The Greater Narcissist – Five Facts



The five central questions have been applied in respect if the Lesser and Mid-Range of our kind, but what of the Greater Narcissist? How do these five essential questions about the behaviour of the narcissist apply to him or her?

1.Do We Know What We Are Doing?

The Greater Narcissist is gifted (though of course his or her victims will not regard it as such) with an awareness of what he or she is. The greater of our kind knows that they are different. They know that they have this insatiable hunger for the outpouring of emotion, whether positive or negative, from those around them. The greater knows that there is a feeling of emptiness which pervades. Whilst the lesser has this manifest as sense of unease and irritation, the greater feels a yawning chasm which must be filled. The lesser operates by instinct, a knee-jerk response. The Greater Narcissist also operates through instinct but there is nothing knee jerk about him or her. This instinct is attuned in the sense of selecting the victims who will haemorrhage fuel. This instinct enables the most effective seduction, the most devastating devaluation and the most callous of discards. The instinct for scenting fuel and those who will provide it serves the Greater Narcissist considerably. He has an instinctive knack for selecting the best hunting grounds, an innate ability to target the most productive victims, a chilling capability to extract and exploit information and to cause people to think that what they are doing is a good thing and one they wish to take when in fact the Greater Narcissist is manipulating them. The Greater Narcissist is aware that he or she is different from other people. He or she knows that their emotional spectrum has been stunted or as we prefer to regard it, altered to achieve maximum efficiency in our machinations. The Greater Narcissist knows he operates in a different world to other people and revels in such a special status. He or she knows that they are superior, admired and feared.

  1. Do We Know We Hurt Others?

Unlike the instinctive response of the Lesser Narcissist or the instinctive but more controlled moderate reaction of the Mid-Ranger, the Greater Narcissist knows that he or she is an instrument that inflicts pain. Whether it is the withdrawal of something wonderful or delightful or the imposition of something unpleasant and hateful the Greater Narcissist knows that they hurt. They regard every action taken in this regard, every step, every machination as necessary for their survival and advancement. The Greater Narcissist fervently believes in the doctrine that the end always justifies the means. Pain, misery and hurt are by-products of the process which he or she must engage in. The inflicting of hurt on another person is regarded as a collateral consequence of the need to obtain fuel. The Greater Narcissist knows that during devaluation and the malign hoovers that the application of his or her behaviours is specifically directed to cause hurt. You will take the view that he or she does not care and you are correct in that view since the Greater Narcissist, like all narcissists is not created to care. What you ought to understand though is that this failure to care is actually secondary to the need to acquire fuel. If all that mattered was the inability to care, then we would administer hurtful behaviour all of the time. The reality is, the order of priority is that fuel must be obtained and during devaluation this causes hurt to other people and furthermore we are not designed to care about this hurt. By contrast, someone who is manipulating a dislocation back into place knows that pain will be occur but is a necessary consequence of the act. The difference is that this medic or doctor will care that the person is being put in pain and also seek to address that once the dislocation has been addressed.

  1. Do We Act Deliberately?

Everything that is done by the Greater Narcissist is deliberate. The lesser responds as a matter of course. The Mid-Ranger is largely governed by instinct but with a degree of control available to them they can consider what action to take and do so with a sense of purpose but this pales compared to the behaviour of the Greater Narcissist. The actions that are taken are planned. The seduction is orchestrated from careful target selection, the reconnaissance of the subject and the gathering of information is organised and the seduction is methodical and deliberate. The Greater Narcissist does not speak without first considering how effective those words are. Are they to be used to elevate or denigrate? Praise or punishment? Elated or eroded. Like some great architect in the sky the Greater Narcissist, in accordance with his god-like view of him or herself sees other people as chess pieces which are moved in accordance to his or her wishes to cause check mate. The Greater Narcissist purposefully manipulates everybody around him or her. Each person has a role, a position and a purpose. The Greater Narcissist acts with considerable deliberation and indeed this need to position and pose all the players in the narcissist’s world results in the need to control being overwhelming. To be this deliberate in manipulating other people requires a significant degree of control over other people and therefore the Greater Narcissist will exercise his or her skills to achieve that outcome. The Greater Narcissist regards the manipulation of others as a game and one which is enjoyable to engage in.

  1. Can We Control This Behaviour

Not only is the Greater Narcissist an expert in the control of others he exerts considerable control over his own behaviour. His higher functioning allows him considerable latitude to pass the blame onto others and feign an inability to control what he does.

“I don’t know what comes over me sometimes.”

“It as if something else takes control of me.”

“I cannot help it, it just happens.”

“It is like there is some other force that makes the decisions for me.”

All of these comments are lies.  The Greater knows he lies but does not care. He sees the lies as necessary to provoke his prey, to tie them up in knots, to hurt them and to bewilder them. He finds lying entertaining, part of the game he engages in and a tool. The Lesser and Mid-Ranger also lie extensively but those lies are their truth. They do not know they are lying and any evidence that is shown to them is automatically rejected by the application of the narcissist’s twin lines of defence, Denial and Distraction & Deflection. The Lesser and Mid-Range believe their lies, cannot be persuaded otherwise and will always maintain them because to them they represent their truth from their perspective. The Greater knows he or she lies, revels in doing so and does not care that he or she lies because it is deemed necessary.

The Greater Narcissist is able to direct his ignited fury to a level and extent beyond the capability of others of our kind. This is why often cold fury is exhibited by Greater Narcissists as we are able to control the ignited fury so that it does not emerge as heated fury and rarely does it show in the form of physical violence. Such a reliance on such brutality through physical action is regarded as beneath the Greater Narcissist and is an insult to his Machiavellian mind. The Greater Narcissist revels in his higher function allowing him to devise and apply far subtler and rewarding manipulations. He or she is also mindful of the consequences of providing damning physical evidence of the abuse. The only time this formidable control weakens is when the Greater Narcissist is thrown into Chaos Mode as a consequence of a sudden and unseen cessation to his or her primary source of fuel.

5        Can We Stop It?

The Greater Narcissist could stop his or her behaviour owing to the degree of control that he or she is able to exert but whilst there is the capability to stop this behaviour, both benign and malign, the Greater Narcissist will not do so. Firstly, this is because the Greater Narcissist sees no need to. Why stop something that is highly effective and serves a purpose in allowing him or her to shine and function at some an impressive (to him or her) level? Why halt doing something which always delivers? Secondly, the Greater Narcissist will not stop this behaviour because the malevolence which runs through him or her will not allow him to do so. Why give up such a delightful way of manipulating someone? Why relinquish such power over an individual? Why stop flexing those machinations? Why stop doing something that is both necessary but also enjoyable? The lesser does because he is programmed to always respond in such a fashion. Choice has been removed from his thought process. The Mid-Ranger does because he realises it is necessary for his survival but there is not enjoyment or malice driving the behaviour, it is mainly instinct allied with some awareness that the actions needs to be done because that makes the Mid Ranger feel “better”.

The Greater does because he or she can. The Greater does because he or she is driven by the furious malice which burns at the centre of the narcissist. This malice arises because the higher functioning Greater Narcissist is more aware than the others of his brethren just how unfair and brutal the world is. He is attuned to its attempts to depose and dethrone and he knows that engendering and harnessing this malice is entirely necessary for the purpose of protection. It is better to strike first than be struck. It is better to get the retaliation in first. He who dares wins. The Greater is a dangerous individual because not only does he regard what he does as entirely necessary, he is driven not only by the need for fuel but by the malice that is wrapped around his core. This means he goes further, longer, stronger and more often than others of his kind. He is the defiler, the punisher and the destroyer of worlds. Your worlds.

218 thoughts on “The Greater Narcissist – Five Facts

  1. Renarde says:

    So, it had to happen. I think I’ve come across the fingerprints of a Greater. Unconnected with me. Another woman. (BTW, have signposted 5 people to here today and I’ve also contended with a woman who calls Empaths ‘magical’ as in we dont really exist and it’s all a bit victim-e. Jesus).

    There was just something about her post that really bothered me. I think it was the phrase that he uttered to her ‘fishing for compliments’.

    I could be wrong and I havnt yet said what I think. And I wont, I’ll direct her here and to narc detector. I strongly suspect she is a CD.

    HG, do Greaters always pair up with SEs? Which school is most likely to be the IPPS?

    1. HG Tudor says:


      It varies between the different subschool of Greater.

      1. Renarde says:

        Thanks HG. It’s what I suspected.

        Going further, would I be correct in saying that a GC would tend towards a CD?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Not primarily.

          1. Renarde says:

            So what do the GCs go for?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            See Sitting Target.

          3. Renarde says:

            Thanks HG!

  2. Alexissmith2016 says:


    Have you ever had a greater as an ipss? If so how many?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      A couple.

      1. Sweetest Perfection says:

        HG, how do you get fuel from a Greater who is aware of what she is, of what you are, and of what you want? And viceversa? I can understand the benefits of having another Greater as IPPS, but as a secondary?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Through the things they say and do. Narcissists have emotions also.

          Note also that whilst fuel is important, the secondary sources may have been selected for character traits and residual benefits, their fuel not being as important (since being a Greater I would have my fuel needs met more substantially from other appliances elsewhere).

          1. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I don’t know, I guess I imagined the interaction between you two like a competition to see who blinks first after a long round of mutual silent treatment.

          2. K says:

            Exactly, it isn’t always about the fuel. There are other elements to be gained from these liaisons.

          3. nunya biz says:

            I was trying to figure out how the sex works. Like first one to cum loses? Seems like it would be competitive. Ick.

        2. Alexissmith2016 says:

          Great question SP!

          1. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Thanks Alexissmith2016. I got a Greater answer.

          2. Alexissmith2016 says:

            Hahahahah NB!

            Imagine. Could be over in seconds or both ending up sore and dry through trying to over impress the other with their bedroom skills

          3. nunya biz says:

            Alexis, I wonder if there is such a thing as a highly sexual contagion empath man with a bit of a wicked streak. I would like to know.

      2. Alexissmith2016 says:

        Interesting! How did that go?

        1. HG Tudor says:


          1. empath007 says:

            But wouldn’t it just be freeing to not have to wear your mask around someone? To date someone who truly understands you?

            Like attracts like. You’ve posted that in some of your articles and explained that’s why mirroring is so effective. So if that’s the case I can’t understand why you wouldn’t always be seeking out yourself in another person?

            You just need someone to control. And you can’t control a narcissist.

            That’s a shame. In my opinion narc with narc is the best coupling. And there are some good examples of these couples.

          2. Alexissmith2016 says:

            Hahaha okay. I’d love to know more of course, but I shall use my imagination for now.

          3. empath007 says:

            Hello HG. No need to answer if you do not want too… but I am curious about my first question posted on June 17, about whether a narc would find it freeing to date someone else who understood them (meaning, another narc)?

          4. HG Tudor says:

            There are many questions in moderation. I will address them once I have time to do so.

      3. Narc noob says:

        That’s very interesting, I hadn’t seen that comment before.

        Are there areas of work, professions that GN wouldn’t venture into? Ie is it possible that a GN might work for the police department but not in a position that receives a lot of publicity?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Yes, in a high position.

          1. Narc noob says:

            Thanks for answering my question regarding the GEN in a high position in the police department.

            Do you think a GEN in this position would help a family member who is a victim UMRN, or would that be beneath them? Didn’t think so given it’s family but thought I would check. Perhaps it depends… TIA 👍

          2. HG Tudor says:

            If there was a gain to be had and it did not cause the GEN an excessive amount of time and resource, then yes.

