiscing about the good times (illusions), don’t look at pics, get rid if anything that reminds you of him. Rebuild your life. Right now you may not feel joy about anything, but think of something that will bring you a sense if accomplishment and work toward that goal. I like to build things so I keep myself distracted this way. You may have other goals like eating healthy or learning a new skill. At first it will feel forced but over time you’ll find the joy in your accomplishments.

      It’s time to work on you! He took your identity and you need to reclaim it. Don’t let him have the power of controlling your emotions. It is not his! I’m sorry you are feeling pain. I have been there and it’s horrible. It feels like it’ll never go away but it does. You have to do the work though. The pain of leaving and staying away is bearable, the pain of staying in that dark place is not.

      Right now you feel like you are not good enough to be hoovered. I know this feeling. Take this time and heal because the hoover will come and you need to be strong when it does.

      1. ava101 says:

        Mercy, thank you very much for your kind words.
        Especially this was helpful:
        “The pain of leaving and staying away is bearable, the pain of staying in that dark place is not.”
        So true, yes, I would be infinitely worse off, if I hadn’t left his place.

        I don’t believe there will be a hoover, because he simply has no use for me anymore, I am too far away.
        But either way, yes, you are right, I should make use of this and heal. 🙂

        1. Mercy says:


          We can’t predict the narcissist needs so a hoover is always possible. Take the advice of the readers that responded to you. Put yourself and your needs first.

          1. ava101 says:

            I will block him tonight when I can be sure that I won’t potentially need a reference anymore from him.
            I am by now mad at him and this has gone too far. So don’t worry. 🙂 He won’t have any way to find out my address etc.
            Thank you.

    2. shesaw says:

      Ava, I will give you my personal recipe against this pain:

      1. Have compassion with yourself. It is normal to have pain in this situation. You have the ability to deal with this. Others can, so you can, too.
      2. Learn about your addiction. Read about Trauma Bonding. This is the addiction. You will need time to break it. Take that time. Also inform yourself about the consequences of gaslighting. It will make you understand better what happened to you, and why you are where you are now.
      3. Radical acceptance of childhood wounds. Narcissists fulfill unmet, subconscious needs from childhood (which is often validation, which they turn into invalidation later on –> that’s where the trauma bond comes up). When the relationship stops, you have an open wound. Your mind attaches the pain from the wound to the loss of your ex, but it has always been there. You may need help to cure it, but you can.
      4. Make a plan for your healing and start with the tiniest thing that you can imagine that would set you up that path. Do that thing. If you can’t do it today, do it tomorrow. Or the day after tomorrow. But do it. Once you did it: victory! Then you imagine the next tiniest step. Same procedure. You will feel more and more confident and you will be able to take bigger steps over time. Don’t forget to celebrate your tiny victories – which are, in fact, HUGE ones.

      Maybe 4 is the best thing to start with.
      If you are more of a reader and have a need to understand things intellectually, then 2 is a good start. Knowledge of narcissism off course is obligatory in any case, but you have HG for that 😉
      Point 1 is your obligatory companion during all steps.
      Point 3 is the biggest thing, will start happening when practising the other points, but maybe best to have help with this one.

      Be kind to yourself. You have been through a lot. Don’t beat yourself up. You have been invalidated enough.

      Bon courage!

      1. FYC says:

        Beautifully stated, Shesaw. Good advice.

      2. ava101 says:

        Yes, good advice, indeed. I have lost all healthy perspective myself.
        I think this narc hit all the right spots, and previous trauma stuff got reactivated. I suspected him first to be a narc when my brain reacted in that well-known way.
        You are totally right about the childhood stuff, and open wound, yes. After I have left I had actually sat at the beach in Spain, and was drawing some systemic things into the sand (do you know systemic or family constellations?), and trying to understand, why I wasn’t able to re-act differently and to just maintain my boundaries. It is exactly like it was with my father. :/ That guy (the latest narc) — he really ticked ALL boxes. Plus, he was sooo hot. :/

        Interesting that you mention self compassion, my deeply full-on spiritual older friend, whom I had visited after the last incident, had told me just that. Yes, I am beating myself up. 🙁

        I know about the addiction, I am trying to counteract it. … I can’t believe I got drawn into that whole up-down-cycle again.

