Save The Children



If there is one thing which will often scupper an attempt to escape our clutches, it is the existence of children. On the one hand the existence of children created by you and our kind often results in you continuing to endure the relationship for the sake of the children rather than separate. On the other hand, even if you do decide that it is better to separate than stay with our kind, you are rarely able to truly escape because of the shared connection that exists because of the children. Even though you wish to escape the roller coaster existence of being with our kind, as an empathic person you behave fairly and recognise that the children should see their other parent and thus you either make provision or allow for contact to continue between our kind and the children which in turn means that there must inevitably remain contact between you and us. You may however take the draconian step of deciding that it is in the best interests of the children to have no contact with the narcissistic (although usually you only realise the other parent is abusive rather than narcissistic at this juncture) parent and cut all contact off. This then results in our kind turning to formal means through the courts to establish contact with the child or children again.

Your concerns in respect of the involvement of our kind in the raising of children cover numerous factors.

  1. You are concerned that our behaviour will affect the children so that they in turn become narcissists;
  2. You are worried that our behaviour leads to the children witnessing abusive behaviour towards you which will upset the children;
  3. You are concerned that our behaviour will lead to the children not receiving a stable and nurturing upbringing;
  4. You are worried that the children will be used as pawns between you and us and adversely influence so they are turned against you;
  5. You are concerned by our failing to provide emotional and financial support which will in turn impact on the children; and
  6. You are worried that our behaviours will effectively spoil what should be happy moments in childhood.

These, along with others, are legitimate concerns. It becomes especially difficult for you when you find that you face a battle between doing what is right for a child even though this may clash with what they want. They want to spend time with us but you see such time as toxic and having an influence on the child (who as a child cannot see or comprehend what is happening) which is at best unhelpful and at worst downright damaging. How do you deal with a situation where you need to do what is right and best for a child, even though they will not see this at the time? First of all, what must you understand about our attitude towards children and parenting?

  1. Children are regarded as appliances by us. There is no distinction made for the fact that they are children nor that we are their parent. We see children as appliances and devices which are extension of ourselves and therefore there to do our bidding. You should never be under any illusion that a narcissistic parent loves the child. Do not be fooled into thinking that any benign act exhibited by our kind is a manifestation of love towards a child. It is not;
  2. This pervading mind set means that children will be used in order to gather fuel. This will be done directly by obtaining fuel from them. Initially this will manifest as wanting to spoil them when we have time with them so that their positive responses to this will provide us with positive fuel. We will upset, anger and frustrate children in addition to draw negative fuel as and when it is deemed appropriate. This is not done because the positive fuel has become stale (as is the case when devaluation occurs in the context of an intimate partner primary source) but is an adjunct of wanting to achieve some other aim. The two most popular aims are control and triangulation. We will provoke a negative fuel response from children in order to exert control over them, for instance, taking a toy away or forbidding them to do something that they enjoy such as watching a certain television programme or being allowed some sweets. This reinforces our control. A child is no different from any other appliance and must be subjected to our control. This control is not exerted for the benefit of the child, for instance, stopping the child from eating sweets every day because it is unhealthy, but is only done so we can establish control. In terms of triangulation, the negative emotional response will be achieved for the purposes of triangulating you. For instance, we may suggest to the child that mummy does not love the child so it becomes upset. We only care about the reaction, not the well-being of the child. We may say that the child cannot do something on your instruction, in order to both upset the child and thus gain negative fuel and at the same time smear you through this triangulation. Thus, when negative fuel is sought from a child it arises in conjunction with the desire to control and/or to triangulate.
  3. The traits and achievements of the child are up for grabs in the same way that we steal and acquire traits from adults in order to furnish our construct and make ourselves look even more appealing. Our sense of entitlement is such that the child has only won the race, come top of the class, swum that distance, secured a place on a vacation scheme as a consequence of our brilliance. We will remind you, the child and third parties that this is the case. Repeatedly.
  4. We will smear and brief against you at every available opportunity. Irrespective of the reasons why the relationship between you and us ended, we will not rise above the desire for smearing for the sake of the children. If there is an opportunity to take a pot shot at you, it will be taken. The needs of the children do not ever come before our needs. Thus if they are upset by what we say about you, we receive fuel and do not care how it affects them. If they begin to dislike you because we suggest you are too strict, we will not counter that but rather we will cultivate this position to our advantage.
  5. Just like you, children can cause criticism to us. Rather than soak it up as a mature, well-adjusted parent would, we will lash out when there is a perceived or actual criticism of us delivered by the words and/or actions of the child. This will as ever result in the ignition of fury and the manifestation of heated fury or cold fury. We will sulk with a child, turn away from them if they want support and/or shout at them. The fact they are a child is meaningless to us. The fact we as a parent owe obligations to them to behave in a mature and responsible fashion to them does not matter because our needs come first.
  6. We have no sense of responsibility or obligation to children. A lesser narcissist will see no need to maintain maintenance payments and will be content not to see work. A greater may well make such payments, not because he cares about the children but it is done to show to everybody else how generous he is and also to make you look bad if your financial contributions are not as substantial. The payment or otherwise of financial support will be used as a carrot and stick against you throughout the duration of childhood. We will only become involved in the lives of the children if we regard there as being some kind of benefit to us. Their emotional needs, education, safety etc. are irrelevant to us. We will attend a school performance not to show support to the child so they feel happy, but to show to other parents that we apparently love and support the child, so we gain fuel and infuriate you. We regard obligations as beneath us, we have no sense of accountability, our sense of entitlement means we can do as we please, our lack of guilt or conscience means there is no mechanism causing us to adopt an alternative stance.
  7. Understand that children are pawns which will ALWAYS be used to our advantage. Whether it is to bind you to us during the golden period, to make us look good to others, to draw fuel, to exert control, to triangulate, to perpetuate abuse and so forth, our interactions with our children are governed by our needs. In the same way that our interactions with you as intimate partner, or our involvement with an inner circle friend, or our dealing with a stranger are all governed by our needs first, the same is applicable to children.
  8. Attempting to curtail our involvement with the children is seen as a criticism to us, irrespective of how morally and factually correct your action may be. That is irrelevant to us. We will use the court system for our purposes. We do not wish to spend time with our children for their sake, but instead it is for our sake. We may find it boring having them but if we know the fact they stay with us one night a week upsets and angers you, we will do it in order to draw this fuel from you and therefore we will use the court system to fight. It is not a fight for the benefit of the children. It is a fight for the maintenance of our needs – fuel, control, triangulation etc.

