Everpresence

everpresence 

Ever presence. A hugely important element of the narcissistic relationship. We must create it in order to ensure that you are prevented from moving on and to maximise our prospects of executing a successful post escape or post discard hoover. Ever presence is the act of making us seem like we are still with you, even though we are not physically proximate to you. It is a necessary device so that we remain in your thoughts, we loom large in your memories and we permeate each day as you try to survive without us. Ever presence is highly effective because it is woven into the fabric of our engagement so that it infects all of your senses. We want you to feel us when you hear some music, we want you to think of us when there is a certain fragrance in the air, we want you to recall us when you see a particular item or watch a film, we want you to remember us when your fingers wrap around a particular object and we want you to sense us with you when you taste a drink or a meal. We do not just want our memory to spring from one item alone but from repeated reminders of what we had together. Largely ever presence is created so you remember the good, so you hark back to the golden period and experience that sense of yearning which causes you to break no contact. There are times when ever presence can be a reminder of the bad times as well although this is rarer and might only be done and activated for the purpose of malign hoovers.

What is going through our mind though when ever presence is created? Is it a conscious act? Do we plan it? Do we consider how best to achieve ever presence or is it just sheer coincidence that it happens, a result of the powerful emotions that we evoke in you that just happen to be imprinted with relatively run of the mill and mundane occurrences? Are you culpable for the creation of ever presence by falling so deeply and intensely in love with us that you place such emotional stock in certain songs, events and places? Is it all planned and orchestrated, a dark grand design that is wheeled out as part of our ongoing and calculated manipulation of you?

The Lesser, as you might expect, creates the least powerful ever presence. This is as a consequence of two factors. The first is that he does not act through calculation but rather through instinct. He will know that picking a nick name for you, choosing “our song” and sending you a few gifts is part of how the romancing should proceed but he gives little thought as to how this will impact on you. Secondly, the weaving of ever presence occurs through the seduction phase as a consequence of the creation of all these marvellous memories. The Lesser does not so much go in for love-bombing but rather keeps the beast under lock and key during the golden period (which might be better named as the bronze period for the Lesser Narcissist). Since there is less in the way of love-bombing it follows that there is less sowing of the ever presence. The Lesser does however gain a distinct advantage over the other two schools as a consequence of this approach. The paucity of ever presence items means that when you happen upon one it has particular resonance. He may not have been overly romantic during the seduction but the fact that he baked some chocolate muffins for you and they became his signature dish means that the memory is especially strong with such an item. The fact that he would only slow dance with you to one particular song means that should you ever hear that song again, the recollection of dancing cheek to cheek is powerful indeed. None of this arises from calculation. The Lesser does the bare minimum when it comes to the seduction. Taken further, when dealing with the Victim Narcissist (who is usually a Lesser and occasionally a Mid-Range) you actually contribute to the creation of ever presence. This happens because you made certain dishes that he enjoyed and therefore should you make them now, it will remind you of how he praised you for making that delicious pie or tasty lasagne. It might be that every Sunday he took his weekly bath and you would scrub his back and wash his hair for him, pandering to the mothering instinct that many Victim Narcissists require. Each week at 7pm on a Sunday you will be moved to think that this was the time when you would tend to him in the bathroom. Thus the demands and the needs of the Lesser become a form of ever presence in themselves.

The Mid-Range, similarly lacking awareness, does not know that he is creating ever presence. He does however have enough about him to know that making a good effort during seduction will win him the prize that he requires and he will make good use of all the usual tangible effects which go into creating ever presence. He will sow them through the seduction. He will endeavour to mirror your likes and dislikes but he will also use his ability to evoke pity to good effect in the creation of ever presence. For instance, he may choose certain songs which he claims are representative of his desire for you. You may not actually like the songs that much, perhaps they are a different musical genre to the ones you like, but you are still pleased that he has taken the time to send these songs to you and to make them part of what constitutes “you and him”. Accordingly, these songs take on a particular resonance as they become representative of the relationship. You could not bear to tell him that you found Luther Vandross or Michael Buble corny, he sidled up to you simpering and cooing, so you went with the flow and allowed them to be woven into the relationship until they mattered. The Mid-Range places particular emphasis on wooing his victim (whereas the Greater bowls the victim over with his magnificence) and as part of this wooing he will ensure that he looks presentable, takes the victim to special places and treats the victim well, offering gifts and other favours. All of this wooing creates the ever presence which is a happy side effect from the behaviour of the Mid-Range.

The Greater sets out to establish ever presence with his victims. He knows of his addictive quality and wants to get you hooked. He deliberately ascertains what you like not only in order to mirror you as perfectly as possible but also to gather ammunition for the purposes of creating the ever presence. The Greater knows that for ever presence to be effective it must span the five senses and be regularly imprinted so the victim is conditioned. The Greater also knows that the grander the gesture and of course he is all about the grandiosity, the more likely it is to have an imprinting effect. By combining this with repetition and the breadth and depth of the use of all five senses, the ever presence created by the Greater is formidable indeed. The Greater also goes further because he not only will lace where you live with so much ever presence but he will endeavour to infect other places as well. The place you work, the places you dine, the places you like to shop, to go walking, go cycling and so forth. During the seduction, each time the Greater does something new with his victim he will be looking to imprint his presence on the event. It might be carving the initials on a tree beneath which you sat holding hands, it might be naming the view after you both when you halted on a mountain bike ride. It could be asking a bar man to create a cocktail in your name or ensuring that you are recognised and called by name by the maitre’d at certain establishments.

The Greater knows exactly what he is doing when he creates ever presence. Not only this, he has done it so many times with other victims he knows that it is effective. He already has a template which he applies. A template of songs, fragrances, textures, places and tastes that he uses for each victim. He might vary some of the items within this template, but often they are the same. He will ensure that his cologne is distinct and unusual, that there are key songs that embody the relationship, he will leave a particular piece of clothing with you early on which is pleasant to touch, he will ensure there are signature bars, restaurants, walks and such like. This imprinting will continue in the bedroom where he will perhaps unveil a particular word or phrase which is unusual (to you) which he uses on the point of orgasm (yours or his) or as a safe word. He will murmur something in your ear and touch you in a particular way, when combining with music in the same way to ensure that your sensations are heightened so that when you hear that song, you not only think of the Greater but you hear his voice in your ear and his breath on your neck. All of it is calculated and planned, even though there may not be vast differences between what is applied to each of his victims. After all, if it works and is efficient, he will go along with it.

105 thoughts on “Everpresence

  1. Bluewave says:

    Mine had very strange orgasms. During his orgasms he used to stare directly and deepy in my eyes (psychopathic, frightening stare) and was repeating my name till the end. He was looking like he was dying and saying goodbye to me. It was very unusual, weird and creepy.

