Poll : What Would Your Post Disengagement Response Be?


KTN Poll - H.G Wants To Know Post Graphic

You have been disengaged from by the narcissist. The narcissist has taken up with somebody else, a new Intimate Partner Primary Source (“IPPS”).

You do not know why. You are hurt, angry and bewildered. You learn that barely a day after you have been cruelly disengaged from, the narcissist is with somebody else already. What on earth is going on?

Faced with this situation, what would you do or perhaps more accurately what would you have done before acquiring understanding and insight through me?

Would you have angrily confronted them both, telling him what a scumbag he is and what a whore she is to be with him so soon? Would you be concerned that someone else has been ensnared and you want to warn this person or perhaps you think an indirect warning through family or friends would be more judicious? Maybe you want to derail this fledging relationship or even you will try to win back the narcissist?

Be honest. What would you have done when placed in this position?

You can choose more than one response prior to casting your vote.

Please expand on your viewpoint in the comments section.

Thank you for participating.


What would your post disengagement response be to the narcissist being with a new IPPS victim?

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147 thoughts on “Poll : What Would Your Post Disengagement Response Be?

  1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

    Dear Mr Tudor,
    Thank you so much for responding …. that’s most comforting to know !
    Luv Bubbles xx 😘

  2. Samantha says:

    HG, very sexy legs! Would you ever post an avatar pic of your hips or chest? Working your way up would be such fun! 😉

  3. Bubbles 🍾 says:

    Dear Mr Tudor,
    I would completely ignore and focus on me
    I don’t chase after people, never have, running is not my forte 🤣
    You’re like a vintage wine Mr Tudor, these polls just keep getting better
    Thank you
    Luv Bubbles 🍾

  4. Desirée says:

    HG, could you enable the comment section under the Eysenck’s Personality Inventory Test? I would be interested in what the others thought

  5. blackunicorn123 says:

    I wished him well with his new toy. I was devastated, but there was no way I was going to let him see that. There were loads of questions spinning around my mind, but I was not going to ask him. I instinctively knew he wouldn’t tell me I suppose, and I wasn’t going to give him that power over me too.

  6. WAF Tudorita says:

    Heh heh heh heh oh boy.
    Well almost all apply- divided up nicely between narcs- during escape attempts and all.
    But then I ended up back with all THREE in various interpersonal ways.

    Except I found this site in the midst !!

    So I dealt w things accordingly …praise be to HG!!

    . Went total NC w narcoholic , didnt trash his name, nothing. Held my dignity in place , continued to stay sober as a judge, improved my life- in a small community that was noticed and lauded so I kinda win all around ok that one as I know he knows how well I’m doing , on top of my escape hah

    -minimal contact w kids dad – again just improving my own life , again small community knows the deal
    (hard to hide w these addict victim narcs- ppl see the truth)

    -minimal platonic contact w MMR,no issues.

    Once I absorbed the material you provide here HG I did a 180 in ALL my dealings with my narcs to the benefit of me and my children and my life .

    So while I could check most of the above off in my previous dealings with these narcs—none of them apply now .

  7. Herbst says:

    In retrospect, seeing that that was me four years ago, I now would totally redo my response. AKA not give two sh*ts. Your anger gives fuel, your frustration gives fuel, your envy gives fuel, and your warning would be….well, fuel. The new me would STARVE the fuel, give a lil head nod if I saw them in public, and go make my money/go out with my girls! Done with these vampires.

  8. Brynn Estelle says:

    By the time my disengagement / replacement occurred I had three failed escape attempts under my belt; friends began suggesting that he might be a narc after the second. However, I didn’t discover this blog until a few months into the disengagement, when I was still feeling the brunt of it. I’ve learned a lot here (thanks!), like I don’t know how I would have managed to successfully construct my own closure without the tools and guidance provided. But perhaps the most practical bit of intel I have found here regarded the impermanent, ephemeral nature of the disengagement: when my replacements golden period ended and her devaluation began, my narc would come back for me in some form and this time must be used to prepare for that eventuality.

    I’ve commented on here before about how I sought to expose him, but it essentially boils down to avoiding the word “narcissist,” instead focusing on describing the specific behaviors and allowing the other party to arrive at the conclusion on their own. In the process I was fortunate to meet other survivors, new friends happy to believe my experiences so long as I deigned to believe their own. The ultimate goal was never to end him or destroy his reputation, but rather to facilitate the growth of a supportive sphere of my own. Close friends and coworkers had been on this ride with me for years, and mostly supported me through my grief and healing.

    In addition, I started taking better care of myself. Diet, regular exercise, new clothes, higher quality makeup and hair products, etc. It feels pretty awful to say this about another woman, but one thing I had over my replacement was my looks and style, so I doubled down on enhancing those aspects of myself. We all go to great lengths to justify the actions we choose to undertake, and it’s certainly easy to tell yourself that you’re building a support system because you and others need one and that actually, you’re only getting into better shape because it’s good for you. All of that is real to an extent, but if I’m being honest there was and remains a dark and vindictive part of me that longed for the coming hoover to fail in the face of my community, my beauty and my power. When he came for me, he would find me (apparently) living my best life without him, in the best shape he had ever seen me in and surrounded by love, and this would wound him. The fantasy kept me motivated.

    Because my own golden period was around 9 months, I figured my replacement would have a similar experience. As luck would have it, my biggest work event / show of the year fell right before the 9 month mark of their relationship. Given that these events are organized several months hence, I had ample time to ensure that additional coworkers would be present to staff the event should my abuser show up. Though I at times doubted if someone could really be so predictable, it was impossible to ignore how perfect an opportunity for triangulation this event would be, given its timing relative to my disengagement. I had no choice but to make preparations for the coming hoover, whether it occurred when and as expected or sometime later on.

    On the night of the show, he and my replacement rolled in early. I was working the table at the door, and the instant I detected his face and her shape in my periphery I looked over at the coworker staffing the table with me and quietly said, “it’s happening.” They nodded, told me to get out while they ran the table, and I went with my boyfriend to the parking lot so as to knock out a quick panic attack in the relative privacy provided by the rows of empty vehicles. While running out to have a panic attack upon first sight is uh not necessary an act that conveys profound strength and resilience, I managed to do it quietly and without acknowledgement or eye contact. In thirty minutes time, my friends, allies and supporters had arrived in great enough number that I felt confident enough to return and begin coordinating venue staff and artists. There were now about two dozen between him and me, and of those several assured me that they wouldn’t speak to him or allow him to speak with me.

    Again, I’ve commented about this before, but I ended up playing one of the best sets of my life that night. The event was successful, my replacement was predictably alone and miserable for the full duration of the evening, I was strengthened and held up by my community, and I was completely and wholly back in my power. Oh, and I also happened to look great doing it. Afterwards, friends reported watching his visage shift from smug satisfaction to red-faced rage to defeated melancholy. I’m still kind of relishing that night, if it isn’t apparent. I considered myself a rather strong and resilient women before my narc found me and broke me down into a groveling, weeping pile or self-flagellating sorrow. It doesn’t feel like this all the time, but for that one glorious night, I got to be me again and it wounded him. I got to be me again y’all! How wonderful it is, to occupy oneself once more.

    tl;dr I used the disengagement to 1) mourn and 2) prepare for my replacement’s devaluation and the hoovers and attempts at triangulation I expected to follow that eventuality. HG helped.

    1. WAF Tudorita says:

      Sweeeeet. 👏🏻

  9. meinewelt816 says:

    I voted for:
    – I would wonder why she has been chosen and not me.
    My (lesbian) narc had told me that I am THE ONE. That I am the only woman she wants to be with. That I am something special. And after 8 months she broke up with me – for another woman she had just met! Well, the other woman was younger as me. She had longer hair. But I am prettier, I have the better job and much more money. So, of course I wondered every single day: “Why SHE?!?” (After reading many of your books and your blog I guess my fuel was stale.)
    – I would monitor their relationship from a distance.
    First I cried for weeks, then I got angry. I didn’t warn the other woman. Why should I? I hated her. I can not put in words how much I hated her! And I blamed her – not my narc. So I wanted to see her suffer. She should cry like me, she should be shattered just like me, she should be replaced by another woman just like me.
    My narc and I kept in touch and I stalked she and the other woman at Facebook. I monitored the whole relationship in a notebook and I even followed them on the street. I have to admit, I was pretty obsessed…
    – I would wait for devaluation to start and then look to engage again with the narcissist.
    Well, that was the point, I wanted my narc back. She had manipulated me, she had lied to me, she had cheated on me, she owes me money and I almost lost my job because of her… but I wanted her back. I watched and waited 9 months, then the relationship with the other woman ended (including police). My narc came back to me and after a short time I realized that I was shelved… and everything started again…

  10. empath007 says:

    I admit I felt tempted to tell some of the other women I knew about at first. But my gut told me not too, and then all my research confirmed that was the right decision.

    He never has an IPPS so…. I feel sorry for anyone who’s seeing him. Not jealous (anymore… that took some time) I would be happy if he was with someone “seriously” at this point. Instead of waiting for a score to be settled with me…

    Question HG. If hate keeps us bound to the narc… then doesn’t the narcs hate for me also keep him bound to me? He’s not fully moving on from the situation either when he feels there is unfinished business and malicious payback to be had.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      We never move on because you always belong to us. We are bound to our need for fuel, not bound to you.

      1. empath007 says:

        That’s sad HG. Sometimes when I look it at it like that you guys are the ones with the disadvantage.

        And that’s perfectly ok I don’t want him bound to me. Lol.