With this mind set of ours now apparent in our interactions with you and the children, how do you deal with us?

  1. Minimise the interaction you have with us. Establish a system for messages to be sent by e-mail or text. If this is deviated from by a telephone call, do not take the call but allow voice mail to pick up the call and then you can establish how best to respond thereafter and you will not provide fuel by being tricked into answering a call. If possible, prevent any face to face contact between you and us concerning the children. We draw the most fuel from seeing your emotional reactions face to face. Remove this (where practical) and you are denying us fuel. For instance, utilise the assistance of other family members or friends for the handover of the children until such an age as when they can use transport or walk between venues safely.
  2. Ensure all communications are to the point, business-like and contain no emotion. This again denies us fuel. Establish a five-minute rule so that you never immediately respond to our communications (when you are more likely to do so in an emotional fashion as we try to provoke you). If five minutes is too short, extend the time.
  3. By denying us fuel we will (initially) try to provoke you in different ways concerning arrangements and interaction with the children. Weather that storm and because we must obtain fuel we will have to seek it elsewhere. You are not a viable source so we will eventually look to obtain fuel from you less and less. You will also eventually notice that this manifests by us losing interest in the children. Remember, we are not interested in the children per se but how they as appliances can serve us.
  4. You will face an ongoing battle between your influence and our influence. This is deliberate as it is used to provoke you into confronting us about what we say about you, what we say to the children and what we do with them. We want you to engage. You must resist the need to do so. Remember, you will not make us change. We will not listen to you. We want to control you and draw fuel from you. We use the children to achieve this. Accordingly, if the children comment that we are making disparaging comments about you: –
  5. Do not confront us about the issue, it is futile;
  6. Do not seek to influence the view of the child by saying “Dad is a bad person” this will trouble the child and the response will be conveyed to us which will secure Thought Fuel for us and also provide us with further ammunition to use against you for your comment. Instead, move on to discussing something else  and the child is likely to forget about the comment. If the child persists in wanting to discuss the matter, then explain that Dad does things differently to you and then move on. Provide reassurance and listen to the child but do not, however tempting it may be, do or say anything disparaging as this plays into our hands. Your role is to maintain a positive influence for your children as often as you are able. By doing this (and starving us of fuel so the interaction will lessen) your positive influence will progressively outweigh our negative influence. The more you expose your children to a positive influence and avoid walking into our traps and playing into our hands, you will tip the balance so that they will, through the effluxion of time and exposure to this positive influence flourish under it and make their own minds up.
  7. In a similar fashion to how you must deal with a smear campaign, do not tell the children what to think, but allow them to make up their own minds. This will be difficult at first and you will no doubt find yourself on the receiving end of hurtful and challenging behaviour. Keep in mind that this is our influence (not what the child really thinks) and that as you weather the storm, the effects of your positive influence will eventually manifest. As the children become older you can present them with independent evidence of behaviour (not just hearsay and say so) so they can evaluate this for themselves and make their own minds-up. Like third parties, children do not want to be involved in a conflict between two people and they do not want to be told what to do. Cater for this and you will minimise disruption and increase your positive influence.
  8. Your approach is one of ensuring the “light side” overcomes the “dark side”. This can only be achieved by repeated reinforcement of positive behaviour and influence. If you engage in behaviours similar to ours, you enter onto our home turf and you will not only encourage us to keep going with our behaviours but you will find there is a negative outcome for both you and the children.
  9. If our behaviour is serious in terms of impact on the children – for instance violence or neglect – involve the relevant authorities. You will not be able to cause us to recognise we have done anything wrong because we either do not recognise that we have or we will not admit it for the purposes of maintaining control.
  10. If you regard it as appropriate, save messages and e-mails which exhibit our behaviour and allow the child access to them when an adult. This is again the presentation of independent evidence when they are in a position to make their own minds up. You must not engage in a popularity contest or sling mud; you will lose as this is playing into our hands.
  11. If you find yourself having to engage with us through the court system, ensure those representing you are familiar with our kind. Rely on independent evidence as much as possible rather than “he said, she said”. Recognise that we are experts at duping people and our lawyers, your lawyers, psychologists, court officials and judges can just as easily be duped. If a hearing does not go your way, resist the urge to lash out at us – it is of course just fuel – and instead continue to adopt a positive approach towards your children. That must always be your focus. We want you to engage with us and we will use children and the court system to provoke you to do this. Fail to engage and you take away much of our power.

