Come One, Come All

 come-one-come-all

My kind need people. We do not like to admit it as the suggestion of reliance on somebody else brings with it connotations of weakness and this dents our sense of omnipotence. It is however an inescapable fact. We do not like it and indeed this is in part the thing which drives our devaluing behaviour. I need other people because I need to gather fuel from those people through their emotional responses to me. I am often asked and sometimes lambasted for it, whether I obtain fuel from my writing and interaction with those who comment on it, asking questions and advancing their own experiences and theories. I freely admit I do so but emphasise that since all of those who I interact with are remote strangers then in accordance with the fuel index, the amount of fuel that I receive is very low. Nevertheless, it is naturally welcome and I am far more content to receive it than not. The receipt of this fuel though is not the driving force behind why I write and share my experiences, observations and increasing awareness. The receipt of fuel is neither the key reason why I interact with the many people who take the time to comment and question me. I interact with my readers because I gain by exhibiting my works to them. I interact because I learn from my readers, by understanding their views, their responses and their desires. I interact because they can learn from me and the dissemination of my knowledge is a powerful sensation indeed. I interact because I find the questions posed often challenging, invariably interesting and stimulating. I interact because I am interested in the lives and experiences of those who have found themselves participating with me. I also often find them entertaining and humorous too. Through my writing and the almost daily interaction with these people I have also come to recognise that these people fall in to particular groups. I have observed this repeatedly and I wanted to share this observation with you. You may recognise people belonging to these groups and have your own views about that inclusion. You may indeed recognise which group you belong to and quite possibly further categorisations which have not yet occurred to me. I would be interested to know. So, what are these groups?

  1. The Angered

Admittedly not a large group, but there are those who present full of anger and hatred, either towards my kind and even me specifically even though we have never met. Of course, I am representative of my kind, albeit a superior version and therefore it is to be expected that I would take some flak for this. I understand how badly people have been hurt and abused by my kind and therefore this anger is entirely natural. I have no issue whatsoever in people telling me what a bastard I am, that they would like to punch me in the mouth or that I should be taken out and shot. If people wish to vent their spleen in such a fashion, they should feel free to do so. They may feel better about it and of course it is just fuel to me.

  1. The Confused

There are those who are completely bewildered by what has happened and this state persists for some time, despite the explanations that I provide and the clarity through which I articulate these explanations. That is not to suggest that these people are thick or stupid, far from it, but is in fact testament to just how confusing, disorientating and perplexing our behaviour can be. Many people in this group cannot fathom out how our kind can be as we are and moreover how we cannot know what we are. It is pleasing to watch as the understanding suddenly forms over time, as the pieces fit together and the whole narcissistic experience begins to make sense. I often find that it is when those people begin to realise that they have to adopt our perspective in order to gain understanding. That is often the breakthrough moment

  1. The Answer Seeker

This group embodies one of the fundamental traits of empathic people; the need to know and understand. Question after question is posed, usually based on their own experiences in order to assist them in fathoming out what type of narcissist this person became entangled with, why the narcissist did as he did and what can be expected to happen next. Occasionally, this group may pose questions which are hypothetical but in the main the repeated and valid asking of questions is premised on what has happened to them.

  1. The Sponge

This group comprises of Answer Seekers but goes beyond this. They wish to know and understand everything there is to know about the narcissistic experience. They need to understand what happened to them but also find considerable interest in the experience of others and then applying their new found knowledge to unravelling the mysteries of the tales from other people. This group cannot get enough of the knowledge and understanding, they wish to examine every facet of narcissism, whether it is from the victim’s perspective or that of the narcissist. They need to know why, how and what. These people soak up all this knowledge and do so with a healthy understanding of their tolerance to do so as they place understanding above emotional response.

  1. The Burnt Victim

This group consists of people who find the whole entanglement with the narcissist still very raw. They may not be confused as they know what they have been ensnared by and they are beginning to understand the essentials of what has happened and why. Moments come when the content is difficult to stomach, the wounds still raw and painful and this may result in occasional absences, yet, the desire to have those wounds heal and push through the pain with commendable bravery sees these people pressing on with their interaction and understanding, no matter how much it continues to hurt.

  1. The Narcissists

As one might expect, my work will attract those who are of my kind and those who perhaps are not quite narcissists but have strong traits in that regard. These people recognise what they are and are content to share this as well as learn more about themselves by reading the words of one of their own. Occasionally they bristle and raise their hackles, once in a while lashing out, leaving others in no doubt as to what they are, but invariably they recognise my arena as a place of knowledge and learning and are content to engage in that as the primary purpose.

  1. The Unwitting Narcissists

From time to time this very small group has a membership when one of our kind wanders by and repeatedly exhibits all the traits which demonstrate that they are one of our kind, but they do not see it. Indeed, their blame-shifting, projection and deflection are manifestly obvious, but not to them for they have no insight. It is not in accordance with the five rules for me to tell them what they are, but I always recognise my kind when they alight here and from time to time they do.