  11. Samantha says:

    I actually had this happen with someone years ago. He was tall and very handsome, an alpha male. She was ugly and built like a Cave Woman, just the opposite of me. At first I was shocked and terribly hurt. I had been deeply in love with him for years. I wondered why he chose her over me, but then I realized she was a Sugar Mama to him. My hurt quickly turned into anger. What he did killed the love I felt for him. I moved forward and never looked back. He tried to win me back while he was still with her. He came to my house to pick up his things and went into a violent rage (but he didn’t hit me). Three days later, I got a Restraining Order. He couldn’t stand that I refused contact. Finally, he sent her to my house with a message that he only wanted to be ‘friends’, but I would have nothing to do with him. I told her she was being ‘played’, used, and that he wanted me for intimacy. She didn’t believe me. Not long after, I moved 1,200 miles away. I refused to speak to him for several years. Sometime after the RO expired, he telephone, and I finally spoke to him. On the phone for 2 nights in a row, he cried for one hour each night, telling me how much he loved me, how sorry he was, asking what could he do to make it up to me. I was calm and distant. I said, “There’s only one way. Can you turn back time? No, you can’t. You strangled my love to death.” That was it.

    1. Samantha: It was not personal against you. Money was a residual benefit that was high on his list of needs to function better. This need has always been understood regarding women. This need was not as strong for regular men as it is now in the modern era. In fact, regular working class men did not feel comfortable if the woman made more money or had an income that trumped his. In the past, largely the more aristocratic and titled and propertied men (and the very good looking) selected women with their income as an important selection criteria, and now this selection criteria has trickled down to regular men. Maybe it has to do with the current economy. In NYC where I live, a woman’s salary is very important during the dating process. It is not politically correct for a man to say this, though. And many men now actually prefer a woman that has more money than he has, or has more stability in career or property ownership, etc. It is not as much about looks as it used to be for the normal man. Some very pretty women are going through a crisis because of these modern changes as well. They had all their eggs in one basket: their looks.

      1. Samantha says:

        PrincessSuperEmpath, Thanks. Yes, his need for money superseded everything.

        1. Samantha. It happens. One time the Narcississt that I was infatuated with at work was talking to a wealthy female client, and he was being particular charming with her. I said, as I watched the interaction in awe, to my friend at the job, while we were furtively watching him, `I bet I could have him if I were rich.` She said, `You could.` I burst out laughing. But she said, ` I am not joking–If you had the money, you definitely could have him.` I looked at her oddly. She definitely was not joking as she watched him souping up the rich client. I marveled. Samantha, If had the money, I may have just given it a real try! As they say, `It’s only money.` However, I am very sorry though, that you went through that. It happens to men all the time, now it is happening to women more and more. If you ever hit the lotto, or landed a financial windfall,etc, you probably can go and retrieve that headache of a man. Would you want him back, if you fell into riches?

          1. Samantha says:

            PSE, If I were rich, I would never be with a man who wanted my money. When I was young, I had a prestigious job in Las Vegas as a Baccarat Dealer. There were many rich men who wanted me as a girlfriend. They offered me everything trying to persuade me, but I turned them down. I wanted love, not money. I can’t stand gold diggers, be they men or women, who only care about someone’s money. It thoroughly disgusts me.

          2. Samantha: I have heard men say that it is a double bind. That they want to be rich so they can have a better selection of females, and then they would wonder if she loved them or their money. Then, if the man was asked to give up his riches to find a woman that they knew loved him for himself, the men say, No. They will still stay rich. Older rich women will take on a younger man and support him. So will older men take on young women. I guess it depends on everyone’s needs. Some do need to eat, you know. I am glad that I am lucky to maintain my own food, clothing and shelter, all my adult life. Some are not for various reasons, so I do not judge them. Especially women. Women have it tougher to survive. Is it okay that I am impressed that you were a dealer? That is amazing. I am sure the men were very impressed with you. You have to be smart and quick on your feet and focused and personable and trustworthy for a job like that. Many of those men I bet really admired you. They just happened to have money, as well.

          3. Samantha says:

            PSE, Yes, I’ve seen all kinds of circumstances with gold diggers when I lived in Vegas. Young men with rich older women, young women who married rich older men in foreign countries as a means to survive, lazy high-maintenance gold diggers who just want to be supported by rich men, etc. It’s all the same to me though. I just would never do it. I could only be with a man that I’m in love with, otherwise it would turn my stomach.

  12. Veronique Jones says:

    Probably internalize everything I would assume he was cheating for it to be so quick I would be devastated and angry more at him than her
    He wouldn’t see a reaction I would avoid him would not want him to see the pain I am in

  13. Christopher Jackson says:

    Well hg this has happened to me before twice I was pissed I was more mad if anything because I gave my absolute all to those women I disciplined myself to say women. I left put of town with the first one and when I came back she left me for some other dude we looked somewhat alike…go figure…I heard from some distant friends that she had stood him up at the airport when he came out to her state to visit her sounds like she is part of the brethren also found out a little bit after that I had an std acquired by her. The second one she completely changed after the first six months and I ended up staying and then I found your website and guess who I’m with now…..again

    1. empath007 says:

      Did you go back to first narc Christopher Jackson? Say it isn’t so 🙁

  14. Claire says:

    I voted for
    1. I would ignore them and focus on myself . I really can’t do much even if I wanted because my ex moved back overseas.So even if he has acquired a new appliance, I wouldn’t have no idea about her – neither her look, neither her age and personality. Nor I could warn her what kind of person is my ex husband.
    2. Why she was chosen- this is applicable for Narc 2, although the very short span of the relationship. I had the advantage reading this marvellous blog ( in other words,I had the upper hand). I had no idea nor any curiosity who was the former/ current IPPS. I only saw a photo of her ( and him) at his home and all the parts of the puzzle came together. Let my narcs traits shine now and let me say that comparison was not in her favour. When he tried to triangulated me with her
    or better I say , even tried to squared me with another ‘friend’ , I told him that Ferrari would not compete with Kia and Ford and kicked his a ** (not literally).
    Of course he tried hoovering without any success. He had no dignity whatsoever as he even suggested to remain’ just friends ‘ and I am sorry for the graphic description but he said something like “ I understand you don’t want anymore any intimacy but I can give you just an o**^ if you want, I would serve you anytime” True story! I was so disgusted, I didn’t want to touch him anymore, let alone going further… In his mind he was a champion in the bedroom, thus the nature of his hoovering, along with flattery and false promises
    Needless to say GOSO implemented.

    But why he went back to the previous IPPS – true to my best knowledge she knew about his promiscuity but she had no idea about his penchant love for guys as well. Nor his parents. So this lady served 2 roles – an IPPS and facade maintenance. I never met her in person ( during our golden period he played the single guy card and pity plays about his sexuality) so I cannot warn her about his double life and the healthy risks involved ( putting aside the total lack of accountability, lack of moral values).

  15. Joanne says:

    I was not IPPS, and wasn’t entirely disengaged from. There was no new IPPS installed. But I could see a couple of new girls who’d stolen his attention from me (I know who they are because he triangulated me with them earlier on).

    I spent a lot of time wondering why he would “choose” them over me. I swore it was some physical flaw of mine that he was able to see at our last date that turned him off. I obsessed over this for ages.

    I monitored their “relationship” from a distance. No relationship ever happened. These girls seem to have been activated as IPSS, added to the host of others.

    Still long after the fact, I wish I could tell the world what he is. All the new females that pop up on his social media – all single moms, scorned women. All displaying the exact “come and get me” posts that HG describes. I imagine him love bombing these appliances and I imagine many of them falling for it the way I did. So in my fantasies, I warn them what he is – although, anonymously.

  16. Bk says:

    Hahaha I had hard evidence, she was in his bed 5 days after 2 years of him and I, I confronted him face to face & he stood there with a stunned look on his face with his dead lifeless eyes staring back at me & denied, lied & lied and lied & continued to lie after I called bullshit and told him the truth that he and I both knew damn well. Lol pathetic coward piece of shit.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Indeed but you provided fuel and increased your emotional thinking.

    2. Cyn says:

      Ha! I used to say I could find him with his face in someone and he would say he tripped and fell lol!

  17. myriflemyponynme says:

    Answered but no new IPPS flaunted.
    Two IPSS came to me after divorce was final. The former being jealous of the latter. Ex mistakes his Workplace for a Hunting ground. Lied to IPSS 1 about his marital situation and disengaged from her to “work on his marriage” meanwhile seducing IPSS 2. IPSS 1 found out about IPSS 2 and Went mad. Both engaged with him Under the seal of secrecy couldn’t help confiding in friends and close colleagues. People talk… IPSS 1 confronted him and IPSS 2 at work and threatned to let me know. IPSS 2 came to his rescue and fought with her. He threatned IPSS 1 to make her life miserable if I were ever to discover anything. Little did he know, by saying this, he planted a seed of doubt in IPSS 2’s mind. IPSS 1 came to me and told me about their affair and warned me about IPSS 2 existence. Told her that it was Nothing of my concern as I got my divorce. She wanted to explain herself. She cried a lot, apologised and wanted me to forgive her. I am Nothing like he used to talk about. I had a taste of a smearing Campaign, I was mean, bipolar and let myself go. Ubuesque for ubuesque, I offered her cigarettes and even kissed her on the cheeks to comfort her thinking deep down that when she was in “faveur”, I was her doormat too, that she was jealous because IPSS 2 and EX were all lovy dovy. Parted with a smile and asked her to never be near me or my child. IPSS 1 Went back to work and began to talk enough to scratch his façade. IPPS 2 came to his rescue without letting him know. Wanting to protect him, She assumed that all he had ever said to her was true, that somehow I was the source of it all and allied with IPSS 1 to destroy their “true love story”. When she came to me, she was nervous, talkative and agressive. Let her tell her piece. Told her he was all hers that I was not his wife anymore. Answered only four questions : who filed for divorce? when?when was the divorce finally granted? Have we slept together since? Saw her sink. Wished her well and told her to never come near me or my child.
    I felt sorry for both. Mostly for IPSS 2 because when we met, she was “in love” and Went behind his back. She would have to be punished. Both women are different from each other but still fit him perfectly. Came to realise I was the outcast all along. Seeing them helped me cut him dry out from my life. I was guilt-ridden divorcing a “difficult” yet honest man. This man is a fraud. A panick pick and a not yet promoted new IPPS later, he lives and raises his nephews with his freshly divorced sister.
    Before I Went NC, he wrote me that all was my fault, I was not jealous, he did it because he was scared I would leave him for good. The first one was a shameful mistake, the second trapped him. He was lost and as I was happy and content, he wanted to forget me. He realised he couldn’t. He tought in his twisted mind that we were Taylor and Burton, that not telling about his affairs and granting me divorce would make us rekindle our passion and remarry someday because it was his godly mission to protect me and provide for the only one he madly loved. Of course, chronogically all he said is wrong. Couldn’t help thinking that if two were discovered…

