We do not do things by halves. There is no magnolia adorning the walls where we live. Muzak does not play in the background and we never choose to eat vanilla ice cream. If it is neutral, if it is middle of the road and if it is sat on the fence we do not want to know. If it is bland you can forget about it, if something is inoffensive it is of no use to us and words such as unobjectionable, unprejudiced and unbiased are pointless.

We are not interested in fair or equitable and indifference is loathed by us. If you are uncommitted, open-minded, even-handed, detached and unaligned you are not performing as we want you to. Anything which smacks of being straight down the middle holds no interest for us because everything that we want has to be extreme. We want it ice cold or burning hot. Take our ignited fury for instance. When you pass comment on us or do something which is a criticism and you do so in an unemotional, detached and straightforward manner you may as well drive a spear into our hearts as this criticism wounds and burns. To counter it, our fury will ignite and then we retaliate by adopting the extreme. We may lash out at you, pouring scorn and labelling you with a medley of offensive and nasty words, designed to tear into you and cause you to sob. We may adopt the other extreme and provide you with our haughty and stand-offish cold fury, the icy glare and cold shoulder turned towards you. We live and flourish by extremes. There is never any settling for average. It is either feast or famine.

In the beginning, we must create a deluge of false affection as we lavish you with compliments and praise. The words come easily and these softly spoken or enthused exclamations (even our method of delivery adopts an extreme) are poured over you so you are drenched with our affection and love. You are drowning in desire, swamped by our seduction and buried beneath an avalanche of affection. You are given the expensive gifts, nothing cheap, nothing crass or tatty, only the finest and most delightful items are selected for you. You are regaled with tales of our achievements, our excellence and our brilliance. I was not player of the year once but four times. I am not just the highest biller in the department but the entire firm. My car is top of its range. I only ever eat organic, none of that fast processed food for me. My handkerchiefs are silk not cotton. I have three toothbrushes for morning, noon and night. I use four different skin products when I wash in the morning. You read War and Peace in a week? I did it in three days. I don’t just text message you once or twice each day, no, what would be the point of that? You receive a text tsunami. Impressed? You ought to be. That is how special you are and how sensational I am by being able to ping text after text your way and still be as hard-working as I am.

I don’t obey the speed limit, that is for ordinary people. When it is time to go out and party, you will always notice when my entourage and I have arrived. Just watch that bar bill escalate. Why have one partner when five can be juggled? Why gamble a hundred pounds when a thousand will win much more? Five star? I want five-star superior? I am the five-star combatant – the Admiral of the Fleet, Field Marshal and Marshal of the Air Force. Turn it up to eleven. Why a dozen guests? Make it two dozen. Let’s make a show, let’s make a splash, let’s push it further. I lead a life of excess. I engage in extreme behaviours. I never just talk, I either shout and rage or seductively whisper. I don’t get a cold, I have pneumonia and you had better look after me whilst I have it.

Not only do I cause you to soar to the heights, I also take you to the extreme depths. I freeze you out. I lambast you with acidic words. I take it away and send you tumbling towards rock bottom. Down, downwards I will cast you. I don’t just want you to cry, I want you to wail and scream. I don’t want you irritated by my behaviour, I want you to be angry, blowing a gasket, beside yourself with annoyance. I do not want you to be sad, I want you to be desolate. I do not want you to be unhappy, I want you to be mired in misery. High or low, it does not matter as long as it is not in the middle.

Why am I like this? Why does my kind and me never settle for okay or fine, but have to take it to outstanding or terrible? We do so because extreme means special. Extreme means superior. Extreme means you will take notice of me. I do not just fade into the background. I am not beige. I do not sink into a grey sea. I am impenetrable darkness and I am glorious light. I am not a steady monotone, for I am the heavy, resonant and sonorous bass and the tinkling angelic bells.

I am like this because nobody remembers the middle man, the middle ranking and the go-between. Neutral is nothing. I must be noticed. I must be admired. I must shock and awe. I must stand out, turn heads and be the topic of conversation, good or bad, it matters not so long as I am recognised. I must provoke, stimulate and arouse so I am always noticed and paid attention to. I must always take it as far as possible and the further again. Extreme is the only option available to me. How else am I going to fill this emptiness?

109 thoughts on “Extreme

  1. santaann1964 says:

    Mine too! I couldn’t even have a toy he was jealous of a freaking toy. 😂

    1. Renarde says:

      You know, when you get a good one; you don’t need toys 😉

  2. Sarah Jane says:

    As an atheist, I love the spirituality of this Caron – but I think the ‘wired predisposition’ of narcs (genetically) far out-weighs the environmental circumstances (nurturing), even though it makes sense that they both play a part.

    So, we should ask ourselves how easy would it be for us to ‘turn’ narcissistic.

    1. Caron says:

      Sarah Jane, there is a movie called ‘Daybreakers.” It is a vampire movie, but it is about this phenomena of narcissists returning to life. In the movie, Vampires farm humans and have almost farmed them to extinction. It’s pretty easy to become a vampire, just get bitten (trauma) which kills you (causes you to splinter) and the remaining being is a vampire (narcissist). The vampires can’t become humans again, though.