  1. The Introspectives

This group comprises those who wish to learn about the narcissistic experience, ask questions and soak up the knowledge but in doing so, the experience is as much learning about my kind as understanding what they are and why they became entangled or keep becoming entangled. These people see the benefit of beginning to understand themselves by understanding the behaviour of their tormentor and are keen to grasp what it is about them, their behaviour, their past and their characteristics which influences their choices.

  1. The Staters of the Obvious

This group, which is small, consists of those who seem to believe that they have to tell me what I am. I do not include those who advance an idea or theory in a respectful manner based on their own experience and understanding. It is evident when somebody is doing that and such a constructive approach is always welcomed. The Staters of the Obvious have a tendency to tell me what I already know, do so in a derogatory fashion and make it appear as if it is some major revelation to me. For instance, they may announce,

“Your kind are just all spoilt children and you will never be happy.”

Thanks for that. That is illuminating.

Or I am advised,

“You are just a fucking waste of space and karma will get you because you are empty and evil.”

Glad we cleared that up then.

It is of course fuel and many who engage in this do so not because they are angry but because they believe they understand what I am more than I do myself. They are incorrect. This often happens when someone comes across my material for the first time and races to such injudicious pronouncements without digesting more of my work which will soon reveal to them that my level of awareness is considerable. I do find that those individuals flare up and vanish very quickly when the bite they are hoping for does not come. It is easy to play with such people and I could amuse myself by doing so, working them up into a frenzy as they unwittingly realise they are pouring fuel in my direction but that is not a productive use of my time.

  1. On the Up

This group consists of those who are recovering and supplementing their recovery with additional knowledge and understanding. They have a clear direction of where they are going and in typical empathic style they wish to share their experiences and help others. This is not done in a bragging manner (see the group below) and it is not expressed so it is “all about them” but is rather done from the purpose of giving encouragement and inspiring others that there is a way forward and a path through the pain. This group are keen to detail constructively what has worked for them and what has not. Their recollections are often under-stated, modest and sensible.

  1. Point to Prove

By contrast to the above group, those members in this small group feel the need to repeatedly declare how much of a champion they are for surviving. Indeed, I understand the pride which must come to the fore after having suffered horrendously and then having moved forward, but the frequent need to shout this from the rooftops tends to suggest to me that the progress is not as great or a secure as they would like others to believe. Indeed, I often regard those in this group, as compared to those above, as being more in it for themselves and do it more to bash and bait my kind, rather than truly revel in the advancement of their own recovery and those of their fellow victims.

  1. The Weaponising Empath

This group is one of the larger, if not the largest group I find I am interacting with. It consists of people who realise that they have access to a unique resource which they can use repeatedly to help themselves by understanding. They know they can ask questions, read as much or as little as they require, they frame considered and respectful questions and do so in order to understand, to acquire knowledge, to defend themselves and to enable them to tackle the effects and influence of the narcissist or narcissists in their life. The members of this group recognise that they can gain far more by engaging with me than seeking to point score, but that does not mean they will necessarily accept everything that is stated with querying or even challenging it. They adopt an open-minded approach to the ongoing process that they find themselves a part of and are enthusiastic in being able to avail themselves of a rare and unusual source of knowledge. They are able to put to one side any distaste they may have at “fraternising with the enemy” by reason of their empathic nature (they recognise what has happened to my kind as well) and the fact they know they stand far more to gain by extracting knowledge and observation than by engaging in a bun fight. Many appear within this group from the start and others gravitate towards it during their interaction with me. It is a beneficial and rewarding group for its members and for me as well.

Do any of these groups seem familiar to you? Perhaps there are others I have missed. Perhaps you identify which one you belong to. I would be interested to read your observations.

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56 Comments

  1. HG, a close elderly friend of mine died a while ago. She was relatively wealthy and had the same financial advisor for several decades. He was a holy N financial advisor. She only knew him as a financial advisor and not ever as a friend.

    outside of seeking financial advice from him she had no interaction with him and that is a fact not an interpretation or my perception (to save your reading time I won’t go into the detail of how I know that).

    A few years ago she asked me to accompany her on one of his visits. He gave her wholly misappropriate advice And had she followed his advice he would have screwed her out of a substantial amount of money.

    I strongly advised her to not follow this advice, explained why and she did not. I also suggested she find a new advisor. Sadly she continued with him.

    A few days before she passed away, he visited her on her death bed. She was unable to speak but capable of understanding And able to communicate yes or no. After he had gone I said that it was weird he had visited her and she agreed.

    Three weeks later he came to her funeral and treated close family and friends as if he was close with them, he was not.

    Long story for a simple question. If you could please assume everything I’ve said to be correct.

    Why would be come to her funeral? All I can think of is likening it to when you watch documentaries or films and they say a murderer always turns up at the funeral etc. He had no part in her death. I therefore imagine that he would have derived some sick pleasure from knowing he had screwed her over at some point (he did seem somewhat elated?) and this was him just coming along to prove to himself what a powerful and devious person he is.

    I feel physically sick as I’m writing this.

    All the above is fact but I do not know whether he actually got away with anything. That part is an assumption based on the fact I know he tried. I know he did not get away with it the time I accompanied her and she definitely never took up that advice from him.

