Come One, Come All

 come-one-come-all

My kind need people. We do not like to admit it as the suggestion of reliance on somebody else brings with it connotations of weakness and this dents our sense of omnipotence. It is however an inescapable fact. We do not like it and indeed this is in part the thing which drives our devaluing behaviour. I need other people because I need to gather fuel from those people through their emotional responses to me. I am often asked and sometimes lambasted for it, whether I obtain fuel from my writing and interaction with those who comment on it, asking questions and advancing their own experiences and theories. I freely admit I do so but emphasise that since all of those who I interact with are remote strangers then in accordance with the fuel index, the amount of fuel that I receive is very low. Nevertheless, it is naturally welcome and I am far more content to receive it than not. The receipt of this fuel though is not the driving force behind why I write and share my experiences, observations and increasing awareness. The receipt of fuel is neither the key reason why I interact with the many people who take the time to comment and question me. I interact with my readers because I gain by exhibiting my works to them. I interact because I learn from my readers, by understanding their views, their responses and their desires. I interact because they can learn from me and the dissemination of my knowledge is a powerful sensation indeed. I interact because I find the questions posed often challenging, invariably interesting and stimulating. I interact because I am interested in the lives and experiences of those who have found themselves participating with me. I also often find them entertaining and humorous too. Through my writing and the almost daily interaction with these people I have also come to recognise that these people fall in to particular groups. I have observed this repeatedly and I wanted to share this observation with you. You may recognise people belonging to these groups and have your own views about that inclusion. You may indeed recognise which group you belong to and quite possibly further categorisations which have not yet occurred to me. I would be interested to know. So, what are these groups?

  1. The Angered

Admittedly not a large group, but there are those who present full of anger and hatred, either towards my kind and even me specifically even though we have never met. Of course, I am representative of my kind, albeit a superior version and therefore it is to be expected that I would take some flak for this. I understand how badly people have been hurt and abused by my kind and therefore this anger is entirely natural. I have no issue whatsoever in people telling me what a bastard I am, that they would like to punch me in the mouth or that I should be taken out and shot. If people wish to vent their spleen in such a fashion, they should feel free to do so. They may feel better about it and of course it is just fuel to me.

  1. The Confused

There are those who are completely bewildered by what has happened and this state persists for some time, despite the explanations that I provide and the clarity through which I articulate these explanations. That is not to suggest that these people are thick or stupid, far from it, but is in fact testament to just how confusing, disorientating and perplexing our behaviour can be. Many people in this group cannot fathom out how our kind can be as we are and moreover how we cannot know what we are. It is pleasing to watch as the understanding suddenly forms over time, as the pieces fit together and the whole narcissistic experience begins to make sense. I often find that it is when those people begin to realise that they have to adopt our perspective in order to gain understanding. That is often the breakthrough moment

  1. The Answer Seeker

This group embodies one of the fundamental traits of empathic people; the need to know and understand. Question after question is posed, usually based on their own experiences in order to assist them in fathoming out what type of narcissist this person became entangled with, why the narcissist did as he did and what can be expected to happen next. Occasionally, this group may pose questions which are hypothetical but in the main the repeated and valid asking of questions is premised on what has happened to them.

  1. The Sponge

This group comprises of Answer Seekers but goes beyond this. They wish to know and understand everything there is to know about the narcissistic experience. They need to understand what happened to them but also find considerable interest in the experience of others and then applying their new found knowledge to unravelling the mysteries of the tales from other people. This group cannot get enough of the knowledge and understanding, they wish to examine every facet of narcissism, whether it is from the victim’s perspective or that of the narcissist. They need to know why, how and what. These people soak up all this knowledge and do so with a healthy understanding of their tolerance to do so as they place understanding above emotional response.

  1. The Burnt Victim

This group consists of people who find the whole entanglement with the narcissist still very raw. They may not be confused as they know what they have been ensnared by and they are beginning to understand the essentials of what has happened and why. Moments come when the content is difficult to stomach, the wounds still raw and painful and this may result in occasional absences, yet, the desire to have those wounds heal and push through the pain with commendable bravery sees these people pressing on with their interaction and understanding, no matter how much it continues to hurt.