      Until one vampire finds out by accident that time in the sun cures the vampire disease. The cure for vampirism is the Sun (The Son). Further, any vampire that bites one who has returned to life is himself returned to life, and the cured can never return to their formerly dead state. It is a poignant metaphor for Christ, this movie.

      So once we have been “cured,” we cannot become “them” again. But we were all them to some degree before we accepted and were accepted by The Son. Until you have The Son, you are just running the “vampire” programs, whether you know it or not.

      These survival mechanisms, the splitting, the narcissism, other personality disorders, the responses we have to repeated trauma–these are God’s mechanisms that He built into the human being. They aren’t aberrant. They allow us to survive until we have the maturity, education, and saving event that enables us to experience healing. You are made, and God has provisioned within humanity, the ability to survive the programs, and the ability to overcome them. Even the DNA program is meant to be overcome.

      When God looks at you, He doesn’t see a slice of you in this instance. He doesn’t see a snapshot, he doesn’t see a month, a year, a decade…a lifetime. What He sees when He looks at you is the end from the beginning. He sees every life you have ever lived, He sees you from the first thought He had about you before the foundations of the Earth, and all the way into the eternity after you leave this flesh. Lives you haven’t lived yet, and all of the parallel lives you are living now and have ever lived. He sees you WHOLE. You matter. You matter very much.

      This is how He looks at HG, too. We are so much more than our DNA and our trauma and our limited view of life, or what we think is life.

      1. Sarah Jane says:

        I have The Son, Caron – he’s 14 and grunts like Kevin from the Harry Enfield show.

        The many lives we have lived part makes sense, as reincarnation seems plausible to me – having had deja-vu episodes and believing that we’re all at different levels of life. Whether that’s to help eachother (good or bad) I don’t know.

        But yes, whatever we’re made of, we should all be accepted and valid. There are lessons to learn. And if we stop believing in a ‘meaning’, we may as well just trash the fucking place (haha).

        One thing about my MMR was that I could never have a philosophical conversation with him. His contribution was always just black and white. He used to say “When my mum checks out, so will I – but let’s change the subject”. Also, he said he’d never had deja-vu and he couldn’t listen to relaxing guided meditation tapes. Probably because that would be someone else trying to force him how to feel.

        1. Caron says:

          Your MMR sounds like a real bowl of cherries, lol. I thought my first two husbands were bad, and they were, but not like the ULN. When I was 18 the best man on the planet asked me to marry him, but I was still pretty narcissistic then and had all of these things I was running from. I never found one as good, and he has a wife of two decades now. In a parallel world, we married and had 5 children and live in a ranch house. I’ve seen it. This one seems to be my screwed up relationship life.

          A lot of people are trashing the place! I’m not sure what meaning can be gleaned from pain and from being with narcs and so much evil in the world. I know who wins the war, though, and that one day all of the parallel me’s will be one again, and I will have understanding. Life is short. I’m trying to stay in the here and now and learn as much as I can and have as much fun as I can.

          I had TONS of fun with my ULN. He’s an idiot, because so did he. We were the envy of everyone who saw us dance. But I understand now, he didn’t devalue me because he wanted to, he did it because he had to. I would have broken him free, forgiven him for everything and helped him to have fun for the rest of his life.

          The grand secret is that I don’t really care everything he did. I’m not any more damaged after him than I was before, and I can heal. I did care that it stopped, but he couldn’t/wouldn’t and had to devalue me so violently that he went back to the city to sleep on a cot in his mom’s house and left his horse to prove to me how little I meant to him. What a f*cking idiot. What he gave up just to play these stupid devaluation/discard games! Whenever he left before, I held the door open for him. This time I didn’t. I moved on. Immediately. I closed the door he thought would never be closed.

          Last night he invited me to come out and have s*x with him. I politely declined. Who’s in control now, b*tch? It would make him very grumpy and have to put me down again if he knew I said, “He won’t have anything like this again because I am the only one like me.” No one else dances, has horses or would be willing to sell everything and live in an RV, or take so many risks on a disabled navy vet college student, or forgive so much, or be capable of so much change for someone they love, and still land on my feet despite his attempts to break me. I would never be allowed to think so highly of myself in his presence, though.

          Oh well. When I found out about the cheating and kicked him out, he went and got a tattoo that says, “C’est la vie.” I guess mine would say, “Que sara sara.”

    2. santaann1964 says:

      I thought this as well because we have been treated like H has been treated. It does make me think but I am build to know that it’s abusive and that is why I chose not to be so cruel.

  3. Caron says:

    This is a mental illness. The middle ground is not lava. It is merely a transition section. Something you pass through. Passing through it, resting your feet upon it as you take steps across it does not make you less fantastic

    God has sent us out as lambs amongst wolves. That the wolf catches us, kills us and eats us does not make the wolf a great hunter, since it is God who made us easy prey to begin with, and God who made the wolf for the evil he does.

