Sadistic Streak
You could be forgiven for thinking that all of our kind are sadists. From your perspective, much of our behaviour, if not all, makes no sense and therefore it could be argued that to behave in the manner that we do must mean that we are all sadists. That is an understandable proposition. After all, if one day a person is kind to you and then the next is nasty to you when you have given them no reason to behave like that, then surely such behaviour is sadistic is it not? The behaviour has no grounding in any logic, the nastiness is manifesting just for the hell of it, is it not? Are we then not deriving pleasure from your hurt and discomfort and therefore that must makes us sadists?
A true or pure sadist is one who derives pleasure from the sadistic act. This often manifests in a sexual arena in that the act of sadism is acted out in a sexual engagement or the sadist becomes sexually aroused from the sadistic act (which may not be sexual in nature). Accordingly, a sadist may derive sexual pleasure from flagellating a bound and gagged individual. Similarly, a sadist may become sexually aroused from murdering the pet kitten of someone else.
Those of you have familiarity with my works will understand that fromm the narcissistic perspective, what we do is not done solely for pleasure (indeed we do not experience pleasure or joy) but rather it is done for the purposes of gaining fuel. It is our need for fuel which is the driver behind all of our behaviours because the emotional response of another provides us with the validation that we desperately require to fill up the void which exists inside of us.
The acquisition of fuel occurs in many, many arenas. It might be gaining a smile from an appreciative stranger as get in a lift with them, from the tears of our partner who is crying after we have held them by the throat and described how much we hate them or from them ecstatic groans of our lover as we provide them with orgasmic relief. In each instance, fuel is what flows, fuel is the aim and fuel is what is required.
All of our kind receives fuel from the emotional response of others. We do not feel joy from inflicting pain on you because we do not feel joy. Your pained expression provides fuel. It could be tears, it could be a smile, it could be laughter. As long as there is an emotional response then we gain fuel.
When you are hurt from our manipulations this is a by product of our need to gain fuel. It is a collateral consequence. Our lack of empathy means that we do not care that you are hurt. However, it goes further than this. The reduced cognitive function of the Lesser (and to some degree the lower echelons of the Mid-Ranger) means that not only do they not care that you are being hurt, they do not know you are being hurt. They see an emotional reaction and that provides fuel (although of course they do not know the mechanics of that operation). They cannot recognise the pain. I appreciate this will be rather hard for some people to grasp – how can he not know I am hurt when I am telling him so and he sees my face twisted in pain and the tears spilling down my face? The fact is, those members of our brethren neither care nor know. Thus when you are manipulated it is done purely for the fuel, it is not done primarily to hurt you. This is cold comfort nevertheless as the outcome remains the same. You are hurt.
Where we have a sadistic streak (and this is more prevalent with the upper echelons of the Mid-Range and the Greater Narcissist) we know we are hurting you and we do not care. The knowledge of your hurt adds further fuel. Accordingly, your emotional response which we witness provides us with the fuel (in the same way as a Lesser or lower echelon Mid-Ranger would) but the knowledge you are being hurt and we are causing this, provides us with extra potent fuel.
A sadist behaves in the way that he or she does purely for the sake of pleasure. We do not do it. If we have a sadistic streak then we deploy it in our machinations for two purposes:-
- The provision of extra-potent fuel as described above; and
- For the purposes of punishment and revenge.
Our aim, through this sadism, is not solely pleasure but rather the reinforcement of our superiority. Not all of our kind wish to punish, hence, they have no sadistic streak. The Mid-Ranger who has lost his primary source will feel fury for this transgression but he is far more likely to direct his energies to applying an Initial Grand Hoover to get you back and reinstate the golden period. He has no urge to punish you. Even if that IGH fails, he will then focus on recruiting a new primary source and he will leave you alone. There may be benign follow-up hoovers when he devalues the new primary source, but there is still no desire to punish you He may be looking to ‘win you back’ or just gain positive fuel. If this fails, he may not apply a malign hoover, but instead will leave you be before returning at a later juncture with another benign hoover (if conditions are right).
If you have been discarded by a Lesser but you keep trying to find out why he has discarded you, he will apply malign hoovers. This is not done as an act of revenge, but is rather done to make you stay away so he can focus on his new primary source and so you will not spoil this golden period by telling lies (the truth) about him to the new primary source. He wants you deleted and the malign hoovers are a response to your interference.
If you find yourself in a situation where you know that your particular narcissist has a new primary source, you are doing nothing to enter the spheres of influence but your narcissist will not leave you alone and is applying malign hoovers against you, this is evidence of the sadistic streak. It manifests as a malicious obsession which causes you to enter the sixth sphere of influence (see the relevant section in What is Making Him Come Back? ) and then the Hoover Execution Criteria are met.