  18. Jean says:

    I felt I must not be good enough for him. Even though deep down I knew I was and more. I attributed it to his culture being from Tel Aviv originally . I knew with him it was ALL about image since he is a jeweler. Heaven forbid he might lose a customer because of him seeing me. I knew together we could be one strong power couple. Now I realize I would be competition to him by being with him. I always felt he did not want to share in our relationship. With HG’s information, now I see why!! HG told me he is an upper mid range narcissist. He is so spot on on this. Before I would if tried to find out what he was doing with that relationship and what could I do to better myself to make me more attractive for him. Now I know it doesn’t matter either way because it is all about him and always will be.
    All the clues I saw and mentioned to close friends, I did not realize what I was dealing with.
    I DO NOW!!!!
    Thank you sooo much HG. This education is so very valuable. NO emotional thinking!!! Stay on the course with LOGIC THINKING!!!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      You are welcome

  19. Cyn says:

    I was kind of in this just a few days ago, though this person had been shelf fuel for awhile from a long time ago and may still be. He was devaluing me again when I escaped several months ago and I escaped, and had been tracking several clues, then went no contact. Last week I made the mistake of looking up a business page on IG for him and surprisingly found one. Other than that I am not on social media. She is his only follower. He does not follow her. I recognized her by the glasses of hers we fought about. I felt horrible for her as I recognized the tortured look and knew the dates he was with her and how long she has now been in the cycle. I wanted to clue her in just by planting a seed, not by speaking to her. Though I could fill in a million gaps with a lot of dates, pictures, emails, texts etc. Her profile is locked and I requested to follow her after a couple days. Then i snapped out of it and I blocked her because I realized it was pointless and that since she was still linked to him it was an opening for him to track me. I am now safe. He has no idea where I am finally, there has been no hoovering since he was at the end of my road as I was packing my car 2 months ago and moved house after monthly hoover attempts for 7 months. He would love the fuel and I won’t provide it. This is my safe space. Besides she knew about me, it’s her journey to figure out. I did nothing. Plus I saw a meme HG posted about how narcs do this stuff. That helped. I realized by the dates they posted their pages just a few days after I had ignored his previous hoover attempt of a letter on my car lol

    1. jessrnny says:

      If they know about you it makes it easier to let them fall on their faces.

      1. Cyn says:

        Kind of. I also felt bad because I could tell she had a few extra pounds, not super heavy, but I am lean and so he is he, and he is coaching her at volleyball. This of course is something to pick on her about and a vulnerability I’m sure she has. He of course is in a superior position ( I chose to do my runs instead of go watch him play ball). Poor thing. I do feel for her.

      2. Cyn says:

        Hey! Are you the one who formerly referred to yourself as SF? If so my darling, I am SUPER proud of you for not doing so any longer!!!

  20. Chihuahuamum says:

    I would be so heartbroken and lost id go full no contact and focus on myself. I do worry about this but my narc has never had a primary but rather what i suspect many secondaries so i dont think this would happen but you never know. Id seclude myself and try to heal the pain.

  21. Pingback: Poll : What Would Your Post Disengagement Response Be? ⋆ NarcTopia
  22. KellyD says:

    Since I’m not a fighter, I would ignore as best I could, and wonder why she was chosen.
    But thanks to HG, I don’t need to wonder. Fuel, baby, fuel.

  23. Sweetest Perfection says:

    I was not his IPPS and I was never disengaged or fully devaluated, but I am gonna be honest here: I always, always, even before our affair, wondered why he chose his current IPPS. Not just over me, but over anyone moderately attractive. I was convinced he deserved someone as physically beautiful as he looks, even though I know this was extremely mean and superficial of me, but I was secretly “in love” with a person I thought was wonderful. Now I understand why he chose her: he cheats on her repeatedly, flirts openly with other people on social media, leaves her alone at home while hanging out with one of his victims or prospects, embarrasses her on social media with his ridiculous egomaniac behavior… and she pretends to be just fine, acting like they are the perfect couple. So if I ran into them together now, I would ignore him, and be extremely nice to her, because now I know it was always the other way around: she deserves better.

    1. Caroline R says:

      Sweet P
      So well said!

      1. Sweetest Perfection says:

        Thank you, CR!

    2. Joanne says:

      WOW. These are some of the most relatable comments I have read on this blog thus far. I have always felt the same about the ex wife. When I first reconnected with him after many many years, I was shocked to see who he was married to. I thought for sure someone as beautiful as he would’ve chosen someone equally as attractive (or at the very least, someone more feminine/girly). But now I understand. I saw his treatment of her played out on social media in much of the same way you describe, while she appeared the ever cheerful, easy going and always supportive wife.

      The sad part is I became involved with him AFTER I had witnessed this subtle public abuse for years, and knew it wasn’t right.

      1. Sweetest Perfection says:

        Joanne, I’m happy to read that you had the same thought because I still hate myself for thinking in that shallow manner about her. I believe vanity is one of my narcissistic traits. There was one punctual time, after I escaped but before totally going NC, that I felt absolutely miserable for her. She had left town for the holidays and he was still here. That was the time he tried to hoover me at my workplace, but I saw him outside and left through the back door before he could see me. The day after, she posted a picture of the two on social media, rejoicing at the fact he surprised her by reuniting earlier when he had previously said he had to finish some work and would stay here for a couple of days longer. I then understood his plan was to hoover me, ensnare me again and take advantage that his wife had left to take me to his house. Looking at her naïve smiling face hugging him made me feel disgusted about him. That feeling of repulsion has stayed with me ever since. If I deactivated my account was not so much to stop him from contacting me as to stop myself from going kamikaze and revealing the whole thing publicly, because I can’t deal with so much hypocrisy.

        1. Joanne says:

          It’s pretty crazy when you can fit all the pieces of their schemes together like that. And the hypocrisy is too much for me too. it’s good that you deleted FB.
          Vanity is one of my narc traits too, which I’m also not really comfortable admitting.

          1. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Joanne, if we are pretty we are pretty. #noshamefacts

          2. Joanne says:

            😂🤣 SP, you crack me up!! 💁🏼‍♀️ 👠💄 💫

        2. Lorelei says:

          Vanity has been an interesting lesson. I was vain (still would be) about who I’m with. It’s gotten me no where.

          1. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Lorelei, I’m not vain about the other person I’m vain about myself. Isn’t that the definition of vanity anyway? I have been with not so good looking people, I’m attracted to their minds and personalities. In fact, when I started my affair with this super Somatic, I was constantly insisting on talking about arts, literature, feelings; he killed it by just sending dick pics and deviating everything to sex. I needed a connection. Of course I was excited by someone who found me hot (I heard the expression “smoke show” for the first time in my life and I felt like flying) thus my vanity. Vanity killed this cat.

          2. Lorelei says:

            Understood. I relate in many levels.

      2. Joanne: When our tunnel-visioned Emotional Thinking becomes attracted to the person, almost everything is rationalized away with one explanation or another by our renegade Emotional Thinking.. I never knew the extraordinary strength and almost unbelievable power of what I now know is called Emotional Thinking, until I came on Narcsite. It is extremely forceful and very very cunning and sly and scheming. And what is worse is that Emotional Thinking, is also a TRAITOR, a turncoat, and a fink that leaves us alone to pick up the pieces once everything blows up on us. Then our true logic and real emotions are left alone to pull us out of the resulting quagmire and quicksand and misery that we find ourselves buried under. And Then our Emotional Thinking takes no blame and even dares to asks us: Why did you ignore the red flags? Why did you choose me, Emotional Thinking, over Logic? Why do you believe in fairy tale endings? Why? How are you going to fix this mess? When will we feel whole again? And after all of this trauma, Emotional Thinking will STILL ask: Should we find a way to get back with the Narcississt??? Emotional Thinking is Unbelievable.

        1. Desirée says:

          Re: Emotional Thinking is Unbelievable
          Do you ever feel like your ET suddenly gets “desperate” if you haven’t gotten a fix for a long time?
          Like you haven’t engaged with narcissists in weeks and out of nowhere your mind starts racing and you want to reengage in whatever way possible. Happened to me after 5 weeks of no contact with my ex and while I managed to keep myself from contacting him, I almost called my former “best friend” (Middle Mid-Ranger) who I had cast aside months prior, just to get the least potentially damaging belly rub for my addiction. It was pathetic, but logic prevailed and dignity remained intact.
          It reminded me of when you do a prolonged fast and after days of no issue at all, you suddenly get the most intense cravings like you will drop dead if you don’t do something about it sTrAiGhT AwAy!! Then it’s gone as soon as it appeared and does not return. Like that last gasping breath of a dying deer.
          I guess it’s kind of like “starving out” the Emotional Thinking and the more difficult it is to persist, the easier of a time you have afterwards, when you didn’t give in.