  1. The Narcissists

As one might expect, my work will attract those who are of my kind and those who perhaps are not quite narcissists but have strong traits in that regard. These people recognise what they are and are content to share this as well as learn more about themselves by reading the words of one of their own. Occasionally they bristle and raise their hackles, once in a while lashing out, leaving others in no doubt as to what they are, but invariably they recognise my arena as a place of knowledge and learning and are content to engage in that as the primary purpose.

  1. The Unwitting Narcissists

From time to time this very small group has a membership when one of our kind wanders by and repeatedly exhibits all the traits which demonstrate that they are one of our kind, but they do not see it. Indeed, their blame-shifting, projection and deflection are manifestly obvious, but not to them for they have no insight. It is not in accordance with the five rules for me to tell them what they are, but I always recognise my kind when they alight here and from time to time they do.

  1. The Introspectives

This group comprises those who wish to learn about the narcissistic experience, ask questions and soak up the knowledge but in doing so, the experience is as much learning about my kind as understanding what they are and why they became entangled or keep becoming entangled. These people see the benefit of beginning to understand themselves by understanding the behaviour of their tormentor and are keen to grasp what it is about them, their behaviour, their past and their characteristics which influences their choices.

  1. The Staters of the Obvious

This group, which is small, consists of those who seem to believe that they have to tell me what I am. I do not include those who advance an idea or theory in a respectful manner based on their own experience and understanding. It is evident when somebody is doing that and such a constructive approach is always welcomed. The Staters of the Obvious have a tendency to tell me what I already know, do so in a derogatory fashion and make it appear as if it is some major revelation to me. For instance, they may announce,

“Your kind are just all spoilt children and you will never be happy.”

Thanks for that. That is illuminating.

Or I am advised,

“You are just a fucking waste of space and karma will get you because you are empty and evil.”

Glad we cleared that up then.

It is of course fuel and many who engage in this do so not because they are angry but because they believe they understand what I am more than I do myself. They are incorrect. This often happens when someone comes across my material for the first time and races to such injudicious pronouncements without digesting more of my work which will soon reveal to them that my level of awareness is considerable. I do find that those individuals flare up and vanish very quickly when the bite they are hoping for does not come. It is easy to play with such people and I could amuse myself by doing so, working them up into a frenzy as they unwittingly realise they are pouring fuel in my direction but that is not a productive use of my time.

  1. On the Up

This group consists of those who are recovering and supplementing their recovery with additional knowledge and understanding. They have a clear direction of where they are going and in typical empathic style they wish to share their experiences and help others. This is not done in a bragging manner (see the group below) and it is not expressed so it is “all about them” but is rather done from the purpose of giving encouragement and inspiring others that there is a way forward and a path through the pain. This group are keen to detail constructively what has worked for them and what has not. Their recollections are often under-stated, modest and sensible.

  1. Point to Prove

By contrast to the above group, those members in this small group feel the need to repeatedly declare how much of a champion they are for surviving. Indeed, I understand the pride which must come to the fore after having suffered horrendously and then having moved forward, but the frequent need to shout this from the rooftops tends to suggest to me that the progress is not as great or a secure as they would like others to believe. Indeed, I often regard those in this group, as compared to those above, as being more in it for themselves and do it more to bash and bait my kind, rather than truly revel in the advancement of their own recovery and those of their fellow victims.