        Thank you! 🙂

        1. shesaw says:

          Ava, I hope it will help you. Don’t start feeling sorry for beating yourself up now. It is no crime to beat yourself up – but it isn’t HELPFUL. That is why you should not do it 🙂

          Yes, I know about systemic constellations. I have done quite a few. What I loved about them was that I became more aware of what I feel (I tend to dissociate into my brain when things get rough), to pick up on body signals and human interactions, and to trust this stream of information. Some sessions impacted me on a deep level. Very valuable experience! It is a great way to make you aware of things, but I needed some practical advise to make actual changes. How’s that for you?

          To understand why you were not able to maintain your boundaries simply IS hard. It was for me, too. The best advise (life changing) I got was:
          “Stop being harmless and grow some teeth. You confuse harmlessness with being good. There is nothing wrong with wishing someone to disappear. If you let others trample your boundaries, nothing will ever come your way.”
          I thought – maybe it can help you in some way, too. I wish!

          Enough, isn’t it?!
          All the best! You will get there.

    3. FYC says:

      Ava, a couple thoughts: First, your worth is not determined by someone else ever. Use this break in communication to focus on you and building your self esteem. Second, now that you are aware of the addiction, go about breaking that addiction. Read HG’s works and/or schedule a consult if you desire a change. If instead you are asking how to endure the pain of the narcissistic relationship—you can’t. That is why no contact and GOSO is important. Anything else will ignight your emotional thinking any leave you vulnerable to more abuse.

      1. ava101 says:

        Thank you, FYC! Yes, well said, very helpful. I don’t know what happened, I … kind of got sucked in like a drug addict after using drugs again after being clean … and lost my clear thinking completely. You’re right of course, I need to hear these kind of words.

        1. ava101 says:

          It’s not so much about self esteem though, but about the addiction and also about feeling like a helpless, unseen small child again, and being unable to accept that maintaining boundaries means that he IS gone. Still feels like abandonment.

          1. FYC says:

            Ava, you are welcome. With regard to your comments on self esteem and self worth, I mentioned this because in your first post you stated you guessed you were “unworthy” of a hoover. Fear of abandonment and addiction often go hand-in-hand with low self esteem. It can lead to poor partner choices and drive your compulsion to remain entangled in an unhealthy, unsupportive relationship. You may like this link for a better description:
            No contact and GOSO from your narc is a great way to begin valuing your own healthy needs and honoring yourself. Wishing you the best in your efforts to stop the pain and free yourself. You are worthy.

          2. FYC says:

            Ava, you may find this helpful as well.
            Wishing you mush healthy self love and worth so you can be free of your addiction to one who can never give you what you seek.

          3. ava101 says:

            Thank you, FYC! Thanks for the information. (He’s very at faking to be able to give me what I need …. 😉 ).

    4. Sarah says:

      Hi Ava,

      I am sorry to hear of your feelings of addiction and being stuck in a perpetuating cycle. Ns can be a very difficult prospect to get out of your system. I feel your pain and I know you deserve so much more in your life than what he is offering you.

      What you feel is a completely normal part of the recovery process. At the moment you are focused on the N’s needs e.g., “my fuel is obviously not good enough for him”. You are feeling a sense of loss and yet when you stop and think about it, you can’t lose something you never had to begin with. The cycle you are going through was predetermined by a Personality that is pathological, incapable of change, insight and most importantly genuine care and concern for you.

      I am not sure if you have children? Anyhow picture having a beautiful little girl who you raise up to the sky with your love, care and wonder. Imagine as she grows, she meets an N like yours. She comes to you in all sadness and desperation asking you for advice about this relationship. You see how toxic it is and the impact it is having on her. What advice would you give her? Simply afford yourself the same kindness and treat yourself with the love you deserve.

      If you have a moment of wanting some kind of validation from the N that is persistent, remember these words….it is better to be the one that got away than the open door to abuse. Do not give yourself to people who don’t deserve you. Throw him to the wolves and let the universe decide his fate – no one can escape the consequences of their actions forever. Don’t create an avenue for his consequences to belong to you.

      I once read an anecdote likening an N to an old pair of wet, sandy bathers. Their lack of conscience and need for fuel means they have no standards at times. This person has been inside, all over and on top of so many other women. You wouldn’t pick up another woman’s wet, sandy bathers at the beach and put them on would you? Yuk, no thanks. You would toss them aside quickly – toss him aside like a frisby at the beach. You don’t need his sand trailing through your life and making you feel uncomfortable.

