Come One, Come All


My kind need people. We do not like to admit it as the suggestion of reliance on somebody else brings with it connotations of weakness and this dents our sense of omnipotence. It is however an inescapable fact. We do not like it and indeed this is in part the thing which drives our devaluing behaviour. I need other people because I need to gather fuel from those people through their emotional responses to me. I am often asked and sometimes lambasted for it, whether I obtain fuel from my writing and interaction with those who comment on it, asking questions and advancing their own experiences and theories. I freely admit I do so but emphasise that since all of those who I interact with are remote strangers then in accordance with the fuel index, the amount of fuel that I receive is very low. Nevertheless, it is naturally welcome and I am far more content to receive it than not. The receipt of this fuel though is not the driving force behind why I write and share my experiences, observations and increasing awareness. The receipt of fuel is neither the key reason why I interact with the many people who take the time to comment and question me. I interact with my readers because I gain by exhibiting my works to them. I interact because I learn from my readers, by understanding their views, their responses and their desires. I interact because they can learn from me and the dissemination of my knowledge is a powerful sensation indeed. I interact because I find the questions posed often challenging, invariably interesting and stimulating. I interact because I am interested in the lives and experiences of those who have found themselves participating with me. I also often find them entertaining and humorous too. Through my writing and the almost daily interaction with these people I have also come to recognise that these people fall in to particular groups. I have observed this repeatedly and I wanted to share this observation with you. You may recognise people belonging to these groups and have your own views about that inclusion. You may indeed recognise which group you belong to and quite possibly further categorisations which have not yet occurred to me. I would be interested to know. So, what are these groups?

  1. The Angered

Admittedly not a large group, but there are those who present full of anger and hatred, either towards my kind and even me specifically even though we have never met. Of course, I am representative of my kind, albeit a superior version and therefore it is to be expected that I would take some flak for this. I understand how badly people have been hurt and abused by my kind and therefore this anger is entirely natural. I have no issue whatsoever in people telling me what a bastard I am, that they would like to punch me in the mouth or that I should be taken out and shot. If people wish to vent their spleen in such a fashion, they should feel free to do so. They may feel better about it and of course it is just fuel to me.

  1. The Confused

There are those who are completely bewildered by what has happened and this state persists for some time, despite the explanations that I provide and the clarity through which I articulate these explanations. That is not to suggest that these people are thick or stupid, far from it, but is in fact testament to just how confusing, disorientating and perplexing our behaviour can be. Many people in this group cannot fathom out how our kind can be as we are and moreover how we cannot know what we are. It is pleasing to watch as the understanding suddenly forms over time, as the pieces fit together and the whole narcissistic experience begins to make sense. I often find that it is when those people begin to realise that they have to adopt our perspective in order to gain understanding. That is often the breakthrough moment

  1. The Answer Seeker

This group embodies one of the fundamental traits of empathic people; the need to know and understand. Question after question is posed, usually based on their own experiences in order to assist them in fathoming out what type of narcissist this person became entangled with, why the narcissist did as he did and what can be expected to happen next. Occasionally, this group may pose questions which are hypothetical but in the main the repeated and valid asking of questions is premised on what has happened to them.

  1. The Sponge

This group comprises of Answer Seekers but goes beyond this. They wish to know and understand everything there is to know about the narcissistic experience. They need to understand what happened to them but also find considerable interest in the experience of others and then applying their new found knowledge to unravelling the mysteries of the tales from other people. This group cannot get enough of the knowledge and understanding, they wish to examine every facet of narcissism, whether it is from the victim’s perspective or that of the narcissist. They need to know why, how and what. These people soak up all this knowledge and do so with a healthy understanding of their tolerance to do so as they place understanding above emotional response.

  1. The Burnt Victim

This group consists of people who find the whole entanglement with the narcissist still very raw. They may not be confused as they know what they have been ensnared by and they are beginning to understand the essentials of what has happened and why. Moments come when the content is difficult to stomach, the wounds still raw and painful and this may result in occasional absences, yet, the desire to have those wounds heal and push through the pain with commendable bravery sees these people pressing on with their interaction and understanding, no matter how much it continues to hurt.

  1. The Narcissists

As one might expect, my work will attract those who are of my kind and those who perhaps are not quite narcissists but have strong traits in that regard. These people recognise what they are and are content to share this as well as learn more about themselves by reading the words of one of their own. Occasionally they bristle and raise their hackles, once in a while lashing out, leaving others in no doubt as to what they are, but invariably they recognise my arena as a place of knowledge and learning and are content to engage in that as the primary purpose.

  1. The Unwitting Narcissists

From time to time this very small group has a membership when one of our kind wanders by and repeatedly exhibits all the traits which demonstrate that they are one of our kind, but they do not see it. Indeed, their blame-shifting, projection and deflection are manifestly obvious, but not to them for they have no insight. It is not in accordance with the five rules for me to tell them what they are, but I always recognise my kind when they alight here and from time to time they do.

  1. The Introspectives

This group comprises those who wish to learn about the narcissistic experience, ask questions and soak up the knowledge but in doing so, the experience is as much learning about my kind as understanding what they are and why they became entangled or keep becoming entangled. These people see the benefit of beginning to understand themselves by understanding the behaviour of their tormentor and are keen to grasp what it is about them, their behaviour, their past and their characteristics which influences their choices.