    You say narcs can’t change. I say nonsense, you are only saying that because none ever have. So be the first. It’s the only way your story won’t be ordinary, and God has provisioned for this deviation to the saddest of all the long tales told.

    Not all wolves can be saved, but those that are don’t become lambs. They become Aslan.

    1. NarcAngel says:

      What in the actual ever loving fuck.

      So God made us easy prey in the form of lambs and then sends us out amongst wolves who catch, kill, and eat us. The wolves aren’t great hunters – God takes all the credit. So God kills us. If the wolf doesn’t get saved (from who or what?) then he becomes a lamb.

      I see an upside for the wolves but none for the lambs in this scenario.

      This God sure has some sadistic party games.

      1. Claire says:

        Makes no sense.

      2. Caron says:

        Lol. This God likes to grow beautiful flowers and abundant fruit-bearing plants in manure and rotted mulch. Is that a sadistic party game?

        He left lambs defenseless, but not undefended. Every situation is an opportunity. Every time HG has someone in his lens, he has a choice to pounce and tear or to protect or to build them up. While my ULN was devaluing his ex wife with his abuse and cheating, he was protecting one of his inner circle friends who was escaping a man who did the same to her.

        A wolf is not a great hunter because it can catch and kill defenseless prey. Come on, go after a bear, or one of your own, then brag to me about your exploits. Or fight the beast within you and decline to do harm, or protect the lamb from other wolves.

        My guess is that this is allowed to occur, this is the story here, because it gives the opportunity for righteousness to come into existence in a righteous less world. For instance, the abused and hurt lamb can turn and forgive and achieve complete recovery from his fatal wounds. The abusive wolf can instead employ his prowess as a sheep dog, choosing to protect instead of to kill. (This is only a metaphor for humanity and has nothing to do with the actual animals). Ad that is just my guess. I can’t even pretend to understand it all. And sometimes it does seem sadistic.

        But it isn’t. There is a reason for all of it.

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Well that truckload should be good for the flowers.

          1. Renarde says:

            Washpish. Like it!

          2. Caron says:

            I haven’t got any secret knowledge about it. Everything I have learned can be known by anyone.

        2. Mercy says:

          How does a lamb recover from fatal wounds?

          1. Caron says:

            Mercy, a lamb by its nature is eternal. There is no fatality for what is eternal. Like HG says, emotional thinking keeps you locked in the pain. The lamb will feel the pain, but the lamb will make it through. Once through, or as soon as you can, or to get yourself through, remember what YOU want.

            You never wanted to be bitter, jaded or cynical. You never wanted to let love kill your ability to love. So don’t let this experience make you that way. Reject that option.

            Refocus yourself on what you want. Who you are. Refocus yourself whenever you need to, as often, and do not let setbacks and failures be permanent. Fight. Fight for yourself.

            Fight until you can’t.

      3. 1jaded1 says:

        I agree NarcAngel. It sounds like BS to me.

  4. Sarah Jane says:

    Chewy, resuscitating literature.
    I felt that much energy coming from this post that it’s put me in the mood for a fight with that small one from the Krankies.

    Made me laugh about the text tsunami thing. He would constantly fucking text…

    “Morning. Lucky for you I didn’t die in during the night. Just got up. Had about 4 hours sleep – ugh.”
    (Poor you, poor you, pour ME another drink so I can handle your bombardment)

    “It’s 7:12am and my perfect self has just boarded the train and I’m sittting next to some low-life who stinks of piss”
    (I’ll be stinking of it shortly if my beep alerts keep sounding off)

    “Not actually gotten to work yet. I’ve just sat and talked to a homeless man and gave him a tenner for some food.”
    (Really? You were telling me how broke you were last week until the end of the month and hinting for a sub)

    “At work. Send me some filth so I can get through my day. And some pics too!”
    (Here’s a pic of my nan on a swing in Devon, you perverted, self-centered bastard)

  5. Betsi says:

    Can you imagine a mid range narcissist with a micropenis complex? What kind of evilness and envy he could hide inside?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I’m trying not to imagine to be honest!!

    2. Joanne says:

      Mine has a micro penis complex 😒

      1. mommypino says:

        Joanne, did he really have a small dinghy? My MRE sister told me that she dated a guy with a real micro penis, not just a complex but a real deal micro penis birth defect. He was into kinky type of sex she said.

        1. Joanne says:

          Ok maybe I’m exaggerating a little. I don’t think it’s a birth defect. But it was *small.* We didn’t get that far (did not have sex) just some awkward touching and it was during this encounter where I made this discovery. I don’t have a vast sample set to compare it to, but it’s the smallest I’ve ever felt. Things went downhill after that encounter and I wondered if it was because of that… but HG said no. I was a little “forward” and he kind of rejected my advances but at this point we were pretty rushed and I had to leave anyway. As we were saying goodbye he made a weird comment like, “you can be fast or small but you can’t be both.” At the time I thought maybe he was talking about me being small and having to rush?