    Based on the above do you think he did a screw her over in some way? At another time, with another product. Is that why he went to her funeral and turned up on her death bed? Fuel?

    Ah god this is so gross.

    1. Control. He wanted to ensure that there was no suspicion aimed at him, thus he attended the funeral where he would also gain fuel.

      I cannot add anything further (although there may be more) without knowing the school of narcissist he is.

      1. Thank you so much HG, although I do feel physically sick and want revenge on this person. I don’t know what school of N he is sadly, or I would have loved to know more.

        The first time I met him (when my friend asked me to accompany her), I knew I didn’t like him instantly. I had no clue about Ns back then but before he even opened his mouth and said anything I took a dislike to him. Like you could almost see him coil up in his own drool as he salivated over the prospect of tricking her.

        He was smarmy and sly. I know by and large these types will be. He sent chills down my spine even then.

        Since I’ve learned about Ns and the schools from you. It is only the greaters who give me chills, but I think that is probably because I know how cold an cunning they are rather than because of some kind of ESP. But back then I guess, I sensed he was not a kind man.

        thank you anyway. Obviously if I told that story to any of my friends, they would think it a little odd. But not suspect anything and instead probably believe (because he was a church goer) that he was just caring about his clients.

        So it feels good to get some perspective and validation from you. Thanks x

  2. sorry HG. i had problem with refreshing the page. i couldn’t see my comment then i sent it once again. now there are two of the same comments here. i didn’t want to invade

  3. Hello HG,

    Can you tell us what those fives rules are that you use in order to tell an unwitting narcissist what he or she is ? Because till now i only use two,and that is,1 whenever i feel like doing so. And 2 i have to be willing to discard them right after i told them.

  4. SMH,
    Up his hoover game…..this made me chuckle. Like he is being scored on it.
    And yes you are correct…married 2 times. Not sure why I married either one of them. Good things from both were my boys.
    I also always think/thought of myself as IPSS.. My understanding of IPSS versus DLS is the DLS would never be promoted to IPPS. Our “dates” were always at very crowded places near where we live or work. Nothing hidden. When we went to dinner a couple weeks ago, when he picked me up he seemed very anxious. He was picking me up a block from his house and having to drive out of the neighborhood in daylight. We had gone out before from my house but it was always in the middle of the day when everyone else was at work. He had just gotten off the train with his new CIPSS and the trains were running late. He said he was running late…which he does hate….and that was it. I let it go. First time I had ever seen him frazzled. I was surprised he even picked me up and didnt just tell me to meet him at the restaurant
    And now miss smartie pants, you say you can tell me exactly how I will convince myself to break NC. Tell away.
    Hope your trip is going well and you are staying out of trouble. I am off today for a couple of days. Word PRess doesnt like my phone and I am not dragging my computer with me. So I will “talk” over the weekend. I am back Saturday.

    1. Kim e, I got a boy from one of them too. A good thing indeed! I shouldn’t have married the second one.

      Funny that your narc goes out in public with you when you are a DLS. How does that work? MRN and I never went anywhere – he always came to my place. I don’t know if I was in line for promotion at any point but his behaviors suggested IPSS because I was tested a lot.

      You will break NC by convincing yourself that you can handle it because you are strong and have always been able to handle everything else.

      Oyster man couldn’t wait and emailed me this morning instead of waiting for me to email him. He “decided” we shouldn’t see each other again. In the first email he ever sent, he told me that he gets overly enthusiastic and involved very quickly, and it turns women off. He did exactly that and when I pushed back and tried to get him to dial it down a bit, he cut and ran. I have to laugh. Maybe he was a codependent – needs to be needed? But I am not a narc so his attention was not fuel for me.

      Hope you are enjoying your time away. I am also away but have my laptop with me (I don’t do narcsite on my phone either – or very rarely).

      1. HG
        Funny that your narc goes out in public with you when you are a DLS. How does that work? MRN and I never went anywhere – he always came to my place. I don’t

      2. HG..sorry…didnt mean to send this before without asking the question.
        SMH stated that her N never took her out in public where as mine never had an issue with it. We were described by you as DLS. Why would her N not take her out but mine would?
        Also you stated that FWB and Booty call were other names for DLS yet when you describe IPSS categories, DLS is by itself.
        Not questioning you. Just trying to grasp what the differences are.

        Thank you

        1. As I understand from the information you provided me, the narcissist took you out in public on the very few occasions you spent time together and it was just you and him, thus there was no integration with the rest of his world. You were compartmentalised in a world which was just you and him, separate from everything else, in the same way SMH was – that is the key factor.

          1. we spent too much time together in public – most of time hand in hand- . i guess the point is meeting with his circle, be knowin by others am i right?

        2. I used to be insulted I was a secret as well. Sure we’d go out every now and then but I was compartmentalized as well and it made me feel insulted. Now that I escaped… I consider it a blessing I was hidden. Who cares if he insulted me to his dumb friends that don’t even know me, or his stupid family who doesn’t know me. What do I care what people whom I’ll never meet think? I don’t.

          Being hidden is blessing. See it as good thing.