  1. The Weaponising Empath

This group is one of the larger, if not the largest group I find I am interacting with. It consists of people who realise that they have access to a unique resource which they can use repeatedly to help themselves by understanding. They know they can ask questions, read as much or as little as they require, they frame considered and respectful questions and do so in order to understand, to acquire knowledge, to defend themselves and to enable them to tackle the effects and influence of the narcissist or narcissists in their life. The members of this group recognise that they can gain far more by engaging with me than seeking to point score, but that does not mean they will necessarily accept everything that is stated with querying or even challenging it. They adopt an open-minded approach to the ongoing process that they find themselves a part of and are enthusiastic in being able to avail themselves of a rare and unusual source of knowledge. They are able to put to one side any distaste they may have at “fraternising with the enemy” by reason of their empathic nature (they recognise what has happened to my kind as well) and the fact they know they stand far more to gain by extracting knowledge and observation than by engaging in a bun fight. Many appear within this group from the start and others gravitate towards it during their interaction with me. It is a beneficial and rewarding group for its members and for me as well.

Do any of these groups seem familiar to you? Perhaps there are others I have missed. Perhaps you identify which one you belong to. I would be interested to read your observations.

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507 Comments

  1. HG when there are a group of say 20 Ns – all mids, would they all triangulate each other? and would they all feel jealous of one another?

    1. You haven’t provided a context for this group of 20 Mid Range Narcissists, AS2016, but in broad brush terms, any interaction between them would require the assertion of control over one another. This would mean that for some, triangulation would be a manipulation instinctively utilised for the purposes of asserting control. Envy and jealousy would undoubtedly be the manifestations of the unconscious sensation of a loss of control.

      1. Thank you for your answer. It’s a really a rather unusual situation hence the lack of context but your reply is incredibly helpful. I may sit back with a cup of tea and watch it all unfold…

          1. I just can’t keep away! I blend in well with my strong N traits. The mids can’t tell me apart from one of their own. I do need to practice on my pity plays, I’ve mastered the rest! Just future faking them into thinking they’re heading for something very special indeed – they all know they’re deserving of something a bit special – it’s their destiny – what they’ve been searching for all their lives….ahhhh. Then boom! They’ll all have a genuinely sad story to tell!

          2. Alexissmith2016
            Haha, you are ever so charitable. Avoid the crisps on the snack table at these Mid meetings. They’re overly salty from their tears.

          3. Hahha oooh thanks for the tip NA – I’ll be sure to take my own snacks now. Not sure I could swallow their tears

          4. alexissmith2016. Please record the audible for sure and the video if possible. It would make a wonderful podcast or sitcom!!! Looking forward to the results……………LOL. Wish I could join you.

  2. SMH,
    “>>>NC count with every misstep, I’d have to restart mine today”
    Last night I couldnt sleep and was looking at IG. I have a friend that is an instructor where the N does his kickboxing. ( he knows I know her, she does not know I know him) She has a post and it is of a halloween party they are having and SURE has there is a HELL, there is N smack dab in the middle of one of the pictures. I froze and just stared. It was like my brain was turned off. I finally looked away and FUCK came out of my mouth. I unfollowed that person….which pisses me off that I had to do that…….She had it in one of the stories you can put on your page that is only there for a couple hours so chnaces of me seeing that picture again are slim to none but never know if she will do more stories. So now, that picture is ingrained in my brain…….And just to ease your worried mind, he did not have a beard…….LOL

    1. Kim e, That sucks but you will get through it. I hate the way we have to change our activities – that our space is not ours anymore. I’ve seen new pics of MRN but at the time I looked they did not bother me. I would not look now with my ET seemingly high, however. I hope you sleep better tonight, especially knowing that he did not have a beard. But was he carrying a backpack?!

      1. SMH…….No back pack either…….
        I slept good last night probably cuz I did not sleep the night before.

        1. Kim e, Then that apparition wasn’t him. Glad you slept well. I did too and my ET was also much lower today. Maybe our ET rises when we lack sleep? Since narcs keep us up all the time, that might have something to do with it. I am a night owl so getting up early is always a problem for me. I remember way back when sleeping soundly past 5:30 a.m. was a huge step.

          I did think about MRN today but without ET – no longing. I am sure it was him on LinkedIn because of the timing. There are now 2 private views. I think LinkedIn removes them as the days pass so there have not been any new ones, just a removal of the old ones. But that also means that the views were paced because their disappearance is paced. Probably once a week knowing MRN. Nope nothing has changed…

          Anyway, I was super busy today but managed to get to the gym, which I was able to also do yesterday. I was very happy walking home. Was supposed to have dinner with a friend tonight but that is switched to Sunday so I am waiting for another friend to call. Apt guy wants to Skype again. There is no reason to – everything can be done in writing. He could be a wacko but what do I care since I won’t be here and will have taken my undies with me :).