          1. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            Desiree. Sure I feel that way. That is when I flirt with HG (I do not really know how to flirt. I am probably as subtle as a freight train). Like when I begged him to bring back the red shorts avatar. I really needed to see those legs to stabilize myself. They look so supportive. (I mean, tangerine shorts avatar). Sure. I have been working on a Top Moments video in my mind. The top 10 worst moments about why I removed myself from that entire Narcissistic Dynamic. I usually think about 4 of 5 incidents, and I cool down and do not have to think of 10. I am lucky Desiree that I am not attracted to most men. How evolved of me, yes? But, that has the downside that when I find a man attractive, I really want him beyond reason. Is that emotional thinking? And it is not about looks in general. I am not attracted to flamboyant strutting somatics or Gym steroid guys. So far, no temptation is on the horizon in my offline life. Life is back to normal in that respect. A bit dull. When you feel that way, Desiree, imagine the ending, not the beginning. Also, I need you to read Sitting Target if you have not done so. I kept asking you if you have read it on other posts, and then I can not find the posts to see if you ever replied and then I ended up buying the book for myself and it is great. That book gives me a lot of solid mental strength and logical thinking development and that book throws cold ice water on my emotional thinking. Many say the book Sex and the Narcississt is somewhat disturbing, but I find Sitting Target more disturbing. I like both books, but they are both different. In the meantime, just flirt with HG. PSE approves.

          2. Lorelei says:

            HG probably found those legs on google images!

          3. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            Lorelei: You sure know how to deflate a person. I thought that you had evolved since a few months ago that you thought you had problems thinking of a behavioural professional as having the right to be attractive and more. He has rights, Lorelei. And he still can do his work, as you know. Just like you have rights and can still do your job and still be sexy, ok? Let him be, himself. He is more productive that way. HG, are these your legs in the avatar?

          4. HG Tudor says:

            Yes those are my legs.

          5. Lorelei says:

            Princess—I’m glad he has legs! They are useful! I hate laying in the sun for the purposes of tanning. Like more than a cat in water.

          6. Dearest HG: I thought they were yours. Thank you. For their Support.

          7. HG Tudor says:

            Ha ha!

        2. Desirée says:

          I didn’t realize your tangerine shorts banter was flirting, but I am sure HG picked up on it and clearly always delivers. Do you feel like engaging with HG in this manner feeds the inherent addiction? I am asking because I read a comment here earlier today talking about how some might have HG as their “surrogate narcissist” and honestly, that sounds like a pretty good deal to me. But I don’t feel like it feeds my addiction at all, I once likened it to an alcoholic talking to a bottle of wine.
          I can tell that talking to HG always strengthens my Logic Defenses and never heightens my Emotional Thinking. I feel calm and steadfast afterwards, like I am finally aware of my feet standing firmly on the ground and my heart beating calmly in my chest. Emotional Thinking however is a rush, a high and too much is never enough.
          My genuine impression is that the enjoyment I derive from talking to HG is because he is an entertaining, charming and admirable man, not because he has NPD.
          I read Sitting Target and it’s one of my favourite books of HG, likely the most eye-opening. On “The March of the LoveFrauds” I think Sarah talked about how this book could help illustrate the issue with narcissism better to normal people, since they tend to be less aware of the issue of narcissism than our kind because they rarely get targeted the same way. The part about Elites and how HG described the approach at a charity dinner was especially icky to me, although very well written. I talked this morning with someone about a woman that seems to only engage in charitable causes for her own gain and without knowing her yet, it immediately pinged my narc radar. The Lady in question is a national celebrity as well so to hell with the benefit of the doubt the she’s an angel with a dirty face, Amen.
          “When I find a man attractive, I really want him beyond reason.”
          That is usually beacuse they stand out from the crowd in a mesmerizing, magnetic way. I used to be attracted to these men because they where “prizes” to be won and having them by my side would complete me. They would play that game with me, even though they were the ones to target me all along. It can be a sign of an upper echelon narcissist going the extra mile for fuel provision. Upper Lessers try it as well, but who wants those.
          Have you ever read “The Art of Seduction” by Robert Greene? Don’t do it. It’s of zero use to empaths but refreshingly honest. I looked into it now because it throws around the term “narcissism” a lot and refers to seduction as a form of warfare. It even refers to the person as your “victim” and tells you to completely focus on what your victim desires, then give them exactly that but withhold it a little later so they will be extra relieved when they finally get it again. It’s narc 101 and I don’t see anyone who is not a narc successfully applying these techniques, the very interesting historic examples that are provided almost always talk about the narcs of history.
          I am mentioning this because those “master seductors” had this effect on women because they where bold and removed from the crowd, hence why they did not only stand out, but where extremely desirable since they where rare. It also points out that not any man can be that successful in his seduction, otherwise society would not function, making them even more “valuable”.
          So my feeling is that that small percentage we tend to be attracted to and obsessing over are overwhelmingly narcissists who have honed their skills to project that precise image and feeling little attraction to most other men (I would assume normals) could be a sign of heightened ET. So long as logic prevails, I actually find a lot of normals and empaths to be very engaging and interesting in their own right. And most importantly, they’re much more substantial than the narcs I used to loose sleep over.

          1. Desiree: I told you already, I am not really a flirter, so it is possible that HG did not pick up on it because it was too robust. True flirting, I would think, is an art and is probably subtle. Also, women flirt all the time, so it would not stand out. Plus, it was really true that I missed those red/tangerine shorts. So, I am sure he picked up on the truth of my request, and guess what? A lot of readers were happy to see the shorts returned and they said so,and many said so without knowing a request had been made! Peace was restored to the kingdom. I have no need to flirt most of the time, because I have low interest in the men I meet. No practice, no perfection. No big deal. So, I do not feel that flirting with HG, if one has the talent to actually flirt, feeds the addiction at all. Just because HG is a professional, does not mean we have to somehow ignore the the fact that he is an attractive male? And, just because we love vegetables, does not mean we love cauliflower. And just because we love animals does not mean we want an anteater. And just because we have an instinctive desire for Narcissists does not mean we desire every single one of them. Variations on a theme, so to speak. And as far as feeding the addiction to Narcissists, HG is way more alluring than the Narcississt I became infatuated with, so I know for a fact that I could not `handle` HG at all, offline, since I could barely function as a NIPSS in a workplace environment. I do not deceive myself. So, he surely does not remind me of any of the men that enter my sphere and thus he can not feed any addiction to what is not there, beyond what is being fed to me while dealing with one out of every six persons being a Narcississt in society? And thus, I am being starved by them in general, when I should be well fed under those circumstances of how many there are in my offline life. But, I am largely not tempted by all the Narcissists swarming around in NYC. There is no comparison. And, I do not find normal men boring at all like so many women say on here. I find boring men, boring. But NYC is hard on men in general, and so I probably should move, but it is too difficult for me to contemplate. The book, the art of seduction sounds interesting. I have heard it mentioned. But, I do not really want to seduce someone, because what if they like me because of that, and then I decide I do not want them after all, but I seduced them? I do not want that responsibility. Plus, HG always wants to be in control, so I could never have any fun with him, unless I could catch him in a good moment. Maybe he would give me 15 seconds to do what I wanted, if I explained it first? Sounds too complicated. HG has a quality that I find alluring and it is the main quality that always attracts me. It is difficult to explain, but I know it when I encounter it: I have to be able to see what was the boy in a man. No matter how young or old he is. I have to see it. And, I would never tell them him when I see it, so that he could never practice it, nor take that away. That is what he has that is so attractive to me that seals all the obvious that anyone sensible would say is so attractive and so sophisticated and cool about him. But, I have a narcissistic trait in that I can not be seduced. At my job, I already admired the Narcissist. He was able to increase it. Or, decrease it. He did not create it. I am not lured by fame and fortune. I see plenty of that in NYC. No man can make me like him. I have to like him on his own, on my own, whether or not he can understand why. And it is often traits that he does not know he has. HG fits the bill. And he is magnificent. But, I know that he is just too much for me to `handle.` And anyone else even lower down the matrix, as well, is too much for me. If I happen to like a man in the future, not in the workplace, and he then decides to lovebomb me anyway, Great! Wait……..that would mean he is a Narcississt, and I would have to pass, but you understand what I mean. But, I love engaging with HG on here like many others do as well. He does not feed my addiction to Narcissists. But, he is intelligent and smart and a genius and sexy, and artistic, and sporty and a bit of the `bad boy.` Why should I not want to talk to all that? So, I am very/quite pleased to engage with such an intelligent and witty and obsessed man. He is a marvel. And, of course there is more to him than just the NPD, but the NPD is also a major part of him, that he is making the most of in a positive way that affects the era that we live in. How can someone not admire that and still be honest with themselves. And, he is a very hard working and courageous man, on top of all that. And maybe one day he will make me a music playlist. I need some music. For years. He inspires me to try to be a bit more ambitious in this life and to implement more alacrity and dispatch, as well. Finally, Desiree, I have your answer that you have read Sitting Target. I feel so much better. If I could just meet one more guy I am attracted to, maybe I could see a pattern, Desiree, but thus far, I do not see a pattern. I bet if we could see every female that HG has entangled with, we would see a lot of variety. He knows fuel when he feels fuel, I am sure, whether or not anyone else can see what he feels. I think we shall be ok, Desiree. Just come on here if and when you are losing it. And speak up. Say, you are losing it and ask for support like many do on here on the days they are losing it. You will not be alone in doing so. And if a dangerous emergency is approaching, just make a consult. Things happen. The end of Chapter One.

          2. Lorelei says:

            Desiree—good post.