It is hard. A narcissistic parent is a fact. We will not go away so long as we are getting what we want or believe we can do so. Prevent us from getting what we want, demonstrate to us that we are unlikely to get what we want and we will turn our attention elsewhere. This will then allow your positive influence to have an even greater bearing on the children and undo any harmful effects from our toxic influence. You will face challenges but by trying to address our behaviour, cater for it and pander to it, you will not succeed in protecting your children. I have seen this first hand.

48 thoughts on “Save The Children

  1. Chase W❤️ says:

    This is a topic that isn’t openly discussed, which it should be! Thank you for the thoughts I agree with how our parents actions and example can and most likely will affect us as children, both good and not so good. I have really enjoyed this post.

  2. kaydiva3 says:

    HG, is it possible for parents who are both empaths to raise a narcissist?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Yes, albeit unlikely.

  3. myriflemyponynme says:

    Thank you, Sir. A few months ago, I started my Journey wanting to make sense of what I thought was a tumultuous yet strange encounter that lasted eighteen years. Didn’t even look for answers related to personality disorders. Only regular divorce resources.Three months after divorce was final – 7 months quick and seemingly perfect- truth hit the fan ! All along the divorce proceedings, our ten years old daughter kept telling me not to change my mind, not to give in to his “I love you”…
    The straw that broke the camel’s back was his “use” of our daughter. How stupid of me!.. I thought that dust had settled, that we would co-parent easily… Who does use his own child for years while married to bait single mother colleagues ? Never heard of! It took that to aknowledge abuse for what it was…
    I typed all the words that came into my mind “punishment, doormat,drained, lonely pregnancy, crazy, emptiness, coldness, envy …” and found your website and others. Yours is brutal. I am ashamed to write that even if your work resonated deeply and ad nauseam with my experience, I kept the lines opened trying to mend things between him and her. Thinking that if she had no relationship with him, she would later try to find him in every other man in her life. I didn”t want her to have “daddy issues”.
    It was only after reading your article “Save The Children” that I stopped trying to convince my child to give him a chance. Cut the silly “he is your father, what he did to me is Nothing of your concern” whenever she told me “I Don’t want to have anything to do with that man, he is not a father”. I shifted my perspectives and Went all her way for once.
    For the record, Narcissist’s gaslighting and the full arsenal of manipulation tricks apply to their own children. I respect my child, her choice and I deal every other day with bits of resurging memories, her guilt and her saying “I could see it but couldn’t Believe a dad would be like that”. Raising a child alone is not difficult when you admit to yourself that you have been doing it from the very beginning anyway.