  2. Veronique Jones says:

    This is my weakness when it comes to narcissists I remember everything good and bad but I don’t like to think about the bad things after a time the pain gets less and when I get reminded of them it’s the good things about them I remember this is why benign hoovering worries me , malignant hoovering just instantly reminds me of of the bad and my guard goes up and it is pretty much impenetrable but benign hoovering reminds me of the good times and I get caught off guard and then I am venerable to my emotional thinking 🤔

    1. Mercy says:

      Veeonique, I’m just the opposite. Every good memory is tainted with the lies of what was really happening without my knowledge.

    2. Kitster says:

      It’s a discipline. Reprogramming the brain is time consuming and requires effort. When I understood this, I didn’t look back. The problem we have is we don’t want to let them change us (ie give up our empathetic traits) when we need to change.

  3. Kiki says:

    I don’t think the memories ever fade it’s just the emotions that are attached to them weaken.
    Everpresence is a killer to get past.
    Im six months absolute no contact after a brutal hoover. no new hoover yet. I kind of went supernova I think?

  4. Kitster says:

    Hello

    I have in the last week read all your articles and all discussions.

    This has been very illuminating to me (geyser/supernova empath) with narc mother realising virtually every relationship I have had has been with narcissistic men (I am highly attractive to them for reasons I now understand, and I have not weeded them out…largely because the differences in the various cadres meant I discerned differences rather than commanality).

    My question relating to this post is…Are you sure the hoovering is not consciously planned even by low and mid?

    I have very early on in dating had conversations such as:

    Me: x is our work pub, we always go there on Fridays

    N: That’s good to know

    And many, many similar, which surely imply a future where we have broken up, I am not responding to contact, and you are attempting to bump into me.

    Needless to say, N du jour has always watched my face most closely whilst saying this…how does she react when I’ve promised forever, yet reference this future scenario?

    Thank you for reading this and it would be wonderful if you answered it!

    But thank you anyway.

    K

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Read the articles Does the Lesser /Mid Range Narcissist Know What He Is Doing?

      The comment in your scenario is made with reference to the here and now and although it references a future event, the purpose is for that moment. This is because the Lesser and Mid Range Narcissist has to control the moment, not 5 minutes ago, not in a week’s time but NOW. Why do you think Future Faking occurs? It is something said NOW, about something in the future which often does not happen (because the narcissist is not interested in the future) in order to exert control and gain fuel NOW.

      1. foolme1time says:

        Now I understand the whole future faking bullshit! Even Greaters do this. However you as a greater do think about the future correct HG? Or is it that you only think of your future and not the future of others? I honestly didn’t understand how future faking worked until just now. I knew fuel was involved of course.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Greaters plan for the future. We also use the future to control the now.
          Lesser and Mid-Range only use the future to control the now.

          1. foolme1time says:

            HG do greaters also get fuel from both, the now, which would be the fuel from the future plans you tell them about, and the future, which would be the fuel received when those plans fall through?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Yes.

          3. foolme1time says:

            Thank you HG.

      2. Mercy says:

        HG, This explanation gave me a “aha” moment. I never thought of future faking as control of the hear and now moment. Thank you

        1. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

          Mercy. It is unbelievable. If I promised something to people I know, and then gaslighted them etc., I would be ostracized and cut off, one way or the other.. It is amazing what some people can get away with and what some people can not get away with. However, the Narcissist knows whom to treat this way. Their partners. Their Lieutenants. Their Coterie. And Strangers. And they know whom not to treat this way. Otherwise, they`d all be kicked out of everywhere. There is not that much ignorance in the world. Narcissist fake ignorance, engage in magical thinking a lot, but with those that are in their circle. Imagine telling a client you will give them the project next week, and then say you did not say that. Imagine telling an employer that you gave the seminar, when you did not do so. It is too hilarious to contemplate.

          1. Mercy says:

            PSE, I agree it is unbelievable. I put my narc in the position of your examples. I honestly don’t think there’s anyone who he wouldn’t treat this way. Not even an employer or client. He literally made the world revolve around him. If there were consequences, he changed the rules or started a new game. I can’t imagine living a life like that.

          2. SMH says:

            Mercy, I think it definitely helps to realize that they do this with everyone. It makes us not special in a good way and helps us to move away from taking it personally.

          3. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            Mercy, he knew he could attempt to pull all of this on you, because he already knew that you had crossed the line and had entered the fog which covers the streets of Narcville. All that you just wrote is not exactly lovebombing, is it? They have a worn map of Narcville. They already know the tried and true paths, the stop lights, the green lights, the yellow lights, the caution signs, the cul de sacs, the speed bumps, the tertiary roads, the highways, the dead zones, the exits ramps, the one-way and two-way streets, etc., and they know when they accidentally run us through a dead end road (exposing themselves). So we are just on a bad ride with a seasoned taxi driver in Narcville. However, we now have our own map: HG Tudors Award Winning Map >>> HG Tudor`s `Emergency Exit Map for Passengers that Haplessly Find Themselves on the Foggy Streets of Narcville!` Fortunately, HG knows all the secret escape routes out of sneaky, foggy Narcville.

          4. SMH says:

            I love those analogies, PSE.

          5. Mercy says:

            PSE, Haha very clever. I love this and it’s so true

        2. foolme1time says:

          Mercy I am glad I wasn’t the only one! I thought the fuel came after the hurt and disappointment of realizing that what they promised was a lie and was never going to happen. I guess they could actually get it from both. Let’s say for example if you were a iss and the narcissist said you, “ I will be in your area on whatever date, would you be able to meet me there? You get all excited about the idea of actually getting to spend some quality one on one time with them, now I see where the fuel would come into play for that, the excitement and happiness of being with them and having time with them. But I also see the fuel that they receive when those plans that you have been looking forward to for months doesn’t happen and they tell you things have changed I have work or will be out of the Country now at that time. The disappointment and hurt from that would also give them fuel. This is how I’m understanding it now, is this what you got from it? 🙃

          1. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            Foolme1time: (1) Perhaps a better appliance came along. And you are being shelved. Better fuel appeared on the scene. He is not trying to hurt you, but he is trying to fuel himself better. And, he can not tell you this because he is not triangulating this time around. (2) Or, you are being punished for something you are not aware of that injured him, and he deliberately led you on to hurt you back (Negative Fuel). (3) Or he actually can not come because of business, and he is telling you the truth. (4) And, he did want to see you because you were deemed good at that time and he did anticipate the fuel from the visit., etc. However, It is tough to know. HG says I corrupt my truth-seeker trait when I try to figure out at all times what happened, or what is happening when dealing with a Narcissist, and this leads to my endless rumination about the Narcissist, as well. And endless rumination about the Narcissist is not healthy for me: because, the person, at end, is a Narcissist. 🙂

          2. foolme1time says:

            Ode, It was really quite simple, as I am finally beginning to learn. Fuel! It was all about fuel! It doesn’t matter what excuse he came up with or what I thought it might be. In the end the answer was simply Fuel! 😘

          3. foolme1time says:

            Princess Super the comment was suppose to be to you. However once again auto correct got me! 🙃

          4. SMH says:

            PE and FM1T, You are both right. A story (longish):

            MRN once future faked for 2 months while I was away and he was coming on business to my city. He made me promise to meet him at his hotel (he had tried once before but I didn’t go because they would have thought I was a prostitute he’d picked up in midtown bars). This went on from October through early December. He contacted me every day and seemed to really miss me. Ha.