          1. Kim e

            Dont beat yourself up. That sounds like one of the ghosts in the machine. It happens. I get it way too much.

            The way you’ve explained, is it really realistic that you could have possibly known?

            I can utterly relate to your shock. I once had an everpresence reminder from a song. And it wasnt one that we mutually liked either!

          2. Renarde, I get everpresence reminders from songs all the time and we never even discussed or listened to music! I have no idea what he liked or disliked. It’s so annoying.

  3. HG
    Can you explain more on the difference between tendency and a true narcissist? If you have spoke or written on this I apologize, new here. I’m a bit confused and a lot lost as to what is happening in my life. After reading some of these blog posts I believe my husband might be a MRN or an UMR. I would assume since he has been diagnosed as having strong tendencies that he has some awareness. I know a consult would be best but that isn’t an option for me as I’m still married and pretty much under the thumb and we have 3 boys.
    Thanks in advance for whatever you can supply.

      1. The example is clear, however how do I know if I’m being manipulated due to ET. I mean he uses sorry, and I feel does have some empathy but what if it’s a lie. Ugh, being so unsure is frustrating. Does someone with tendencies have the ability to evolve or is it still GOSO?

        1. If you are breaching the first golden rule of freedom you are being governed by ET. If you are unsure, arrange a consultation and I will assist you.

        2. hroot83, sorry for butting into your conversation with HG but to my mind, if you are unhappy or scared it doesn’t matter if your husband has NPD or just tendencies. When you say you are ‘under the thumb’ what do you mean?

        3. hroot83

          Hmm ‘sorry’ is indicative but not determinate. What I take from your posts is that you’re not happy.

          I suggest a consult.

  4. HG, a close elderly friend of mine died a while ago. She was relatively wealthy and had the same financial advisor for several decades. He was a holy N financial advisor. She only knew him as a financial advisor and not ever as a friend.

    outside of seeking financial advice from him she had no interaction with him and that is a fact not an interpretation or my perception (to save your reading time I won’t go into the detail of how I know that).

    A few years ago she asked me to accompany her on one of his visits. He gave her wholly misappropriate advice And had she followed his advice he would have screwed her out of a substantial amount of money.

    I strongly advised her to not follow this advice, explained why and she did not. I also suggested she find a new advisor. Sadly she continued with him.

    A few days before she passed away, he visited her on her death bed. She was unable to speak but capable of understanding And able to communicate yes or no. After he had gone I said that it was weird he had visited her and she agreed.

    Three weeks later he came to her funeral and treated close family and friends as if he was close with them, he was not.

    Long story for a simple question. If you could please assume everything I’ve said to be correct.

    Why would be come to her funeral? All I can think of is likening it to when you watch documentaries or films and they say a murderer always turns up at the funeral etc. He had no part in her death. I therefore imagine that he would have derived some sick pleasure from knowing he had screwed her over at some point (he did seem somewhat elated?) and this was him just coming along to prove to himself what a powerful and devious person he is.

    I feel physically sick as I’m writing this.

    All the above is fact but I do not know whether he actually got away with anything. That part is an assumption based on the fact I know he tried. I know he did not get away with it the time I accompanied her and she definitely never took up that advice from him.

    Based on the above do you think he did a screw her over in some way? At another time, with another product. Is that why he went to her funeral and turned up on her death bed? Fuel?

    Ah god this is so gross.

    1. Control. He wanted to ensure that there was no suspicion aimed at him, thus he attended the funeral where he would also gain fuel.

      I cannot add anything further (although there may be more) without knowing the school of narcissist he is.

      1. Thank you so much HG, although I do feel physically sick and want revenge on this person. I don’t know what school of N he is sadly, or I would have loved to know more.