          1. mommypino says:

            “You can be fast or small but you can’t be both.” What does that mean? English is just my second language so I’m having a hard time understanding it. Or was it a word salad that didn’t really mean anything except to confuse you? If he said you can’t be both fast and small then it means you’re not small for being fast (for rushing) doesn’t it? So what he said seems to contradict his disapproval of you taking things fast. He’s now confusing me too! 🤪

            Actually Joanne, you would know if it’s the birth defect micropenis because they are unusually small. My MRE sister said it was about the size of my pinkie fingers which are very small. My wedding ring is size 5.5 so just imagine how small my pinkies are.

          2. Joanne says:

            A pinky?! Good grief, no ✋🏼

            I don’t think it wasn’t a word salad… I do believe it was him outwardly calling out that he is “small.” And that despite my eagerness to get inside his trousers, we both needed to go as we had to fetch our respective kids. So he didn’t want to be “fast.” Hence, “you can be small or fast but you can’t be both.”

            OR, since I am small, and now needed to rush to pick up my kids I would need to be fast. But that doesn’t really make all that much sense from the “witty” way he was trying to sound. Ugh, I don’t know and it doesn’t matter I guess, since we will not be in the position ever again. 😒

          3. Mercy says:

            Joanne, this convo is cracking me up. I actually think alot of men have the small penis complex even the ones that are large. My ex narc was not small at all but constantly needed to be told he was big. Seriously how many ways can you say “I love your big cock” and still sound sexy!? After years of this I could have been saying “I love cake” for all I cared. Actually in the end I did love cake more than the cock.

          4. NarcAngel says:

            Sometimes its more satisfying to choke down a Twinkie.

          5. Mercy says:

            NarcAngel, haha true story!!

          6. Joanne says:

            Cake > cock 😂🤣

            It’s so ridiculous, isn’t it?! What is the deal! Imagine us women wanting to hear “your _______ is so tight” all the time 🙄

          7. Mercy says:

            Joanne, don’t get me started on that one. I’m not sure HG would let my comments through. I heard all about the ex Ns analogy on the the tight P. Lots of triangulation in that convo. And he couldn’t resist sending visuals too. It’s was a train wreck I couldn’t stop watching.

          8. Joanne says:

            So vulgar. Mine has been cocky all his life but the mask he wore with me was somewhat respectful. But when he stopped acting -wow- the vulgarity 🤬🤬 Such a complete turn off.

          9. NarcAngel says:

            That’s funny. Triangulating you with yourself. Well, I’d rather have him say he enjoyed my tight pussy over: I enjoyed banging shit out of the sides. But I know what you mean.

          10. Mercy says:

            NarcAngel, haha he was actually giving me his opinion on the tight P (I can only say the word when I’m naked). He was saying that only guys with a small penis say they like the tight P. Guys that are larger (himself) know that it’s uncomfortable to have sex with s girl like that. He then went on to describe different women he’s been with and their level of tightness. This is where the pics came in showing me the women he was referring to. Of course that left me thinking “how do I rate compared to the other”.

        2. Sniglet says:

          I dated a guy with a micro-penis. A deal breaker and I ended it quickly. I almost forgot about him. He was not a narcissist, very handsome, excellent connections for my career, intelligent, wealthy, tall, well mannered. A woman cannot have it all. I’m cursed I tell ya. I’m cursed.

          1. mommypino says:

            Don’t give up Sniglet! You’re not cursed! You’ll eventually find the guy with the full package without the baggage. My MRE sister also described her ex the same way. He was perfect except for that part. They were together for a few months before she called it quits. I think that she tried to get as much fuel from him first.

          2. Sniglet says:

            Thanks mommypino. My friend who introduced us told me he had been single for a while then when I saw the package it made sense why that was the case. It sucks because he is a gentleman and truly a good guy. Treats a woman with respect care and admiration. I guess that’s when I realised that for me all his connections, looks and wealth were ultimately not important if the sex is not good. Was an eye opener.

          3. Joanne says:

            That is such an unfortunate discovery, especially in an otherwise great guy! My narc wasn’t not a great guy and I really am convinced he has a complex which contributes to his overall misogynistic attitude.

          4. Sniglet says:

            Joanne, exactly. Unfortunate and at that moment after all the flirty build up you look forward to it and make the discovery, you want to scream and leave but won’t just to be polite, sweet and flirty simultaneously planning your escape. Ahh … the peculiarities of dating life.

          5. Claire says:

            Omg yes! The escape! It’s so hard to bail out once the discovery is made. Maybe I’ll just date women. At this point why not. I’m fed up..

          6. Sniglet says:

            Claire – you are so funny! Haha.

        3. Renarde says:

          Often are. Usually subs into humiliation, CBT, chastity etc.

          1. mommypino says:

            Yup! That’s what my MRE sister told me!

      2. Anm says:

        Joanne and betsi,
        My son’s father, who is a cerebral mid -ranger, doesn’t have micro penis, but it is small, and he hates sex with a passion. Lots of issues going on with him.

        1. Claire says:

          I imagine it would be awful for a guy to have this issue, although I’m not sure I would ever want to look at it. Then I would feel guilty about not caring and the entire cycle of feeling bad would eat me up if I liked him. I’m surprised I didn’t grow up Catholic with the guilt I carry.