The relevant narcissist may not actually receive any Proximate Fuel from you as you are treated to these malign hoovers because he cannot see your reactions, so you may wonder, why would he do this? The reasons are as follows:-
- The sadistic streak means that he is willing to sacrifice the fuel he is gaining from the new primary source to carry out this sadistic, malign campaign against you. Usually, the narcissist will want to gorge on this positive fuel from the new primary source and keep his attention on this person, but where there is a sadistic streak, he is willing to use some of this fuel to power the malicious campaign against you as the discarded or escaped former primary source.
- The sadistic behaviour allows for the provision of Thought Fuel as the sadistic narcissist contemplates your terrified reactions and it is his perception of how you feel (even though he cannot see it and thus it is not Proximate Fuel) . Ordinarily, a non-sadistic narcissist would not bother to apply the energy to gain this weaker Thought Fuel but a sadistic narcissist will do so.
- Our superiority is maintained by doling out punishment and revenge. A non-sadistic narcissist would seek that reinforcement with a new primary source (because it is easier to gain that positive fuel from them and to focus on them solely). The demands of the sadistic narcissist are such that he requires this ratification and validation from both current primary source (positive fuel) and discarded former primary source (negative Thought Fuel and the power felt from the application of revenge).
Accordingly, when you are entangled with a narcissist, so that the Formal relationship is continuing and you are being devalued, and he exhibits sadistic behaviours towards you, this is for the purposes of gaining extra potent fuel. If the sadism occurs post escape or discard, this is done to punish you. If Proximate Fuel arises, so much the better but if it does not, this is not a massive concern to the sadistic narcissist because we are willing to sacrifice the fuel gained from another source in order to power our desire to achieve revenge over you.
Since you look at matters from your perspective and not ours, you may find it difficult to truly distinguish when sadistic behaviour is being used against you during the Formal Relationship. It is, however, at its most recognisable when you have escaped us or have been discarded. If you know we have a new primary source but there is a campaign of hurtful behaviour being used against you – slashing the tyres on your car, putting bricks through your windows, posting unsavoury comments about you online, handing outflyers accusing you of child abuse and such like – this is the sadism being manifested. This is not a smear because the smearing happens prior to your discard (so we have got in first) or if you have escaped, the smear will happen before we get another primary source. The key determining factor in knowing that you are facing a sadistic narcissist is that we have a new primary source and instead of relishing solely in the golden period with them, we are lashing out at you again and again.
28 thoughts on “Sadistic Streak”
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My Nex is a sadist too, which he obviously hid at the start. He’s ex-military and he would describe what he’d do to anyone he captured (if he’d been allowed to, or could get away with it), or comment that shooting someone whilst they were looking at him was far superior to other times he had to shoot someone. He was also fascinated by historical torture techniques such as the Vikings Blood Eagle. It’s all awful stuff. I truly believe, if he knew he could get away with it, he’d have no hesitation in killing or torturing anyone who crossed him. I’ would go No Contact, but I’m genuinely scared of hurting his pride and igniting his fury. I’m trying to make him lose interest by being a Grey Rock instead. I wish I’d never met him. His facade is brilliant…you’d never guess at what lurks beneath.
Black Unicorn I am so sorry for the life you are trapped in! Wouldn’t a consult with HG help you devise a plan man to get out and stay safe? I put it this way because you have been on here for awhile and I was not sure if you have already had a consult or consults with HG.
Hi FM1T, thank you, yes I did consult last year, but my situation is awkward because I’m married, and he is now good friends with my spouse, which I don’t think I emphasised enough to HG. I just cannot see a way to get rid of him without causing suspicion and exposing myself. I’m also sensitive to his sadistic nature and do not want to create a fuck fest by igniting his fury. I only saw him once, but the fall out has been horrific. It’s been over three years of cat and mouse and I don’t see any end in sight. Be careful what you wish for, eh?
Oh black unicorn I am so sorry! Yes, I know exactly what you mean! Be careful what you wish for, because for some reason it never turns out the we want it to.
foolme1time: So true! I have received so many things that I have asked for. Now, I am asking to fully escape the Narcissist as intact as possible, and I am putting a restraint on asking for much over what I have, for a while. Peace of mind, basic necessities, health and laughter: I will stop there. I have received a lot of what I should not have asked for. Lessons learned. sigh….
Thanks FM1T 🤗. I can’t tell anyone IRL so it’s nice just to be able to acknowledge it all x
P.s. I’m now a great believer in the other phrase – sometimes, not getting what you want is a wonderful thing. How I wish…!