      4. Narc noob says:

        In your FAQ section of the blog you state that you never have had a N as an IPPS and yet here (above) you say the opposite?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          No I do not.

          I invite you to go to Specsavers and then re-read AS2016’s question. Granted, you might mis-read it, but you will see I do not say the opposite.

          1. Narc noob says:

            Specsavers? Hmm. Seems I may just need to do that! Thanks for your polite redirection. 😆👍

          2. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome.

  3. BurntKrispyKeen says:

    It still amazes me how many narcissists exist amongst us. I was watching CNN for a bit last night when it was mentioned that a former Bush advisor stated that professionals have labeled President Trump as a “10-out-of-10 narcissist.”

    Not sure exactly what that means, but it sounds severe! 😳 Apparantly, this former Bush advisor also stated that Chinese president Xi Jinping is believed to be a sociopath. The good news is… people are talking more about narcissism than ever before… though one host mentioned that he wondered if this sort of labeling doesn’t somehow victimize these public officials? His concern was basically… by making a sideline diagnosis, will people victimize these officials when their concerning behaviors can speak, rather loudly, without a label? Personally, I think the labels help us to know what we are dealing with… because later in another segment, a fellow said that when Trump was a child, his father would often tell the younger Trump, “You’re a killer; you are a king!”

    How about THAT for helping to create a narcissist?!

    1. FYC says:

      Hi BKK, Psychologists have analysed virtually every president and world leader prior to Trump (many are assumed NPD without a formal disgnosis as they would need to diagnose in person). It was not until Trump that NPD was used as a slur to further political objectives. Regardless of party affiliation, I believe most people see Trump as a narcissist (if they know what that is). The machine behind the media that offers up such strategies stooped to an all time low IMO, as this approach amounts to base mudslinging. They could have been far more effective using a different approach. That said, the agencies that counsel both politicians and mega media group holders are also filled with many highly effective narcissists who are experienced in manipulating public opinion. Note, they did not expose or slur either Clinton during the campaign or thereafter, as they are in accord with their clients agenda. If you are curious, I am registered independent as both parties have gone off the rails. Hopefully the pendulum will swing back to some normalcy (lol not likely).

      1. BurntKrispyKeen says:

        Ha! I agree that we will be waiting quite a length of time for that swing, FYC. I am running into more and more independents for exactly the reason you state. People are tired of politics as usual. I have been registered to the same party since legal age, though I often vote both sides… trying to choose the lesser of the two evils, if you will. ⚖ I actually voted today, on an absentee ballot since I’ll be working out of town during our primary next week. Though I am sickened by so much, I remain a big believer in exercising our right to vote. ❤ 🇺🇸

        I know that I have already said so, but I am amazed at how many politicians are narcissists. (Though it does make sense on so many levels.) Considering certain human traits that have evolved over the years… well, it just makes me question narcissism in a different way. 🤔 But I won’t get that whole debate started!

        My thoughts on Trump vary, as sometimes I’ll find my self listening to his words and thinking, “Yeah – that’s right – you tell ’em!” Then other times, I’m cringing in my seat with my jaw on my chest, thinking, “Please don’t judge us, entire world. 🌍 I am sooo sorry! Please know that most Americans aren’t like this.”

        But what do I know? While I’ve never missed a presidential election, I’ve only voted for the actual POTUS once. Apparently, I’m really good at picking losers.

        I guess that’s partly how I landed here… I easily fall for the wrong guy. 🤦‍♀️ But thank you again, FYC, for your insightful post.

        (I just had to add that I was trying to post this during my son’s guitar lesson, but I lost my original comment. My son wants to go back inside to buy some more picks, so I told him to wait a minute while I finished typing. I have been sitting in the truck, trying to resubmit based on memory, which is never a good thing at my age. I asked my son to hold on for a second. Peering over my shoulder, he said, “Okay Mama, I’ll wait while you post about your spleen.”
        He has noticed that before, so I think the kid truly believes that I am sick with a malfunctioning organ.)

        1. FYC says:

          BKK you crack me up! Poor guy thinks you spleen is in unwell🤣 I love the multitasking you manage!

          I do wish we could go back to some level of sanity and normalcy! The latest pressing bill proposal wants to teach gender identification to kindergarteners and masturbation techniques to middle schoolers. WTF? Imagine the pedophile that would be attracted to teach that to kids.😳 Totally off the rails for quite some time.

          I’m thinking of moving to a remote island! Then again, I guess Amazon Prime will deliver to the moon in 2024😜

          BKK, thank you for always brightening my day, I hope you have an excellent one!

          1. BurntKrispyKeen says:

            FYC, perhaps we could have neighboring huts on this island? 🏝🙂 I think Narc Angel might know a thing or two about yurts, as I believe she once encouraged me to get a yurt for my backyard, including suggestions on its use. That was when I revealed that I have never seen a true porno flick. (Not that I haven’t seen plenty of stuff that could be considered a close second. 😳) Now, her friendly advice WAS during my very needy time of when just about every image HG posted seemed to be a phallic symbol of sorts. My wandering mind had more to do with my “lack-of” condition, but have you ever studied closey those two middle fingers on the Provocation guy? Whew! And what was it with HG’s obsession with WWII gas masks that had hoses long enough to reach a neighboring country?) So even though my mind can quickly go to the gutter, I do think we, as a society, have taken our involvement in what children “need” a bit too far.

            Even though I’ve been registered to the liberal party since my teenage years, I’m actually pretty conservative… on certain matters. 😉 (Or maybe I’m just politically bipolar. 🐘😑🐴 ❓) I have to say, FYC, that I missed hearing about this bill proposal… so more homework for me! 📚 OH MY … I had no idea!
            I am all about proper education. I truly believe to talk about uncomfortable subjects is the best way to shed light and bring about resolution, but I agree with you … this proposal is taking it to a level that will likely bring about a TON of issues!
            My catholic father thought masterbation was disgusting. (My dad was faithful to my mother throughout their marriage. I am not catholic. 😔) His beliefs might explain one particular time when, after my parents’ divorce, he and I attended a church service where my sister was singing in a gospel group. During their recesses, Dad would always be the last to find his seat because he was too busy working the room. My sister said that she was so embarrassed because even while up on stage, trying to sing religious songs, she could tell that Dad was methodically moving about the congregation looking for his next lay. I guess some things really are best done with a partner.

            Perhaps there have been some increase in reported ER visits of this single-handed act (or two 🤲 😏) having gone terribly wrong, but I really don’t understand why this educational “need” could be so urgent? I’m with you, FYC … bring back the good ole days!
            I can’t picture the Beaver or little Timmy having to sit through such a course, nervously swinging their high-top Chuck Taylors, as they wonder if touching toads really can give them warts. 🐸 I can just hear the pearl-clad June now, yelling upstairs as she stands in her ruffled apron, “Beav – wash your hands first.”

            What has this world come to?!

          2. NarcAngel says:

            Teaching kids masturbation techniques in school? WTF? indeed. In our day, that was left to the Church. Can we not count on one thing to stay the same? I mean it worked for us right? Who knew some kids were sitting around jerking off their nose or thinking their ‘bean’ is their belly button and flicking that. Poor things.

            Can you imagine your kid coming home with a poor grade in that subject and having to go discuss it in a Parent/Teacher interview? Ba hahaha

            Good thing I don’t have kids in school. Good for the Teacher I mean.

          3. BurntKrispyKeen says:

            😂😂😂 Oh, Narc Angel… you never disappoint me. I ❤ You.

          4. FYC says:

            NarcAngel, Indeed! Utterly perfect and hilarious response as always.🤣😂

            Perhaps you could cross the border, take asylum and run for office. We could use an intelligent leader with a great sense of humor. I am certain you would quite effectively put the nut jobs in their place, versus running the asylum as they do now.

          5. FYC says:

            Hi BKK, I did see an ad for glamping in British Columbia with luxury yurts and tents. So I guess you can do a lot with a yurt. Must have indoor plumbing though! 🚽🚿

            Your Rorschach-like interpretation of art and gas masks leads me to believe you may need some well appointed and willing company nearby!🕺(lol)

          6. NarcAngel says:

            Well that’s that. School will never be taught in Yurts due to privacy issues. It’s impossible to go off in the corner to masturbate.

          7. Sweetest Perfection says:

            HAHAHA! I’m dead.

          8. BurntKrispyKeen says:

            FYC… Ha! 😂 And your assessment is correct. 😔 I could use a little company, though I’ve learned to settle down my ST along with my ET. 🕺 I have been asked out, but dammit… none of them impress me. I wonder if SM has an older brother? An uncle?

            Those yurts are pretty cool. Have you ever seen them on HGTV? They can be quite accommodating though I guess the lack of corners can be an issue. 🤔

            I really hope that bill doesn’t pass. I was already upset about having to bring in four boxes of Kleenex every year along with a long list of school supplies. If they start asking for socks, I’m gonna make sure I get my ass to the next P.T.A. meeting!

            FYC and NA, you both crack me up. 🧡🙂

          9. FYC says:

            Lol, BKK, you are back in good humor!🤣 Given your other comments, I don’t think HG will be making introductions anytime soon! hehehe Maybe take up a sport you enjoy🏌️‍♀️ to meet some new guys 🤸‍♀️(that pose oughta work! lol) or a meet-up on a topic you are interested in🔬?

            I did not see the yurts on HGTV, but what I have seen made me laugh at NA’s corner joke as did your sock comment.🧦😝 Imagine the new list of ‘school supplies’ and ‘toys’! 😳 Who knew a cranky little comment on the state of politics could lead to so many laughs! Thank you both!😘

          10. BurntKrispyKeen says:

            Ha! 😃 You’re right, FYC, but I would like to see the look on HG’s face if SM and I happened to glide into the powder room at the same time. 😲
            But I know that I’d have to be quick to catch any “revealing” looks from Mr. Cool-n-Calm if I started to engage in risky conversation with his lady. My narcissist had tiny microexpressions that gave himself away, but I had to look carefully because whatever words that quickly followed would usually be a complete opposite of his true reveal. (I loved seeing those expressions though… because they told me so much more than his words ever would.)
            Actually, I wouldn’t say anything to SM that would disrupt this dynamic. 🤐😶 I know those type of revelations usually come back to bite the messenger… and I’ve been bitten enough! So I’d be on my best double-blind-date behavior. (Will it improve my odds for a Norwegian introduction if I pinky swear that all secrets are safe with me? 🤙🤝)
            Besides, I wouldn’t want to risk getting kicked under the table by a muscular football leg, especially if HG wears those pointy European dress shoes to dinner. 👞
            Actually, if the bro/uncle is a tall, blue-eyed blonde AND is a strapping sweetheart of a guy, I’m thinking that I’d be so captivated that I wouldn’t give a rat’s ass what was going on with the other couple across the table. I would sooo mind my own business! (Wait, I’d still glance their way just to make sure HG didn’t leave me stranded in a foreign country… with the check. 🧾💸 🚖)

            Truthfully, I wouldn’t warn her. I promise… because from a scientific standpoint, I really do want to see where this goes, without interference. From a female standpoint, I’m hoping for the best. 💞 I promise that I know it’s HG’s job to tell her, if and when he decides. I have joked in the past that I thought I might be related to HG, so he should know that I’m pretty loyal to my peeps… thought I’d add that just in case he changes his mind on a fix-up.