          1. mommypino says:

            I actually feel guilty talking about it too. I apologize to anyone that I have inadvertently offended.

          2. Claire says:

            Oh Lord—not offended. You should hear some of the conversation my friends and I have about sex! But truly if it really happened I’d be mortified. Like how could I just quit dating someone if that was the situation? How would I date someone though and not act like it was an issue? Imagine how they’d feel either way?! Ugh—I mean I’m not perfect but that is a disability. I can tuck my saggy “I’ve breast fed a nation” chest into a lacy bra but that can not be fixed.

          3. mommypino says:

            Claire so true. That’s why I felt guilty for the ones who might be suffering from the condition. I highly doubt that it can be fixed. 😕

          4. Claire says:

            Mommypino—we only have one option. We have to do one of two things. First or second date—we have to take the extra bold move of

          5. Claire says:

            Oops— I sent that reply prematurely (which is a whole other subject..)—1st or 2nd date—we have to cop a feel or just get naked and evaluate. That way our emotional thinking doesn’t have a firm hold and we can escape without feeling ultra bad. Just a little bad. The issue is the etiquette of the said crotch grabbing.. It is an entire dynamic within itself. I’ve been there.

          6. mommypino says:

            Ha ha! Claire, that got me laughing. It sounds like a good idea for a self help book on learning the ‘etiquette of crotch grabbing’. It sounds like a very complicated art. 😂😂🤣. Although I’m not in the market so I’m glad I don’t need to read up on that anymore. I just need to work on making sure that I will not have a crush on any narcissist who tries to seduce me again. 🤞

          7. Claire says:

            Glad you enjoyed it. For real though.. It’s unacceptable to do this while just kissing ok. You have to wait for “more” (his hand up your shirt or fondling at a breast) but then it’s ok from a proper lady perspective. We all truly know this! Yes, I would recommend no more affairs. I’d venture to say that if there are three people—one couple and one “outside person” in the event of an affair someone is a narcissist. I believe HG said this exact same thing to me once in so many words—he can correct any inaccuracies I may have walked away with. At the time he said this I could acknowledge narcissistic behavior, although in reflection it is glaringly clear they were actually narcissists due to the plethora of things individual to these men that identify them in varying points along the mid range spectrum. Should I be embarrassed or ashamed for being so promiscuous during the marriage? I am absolutely not. I was so starved of affection/conversation/support/kindness/consideration and common decency to the point I could have screwed a broomstick and not walked away feeling bad. I do feel terrible about one incident from my first marriage many years ago—but that marriage did not direct me here and I’m not seeking sainthood. Ironically the man I entangled with at that time was just cut out of my life for being what I now recognize as essentially of no value to me and only self seeking in the capacity of “friendship.” It wasn’t a friendship—it was always me giving. I adore you HG. Thank you.

          8. Claire says:

            Glad you enjoyed it. For real though.. It’s unacceptable to do this while just kissing ok. You have to wait for “more” but then it’s ok from a proper lady perspective. We all truly know this! Yes, I would recommend no more affairs. I’d venture to say that if there are three people—one couple and one “outside person” and in the event of an affair someone is a narcissist. I believe HG said this exact same thing to me once in so many words—he can correct any inaccuracies I may have walked away with. At the time he said this I could acknowledge narcissistic behavior, although in reflection it is glaringly clear they were actually narcissists due to the plethora of things individual to these men that identify them in varying points along the mid range spectrum. Should I be embarrassed or ashamed for being so promiscuous during the marriage? I am absolutely not. I was so starved of affection/conversation/support/kindness/consideration and common decency to the point I could have screwed a broomstick and not walked away feeling bad. I do feel terrible about one incident from my first marriage many years ago—but that marriage did not direct me here and I’m not seeking sainthood.

          9. NarcAngel says:

            Hahaha. You guys are killing me with the acceptable crotch grabbing etiquette.

          10. Claire says:

            It’s a thing NarcAngel. I’ve done it after a disappointing “situation” once. I have to know. We can’t be left feeling bad about castigating someone for shortcomings that are unacceptable. Narcissism is unacceptable! We don’t have to be martyrs anymore. IF we wait for some time our ET will kill us and keep us there dealing with the inadequacy. Now, it can be argued that if he’s fabulous we choose to deal with it. I am not dealing with that though so I have devised the techniques to investigate such matters! Timing is always crucial though. And I’ll be surprised if HG actually puts this through. Haha

          11. NarcAngel says:

            Haha. Here’s my technique:

            NA: Show me what I’ll be working with.

            Never had a guy not dying to comply. If they balk well………

          12. Claire says:

            Really!! Like soliciting for photos? Or do you just say it when he picks you up? Or at the mutual meeting place? Omg I just almost had soda come out of my nose!

          13. NarcAngel says:

            Whenever you would be employing your crotch grabbing etiquette. How is being direct worse than covertly groping around? (and around and around in some cases).

          14. Claire says:

            You are so right! It totally requires an approach similar to walking through my room at night when the lights are out. It’s a bit clumsy and there’s some groping around etc..