        The first time I met him (when my friend asked me to accompany her), I knew I didn’t like him instantly. I had no clue about Ns back then but before he even opened his mouth and said anything I took a dislike to him. Like you could almost see him coil up in his own drool as he salivated over the prospect of tricking her.

        He was smarmy and sly. I know by and large these types will be. He sent chills down my spine even then.

        Since I’ve learned about Ns and the schools from you. It is only the greaters who give me chills, but I think that is probably because I know how cold an cunning they are rather than because of some kind of ESP. But back then I guess, I sensed he was not a kind man.

        thank you anyway. Obviously if I told that story to any of my friends, they would think it a little odd. But not suspect anything and instead probably believe (because he was a church goer) that he was just caring about his clients.

        So it feels good to get some perspective and validation from you. Thanks x

        1. Interesting alexissmith2016, that only the GN give you the chills. Fair call I guess given they are calculating.

          You must have felt relieved when your friend took your advise!

          1. Ah so relieved, but now quite sickened that because of his behaviour when she was dying and at her funeral, I know he got away with something, just don’t know what?

            I think the chills is probably more linked to the fact that perhaps with the Lessers and Mids (Whilst I can’t always work out exactly what they’re up to, thanks to HG I usually have a fair idea – plus, because it is by instinct, they actually believe they are doing things with good intent???? bizarre still but it takes the chill away lol). Greaters have some predictability but vast amounts of what they do is not. The greaters know what they are (this is probably the chilling bit), they do it all with intent rather than instinct and I only know a few – thank god!
            So the chill I experience is probably an emotional response linked to sound logic if that makes sense.

            Do you get any kind of chill when you encounter an N, Narc noob?

  5. sorry HG. i had problem with refreshing the page. i couldn’t see my comment then i sent it once again. now there are two of the same comments here. i didn’t want to invade

  6. Hello HG,

    Can you tell us what those fives rules are that you use in order to tell an unwitting narcissist what he or she is ? Because till now i only use two,and that is,1 whenever i feel like doing so. And 2 i have to be willing to discard them right after i told them.

  7. SMH,
    Up his hoover game…..this made me chuckle. Like he is being scored on it.
    And yes you are correct…married 2 times. Not sure why I married either one of them. Good things from both were my boys.
    I also always think/thought of myself as IPSS.. My understanding of IPSS versus DLS is the DLS would never be promoted to IPPS. Our “dates” were always at very crowded places near where we live or work. Nothing hidden. When we went to dinner a couple weeks ago, when he picked me up he seemed very anxious. He was picking me up a block from his house and having to drive out of the neighborhood in daylight. We had gone out before from my house but it was always in the middle of the day when everyone else was at work. He had just gotten off the train with his new CIPSS and the trains were running late. He said he was running late…which he does hate….and that was it. I let it go. First time I had ever seen him frazzled. I was surprised he even picked me up and didnt just tell me to meet him at the restaurant
    And now miss smartie pants, you say you can tell me exactly how I will convince myself to break NC. Tell away.
    Hope your trip is going well and you are staying out of trouble. I am off today for a couple of days. Word PRess doesnt like my phone and I am not dragging my computer with me. So I will “talk” over the weekend. I am back Saturday.

    1. Kim e, I got a boy from one of them too. A good thing indeed! I shouldn’t have married the second one.

      Funny that your narc goes out in public with you when you are a DLS. How does that work? MRN and I never went anywhere – he always came to my place. I don’t know if I was in line for promotion at any point but his behaviors suggested IPSS because I was tested a lot.

      You will break NC by convincing yourself that you can handle it because you are strong and have always been able to handle everything else.

      Oyster man couldn’t wait and emailed me this morning instead of waiting for me to email him. He “decided” we shouldn’t see each other again. In the first email he ever sent, he told me that he gets overly enthusiastic and involved very quickly, and it turns women off. He did exactly that and when I pushed back and tried to get him to dial it down a bit, he cut and ran. I have to laugh. Maybe he was a codependent – needs to be needed? But I am not a narc so his attention was not fuel for me.