            The morning he arrived, he made sure I was coming. He then canceled on me with an excuse that I knew was a lie. But he didn’t really cancel – he basically left me hanging. I wracked my brain – how could he have another woman there (guessing)? I was pretty upset but contained it as we weren’t really in a relationship anyway. No fuel and no further communication.

            Two days later he emailed an apology which was also weird – the way he wrote it. I did not respond. No fuel. A month later, I returned to London still NC. Two hours after I LANDED, he messaged ‘where are you?’. He knew the exact day and time I was returning because months earlier he had asked and I had told him.

            So why was he pretending? Well, he needed to lure me back in order to get fuel. He proceeded to tell me about another fuel source as well as about IPPS (first I knew). He then tried triangulating me with both. I sarcastically asked him which one I should be worried about. He responded all serious, ‘which one are you worried about?’ I said ‘neither because I don’t compete with other women.’ (He asked what I meant!!).

            I sent him a very nice email about his wife and family without getting angry that he had lied to me. I did not mention the other fuel source at all because clearly he was fantasizing. Then I went NC.

            Three weeks later, he contacted me on a dating site!!! I told him he was acting like a psycho, took screen shots, deactivated my account and continued NC (for another few months – this was only Act I). I am laughing now because it is obvious it was all about the fuel, but it wasn’t back then. I was so, so confused. The red flags were all there with me barely doing anything:

            1. E-tethering
            2. Future faking
            3. Control freakishness
            4. Shelving
            5. Fuel seeking
            6. Lying
            7. Triangulation
            8. Stalking

            It is possible to parse these dramas if you really put your mind to it, thanks to what HG has taught us. But as PE says, all you need to know is that the person is a narcissist. It makes what seems to be a complicated story pretty simple, really.

          5. Mercy says:

            FM1T, I do think they can gain fuel when the promise is broken but from HGs explanation, I’m getting that the future plans are made with no thoughts of the future or future fuel. If there is fuel from breaking the promise it wasn’t intentional or thought out.

            Also I don’t think all promises broken provide fuel. Have you ever been promised something then when the time came you got complete silence? Silent treatment? It happened to me a few times and now I know it was because he had shiny new fuel sources to play with. My hurt feelings annoyed him and interfered with his new fuel.

          6. foolme1time says:

            Mercy yes HG states that lower and mid rangers do not plan ahead, but that Greaters do. I think your hurt feelings provided him with fuel my dear. They get it where ever they can. 😘

          7. Twilight says:

            FM1T

            This conversation of future faking has caught my attention more then it normally would….I need the woods to clear my thoughts.

          8. foolme1time says:

            Twilight it was like a lightbulb went off in my head! I’m heading to the trail now, to spend time in the woods.

          9. Twilight says:

            FM1T

            I just had a few things remind me to not expect anything or place my hope in what another does, anything can happen and things change.

            They live in the moment of the here and now many live in the hopes, expectations and dreams of the future.

            I am tire and have been having strange dreams recently

          10. foolme1time says:

            Twilight I have placed hope in others so many times, and each time they have not come through. I am also feeling very tired inside this week and am struggling to keep moving forward, although I know not to count on anyone accept yourself, right now I am not certain I can even do that. I hope you can work this out in your mind and get some much deserved rest Dear Twilight.

          11. Twilight says:

            FM1T

            I am scare to hope in a situation in my private life which is one reason why I believe my dreams have been so strange.
            I really liked the flowers…..

          12. foolme1time says:

            Twilight please read FYCs comment to me on this post. I think it will help you tremendously. 😘🐺

          13. foolme1time says:

            They are beautiful flowers for a beautiful lady Twilight. Eyes wide open my friend, eyes wide open. 🥰

          14. Twilight says:

            FM1T

            I am going to Assateague tomorrow to spend the day on the beach so long as it doesn’t rain.
            That will do me good.
            I will find the comment to you later this evening now I need to unwind from my last three patients of the day.

          15. foolme1time says:

            Twilight
            I am such an emotional wreck today that when I seen you were going to Assateague my eyes leaked! Lol. Have a wonderful time tomorrow Twilight! Tell the ponies I will see them soon! 😘🐺

          16. Mercy says:

            FM1T, I’m sure there was a smidge of fuel from my hurt feelings but there is no competing with new fuel.

          17. foolme1time says:

            Mercy your not telling me anything I don’t already know!😪

          18. foolme1time says:

            Mercy just remember, that new fuel will get old also, and when they come back for some of that old fuel they left behind, we won’t be there!! Hang in there girl! 😘

          19. Mercy says:

            Thank you FM1T. Yes he goes through his appliances like they are disposable. I don’t envy any of them

          20. SMH says:

            Mercy,

            MRN did that to me too as I just posted to PE and FM1T, but he wouldn’t let me get away with not providing fuel. He literally chased me through two countries and then stalked me online seeking fuel.

            I think both things are possible – maybe the new fuel source is pretty solid, in which case negative fuel would interfere. But say she is not really solid or he is just playing around or is bored – in that case, he would want the fuel.

            I said at one point that it always seemed to me that MRN was under the impression that I wanted to be IPPS even though I made it clear that I did not. He wanted me to compete for him. He wanted the fight. He didn’t want ME. He just wanted the fuel (what he called ‘drama and tears’).

          21. FYC says:

            Hi FM1T, My heart goes out to you on this one:

            “I have placed hope in others so many times, and each time they have not come through.”

            This sentence of yours describes my youth through mid 30s. So much open-hearted, blind trust and hope that I felt was a joyful way of being (until it wasn’t). Unfortunately, back then I was not using my logic in matters of the heart. Open trust and naïveté ruled the day. I wanted to believe the good. I could not reconcile my heart and head when trust and hope was shattered.

            Reality kept giving me a wake up call, but I hit snooze, until one day I finally really awoke. I bargained, “But I want to hope and trust, I believe in both.” After years of blindly hoping and trusting, and trying to find a different answer, Truth knocked at the door.