            I joke about the whole family thing, but I wonder if there are folks on here who are distantly related yet have no clue? 👭 This site makes me realize just how small the world is… so I would be open to traveling far if a blind date had potential. Just sayin’ again. But I hear blind dates rarely work. Well, I know because I recently tried to fix up two of my clients. I thought that I was cupid 💘 … until it went horribly wrong. 😞

            So I might have to stay put and try a few of your suggestions instead, FYC. I’m not on social media (other than what my friends posts of me) so I guess I’ve not really given myself a lot of opportunity. I need to make more effort to put myself out there in that way… though I do go out with the gang as much as possible. So who knows what might present itself during a night out? If it is possible, FYC, to find one who can pull off the moves you suggested, I’m going to start taking my Bi-Flex and Ibuprofen before all outings going forward!

            I have been pretty beaten down by my encounter with the narcissist, and I can’t seem to be impressed with what’s come my way thus far, so I have no idea how long this fog is supposed to last… before one is truly ready to move on? If you don’t mind my asking, FYC, where are you at in the “moving on to another relationship” stage?

  4. Renarde says:

    I can’t see where to reply but I just wanted to pipe in my 2p about Thatcher. I had assumed she was a middle ranger just on numbers but of course it makes far more sense that she is a Greater. I’m guessing a Cerebral?

    It also brings worrisome thoughts. Of course as PM, she would have known EXACTLY what Jimmy Savile was up to but somehow her being a Greater makes it worse. I’m still wrapping my head around that one.

    HG, Savile was obviously a narc but what school?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Yes he was.

      1. alexissmith2016 says:

        Jimmy Carr not the other JC

    2. alexissmith2016 says:

      Great observations Renarde! Yes that is worrying given that she was a greater that she would have known exactly what JS was.

      ooh, I’d never given him much thought re which school. I’m going to take a punt on Greater! Based on his behavior and interviews I’ve seen, although I haven’t particularly studied him. I find it much harder to gauge the school of celebrities because I need first hand interaction with an N to pick up on the subtleties of their actions.

      Plus I don’t tend to watch very much TV. 8/10 cats! and I find JC incredibly sexy, he has amazing presence! must be a greater!

      As HG is clearly teasing with this one again, where would you place JS?

      1. Renarde says:

        Thanks Alex.

        You’re obviously UK like me, so you will understand about Yewtree, JS’s access to Broadmoor, St James’s Palace, Hospitals etc

        How on earth did he get away with it AND got knighted to boot. Was never exposed in life although I learned years before he died. Everyone knew what he was at that time but no-one spoke out and the ones that did, usually the families of the survivours were hushed up. Just like Cyril Smith.

        And that investigation, the report has still not been published and everything has gone quiet. Again!

        1. alexissmith2016 says:

          Yes, UK too Renarde.

          I’m very aware of the case. It was shocking, truly shocking. But things like this still go on. Maybe not on this scale, but people know and say nothing – it sickens me. There is no way I could have such knowledge and not act on it.

          Which school do you think he is?

          And you only need to watch the film ‘Three girls’ to see that even when authorities know, they too become involved in covering it up.

          1. Renarde says:

            Alex – Oh, I just don’t know. It’s because I think with Savile is that he is not a nice ‘fit’ into any category and thereby it becomes a process of elimination rather than positive affirmation. That bothers me because we I think can say, not a middle.

            So lesser then? But with all his contacts, his knowledge, who he was blackmailing (and he was). To keep up that facade for hours in public. To not let the general (or rather those that were broadcasted) public see for one minute what was underneath until the Theroux Doc in 2002? After all those years?

            Gah! His Grace will know if he’s in the mood to tell us humble minions?

            But either way on this and in a stunning departure, whatever he is, he must be an Elite.

          2. alexissmith2016 says:

            You’ve really got me thinking about this one Renarde.

            I agree, I don’t think he fits being a mid. and definitely not a nice fit into any category at all. The fact he lived with his mother, is quite contradictory of where I’d like to place him.

            Louis Theroux has said he feels confused as to why he liked JS. Something all of us experience and not relevant to any particular school.

            Having had a quick refresh of the fuel matrix articles, I’m going to stick with a greater. but it’s messing things up in my head that he lived with his mum.

            Lessers/ LMN
            Without going into the finer detail, are the most likely of all the schools to live with a family member.

            If he was a lesser, his personality would fit a little more with the ULN. ‘He is intolerant, driven and bullying but this achieves him success and he may quite well off. He will be disliked by those who hold positions in society, since he lacks the finesse and good manners associated with education and good breeding but his money remains good for many occasions and therefore he will be tolerated’.

            The LGN has similarities with the ULN in that they are aggressive, arrogant and swaggering. The LGN however is more calculating, far more grandiose and charismatic but is only able to maintain this on a local scale.

            ‘The MGN is on stage, up front and there for all to see. The rock stars of the world, famous television presenters, politicians and demagogues form those who are MGNs’.

            ‘He is grandiose when required but also revels in chicanery, shadowy deals and behind the scenes manipulation. Whilst he admittedly enjoys mass adoration he does not rely on it to the same extent as the MGN does. He moves in powerful circles, can rely on powerful contacts and connections should he so choose and is fearless in his behaviours. He cannot ever be beaten, he must always win and the end justifies the means more to him than anybody else. He is malicious with those who cross him and will readily destroy them, but he is adept at recognising the worth of individuals to his Grand Designs and therefore is not capricious in the application of his formidable destructive powers. Vastly charming but with an edge which has people wary and indeed downright terrified of saying the wrong thing or committing an erroneous act. He is able to convert people to his way of thinking and will do so through the application of charm or threat – he is content to apply one or the other or both – so long as he achieves what he wants’.

            Relevant to all Greaters but copied from UGN
            However, ‘The primary source is never a family member but instead is an IPPS. I believe he lived with his mother’.

            All that said, I would have placed MJ as a mid, because he appeared to play the victim role. But HG said he didn’t play the victim and it was others who portrayed him that way and that he was a greater. So what do I know? lol

            HG, obviously we’d like the answer, but I’ve very much learned to accept that you either will or won’t provide answers.

            What would be pretty fun though, is if you did a poll or something for different celebrities and we have to guess what they are, which school of empath or narc.

          3. HG,
            I’ve been watching a bit of Sheradin Smith. More to watch.
            Would she be a magnet/geyser? or an N

          4. alexissmith2016 says:

            I should have known better than to give my secrets away. I might just sit here quietly and kick myself to death.

          5. alexissmith2016 says:

            Whilst simultaneously grateful for reminding me of the power you and others have x

          6. alexissmith2016 says:

            Finished watching the rest of the SS documentary and I’m pretty sure that she’s one of us x

          7. alexissmith2016 says:

            Oh you are a bad man HG! you know you’ve left out one vital comment. grrrr god damn it!

            Still, an N is an N is an N! But I still love you x

  5. FYC says:

    HG, How much does the greater/elite care about external perception/ reputation? You have said before to love you or hate you but never ignore you. Does this apply to individuals only? Does this also apply to specific groups or the general public? Any insight would be very much appreciated.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Mid Range and Greater operating facades. Mid Range are more concerned about being seen as ‘decent’. Greaters are more concerned (generally) with being recognised in some form, they are less concerned about vilification (so long as they are getting what they want) because from their lofty positions they are amused by people objecting to what they do. The Greater achieves what they want and find the objections entertaining as they amount to fuel – take for example Margaret Thatcher – so long as her policies were implemented, her laws enacted and she was elected, the fact that a certain section of society hated her did not trouble her in the slightest – it was validation and in her mind it was to be expected from those who did not understand the bigger picture or those were the views of the ‘little people’. A Mid Ranger prefers to be liked by everybody because they truly believe they are good, decent, honest and even empathic and anybody who does not accord with that is an awful person.

      1. FYC says:

        Thank you very much for this insight. If largely successful (as in your MT example), would a greater embrace a negative public perception or simply ignore it (and possibly be entertained by it if fuel-loaded)? Need to know this for something I am working on.

        On a personal note, before finding KTN, I was completely ignorant of so many things regarding narcissism. I was unaware of MRNs because I foolishly did not reconcile the seemingly ‘good’ image with the arrogant, self-serving behavior. I knew something was very wrong, but had no framework to work from to label or understand it. Thanks to you, I see them exactly for what they are now. It is both sad and frustrating, but the insight you deliver is priceless and I am so very grateful.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          It would depend on the circumstances. Those in politics for example would tend to ignore it or denigrate their detractors as evidencing how the Greater is right because of the response of the degenerate, ill-informed objectors. A Greater in entertainment is likely to embrace it, playing up to the villain role and thriving on being hated and despised.

          1. FYC says:

            HG, I’m sorry, I should have been more specific. My inquiry was regarding high profile, public facing, corporate executives, but I think your responses gave exactly the insight I needed anyway. Thank you very much!

          2. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome FYC.

          3. Renarde says:

            Hmm, like Craig Revel Horwood for example?

            No one can deny that the guy knows his onions. He sees things that others miss all the time. Horwood does not seem to care about how he is perceived and he certainly got right up Brendan Coles’ nose.

      2. alexissmith2016 says:

        on that basis HG, would that mean that your typical ‘bully boss’, whom everyone knows is a bully is more likely to be a greater? because they don’t care about coming across as decent.

        Not the ‘bully’ lessers of the world. But those who are intelligent, have made it to middle management in the corporate world. I’d had them down as mids. Could they be greaters?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          They might be a LGN but it is not more likely. They may well be UL (gives the appearance of intelligence but is not, more ‘knowing’ than ‘knows’ or UMR (who is intelligent but is so haughty they operate a selective façade – i.e. it is shown to those who deserve it and not to those who do not deserve it).

          1. alexissmith2016 says:

            Ah that is incredibly helpful, thank you HG. these people definitely have genuine intelligence. Much as I’d like to say that they don’t.

            Yes you’re right, they are selective in that they are both subservient but complete micro managers and bully those beneath them. Both females and both have to talk in a very fake calm voice, almost as though they have to purposely quell their fury which bubbles continuously under the surface..

          2. HG Tudor says:

            You are most welcome.

      3. Dearest HG: What type of Narcissist is Madonna?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          A female one.

  6. E. B. says:

    Was the late Margaret Thatcher a Greater?

    1. HG Tudor says:


      1. E. B. says:

        Thank you.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are welcome.

      2. alexissmith2016 says:

        Is Jeremy Kyle a mid?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          He’s a twat.

          Oh and a Mid-Ranger to boot.

          1. alexissmith2016 says:

            hahahahaahah oh my goodness that made me laugh

  7. Sweetest Perfection says:

    Dear and revered HG: I am asking this here as you are the Great(est) but it doesn’t refer to your cadre as my narc is quite pathetic to belong to that category. I have a sense he did a smear campaign against me among our common colleagues. I honestly don’t give much about any of them because they all seem to buy all the BS he posts on social media about being super preoccupied with the state or the world at large, and they are pretentious flying monkeys that kiss his butt. I noticed though that they have stopped inviting me and my husband to social events and the other day I ran into two female colleagues and they had a very weird attitude, although they were cordial. I of course have read Smeared. But my question is this: is it possible to suffer a smear campaign if you are just an IPSS/DLS whom he put on the shelf, after having escaped and gone NC? And also: if that is the case, would he risk his façade, knowing I could prove him wrong in a matter of seconds with all the relevant graphic data I possess? I am asking because I think I read that usually the recipient of the smear is the primary source, rarely an IPSS. Thanks in advance!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. Yes.
      2. Yes because it is control in the moment which matters, not what may or may not happen thereafter. Thus he needs control in that moment, so his narcissism causes him to smear you. He is not contemplating any response from you to the smear in terms of dispelling it because
      a. To do so would delay his response and lead to a loss of control in the moment ;
      b. He lacks the ability to do so; and
      c. If you did try to dispel the smear later, it may not matter to him or if it does then his narcissism will cause him to deal with it THEN at that later stage.