      Hope you are enjoying your time away. I am also away but have my laptop with me (I don’t do narcsite on my phone either – or very rarely).

      1. HG
        Funny that your narc goes out in public with you when you are a DLS. How does that work? MRN and I never went anywhere – he always came to my place. I don’t

      2. HG..sorry…didnt mean to send this before without asking the question.
        SMH stated that her N never took her out in public where as mine never had an issue with it. We were described by you as DLS. Why would her N not take her out but mine would?
        Also you stated that FWB and Booty call were other names for DLS yet when you describe IPSS categories, DLS is by itself.
        Not questioning you. Just trying to grasp what the differences are.

        Thank you

        1. As I understand from the information you provided me, the narcissist took you out in public on the very few occasions you spent time together and it was just you and him, thus there was no integration with the rest of his world. You were compartmentalised in a world which was just you and him, separate from everything else, in the same way SMH was – that is the key factor.

          1. we spent too much time together in public – most of time hand in hand- . i guess the point is meeting with his circle, be knowin by others am i right?

          2. Ah, that makes sense, HG. I was way compartmentalized, so compartmentalized that I told MRN I was astonished by his compartmentalization abilities. But I know a lot of it was about control – he felt safe and we could relax in my flat. The one time someone saw him, he handled it very smoothly. I was under the impression that a DLS would be someone with whom the narc would not be seen in public because she would be not of equal social status, or something like that – not good enough. Am I way off? I never felt that way with MRN. We were social and intellectual equals. Also, I once asked you what married man would take his mistress out and parade her to his friends and family? They all compartmentalize in that situation.

            Another question – MRN once came over on a weekend to meet my (adult) son, who was staying with me at the time. Of course I had not told my son that MRN was married. But I was pretty astonished that MRN followed through. Did he want to see me so badly that he was willing to meet my son? Was he just curious? Was he seeing if I was candidate material? Why did he cross that boundary? I never could figure it out. It was right after that day that things blew up. To me it felt like we got too close and neither of us could handle it.

          3. We will do or say whatever is necessary in order to assert control and if that includes meeting your son, so be it. It may well have been part of the unconscious assessment of your suitability for candidate status, but I would need more information and context to establish that.

          4. Of course. In the end, it did not happen because my son was asleep the whole time MRN was there! Ha. I was relieved to be honest, because had they met, and then things blown up (which they did), I would have had to explain – my son is not all that interested but it would have been embarrassing. The way things played out, I did not need to say anything to my son, but I did tell MRN that he had put me in an awkward position.

            MRN was aware that my son and his three kids were at the same school at the same time – in different grades but lots of friends in common. Had he and my son met, this might also have come up in conversation. This made it especially dangerous and it would have breached all of MRN’s attempts at compartmentalization. That is why I think it must have been unconscious candidate testing or MRN just did not think of the possible consequences (maybe not as a mid-ranger).

        2. I used to be insulted I was a secret as well. Sure we’d go out every now and then but I was compartmentalized as well and it made me feel insulted. Now that I escaped… I consider it a blessing I was hidden. Who cares if he insulted me to his dumb friends that don’t even know me, or his stupid family who doesn’t know me. What do I care what people whom I’ll never meet think? I don’t.

          Being hidden is blessing. See it as good thing.

          1. empath007
            I dont see how they could smear a DLS. They would then have to admit that we existed and that would threaten the facade.
            Not to offend, but you sound very hurt that you were hidden. Dumb friends and stupid family lead me to believe you were/are very hurt that you were hidden.

          2. I was hurt at the time. Very. But a lot of that was me not thinking straight and had to do with my pride.

            I can have a fowl mouth when I want too, so that’s all that’s about. I do look down on people that can’t figure him out a bit.

            I’ve Been no contact for 15 months now so I truly am happy I was hidden. The only reasons I even still
            Think about him is because we work for the same company still… so I am always looking over my shoulder. I am planning on leaving but am looking for something else currently.