            I opened the door and Truth said, “There is nothing wrong with hope, but you must remove your blindfold and always look for me first and listen carefully.” I decided to do exactly that.

            I left behind my blind, carefree existence with a heavy heart and no fond farewells and sought Truth. The more I sought the more I found. Until one day the whole truth was revealed. I said to heaven above, “Why must the truth hurt so much?” The answer returned loud and clear, “Truth sets you free. The pain you feel is from longing to believe something false.”

            From that point on I got it, and Truth has never let me down, but false hope not founded on truth always will.

            I hope this little story helps. Don’t let a heavy heart keep you down. You are a sweet soul. You wanted to see the good and placed your hope and trust accordingly. Now that you know the truth and possess all of HG’s insights, you can be light and free, just always seek the truth first. It may not be what you want to see but it will be exactly what is needed, so you can look to better places to hang your hopes. Sending big hugs! 😘

        3. Mercy says:

          I know how to spell here. Just saying for the record

          1. shesaw says:

            Mercy 😂

      3. Kitster says:

        Thank you very much. So: it’s said simply to get an emotional reaction at that point in time, as I process the implications of what ahs been said, feel (and express even non-verbally) uncertainty, fear and confusion. That is pretty mean!

  5. J.G THE ONE says:

    Hello, H.G.Tudor.
    You are an adult and you will know that the narcissist is in our mind. And I wonder, the bass and middle narcissist know of this fact or are they just mere conjecture?
    Because they are not so clever unless their victims tell them so.
    I have thought that one of the most difficult things to eliminate is everpresence I would say almost impossible. Unless you cut your head off or have a lobotomy. But I think there must be some technique to eliminate everpresence from the thought.
    One of the best techniques is the decanting of memories, eliminating the emotional thought, leaving them to decant themselves and go to the bottom in oblivion. We are infected by this Everpresence so it is not good to move or shake the shit out of narcissistic relationship.
    Only what is necessary for the understanding and acceptance of what has been lived. And after this purge let everything go down. Zero contact and the suppression of emotional thought will make these poisonous memories remain in the background. If you are lucky enough to move to another place and start over, it would be the right thing to do. This is my opinion.

  6. SMH says:

    Definitely true of my LesserEx. When we split up (me IPPS), it was as if all of the mundane stuff I would do for him was embedded in my skin. It felt like my right arm was gone or my kid had run away. I was consumed with guilt – shrink, benzos, dating, dancing, whatever it took to get past it I did. Suddenly MRN appeared with his more contained ever presence as I became a SIPSS. This is why I would think fondly of MRN. He swept away the remains of Lesser’s ever presence.

    1. Mercy says:

      SMH, what’s behind door number 2? More ever presence!! Yay! Haha one day we’ll choose the right door.

      1. SMH says:

        lol Mercy. When one door closes, another one always opens, right? That’s what they say!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Not in a prison cell or a tomb, SMH!

          1. SMH says:

            HG, I know prisons and tombs are your kind of thing, but there are always the pearly gates waiting if you would only believe…(insert cry/laugh emoji here).

          2. HG Tudor says:

            Sold the pearls and melted the gates down some time ago SMH.

          3. SMH says:

            I believe it, HG, soulless creature that you are!

          4. FYC says:

            HG,
            “Sold the pearls and melted the gates down some time ago”

            So the entry is left permanently open!
            Maybe leave your options open as well 🙂

      2. SMH says:

        Mercy, speaking of ever presence, I went to IG this evening to look at an artist I like (public). IPPS knows the artist because all of our kids went to the same school (artist’s son is also friends with mine). I saw that IPPS had ‘liked’ one of the artist’s posts and I looked closely at IPPS’s tiny profile pic because she changed it from flowers to a bottle of booze. But I was not at all tempted to look at IPPS’s IG, which was always public. I could have clicked on it easily, but said nah, and moved on. 18 months ago I would have looked at it five times already today! One day you too will see something that reminds you of BS but it won’t interest you.

        1. Mercy says:

          SMH, there was a very big event recently that BS was a part of. I only know because of other people posting. In the past I would have been online searching for the results of the event. I didn’t this time. I actually forgot until I saw a post (mutual acquaintances) saying that he won the event and posting pics. It bothered me some. Mostly I wanted him to fail. I’d love for his fuel well to run dry. Oh well. Point is I notice things are better.

          Not gonna lie, I would have looked at IPPS. Good for you for not caring.

          1. SMH says:

            Mercy,

            Good for you too!! It is way way harder to see a picture and people posting. I don’t know anyone except in passing who knows MRN – we are just on the edge of two degrees of separation. Plus he is in a different country, so it is much easier to avoid reminders because there aren’t any. I have full control of that. If I don’t go looking, I don’t see anything.

            Speaking of ever presence, I was just noticing that work narc’s minion hadn’t emailed this week. Turns out he is ill. Work narc never emails but he just contacted me directly and now we are having lunch tomorrow. Erghh. I made a little joke about something but he doesn’t seem to be the type to use emojis (just like MRN – I had to train him to include a smiley face or a heart occasionally because his written affect was so flat). At least I’ve been preparing by coming here, and it redirects the little part of my brain that occasionally drifts towards MRN.

            It seems it takes a narc’s ever presence to knock out another narc’s ever presence. The trick is to manage the ever presence – don’t breathe it in too deeply 🙂

          2. Mercy says:

            SMH, Haha you play with fire. Cancel lunch!

          3. SMH says:

            Mercy, I can’t. It’s work! Hahaha. And you know I am kind of fascinated. How could this possibly be happening again?! But I will be a good girl.

          4. SMH says:

            Mercy,

            Back with a report. Yesterday there was someone else on ‘work narc’s’ emails so I thought there would be three of us at lunch but it was just us two. He asked me to be on another project with him but I said no and explained why (my other commitments and specializations). He was really kind about it – – sort of apologetic that he had even asked. We had a free ranging discussion for the next hour and a half – just throwing ideas around – and I was late for my next thing.

            I’ve misread people before but I didn’t feel any of that out of the blue struck by lightning love bombing narc energy. He wasn’t testing me, he was respectful, he didn’t play games and he wasn’t self-absorbed or cocky. He IS a lot like MRN but only superficially. He is not a narc. I am relieved because we have to work and travel together. I now do not have to be on high alert.

          5. Mercy says:

            SMH, Dear you better talk to The Man. HG will know. Be safe with your heart lady. My fingers are crossed for you.