          15. Mercy says:


            Ok wait, I have to know. Have you ever had to turn someone down after he showed you the goods? I’d ghost someone if he sent a pic and it was a disappointment but I’d have to fake a illness or something if I got that far in person and wanted to back out.

          16. NarcAngel says:

            No, I haven’t, but size is not really the issue with me that I know is for a lot of women.

          17. Mercy says:

            NarcAngel, it doesn’t matter to me either. Big or small, I can do it better myself.

          18. Claire says:

            I was enticed into a coffee date Wednesday night. This is at least a non-narcissist. (100% sure per my preliminary investigation!) It’s a start.. Although—I’m not sure Panera is a good place for all that activity! I know things got kinda weird in a Starbucks once though..

          19. Lou says:

            Lol, NA!

          20. mommypino says:

            “I’d venture to say that if there are three people—one couple and one “outside person” and in the event of an affair someone is a narcissist.”. Claire, that really makes a lot of sense! I don’t see any empaths going out of their way to seduce someone who’s already married. Or empaths actively looking to cheat. In case of dirty empaths, it’s either they were already married to a narcissist or a normal but has a terrible marriage. Or they are in a good marriage but a narcissist was relentless and brazen in trying to seduce them. I was so shocked at the audacity of the handyman who tried to ensnare me while my husband hired him to work at our house. I thought, who would ever do that? Who would ever seduce the wife of the person who hired him? It makes so much sense that for an extramarital affair to happen, one of the parties must be aggressive and brazen enough, with zero guilt or conscience to make the affair happen.

          21. Claire says:

            I sure as hell didn’t come to this conclusion on my own! HG was on the money though. My instinct is to change what I see and twist it into something benign. I had to fight this tendency today in a professional situation with a person seeking services in my work arena. I’m really grappling with how handicapping this is. IF I had not come across HG’s work I would be entangled in another mind fuck and still completely befuddled by the last one and still confused and still decompensated. I’m not doing “this” for a hobby or for fun reading. It’s really do it or lose it.

          22. mommypino says:

            Claire, I hear you! HG is really accurate. I just try my best to avoid narcissists so that I don’t have to worry about protecting myself from their behaviors. I had the same bad habit that you described. The turning the malign into something benign in my mind. Giving the benefit of the doubt or even rewriting the story in my mind and telling myself a benign or nice motive behind something that seems a violation of my boundaries. I have been more aware of these bad habits since I found HG’s work.

          23. Claire says:

            Oh my goodness Ms. pino.. At best the interactions with narcissists have great potential for an “unpleasant” quality so that’s enough for me! Hilariously I just spoke to a co-worker and a man at work I realized to be a mid ranger (always hinting to me about sex) has been messaging her on FB about specific sex acts he wants from her! It’s getting easier to see what I have been previously blind to.. It doesn’t mean I’m not his affable colleague at work, it just means I know so I don’t feed the beast. We are getting there—better than where we were at least.

          24. Anm says:

            My son’s father is angry about everything. He has learned the art of fucking with your mind and emotions to help compensate for the lack of a sex.

          25. Claire says:

            I know something about this unfortunately. When he left I told him he sucked in bed anyway because he has PE. He said it was my fault. I was so confused because wouldn’t that be a compliment in a way! Mind fucking, bad sex, it was all just ridiculous.

          26. Anm says:

            Yes! CLAIRE, mine was a really bad case. When I met my son’s father, I was a dancer. I was probably about a size 8, but it was all muscle. I had a very strict diet and lifestyle, I also had a lot of other things going in my favor with life. He tells me while we were still in our Golden Period that he noticed I put on 10lbs or so, and he was concerned. I dont even think this was the case, but I worked hard to lose this imaginary weight. Dancers are trained to not question criticism. I went down to probably a size 2, but he was constantly still grossed out with the idea of sex, and he would say it was because of me. I started to lose my periods from working out so hard. I got a lot of attention, just not from him. I would cry at night and ask why he didnt want me. He would just be like, “oh my God. Please shut up”. We ended up having sex one time one month, because I begged him. The sex was horrible. I ended up getting pregnant with our son. I didnt even know I was pregnant for months because i wasn’t even having periods anyways. After I had my son, he did a lot of future faking and it messed with my head. I dropped down to an even smaller size, like a size 1. We eventially broke up. I went through a phase where I dated men and women. Having sex every day to make up for the lost time. My sons father tried to “stay friends” with me because we had a child in common. The real reason, was to see what kind of grip he still has. I see it for what it is, and have distanced myself from it. One night at 3am, he sent me a round of text about what a horrible person he thinks I am. I replied back that too bad he is the worst person in bed, and the only attention he could get at 3am, is from being a little prick. He was angry! He knew it was true. He went 7 years without a serious relationship, and now has one. I wish everyone happiness, and wish that my sons father could heal from narcissism-but he wont/cant. I haven’t met my son’s father’s new girlfriend yet, but from what my son has said, it sounds like a potential to be a similar dynamic and I hope this new girl doesn’t get an eating disorder or anything.