          3. Desirée says:

            Thank you Lorelei
            PSE: I think you’re doing great and on top of that, written format is kind of a strange way to convey flirting anyway since it tends to be more subtle in real life interaction. Haha I am sorry you had to wait so long for my answer with regards to Sitting Target, I can never get the notifications on narcsite activated so I have to remember the articles I commented on and return at a later date to check for replies. It’s like squirrels burrying hazelnuts before winter so the can come eat them when it snows, but then forget where they burried some of them. That’s how Hazelnut Trees populate, no doubt. But I will find a solution for that lack of notification problem, maybe I’ll set up a new account. I managed to subscribe to the newsletter at least but cannot keep that because of how many notifications for new blog posts came in (12 since last night) so that wasn’t helpful.
            Did you mean that there a no good men in NYC? That seems to be a common thing I hear with regards to any big City, London as well. I am currently in Zürich which only has a population of about 1.4 Mio (it’s like a very clean international village) but even here someone told me it’s impossible to find good men in Zürich. How is that even statistically possible and why is that such a common complaint?
            I started reading that Robert Greene Book because the terms he used in it reminded me of HGs terminology and since HG refers to Narcissists as “weapons of mass seduction”, I read it with a view to how narcissitic techniques are described here and if there might be some interesting in history (there are). It makes for a very interesting case study with HGs work in mind, but I don’t see how it could be of any use as otherwise. Empaths and Normals wouldn’t be able to keep up such deliberate manipulation and narcs do it instinctively. So who was this book even written for? Me! So that I can apply what I’ve learned from HG and start pointing it out in different scenarios. Although to be fair, I have not finished it yet. I might get blown away by it’s usefulness on the last 100 pages or something.
            Now I’m curious what HG would come up with if he was to write a similar book. Since he knows Empaths incredibly well, he might even be able to come up with something good that moves beyond the two golden rules of courtship: Rule #1 run away from narcs and Rule #2 if you think he’s a narc, into force comes Rule #1.
            You also talked about music and since there appears to be a lot of material that is pandering to some empaths’ idealized views, I’ve been wondering,
            do you think that indulging in certain types of art, be it music, movies, paintings or literature, can heighten or lower Emotional Thinking?

          4. Desiree: I think knowing about seduction is very important. Seduction is still manipulation, but sounds sexier than saying manipulation. But, we have been subjected to a more intense type of seduction via Narcissism than what he is probably talking about. But I am sure it could be helpful in `seducing` business clients and upper and even lower echelon people that we encounter for various reasons, but Mirroring, like we have encountered probably sums all that up quite swiftly in one word. Seduction is Mirroring. But, Sitting Target is a master book of seduction. Real seduction takes research, like we see discussed in Sitting Target. Whether one is researching a potential client or business or potential partner. I learned from Sitting Target, that if we empaths and normals put half of the research in, as the Narcissist does, especially the higher level Narcissists, we would be much more successful in life. I am finding we need more Defensive tactics than Offensive tactics though. We will not be very good at seducing, I think. But, we can research more, to make better relationships of all kind. These are my thoughts for now. I love music! I do not have too much of a preference, but there is just so much of it, that I feel overwhelmed. I just want some playlists. Like for HG to give me a playlist of his 25 favorite songs of all time. Or 25 songs to work out with. Or 25 Depeche Mode songs. Just as long as the songs are chosen with some sort of belief or thought. Is this asking too much in life? Of course music and art can lower or heighten emotional thinking. Everyone just needs to balance themselves out as much as possible, according to their personality. For example, I do not indulge in sad mauldin movies, because I need to be stronger. So I mainly watch espionage and thrillers. Art should move you to either remember or forget, I feel. I have been teaching myself interior decorating. So, I remember the 9/11 terror attack and Hurricane Sandy in NY, and we citizens were trapped for a while inside, to be safe. So after that experience, I decorated my studio apartment to feel happy, if I have to be stuck inside. So, it is sort of a slightly Mediterranean, slightly romantic and slightly tropical decor. People love it. I plan to enter it in a contest one day. Small Space Big Style type of contests, when I finish. I am sure I will win. I am not joking, because I have looked into past winners. I am definitely in there. MY Property Mgmt wanted to show my apt. and I asked if I would receive anything and they said, no, so I said, no. But art is everywhere, and music. You just need to select whatever makes you feel more balanced. In NYC, many people like nature music and things like that to balance out the concrete and crowds, but I do not really need that type of meditation music. I think large cities chew men up and spit them out quicker. Few can conquer a city, so they break sooner. They start out all blustery and robust and then they realize that the cities always win, like the house in casinos always win, but the men have given the best years of their lives to unloving, unloyal and unforgiving cities. I see no way it will fix itself. The train has left the station. And yes, emotional thinking has to be constantly monitored. HG says that when we stay away from Narcissists for a good while, we can more accurately feel when I emotional thinking surges, and then we can reign it in, before this traitor leaps and drags us along into its favorite sort of trouble: Narcissists.

          5. Desirée says:

            Princess: The book I mentioned does adress Narcissism directly, for example by talking about how certain world leaders of history have “seduced” entire nations and finishing by pointing out that they have all been confirmed narcissists. I don’t know anything about that author or his understanding of narcissism, so I wouldn’t recommend it for that purpose, but its approach seems to be quite self aware in that regard and I like to test my knowledge by reading those examples and trying to guess what narcissistic manipulation was applied. That’s also why I love this “new format” HG has been introducing more frequently in his blog posts (I know it’s in some of the books but I like to read it in this short format as well) where he describes a seemingly normal situation and then gives his bold and italic notes on how the narcissist perceives this and what is being accomplished. It’s extremely useful and fascinating because some of it (like the constant need for immediate power) is such an alien concept to me, I require constant reminders to have it sink in. I don’t remember in which book I read that, but there was one scenario where the narc gets asked a benign question and answers in the most horrible manner and HG explained that the request for information by asking a question was an attempt to gain power because information/knowledge = power so the narc decided power needed to be reasserted in this particular case and I just sat there with my mouth open. It makes zero sense to me, but I actually remember my mother responding in similar manner when I would ask her something seemingly benign, but I thought she just felt like being difficult that day.
            I studio appartement sounds like a little oasis in New York, I like it! How did you teach yourself interior design? I wouldn’t even know where to start. And yes, you should definitely enter a contest, that sounds really cool!
            With regards to defensive as opposed to offensive “seduction tactics”, a lot of empaths are very naturally seductive or charming, Magnets certainly have that quality to them and Geysers can be very endearing. After all, narcs do not come up with techniques on their own, but observe what works and imitate it for their purposes. Therefore, all seduction “techniques” originated from Normals or Empaths. I think the reason why said book is so besides the point in my opinion is because Normals and Empaths could never do something so deliberately as it is explained. But maybe it could be beneficial for those who try to find out what type of person they are and how to embrace that. Did you take the Eysenck’s Test that HG uploaded for example? That might be a place to start if that’s interesting to you and I am kind of curious where someone like HG would fall. He’s extroverted and stable no doubt…Sanguine, then? I’m not sure if it applies to narcs to be honest haha

          6. Desiree: I do not know anything about the Eysenck’s Test that HG uploaded. Was it a long time ago? Do you remember the general result for those that took it? Regarding decor, I have a smallish studio apartment, and I wondered how to make it feel more adult and not collegy/universitish/Ikea-ish like most decor looks for smaller spaces. A decorating course I found that interested me happened to be around thirty thousand dollars, and I said to myself, No Thank You. So I started googling decorating and started teaching myself. It was tedious going and frustrating for a while. Then one day, I had a breakthrough, I thought of 5 star hotels and the like, and how they manage to make smaller spaces elegant and even exciting. So, I went in my own direction of study, away from the basic decor paths. I must have looked at thousands and thousands of highly rated hotel suites over and over, and soon I started putting the elements together about how to make smaller spaces elegant and interesting. (That is my `secret` that I will not tell if I win a contest. It took me a while to think of the elegant hotel suites, so that is something that I am just saying on here. And that `secret` works so well). After a while, patterns started appearing in the hotel suites that caught my attention. I looked at thousands of photos of elegant hotel suites from all over the world, including some in Germany, and I finally came up with my own formula. Regarding these seductive world leaders, in my worldview, some people are born for these roles. My mother is very smart and intellectual. Probably a genius. I remember some important people wanted her to start moving up in local politics. They used to come to our house for tea and coffee. She already did a lot of volunteer work as a stay at home mom, as it is called now. She met with a lot of different people who were grooming her, here and there. She was on a few committee here and there. In the end, she and my father decided she would not go that route. She told me later, after I was adult, that they straight out would tell her that she would have to do a few distasteful things, and things that she may not approve of for the greater good and all that. But, at the end she said, no. So these people in politics are more than just seductive. They are part of a club. They are a part of certain groups in society. They do certain things that they do not discuss publicly. Bad things are done as well. There are a lot of politics in politics. Some people are just more naturally seductive as they go about it and that helps, of course. But there is a lot going on that is unsavory with these politicians and these world leaders especially behind the scenes throughout history and up to now, and I do not envy any of them, nor have I ever had any desire to partake in that sort of career, nor even to meet them. I would be curious to meet and take a look at their wives though. I would love to see some of the more stylish women such as Michelle Obama, and Carla Bruni and Melania Trump and Meghan Markle in person. Not to talk with them, but just to see what they actually look like, out of curiosity.

          7. Desirée says:

            Princess: I immediately had an image in mind when you talked about 5 star hotel rooms, it is a rather distinct but really appealing style and I think the fact that you are “self-taught” in interior design now is really cool! Politics is a pointless endeavour for empaths, a shark tank. But since politicians have to appeal to the masses and are narcissists more often than not, it is worthwhile to observe their behavioural patterns for ones own gain.
            As for the mentioned ladies, all I know is I have met some national “celebrities” and they all looked horrid, HORRID in real life. They seemed to have perfect figures on screen, but looked spindly and frail in person. Their seemingly radiant skin was plastered in make up and strategically topped with glitter and their hair was oddly stiff. The first time I got to meet one of my idols in real life, I could not look away from the break-outs on her chin that had been caked over with the thickest coat of makeup. How could she look so glowing on the screen and yet so sickly in person? To be fair, these ladies still looked better than almost anyone you’ll encounter on the street, but I could not get over how utterly fake everything seemed. I am sure there are many celebrities that are as beautiful in real life and all of the males I’ve ever met were as handsome and charming as I would have expected (and probably narcissists, admittedly). Royals looked lovely and natural as well although some of them quite thin.
            Here’s the link to the test:
            It was easy to miss, doesnt have a comment section and I only noticed because it popped up first thing when I came to the site. I was asking HG if he could turn the comments on because I thought is was very interesting but since the test was from another website and it doesn’t have a picture either, it’s possible HG can’t do it.
            I’d recommend it and certainly found it accurate.