  1. The Staters of the Obvious

This group, which is small, consists of those who seem to believe that they have to tell me what I am. I do not include those who advance an idea or theory in a respectful manner based on their own experience and understanding. It is evident when somebody is doing that and such a constructive approach is always welcomed. The Staters of the Obvious have a tendency to tell me what I already know, do so in a derogatory fashion and make it appear as if it is some major revelation to me. For instance, they may announce,

“Your kind are just all spoilt children and you will never be happy.”

Thanks for that. That is illuminating.

Or I am advised,

“You are just a fucking waste of space and karma will get you because you are empty and evil.”

Glad we cleared that up then.

It is of course fuel and many who engage in this do so not because they are angry but because they believe they understand what I am more than I do myself. They are incorrect. This often happens when someone comes across my material for the first time and races to such injudicious pronouncements without digesting more of my work which will soon reveal to them that my level of awareness is considerable. I do find that those individuals flare up and vanish very quickly when the bite they are hoping for does not come. It is easy to play with such people and I could amuse myself by doing so, working them up into a frenzy as they unwittingly realise they are pouring fuel in my direction but that is not a productive use of my time.

  1. On the Up

This group consists of those who are recovering and supplementing their recovery with additional knowledge and understanding. They have a clear direction of where they are going and in typical empathic style they wish to share their experiences and help others. This is not done in a bragging manner (see the group below) and it is not expressed so it is “all about them” but is rather done from the purpose of giving encouragement and inspiring others that there is a way forward and a path through the pain. This group are keen to detail constructively what has worked for them and what has not. Their recollections are often under-stated, modest and sensible.

  1. Point to Prove

By contrast to the above group, those members in this small group feel the need to repeatedly declare how much of a champion they are for surviving. Indeed, I understand the pride which must come to the fore after having suffered horrendously and then having moved forward, but the frequent need to shout this from the rooftops tends to suggest to me that the progress is not as great or a secure as they would like others to believe. Indeed, I often regard those in this group, as compared to those above, as being more in it for themselves and do it more to bash and bait my kind, rather than truly revel in the advancement of their own recovery and those of their fellow victims.

  1. The Weaponising Empath

This group is one of the larger, if not the largest group I find I am interacting with. It consists of people who realise that they have access to a unique resource which they can use repeatedly to help themselves by understanding. They know they can ask questions, read as much or as little as they require, they frame considered and respectful questions and do so in order to understand, to acquire knowledge, to defend themselves and to enable them to tackle the effects and influence of the narcissist or narcissists in their life. The members of this group recognise that they can gain far more by engaging with me than seeking to point score, but that does not mean they will necessarily accept everything that is stated with querying or even challenging it. They adopt an open-minded approach to the ongoing process that they find themselves a part of and are enthusiastic in being able to avail themselves of a rare and unusual source of knowledge. They are able to put to one side any distaste they may have at “fraternising with the enemy” by reason of their empathic nature (they recognise what has happened to my kind as well) and the fact they know they stand far more to gain by extracting knowledge and observation than by engaging in a bun fight. Many appear within this group from the start and others gravitate towards it during their interaction with me. It is a beneficial and rewarding group for its members and for me as well.

Do any of these groups seem familiar to you? Perhaps there are others I have missed. Perhaps you identify which one you belong to. I would be interested to read your observations.


96 thoughts on “Come One, Come All”

  1. #2 Confused
    I don’t think I will ever really understand this behaviour and I will always believe there is good in everyone. It’s compulsive.
    #12 Weaponized
    Working on it. I may not understand their behaviour but I’m starting to care less and I feel more empowered every day.

  2. I see myself currently in #8 – the Introspectives, trying to learn and understand as much about narcissism/narcissists in my life as about myself and my role/function in narcissistic dynamics both in childhood and as an adult. ‘Connecting the ‘dots’ – influences/imprints and then behaviours and choices of the past and present (work/private life) – is very uncomfortable and difficult at times and a process I avoided/run from for a long time but it is also interesting and eye-opening because so much that used to confuse/destabilise makes sense now and I find calm, strength and empowerment in that realisation/self-awareness. For me, introspection is an important step to more awareness and becoming ‘weaponised’.

  3. I also like to share my own view from living with a narc , escaping a narc , finding out he is a narc …and not just an alcoholic . Raising kids …with the help of the narcs money …finding my own way to secretly have my freedom in small doses ……., to raising empathic children ….who know what narcissism is first hand. I know HG has helped many and is helping the future of many. If I ever saw you HG in the real world ….I would be a quiet observer…. ..absorbing more , like a sponge .

  4. 1,2,3,4,5 and 12 hg that’s me love reading your pieces of work and now that have some knowledge of this world I am able to question my logic about things I can see narcs everywhere especially on t.v. movies etc. I also hear how people make excuses for the narcs as well it all makes perfect sense now…or does it? Lol

  5. I’m a weaponizing empath, immersing myself in this community of empaths and master narc, to better understand and prepare myself for the eventual jump-off… this ride is making me dizzy lol Also, to recognize any other narcs I may cross paths with, so that I don’t fall prey again.
    Thank you, HG, and everyone here, for giving me this space to linger and learn and share.

  6. Great piece, HG! As always, your ability to cut through and identify and categorize complex strand, phenomena, identities is impressive. (Makes me think you’re in an engineer by trade.) I could see my self in several of the categories, but which would change depending on my post-Narc evolution. The only thing I would add is that I did, and still do, come here when I miss my ex. Immediately after I left him, but even since, I let this be a place to safely experience him while healing at the same time. Like Narc Methadone. The Addicts category… just a suggestion.