      Control in the NOW is what matters.

      1. Abe Moline says:

        “Control in the NOW is what matters.”

        Very interesting… This is clearly a big weakness. A really intelligent and patient person (empath or not), provided with enough time and will to plan ahead, could easily take advantage of this. Well, not sure if it’s worth all that trouble, but still…

        1. K says:

          Abe Moline
          Correct. You could use their own narcissism against them if you plan it right. I imagine that is what a higher functioning/Greater narcissist would do.

    2. Sweetest Perfection says:

      Thank you so much, HG. Well, he’s not controlling shit. He can keep his pathetic friends. I’m out.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        You are welcome.

    3. E. B. says:

      Hi SweetestPerfection,
      Not only PSs, but also SSs and TSs can be on the receiving end of a smear campaign. I have also been smeared by people I did not know they existed. They had heard about me from others and decided I was their enemy.
      Victim playing has its advantages. They become the centre of attention and get fuel on a regular basis. Not only narcissists but also other character disordered individuals enjoy the drama. They are aware something is not quite right with them. They put their energy onto the chosen scapegoat, away from themselves. They avoid self-reflection and introspection. I have heard ‘honest and decent’ people say, “When I see [scapegoat name], I forget all my problems and feel great.”

      1. Sweetest Perfection says:

        E.B., thanks, I was under the impression the narc would try to keep his secondary sources available. Which of course doesn’t stop him from talking shit behind their backs anyway. So let’s go over the list of friends: 1) an overweight nerd who has always hated me and has a platonic crush on the narc but allows her best friend -aka the other IPSS- receive all the attention; 2) aforementioned IPSS who, poor thing, is too young to realize what he does or what he is and who doesn’t know that he has a 3) third IPSS who goes on and off depending on the need for fuel or the narc, around 4 years now following this pattern in my experience 4) sad guys with the personality and charisma of a wet sock and who think they are too witty and spend their lifetime theorizing about how to save the world, on Facebook 5) old dudes that spend the summer at the same beach location; he loves this group of Cocoon friends because that way he can stand out as the youngest and sexiest. Should I be worried about these people thinking weird things about me? Hell no. Btw, I just noticed I have initiated my own smear campaign, hell yeah, I’m loving it!

        1. E. B. says:

          Exactly, they sound pathetic you but not dangerous. You do not need them. I would ignore all of them. It would be different if the smear campaign affected some important areas of your life and/or if you and your family were in physical danger.

  8. Nicole says:

    I’m still baffled why my mid-range didn’t enjoy sex with me. In the beginning he did but that was part of the ploy. But then we had 3 kids together and he would prefer porn, and sometimes transsexual webcam sites over the actual thing. I get that they don’t want true intimacy, is that why? Because porn offered the end game minus the intimacy?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Please see Sex and the Narcissist.

  9. WiserNow says:

    So HG, now that you and the Shieldmaiden have set up home together, how would you say that ‘furious malice which burns at the centre of the narcissist’ is going for you? Are you willing to stop it? Do you want to?

    As a Greater narcissist, you have a better ability to stop the behaviours, so it’s particularly interesting to think of how that’s happening for you personally in your current relationship with SM. Now that you’re living together, it sounds like you have ‘bound’ her to you more closely. Are you still in the golden period, or are you already starting to devalue her? Or do you want to at least try to stop the malevolence running through you?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. It will remain.
      2. The difference is, where will it be directed.

      1. Claire says:

        I have some great ideas on where you can direct it. Just imagine.

      2. Twilight says:


        “The difference is, where will it be directed.”

        Your awareness, control and ability to choose where to focus your malice can be beneficial not only for the two of you, yet the many.


        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you Twilight.

      3. WiserNow says:

        Thanks for your reply HG. As usual, your economy of words results in your answers being both definitive and intriguing at the same time.

        It’s probably partly due to you having an endless amount of comments to moderate, however, your deliberate and short answers also show how narcissists use words. You don’t feel the need to explain yourself in order to better communicate your thoughts, as empaths generally do. You use words to control. You say just the right things to lead the listener to fill in the blanks themselves and to think what you want them to think.

        Still, your words “it will remain” leave no doubt (in my mind) that the malevolence and malice burning inside you will not go away. It’s there to stay and you’re not going to miraculously stop being a narcissist.

        So the difference is, as you say, where will it be directed. Yes, where will that be? It could be anywhere at any point in time. I’m not sure that narcissists, even Greaters, have enough self-control to consistently direct the malevolence exactly where they initially say they want to direct it or where they promise or commit to direct it.

        The restlessness or wounding that you’re prone to feel is uncontrollable. It can come from any source at any time, so being able to control the fury and direct the malevolence or malice to only those places you want it to go would take a great deal of sustained self-control. I don’t think that’s possible.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          My answer was succinct, accurate and complete. You are correct that being direct is a necessity – both in terms of saving time and ensuring the message is understood.

          1. WiserNow says:

            Thank you again for your answer HG. I actually appreciate your directness and honesty, even though it may not sound like it. I guess I’ve strayed into solid logical thinking and I’m analysing your words in order to better understand you.

            I’m sorry to take this hard-ball approach without first congratulating you and the Shieldmaiden on your latest news. Congratulations on setting up house together. Best wishes to you and I hope everything is going well between you both.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome. It was interesting to read your observations about ‘how a narcissist writes’. I do agree with you that empaths are more expansive in their comments/words/speech and also have a tendency to fill in the blanks (that truth seeker trait) although they do not always get the correct answer owing to the presence of emotional thinking. Thank you for your kind wishes.

          3. WiserNow says:

            You’re welcome HG. I’m very interested in how your relationship with SM is unfolding and I really do hope you can find a way to live together happily without resorting to manipulation and deceit and without the need to devalue her. It interests me to see how or if you will change any of your behaviours.

            Also, the more I try to think logically and to analyse what you are saying, I can see that my ‘logical thinking’ is also tinged with ’emotional thinking’. I believe you in the way that I interpret your words, which may not be in the same way that you intend them. It’s healthy to keep an open mind and to try and avoid any ‘catastrophic’ thinking when reading about your relationship. That’s difficult to do though, having just read about the ‘furious malice that burns’ at your core.

            In any case, please feel free to continue teaching us and I will keep watching and learning 🙂

      4. Bubbles says:

        Dear Mr Tudor,
        Are you cohabitating with Shieldmaiden ?
        For those of us not on Instagram, is this not blog worthy news ?
        Thank you
        Luv Bubbles xx 😘

        1. HG Tudor says:

          There will be more information when I have opportunity to write about it.

          1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dear Mr Tudor,
            That would be simply marvellous, as I’m sure everyone here would be most fascinated and extremely interested (it’s only just now that I found out from WiserNow’s comment
            above…thankyou WiserNow)
            Very much looking forward to it and the bombardment of questions … haha… many thanks Mr Tudor
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          2. WiserNow says:

            You’re welcome Bubbles. There was a recent tweet from HG about his “setting up home together” with SM and then I saw an instagram post with a photo of a lavish dinner they had to celebrate the occasion.

            Now that you mention the bombardment of questions that HG will probably get, I can see how cynical my comments sound regarding HG and SM moving in together! Lol! 😂😂😂 I didn’t mean to be so negative about it all.

            I think that HG may have to prepare for a posse of saviour empaths swooping in to shield the Shieldmaiden now they are cohabiting! 😉

          3. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dear WiserNow,
            Thanks gorgeous for replying
            It was lovely of you to mention it (we need an informant to keep us updated on his Instagram … haha)
            I almost gagged on my red wine when I read it ….. 🍷…haha
            But then again ….. he’s a narcissist …. there’s nothing that comes as a surprise anymore and always expect the unexpected …. 😂
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          4. WiserNow says:

            You’re welcome Bubbles, and thank you for your comment too. You always have an entertaining, charming and graceful approach 😘

            I was surprised too, when I saw that HG and SM had set up house together😳 And then right after learning that, I happened to click on this post about the Greater narcissist😕 That made me worried about what SM was getting herself into 😱

            You’re right though, you can never be sure of what to expect with a narcissist. Then again, there’s no such thing as a free lunch (or a free lavish dinner during a golden period with HG…😉😉)

          5. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dear Mr Tudor,
            Just out of curiosity ….

            1) You mentioned you “knew” shieldmaiden for 18 months before dating …correct?
            2) how many months have you been “dating” as a “couple” prior to moving in together ….?
            3) and how long have you been currently living together ?

            Many thanks
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

        2. K says:

          Dearest Bubbles,
          Join the instagram party! Warning: it may take many, many tries to acquire a username.

          Luv K xoxo

          1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dearest K,
            Thank you my lovely
            This blog is actually really out of my comfort zone as it is
            It’s a bit like a narc…… one is way more than I can handle
            I very much appreciate your suggestion
            💋 Mwah K
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          2. K says:

            My pleasure, Dear Bubbles!

      5. Hope says:

        Wouldn’t it be grand if it was used to fight climate change? If your fury fueled progression that changes the future of the world forever?

    2. Bubbles 🍾 says:

      Dear WiserNow,
      You’re so kind … thank you lovely one 😊
      I really enjoyed reading your comments to Mr Tudor, good points WiserNow
      With regards to the newly defacto couple, I’m visualising what might happen when Mr Tudor is sitting his “naughty “games of thrones” blog recliner chair ” and shieldmaiden sneaks up behind him and whispers in his ear …. “whatcha doing honey”? 😱
      Luv Bubbles xx 😘

      1. WiserNow says:

        Thank you Bubbles. I enjoy your comments too, and your wonderful sense of humour. Yes, I wonder what HG will say if that happens and SM wants to know who he’s communicating with when he’s spending hours replying to comments and updating the blog?!? haha 😂😂
        He might answer… “..oh, nothing you need to worry about dear, I’m just updating my vast fuel matrix. You should see the size of this thing!” 😉😜😁

        1. Twilight says:


          “He might answer… “..oh, nothing you need to worry about dear, I’m just updating my vast fuel matrix. You should see the size of this thing!” 😉😜😁”

          I spit my coffee out reading that.

          1. WiserNow says:

            haha Twilight, we can only imagine what HG and SM say to each other in private when they’re together 🙂

        2. Bubbles 🍾 says:

          Dear WiserNow,
          I posted a reply but my screen went black and I don’t think it went thru ..your comment was 🤣
          I’m sure his home office is under lock n key (more like a combination lock) and probably has security cameras everywhere 😂
          Personally, I can’t get my head around it …. so many mental imageries 🤣
          We shall just have to wait n find out in due course, I guess
          Luv Bubbles xx 😘
          (Reminder to self…. must stop drinking coffee or wine when reading hilarious comments 🤣)

          1. WiserNow says:

            Thank you Bubbles 😘 Since HG is a Greater, I think his home office is very much under control. When you mentioned security cameras, I imagined laser lines criss-crossed in the entry hall, like the scene in Mission Impossible with Tom Cruise 😉
            Yes, it will be very interesting to see how HG and SM’s ‘romance’ develops. I’m going to watch and learn 😶😬

  10. FYC says:

    And the 6th rule for the Ultra: Never underestimate the power of a new dynamic!