          6. SMH says:

            Mercy,

            Thank you. I think I am alright – he’s only in my subconscience. I had a dream that he kissed me and suddenly the door burst open and all of our co-workers were standing there. Hahaha. I almost wrote to him – I did have something to tell him – a new work development/coincidence. But when I titled it ‘everything happens for a reason’ I decided it was better not to write!! New rule: do not reach out ever. Whatever it is can wait.

            Talking to the man might be a good idea but more if I cannot control my ET than to figure out whether work ‘narc’ is one.

            How was your Mother’s Day? It was not MD here. I had a fun day trip with a non-American friend.

          7. Mercy says:

            SMH, my mother’s day was good. Breakfast with the family then pedis with just the girls. A year ago I would have done the same thing but I would have been distracted with wondering what the narc was doing or the constant text. It feels really good to be present.

            I think your rule to not reach out is a good one. Look at it this way, even if he’s not a narc he’s married. There’s nothing positive about getting stuck on this guy. It would actually be insulting if this guy just wants a side fling. You deserve better than that. Crushing is one thing but don’t let your ET get you hung up.

          8. SMH says:

            Hi Mercy,

            Glad you had such a nice day! I know what you mean about being present. It is such a relief not to be fighting a wandering mind all the time, right? I’ve never had a daughter to do stuff with (I have my niece now, though we don’t live in the same place) but the only thing I ‘bought’ during my last stateside visit was a gel pedi. And breakfast is my favourite meal out. I don’t often eat it but when I do, I want a stack of pancakes, eggs and bacon (American streaky bacon, not the thick back bacon that Brits eat). Hot sauce and real maple syrup with that please. (I am making myself both homesick and hungry).

            Exactly about work narc. The key here is respect and I would not respect him either. I am also too demanding to be the side chick. I also don’t like the added secrecy issue. It takes up too much mental energy.

            Before the end with MRN, I could see it as a twisted situation that nevertheless made some sense. But after 6 months NC, there was no reason except his sense of entitlement to both me and IPPS. I urged him to stop cheating or get a divorce because *I* would otherwise have no respect for him. Since I knew he wouldn’t do either, and he knew that I knew that he wouldn’t, he has to live with the knowledge that I lost respect for him. He would never let on that it mattered, of course, but I know that it did. That is why the man-baby tease hit him so ridiculously hard.

            R-E-S-P-E-C-T to you, Mercy!

          9. Mercy says:

            SMH, you realize when we first started talking you thought of your relationship as convenient because of work and your busy lifestyle. Months later you view the lack of respect as outweighing the convenience. I was the same way. When I was entangled I had the thought that a open relationship could work as long as there was boundries. I realize now that I was changing my moral views to fit his lifestyle. Who cares about respect for them. We found respect for ourselves and that is so much more valuable. Here’s a virtual high five to you! ✋

          10. SMH says:

            Mercy,

            Thank you! You are right. He was testing my boundaries and so was I. And so was BS and so were you. MRN and I even discussed this at length but like a true narc, he didn’t listen when I predicted a train wreck, and didn’t listen when I left him half a dozen times. He didn’t even listen when I told him I had written a letter to IPPS, though I had not sent it. Anyone else would sense that the other person was cracking, but MRN simply could not see another person’s point of view (mind blind). The fuel needs really did run the show.

            Narcs in general lack respect for everyone – MRN not only disrespected me and BS not only disrespected you. They both disrespected IPPS and in a much bigger way to my mind because we knew about them but they did not know about us. They also disrespect their kids. That is small comfort to me but it is a comfort because we are not singled out for especially nasty treatment. They are that way to everyone.

            I still want a part-time relationship but not one that has to be a secret. But I think men are very dependent and it is difficult to find one who does not want a full time partner of some sort.

          11. Mercy says:

            SMH, I wouldn’t say I want a part time relationship. I want full commitment but I want what you want as far as someone that fits my lifestyle. I like my Independence’s and I want my partner to have freedom too. It has to be mutual. It requires alot of trust though. That type of relationship is perfect for the narcissist and they will take advantage.

            I knew a older lady that I use to work with. Her and her husband divorced and lived in separate houses. After the divorce they did everything together except live together. She told me it was the perfect relationship. They loved each other but they were happier with their Independence. As they grew older they became closer. They never remarried and he died a few years back. She lost her best friend. I want that!

          12. SMH says:

            Mercy, That is what I want too. I think by part-time I meant that I don’t want to live with anyone. But I don’t want to share anyone either. I think people who have been together for a long time and have loved each other for a long time might find an arrangement like what your co-worker had easier to manage. I can’t see anyone actually wanting to enter into such a relationship with someone new, but maybe I am wrong (I hope so!). I think most men are quite conservative when it comes to relationships I think because they are needier than women as they do not tend to have any emotional support. Women have large social networks and most men do not. A man who can be independent is therefore rare indeed.

          13. SMH says:

            Mercy, I know someone in her 70s (probably) who has had a full life, loves to travel, has grandkids, etc. She got back together with a boyfriend from her youth and he became very controlling. For instance, when they were travelling together, he wouldn’t let her out of his sight. It wasn’t as if she was going to run off with someone else! She had to end it because she began to feel suffocated, not to mention that she feared it would get worse. Most men want to own the woman. They don’t want a companion. They want someone to complete them.

          14. NarcAngel says:

            Mercy
            So……you want an unmarried dead guy? Different strokes.

          15. Mercy says:

            NarcAngel, I’d be getting the same amount of sex that I am now so why not.

          16. Mercy says:

            NarcAngel, just to be clear, I’m talking about no sex not necrophilia. I know where your mind goes haha.

  7. Claire says:

    No cheek to cheek dancing with lessers.. I’m not tending to people in washrooms either. Yuck.

  8. Carol says:

    Some real useful shit, thanks a lot for this, pal.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Pleasure, mate.

  9. empath007 says:

    This one is cured in time though (as are many other things)… memories do fade as we get on with our lives. It may take us longer but victims are not incapable of moving on and looking forward instead of back.

    1. Joanne says:

      empath007
      Thank you for saying that. I know it’s the truth, but my memory is so strong and combined with ET makes memories harder to fade. Eventually, though, it will 😌

      1. empath007 says:

        You’re welcome Joanne. You take whatever time it is you need to process your emotions about your individual circumstance. It is dismissive to expect that people should just “accept” abuse and move forward quickly. People may be well intended when they give the whole “accept reality and move on advice” … but some of us are not wired this way, when we take the time to work through our emotions properly I believe we will have more long term success in avoiding future incidents that are similar.

        I hope you are making many new memories that make you happy and help you forget ❤️

        1. Joanne says:

          Thank you empath007. And I hope the same for you!

      2. FYC says:

        Hi Joanne, I have read that memory fades more easily when you accept a reasonable conclusion in your mind and release.