          27. NarcAngel says:

            I’m sorry you were made to feel like that and hope you are back to a healthier weight. Nourishment is important for body and mind and a narcissist is not a good source. Eat your bananas in a split instead of dating them lol.

          28. Claire says:

            I understand the criticism and mind fuck from it. And a size 8 is awesome unless you are 4’2”! It’s refreshing you feel for the new girl—I find that I have gotten there too. At first I was appalled by her drunkenness and appearance but now I recognize she is just a vulnerable victim falling for an Oscar award winning pity play. In fact, I surmise her drinking is characteristic of her own issues that make her susceptible to admiring what she sees on the surface. She is kind to my children from what little they mention and for that I am grateful. I never ask questions though.
            I’m sorry you went through this dieting and starvation to gain what was never to be yours.. (his approval) Although, you now know! I will say my ex never said anything about my weight until several comments at the end after I had gained weight from drinking. (to tolerate my daily mind fuck)
            I’m grateful for every pound I gained if it helped run him off—I was absolutely determined to sit there and die because I was immobilized in a depressed state and convinced I had to stay. I’m very hard on
            myself re, diet now—it’s almost a reaction
            formation from having gotten so out of shape and miserable. I used to be in excellent condition and I’m not where I like to be in terms of stamina on the machines/weights.. It’s so frustrating!

          29. Claire says:

            I’d also like to better understand what compels the lack of drive in some that makes them so horrible in bed! You are obviously lovely so it never was YOU. Is it simply not the individual preference for obtaining fuel for some so why bother? Sex just seems normal and should be easy! I don’t blame you for having sex daily to make up for lost time. It may have been “abnormal” not to!

          30. NarcAngel says:

            I bet you’d love to say to him (completely fuel free): You’re 50/50. You have the smallest dick I’ve ever seen but the gigantic balls to be angry about it.

            But don’t. Just think it and laugh to yourself, or lean over and whisper it to your lawyer about him in court. In fact picture it on his face when he’s speaking. That should break any tension you may be feeling if you have to face him in court again. (I hope you don’t).

          31. Anm says:

            That particular narc time was when I was in my 20’s, that was a different time. I’m in my 30’s now. I am a really good cook now, enjoy cooking and eating with my kids, I took a break from dating altogether for a little while, and I understand what narcissism is- and how their mind fuck is about the narcissist, not the victim.

          32. Anm says:

            Believe it or not, I have never had to go to court with this narcissist. He is a mid ranger, we have the same income and resources, and we just figure it isn’t worth our time. Because he is a cerebral, he focuses on work. I have come into my own power, and kind of pushed him to the side, but pretended he had a say with our sons schedule. His matrinarc actually sides with me, and therefore he doesn’t fight me as hard.
            I had a daughter 6 years after my son, with an upper lesser who is somatic/elite. That is who I am always venting about. I have had court appearances almost every month for the past 3 years, on her behalf. 70% pro se and 20% represented by attorneys. Right now, I am going into a phase where I am about to win our upcoming hearings. The law is in my favor from just not giving the narc anything. It’s interesting.

          33. NarcAngel says:

            Ah. I mixed the two.

          34. Anm says:

            I’m getting fat, and turning into a Nancy Grace against narcissist

          35. NarcAngel says:

            Ok, that made me really laugh.

          36. Renarde says:


            Please do not define my gender with respect to what is acceptable or not acceptable. As long as it’s perfectly consensual, I have ZERO issue with going in first.

            I am sorry to say that this concept of ‘ladylike’ behaviour deserves to be fully put in the dustbin where it belongs.

            Along with the Ark.

          37. Claire says:

            I initially thought I would just ignore this comment, much like I thought I would ignore that ridiculous banter about properly citing HG’s work last week. (I knew I was correct that it was properly citing him by copying the link—it felt “off” to even question myself.) Your comment here is not innocent or innocuous in nature. It is loaded with a desire for a punch back. You aren’t going to get it. This conversation was fun for most, somewhat therapeutic for a few, lighthearted (mostly) and perhaps even childish. This is a blog written by someone who is helping us and we all got here due to a lot of pain. Period. I’m not here for whatever this is. I will never again reply to something from you of this nature. If you wish to engage in a congenial fashion I’ll be happy to oblige. I wish you wellness and joy along your trajectory of recovery from what brings us all here.

          38. Renarde says:

            Claire – If I wanted to punch back, I would do and it would be obvious. I just stated, quite politely, to not define my gender in terms of ‘ladylike’ behaviour.

            I had enough of that shit from MN – who must have been getting up to all sorts with the milkman.

            Nice PA comment at the end BTW!

          39. nunya biz says:

            I haven’t read this whole thread yet, but it’s funny, I’ve said to my husband out loud when a story of something going on comes up…
            “when there is a couple and one is cheating with another person, at least one of the three is a narcissist, you just have to figure out which one”.
            I’ve seen it several times be only the one cheated ON, btw.

          40. nunya biz says:

            “I was enticed into a coffee date Wednesday night. This is at least a non-narcissist. (100% sure per my preliminary investigation!)”