          1. empath007
            I dont see how they could smear a DLS. They would then have to admit that we existed and that would threaten the facade.
            Not to offend, but you sound very hurt that you were hidden. Dumb friends and stupid family lead me to believe you were/are very hurt that you were hidden.

          2. I was hurt at the time. Very. But a lot of that was me not thinking straight and had to do with my pride.

            I can have a fowl mouth when I want too, so that’s all that’s about. I do look down on people that can’t figure him out a bit.

            I’ve Been no contact for 15 months now so I truly am happy I was hidden. The only reasons I even still
            Think about him is because we work for the same company still… so I am always looking over my shoulder. I am planning on leaving but am looking for something else currently.

          3. I have read your thread about being hidden, in my case it was obviously meant to be like that. However, he took some liberties in front of our common friends and even of my husband while we were entangled; for example, he stayed in my house way after everyone left my birthday party with just my husband and me, talking and drinking, which obviously made me feel weird. He also sat next to me and my husband at a bar we went to with a group of friends and he kept drinking from my glass of wine, allegedly by mistake, instead of from his. I think he did all of this on purpose to assert his control and ownership of me. I honestly don’t care whether I was a DLS or an IPSS, but the fact he was triangulating me with another supply outside of his marriage and making us compete against each other while at times asking me if I ever wish our circumstances were different makes me think of the latter. But who cares. I wouldn’t fight for him anyway so I prefer it to stay as a secret, dirty but little.

          4. Ya he probably wanted to cause tension between a) yourself and your husband b) himself and his wife and c) you and the other IPSS…. oh the triangulation !! The fuel !! The “power” to make all these people angry 🤣 plus as an UL he was probably just generally more sloppy and anything in the name of fuel.

            You keep your empath. Forget that looser.

          5. He is so fucking entitled and grandiose -while being so rudimentary at the same time- that I was worried he was gonna make everything known for being so clumsy. My husband even told me once he didn’t like the bold sexual flirtation he kept with me on social media. He didn’t worry about anything or anyone. I kept telling him to be less obvious but he didn’t care. I’m sure now he and his wife have a million arguments even though she pretends to be cool.

          6. empath007
            i sent a message his IPSS once. she knows me as a girl who disturb his husband. i guess she also knows his new secret but i think she suspects me, he doesn’t deny it. we had an argument on the phone once when he was with a friend. being hidden is blessing but it doesn’t an obstacle to labeling as “crazy”. he blocked me everywhere but he still holds my best friends’ number -she can see his info on whatsapp- my friend blocked him but i am sure if he could he’d talk about me.

            i don’t care too. but i can see he doesn’t miss any chance for paint me black, even when he’s gone

      3. SMH….
        I found it so strange that I never felt like a DLS either. I was insulted when HG told me that is what I am because I never felt like I was hidden. I have asked HG why my N did not hide me but yours did if we were both DLS’.
        Oyster man…poor guy. Just wants to be needed. I like the way he decided to not see you any more. Takes all the pressure off you…LOL Are we taking odds as to when and if he emails again?
        My time away was great. Went hiking, vegging and reading…OH…and eating and drinking. Driving back home I could feel the anxiety rising. Please don’t tell me I have to move to get this to be over. Moving parking has helped. But of course HG was right and since I escaped now I am just wondering how and when the hoover will come. Guess that is pretty stupid of me to do as it could be months
        Are you back from your journey? How did it go?

        1. Kim e, I asked HG once too because of course if you are having an affair you are not going to parade your mistress around town (most men wouldn’t) or introduce her to your family. I don’t remember his answer but I left DLS in the dust because MRN and I had a lot in common and he treated me like what I came to call his ‘alt-wife,’ including post-escape. I know it was all smoke and mirrors but he wouldn’t have talked to me about life-changing things had he not had a modicum of admiration. He was really curious about me, perhaps a tad envious and, as I said, he wanted to meet my son. He acknowledged on some level that I had a full life that wasn’t just about him. In fact, he asked so many questions that during one of our death spirals I threw it back at him – how come you are allowed to ask me whatever you want about my life? I always answer but god forbid I should ask you a question about anything!!

          As for oyster-man, well, for awhile over the weekend I was pissed off – his generosity was actually a form of selfishness. I was thinking about how he physically crowded me when we were having dinner the last time we saw each other. I kept trying to get comfortable with the space and he wouldn’t give me any. Just like what he did emotionally. But I did not write back and have mostly forgotten about it now. I don’t think he’s the type to email again if I do not respond, but who knows!!

          Glad you had a good trip. I did too and have a lot of pending things today. I know how you feel coming home. My anxiety levels would also rise when I’d return. MRN is now gone so it’s my city again, but the last time I had to return when he was still there, I did not contact him until I felt used to being there without him. The same can be said for any space you occupied with yours – one thing that made me uncomfortable was that MRN and I always saw each other at my place. I did not want that to become a problem for me when things went south, so I was very conscious of protecting it by, for instance, always having lots of visitors so lots of people in my space. You just have to power through it and soon it will seem normal, hoover or not. Have a party! That’s what I would do! Just don’t break NC. Give yourself a chance to close those psychic and physical gaps.