    1. MommyPino says:

      Myriflemyponyandme, I’m happy for you that you found HG’s works which helped you. I think more than not having a dad in one’s life, having a dad who treats you and your mom with disrespect and seeing your mom allow that can be more damaging. Your daughter will see that you are not allowing it anymore and she will be able to see that women can be independent and have the ability to live a happy and meaningful life without a man in their lives. And if she ever finds a man that she loves, she will not be with him because she needs him but because he will add to her life, a complement and not an essential part that she can’t live without. You are setting a good example to her by not allowing anybody or anything to compromise yours and her self worth and welfare. I also want to add that I admire your daughter’s strength at such a young age. I wish you all the best and I totally think that you are on the right path.

      1. myriflemyponynme says:

        Thank you MommyPino ! As odd as it may seem, we should all consider ourselves happy and lucky to have found HG’s works. His groundwork and deliveries are colossal.

        My daughter feels guilty and tends to be overprotecting towards “mama”. I keep on beak pushing her to stay in her preteen place and to enjoy it. She is more than strong, she is an honest, sensible and intelligent 11 and a half girl who stands her ground. Hoovered every day through her cell phone – a divorce agreement to stay in touch he is paying for- she doesn’t answer his voice calls, has a strict “nope” texting Policy to his offers and even erased “papa” from her repertory. Good instincts. I used to tell her it was wrong and now, that I am Learning, I Don’t comment on it anymore. He is her father not mine, after all.

        1. MommyPino says:

          It sounds like you are very fortunate to have her as your daughter. She’s wise beyond her years and she loves you very much. 💕

  4. Lorelei: I am so mystified by Melania. I like her, though. However, she is less stylish now. There is something almost militaristic about some of her clothing. She now has an: I am pleasant, but I will kill you sort of style. lol. She definitely knew what The Donald was about before she married him. And she was taking those photos that could have gone more down the wrong road, before he stepped into the picture. 1) The only thing that I can think of is that she may be a normal or an empath combined with being a Golddigger. I was reading in HG Tudor`s book, Sitting Target, today, that some Narcissists males are not against Golddigger females, because the finances is the key to binding these women to them. And once the women become bound due to having this financial need met, these women are reluctant to lose all that, and so they will endure the devaluations longer. 2) Or perhaps it is a Bill and Hillary sort of double-Narcissists situation? I am still not sure how those 2 narcissists entangle together? Hillary gets fuel from the Primary Aims more than she gets fuel from Bill? And what about Bill? The same? The Primary Aims are the fuel source, and they both feel the same way, that they can obtain the Primary Aims best together, and that is their preferred fuel source? The Primary Aims? Am I stumbling in the dark here? What does Bill get from N. Hillary? And what does Hillary get from N. Bill??? Do they even like each other?


  6. Me says:

    I couldn’t save the children. They are not mine. Took a long time to accept that the children would meet women after women after me. That they would be exposed to the betrayal when we can no longer be in contact or care due to the terrible narcissist. They are damaged for life… so am I. They are not mine and nothing will save them from their horrible father. I saved my child from the dysfunctional family we pretended to be. My child is free, happy and have to loving parents. His children are destined to be abused by two horrible parents.
    Sorry .. I tried but it almost killed me. I gave up but often think of the poor children I left behind.

  7. Lorelei says:

    Had you written nothing else ever and I only listened to one thing this has been extremely beneficial.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you and you are welcome.

  8. Jessj says:

    Thank you HG. That was extremely helpful. Glad to see a piece of your art regarding coparenting. Really helpful!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome. Take a look at the Co Parent Assistance Package

  9. WokeAF says:

    First time I’ve read this since the realization .

    – buying presents for the child that the child has a little interest in but HE wants to play with ( remote control helicopter etc) until the batteries go dead the first time Or it gets stuck in a tree – and then no attempt made to repair or replace batteries .

    – having a political discussion with his adult daughter (the golden child) and becoming so inflamed that she dislikes Trump that he berates her to the point of tears and an anxiety attack // then refuses to apologize or comfort her

    – disappears for months with no communication

    – gives promises as presents, and then doesn’t fulfill them

    The list goes on .

    Is this a big common thing for lesser narcissists to be Trump supporters ?! Like what the fuck

    1. MB says:

      WokeAF, I know an upper lesser that supports Trump vehemently too. He uses political discussions in the way that you describe. He knows that Trump is an inflammatory topic so it is therefore one of his favorites to work into as many conversations as he can. Any disparaging remark regarding Trump seems to be taken as an affront to himself.