      HG’s book Exorcism is a must read. Work through each of HG’s books one by one. Visit the blog every time you have a thought about the N and remind yourself of the arsenal that some day will be back to claim your life if you let it. Make sure your no contact is actually no contact and just breathe. Don’t put pressure on yourself to forget right away, you will and time is your friend here.

      You’ve got this as Ava – he is a germ for which prevention is better than cure. Let your wisdom and learning from narcsite be the voice in your head that guides you and remember, real love awaits you on the other side.

      Sarah xx

      1. ava101 says:

        Hi Sarah, thanks!
        You’re saying lots of very good things here! Very helpful.
        You help me see how I have lost perspective, indeed! Viewing this all from a different (healthier) angle is so much better, yes!
        I like your anecdote very much! ;D

        “The cycle you are going through was predetermined by a Personality that is pathological, incapable of change, insight and most importantly genuine care and concern for you.”
        Oh, yes! Agreed.

        Ah, aren’t we lucky to have this blog & books. I can’t imagine what his girlfriend of 8 years went through or is going through.

        1. Sarah says:

          Ava, I feel happy that you are sounding a lot more upbeat after so much support on this amazing forum. It is great to read many perspectives and experiences with regard to removing oneself from the N dynamic- a wonderful reminder to us all that what we allow will continue, but we all have a choice.

          Yes, I relate to the long suffering IPPS as that was once me. I would not wish it on my worst enemy. It is better to be healthy on your own than to be sick with someone else. Thankfully once a cycle repeats itself too many times it loses meaning for most people and they eventually stand up and walk out of their own history so to speak.

          Lovely chatting with you.

    5. Caroline-is-fine says:


      You need to get fired up!

      You can lessen your pain if you re-think what you’re telling yourself. You’re telling yourself lies. The narcissist would be pleased, as he’s got you suffering in your mind, even when he’s not around…

      Doesn’t that irritate you? Sick him yet? (If not, read on:-))

      It’s not a compliment to be hoovered. After all their “narcissistic manipulative voodoo,” I know it’s hard to cognitively keep this fact fully absorbed (because we empaths think/feel so differently), but here’s the reality: if a narcissist Hoovers you, it’s only because they think they’ve got a shot at still using & abusing you. They do it simply because they think they can! And they will go with the easiest way to get a fuel hit to empower themselves at the expense of disempowering someone — anyone — else.

      So think about this: maybe right now, your narcissist has some poor girl cornered & feeling humiliated and crouched in a corner, crying her eyes out and feeling worthless and despondent.

      How do you like him now? Because he’ll facilitate that and more, if he thinks he can. To raise himself up, he’ll kick down whomever. That’s how weak he really is… he has to lie, cheat & steal — just to feel what he wants to feel.

      It’s not desirous & exciting & mysterious when we continue to remember what lack of empathy really means. They do not/are not capable of caring… tears, pain, blood from another means nothing to them. They may be faking it, but they aren’t feeling it.

      It’s not a romantic relationship. It’s not a relationship at all.

      It’s abuse, by a disordered individual.

      Ever think that no Hoovers means that you’re not such an easy mark anymore? Just the fact that you had a limit/boundary with what you would tolerate shows you have some inner strength. They don’t like any of that personal freedom stuff. All they want is full control… until they get it… then they get bored & want to humiliate you because they have no respect for you for being so easy.

      There is no winning, other than getting out.

      In my opinion, people who are Hoovered would serve themselves well to feel insulted by it. How dare these narcissists think they can come back to abuse a victim some more? Exactly when WILL it be enough of being used like an object by another human being? How much manipulation and deceit can be stomached?

      Maybe this will get you feeling proud of yourself… because you should be. You said no to a disordered human being who wanted to use & abuse you.

      As you think on this, do you really want that disordered human being to come back to make you a slave to that sick dynamic again? Don’t you want to protect yourself from more pain? The pain from addiction will die over time, but your #1 goal should now be self-love survival mode.

      No Hoover = The narcissist silently acknowledging you’re not a slave to their manipulations.

      You’re not that poor girl crying her eyes out in the corner.

      1. ava101 says:

        Thank you, Caroline-is-fine, for your powerful words! You’ve almost shaken me awake from the trance I was in. 🙂
        He had actually said right in the beginning “we have great dynamic” … haha, I should have run right there and then, knowing myself.
        I think I am over the first withdrawel symptoms.