        I think the challenge lies in the exchange between the emotion and logic.

        We can apply logic after the fact, and intellectually put together what took place. HG provides us exceptional insight that enables us discern what happened.

        Yet even armed with valid information, it’s as if we are trying to translate a message from French (a romance language) to Wenzhounese (affectionately coined “the devil’s language” due to the inherent degree of difficulty in understanding the dialect and in interpretation).

        And, yes, I had to Google to find the most difficult language to understand and interpret! ;-D

        1. Joanne says:

          FYC
          That is really a great analogy – translating from one language to another. Even more so when you consider the comparisons you’ve chosen, French being a Romance language and Wenzhounese being referred to as the Devil’s language. Many correlations to be made there.

          You and I have had this exchange before, on how logic prevails in the end but emotions still linger. It’s so true. And those emotions have this tendency to make the memories seem so much sweeter than the actual moments were in real life. As HG says “the never ending reel of ‘best of’ moments.” In realty, those moments really weren’t all that great!

          1. FYC says:

            Joanne, Exactly. So if you start to play that reel, remember your narcissist was only an actor portraying a role and using a well prepared script!

          2. Joanne says:

            FYC
            Yes, a very important reminder and reality check when that reel starts playing!

        2. Mercy says:

          FYC, I’ve been thinking about your comment today about finding a reasonable conclusion. I think you are on to something and I’ve been trying come up with that conclusion. What makes it hard is that reason and logic doesn’t apply when it comes to the workings of a narcissist.

          You are right about the exchange of emotion and logic. I can come up with a factual conclusion but that doesn’t conclude the emotional side of what happened. I think that the emotions have to be able to accept the reasonable conclusion in order for there to be release. I’ve started writing my thought down about this. Thank you for giving me some focus.

          1. FYC says:

            Hi Mercy, I’m grateful if my comment helped you in some way and you are certainly most welcome. Our emotions operate from the subconscious and reason operates from the conscious mind. We employ logic and reason after we feel our emotions to assign meaning and determine appropriate actions. It usually takes time to perform such an overlay because emotions are primal and demand out attention. I know you will find your resolution and peace in your own timing and emerge all the stronger for it.

            You fell in love with your narcissist’s illusion. You did not know it was a lie. Forgive yourself. You are a loving soul that had the courage to risk and to give freely.

            Your narcissist performed all of his beautiful lies and horrible machinations because that is the only way he can operate under his defense mechanism to serve himself and his needs.

            You found KTN, and learned all about his behavior and what drives his behavior. You found your logical answers. You know there could not have been any other conclusion.

            If you knew all you know now, you would not volunteer to enter that relationship then or now.

            For me, after I processed the hurt and anger, I began to see everything with absolute clarity. I forgave my narcissists, not for their actions, but because they cannot operate differently even if they had awareness. They are enslaved to their construct.

            I refuse to be enslaved by any injustice. I am no victim. I made mistakes in ignorance. That’s okay, I gained wisdom. I am stronger and well armed with new knowledge. I am free and armed with knowledge and greater wisdom. What a gift!

            I wish you the same freedom soon😘

          2. Mercy says:

            FYC, thank you for this. I’m so glad you found your freedom. I feel like im getting there. I’m happy but I do struggle when I’m in my own thoughts sometimes

            What you said about applying logic and reason after we feel our emotions is very interesting. I’m wondering if you, or anyone else reading, has a suggestion on controlling emotions in a situation you’ve already prepared for logically. I need to have an important conversation with my boss about a position. Unfortunately due to unfair treatment from a previous narc boss, someone else with equal qualifications has an advantage. I’m prepared with facts but my fear is emotions sabotaging the conversation so I keep putting it off. With what we’ve learned here about logical thinking I’m wondering if anyone else has had practice in dealing with untimely emotions. 

          3. FYC says:

            Hi Mercy, I am very happy you are getting there! My resolution took quite some time, it was not fast or immediate. You will be free once you process fully, I feel certain of that.

            Yes, I do have some thoughts on your question. I will separate the answer into two parts: person vs professional.

            Personal:
            Your feelings regarding someone you genuinely loved, but who could not return that love are valid and reasonable. Though your mind now possesses the logic and reasons why it cannot work, your unresolved feelings remain. Unresolved feelings travel down old neural pathways created by emotion. Each time you immediately apply logic and confirm you would NOT choose the same choices and accept your new resolution, you are creating or reinforcing new neural pathways. When fully accepted, you may remember your feelings, but you will not fully engage them nor follow them, as you are now following the new neural pathways (resolution and new behavior). You will be free.

            Professional:
            I have dealt with many narcissists in my profession at every level. You can and will succeed if you do 3 things: 1) Know what you know. Sounds simple, but I cannot tell you how many times I have seen smart people be uncertain of what they actually know. This doubt creates doubt in others. Do not indulge in doubt to be self-effecting. Be accurate. Be confident (not arrogant, but I know you are not;-) 2) As much as possible, keep your job as separate and distinct from your personal life. Your job is to perform to your best ability and provide your best counsel/service. Your focus at work is to be effective while maintaining integrity. Your personal life is less focused on effectiveness (performance) and more on appropriateness (loving, caring, etc). 3) Know your objective and stay on goal. As you become more successful, narcissists will be jealous. They will lie, steal, cheat, smear, etc., to keep you from your goal, or simply to elevate themselves. Expect this bad behavior. Expect to be frustrated by others who seek to keep you down and take advantage of you. Arm yourself with awareness. Anticipate emotions surrounding bad behavior so you are prepared. Gather your strength and breathe through your frustration. Do not let fear invade your process or progress.

            Specific to your situation, without knowing the details, do not focus on whatever your ex narcissist boss may or may not have said. Do NOT worry or let your emotions move you off your mark. Gather your thoughts prior to speaking with your prospective boss. Focus on *what you know* and *what you offer*. Be your usual warm and intelligent self.

            If you know with certainty your prospective new boss has heard (or brings up) a smear created by your exN boss, or was misinformed by your exN boss taking credit for your work or giving credit to your competitor, do not let this hijack your goals, simply explain the facts. If s/he has questions, answer them directly if favorable. If not, simply segue by saying something like, “It is unfortunate such a thing would be done, but now that you know what actually took place, I’d rather take this opportunity to share my ideas on how I may help you exceed your goals,” and change the subject to something positive for your new boss. No one wants to get involved in ugly politics or tangle with a narcissist. By politely and directly addressing any issue and sidestepping any emotional conversation, and by focusing on the positive, your new boss will be relieved and pleased to know her newest member of her team can deftly handle awkward situations.

            To answer your original question directly: work through your emotions now–prior to any conversation. Get them locked down and focus on your goal. You will succeed, Mercy!