      1. Lorelei says:

        MB—Trump is a bit of a secret for non-narcissists that like to vote Republican. Everyone keeps their mouth shut because he’s embarrassing!

        1. MB says:

          Lorelei, he does dumb shit. Like retweeting insinuations of conspiracy surrounding Epstein’s death in prison. Dude let’s at least wait until the body is cold please before we start deflecting and blame shifting. Surely there is some kind of injunction that could be enacted to revoke his twitterings!Republican, Democrat, Independent, Canine, Equine or Feline…he’s an embarrassment to The Nation*


          1. Lorelei says:

            Obama was a much classier narcissist MB. He isn’t attractive at all but has just enough
            polish to be do-able. I’d almost rather let R Kelley pee on me than screw Trump. Almost. The refreshing thing about the Kelley guy is that he’s too dumb to tweet because he can’t read.

          2. MB says:

            Lorelei, I don’t give a rat’s ass about politics so nothing I say is politically biased. Obama was classy. Reagan was classy. Clinton was a decent President regardless of what may have happened under his desk. GHW Bush was a class act but nowhere near as classy as Barbara. Dubyah came off as goofy. He always looked as if he was trying to hold back a laugh. I could never take him seriously. Trump? He opens his mouth and stupid comes out. But I can’t say he hasn’t been a decent President as far as Presidents go. Just embarrassing as he is so uncouth.

            As far as “doing” any of them. I’ve really never thought about them in that way. If I was ever forced to though, I’d def find out once and for all if that animal on Trump’s head is real or not! I’d also be a bit curious to see if he’s orange everywhere!!

          3. Lorelei says:

            How does Melanie do it MB? How? Just why??

          4. MB says:

            Lorelei, she must have a strong stomach! Or maybe orange is her favorite color? He’s probably got her on a prescribed schedule to attend to him.

          5. Lorelei says:

            MB—I can’t imagine. Truly.

          6. Lorelei says:

            MB—I’m ecstatic and beyond words enlightened. I just shopped. I found “taco plates”—-they have built in taco stands and sides that holds refried beans and rice. It’s the product that will change my life!! I have also been invited to climb Keyhole Mountain in Colorado! Narcissist free and killing it.

          7. Lorelei says:

            By the way—I sound rather crass. I don’t talk like this in my life. Although, I did get kicked out of a Facebook divorce support group last year for saying white trash.

          8. MB says:

            Lorelei, the “white trash” comment must have hit to close to the trailer park for the admin 😂

          9. Lorelei says:

            They can fuck off in Facebook world. HG won’t kick me out for it. I wasn’t lying.

          10. FoolMe1Time says:

            Oh Lorelei, you are such a rebel! Hahaha! 😘💞

          11. Lorelei says:

            Oh I’m on a roll.. I’ve been passive aggressive twice in 24 hours on purpose and it was delicious. One now a wounded mid range fat ass narcissist and I’m going to bat her around like a cat and mouse game over the coming year. Long story but delicious. She used to be my “nanny” and did her little rudimentary smear shit along with inexcusable other crap and I’m going to relish ignoring her at this dance studio all year. She looked at me today and I acted like I didn’t recognize her. Just a slam dunk because I could tell it hit like bricks. She also looked like shit and I looked like I could go to a prom. (New hair device)

          12. kel2day says:

            I don’t see O’Bama as a narcissist. Sam Vankin said he was based on how many times he said “I” in a speech. “I” think that’s a bad analysis. Everyone just goes along with it because someone said so. Some will say he’s so charismatic that he’s got to be. I see poorly based speculation, not clear hard evidence. The man playing with the baby on the Oval Room floor with a big smile on his face- not in front of news cameras- but just a private moment captured. I don’t see grandiosity- in fact that always bothered me that he didn’t speak up and give himself more kudos for pulling us out of a recession, killing Bin Laden, saving motor companies, environmental efforts and more. He gave his wife credit all the time, and he’s not a womanizer.

          13. HG Tudor says:

            He is a narcissist and it is nothing to do with the number of times he said “I”.

        2. WokeAF says:

          What I’m trying to figure out is what did Obama‘s home life look like? Was he the kind of narcissist that could keep the home life intact like Ted Bundy? What about the wife?! Is she one?