  7. Loved this piece! An interesting new lens for the blog.

    All in all we are a happy little box of crayons and every day is a new door because we don’t know who will arrive to play with us.

  8. Good morning Mr Tudor, I would like to know when and why did you realize that you have to made a therapy. Thank you !

  9. FYC you give back every day! You are not a mutt, but if you were, I’m sure you would be quite adorable! 😘🙃

  10. I REALLY enjoyed this post HG. Thank you.

    I discovered your website as a 2. I have interchanged between 2,3,4 and 5, depending on where my emotional thinking vs logical thinking sits at that time.

    I am aiming to be a constant 12, and your posts and subsequent helpful comments by readers definitely help.

    But truth be told, I am hoping to be part of a group that you haven’t mentioned….

    #13 The Healed Empath

    This group has soaked up all your knowledge, and has moved on in such a way, that the world of the narcissist, and their victims is no longer in their mind. They have no need to gain anymore insight, or discuss the reasons for fuel, devaluation, disengagement or any other peculiarities that exist in an empath and narcissist dynamic.

    They are completely free.

    But I will miss you all when this day happens, to be sure.


  11. Based on the content I have read I started out
    #1 introspective, I know that the laws of attraction work for & against me based on what I throw out to the universe. That doesn’t mean every thing I do is my fault, I am not “victim” blaming, I am simply stating that the more I become self-aware & acknowledge my own weaknesses or tendencies the more I can affect change in my life.
    #2 I am on the up, this is calm and safe place for me to share my experiences of pain, sadness, healing and cathartically release, if it happens to help other victims Wonderful! …the reason I share is I find it very therapeutic, I find the words you write HG are clear, you have a very particular style which is soothing, somehow.
    #3 I am last but by far not least Weaponising I deal with many different types of people all day, Low/High ranking people who are very influential in my city, & “working class stiffs” I want to be able to spot a Narcissist from a mile away…I am still trying to ascertain if I was raised by one…or if I attracted one “accidentally” I use that word not to say I bear zero responsibility, but just to say that I was caught off guard, I was very confused for a long time. 🤷🏻‍♀️ I refuse (vehemently) To ever have the wool pulled over my eyes again….after all what is the best predictor of the future, it’s the past….if I don’t weaponise than how will I prevent this from happening again. I believe the way to shared happiness can only be attained by openness, and shared understanding of each other, one has to themselves first? I know how to be happy on my own, I wish to one day…when The timing is right, when I am ready to potentially find shared happiness that is founded in authenticity…this cannot happen with a Narcissist (they aren’t able to be real) therefore the only Narcissist I am willing to have in my life, is you HG…because you are real..even though there are many degrees of separation, a pseudonym, and zero photos…this is the most real a Narcissist has ever been with me ever. I will not be duped again…

  12. I can see myself in so many of those groups, a lot of it is because I have been here so long now. I started out finding HGs first post on Facebook, the writing captured me from the start, as I found myself visiting the site and learning more about the man behind the writing, I became angry and confused. Angry because he was a narcissist and after the hurt and embarrassment that I was still very raw from I wanted to lash out at him! Confused because people were commenting to him and asking him for help, I couldn’t understand any of this, why would they be asking him for help? Why would they trust a narcissist? I soon found out why. I was told once by one of my instructors that respect wasn’t just something you handed out to someone, it was something that person had to earn. Well HG has earned my respect over and over again, he has taught me more about not just narcissists but about myself. There is not a week that goes by that I do not learn something new from him, whether it be about narcissist s, myself, or even the correct spelling of a word, I learn something. This place has become my sanctuary, it is a place that I have finally found where I feel safe, where people from all walks of life gather to discuss the one thing we all have in common, the hurt and confusion caused by a narcissist. I’m pretty sure if some of us would of met outside of this blog, there are some who for what ever reason wouldn’t have ended up as friendly as we are. But here we are all the same. I was gone from the blog recently for eight days, I missed some of you so very much, you have become my blog family. I have found now that I want to be here not just to learn but to help others get through the horrible pain and confusion they have suffered. I want them to know they are not alone in this, that I and so many others just like me are here to help them. Finally all the emotions that I have had my whole life can be put to good use. I don’t know if this is a new grouping or if it is what happens after spending so much time with people you respect and care about very deeply? 😘🙃

    1. FM1T, This is so sweet and well said (no misspellings!). I think we all suffer from embarassment that we were ‘had’ because even if we went into it with eyes wide open we did not see the narcissism coming. One of the things that gets destroyed is trust so it is nice to see that you can trust HG and the rest of us now. That is a huge step in the healing process.

    2. FM1T
      Know that your intention in being here for others and the contributions you make are greatly appreciated by many. You may underestimate your own strength and influence but we see it.

      1. Thank you NA. For the first time in my life, I have found a place that I feel as though I belong. You have been a huge influence from the beginning NA, whether it be your great voice of logic, one of your zingers that come out of know where at just the right time, or you standing in front of someone protecting them from others as you have been doing your whole life. The respect I have you is unmeasurable my dear sister. Thank you NA for all that you do!😘😘😘🙃

  13. I’d like to think myself as part of the last group, but I admit there needs to be an added group for those of us who get drunk and silly.