    In reference to your IG post: Congrats to you and SM as you celebrate “setting up home together”!🥂 I wish you both the best!

    1. FYC says:

      Perhaps this slightly altered DM lyric can be a theme song for your new dynamic, HG:

      “Clean, the cleanest I’ve been
      An end to disappointment and fears
      in the in-between years
      And the troubles I’ve seen
      Now that I’m clean,
      you know what I mean
      I’ve broken my fall,
      put an end to it all
      I’ve changed my routine now I’m clean”

      Long may the new dynamic reign.

      1. Sweetest Perfection says:

        FYC, I like your style. I asked HG whether SM was also a DM fan, he never answered. I think it is vital information!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          That’s because I will be writing about the SM in due course, as I have explained previously.

        2. FYC says:

          Thanks Sweetest P, I thought their Clean “new routine” lyric fit. 😊 DM was very popular so unless the SM does not like alt/rock/pop I would guess she does. But if we are making requests, I’ll add: Which of their songs is their favorite?

  11. Claire says:

    Who is one example of a well known female greater?

    1. lisk says:

      Hillary Clinton? (She comes to mind first, anyway.)

      1. Twilight says:

        I don’t believe she is a Greater. UMR possibly

    2. evilmuskhat says:

      Hillary Clinton.

      1. Claire says:

        Oh no—Bill is self aware.

      2. Claire says:

        Is your picture Ted Bundy?! Awesome!

      3. mommypino says:

        Hillary Clinton is a Mid-Ranger. Bill Clinton is the Greater.

      4. mommypino says:

        Amanda Snapchat QUeen on December 16, 2018 at 00:28
        you said Hillary Clinton and her husband Bill Clinton were both Narcs. Why has their relationship been long lived?
        Are both greaters? Maybe Bill clinton is more a Somantic narc?

        HG Tudor on December 17, 2018 at 23:19
        It has survived because notwithstanding it has had its ups and downs their combined efforts serve a purpose for them both. They are not both Greaters.

        mommypino on December 18, 2018 at 06:53
        Bill Clinton has to be the one who is a Greater. Hillary is a mid-range I bet. Bill Clinton is the one with the amazing charm and magnetism. While Hillary has more like a martyr type facade. Although I thought that when Bill Clinton was president, the country was not as divisive as it has been under Obama and now under Trump. Clinton actually had the real charisma to work out the major differences between two parties. I coukd be wrong but that is how I remember it.

        HG Tudor on December 18, 2018 at 12:56
        Gold star for you.

        1. amanda SNapchat says:

          THAT’S ME!!! Always asking interesting, fascinating questions 😉
          Thanks mommypino for the context also 🙂
          How do you find old comments like that?

          1. mommypino says:

            I saw K teaching Claire in a different thread how she finds old articles. She types narcsite and whatever keywords in her browser search bar. I used the google search bar. I typed narcsite Hillary Clinton Mid-Ranger. Although a bunch of articles came up, I kinda remembered which article it was. 😊

        2. E&L says:

          MP, you are an excellent student! HG forgot to call you “Grasshopper” (Karate Kid). Great job!!!!

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Ha ha, young Padawan will do instead!

        3. Claire says:

          I actually voted for Billy. He was my first voting experience. I was 18 and didn’t know better—to vote for the other party. I don’t think politics are on HG’s rules, although that’s all I will say!

          1. mommypino says:

            The first president of the US that I have ever voted for was Obama. Mc Cain was too vanilla and weak I thought.

          2. Claire says:

            Obama would be a delight at dinner. He’s charming and smart. McCain wasn’t brilliant in the same way but I loved his “F you” attitude directed at Trump.

          3. mommypino says:

            I wouldn’t want to eat with both. Obama has a lot of charm but I didn’t like the way he ran his presidency. I think that McCain was a weasel.

          4. Claire says:

            If Obama didn’t have those geeky ears I could almost be swayed into bed with him simply due the charm. (And with alcohol)

          5. NarcAngel says:

            Don’t let those geeky ears hold you back – they can be used to your advantage. In fact – perhaps thats how he got them. Have you ever seen Michelle’s arms?

          6. Claire says:

            I guess we could deploy an experiment to see if he takes the bait. I could do a Jamie Lee Curtis style dance in his night chamber and we can see just how narcissistic he is. Perhaps he will proclaim his undying love for Michelle. Or we will see if he still occasionally lights up a Marlboro?

          7. Sweetest Perfection says:

            So, that’s why! I always wondered what exercise routine she followed. HAHAHA!

          8. evilmuskhat says:

            I find Ted Bundy a fascinating character, as indeed I do HG Tudor.

          9. Claire says:

            A lot of people find him fascinating but ultimately his perverse and sadistic side landed him in a box like an animal. He wasn’t so good at it after all.

          10. alexissmith2016 says:

            SP once you’re distanced enough from it. It is actually rather comical how they behave and perceive themselves.

            It is all starting to sink in now, how they just don’t get what they are. It took me a while. I think for me that was the most confusing when I found HG, that the majority of Ns just don’t even see what their behavior is like?

            Your N sounds like a total knob! He deserves to be laughed at xx

          11. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Alexissmith, if I could tell more without revealing too much you would die of a laugh attack. He’s a douchebag. I already told the story of how he created a modeling week on Facebook last summer to show off his abs on the beach. I think that was the catalyst that made me deactivate my account, probably due to EMBARRASSMENT.

          12. alexissmith2016 says:

            Hahahahaha oh that’s hilarious! A modelling week! I bet everyone was laughing as they hit the like button or writing fake comments for him.

          13. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Yep; it all started from an innocent comment of mine about a swimming trunk he bought which he was talking about for days; I just asked if he only had one for the whole summer since I have a lot of bikinis. I must have caused some ego injury because he proceeded to showcase the “2018 swim collection.” My friends and I were literally crying at home. Crying. And he posed with props and everything! A matching hat one day, a matching ball the next…🙈 and no, I am not that blind. He seemed deeper before we got entangled. Then he quickly revealed himself like the Somatic he is.

          14. alexissmith2016 says:

            Oh my god that is so funny! I would love to have seen that SP. I would have cried with you too hahah

            I don’t really use fb anymore. But occasionally log in to have a good laugh at the Ns of the world! Not sure whether you’re UK or not. but there was a tv sitcom out a few years back called ‘Nightynight’. I watched it at the time, it was hillarious but I also thought it was really far fetched in terms of how people behave. Then I met my N plus all the other Ns who went to this watering hole of his and all of a sudden this sitcom seemed more like a documentary. They truly are hilarious creatures indeed.

        4. evilmuskhat says:

          HG is contradicting himself here. He has stated in the past that both of the Clintons are Greaters.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            No, Bill is a Greater, Hillary a Mid Ranger.

          2. Claire says:

            You thought Hillary was co-dependent a long while ago. Why the shift?

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Co-dependent on Bill as part of her narcissistic dynamic.

          4. Claire says:

            She piggybacks I see..

          5. alexissmith2016 says:

            ‘Co-dependent on Bill as part of her narcissistic dynamic’.

            What? this is really interesting!

            So could an UMR and LMR be codependent on each other too?

          6. HG Tudor says:

            She is Mid Range and not a co-dependent, but she behaves in a co-dependent manner when it comes to ole Billy Boy, who is a Greater. As for UMR and LMR you will have to wait for the future When Narcissists Collide article.

          7. alexissmith2016 says:

            Oh I’ve been waiting for aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagggggggggggggggggggggggggggeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssssssssssss already! you are such a tease HG!

            And for greaters collision, super excited for this one too!

            From my own observations, the mids I know of that are in intimate relationships together. At the outset they beleive they are almost celebrity like status and that the world are so jealous of them. When infact, other laugh about them behind their backs and say how well suited they are.

            As the relationship progresses, they it is all incredibly fiery behind closed doors and they smear each other to some degree. But when out with each other they put on a celebrity show again as they don’t want to ruin the facade. Once it is ‘over’ the smearing is stepped up a few gears.

            Some seem to be able to make long lasting relationships together though, I guess due to their desire to maintain the facade? an the fact they beleie they are decent people and what to ‘make a go of it’. Even both go to marriage counselling.

            This is just my perception and of course I shall keep waiting for your article and the official HG seal of approval!

          8. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Alexissmith, you just described my narc: acting like he is a super star when in fact some people laugh at him behind his back, feeling like a victim who has been wounded to death when he finds out about these comments about him, believing he is a good person, staying in a long relationship to maintain the façade -albeit the infidelities- and attending counseling with his partner to give the impression he is a good husband who cares and will change. He is definitely a MRN. I’d love to read what HG has to say though.

          9. alexissmith2016 says:

            HG, would Bill have known what Hillary was when he met her?

          10. HG Tudor says:


          11. evilmuskhat says:

            HG, why the shift from the claim that Hillary is a Greater?

          12. HG Tudor says:

            No shift.

          13. Bibi says:

            Wow, Ted. Fancy seeing you here. Tell me, did 2K volts of electricity coursing throughout your body hurt at all?

            Don’t shake your finger at HG, young man!

          14. evilmuskhat says:

            HG, do you mean that you have always been of the opinion that Hillary is a Mid-Ranger and therefore lied before, or are you denying that you ever claimed both Clintons were Greaters?

          15. HG Tudor says:

            I mean that I stated Bill is a Greater and Hillary a Mid-Range Narcissist.

    3. MommyPino says:

      I was wondering if Margaret Thatcher was a Greater. I don’t know enough about her to make a more confident guess. But from what little I know, she seemed incredibly strong, unapologetic, didn’t play victim and amazingly intelligent. Greaters are rare in general, I bet it’s even more rare for women who are usually Mid-Rangers. I remember one commenter here say that women are just socialized differently than men and I think that it plays a role.

    4. mommypino says:

      Madonna might be a Greater Somatic.

      1. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

        Momypino. Drew Barrymore comes to my mind, as a Greater. I remember when it was said that Madonna wanted to meet and rough up Lucifer himself because she did not win the best whatever award for Evita. I am not joking. She was bat crazed rabid mad, I heard. Bargaining with Lucifer can be quite tricky, it seems. lol

        1. mommypino says:

          Wow I didn’t know that. I don’t really know a lot about Madonna. I wasn’t sure if she’s an Upper Lesser or a Greater. I don’t remember her playing a victim but I don’t follow her anyway.
          Drew Barrymore is a shocker to me. I actually thought that she is an empath. I love her movies with Adam Sandler. And I love that she had a bad start in life but was able to straighten up and reclaim her life from her demons. At least from an outsider that was how I saw it. But I don’t know a lot about her private life either. Just out of curiosity, why do you think that Drew Barrymore is a narc?