          1. SMH….funny thing is this last time that I went NC was caused by seeing him walking that dog. He talked about getting that dog when we were together. After I saw him I thought WTF….I saw you 2 night ago for dinner and you never mentioned this dog that you got 4 months ago? We do talk a lot about both of us and he does ask me questions. I ask him about his girls and military stuff.
            I did tell him at dinner that I was sorry I “disappeared”. He said…..”that is OK. You were busy with school”. I said” No. That was over with.” (proving he has no concept of time and the thing just picks up where it left off. On 8/14 I sent him a pic of my diploma that I got in April. He commented “wow..that was awhile ago”. Yet a week later it doesn’t dawn on him that I had graduated when I disappeared…….)
            Anyway, I told him I disappered because just because he doesnt do emotions, I do and sometimes mine over whelm me and I need to back off. He said..I get it. I told him I would probably disappear again too. He just looked at me.
            I know that he is married and that really doesnt bother me as I have done married in the majority of my relationships. A shrink would have a field day with me. But I am not doing 15 other people.
            Sorry to ramble. ET still not under control. I want to cry today. Want to go home and sleep and cry.
            But what the hell….you tell me it will only take me 4 – 6 months……..if he hoovers I am dead

          2. Kim e, Sorry you are feeling so down but glad you can make a joke about the 15 other people!

            Honestly, yours sounds so much like mine – no emotions, no concept of time, no real engagement with what you are saying, (allegedly) no memories of what was discussed, weird hoovers. It is bizarre. You know I came to the conclusion that mine had a mental illness. Towards the end, it helped me to break my attachment and attraction because I clearly saw the immature little boy. Who knows if I would still feel the same way now but I don’t think they can present themselves any differently. We have seen what they are and what they do.

            Didn’t bother me that mine was married either and I think that’s because I knew we could never have a real relationship anyway. It would be different with someone with whom I could envision a life. I don’t normally do married but I did once before decades ago. That relationship was fine. It ended on a good note for both of us after about a year and a half. Since MRN, however, it seems that I am mostly attracted to married men! I think it is an intimacy problem for us too, which might also be why I had such a strong reaction to oyster man.

            A therapist might well be able to help you work through it. I did go to therapy for quite awhile when I was with MRN but I did all of the escaping on my own because my therapist was trying to help me to manage it instead of getting out. She had seen me through a few months during the demise of my marriage and thought I was way more attached to MRN than I had been to my ExLH, which was true. She had some good insights but I had to tell her MRN was a narcissist after finding HG. She believed me but by then I had escaped already and told IPPS (which my therapist had said I should do). I think a therapist combined with HG can be really helpful. I look at therapy as a chance to talk about stuff to someone who is paid to listen.

        2. Kim e, Just an addendum. Something compelled me to look at IPPS’s IG this afternoon (it is public because she tries to have a niche and a ‘following’). IG has been a trove of information for me over the years, including noticing odd patterns, such as neither IPPS nor MRN ever commenting on each other’s posts but always ‘liking’ them immediately, IPPS never posting a picture of MRN; MRN only posting a pic of IPPS with their kids; neither of them ever mentioning or tagging the other, etc.

          Something has changed. MRN has disappeared completely from IPPS’s posts. She still doesn’t mention him or give any indication that they are together, but the last picture of him was last November at an extended family dinner with just his head sticking out from between other people. The main thing I noticed is that he doesn’t ‘like’ her posts anymore (he would like every single one of them, always among the first). He didn’t even ‘like’ the posts of their kids, which is really weird. And one of her posts was her driving around alone on a Friday night (she always says ‘I’ – never ‘we’). I did not check to see if MRN is still on IG but IPPS’s indicates that something has changed because the pattern has changed. Of course I could be wrong since they always seemed like two ships passing in the night anyway, but I could also be right.

          My feeling? Maybe she finally dumped his sorry ass. She did it once before we met, so maybe she had enough. I sure hope so!! Not so I can have him, of course. I don’t want him (do I?). I just feel this strange sense of elation and that I can move on now and get serious about married work gigolo (kidding about that!).

          1. SMH HHHMMMM so what triggered you to check IG? And the true question that you yourself asked is “do you want him back”? Interesting that you checked her IG but not his.
            I do not dare check my N’s facebook as I know i will trigger so back to then go check is baby momma’s page and his kids pages and some friends pages. Cant do it.
            I am so hyped today. Well that is not true…let me rephrase. I was great on the train coming in this morning…..Watching Jack Whitehall Travels with my Father on Netflix…….Then I got to the station and my attitude hit the toilet. IT is like entering a black hole of memories. My anxiety hits the roof. I guess that is why it is called withdrawal and I understand why NC is broken so often to relief the pain.
            Wont lie……I think about breaking it at least 938407834 times a day and pray for a hoover. Not sure what at this point in time my reaction to a hoover would be but if I were a betting girl…I would fall for it even knowing what it is.
            Enough about me….LOL…I really want to know after all this time what made you check stuff out? How long has it been that you went NC? and besides the last FB and Linkedin friends requests when was the last hoover?