          8. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            Desiree: You wrote: `but I could not get over how utterly fake everything seemed.` Desiree, I heard that the internet is driving another type of plastic surgery. To make ones features look good on the internet vs look good in offline true dimensional life. I heard some of the people of the new era that look good on IG and FB and YT etc, can look bizarre in real life, and that’s ok with them. I thought they could ust adjust their making to film better, but they actually have the surgery to film better, actually knowing and being forewarned by their doctors that they will look odd in person. And we know that sort of thing does not age well. I see so many women in NYC, with the hair one age, the face another age, the figure another age, the hands another age, the clothing another age, the neck another age, the skin texture another age, the make-up application another age, all on one woman. It looks bizarre. I once saw a woman that looked about 16 or 17 from the back and when she turned around, she was around 80 years old. I almost gasped because of the discrepancy, but I caught myself. I am not at all saying that women or men should not fight the aging process and should not take care of themselves, rather I am just saying that some aesthetic balance should be considered, yes? Or one could end up looking like a product of component parts put together by Plastic Surgeon Dr. Frankenstein and an assortment of frivolous corroborators.

          9. Desirée says:

            Princess: New York is a special kind of freak show. I was walking down the streets of Manhattan and the woman in front of me had several 50 Dollar notes hanging out of the back pocket of her jeans while yelling at someone on her phone (was probably just her version of normal conversation, to be fair). I tapped her on the shoulder since I figured she might want to know about this. She spun around in horror like I had slapped her on the ass. I saw those lash extensions going all the way up to her eyebrows, pink glittery rouge on her wax like cheeks and smeared lipstick on the duck-lipped mouth wide open in horror of having someone…tap her on the shoulder because I didn’t want her to get robbed. Despite her weird looks, she can’t have been older than late twenties, acted like a twelve year old and had the face of an eldery woman who “still got it”.
            I also heard that people who frequently photoshop their social media pictures get anxiety over people finding out what they look like in real life and discovering the “fraud”, which motivates them to actually get the surgeries to look their photoshopped self. Made me wonder if anyone I’ve ever known in real life does that, it is bizarre and I feel really bad for teenagers now growing up in the age of “Facetune” and the pressure that must be accompanied by that.

          10. NarcAngel says:

            It’s ridiculous. I haven’t seen a natural brow for ages either. Between the brows and pouty wet lips, women are advertising to suck dick while looking perpetually surprised and insulted that they’re solicited to suck dick. A sure fire plan to be taken seriously and respected.

          11. Cyn says:

            Ha! With the weird Botox/ filler combo how can they feel what they are doing anyway? Traction? Did I say that? I bet this gets moderated out because I am filthy sometimes lol 😂 sorry 😇

        3. Joanne says:

          So very true! I’m glad I now understand ET to almost be an entity in itself, within me, coaxing me to do things that I know full well are bad for me. Definitely one of the most important things I have learned along this process.

          1. Joanne: It sure is. It gives us an advantage in this world to know this E.T. lies within us. Like an Extraterrestrial entity. And always remember that it is a coward and a traitor that exits when everything blows up in our face. And as soon as we straighten out the debris E.T. quietly and stealthily comes back to the lookout deck to search for more trouble to feed itself: Exceedingly, A Narcissist. Its favorite dish. Served Hot. NOOOOOOOOOOOOO! We can only go on and off, and on and off that Wheel of Misery so many times before an earth shattering disaster occurs and we will not be able to turn back one second of time.

          2. Desirée says:

            Re.: E.T. is a coward and a traitor
            E.T. just wants to phone home…

          3. Desiree: E.T. saying it wants to phone home is: A Pity Play. So that we do not focus on the mayhem that the E.T. has caused us. E.T. Preservation tool number one: Pity Play. E.T. has a toolkit and uses it when our logic hones in on it. Tell E.T.: No phoning home. That it is time for a little talk. To pull up a seat. To Cancel all activities. That we are going to be meeting with it for a while. Logic has some vital announcements to make. No questions may be asked by E.T. It is listening time for E.T. It’s time for a showdown. Some changes are going to be made. Effective Immediately.

          4. Desirée says:

            Princess, I liked that. I see E.T. with completely different eyes now. Shoot the bastard back into space and hope he gets swallowed by a black hole is what I have to say about that.

    3. ceyceyc says:

      wow. if it was possible i would press “like” more than once.
      now i am in disengagement form but i had same questions, same feelings
      ipps has obsessive-compulsive disorder in my story. and like you said : “… and she pretends to be just fine, acting like they are the perfect couple”

      1. Sweetest Perfection says:

        Ceyceyc, she also forces him to go to couples’ counseling. And he goes. And then he tells me he can’t make plans for this or that day because he had couples’ counseling. And there I was wondering why he goes to counseling while he is maintaining an affair. It is all about façade. I have studied the situation very closely and it is obvious he needs a shield in case all of his shit starts floating around. His shield is: I am happily married. The rest doesn’t count.

        1. ceyceyc says:

          i know this shield very well. he does everything what he wants but he plays “married man” card when it’s necessary.

          he is the king of the his dream castle, he lives with his dream team : a wife who admires him, pretty little daughter, his wife’s relatives -they love him so much-, his family… this castle was made by lies and tears. it seems fabulous outside, but there is a lot of dark dungeons inside

          i was jealous for her at first. but it didn’t take long to realize that she was manipulated by him. when i saw a photo of them in instagram, first i felt sad, then i told myself that all of these are fake.

          i know i have no right but sometimes i get angry with her. she knows him better than i do. she sees affairs, lies, physical violence. she is the one who can broke that shield. but she is happy. she calls it “marriage”. of course i never walk with her shoes. this is just tiny little feeling, deep in my heart.

          he is the director of his brilliant (!) movie. he choose the cast. and i thank god everyday for not being chosen for the leading actress. she can accept “the best supply award” if she wants. but i don’t want, never wanted.

          1. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Ceyceyc, I understand. I have felt the same. I am very straightforward though, sometimes cruelly direct. I always thought she puts up with all of this because she has such a low self- esteem that knowing her husband is wanted makes her feel good.

    4. empath007 says:

      Interesting. My narc only has had one “public” IPPS. whom I didn’t deem attractive, at least not in a traditional sense. but in my case I saw that as a positive (not because I felt better then her, I have low self esteem when it comes to my appearance) but because I liked that he was not shallow. His IPSS he replaced/triangulated me with wasn’t a super model either but was much younger, more vibrant and a somantic narc herself (the last part I did not know at the time) so men were sexually attracted to her. He seemed to be more concerned with the fact that I was genuine, kind, thoughtful, caring etc. He said to me he found that extremely attractive and that I was also “the most beautiful women he’s ever seen” … now I know WHY he thought that… but at the time I thought it was so deep and meaningful for him to prioritize those traits lol… oh dear… It’s interesting how we place our own beliefs on others and sometimes they are way off.

  24. ceyceyc says:

    if this poll is just about the new ipps, he already has one. it would be a miracle to find a new ipps for him. first of all, i would congratulate him for this great success.

  25. MB says:

    I was hurt by the ghosting and the rudeness. More than anything, I wanted answers. I begged God to tell me what I did wrong and what was wrong with him. God gave me HG. I’m good now.

    1. Joanne says:

      Oh MB 😢
      I begged God too. I begged for the pain to go away! I begged Him to make me forget. It sickens me now to look back at what I was reduced to, over someone who was so far beneath me, who gave me NOTHING! Thanks to “god = HGT” we are so much better now ☺️

      PS: I didn’t mean that as blasphemy, it was a play on the acronym thingy 😉😉

      1. MB says:

        Joanne, I didn’t interpret blasphemy at all! I use God and The Universe interchangeably. I begged for a forgetting serum too. HG was truly heaven sent. I wish I had found him sooner, but I truly thought I’d go to my grave without answers. We are all very fortunate that he is willing to be such a resource. He took the mystery away and gave me answers. Even better than a forgetting serum. Forever in his debt. (Goes without saying of course!)

    2. Samantha says:

      MB, with my recent experience with a Narc, that also happened with me. I was so hurt, bewildered, and heartbroken. I prayed and asked God to show me what happened. God immediately brought me to HG. The revelations have been amazing. Thank God for HG! I keep him in my prayers ever since.

      1. MB says:

        Samantha, I’m glad to read that you found HG so quickly! God works in mysterious ways. Who would have ever guessed there was a narcissistic psychopath Dark Angel?

        1. Samantha says:

          MB, me too! “Mysterious ways” for sure!

    3. Lorelei says:

      MB—how did you find the blog and/or what was wrong with the situation?

      1. MB says:

        Lorelei, I knew something was “off” and it led me to ‘The Psychopath Next Door’. It seemed that was in the right direction but it still didn’t answer my questions. His behavior was hot and cold, push and pull. There had also been what I now know as portentous remarks that were a bit disturbing. He was like a mist that drifted in and out of my life that I couldn’t grab. There was no pinning him down. He was real, yet he wasn’t. Very mysterious. Plus there was way more time spent worrying and trying to figure him out than actually interacting. Exhausting and confusing.