          1. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            Mommypino: (1) Re: Drew: From her family line from her hollywood father and from listening to her during interviews during my lifetime and noticing how she is a chameleon, and a bit strange and how she knows the images she portrays are not her and how she knows how to turn it on, she says. So she has the background genetically and the childhood abuse and the addictions and awareness of who she is, and the promiscuity, and the ability to still have the drive to be extremely successful, and she leaves collateral damage behind her in her love life of both men and women as she is sexually fluid. If she is married, I would not know if it were a Lavender marriage or not, if she is married to a male. She is well liked, in general, and I also like her more than I dislike her. And I think she is a very good actress and I loved her in the Wedding Singer, and Ever After. It is just my cultural awareness of Ms. Barrymore, that I think she is a Greater. I like her as an actress. And I believe that awareness of what one is, is a key factor in being a Greater. (2) Re: Madonna: Madonna is pretty much out of the closet as a Satanist. I do not dislike or like Madonna. But, if I had to make a choice, I dislike her more that I like her. She just is what she is, to me, culturally speaking. I like her song: Like a Virgin. And the song where she tells her father she is going to have her baby. For some reason, I think of Greater Narcissists as being more publicly likable and suave and sophisticated than Madonna. Maybe, because I only have HG Tudor to compare a Greater to. So, based on HG, I would not call Madonna a Greater. So many people do not like her. And she is banned from certain countries and many venues as a corruptor. But, maybe she is a Greater. HG says that the schools and cadres that he has given us is an overview, and there is more to it and that he will bring it to us, in due time (I am blame-shifting any errors I am making to HG) lol. See! I am learning a lot on this site. 🙂 And, I can not believe I am writing this much about these 2 people: Drew Barrymore and Madonna. If I do not start getting more likes on my posts, overall, on Narcsite, my strength is surely going to wan on posting on here. Just reading on here is so much easier. hahaha.

          2. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            Drew Barrymore

            `The E.T. actress was sexually assaulted by her own father, which led to her abusing of drugs and alcohol.`~~People From the time I became famous in E.T., my life got really weird. One day I was a little girl, and the next day I was being mobbed by people who wanted me to sign my autograph or pose for pictures or who just wanted to touch me. It was frightening. I was this 7-year-old who was expected to be going on a mature 29. By the time I was 8½, I felt like I was some abnormal, crazy girl. I could walk up to the door of any nightclub and they’d say, “Hi, you’re that little girl. Come in.”I started smoking cigarettes when I was 9½. I was, like, smoking constantly and going out and doing everything I could do to be bad. I thought, “Well, if I smoke cigarettes, I can drink.” At first it was with friends. Just sneaking. I would drink not to have fun—I would drink to get drunk. I was also a club-hopper at 10, as much as a 10-year-old can be. I would sleep over at a friend’s house, and we would sneak out. And after a while I started thinking, “Well, this is getting boring now, so let’s try something even better. If I can drink, I can smoke pot. There’s nothing to it.” When I was 10½, I was sitting in a room with a group of young adults who were smoking pot. I wanted to try some, and they said, “Sure. Isn’t it cute, a little girl getting stoned?” Eventually that got boring, and my addict mind told me, “Well, if smoking pot is cute, it’ll also be cute to get the heavier stuff like cocaine.” It was gradual. What I did kept getting worse and worse, and I didn’t care what anybody else thought.
            One night, last June, I’d been having a beer race with some friends, and I’d had a lot of beers. To put it bluntly, I was very intoxicated. When I got home I confronted my mother and screamed, “What the hell are you doing here?” I wanted her out of the house—I said it was my turn to be Mom. She just stood there blankly, looking at me like I was the biggest asshole in the world. She wasn’t feeding into my shit, and that only made things worse. So I started throwing things—glasses, vases. They were breaking all over the floor. I went from party girl to jerk of the planet.` Her mother put in in rehab or something like that when she was 13. `Relationships With Men
            She’s been married three times. In 1994 she married bar owner Jeremy Thomas. They divorced after 11 months. She then married Actor Tom Green and divorced him in 2001. She married Will Kopelman, the son of former Chanel CEO Arie Kopelman on June 2, 2012. They have two daughters: Olive Barrymore Kopelman (born September 26, 2012), and Frankie Barrymore Kopelman (born April 22, 2014).

            Drew’s relationships with men have been public, but her bisexuality was kept hidden for some time.

            Finally, in 2003 Barrymore admitted she is bisexual.

            Relationships With Women
            Drew says she’s had numerous affairs with women and will continue to do so. ` ~~LiveAbout.. Mommypino, she had a 19 day husband as well, but I do not know if he is mentioned above or not. Or, if it was annulled? She is very smart and has produced movies as well. She is quite seductive and men say she mesmerizes them, but is quite another person when you stay around her a while. RED FLAG! Anyway…that is some of Drew`s story. Madonna, I will not look up: She is not worth my time.

          3. mommypino says:

            Wow thank you PrincessSuperEmpath. I’m really shocked with Drew Barrymore. I just started doing my own reading about her too. I think that you’re right. She definitely doesn’t play victim so she’s not a Mid-Ranger. And she’s really smart, even when she was really young she appeared to be very bright. I was not aware of her multiple and short marriages. She is probably a Greater like you said. And she is really excellent with her facade. I would have never thought. I love Wedding Singer too, and I also love Fifty First Dates especially because of its soundtrack, and Blended is really funny. She’s too classy to be a Lesser and she doesn’t play poor me so I think that you’re right that she’s a Greater.
            I don’t care for Madonna either. I don’t believe that she really is a Satanist. I think that she just does that to provoke and get attention. She definitely didn’t age well. I don’t think that she’s attractive. When I was about 6 I used to sing and dance on top of the coffee table I’m Like a Virgin and Papa Don’t Preach to entertain my aunts and uncles. Now I realize they’re not the most appropriate songs for little girls to sing. English is our second language so we didn’t really internalize the real meanings behind the lyrics. We just enjoyed the melody. Now I wouldn’t want my daughter to sing those songs lol. 😬

          4. mommypino says:

            I just looked at Drew Barrymore’s IG, it’s really hard to believe it because she’s such a sweetheart. But everything that you said makes a lot of sense. Although could it be possible that she’s just narcissistic and not a full blown NPD? I don’t remember her being mean to anyone. She also appears to be a good and devoted mom.

          5. mommypino says:

            Actually PrincessSuperEmpath, the more I look at Drew Barrymore’s pictures, there is something about her smile and her eyes that is very calculating like a Greater. It’s all the same in all of her pictures. I feel bad that she was sexually abused by her dad when she was a child. It’s extremely sad: that was her own dad who did that to her.

          6. amanda SNapchat says:

            is mia farrow a greater or an empath savior?

          7. mommypino says:

            Hi Amanda, I honestly don’t know. I just know that HG did confirm that Woody Allen is a narc but I’m not aware of him saying anything about Mia. My best guess is she’s an Empath with a lot of Codependent tendencies. I don’t know enough to guess if she’s a Super Empath or a Standard especially since I’m not even that sure what distinguishes the Super from the Standard yet. 🤷‍♀️

          8. Claire says:

            I bet a true female greater would nauseate HG! He’d run with his trousers around his knees! Such a woman would be like a snake waiting to bite. Drew Barrymore is cute but I’m not sure what her station is in life—lots of instability but how not with her upbringing?

          9. HG Tudor says:


          10. Claire says:

            I would guess a true female greater can snatch a man’s dick off with her eyes. Why won’t you give us one example?

          11. Claire says:

            Would Thatcher the milk snatcher make you run? Let them eat cake!

          12. HG Tudor says:

            No, why would I run from a corpse?

          13. Claire says:

            All the more reason to run!

          14. HG Tudor says:

            Ha ha but think of the photo opportunities!

          15. Claire says:

            But you won’t let us see a picture—a good thing. I don’t want the visual. You may look like pee wee Herman.

          16. HG Tudor says:

            Except I don’t.

          17. Claire says:

            You know how embarrassing it would be if you did? I would look really bad to have placed faith in such a strange character if you ever jump out of the closet.

          18. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            Mommypino: Those school and cadres are a bit complicated for me at this point. This is all for HG Tudor to teach us more about. 🙂 Also, I think I confuse the word Greater with Wealth or Success, subconsciously. So that is why I thought Donald Trump was a Greater, and when HG Tudor said he is not a Greater, it made sense to me, that Donald Trump is not a Greater. It is a combination of traits and what traits dominate, etc. I do not know if a Greater is always malignant, either. Because, Drew Barrymore does not seem to have the reputation of being malignant. But, she does have rage. Mommypino, It is ironic how well she plays the romantic innocent ingenue roles. It is as if she is able to somehow recapture what was stolen from her as a child, when she acts in those roles. I hope she gets a feeling of power back, playing such roles that were denied to her in real life at so tender an age, because her famous hollywood father sexually assaulted her,etc. Also, her mother was her agent for a while, when she was young, and she criticized her mother asking her, are you my mother or are you my agent, if I remember correctly. And she did have a 19 day marriage, it was her first marriage, not listed on the list I gave you. She may have some magical thinking going on. He was British, I believe. Drew Barrymore would sometimes come on David Letterman`s talk show braless and would flash him her chest, on TV. Even skits were done about this by comedians. She also has a bit of a weight problem, and who knows how she manages that. But, I have some compassion for Drew Barrymore. Regarding Madonna, and those songs, our hair would catch on fire if we analyzed all the songs we loved as children. Even as grownups, we do not always realize the topic or symbols that we are singing to, at all times. lol. Every time I hear Madonna speak about something, I always think she has the intellect of a wine cork, but I hear that she is a master of marketing. Sure, I say, but she reaches out to the baser levels of people, and that is easy to do, I think. And I guess many people feel good following the promiscuity she pushes until they catch AIDs or something, then they do not like her so much. Or, perhaps they do not care and still follow her message, and buy her records. I do not know. I saw Madonna twice in real life, Mommypino. She is small boned, around five feet four or five inches. I am 5 feet 7 in my bare feet, and she is shorter than I am. And she has an unhealthy looking complexion! I remember thinking, while I looked at her: with all that money, do something, or eat some fresh carrots or squash or something, in your salads or hidden in your smoothies, if you do not like the taste. I do not like kale. But, one place I know makes a green smoothie, and I can not taste the kale. It is unbelievable, that they managed to hide the kale. I felt embarrassed looking at Madonna. She loves very young men, but I guess she can not actually consume them and have everlasting youth. Or, maybe she would look worse without them? I dunno. lol.

          19. mommypino says:

            Hi PrincessSuperEmpath, I have given more thought on Drew Barrymore. Claire brought up a great point that Drew grew up in an extremely dysfunctional environment so that could be the reason why she is also dysfunctional towards romantic relationships and had addiction problems. I have never seen her being provocative in trying to get negative fuel. As far as I know, she stays out of politics or giving provocative opinions unlike Madonna. I have never heard her maltreat or be mean to a minion either which I have heard about Meghan Markle, Ben Stiller, Naomi Campbell and Madonna. She was also never accused (or I’m just unaware of) of being a bully to newcomers in Hollywood whereas other more narcissistic celebs like Gwyneth Paltrow and Angelina Jolie. In fact she seems to even try to be encouraging and friendly to the younger newcomers, at least from what I see on the outside. I was looking at some of the men that she has been in relationships with and they are all far from her dad. They all seem to be nice men. Being sexually molested by your own dad leaves a lot of damage to a person and it is not uncommon for them to develop promiscuity but it doesn’t necessarily also develop to become NPD. She was already 7 when she did ET and I remember seeing her in an interview explaining that famous scene where she cried for ET, she said that she wasn’t really told to cry, she just felt sad for ET and she began to cry uncontrollably even after the cameras were rolling she still couldn’t stop crying for ET. That means she had very sensitive empathy and mirror neurons at 7. I know that NPD results from a combination of genetic predisposition and lack of control environment. She had the lack of control but does she have enough genetic predisposition? I think that since she was very empathic at age 7 I am more inclined to think that she didn’t have the genetic predisposition. Promiscuity is also a part of some empaths as their dirty streak. I believe that narcissistic traits like promiscuity become much more concentrated or stronger for Super Empaths, in fact I think I have read a comment from Renarde before that Super Empaths often get mistaken as narcissists. I wonder if Drew Barrymore might be a Super Empath. Although I have not seen her do a lot of volunteering either so I don’t know. But for now I think that she might just be really damaged but not NPD.