          4. Mercy says:

            FYC, I feel like I am creating new neural pathways (I didn’t know that’s what I was doing). When I think of the ex and feel myself getting emotional I answer the emotions with a logical thought. The emotions are not so intense and the logic has given me the ability to make the choice to not reach out to him. 

            Professional: I love what you said. Know what you know. So simple but so true. The previous narc boss had her favorites. I was a favorite until she felt threaten by my abilities. In reality, I wasn’t a threat to her, I was a asset but she didn’t see it that way. Her answer was to show favor to another employee (hired the same day, same qualifications, same job title). My coworker and I had been attending classes and working towards a certification. Next thing I knew, she was setting the classes up for him and I was no longer included. Our wages are public (public employees) and when they were published, it was like a punch in the gut to see the gross difference. She had truly used her power to make sure I didn’t advance and by increasing his wages, I felt for the first time what discrimination feels like. 

            Turns out I was a threat. Being a public employee has advantages, and I had clear evidence. I wrote some letters with documentation to back it up. I had other employees write letters too. She was strongly encouraged to resign by the people she answers to. It was a win for the empath that time but now I’m feeling the effects. Our new boss is fair and he witnessed the demise of the narc boss so he is very careful. He immediately fixed the wages but the opportunity for me to finish my certification was never given to me. I was content and didn’t pursue it because it had no direct baring on our actual job and the competitive mindset was no longer there when the narc boss left.

            I made a mistake and got comfortable. Now opportunity for advancement has opened up and the only thing that stands in the way is a friendship between my coworker and new boss, and a piece of paper that means nothing but will be used as the reason he advances over me. 

            You are right about dealing with my emotions before I have the meeting. After reading your comment I realize that my emotions come from the fear of failing and the anger that I didn’t fully repair the damage caused by the narc boss. Thanks to your comment Im trying to accept that, although I’m qualified, I may not get the results that I want. I’m not going to give up but instead of dwelling on possible failure, I’ve decided I’m going to pursue other job opportunities if it comes to that. I think knowing I have that option will eliminate any strong emotions I feel when talking to my boss. 

            Thanks for helping me talk through this. I didn’t mean to unload my whole story but I feel better now that I did. Your comments are always so logical and they give me focus. I really appreciate and value your contribution here!

          5. FYC says:

            Mercy, Sorry for the autocorrect, S/B self-effacing not effecting and several other typos :-/

          6. FYC says:

            Hi Mercy, Yes, you are creating new neural pathways, excellent! Your new logic will help you in the workplace. The details you provided are helpful as well.

            It is unfortunate you did not ask to complete the certificate at the time you reported your complaint. Any differentiator can be used for employee selection. If the advancement is happening now, the cards are not stacked in your favor. But, never self-eliminate.

            You can be an empath and be successful. In fact, empathy offers many advantages when combined with logic. Just ensure your empathic nature is not used against you (people sense the vulnerability). Instead, view work life as separate from your personal life and act accordingly. I was given this advice long ago and it works beautifully. Think of it as onstage and backstage. All work and interaction with your work-related stakeholders is performance focused or “onstage” (i.e. You are performing your best and aware of your objectives and setting yourself up to succeed. Your are focused. You also identify your stakeholders and communicate effectively and proactively.)
            In your personal life, you are backstage (i.e. You are your relaxed authentic self, not worried about performance).

            Thinking in this way you can gear up for anything you may face at work and totally relax when you are home. Kind of like you would for a competitive sport. You prepare, you compete and you go home. Do not stay in the work mode or this will drain you to the point of burnout. Also, using this thought process keeps you on point and “parks” your emotional response until a time of your choosing. If you are highly empathic, this will feel weird at first, but it gets easier. It’s just a mental shift.

            The recipe for success looks something like this:
            1 part experience
            1 part knowledge
            2 parts intelligence
            2 parts will/drive
            4 parts interpersonal & communication skills
            5 parts awareness and management of stakeholders

            Add the first three ingredients and blend well with the following three ingredients and voile! Success. Of course not everyone needs this recipe if they know the right person, and others succeed by underhanded methods, but for empaths this works.

            Experience and knowledge can be obtained, yet alone these are not enough (including certificates)–these are the basic ingredients. Intelligence is a huge advantage, yet the majority of people are within a similar range. Intelligence can also be honed. Without the will and drive to reach your desired objectives, none of the above lead to success. Interpersonal and communication skills are vital. These assist you in everything you do at all times. Awareness and management of stakeholders is not often observed, yet a critical advantage.

            Your decision to stay or go is up to you. I would only caution you that the next place will also have similar human politics. So maybe take a chance. I have mentored many business executives. The number one reason people get stuck is because they believe they are stuck and remain in the same thought process. Yet others tend to believe what you do (within reason). You have more options than you think.

            Consider this option: Find out who your boss’s stakeholders are (they influence him). If you are on a good basis with some of these people, ask for their thoughts on how to specifically reach your goals. Use the opportunity to leave a positive message and to backchannel communications to your boss that you would want indirectly delivered to your boss by someone he values.

            Next, take a chance and talk to the new boss. Forget the past. Ask him what he would like to see and what his goals are. Let him know you are dedicated to exceeding expectation to help him meet his goals. Stay confident, matte-of-fact and on point. See how he responds. If he’s already made up his mind, you will not likely change it, but you will have at least planted good seeds. If you don’t like the result and have other more favorable options, go for it!

            You are smart and empathic, Mercy. You are a threat because you are great at what you do. Fantastic! Own it. Be savvy. Don’t worry about those around you (it only impedes performance anyway–like looking back during a race–it will cost you the win). You will succeed. I am sending you every ounce of confidence and positive energy I have, along with a hug. You’ve got this!

          7. Mercy says:

            FYC, I’m sorry about the late response. I wanted to think on what you wrote first and then yesterday had a minor setback with a Hoover that hijacked my thoughts. 

            As far as your comment & the onstage offstage example. That’s a great way to explain it. I think I do this for the most part. Very few people at work know me “off stage”. I’ve learned with experience that people can be unintentionally judgmental and you are right, empathy can be seen as a weakness. It’s just better to keep my personal life separate from my professional life. Maybe age has taught me this but I feel that the narc relationship was the biggest factor. There’s alot of secrecy when your involved with a narc. Your example also reminds me of the true self/false self conversation we had. I know from what you said that an empath doesn’t really fit into that theory but if we had a false self I would think “onstage” would be a good example of that. 

            You are right about the cards not stacked in my favor. Now you see my dilemma. I should be clear, I don’t say that I would look for other jobs opportunities out of spite. I actually enjoy what I do and the people I work with. It would be a hard decision to make. It’s just an option that I didn’t consider as a solution before. 