          3. I have read your thread about being hidden, in my case it was obviously meant to be like that. However, he took some liberties in front of our common friends and even of my husband while we were entangled; for example, he stayed in my house way after everyone left my birthday party with just my husband and me, talking and drinking, which obviously made me feel weird. He also sat next to me and my husband at a bar we went to with a group of friends and he kept drinking from my glass of wine, allegedly by mistake, instead of from his. I think he did all of this on purpose to assert his control and ownership of me. I honestly don’t care whether I was a DLS or an IPSS, but the fact he was triangulating me with another supply outside of his marriage and making us compete against each other while at times asking me if I ever wish our circumstances were different makes me think of the latter. But who cares. I wouldn’t fight for him anyway so I prefer it to stay as a secret, dirty but little.

          4. Ya he probably wanted to cause tension between a) yourself and your husband b) himself and his wife and c) you and the other IPSS…. oh the triangulation !! The fuel !! The “power” to make all these people angry 🤣 plus as an UL he was probably just generally more sloppy and anything in the name of fuel.

            You keep your empath. Forget that looser.

          5. He is so fucking entitled and grandiose -while being so rudimentary at the same time- that I was worried he was gonna make everything known for being so clumsy. My husband even told me once he didn’t like the bold sexual flirtation he kept with me on social media. He didn’t worry about anything or anyone. I kept telling him to be less obvious but he didn’t care. I’m sure now he and his wife have a million arguments even though she pretends to be cool.

          6. Lol. Well I like that your husband took notice. Shows he’s paying attention and perhaps a little protective? (I like that in a man)

            Can you tell I’m jealous of you btw? Don’t think I hide it well or even try 🤣🤣

            Where’s my Testrone driven empath already?!?!? Where! 🤣

          7. Empath007, too much testosterone that night. Narc constantly grabbing my glass, husband referring to me as “his wife” instead of my real name, and me sitting in between the two thinking I am not anyone’s property for fuck’s sake. You don’t want that, be it from a narc or from an empath. But yes, my husband knew I was attracted to narc and he didn’t say anything for a while even when we did a lot of things together as friends. If he found out what happened and how much I had to go through, I don’t doubt he would get in a fight with him. I don’t dream about that!

          8. Jealousy is like a fetish of mine (as immature as that may be) so that sort of scenario only turns me on. My narc would occasionally be jealous of other men’s advances in our work place and I loved it. I also enjoyed being jealous of other women… having a big argument… and then making love….. I don’t deny I may need therapy 🤣🤣

          9. Empath007, jealousy is my Achilles’ heel. My narc quickly found out that triangulation was the only tactic that really worked with me. I would have chewed the other women’s heads and spit them out if I had the opportunity back then. I have always been fortunate to get any person I set eyes on despite competition so this was a very painful experience for me. I know now that he used me to triangulate them too so it was like playing billiards with different balls, there’s no favorite ball, at some point some ball is gonna be used to hit another one. I am so so so so relieved I am not consumed by those negative feelings any longer. I lost weight, I lost sleep, I got up at 4 in the morning to check whether he and the other woman were chatting online. It was like walking on quicksands every step got me deeper into his shit. Fuck no, I don’t want to go back to that ever again. You’re not jealous of me, you are just hopeful that you can also get to meet a person that really has feelings and not a reflection of yours. And you will! Fuck narcs and their mirror games.

          10. Oh… I know alllll about loosing sleep at 4am and checking up on other women. Hell I’d even drive by his house when I suspected someone was there.

            Would I want that long term? No. Of course not. Of course it hurt me a lot. Which is why I left.

            But I have to admit there is something about that jealous arguing that I connect with. I just get turned on by it.

            But in the end the other girls can have him… and I’ve hit the point now where I see it as a win for me.

          11. Empath007, I just remembered that, if you cannot about your narc in November when you attend the conference, instead of looking him in the eyes, look at his forehead; it’s been proven to make people feel uncomfortable and insecure.

          12. I’m curious to see if it works, gonna try it today. On random people. Just in the name of science.