            I agree with you regarding Madonna’s complexion. She has really bad skin. They praise her looks on TV and I’m always thinking that they’re full of crap. I hate her body and her arms are full of varicose veins. I’m not even sure why I thought that she might be a Greater. I think it was because she is an amazing business woman and she has an amazing staying power in her career. She has done a lot and she obviously excelled in her career in a level that not a lot can equal. Her music is not my cup of tea but I don’t hate it either. She’s also a horrible actress but I think that she did a decent job playing Evita.

            I used to think the same way about Greaters and Lessers regarding success. But HG was a soy right on the way that he classified them based on cognitive abilities and temperament. I just think now that if there’s a highs successful and wealthy person who seems like a narcissist and people keep commenting about that person, “money can’t buy class”, that person is an Upper Lesser.

          20. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            Mommypino: I still think that Drew is a Narcissist, but HG Tudor says that a Narcissist still may have other disorders layered on. So I see what you are saying, Mommypino. One of her husbands said that her personality was not stable. That she has a restlessness. I believe that figuring out what school and cadres these people fall in is quite difficult for me, at this point. I really have not much to go on. I never saw a list of who is what to compare. HG Tudor is a Greater Elite Narcissist: That is almost the sum of my definitive knowledge. So, for now, he is my plumb-line. And I just read that he said that Margaret Thatcher is a Greater, but I do not have knowledge of her. So, I am not really helped by that, especially since she is a politician, and that field is rife with Narcissists, I am hearing. And, she is not part of my cultural memory other than being a powerful woman. I need a larger definitive list to work with!! Examples: To be able to start understanding this better, at some point. And to see that they have the NPD cycle in play, the gas-lighting, hoovering, discarding, etc. ~~~~~Bill Clinton does strike me as a master in Gas lighting. He is famous and infamous for playing with words and their meaning, when he is under investigation, or being challenged, by very intelligent people. And Love-bombing. Women say he can sweep one off her feet, easily. And he walks through different worlds at ease. Leaders of many countries admire him and call for his advice, and to speak. And he does have connections in the polite world and the `impolite` world, `to get things done,` so to speak. And he definitely seems to use Magical Thinking. He feels he is and he actually is irresistible to many women. Although not to all, and he seems to not understand that part: not to all. And he seems to know what he is, and has control of himself to never blow up in fury publicly, that I know of. He can talk to all people from poor to rich. He has charm. He definitely does not respect boundaries. He even bites women. And does not respect the normal societal institution of marriage. Entitlement. Tries to manage a harem as much as possible. No problem discarding. But, at end, this is all over my head, for now.

          21. mommypino says:

            Hi PrincessSuperEmpath, I get confused like you too. I made the same mistake with Madonna like the mistake you had with Trump where I thought that she might be a Greater because of her incredible success even though her behavior aligns more with the Lesser. You got Madonna right I believe. I am not too familiar with British politics but from an outsider, Margaret Thatcher is an impressive and extraordinary historical person. They call her Iron Lady for a good reason. She was born from a middle class family and achieved so much from her own efforts. She finished school from Oxford and she was a chemist before she became a politician. I have seen some quotes of her making reference to her humble beginnings but not in a Victim way that Obama did or Hillary did regarding her gender (although Hillary came from a wealthy white privileged kind of upbringing). I have read that Thatcher was very polarizing so British people either love her or hate her. Her policies were conservative and aligned very much with Reagan’s where she decreased the power of unions and some government benefits given to people. She was very practical and logical. Her husband was definitely an empath and Queen Elizabeth really liked him.

            I agree with what you said about Bill Clinton. He is definitely a very intelligent and charming Greater but unlike Thatcher he has more destructive habits with women. And I honestly wonder if the difference is partially because he is married to another narc with zero empathic traits but probably a lot of negative fuel provision and definitely a lot of residual benefits while Thatcher was married to a very kind empath. Bill Clinton has been accused of rape and sexual assaults which demonstrates what you said as magical thinking and entitlement. And also his defense of saying that he didn’t lie when he said that he didn’t have sexual relationship with Monica because they only had oral sex and he didn’t think that oral sex counts as sex is totally magical thinking that people would buy that lame excuse. But I agree that he does have an amazing control of his fury although I saw a little bit of his fury being ignited by Trump in Bill Clinton’s face and body language one time. His eyes narrowed and his lips were tight and also his jaw became slightly more prominent. He did look scary but he was on TV and was able to keep it together. I don’t think that Hillary could do that, she would have retorted with an emotional reaction that could be detrimental to her campaign. But Bill has always been very good with his retorts. He’s very sharp.

          22. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            Mommypino: I understand what you are saying. HG says that Narcissists may have order disorders layered on. I still believe she is a Narcissist, though. One of her husbands said that she was not stable in her personality, and was often restless with convention. The schools and cadres are still a mystery for me, because I do not have a lot to go on. HG Tudor is a Greater Elite Narcissist, and that is all I definitively know, so he is my plumb-line. I just read that he said Margaret T. is also, but she in not part of my cultural memory more that being a powerful woman. So, I am not helped to much with that info. So, I would need a large list of examples about who is who to better understand all this. ~~~~~With Bill Clinton, I know that he gaslights when under investigation and when challenged by intelligent people. He is infamous for gas-lighting. lol. He walks among worlds and world leaders respect him and ask for his advice and for him to come and speak to them. He travels well in polite and `impolite` company, to get things done so to speak. He talks easily with the rich and the poor. Women say he is irresistible and sweeps them off their feet, love-bombing, and he is callous when he is done with them, discards. He is charming. He does not understand that some women still are not attracting to him, Magical thinking. He violates boundaries of societal marriage norms and bites women. He feels entitled. and I have never seen him publicly blow up in fury or even heard of it, unlike his wife. So he has great control of himself. He seems to know who and what he is, but sometimes plays the victim, but perhaps not overly so. He is well liked, in general. I heard that he is very intelligent. But, like I said, I am weak on putting people in their category, such as Drew Barrymore. But, for some reason, Drew jumped to my mind, because she is also very intelligent, and behaves according to what I know of the NPD cycle. ~~~~~~When Madonna was looking to buy a condo in NYC, so many boards were up in an uproar that over most celebrities. The adamantly did not want her. She is not well liked. More than other huge celebrities. NIMBY: `Not In My Back Yard.` She is not charming. I heard when she married Guy Ritchie, she acted more British than the British. Hahaha. Whatever that means. It was not meant as a compliment, though. I posted some of this earlier, but my computer said it failed. So, I hope this time it comes through. lol.

          23. Alexissmith2016 says:


            HG gave an example of a female greater earlier – Margaret Thatcher!

            I reckon you’re right tho.

            He’d have had his trousers round his knees pretty damn quick! Maybe he even did…

          24. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            Mommypino: Thanks for the info. on Margaret T. I sure wish I could have seen Trump aggravating Bill Clinton! The art of the deal. Hahaha! Bill Clinton was a gaslighter for sure. Remember when he said, it depends on what you mean by, `is.` Something like that. Bill Clinton bit women. Ted Bundy did the same. Ted Bundy said when he killed a woman, he owned her. And he would revisit their hidden corpses and do you know what with them. He must have had a weak sense of smell. Boundary issues. Now, remember, Hillary supposedly had her affairs as well. Remember poor dead Vince Foster. And who knows how many others. They definitely seem to have an open marriage. Hillary played the woman card during the wrong years. People wanted jobs, and people did not care whether pants or a pantsuit, provided them. Oh well. History made its decision against Hillary and Bill this time around. Donald Trump promised jobs. Hillary promised her pantsuits. You know what would be amazing to watch? One day, men wake up, and not a single female could be found. For a long time. MGTOW, Men Going The Other Way, and PUA, Pick Up Artists, and Narcissists could all join hands and sing cumbayah or something, singing they missed having us around to ignore and use and devalue and rape and discard and kill. I bet they would appreciate us much more after that! I do not know how old your daughters are, but they should watch the Ted Bundy movie from 2002 on Youtube. It shows many different ways women are captured to be brutalized and more. It woke me up a bit as well. So many young women go missing, and I see how easy it is. It is good to scare girls in this manner. They are too gullible these days. Especially if a guy looks normal. Here is a copy:

          25. mommypino says:

            PrincessSuperEmpath, by the way, that picture of evilmuskhat of Ted Bundy is one of the stares that the handyman gave to me. I would normally be creeped out but in that instance I was flattered like why is he looking at me like I’m so delicious and he wants to devour me? Now I know it was just my fuel that he wanted to devour. He had another stare like he was pining for me but he was trying to be polite at the same time. Such actors.

            I did vote for Trump over Hillary. I like his policies better. And he is doing an excellent job with providing jobs. Trade wars with China is challenging and he is a narc so it is personal for him because he wants to show that he is superior and more powerful than the leaders in China. A lot of people underestimated Trump but our economy has done much more amazingly well under his leadership. Of course Obama tries to take credit for that too because he is a narc as well. There are rumors that Hillary is also sexually fluid. And there are also rumors that Trump’s locker room grabbing the p word talk is nothing compared to Bill Clinton’s dirty talk about women and even Hillary when he played golf with his friends. Bill Clinton just didn’t get caught.

            I think that would be great to watch PSE, to have all of those men miss us. Although the narcs can be sexually fluid to they will just go with whatever option is still left. Just like in the movie Mars Needs Moms where Mars abducted the moms on earth, Aliens could abduct all empaths and Normals and we can all watch the narcs have fuel crisis from our special monitors in our new planet.

            Regarding Ted Bundy, I personally think that he’s a low life and unsophisticated. He didn’t have a lot of skills going for him where he could excel at so in order to feel power he preyed and killed these unsuspecting women. Like you said, it is easy. It’s not that hard to fool innocent and unsuspecting women and if you’re a physically strong man, it isn’t hard to overpower and kill them. I have a lot of respect for HG when he said in an article that he doesn’t hurt animals, it is beneath him because they are weak (even though he doesn’t like them either). Ted Bundy had nothing going for him that’s why he resorted to killing unsuspecting women.

          26. mommypino says:

            Oh and thank you for the link. I will check that out. My daughter is only 2 1/2 right now but I have been teaching her how to be safe in ways that are appropriate for her age already and also in a way to not scare her. Innocence is precious and I want her to grow up someday where she can remember an age where she was totally innocent. Although it helps to tell my kids to always stay with me when we are out and hold hands etc.

          27. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            Mommypino: We both know that many celebrities in hollywood maintain a good facade for decades or until death. How? Sometimes the powers in media do not give the green light for their media minions to spill the truth on them, and sometimes the narcissists were good at hiding what they felt or did, and sometimes, both. I believe the majority of what we know about these people is pre-approved information. And presented to us for various reasons and timings. Other information is hidden from us. Some celebrities are presented as the good guys and some are presented as the bad guys, formally orchestrated by the hollywood media machine as well. I have heard that some celebrities refuse to play the bad guy when asked and then they get in trouble and are punished for refusing, when their appeal starts to decline. Hollywood never forgets, it is said. Others say, anything I do bad is publicized, but so-and-so does so much worse, and it is never reported. People want to see positive and negative, and hollywood will provide, and pick and choose. I can not trust the media and how it presents these celebrities further than I can throw a box of popcorn. We all have been deceived in this arena too many times. And if one offends a media power, that person will be smeared from one end of the earth to the other, by the media machine. Many facades are carefully built and nurtured in Hollywood, and people are bought off or pressured to say good things for their own safety. Threats are made. Negative info. never meets the light of day on the protected celebrities. And, many of these celebrities have protected status. I have heard celebrities say, when they were being discarded by Hollywood, that they cannot believed what was happening to them, and that they believed and fell for their own hype created about themselves. Re: The strange case of Drew Barrymore. I like her as an actress. I rather you be right than I be right, Mommypino. Indeed. She endured enough, and much too soon in her life. From both her father and her mother and her society at that time of her youth. You make valid points. I still believe she is a Narcissist, and I still hope you are right and I am wrong, in her case in particular. Madonna`s skin is corpse like in real life. I did not know how to describe it earlier, other than saying it looked unhealthy, but it came to me. It is corpse like. And I saw it with my own eyes. Twice.