          2. Kim e, I went NC a year and a half ago now. I think the last hoover was around March of this year but I don’t really know. I had two strange FB friend requests, both of which contained clues having to do with my work and travel schedule, with where MRN lives and with the profile names. But for all I know, he checks my Facebook every day. No idea!!

            I don’t know what triggered the IG but I haven’t thought about it since I did it – really! I did look at his a few months ago and that also did not disturb me. I saw where he was going at one point (he travels a lot) and that actually kind of disgusted me (tmi to post here).

            I think I did not look at his this time or to see if he still had it because I wasn’t interested – I just did not feel compelled. I learn way more from her IG than from his anyway. He rarely posts and when he does it is all planes and water. I pointed that out to him once and said it seemed like he was always trying to escape wherever he was. He never focuses on the thing in front of him (except for his job, which requires a ton of mental energy and planning). He would sometimes even post the same shot as IPPS. He did not care about IG but she does, so the facade is really with her rather than with him, right?

            Do I want him back? I don’t believe I do. I have seen now what others have to offer – I did not allow myself to really consider anyone else when I was with MRN because I was hiding behind him. Even though I have not found the right person yet – except for married work guy, who obviously is not 100% right! – I am hopeful. And if he isn’t there, well, I am perfectly happy on my own. Seriously. I told myself in January that I had to get my shit together and just be. I did it for eight months – did not date a soul (though I did spend a good chunk of time with married work guy). Then oyster man came along. I was able to both give him a chance and to break away when it didn’t feel right, so there you go. I do not need anyone and neither do you.

            Breaking NC is indeed like a hit of the drug but you have to keep going to that station and make it your own. You are too raw now to see that it gets better but I promise you it will if you get your compulsiveness under control and do not look at his Facebook or fall for a hoover.

          3. SMH……My heart just sank. I just realized that it has just been 2 weeks since I blocked him and this is the first full week that I have moved train stations. I am freaking out for nothing as he probably hasnt even figured out I am gone.
            Rum and coke for dinner again…LOL

          4. Kim e, I hope you are feeling better today! He might notice that you are gone and deliberately ignore you or he might not notice, which might also disturb you. The good thing is that you will have no way of knowing. It makes no difference to you!

          5. SMH.
            Did you call me DISTURBED!?!?! Not very nice of you young lady…LOL
            OK…I will take your word for it not making a difference to me. I am still at the point where it does make a difference but I am going to try not to think about it. My head still hasnt wrapped around the fact that it is over. It is still expecting the hoovers like I got in the past. Once again HG was right.
            Thanks for the assistance once again.
            Have to figure out plans for the weekend so I dont really become disturbed. Getting hair highlighted Saturday morning but that is all planned. How about you?

          6. Hi Kim e,

            Of course you are disturbed. We all are! Haha. I meant disturbed in the form of bother. It should not bother you or make a difference because if you are NC, you shouldn’t care what he does, thinks, believes, etc. So yes, try not to think about it. Accepting that it’s over is a process – not going to happen overnight but you are definitely making progress. I think I was lucky in a way because MRN and I rarely saw each other on the weekends so I never planned anything with him in mind. My life was always normal on the weekends.

            However, I will say that when ExLH and I were splitting up I had a really hard time on the weekends for awhile. One day I just said to myself well so what if you stay in on a Saturday night on your own. I made it through and it was a relief to know that I could do it – that it didn’t matter, that I wouldn’t cease to be. That was a big step. I then began planning weekends with friends (exLH had alienated all of my friends) and that continued when MRN came along two months later. I also started going to the gym, in large part to have something to break up the day if I needed it.

            I have had a really busy week and now weekend, with no time at all for the gym! Last night I went to a memorial. Lots of people I had not seen in ages, good to reconnect, get drunk, not eat enough dinner, etc. Today I am going with a friend to a museum, a film, dinner and shopping. Tomorrow I have a meet up for this activist group I am involved in. If I had acceded to oyster man’s requests I would be going to Maine on Monday. But I did not and I am not. Staying put. If you and I knew each other and were in the same place, we could make plans. But alas that will never happen…

            Where are you geographically speaking? If you commute by train, you must be in a major metro area.

          7. SMH. Disturbed but unique.
            I never heard or saw N on weekends when I was CIPSS but once I became SIPSS I heard from 7 days a week. I always found that to be strange. Like the rest of it wasn’t…LOL
            I went and got a hair make over yesterday. New me……..I love it. Went to dinner with friends last night and made plans for a Vegas trip next year. Felt good to get out and laugh…a lot….tears from laughing were flowing. Margarita, prime rib and pumpkin pie…….my weight watchers app exploded!!!!!! 6 more pounds to go to my desired weight. I am going to go down 5 more from there but took it in steps.
            Did you see my comment about my “carpets”? I was surprised but maintained.
            Never say never. I am 30 miles west of Chicago. You?
            Today, Sunday, Laundry, Marvel or Star Trek movie binge.

          8. Kim e, I now see the carpet reference. Good for you! See? You can do it! And it sounds like you are taking care of yourself very well. All steps in the right direction.