          1. MommyPino says:

            WokeAF, I would be interested in a differential analysis from HG on the Trump couple vs the Obama couple. Although I doubt that he would do that. HG said that Trump is an Upper Lesser, and I think that HG has said before that Lessers tend to find Co-D’s for partners. Does that mean Melania is a Co-D (I have always suspected that she is a Co-D in Stepford dev.). HG hasn’t specified Obama’s school yet (I am not aware of it if he has) but my guess is Obama is a Mid-Ranger who honestly believes that he is a good person making a difference. So what is Michelle then (Standard? SE? Narc?). I know that one of Obama’s daughter is doing a lot of rebellious and hedonistic behaviors. It could be just a phase or could also be an effect of the parenting that she had. I don’t know enough. She’s still very young. I’m just curious. I’m also curious to know what HG thinks about Trump’s kids. He is a Lesser but all of his kids love to tell how engaged he is as a dad to them. My matrinarc was a Lesser and she was extremely engaged and obsessed with me. I just think that those two families would be interesting to differentiate and study.

          2. Lorelei says:

            I love your thoughts MP!

          3. WokeAF says:

            Oh I have Obama pegged as a greater.
            And Melania as a Somatic narc herself

    2. MommyPino says:

      WokeAF, we both like Trump at our house but we sure are getting tired of his tweeting as well. If we see a better alternative (in terms of policies) we will vote for that person instead of Trump. The problem is both sides are too extreme and unwilling to compromise and/or meet the other side in the middle.

      1. WokeAF says:

        Well Marianne Williamson or whatev her name is , is running. Trump at least showed everybody that you can literally run for president without any political qualifications whatsoever .
        I nominate Eckart Tolle
        I nominate Mrs Obama.
        I nominate Ronald McDonald

        1. WokeAF says:

          I forgot to add my signature 😆so you’d know I’m playing

          1. MommyPino says:

            I would vote for Ronald McDonald before I would vote for Mrs Obama. 😜

      2. WokeAF says:

        Also MP I’m not having a go at Trump supporters or voters. Trump has, inadvertently, brought a lot of stuff to light that needed to be seen, and is of course all part of a bigger picture of unfolding.

        I noticed however that lesser narcs seem to be Trump supporters and I think that’s bc they support some of his misogynistic and rascist views,

        That was my intended observation

        1. WokeAF says:

          Wasn’t trying to light any blue touch paper or insult anyone or anything
          Just wanna say that

        2. MommyPino says:

          WokeAF, I didn’t see it as a criticism on Trump supporters. As for Lessers who support Trump, I can see why he would have an appeal to them, because they can see themselves in him. He says what he wants and doesn’t care who’s feathers he may have ruffled. He’s the leader of the most powerful country in the world. Lessers are vicariously living the dream through Trump. I personally don’t know a Lesser who supports Trump though. I don’t know a Lesser in RL except for my mom. I had a friend whom I pegged as a Lesser but she doesn’t care about politics and she hates Trump but I think she just mirrors most of the moms in our community. Also I have been avoiding her since I realized that she could be a narcissist.

      3. Alexissmith2016 says:

        MP, I believe I read a comment where HG informed us that Obama was a greater.

        1. WokeAF says:

          He’d have to be, right? He’s cool as a 🥒

        2. MommyPino says:

          Alexissmith2016, Ahh bummer! I was having so much fun calling him a sniveling coward. But I can see it. He was very smooth at demonizing certain groups of the society: people who cling to God and guns, the cops, white Americans. Something that Hillary couldn’t do. It’s just that he used the victim card so much as well (the race card in particular) even though he grew up from an upper middle class family and never experienced how to be poor.

    3. Anm says:

      Woke AF,
      My daughter’s father is an Upper Lesser, and is obsessed with Trump. Every thing that Trump says and does is as sacred as the 10 commandments. Before he falls asleep at night, he watches on his phone any media coverage of Trump from the day.
      However, I don’t believe he ever really votes. I have taken our daughter with me every time I vote, and I vote on everything from midterm elections to the presidential elections. If I ever bring up something in regards to politics that he knows nothing about (everything), than he gets irritated.

      1. WokeAF says:

        Yeah mine doesn’t vote either. You have to have a valid ID to vote 🙄

        He likes to tell everyone else how they should vote tho

        1. MommyPino says:

          WokeAF, my EMMRN half sister used to get so emotional about how she hates Trump and how she loves Obama and yet she never voted her entire life. They have the entitlement to preach and tell people how to vote but doesn’t bother to follow through. Why? Because following through requires effort on their part.

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