            I became randomly attracted to a man the other day, so I’m pretty sure that proves he’s a narcissist : P
            Luckily I suspect he’s married (not sure), which is good because it almost always turns me immediately off.

          41. Claire says:

            I just saw this! I’m so sorry! It was rescheduled. Total non-narcissist 100% sure. Tomorrow at 4pm at IHOP. We had to pick a spot close to the a joint location—I know—not exciting. School teacher and coach. I’m not in the market but was approached in a mutual interest group on Facebook. I actually said no to going out at first but decided what the heck.

          42. nunya biz says:

            I swear I can judge penis size by looking him in the eye, but I’m probably imagining it.

          43. nunya biz says:

            I think there was a nine day lead time from typing to posting my comment, so it showed up today : )

            I spoke to a non-narc today for twenty minutes or so. It was very pleasant. He did not ask me out to IHOP.
            Seize the day!

          44. Claire says:

            Haha! I actually suggested it because it’s right where we both will be. It will be interesting—it’s doubtful I’ll have sex in the parking lot since it’s not a narcissist.

          45. nunya biz says:

            That’s not what I meant by “seize the day” anyway! : D

            I really have been so much more appreciative of non-narc personalities, I get excited, like “oh, you’re a good person?”.
            “Oh, you think the elderly should have additional opportunities?”.
            “Oh, you like a good all you can eat pancake breakfast?”.
            Completely enthralled. I hope you have a good time.

          46. Claire says:

            I imagine the enticement will be substantially dampened. The key is just getting used to more ordinary people. I went to an art display last night and met a man who texted our mutual friend for my contact info. I’m legitimately not looking but the practice is helpful? I’m pretty overwhelmed in life but a drink isn’t going to hurt.

          47. NarcAngel says:

            Nunya Biz
            That made me laugh. Thank you.

          48. Claire says:

            Me too!

          49. nunya biz says:

            Ha, I had to jump in, you guys were making me laugh.

          50. Claire says:

            I imagine a narcissist with these issues would be in some form of denial. My ex had PE. He said it was my fault. Now, that makes no sense to blame shift such an issue. It was psychologically based and it was absurd that I ever did it more than once. But I did and now I’m here.

        2. Renarde says:


          Of course PE can be fixed. There are various techniques, drugs, topical sprays or my personal favourite ‘the Shanghai Squeeze!’

          I think generally we are back at the age old, does size matter? I think why people get themselves tied in knots is that, it just depends.

          Size is not everything. The older I have become, the more I need the entire package. That I am attracted to them, they are very intelligent and with a wicked wit.

          Do they know how to please a woman? Are they utterly broadminded? Are they bonkers (this is required).

          If they have a huge cock then, well sign me up! I wouldn’t stop seeing someone if it was average or small though unless all of the criteria above were met. So of course the answer must be yes and no.

          1. nunya biz says:

            My husband’s PE used to annoy me. I haven’t tried to spray him with anything.

    3. Renarde says:

      I met one. Not the small penis but PE.

      It get’s frustrating. I did not offer him a second night.

  6. santaann1964 says:

    Maybe Mr.H you should get down deep and find the emptiness, hit it head on and put as much energy into destroying people and fill your void. You must be tired. I know I am. Then you can really help your own kind. It’s easier being an Empath, my opinion.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I am not tired.

      1. santaann1964 says:

        You will be, you must be in your 40’s. Wait until your in your mid 50’s. Life is just to short to be a meany. As always thank you for the awakening. You have helped me to get over this sickness and confusion I have experienced. I’m just wondering is being involved with this blog as contact with the narcissist that I have no contact with?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You forget, I’m designed to be this way and I excel at it. I’m like a naturally gifted concert pianist. I play and it flows. Lower echelon narcissists will find themselves tiring just playing chopsticks!

          1. WhoCares says:

            I enjoyed this analogy!

          2. WhoCares says:

            I think it’s because I suck at piano.

            The best I ever did was “Heart and Soul”…
            Now I can only remember ‘Heart’…
            Or, was it ‘Soul’?

            See the problem?

          3. Claire says:

            I’ve forced endless years of piano onto my kids under the umbrella of culturing them.. It’s a joke now because they lovingly hate me for it—all the while still being toted to weekly torturous lessons!

          4. WhoCares says:

            Ah, Claire – sometimes I think it’s just a toss-up…your kids resent you (a little) for the torturous piano lessons…and I’m a little bit resentful that my parents didn’t push me to at least learn an instrument when I was younger.

            For yours; at least maybe they’ll have learned the importance of discipline in accomplishing a challenging skill or goal – plus exercised those musically inclined brain cells.

            Me? Well, I got to be in the bell choir.

          5. Claire says:

            I need to ensure that they have content for a therapist when the time arrives.. Obama set into motion a provision allowing them to remain insured under my plan until age 26. Should allow for adequate self-actualization.

          6. WhoCares says:


          7. WhoCares says:

            How hard is it to ring a bell?
            But I did it on national TV – woohoo.

            (My mom must have loved that.)

  7. nunya biz says:

    Great pic.

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