            Funny what you say about the transition from CIPSS to SIPSS. Maybe he tested you more as CIPSS? There wasn’t much of a pattern to MRN’s weekend outreach – it just intensified as time went on (maybe I was also transitioned from CIPSS to SIPSS – not really sure).

            I do remember him contacting me one Mother’s Day and I was like, why aren’t you taking IPPS out for lunch or something? Other times I’d be full of plans while he seemed bored. Then he started a sport thing on Saturdays and would occasionally veer off course to see me. But my feeling now is that once he ‘normalized’ Saturdays (because he would say he was coming over and make me make time for him), he simply used Saturdays as another way to extract fuel. The first major argument we had was over a Saturday rendezvous – I told him at that point that he thought I was a satellite of his planet. That was the beginning of the end but it still took 11 more months to fully extricate myself.

            I am in NY at the moment but I lived in Chicago back in the day – my son was born there. The friends I reconnected with on Friday are all from that era, as was the person we were memorializing.

            Saw the marvelous biopic about Linda Ronstadt last night. I’d highly recommend it to all of my women friends and to all of my musician friends.

          9. SMH…..
            Easter 2018 I was texting with my N.
            He had hooverd me back kn in February and was now trying to get me to “seal the deal”!
            He told me he had to be at his mom’s at 2. At 2:20 I said, “you are late”. He said “no, I was waiting for you but when I figured it wasnt going to happen I left and went to my mom’s. I am there now”.
            I walked out my patio door and looked down the block. His SUV was in his drive way!!!! I almost wet myself laughing.
            Saturday was great and Sunday was great until around 8 and then something triggered me and I was off to the races. I unblocked and said…..”I dont care about the others…I miss him”. I was even going to go back to the old parking spot. LT then kicked in and he was reblocked.
            I then worked my way upstairs to get ready for bed. I went back down and unblocked. I got in bed. I got out of bed and reblocked. I did this 2 more times.
            OMG…….tell me it gets easier. Not sure if this was because of the hoover I got Friday and the ET was a delayed reaction.
            I am at this point still NC and parking in the new lot.
            Other than that…….It was a great weekend…LOL
            I was born in Chicago but have been a suburban girl since I was 3.

          10. HG. I should have said vacuumed not cleaned. Meaning I got hoovered. I am still NC. Nothing I could have done to stop it as it was in front of my office building. I saw out of the corner of my eye and just kept walking

          11. HG…I was seriously afraid that I had said something wrong and you were going to reprimand me. Are you in my brain??? Controlling me?

          12. SMH
            I’m going through a similar process. sometimes i think he does that because he knows i’m looking. i’m pretty sure that they are together but also he’s manipulating her for share or not. he doesn’t have an account. he uses her like a billboard.

            i am not a DLS in officially – couldn’t consult with HG- he has an IPPS,(i can be a candidate at first but more like a DLS at last) i don’t know what i am but we have always been outside for 2 years. people are intolerant about it in the country where I live. they have too much relatives and friends with his wife. i don’t know where he finds the courage.
            i think sometimes they think us as a DLS but they act us little bit different if they know that we can’t accept this.

          13. Hi ceyceyc, Are you still with yours? Funny you should say people are intolerant in your country because I had a whole discussion with MRN about why we could NOT have an affair – since there was no institution for it in our culture – no polygamy, no casa chica – we are not even French so no mistress acceptance. But he talked me into it anyway.

            The DLS/IPSS thing can be very confusing. I told MRN that I did not want to be IPPS – I thought he would be happy. But instead, his tone changed, of course because I was making the decision rather than him. I even said ‘oops, I shouldn’t have said that.’ He often treated me as if I was CIPSS anyway (i.e. in competition with IPPS, which I was not so he could not triangulate me with her) and he did most of the classic IPSS moves such as shelving. From my perspective, I was a SIPSS. I dare say HG would agree, but it is my own interpretation.

            As for IG, MRN did not know I was looking until I told him, and I only told him when I was escaping for the last time. I analyzed him, IPPS and their marriage via their Instagram posts. It was brilliant! It could be that he no longer has an account but I cannot be bothered to find out. I like my interpretation anyway! Ha. You know how we make up narratives in our heads to explain things? Well my feeling is that if your narrative works, it works!

            I have been NC for almost a year and a half and now we live in different countries. These days it seems like my ‘life’ with MRN was a figment of my imagination.

          14. SMH

            i like to read your conversations with Kim. i wanted to say something too. thank you for your reply.

            when i said “intolerance” i mean all kind of woman/man relationship. for example ; I haven’t seen my old friends (male ones) since they got married. i met their wifes but it would be a problem if I wanted to drink a coffee alone with my friends. I have many examples that I have had to explain that the person next to me is “my cousin/uncle/just a friend”. “meeting outside with me ” is unsafe in such an oppressive environment. my MRN took this risk for just a DLS.That’s what surprised me. polygamy is not something that I advocate. in 36 years, I’ve been in something like this for the first time. i can’t judge anyone, we are all free but I don’t want to experience this again – especially with a narc-

            “….because I had a whole discussion with MRN about why we could NOT have an affair – since there was no institution for it in our culture – no polygamy, no casa chica – we are not even French so no mistress acceptance. But he talked me into it anyway.”
            they don’t care anything. no matter what we say. i am sure i did same conversations with him, as you

            we were together for 2 years. he went NC in this April. – just kidding. i say NC because he knows the rules better than i do 🙂 – i tried to escape many times but of course he should have said the last word, he said, in this April. HG once told me he suspected that i am shelf but no communication channels are open now. i blocked him everywhere. I still can’t stop stalking his IPPS in Instagram.