Black Unicorn your welcome. I truly do understand more then you realize. I honestly wish I had the answers for you. I’m glad you have this place to come to. 🤗😘
Hello, H.G.Tudor.
I guess the main fact of his manipulations and collateral damage is the fuel. One thing doesn’t take away the other.
Your I put that there will be narcissists and narcissists, and among them some less sadistic than others. In my opinion, my narcissist was a sadist and an exhibitionist because he was always looking for a way for me to contemplate his sentimental conquests. Now I know that it was not the fact of the conquest itself but of.
Obtaining fuel from me.
His Sadism in seeing me suffer because he knew it.
I suppose that this bizarre practice, excited him you know, narc usually have some kind of sexual dysfunction. Not all of them, but many for sure.
Many times I have thought of this mania of yours and I have come to think that I could even have sex thinking of me. One of those strange, magical thoughts. While I was having sex with the other person. He practices the truth very bizarrely.
You know the complex of virgin to her victims and the complex of not wanting to bond with the victims.
I understand very well that I did it for fuel, control, devaluation and punishment by forcing me to contemplate such an aberration. (Psychological abuse). But as you know every narcissist is a world I think this man would have to have some other strange fascination sexually speaking.
Dearest HG: What about the Empaths that exhibit Sadistic behaviour in various forms? I was watching an episode of Law ad Order. Season 4 episode 1 entitled: Chameleon. They seem to be suggesting that the way this woman was treated turned her into a serial killer of men. ~~~~https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6syjtw
1. If the treatment was at a formative stage, she may well have become one of our kind.
2. If not, she may not have been an empath anyway.
3. If an empath, she may well have faced the cliff or gone supernova. Being a serial killer does not necessarily mean you are a sadist.
Dearest HG: Yes. I understand. I plan to watch the episode again very soon, and try to determine what exactly they are suggesting about her categorizing/sentencing her and imprisoning her as number 1 or number 2 or number 3. It is a weird episode. Thank you.
She seems to be #1. This episode of Law and Order is “based on the true story of Aileen Wuornos, also portrayed by Charlise Theron, in the movie titled: Monster. Wuornos claimed that her victims had either raped or attempted to rape her while she was working as a prostitute, and that all of the homicides were committed in self-defense. She was convicted and sentenced to death for six of the murders and was executed by lethal injection on October 9, 2002.
The 2003 film Monster starred Charlize Theron as Wuornos. It chronicles Wuornos’ story from childhood until her first murder conviction. The film earned Theron an Academy Award for Best Actress.“ HG, I looked at her childhood on Wikipedia and it was horrible almost beyond imagination.
Dearest H.G.: Continued: “Assessed using the Psychopathy Checklist, Wuornos scored 32/40.[30] The checklist evaluates individuals on a 20-item list of antisocial and interpersonal behaviors, with each item being scored at zero, 1 or 2 and thus a maximum score of 40. Depending on location and research perspective, scores above 25 or 30 are consistent with a diagnosis of psychopathy.[31][32]“ “Psychopathology model[edit]
Wuornos’s crimes are consistent with the psychopathology model of women who kill. She was considered to have a psychopathic personality.[57] Using the Psychopathy Checklist, Wuornos was found to have a psychopathic personality with a PCL-R score of 32[57] with the cutoff score for psychopathy being 30 in the United States.[31] Wuornos also allegedly met the criteria for both borderline personality disorder and antisocial personality disorder.[57]“ “Her traumatic upbringing, including physical and sexual abuse, have been partially linked to the development of borderline personality disorder.[57] Such severe trauma can also interrupt the development of the mind and result in “primitive, dissociative, and splitting defenses to ward off the intensity of emotional and sexual stimulation that cannot be integrated as a child.”[59]“ Much of Wuornos’s childhood sexual abuse and career in prostitution are said to have damaged her irrevocably[58] and it could be seen that traumatic experiences throughout most of her young life could play a part in Wuornos’s psychological state, including her biological mother’s departure as well as her grandmother ignoring the abuse she endured from her grandfather, thus leading to the lack of development of a “mother-daughter” bond for Wuornos as a young girl.[58] The damage was then made worse as both Wuornos and her brother believed that their grandparents were their biological parents, but at age 11 learned this was not the case, which further damaged the relationship between Wuornos and her adoptive parents.[58] Wuornos was also known to have early behavioral problems such as having an explosive temper which limited her ability to make friends as well as making it increasingly difficult to maintain relationships.“ HG, what stands out to me also is this idea: “splitting defenses to ward off the intensity of emotional and sexual stimulation that cannot be integrated as a child“~~wikipedia
Interesting. So by way of example, someone such as Thomas Hamilton – Dunblane massacre, he may not necessarily have been an N (although he could have been). I don’t particularly know anything about him. But could he could have been an N, or perhaps psychotic or even an empath gone supernova
Not an empath. Narcissist. He had an ongoing battle with various groups concerning his belief he was being smeared by them. He also operated boys’ camps which invited question in terms of conduct. There is too much detail to explain in a comment but in essence as time went on, his fuel matrix foundered and therefore he was nowhere near as fuelled as he should be, so that any wounding would tip him into a position of serious ignited fury. This also meant that his inherent paranoia as a narcissist was more prevalent, if you will, it made itself none over and over and pushed him to respond in an extreme manner.