        I did feel insulted and got angry at some point when the ex-narc (not this current narc person) hoovered me in the past (when I had broken the contact with him completely, he never did) … – but that was after years. :/

        For some reason … it hadn’t kicked in yet this time, I don’t know why … some sentimental mid-range-victim-narc reasons … :/
        I’ll keep re-reading your clear words. Thanks for the reframing!
        Yes, even the best moments were paired with abuse, and even doing exactly the same things, I had before told him about, examples of what the ex-narc had done (I am such an idiot …) … luckily the more ridiculous examples that hadn’t gotten to me that much.

        You’re right, my last words to him might have set the hoover bar a little high. ;D My guess is that his poor ex, whom he had broken the contact with, is his current playball … but who knows, and I shouldn’t care.

        1. Caroline-is-fine says:

          Miss A+ Ava,

          That’s what we empaths (& HG) are here for — to snap you out of that narcissistic-induced trance with good ol’ truth telling. 🙂

          Too funny… him saying you have a “great dynamic.” Yes, it’s so fun to do all the giving & be left continually holding the bag of doubt & hurt. How very “un-great,” you annoying Mid-Ranger! Also, while you are still feeling a bit sentimental for his type… don’t forget how (somewhere on this blog) HG wrote that although Mid-Rangers don’t know what they are, in some sense, they are perhaps most responsible for their actions… they know enough to know what they do is wrong (shame) & don’t have the Greater’s malice & other heated factors — along with having the ability to stop.

          You’re *not* an idiot — not gonna let that go! He’s an idiot. How boring and simplistic to take what you told him was abuse to you before and re-use it. Gawd…zero creativity and Mr. Obvious. Lol

          I like to think of the “Hoover Bar” as the empath’s “High Standards Bar” also. Keep it HIGH. It should parallel your worth, which is to the sky!

          1. ava101 says:

            Haha, Caroline-is-fine, you’ve made me laugh in a very good way! 🙂

            Recycled abuse methods. 😉 Yes, a part of me was annoyed (greater part was hurt, etc.). That was the day before he got a present silent treatment from me and I could watch him crumble.

            Sky High Standards Bar … Yay!! 😉

            I hate mid rangers. This one seems to be a very low type of mid-ranger, or upper lesser. Ah, what do I know. He was more unrestrained than any guy I’ve ever been with. But then again he was very eloquent and could turn his charm on alright, like flipping a switch.
            Hm …. It doesn’t matter now anymore, thanks to you (all)! 🙂

          2. Caroline-is-fine says:

            Look at you, A+ Ava… you already sound stronger. Keep on it. Logic. Logic. Logic. I’m telling you, hitting the “lasagna logic layers” is the way to go! (I don’t know – about the lasagna thing – I just must be hungry).

            It also doesn’t hurt to laugh over the Mid-Ranger’s behavior — it reduces the false hold/false power they have — and HG would approve (you know how he can’t stand their unimaginative selves).

            If you start feeling sentimental again, write down the basic behaviors (that were said/done) and what they are — label them. It takes all the mystery out of it, and it should help you with the addictive aspect. They really *are* very predictable and boring.

            BUT they are also responsible for their actions. Don’t forget that part!

          3. ava101 says:


            *lol* I just had to imagine a real label, like the card board ones on a string you put at things, as a price tag, etc.

            Lasagna layers… ;D

            He’d accused me of being unpredictable. 😉

          4. Caroline-is-fine says:

            Yes, tag that pity-player, fussy-faker, silent-maker!

    6. ava101 says:

      When you’re gonna stop breaking my heart?
      I don’t wanna be another one
      Paying for the things I never done
      Don’t let go, don’t let go to my love
      Can I get to your soul?
      Can you get to my thought?
      Can we promise we won’t let go?
      All the things that I need
      All the things that you need
      You can make it feel so real
      Cause you can’t deny, you’ve blown my mind
      When I touch your body
      I feel I’m losing control
      Cause you can’t deny, you’ve blown my mind
      When I see you baby
      I just don’t want to let go
      I hate to see you cry
      Your smile is a beautiful lie
      I hate to see you cry
      My love is dying inside
      I can fix all those lies
      Oh baby, baby I run, but I’m running to you
      You won’t see me cry, I’m hiding inside
      My heart is in pain but I’m smiling for you
      Can I get to your soul?

      Stereo Love

  8. WhoCares says:


    That was a crazy amount of detail on the HEC and hugely informative!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome.

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