            Your recipe. I did a little comparison. Experience, knowledge, intelligence, will/drive. I believe my coworker and I are equal here. We have been competitive since the day we started. For the most part it’s been a healthy competition aside from the narc boss pitting us against each other.

             Interpersonal & communication skills. – He’s got me on this one. Interpersonal I have no problems with but he’s really really good at bullshitting his way through anything. His only weakness in this area is that it’s a little over the top. Unless hes dealing with someone that has high narc traits, his flattery is translucent. (I’m actually on the fence if he’s a narcissist. I lean towards narcissistic)

             Awareness and management of stakeholders – I got him here. I think this is my strongest asset. After thinking on this, I feel like most empaths would be strong in this area because of our 6th sense. I read people well and adjust accordingly. I think this is what you mean by management of stakeholders. Having the ability to recognize and influence?

             

            As I said the cards are stacked in his favor but the conversation I want to have with the boss gives him a second option to consider. We will see how it goes. Thank you for your input. I will keep you updated. 

          8. FYC says:

            Hi Mercy,
            Everyone has a true self/false self. Empaths and normals simply accept their true self and therefore use their false self for slight to moderate appropriateness and effectiveness (A/E) within their social environment.

            Narcissists true self was experienced as a life threatening vulnerability due to lack of attunement and abuse (conscious or unconscious) and LOCE. To cope, the budding narcissist develops the false self too quick/early in life as a defense mechanism (versus the A/E example above). The highly defended posture of the narcissist is maintained as a form of protection and coping. The narcissist is aware of their true self, but fears embracing it as it triggers the early feelings of dangerous vulnerability.

            Thank you for all the further clarification. Lock down your confidence. This guy blowing smoke (useless flattery) may seem to be liked for it, but intelligent people see through this even if their ego likes it.

            Being empathic does serve you in understanding the landscape, but it can also draw you into worry and defense in the presence of manipulation or lies. Avoid getting sucked in. Take the high ground. Stay on point and focused. Let your performance speak for itself.

            As for identification of stakeholders and the maintenance thereof, think of this as understanding who has a stake in what you serve (or could serve), and how you manage their needs/expectations via communication. Also understand the power of communication as a means of both direct and indirect influence (back channel communication is powerful too). Manage according to your objectives. Most people only view their peers or immediate superior as what they need to have concern for, but in truth it is far broader than this. If you think about what is important to your boss’s boss and maintain your peripheral vision for how others influence any decision, you can better set yourself up to succeed.

            I agree about keeping work and personal life separate.

            I truly wish you the best in this frustrating situation Mercy. Please do keep me posted. I am in your corner. You sound highly capable and strong, I have no doubt you are awesome and can prevail.

          9. SMH says:

            FYC, That is a really clear explanation of the true and false self in both the empath and the narc. Many thanks .

    2. Mercy says:

      Empath007, the memories are fading but I fear the ghost of him will never leave

      1. SMH says:

        I used to call MRN my ghost, Mercy, because I would have apparitions. I tried to explain it to him but I did not know what it was. Now I do. A year ago I wouldn’t have believed that I would one day be rid of that spectral presence. But I am now and I promise you your ghost will go too. It hasn’t been that long for you. It’s another reminder of why NC is so important. Each time you crack open the door, the ghost wafts back in.

        1. Mercy says:

          SMH, my ex use to say he could see spirits and ghost. I don’t think he was lying. It was creepy

          1. SMH says:

            Mercy, It was creepy but it was like that ghost was looking out for me. In a way, it’s too bad that it doesn’t happen anymore because it was soothing and it means that tie is broken, but all the shit that came with it I did not need.

          2. Mercy says:

            SMH, I wonder if you created that soothing feeling based on what you wanted him to be? Just a thought

          3. SMH says:

            Mercy, Of course! He was not trying to do it. He had his own reasons just as I had mine when I would reach out to him after long silences (so many escapes).

            One reason we kept falling back into the same thing was that he also felt my ‘ever presence’ (if that’s what it can be called for an empath – isn’t that why we are supposed to stay out of the spheres of influence?). I’d reach out as a friend and he’d be all over me. The last time it happened, we discussed it because I was suprised. I didn’t say anything to entice you, I said. I wasn’t trying to seduce you. He agreed, thought about it, and said that that he associated my messages with my touch. I said oh that’s weird, I thought I was the only one that happened to. Neither of us did it on purpose and we both misunderstood the other’s motivations.

            Some of this is normal between lovers, right? It is not all about the narcissism. When you are with someone you feel close to them, when you break up, you miss them. What is it that you miss? Their presence. They way I see it, it’s just way way more intense with narcissists because of what you said regarding the bright light and then the dimming of that light.

          4. shesaw says:

            Oh Mercy don’t open that box! Narcissists and magic – I believe there is a very strong connection there. Healers, shamans, Reiki masters, energy workers… I think if you make a study of it, you will probably find that narcissists are well represented in that division.

            I suppose that sensing energies, picking up on them, is what most narcissists are good at. Nex was very sensitive due his ever present need of protecting himself against perceived attacks – he could only use his sensitivity for his own needs, though. But I too believed him when he said he could sense many things around him. He proved that to be right several times.

            He was also very, very good in observing. The combination of the two (ultraobserving + sensitivity) makes a very forceful combination which narcissists possibly experience as ‘having magic powers’.

          5. Mercy says:

            Shesaw, I was wondering if anyone else had the same experience. It didn’t feel like a lie. When he would say something which wasn’t often, it was just normal to him. it was part of him like having a right and a left arm.

          6. shesaw says:

            Hm, Nex could boast about him having a sixt sense, knowing about others what they didn’t know themselves, etc. But he wasn’t totally unaware of his narcissism. He just didn’t realise that NPD had him, instead of him having NPD.

          7. Kitster says:

            If he was a narc, he was definitely lying. They can’t even see living people lol.

          8. shesaw says:

            Kitster, he lied a lot indeed, and he couldn’t see others with his heart.
            But he knew very well how to find the weaknesses in my ‘facade’, so he could put his hooks exactly where he needed them.
            Not that I think that he saw me. He caught me.

          9. Kitster says:

            Oh the threads on this. WordPress. This is a reply to She saw. I suspect your facade, although it takes an effort on your part to be that robust, is not really a facade. I suspect you are always very real and genuine. He sounds shabby. It sounds to me as if a very inferior person tried to make you feel less than him. And it sounds to me as if you have many years of life to go on and prove this true xx

          10. shesaw says:

            Kitster, thank you, that made me feel positive today. I can’t say he deliberately tried to make me feel less than him, but at least I took my power back. It was the most difficult game I’ve played in years, though😃
            What made you find narcsite? (if you want to

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