That’s really interesting. Yes the story behind it is beginning to come back to me a little.
That all makes so much sense. Hugely grateful to you for providing so much clarity.
Do you have a well known example of a case where an empath has been a serial killer?
I don’t.
Ah okay thank you. So a theoretical possibility but highly unlikely.
Psychotic episode perhaps but extremely unlikely.
Really. Thank you
There are many movies where men seek justice after their family is killed and such, but I found, I think, one with a woman, who kills after an injustice. The movie is with Jodi Foster and titled: The Brave One. `Radio host Erica Bain (Jodie Foster) is working and living a wonderful life in New York City without a care in the world. One night she and her fiancé, David (Naveen Andrews), are brutally attacked by three thugs in the park while being recorded by one of them. David is killed and Erica is beaten within an inch of her life. Erica is traumatized to a point where she can not sleep and will not leave her apartment. To cope and work past this tragic event, Erica becomes someone else. She buys a gun and begins to roam the streets at night looking to take her revenge on the men who were responsible for killing her one true love. One late night, Erica is in the back of a convenience store about to purchase a soft drink when a man comes in and shoots the clerk, who is his estranged wife. He realizes Erica is a witness and comes after her but she shoots him and escapes, taking the store CCTV video with her to hide her involvement. Days later, Erica is on the subway when she witnesses an attack on a youth by two men. They steal his iPod, and when an old man intervenes they threaten him and his son. The three of them hastily leave the train at the next stop and the two men approach Erica as she is the only other person in the carriage. They pull a knife on her but she shoots them both and quickly leaves. The City of New York is fascinated with the exploits of this vigilante killer, and NYPD Detective Mercer (Terrence Howard) is assigned to catch this person, who they believe is a man, before he kills again. Erica interviews Mercer as part of her radio show and they become friends, both linked by their inability to sleep at night. He tells her that he is prepared to go beyond the law to catch some criminals, but asks Erica to erase this comment from her tape. Erica continues to kill, rescuing a drugged prostitute from a car but, in killing the driver as he tries to run them over, the prostitute breaks her leg and when the police arrive, take her to hospital, though she is very close to death. Later on Erica gets a lead of where she can find the three men in the park and goes there to seek vengeance. She manages to kill all but the last one, being then saved by Detective Mercer whom she had already befriended and let her kill the last thug using the Mercer’s gun so no one would link her to the killings.` I think this is a movie example of an Empath turning into a serial killer.
Alexis, I found a TV series very interesting, I think it was called most evil or something like that … they explained different types of murderers (real cases / real people). Top of the list: narcissistic psychopaths, as HG is.
So, they have different reasons, of course. And people who, as HG says, have a psychotic episode, or commit murder because of jealousy, because they snap … etc… are considered “less evil”. Different patterns, often a one-off, usually not going through life killing one person after the other … , and often deep remorse, afterwards. While a sociopath might go on and on … They had an example of a narc killing all his friends planfully, one after the other. Yet he wasn’t at the top of the evil scale ….. Top of list was real mass murderers, guys killing prostitutes, …. guys who were eating people … But if I remember correctly, considered most evil were those who liked to torture their victims first, then kill them eventually and moving on to the next victim. Usually psychopathic as in “no empathy”, if I’m not mistaken.
Thank you PrincessEmpath and Ava.
I’ll check out the film, it certainly sounds like an empath!
Most Evil sounds really interesting too, I certainly want to find out more about this.
really helpful – both of you x
Truth. Very well put as well, thx pal.
Well, that settles that. My Narc Ex is a sadistic narc. Not surprised.
This made me shudder. As if just being a narcissist is not enough, based on what he told me he was doing to his ex wife (and what I was otherwise aware of) I can see he’s also got a sadistic streak 😢 Not a surprise, really.
Aww Joanne I am sorry!