    Bibi is boozing again. (I am actually not at the moment, lol.)

    But despite my sometimes silliness or strong opinions, I greatly appreciate and admire your work, HG, as well as all who comment.

    1. Dear est Bibi,
      Ummmmmmm …. my name says it all ….I’m lining up for your group and I’ll be your first member 🤣🍾…..I’m a bit silly 😜 Haha
      Luv Bubbles xx 😘

  14. HG maybe there is another group? The revenge seekers. That’s where I sit now. I started out as Confused, not knowing wtf that experience was all about. Moved through to The Burnt Victim as I began to understand, Truth Seeker (always been a trait I’d like to shake. The NEED to know why is a powerful driver, I’d love to be able to just accept things – ‘it is what it is’. Pfff not likely).
    So now I understand the what, why and how. But I’m incensed I was treated the way I was, and for so long (narc trait?) Questioning my own sanity, distrusting my instincts. Shamed and humiliated, made a mockery of.
    NO! I will learn, I will prepare and I will strike where it hurts most. Repeatedly. Damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead!
    Maybe I’m a narc too?
    I thank you HG for being the cliff barrier rather than the ambulance at the bottom. Your knowledge sharing has truly (literally!) been life saving. I teetered at the edge of that damn cliff, confused, humiliated and hurting bad. Anger has become my all consuming emotion now, along with the desire to strike back. With deadly force if I am capable. And I need this site to show me the most effective means to do that.
    I wish I could turn the other cheek, be the better person and walk off into the sunset with dignity and grace. Yeah, nah. That’s not me. I

    1. Jaya, It’s not me either. I think anger is healthy. But it’s not healthy to stay in that state forever. Eventually you will push through it, whether you are able to get revenge or not (and I am all for revenge – I don’t think that makes one a narc).

  15. I wrote a comment here but I don’t think it went through due my mistake. I have a revised answer after giving it more thought.

    I came here as an answer seeker. Then I saw the plethora of information here and the relevance of that information in my life so I became a weaponising empath. Then as I read the discussions here and all of the interesting information and insights I became a sponge learning about information that has nothing to do with my weaponisation such as narcissists in politics and in popular culture and even genes that predispose people to be empaths, narcissists and psychopaths. Sometimes I have been a part of ‘on the up’ wanting to share my experiences to give people something to relate to just in case there are people reading with similar experiences. There have been times (not a lot) where I was in a ‘point to prove’ category when I felt challenged and underestimated. I was never interested in picking a fight with HG as I didn’t see any point in doing it. I am just grateful.

  16. Hello, H.G.Tudor.
    From my perspective, I think I’ve seen myself in many of the groups. I think this is due to the process of acceptance and understanding of the subject matter. Because it is a process through which the victim must pass, she goes from denial, to acceptance, and finally to recovery. I omit the term healing, because I believe that the victims because of their empathic character and their infestation cannot be completely healed. But if recovered to maintain a healthy life, out of emotional thought and narcissistic our two greatest enemies.
    I think you already know me a little. And you know that my empathic traits prevent me from leaving things as they are, I need to close things. It’s true, that the closure in my case occurred, some time ago. As I told you. But a small piece of the puzzle resisted me. This one was quite hidden from me. And I had to find it. As you know, a few days ago I told you that I was watching movies about Ted Bundy. While I was watching them, she showed Ted Bundy’s sexual paraphilia. This made me wonder about my narcissist’s paraphilia, which moved my narcissist mainly in all his narcissistic behavior against me. And I finally found her. The image was enlightening, but also devastating. All the experiences and experiences lived with him during my period revolved around this paraphilia. The Truth was covered with a big lie so that this paraphilia would remain in space and time for more than a decade.
    I suppose I will need a little time to assimilate this great truth. I always thought that this kind of sadistic somatic narcissist and his actions against me was because of me. But I was only chosen as an essential part, to satisfy their sexual needs through their fetish paraphilia.
    Simply my life with him was simply that being a c…..
    It’s just hard to understand and understand that I was used in such a sadistic way. It is when you discover the whole of your life with the narcissist that the little trace of humanity of the Narcissist disappears. And like an onion, you go looking for and removing layers of skin and finally you discover that in the center of it there is nothing and very likely some kind of filthy paraphilia and sexual problems…..
    Maybe you H.G. disagree with me, but I’m talking about my specific case.

    1. J.G. Remember, Ted found the paraphernalia from his grandfather at an early age. He became addicted young and would look at bondage photos etc, and then became a young peeping Tom. It is also rumored that his Grandfather is his biological father. A possible different genetic problem. His grandfather was abusive and abused animals. Also, Bundy had class pain, also, and was wounded in that his mother was supposedly a `working woman` and worked while he was home, as a young boy. He wanted to be of a higher class, and constantly found out that his actual class station was violated over and over and fell lower and lower the more he found out about his family. He thought his mother was his sister for a very long time, and then he also found out that there is no father on his birth certificated. This wounded him, in his desire to be of higher class, tremendously. Then he found out his parents were his Grandparents, or adopted parents, something like that. This wounded him. He, within his own personality, suffered much low social class pain. However, he constantly tried to maintain a higher class image and stole to make sure he was dressed well, and had the right clothing, sports equipment, etc. Then the girlfriend he loved in college that was rich and high class beautiful and popular and he called her perfect for him, and his dream girl, dumped him, because she told him he lacked vision to follow through and was not ambitious. That dumping supposedly killed his empathy, if he still had any available to him, for good. So one can not classify all the manifestations of the pathos of Narcissists in the exact same. As the pathos is created in various manners. Different forms of wounding occurred, according to the personality of the child, so the pathos will be somewhat different, as well, and carried out differently, in some ways. Or, like HG says, “variations on the theme.“

  17. Sponge here. HG’s teachings even follow me in my dreams, e.g. being provoked by a narc (in a dream) and thinking I should not engage and starve them of fuel. NOT kidding.