          28. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            SMH: `Aliens could abduct all empaths and Normals and we can all watch the narcs have fuel crisis from our special monitors in our new planet.` ~~SMH. Hahahaha! I`ll make sure we have plenty of snacks as we watch from our monitors. Let the festivities begin! We empaths and normals need some rest! We`ve earned it! By the way, your daughter is just a baby. No Ted Bundy movies for her. But, please watch it. I found out the 2002 version is based on the real files. It scared me. I never saw a movie like that before.

          29. mommypino says:

            I will watch it PSE. I have been watching too many children’s movies lately. I would love a good thriller for a change. 😊😘

          30. Bibi says:

            Mia Farrow is a highly manipulative Mid Ranger.

            Mia deliberately goes out of her way to be associate herself with very high-profile men (Frank Sinatra, Andre Previn, Woody Allen) and then publicly whines when things don’t go her way.

            She is so anti-Woody Allen that she continues to smear him to this day, as well as coerce their kids to do the same. Yet has NO PROBLEM with him using her images in his films.

            When she was fighting with him over the Soon-Yi nonsense, she showed up to work thinking she was still going to star in Manhattan Murder Mystery. That role was given to Diane Keaton, who actually IS an empath.

            Mia is more concerned with image, high profile and adoption obsession than ever being empathic.

            Just read Moses Farrow’s accounts where he says that living with Mia was hell and that she regularly engaged in manipulative tactics. As result, she cut him out of her life for ‘betraying’ her.

            That entire family is sick and I feel sorry for Moses who I believe became a psychologist.

            But she is a very good actress. (In more ways than one.)

      2. Mommypino. I could see Madonna as a somatic. I started noticing something at gyms the past few years, and I did not know what I was looking at! I saw people with nice bodies that did not look healthy. Like Madonna. And later I starting overhearing these people discussing protein dumping, pills, sauna sweating, fasting, and such things, and one girl said she ate a potato and soda most of the time, and another one said she resorted to eating tissue paper during emergencies. I was flabbergasted about what I overheard some of these people discussing, when I happened to overhear them. I complained once to a girl I know that I had stopped improving, and she asked me would I like some pills, and I politely reclined. This girl is beautiful and healthy looking though. An exception. My point is that now I know what I was looking at: some of these people are somatic. Their body is a tool for the way it looks to get their needs met, not so much as being healthy. I heard one guy say to another guy: ` that, stuff will mess you up`. I do not know what the `stuff` was, but the other guy said: `I will worry about that when I get old, but for now it is working.` However, I notice people are getting old quicker these days. These people that mystified me are somatic. Mystery solved. 🙂 Regarding Madonna: However, my emotional thinking resists thinking of her as a Greater Narcissist, I think it is because I do not like her, and subconsciously I equate Greater not only with successful, but good in one way or another. I do not see her as good in any way. So even if she is a Greater Narcissist, my emotional thinking resists designating her that way.

        1. Renarde says:

          Hey Mommypino! Just read your comment about Drew being a SE and that some SE’s are mistaken for narcs? Well, I can only come from my own experience but yes, I am often easily mistaken for a narc (this is from other people, not an IP who is devaluing me).

          Id often wondered about this before I came to NS but now I understand about SE’s I can control the more narc like traits. By that I don’t mean by oppressing them all the time, knowing when is the correct situation to use them for my own advantage rather than used against me.

          AS to Drew – she could be a SE but some kids can cry on demand. TBH, I don’t know that much about her – she always seemed a little silly. Nice but silly.

          Is Madonna a Greater or a UL? Fascinating because she doesn’t half give the impression that she is very intelligent; she name drops literature, philosophers etc but she does it in a way that supposes that she is giving lip service and doesn’t really have deep understanding.

          She has certainly achieved success but is through through intelligence or just having an instinct reaction to exploit those that are vulnerable?

          Remember when she was on that pussy walk thing a while back. She said something about giving Trump a blow job was it? Something like that and the world ‘gasped’. I’m sure she thought she was being provocative – an older woman not giving a damn. That isn’t provocative – it’s just shock value. What she perceives as provocation is to grab that negative energy. I used to admire her a lot because at that time I did find her provocative and empowering.

          I think at one point she was genuinely a good role model but it’s just slipped hasn’t it not because she is older but because it has become more and more obvious and frankly, cheap and not about any feminist ideology but the maintenance of her facade.

          1. mommypino says:

            Hi Renarde, I agree with your observations regarding Madonna. Although she didn’t say that she will give Trump a blow job; she hates Trump. She said that she will give blow jobs to people who will vote for Hillary. All of the things that you and PrincessSuperEmpath said really makes me think that Madonna is an Upper Lesser. But of course I could be totally wrong. I’m waiting for the Very article that HG will write about Madonna. I like reading his very detailed analyses in those articles that he write.

            I really like Drew Barrymore. I like her silliness but I wouldn’t want to be around that 24/7 or it will become draining for me. She seems really sweet and bubbly. If she is a narc, she would definitely have to be a Greater like PrincessSuperEmpath said. But I am withholding judgment because I also don’t know enough about her to make a guess. I also still get confused about what a Super Empath really means. I am currently under an impression also the Super Empaths are very feisty and with a Director personality. Drew Barrymore is not feisty.

          2. mommypino says:

            I think based on how I understand it right now, an example of a Standard Empath would be Mr. Rogers of Mr. Roger’s Neighborhood because he’s not feisty but a Super Empath would be Judge Judy.

          3. nunya biz says:

            Eck, MP, I hate Judge Judy!

            But I like Drew Barrymore, I’ve been very interested in what you guys are saying because I can see both sides of it. I was thinking…
            I tend to see narcs as having a mean undercurrent to their false persona. Like something you can pick up on. For example, Ellen Degeneres. I can sense her alter-ego. I never thought that about DB. I felt empathy from her. But then I was thinking…. I never sensed a mean undercurrent in Michael Jackson either, he shows mostly sweetness. BUT I did sense SOMETHING. Something off, something weird, something hidden.
            But then I also think that even empaths can have detectable hidden things in some way.
            DB seems to have some common background similarities to Michael Jackson, so I thought that was interesting. I don’t see any rage, but I think maybe rage can take different forms? I do feel like I sense caring from her though.

            I watched her in an interview with Norm McDonald and I really liked her in it. I learned from that interview that I hadn’t understood how smart and driven she actually is. I am fascinated she said those things to her mother, but that actually just sounds bright to me, her mother seems ridiculous. I went through a massive rebellious streak because of my ridiculous mother and maybe she just got it all out when young.
            But I know this young girl who reminds me of the description of PSE of DB getting into clubs as the cute ET girl- she bats her eyes and purposely manipulates with cuteness, has a bit of DB’s appearance about her. She gives me the creeps and I know she is already developed as a full-blown N. She scares me and I keep my daughter’s time with her limited to school because I know for a fact she is N and I don’t want her entangled. She also hoovers already at her young age.
            Also, I only watched the first episode of the Santa Clarita Diet and I thought it was hilarious, I recommend checking it out.
            Also, it’s kind of funny to me that the ET movie has the initials “emotional thinking”.

          4. nunya biz says:

            No, I think first two episodes of SCD.

            I think it’s a little super-empathy-ish of a show.

    5. evilmuskhat says:

      HG, on December 17, 2018 you wrote, “They are not both Greaters.”
      Yet, on a Q & A live stream on July 16, 2017 in response to the question, “What school of narcissism would you put the Clintons in?”, you said, “Greater. They are a classic example of two Greaters coming together for their greater good of their empire.”

      1. HG Tudor says:

        The provision of additional information resulted in a re-evaluation.

        1. evilmuskhat says:

          Fair enough. Then why did you deny the shift at first?

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Because there has been no recent shift.

          2. evilmuskhat says:


          3. Brooke says:

            ” Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.”

            -Albert Einstein

  12. Bibi says:

    This image reminds me of this scene with G’mork from The Neverending Story:

    1. Twilight says:


      I had forgotten that part in the movie.

  13. J.G THE ONE says:

    Hello, H.G.Tudor.
    And you, in these moments can stop, can be detained?
    We already know that you can do a thousand and one evils and you are great, you are conscious and omniscient and omnipotent.
    Or maybe not?
    I think this is another magical thought, “about your omnipotence.
    And the lack of dominion and control over your impulses, invalidates such a statement.
    Because if the narcissist cannot stop, because his instincts are stronger than he is, his own instincts make the narcissist his own slave in obtaining fuel. Whether low, medium or narcissistic elite.
    It is paradoxical that you can control people, but you cannot control yourselves or govern yourselves.
    Lack of will, lack of domination, containment, dictatorship, subjugation, oppression, subjection, braking.
    Do you really still think that you are omnipotent?
    adj. That he can do anything:
    human beings are not omnipotent.
    If you manage to master your instincts then you will be omnipotent, I hope you get it from the heart. It is so gratifying to get the positive fuel instead of doing harm. Perhaps it is another Utopia of mine, because it needs contrast.
    Damn, there is never a complete solution, a new dead end. I see that I go back to my ways, and my healing features come to the surface…

    1. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

      J.G. Some of the manipulations are from habit as well as from instinct. If by chance certain habits stop working for the GEN, or if he finds a better way to get the result of the habit, or he can hide the habit better when needed, or fight off or even break the habit, because it no longer serves him, or is in fact causing him unwanted problems or harm, deciding what action to take regarding such habits are all under the GEN`s control and thus under his Power. All people usually work utilizing certain habits that work for them until they do not. It is difficult to fight off many habits, but it can be done, for a higher goal. After much battle, because some habits are practiced for so long they may feel like unshakeable instinct, when they are not. Also, remember there are still ties, bonds and links between the habit and the instincts. They can become enmeshed together. Like a surgeon, one has to think it all though, and do many minute tests and evaluations and observations to not dangerously sever bonds that are life sustaining when attempting to work on a certain situation, or deciding to remove or break a habit. So, it is never easy, for anyone. And should not be rushed by anyone, until as much a guarantee of success as possible is evidenced. And even then, only when absolutely necessary, and that is not even for the surgeon to determine, but for the person in question, according to his life and goals, whether or not he chooses to break or modify or hide or suppress a certain habit in question.

  14. Getting There says:

    HG, does the Greater care about role of person when planning manipulations and striking first? In other words, if the person is not an IPPS but experiences the devaluation side of the Greater, would the Greater recognize when that method stops working and try another; or would the Greater not try anything else as that person is not the IPPS?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      The Greater will do what is right for the Greater and this will mean assessing all available information, including the role of the person in the fuel matrix.

      1. Getting There says:

        Thank you, HG! That makes sense.

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