        Then I was having dinner with my mother one evening and she said, I started reading this book. It’s by a narcissist and he’s really creepy. The book gives me chills so I had to stop reading. She told me he was answering questions and the one she happened to mention was about whether or not he would keep the pictures that had been sent to him. Thank God it was dark in the restaurant so she couldn’t see me turn stark white and nearly faint! I thought she knew something. Turns out, she didn’t know but I downloaded that book as soon as I woke up the next morning and started connecting the dots. I haven’t stopped reading HG ever since.

        1. Lorelei says:

          Interesting MB!

  26. Jess says:

    I would monitor from a distance. I dated a ULN and a MMRN both of whom are pitiful when it comes to relationships. I’m more concerned that they would end up with another narcissist and decompensate.

    The Greater however is in his 3rd year with my replacement and they just had a new baby. Even though she was at many events and around the Greater quite a bit while we were together she seems like a sweet person and is absolutely head over heels for him. I worry about her especially since, when I was with him, he repeatedly poisoned me after we would engage in sex. We didn’t have sex often (every 6 mo) and it corresponded with something significant in his life but after every time we engaged in sex I was sick for the entire next day. He always nursed confused and disgustingly ill me back to health and listened to me wonder why it was happening. I was being punished. It was used against me also and he tried to make me seem like a “lush” who couldn’t control my drinking. I had no idea I was being abused until 6 months afterwards. Yes… I am concerned about my replacement. If anything happens to her or her baby I will stand up and say something. He better take good care of them.

    1. Anm says:

      Sorry, he wont take care of them. Hes more likely poisoning them both alread .

      1. Jess says:

        That’s my fear… He almost killed me on a cruise to Mexico. I threw my guts out… If she dies I’m not sure how I’ll forgive myself for not speaking up. This is all ET of course… I know.

        At work I’ll respond to other comments later.

    2. Chihuahuamum says:

      Hi jess…so sorry this happened to you. Its odd he would do that. Do you think he was resentful or felt disgusted in himself for being sexual and punished you? It almost sounds like hed been sexually abused or was gay. Possibly he didnt want you to want sex again for a long time and did this to deter you. Very bizarre. Im sorry you went thru this.

      1. Jess says:

        He was definitely a cerebral and probably felt that if he didn’t sleep with me at all I would know something was up. I think he didn’t want to do it. He was probably disgusted by it. It was really only oral sex anyway mostly. That’s a whole mother sorry all on its own. He was a weird bird…

        1. Jess says:

          *other story

    3. Desirée says:

      oh my god, I have never heard of a narcissist actually poisoning someone, I am so sorry that happened to you. Do you have any idea how he could have done that or what substance could have been used? That’s scary!

      1. Cyn says:

        Omg I had to comment on this sorry to interject but my ex’s wife died of cancer after 20 years with him and I flashed last night wondering if it really was cancer or something worse. He was a psychopath. There were other weird things…. other things he slipped to me about his past, he was 15 years my senior, 65 when I left.

    4. Twilight says:


      “Yes… I am concerned about my replacement. If anything happens to her or her baby I will stand up and say something. He better take good care of them.”

      I am curious you say he is a Greater, what would you do if anything happens? And why are you waiting for the “IF” to stand up and do something?

      The fact is there is no IF yet WHEN. It will happen.

      1. Jess says:

        There is no guarantee that he will use the same manipulation against her. I also have no proof so what am I going to say to her?? I’ve checked her FB and she is all “my love” this and “my love” that… she will not listen to me. He is a highly sought after man in my community a military hero, a landlord and high ranking intelligence officer in the USMC. Not to mention HG’s articles suggest that I do not say anything bc I will not be believed anyway.

        Also, please remember that this girl knew I was with the narcissist for almost two years before she moved in to replace me. I had met her at many different events and such. She has to learn just like I did… Who am I to interfere with that process. I have been checking to look for signs of devaluation but I have seen none. They seem happy. I will not be able to get through to her during a golden period with the Greater.. as sorry as that makes me.

        1. Chihuahuamum says:

          Hi jess…i agree the new lady will not believe anything youd say anyways bc of smearing and her own insecurity and denial.

    5. Anm says:

      No it’s not odd that a narcissist would drug anyone. I just did a thorough background check on my narc ex. His “criminal record” aka Criminal Convictions was clean enough to pass and get a decent job. However, when his police reports were pulled, I found all kind of accusations from women were they claimed he assaulted them and drugged them. The accusations were almost all identical, and part of the problem was that these women that they must have been the only one, so they never pressed charges.

  27. Anm says:

    I went through 4 phases over the years in regards to the narcissist in new relationships.

    1.After the break up, I was completely emotional, and went through the stages of grief over and over.

    2. When he started bringing a woman around me, my ego kicked in, and I was determined to be the hitter one who got away. Not to get back together, but to make him miss me.

    3. My ego was over it, but I wanted to keep tabs on what phase he was in regards to his relationships. I would even check in on the dating sites to see if he check in in a while. =If he hadn’t check in a dating site in over 3 weeks, he was in a golden period with new supply. I then anticipated to be painted black; if he frequently was on dating sites, I knew he was devaluing his current supply, and I would be painted white again. Learning “grey rock” in this phase.

    4. I don’t really care about what he is doing, or how he is going to treat me. I can handle his worst malign campaign against me at this phase. I have even represented myself in court hearings while he had an expensive lawyer, and did alright because I’m just not falling for the bait anymore.

    1. Anm says:


    2. amanda SNapchat Queen says:

      well done

  28. Cathy says:

    I have had this happen and that was enough for me to turn my back and walk away. A week later he wanted to talk, and I said you’re with Kim now, you made your bed, lie in it.
    Although I have tried this with the Narc, the distance allows for him to cause me to doubt this is going on, and makes me feel crazy. I have tried to walk 12 times.
    Btw, I believe the Narc is also into guys. In fact that would explain the misogyny. And some other things.
    I wonder if that’s the deal with many of these Narcs. Secretly gay, but carry some sort shame with that, so try to be straight.

    1. NarcAngel says:

      You should read Sex And The Narcissist. A lot of questions are answered in it.

      1. Joanne says:

        I was just going to leave this same reply to a different comment. The narc(s) I have been entangled with put forth a very alpha, masculine persona. After reading SATN and reflecting on some things that seemed odd, I firmly believe anything is possible.

    2. jessrnny says:

      I’m not sure a narcissist has a sexuality. Fuel is fuel to them. They will take what they can get.

      1. Sweetest Perfection says:

        Yep. But like NA said, it’s all explained in SATN

  29. Susan says:

    I would get him back. With what I know now…. I would thank her for taking him away. Or thank Him for taking him away. I just learned he was cheating on me with men and women. I have known him almost my whole life . Never had a clue that he was into guys.

    1. Vickie says:

      Wow. Your story sounds like mine, but he told me in the past he was into guys. I just didn’t expect it was still going on.

  30. Twilight says:

    I did t say anything to her…..I told her sister she should educate herself on what Narcissism is, someone close to her will need her in time. Not once did I say anything negative about Jon, only pointed the way here with if I am lying you will know the truth after reading his work.

    They chose wisely…….. she was spared some heartache.

  31. E. B. says:

    *Before* gaining understanding about narcissism, I would have done none of the above. I would have thought it was my fault, that the new IPPS is better than me and that I did not deserve him. This was how I had been brainwashed by different narcissists who did not miss an opportunity to humiliate me with hurtful comments when I interacted with them. That was all I knew. I used to believe that their abuse was proof that I had brought it upon myself – so they said. I would have felt devastated and guilty.
    This changed after I learnt about narcissism and other personality disorders.

  32. BonnieLou says:

    I was honest with my response. I did try to derail their relationship by sending a photo of me and him together (in bed!😫) but it was using a fake Facebook account and hopefully Facebook took the account down before she saw it. I would never do that now knowing what I know thanks to HG.
    But at the same time I am seeing this happening in my social and work circles. People blatantly exhibiting their new supply on Facebook so soon after the demise of their previous relationship. So sad.

  33. Desirée says:

    I’ve never been disengaged from and would like to think that I would respond in the same way that I did post escape – lock them out of my life and focus on myself.
    But had I been in the described scenario, my pride would have been hurt significantly. I would have obsessed over why the hell he would leave me like that. I would have then made it my personal mission to make him jealous and regain his affection, so that I could win him back only to then dump him myself in some silly attempt to get one over on him. I’m lucky it never got that far, embarassing to even think about.

    1. strongerwendyme says:

      “before acquiring understanding and insight through me?”

      When I was last IPPS? It wasn’t 1 day though. He married her 10 days after the breakup and texted me to make sure I knew. I wondered why she was chosen and I disintegrated. Clawing my way back is how I accidentally found myself here.

      1. strongerwendyme says:

        Re: ” I accidentally found myself here” makes the Eagles song Hotel California pop into my head “you can check out any time you like, but you can never leave” 🙃

        1. Stronger: Great Song!

          1. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            `Mirrors on the ceiling,
            The pink champagne on ice
            And she said, ‘we are all just prisoners here, of our own device’
            And in the master’s chambers,
            They gathered for the feast
            They stab it with their steely knives,
            But they just can’t kill the beast
            Last thing I remember, I was
            Running for the door
            I had to find the passage back to the place I was before
            ‘Relax’ said the night man,
            ‘We are programmed to receive.
            You can check out any time you like,
            But you can never leave!’