  18. I am an Introspective with strong narcissistic traits. Your site, as well as Vaknin’s has helped me tremendously in understanding what I am, what my family is and how to proceed with my life in the future. It’s been a great resource and I have to add one of my guilty pleasures is to read the comments and to follow, in time, some of the commenters and see how their story unfolds. It’s really a show of its own. I do pitty empaths and codependents because my mother was one and lived a most unhappy life. I still feel sorry for her, it;s been a useless life, shou would have benefit of your site a lot…
    Many commenters remind me of her. I feel sorry for them, too. Especially those who keep talking about putting their faith in love, in being warm and kind and compassionate in their future lives aka they are waiting for the next narcissist to make them unhappy. It beats me how they can do it.
    To add to the list you made, I suggest the cathegory of victims who are sure they were victims precisely because they are good, warm and caring. they list what they did for their narcissist and are hurt because the narcissist did not honour their care and warmth and compassion. Not once they say they are sorry for being so easy giving of themselves. Not once do they question themselves as to why they accepted so little for the so much they had offered. These are people who fail to see how flawed they are and how little they value themselves. They see value in their weakness and they chose to see their weakness and naivete as a quality and keep lamenting of how they were wronged. It beats me how they do it, this is somehow very narcissistic but at 180 degrees.

    1. Q, I see a lot in your comments about ‘value,’ ‘giving and getting,’ and ‘worth.’ But for many of us, not everything in life is transactional. Human beings are much more complicated than buying something in a shop. I don’t think your worldview makes you a narc (maybe you are one, maybe not) but ours doesn’t make us stupid or naive empaths either.

    2. Q, I am a Co- Dependent and yes I would have benefited greatly from HG and his knowledge if he were around when I was younger. My Co/ dependency is something I have had since early childhood from the physical, mental, and sexual abuse I had suffered at that time. I don’t see my life as wasted however, Although I will admit there were and still are times I wonder why I was even born, which is not very often anymore and only when I let my ET corrupt my mind. As for the love
      devotees that you speak of that are on here, I believe strongly in the knowledge they are given from HG and others on here, for them not to give up on there true emotions is very commendable after the hurt some of them have gone through. I do not think they are waiting for another narcissist to come along however, I think in time and HGs knowledge they will learn to spot that narcissist and avoid them completely, saving all of there love, warmth, and compassion for someone who is normal and will give back to them what they so generously give. Some on here are very emotional and that emotional thinking is what caused them to stay and keep giving even though they were given nothing in return. They are not flawed, they just do not understand what they had become involved with, in there trusting, good and honest hearts and minds they cannot fathom an individual doing the things a narcissist does. They should not have to apologize for who they are and what they feel. That is one of the many reasons HGs work is so very important, here in this place and in his books, videos, and consults they can learn what they need to learn so that they will never be ensnared by a narcissist again! Thank you for your comments, at one time before I found this place and HG, your words would have hurt and I would have felt that you were correct in all that you said and never questioned or thought otherwise. Now I know that everyone is different and entitled to there opinion, and by keeping my ET under control I can look at things with an open mind and learn from it. I hope you stay and continue commenting.

      1. Foolme1time, just a couple of things that crossed my mind reading your comment. Firstly, there is something very childlike about you, which I find really sweet.
        Secondly, childhood abuse is the most hideous of all crimes and I admire you very much for having endured that. You are strong!!
        Codependency was your way of surviving and that’s OK. Just be aware of what your vulnerabilities are so you can protect yourself.

      2. FM1T
        Your comment shows compassion. It also shows your growth in being able to keep your ET under control to consider another viewpoint much different than your own might be, and even encourage further participation so that you might get something from it by being open. You rock.

        1. Thank you NA!😉 I am desperately trying to keep my ET under control, I find recently a deep struggle with in myself to do so. I have at this point a few options that I am looking at, one that I know ( even though it would upset me very much to follow through with) in time would work. I also have you to thank for the control that I have established up to this point. I have told you often how very much you have helped me and also how much I respect you. The logic and honesty that you show on here has helped guide me in that growth that you see. Just knowing that you see it means more to me then you will ever realize. If I do not take the time to try and understand a viewpoint that may be much different then my own, how will I ever make that separation between myself and them. The damage that was done to me as a child was not my fault, but continuing to allow that damage to control me for the rest of my life is my fault. Thank you NA for being that voice of reason and logic inside of mind as I struggle to keep moving forward. You my dear NA are the one that rocks! I love you! 💞

    3. Q. Lamenting is a stage in our growth. You are ignoring our other stages. You are ignoring our growth and our successes, some small successes and some great successes. If we were all so satisfied with our pain and if we all felt that we had nothing to learn and no need to grow, and if we all were so satisfied with this dynamic, we would not be on here. We would just be lying on a pile of wet tissues somewhere weeping in silence. Many of us have been silent for so long, for so many reasons, that if wailing, `woe is me,` is our first step in healing, let us wail. We found a place where someone listens to every word we say and a place where others understand us in all of our stages of growth. Even feeling pity for ourselves and self anger and self denial. There is no need to sell us short. We have seen enough of that. Too much of that, really.