            “…I analyzed him, IPPS and their marriage via their Instagram posts.” this is exactly what i do. I found the IPPS’s account when I realized he was lying to me. unfortunately ,unlike you, i told him. after that day we had a lot of fight about her posts. he always denied,he said that he didn’t know about what she posted but now i realize that he uses her for “happy family portrait” .after our break up she hasn’t share anything about him for 4 months. i saw his unhappy face in his some friends’ account. he seemed uncomfortable, he seemed to be hiding from the camera. last month suddenly she shared two photos of him, one of them was on his birthday, with a big smile. i didn’t send anything for his birthday. he definitely knows what he’s doing but i am not sure if it’s about me.

            “I have been NC for almost a year and a half and now we live in different countries. These days it seems like my ‘life’ with MRN was a figment of my imagination.”
            i am really happy for you. i’m sure it was hard but you’ve done. i wish the same for myself.

            ps: sorry for my English. i am trying to write correctly but there may be mistakes.

          15. SMH

            i like to read your conversations with Kim. i wanted to say something too. thank you for your reply.

            when i said “intolerance” i mean all kind of woman/man relationship. for example ; I haven’t seen my old friends (male ones) since they got married. i met their wifes but it would be a problem if I wanted to drink a coffee alone with my friends. I have many examples that I have had to explain that the person next to me is “my cousin/uncle/just a friend”. “meeting outside with me ” is unsafe in such an oppressive environment. my MRN took this risk for just a DLS.That’s what surprised me. polygamy is not something that I advocate. in 36 years, I’ve been in something like this for the first time. i can’t judge anyone, we are all free but I don’t want to experience this again – especially with a narc-

            “….because I had a whole discussion with MRN about why we could NOT have an affair – since there was no institution for it in our culture – no polygamy, no casa chica – we are not even French so no mistress acceptance. But he talked me into it anyway.”
            they don’t care anything. no matter what we say. i am sure i did same conversations with him, as you

            we were together for 2 years. he went NC in this April. – just kidding. i say NC because he knows the rules better than i do 🙂 – i tried to escape many times but of course he should have said the last word, he said, in this April. HG once told me he suspected that i am shelf but no communication channels are open now. i blocked him everywhere. I still can’t stop stalking his IPPS in Instagram.

            “…I analyzed him, IPPS and their marriage via their Instagram posts.” this is exactly what i do. I found the IPPS’s account when I realized he was lying to me. unfortunately ,unlike you, i told him. after that day we had a lot of fight about her posts. he always denied,he said that he didn’t know about what she posted but now i realize that he uses her for “happy family portrait” .after our break up she hasn’t share anything about him for 4 months. i saw his unhappy face in his some friends’ account. he seemed uncomfortable, he seemed to be hiding from the camera. last month suddenly she shared two photos of him, one of them was on his birthday, with a big smile. i didn’t send anything for his birthday. he definitely knows what he’s doing but i am not sure if it’s about me.

            “I have been NC for almost a year and a half and now we live in different countries. These days it seems like my ‘life’ with MRN was a figment of my imagination.”
            i am really happy for you. i’m sure it was hard but you’ve done. i wish the same for myself.

            ps: sorry for my English. i am trying to write correctly but there may be mistakes.

  5. HG
    Why would “Moving the car wounded, rather than challenged”?.I would think in my perception it would make him think he was losing/lost control.

      1. HG…there was plenty of emotion in my moving my car. I hate that I had to do it. Not just to a different parking spot int he same lot but to a different lot across town. But I get there was no emotion for him to see.
        Why would it even wound him?

        1. If you moved it and he did not witness it, there is no fuel, therefore it is an act which threatens control but do so without fuel and thus wounds.

          1. HG,
            Does the same thing go for moving/removing YOURSELF (like from him finding me at work)? Would that be considered wounding? I thought that would be neutral nothingness, since he can’t know I did it on purpose…I have no choice though, with NC.

          2. HG. Are you serious? Moving my car causes wounding? Part of control is where I park a hunk of metal?

          3. HG. Does it threaten control more if he sees me moving the car versus just realizing it was done?

          4. HG. Can you explain why seeing the car moved threatens more than noticing it is gone? I understand the wounding aspect of it being gone and the moving not being seen but not the control. My way of thinking is it has been moved period
            Thank you

          5. That’s really interesting. I would have thought that it would have threatened control more if the N had not seen it because if he see’s it he could rant at you/ chase you and attempt to regain the control. I guess it makes sense if he sees you do it and has no means to do anything about it.

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