        2. MB says:

          Hotel California! My. Favorite. Song. 😍

      2. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

        Dearest HG: 10 Days sounds like a record for a Narcissist to marry after disengaging from someone.. So shocking. It is amazing our minds survive all this. I am sure many people have lost their minds. It is still amazing to me that I went through life not knowing about all of this, as I look back and see some examples that I did endure. I am glad I am now aware, but so many are not. Like Kiki and Sarah and everyone is saying, it is up to us that know, to enlighten when we can. HG:, it is difficult to enlighten when people do not even know or even know how to discuss what is happening to them. Even most Narcissists are not aware of why they disengage so much compared to the norm. They just know that they can not put up with people that fail them. I had a female friend in the coterie, a somatic, that always bewailed the way men let her down over and over. Almost a new man every week or so. I wanted to help her, but I did not know about Narcissism, and that she was a somatic, with NPD behavior. She victimized believing that she was also the victim. And, in a way, she is a victim, but not in the way she thinks. And it is not normal to go to the computer, HG, to see why one is having a problem with other people in their life. It is bookish to do that, and in the U.S. most people are not bookish and are not into researching, because we largely and even subliminal were taught that to be bookish is negative, square, and nerdy, and not cool, because the country really wanted everyone to be content and to stay put to manage the industrial age and the isolationism that largely brought about the superpower status. I remember when I was a little girl, we were having a special lunch one day. We were to have chicken Kiev. So much butter, etc, spilled out of the chicken that we did not want to eat it, and the Cook said to us all: `See, you never want to go to Russia, because that is what you will have to eat if you go there`. Looking back, all I can say is that chicken Kiev debacle was an unbelievable stunt to pull on us children. The stigma regarding bookish still remained. So the media mocked and bullied the studious children, in movies, etc. I remember when I was a little girl, I would hide and read, and hide in a corner in the library to read, hoping no one would see me and make mockery of me. And I would hide the books that I brought home from the library in grocery bags or whatever, so no one would see that I was bookish. And then call me a bookworm. So many people are not going to research why they feel like they are living in hell. It will never occur to them to research their situation on a computer/Ipad/Cellphone.

        1. strongerwendyme says:

          No doubt he had something started with her before disengaging with me. I just had no idea. Also, this was after he had successfully IGH’d me after a break up 6 months prior by threatening suicide (and graphically explaining how he’d do it). Triggering for me since my first narc boyfriend did kill himself shortly after unsuccessfully stalking me at college. I should have said “go for it buddy”

          1. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Strongerwendyme, I never believe those threats but after reading about your ex I felt really bad! I’m so sorry you had to experience that.

          2. strongerwendyme says:

            Thanks SP. I’m fine. Apparently, I’m “robust” 🙂

        2. strongerwendyme says:

          ??? I’ll have to disagree with you on this inaccurate blanket statement PSE. I personally have never not had a love for books (fiction or non) and research – and all without any negative connotation. I’ve never been mistaken as nerdy, just intelligent (obviously not smart when it counts to narcs, unfortunately). Also not true in general. Most people I know have a love for reading and learning.

          “… in the U.S. most people are not bookish and are not into researching, because we largely and even subliminal were taught that to be bookish is negative, square, and nerdy, and not cool, because the country really wanted everyone to be content and to stay put to manage the industrial age and the isolationism that largely brought about the superpower …”

          1. Stronger. I am making a statement about my experiences. I am not attempting to convince anyone of anything. I grew up in the Midwest in the United States. Middle America it is called. I even had to sing songs in school, growing up, to the corporations such as Wells Fargo and Sugar Companies, and Cigarette Companies. And yes, we were mocked if we were bookish. Also, there were educational maps of the U.S. My mother was on the Board of Education. Maps of what subjects were taught in what States so that the citizenry and their children would be compliant to work in the factories and the industries, especially in the Midwest, and foreign countries were portrayed as unsafe places that hated Americans. So, my statement is blanket for where I grew up. And to this very day, foreigners are at awe when they visit the Midwest, and the Malls, and notice all the fast food places, and the general ennui that still persists. And most of the factories and industries have moved away, and the old oil crisis and the old Savings and Loans crisis, put a real hurt on that part of the country that was left, and many of the people do not know what happened to their way of life that they were prepared for. And many do not want to be retrained and to go to school or go back to school, whatever the case is that is presented to them. And the entire Midwest in the United States is now languishing. Remember the scene in Animal House, the movie, when John Belushi tooked that young man`s guitar and smashed it because the young man was playing some folky tune at that teen party, that was the sentiment towards bookish people when I grew up. And still most Americans are not bookish and most Americans still are not into research, and I stand by that statement as well. And they are becoming less so each decade. And anyone is free to research themselves if anyone is right about anything that anyone says.

          2. strongerwendyme says:

            Interesting. I grew up on the east coast and in the midwest (Chicago area) and didnt experience that. There are a myriad of reasons why our experiences would be different. Thank you for clarifying that it is about your personal experiences.

          3. MB says:

            PSE, (only if you are willing to share of course) Are you a Gen Xer? I was curious if your experiences were due to geography or generation or maybe both. To be one country, the US is certainly very different depending on where you grew up and when. I find this discussion interesting.

          4. strongerwendyme says:

            MB, I’m Gen X ( thus the love for Depeche mode… 😊) my experience growing up in the US (on the east coast and mid-west- Chicago area) was nothing like what was described. Sounds like an earlier generation perhaps.

          5. MB says:

            SWM, I’m Gen X too, but didn’t get the DM gene (ha ha) I didn’t realize you were a fan too! Don’t know how I missed that. I was thinking possibly an earlier generation too as far as PSEs experience.

          6. Sweetest Perfection says:

            MB and SWM, I’m a millennial (insert laughing moronic emoji to add ironic connotation).

          7. MB says:

            Me too 🤣🤣🤣 #unashamed #moronic #emojiuserhere I can only be so compliant! #rebellion

          8. Thanks, I appreciate the fact that it’s your own experience.

          9. Youtube of John Belushi smashes the guitar of folky guy at party: 46 second clip https://youtu.be/8V_hCqO6UQs

        3. Kiki says:


          Yes I can see what you are saying when so many people are unaware even the narcs are not aware .

          Also the word narcissist is thrown around a lot and many would not take anything to do with it seriously.
          Every one from the post person to the old lady down the road is a psycho according to some people today,
          The term Narcissist has lost its clout and everyone and their dog could be one .There are a lot of stupid relationship sites that are doing this .

          I think the internet is probably to blame for this .

          HG is the only true site I think that the reality of it .
          Even if people google narcissistic behaviour or simply abuse there are so many idiots giving stupid advice that it may be hard for some to take it seriousl.

          I remember reading a post somewhere where a guy didn’t call after a first date , he was called a narcissist.Like WTF no that behaviour is not nice but it’s life some guys just do that it doesn’t make them narcs .

          This advice takes the true seriousness of Narcissistic behaviour away.


          1. HG Tudor says:

            Well stated Kiki

          2. Kiki: Also, Society is Narcissistic. And do you know what really bothers me: How many times do I hear people that are harmed being told, to not play the victim. That they are not victims. Or, Oh stop playing the victim. Yet, Narcissists are number one for playing the victim, and for smearing others so that they can appear to be the victim instead of the true victim, and Narcissists are always going about as if others are always at fault. So real victims feel they are playing the victim if they speak about being actually victimized. Victims can barely claim being victims these days without being chastised, so they are afraid to speak up about their victimization. How crazy and Narcissistic is all this? Very.

          3. Samantha says:

            Kiki, I fully agree! About two years ago, I researched Narcissists, but the information I found did not accurately describe the personality disorder, so when I encountered my Narc, I did not recognize the signs! Only when I found HG did I understand that I had been ensnared by a Narc!

          4. NarcAngel says:

            Good point. I think we can be guilty of being a little overzealous even here sometimes with the label narcissist. It can be difficult in determining if a person is demonstrating narcissistic traits or actually has NPD. Not everyone who does shitty things or has wronged us is a narcissist. Note how many people have been been convinced of the School or Cadre of narcissist they were/are with only to have HG determine that not to be the case at all. Or start seeing all their family members or every partner they’ve ever had as a narcissist. It’s very hard to be objective when you are in the situation and I think we can tend to project a bit ourselves. Empaths often say that once they learn what they have been dealing with they see narcissists everywhere, but are they? It may be the case that there are many because narcs and empaths are attracted to each other but I think we may get it wrong a lot of the time and are therefore diluting the term narcissist or detracting from the seriousness ourselves.

          5. Cyn says:

            I’ve been in a narc sandwich. I was in denial before. I was so focused on one I refused to see the other slice of bread lol. But yes some people are just assholes with horrible relationship skills and low emotional intelligence and communication skills who don’t know how to fight fair.

          6. WAF Tudorita says:

            So true – I put the behaviour all around to the Pillars test – is this person’s behaviour CONSISTENTLY showing -entitlement? Lack of accountability? – Lack of empathy? – superiority? -blame shifting ?-attn seeking?

            ( if I think they are MMR or UMR I’ll look for status)
            (( and if I met any I thought were greaters I’d look for omnipotence))

            But I find the first six pillars are the most obvious .
            I always come back to the pillars. I have them memorized always in the forefront of my mind now to look for . Not just with one or two behaviours I mean consistently the person’s behaviours- in general .

            Then look for the manipulations . Or vice versa .

            This way I can explain what I’m saying- to people clearly and coherently. It’s much more effective than just saying “oh he’s a narcissist!”
            Narcissist really is a buzzword -and is being used incorrectly, but I’m really glad it’s coming into the public awareness now.

        4. K says:

          Some of WindStorm’s comments reminded me of Deliverance; she lives in Kentucky and she taught in the schools. If I remember correctly, Dennis Lehane mentioned in an interview that Americans don’t seem to read as much as they used to.

          1. K. Deliverance. A masterpiece of a movie. I doubt if those people used books at all, if they happened to come across any, except to boost their log supply for the fireplace during the Winter.

          2. Lorelei says:

            We have an Airbnb favorite In Louisville (Nulu district) that we love! No Deliverance people around!

          3. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dearest K,
            I truly miss Windstorm …. that beautiful lady had so much to offer here, still does, she’s family ! (I thought you had gone too, for a minute there, K…. 😢)
            Mr Tudor, has Windstorm gone for good, just having a hiatus or unwell perhaps ? Did she say she’d return ?
            Thank you
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          4. HG Tudor says:

            She has been busy with personal matters, she still reads.

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