      1. Precisely PSE! Healing is a journey. You can’t make an assumption in a person based on a few comments that you have read because it depends on where they are in their journeys.

        Q I have some idea of what you said about your mother. My husband have told me several times that his mom was always sad. He showed me the few pictures that he has of her and her face had a very unsatisfied and blank expression. It almost looks like her spirit was taken from her. She was married to his alcoholic father who treated her badly. And unfortunately she died young. Life is not always long. We don’t know when we will go. It’s best to leave a legacy of kindness, love and joy to the people around us who deserve it. Narcs are not worth our time.

        Btw, to be honest, I have never seen any posts here by any commenters who celebrated their weakness and naïveté. I think you were just imagining that.

    4. Q, there is no victim without a perpetrator. We are not flawed, they are. They are the ones that are underdeveloped and lack that wide range of feelings that all other humans, not just empaths, can experience and they cannot. Meanwhile, empaths, do extraordinarily good things for other people, can feel others’ feelings, can feel the power of nature, and some of us can even use the narcissistic traits to destroy the narcissist. I believe we are powerful people, and I believe the future belongs to empaths. Because like cancer cells, narcissists cannot take over and feed on themselves, whereas we, on the contrary, don’t need them or anybody to keep on existing. You are wrong in saying none of us regrets loving narcissists; I do feel sorry for having given my attention, my love, my friendship, to my narcissist but I didn’t know what he was. And like me, many of us in this blog have expressed the same feelings of regret, rage, shame. I’m not naive and I’m not a masochist. I was just ignorant. But not anymore. Ironically, it was a narcissist who taught us this, but empaths learn and get ready to fight. We are not weak.

    5. Q
      You say you have strong narcissistic traits (but you do not say you are a narcissist) but then say you pity empaths and codependents because your mother was one. Do you consider yourself a normal then?

      My interpretation of your comment (in reducing emotion) is:

      That you think there should another category for SOME (not all) who never accept their part in the involvement with the narcissist. That focusing all of the responsibility onto the narcissist will allow them to continue to be victimized in future. That they are somewhat flawed in their thinking (not as people) just as the narcissist is. That you consider it a weakness that people in this category espouse the goodness and traits of empaths but do not always value themselves enough to consider some introspection and establish boundaries so that they are not ensnared in future.

      Did I interpret that as you intended or am I mistaken? I ask because I am also highly narcissistic (but still an empath) and my use of logic or language has sometimes been misinterpreted due to people placing different emotion on my words than I intended. Some people confuse accepting some responsibility with blame. There is a big difference and unfortunately both wording and emotional thinking plays a large part in that.

  19. I started out #3 seeking answers and read for almost a year before making any comment. After reading about familial narcissists I worried I was a blind #7, but since I have massive empathy for others, I got past the fact that I have a couple familial narcissists. I learned more about some narcissistic traits of my own and realize it is ok to have some, so I moved on to number, #4. I remain a sponge for all I can learn here, not only about narcissism, but also about being an empath. HG and so many of you inspire me to discover more daily on so many interesting topics. Even my vocabulary has expanded due to HG and others. What a great group! Thank you all! I have massive gratitude hinted at in #10, and thankfully, I am weaponized and free, due to my education here, and now I sincerely desire to give back as mentioned in #12. So I guess I’m a mutt 😉 If I’m off base, I welcome being set straight!

    A funny side note, because of being a sponge, I was at a party a couple weeks ago and narcissism came up. I was quoting HG and the group asked for the link. So I might be spawning more sponges, lol 🧽😉

  20. I see myself in the last group as I feel so much stronger and empowered than when I found this blog; but I also would like to add the humor group: those who like to make fun of the situations in order to relief the tension and hard feelings. Never underestimate humor, because humor is therapeutic and it’s a sign of intelligence. I value your sense of humor and the one of those who show a comical side here as well, as it helps me cool off and remove the drama a little. And I often like to refer to my narc in comical terms because, well, just because he is laughable. I know it’s not the experience everyone has had, and I know a lot of people have gone through horrific experiences. But humor helps. Having said that, a friend told me a joke yesterday (it’s pretty cheesy but I loved it): Why did the narcissist cross the road? -He thought it was your boundaries 😎

    1. Sweetest Perfection, thank you so much for this! I think sometimes I really need to step back and laugh at the 3 years I was with my ex narc. It was an absolute joke from start to finish, and in moments of clarity, I would shake my head and think “what the actual fuck is going on here?!” It was comedy mixed up in parody mixed up in satire….. and ultimately tragedy….. ha!

      And I LOVE your joke! I started with strong boundaries. I ended with none. That asshole didn’t just cross the road…. he steamrolled right over it 🙂

    2. SP, You are absolutely right – the first thing I posted today was thanks for the morning laugh! And now I get another one. Priceless. That’s a great inside joke.

    3. Hi SP, Here’s some more cheese for you 😉
      “How many narcissists does it take to screw in a light bulb? None, they only use gaslighting.”

      “A narcissist was playing golf when a funeral procession passed by on the adjacent street. Seeing the hearse, he removed his cap and gave a nod. His fellow golfer said, ‘Wow! I am impressed, that was so nice of you to pay respect to a stranger, I never would have expected that from you.’ The narcissist replied, ‘That wasn’t a stranger, it was my wife.’”

      1. FYC, thanks for the jokes! 🤣 I didn’t know there were so many about narcissists!

    4. SweetestP. `Why did the narcissist cross the road? -He thought it was your boundaries 😎` Hahahaha! SweetestP, You just reminded me of this joke I heard: `If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck and looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck: it is a narcissist, because he heard you liked ducks!` LOL!!!

      1. Princess, yep! Hahaha mirroring is so obvious that sometimes I wish I could talk to the narc again just to drive him crazy, tell him that I love ducks so that he acted like one and then immediately switch: oh I was kidding! I actually HATE ducks 🤣

  21. HG
    You forgot The Seagulls.

    Fly in erratically and shit all over the place while squawking ”Mine, mine!” and then fuck off, never to be seen again. (Hopefully).

  22. I am the Burnt Introspective Sponge; I come for Tools. I am new, so I mostly tryyy to listen and read before asking questions (both the blog & comments). But there have been a couple of times (when prompted by the burnt part of me) that I have asked something. I try to be patient and read first, though😬 No matter the group, I really appreciate the comments, there are quite a few that have really helped me and I am thankful for the openness and willingness to share, it really ads to your blog.

    On the Up is the goal…someday. I dont usually comment a whole lot. There’s so much I dont know, so much to learn. It also takes energy I usually dont have. I was making good progress in recovering from a health condition. Then the narc came. Im struggling now…still, after a year. Im glad he doesnt know. He’s still poking around Fb trying to find out, though. (Its nice to be able to say somewhere that Im struggling. Chinese are not allowed to say such things out loud IRL).

    #9 cracks me up! As an ever brief thought, I wonder what it is that compels a person to spend precious time on something so seemingly purposeless… I chuckle for the nanosecond it takes me to scroll past🤣

    I liked this post, Mr. Tudor. It was interesting to read your thoughts about your blog– Ive wondered, in passing, what they were. Nice of you to share, also.

    1. Thank you, FM1T! You know you are too! Plus you are never in the ‘mean girls’ group :-).

      1. No need to thank me SMH, it was the truth. Have a great weekend sweetie! 😘🙃

  23. I have two questions:
    1. Can a narcissist take revenge on someone for not complimenting him and that they do not admire him, do not praise him, do not treat him in a special way? (for example, a manager takes revenge on an employee who does not treat him in a special way and does not admire him, he just comes and works, or in a group of friends, a person spends more time with other person than narcissist)
    2. If I understood well, love bombing is, among other things, for the person to pay back. If a person does not repay for some reason (for example, is not in love with the narcissist) then the narcissist may lose patience and attack or try to destroy the victim?
    (I think the answer to both questions is yes, but I prefer to make sure from the expert.).

  24. SMH: Oh my goodness!! I just saw this: `I hope that others can learn from my stories and examples, and from whatever advice I can provide, ` I just mentioned you as a person that I learned a lot from. This is happening. 🙂

    1. Thank you, PSE! I am happy to hear that. I didn’t name anyone because – too many! But I have loved my conversations with you. xo

  25. Dearest HG: I also like the input of the people that are readers on here that have worked and studied in various areas of the mental and social professions, and people that have dealt with an incredible number of situations with people of various disorders professionally and including their own families, like FYC and K and Claire and SMH and Mommypino and Kiki and Nunyabiz and many others ( I do not mean to leave anyone out of so many people on here), and I like some people that came on here, but sadly would not stay because they found they were lacking in what they thought they knew, and then they became angry and stalked out. I wish they would come back, and fight it out so to speak. But, maybe it is not the right time for them to see certain fallacies in their belief system. It is not for me to say. I appreciate the people that are friendly to me on here. It has been a respite, after warring with a clique of 4 people on my job for over 3 years. A lot of amazing and unbelievably good knowledge is on here. And I like that the material is written in a sort of artistic way that is easy to visualize and understand. And, when my eyes are tired, I just go to your audio. HG, I know you value your intellect, but you are Quite Artistic, I hope you know. Anyway, I do not know what category I fall in on the above list, though. And, I do not want to guess. I`ve had enough guessing the pass 3 years to last a lifetime. And I am not joking.

    1. Thank you PrincessSuperEmpath, I always enjoy your stories and insights. I’m glad that we provide each other respite from the narc dynamics we have all been entangled in. I learn so much here from HG and all of you. 💕

    2. Thank you kindly, PSE. If I may, I would like to add HG, the master of all sharing here, and Narc Angel to your list. NA has endured much and remains so strong and stays here to pay it forward and shares her quick wit and humor too.

      We don’t get to choose our families, but we do get to choose everything else in life. I am grateful for the opportunity to learn and share and be FREE’d. I’m so glad you found your respite here and I appreciate your contributions as well.

  26. This is really measured, thorough and fair, HG. It also shows that we are not just an undifferentiated mass to you. You might not know or care about us as individuals but neither are we entirely interchangeable, which I find very interesting. You are truly a people person in a very odd way :).

    I can see myself in several groups – including the unpleasant ones – but mostly I believe that I am now a weaponised empath, which was what I wanted to be when I arrived, though I did not know what to call it then. I cannot profess to understand everything and nor have I really been tested, which may mean that I am less secure than I feel, but this rare and unusual source of knowledge that you have provided by allowing us to pick your brain, has made it possible for me to feel normal again, which was my goal.

    I hope that others can learn from my stories and examples, and from whatever advice I can provide, but mostly I stay out of intellectual curiosity and for the fantastic company. You have really managed to gather together here a lot of really smart and interesting people. Not ever blogger can say that.

      1. Aw thanks SP. I didn’t name anyone because there are too many but of course you are part of that fantastic company as well!

        I noticed that you said you are a Taurus. So am I! That’s definitely where our resilience (also known as bullheadedness) comes from. MRN was an Aquarius. Both fixed signs and a terrible combination. I once told him that he was in the world but I was of the world. He floated above everything while I dug in.

        But who cares about him? This post is for us.

        1. What a coincidence, fellow Taurean! I wonder what sign HG is (apart from a warning one).

          1. Virgos and Taurus get along perfectly well. Just sayin’. But I knew that already, we have music tastes and readings in common.

          2. Oh yes, I always got on quite well with Virgos. But I would have thought that HG would be a Leo, King of the Jungle 🙂

          3. SMH, I had the same thought, always the spotlight 🦁

    1. “It also shows that we are not just an undifferentiated mass to you. You might not know or care about us as individuals but neither are we entirely interchangeable, which I find very interesting. You are truly a people person in a very odd way :).”

      I second that SMH.

  27. No crossover between groups? I feel like I belong, in some way, or have belonged at one stage of my ill-fated odyssey, to each of the groups mentioned (save the Narcissists and the Unwitting Narcissists).Does that then make for yet another group? Burned, vengeful, desperate to understand everything, obsessed and stockpiling ammo while still dumb, and hopelessly deluded…

      1. NarcAngel
        I’ve never really been a group person, more of a loner. I appreciate the value of solitude vey much. The reason I am here is to increase my understanding of the narcissistic/psychopathic mindset in order to increase my overall understanding of how the world works and the general human condition. Psychology fascinates me, of all types of people. I have never had any type of a relationship with a narcissist, so have no personal experience to share. I am simply a seeker of truth and that’s what drives me. I get pleasure from fitting together this big puzzle known as life and how it works. I am simply wanting to fit a few more pieces into the jigsaw to flesh out the details.

        1. Evilmuskhat
          Thank you for offering a little bit about yourself and your reason for being here. You can imagine that when someone shows up using a serial killer as their avatar and saying he is their favourite, that it can raise questions, and possibly reluctance in others about interacting with that person.

    1. Because you are special, Ted! Sorry couldn’t resist the contrarian lure. Perhaps, you are suffering from terminal uniqueness!

    2. HG, This is really good. You write about the empath often but aside from interactions through comments you haven’t written much information about your readers. I enjoyed your perspective alot. I know you told Getting There that we don’t jump from category to category daily but I feel like I’ve been in most of these categories at some point in my learning and recovery. Is this possible?

    3. That’s because you’ve had 2K volts of electricity course throughout your body, Ted. Anyone would feel left out afterwards.

      1. Bibi, Claire and FM1T, Thanks for my first laugh of the morning. I forgot to say that I stay here for the humour too.

        Evil, it looks like muskhat love!

        1. SMH, glad to have been of service. I love this blog for the same reasons!

          HG is damn Great(er), but we are damn funny!

    4. Evil, Perhaps you just have a man crush on HG? Lol. I’m just teasing you! You are here and maybe for now that is important enough? As time goes by you will see the group or groups that you belong to. 😉🙃

  28. Unless a reader says “I am a narcissist,” I question whether I will ever be able to identify a commentator in that grouping.
    Can we go from one group to another and then back on a daily basis?

      1. Thank you for that clarification, HG!
        Approximately how many comments from a commentator do you need to see before you know to which grouping they belong?

          1. Thank you, HG!
            I understand that content says a lot. While someone may say “I am a narcissist,” they may not actually be in that grouping which would come out in the comments.

            Personally I think it is hard for me to narrow down to one group as I have been on and off the merry-go- round multiple times since finding you and commenting.

      2. Not on a daily basis, but can we change groups during our journey of learning here even though not on a daily basis but more as part of our evolution while we are acquiring more knowledge here?

        1. Thank you for honouring us with this article HG.

          I feel ‘forever on the up’. ‘Weaponised’ as a word doesn’t resonate with me. I am aware, but not at war (I hope).

        2. Hi, mommypino.
          HG did confirm in a comment above that we can evolve.
          I feel like I ping pong, and at many times daily, between groups. I have a narcissist ex husband I maintain constant contact with; I am on and off communicating with the one that I got involved with next; I am constantly connecting with narcissists in other areas of my life. I come to this site or contact HG a lot so I assume that my comments are as ping pong as I feel.
          I do feel bad that I caused so much confusion using “daily.” I’m sorry!

          1. Oh no Getting There, don’t feel bad. I totally understand you as I also sometimes change a lot. And I feel that it depends on where we are in our healing process. It is definitely challenging for you because you are forced to stay in contact with various narcs in your life so I can totally understand the ping pong feeling as they can really affect our moods drastically especially with the roller coaster experience that we normally have shared with them in the past when we were in the thick of the dynamic. Thank you for adding the clarification though because your explanation made perfect sense.

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