Why Not Let Me Go?



It is a common question that is asked of me. Why don’t you and your kind just let us be once you have discarded us, why do you have to keep coming back to us, why apply all that effort in hoovering us when you can go and get somebody new and concentrate on them instead? Those are fair queries but they fail to understand the dynamic that is at work in respect of why we keep coming back to you. Here are the reasons why.


1.      Control. As I have explained previously, the Narcissistic Relationship lasts until either one of us dies. We need to remind you that you belong to us. We need to exert our rights under the Narcissistic Covenant and by hoovering you, this is the most blatant and effective way of doing so.

2.      Perspective. You are an extension of us. We attach you to us when we seduce you and suck the fuel from you. We do not truly discard you but instead there is a temporary cessation before we engage once again and continue to draw fuel from you. Since we do not regard you as a separate and distinct entity, but rather part of our powerful and far-reaching selves, we consider you to always be available and thus we keep hoovering you since in our minds you are part of us and thus within reach.

3.      Punishment. In some instances, which is dependent on the type of narcissist you are being punished for your transgressions against us. These transgressions may be numerous but most often they are to do with the fact that you escaped us and/or you failed to provide us with the necessary fuel when required. In order to demonstrate that we are superior to you, we deem it appropriate to punish you and thus you will be hoovered through malign follow up hoovers.

4.      Hoover fuel. This is the chief reason why we hoover. Hoover fuel is very potent, it is edifying and invigorating. Why is this? There is every likelihood that when we seek to hoover you post discard or post escape that you try to resist our overtures. This is because you have been devalued and abused, admittedly it is not always the case as some victims want us back regardless, but there are many who are at best reluctant and at worst determined to resist us. If we manage to draw a positive reaction from them or even a negative one, it reinforces our power over this person and causes the fuel to be even more powerful. If we manage to bring about the resumption of the Formal Relationship, then this is even better. We have emphasised just how much control we have over you and to have you return, either exhibiting joy, relief and thanks, the quality of this hoover fuel is impressive. Even if the victim provides no resistance to our hoover and willingly returns to us, pouring with positive fuel as we have allowed them back into our arms, the fact we know we can treat people the way that we do and they still want us and provide us with fuel results in potent hoover fuel for us as well. Knowing we can still evoke such emotion in people, after everything that we have done, laces the fuel with a particular power.

5.      Investment. You ought to be aware that we have invested our time and energy in you. This may well have been through the preparatory work that was engaged in when we targeted you, working out the relevant traits that you had which appeal to us, assessing your susceptibility to our seduction hoover and so forth. It also includes all of the effort that we put into your seduction and the devaluation thereafter. We know you. We know how you think, how you react, how you respond, how you act. We understand your mind. We know your strengths, your weaknesses, your vulnerabilities and your pressure points. We have ensured that you are attached to us, bound to us and functioning and therefore this solid and substantial investment in you is not just for an initial period of time. It is done so we can rely on this investment, time and time again in the future. We do not want to waste such a significant investment. This should enlighten you as to why it is just not easier to go and seduce somebody else. We have invested much in you and we want the return from our investment again and again and again. We will of course expend effort in securing new investment opportunities but we are not going to forgo previous investments as well.

6.      Compassion. Don’t get excited, I am not going to tell you that you can expect it, quite the opposite. Somebody other than us might decide that you have indeed had enough and move on and leave you alone. However, the fact that we lack compassion and remorse means that we see no reason to leave you alone. Your condition and state of mind are only relevant to us with regard to whether we can draw further fuel from you. We do not care that you are hurting, upset or that you are in pain.

7.      Entitlement. Our significant sense of entitlement means we can do as we please and naturally as someone who was once our primary source you are always going to be subject to the manifestation of this entitlement by us keeping coming back to you, subject of course to the conditions of the Hoover Trigger and the Hoover Execution Criteria which I have written about separately.

8.      Pleading. Do not think that pleading with us for relief, release and clemency will get you anywhere. Not only will this draw no response because of the lack of compassion as mentioned above but because you are providing us with fuel we will want more of it and therefore your pleading is something we want to see, but it will have no effect on us other than to make us want you to continue to plead and beg.

Thus there are several reasons why we will not leave you be and let you move on. We will not grant you the freedom. You have to secure it yourself.

57 thoughts on “Why Not Let Me Go?

  1. Yolo says:

    I just zoomed in on your avatar. Damn, you have some sexy tanned legs. I am on the hunt starting at our dirty beaches. 😊

  2. Whitney says:

    I’m kept up at night with a weird feeling. Piecing together his bizzare world. His facade and inner turmoil.
    I’m confused!
    They do the weirdest things, subversive to human nature. Why why why. I cannot understand this disease.

    I need to consult with HG.

  3. Leigh says:

    I keep hoping my ex-narc will never try and resurrect the formal relationship. So far he hasn’t. Every time I read one of these articles though, it scares the heck out of me and I hope you’re lying. All his hoover attempts don’t actually feel like he’s trying to hoover me. They are always work related and professional. Never about the relationship. Never an apology. Never texts me or calls my personal cell. There has been no attempt to resurrect the formal relationship at all. He disengaged over 5 months ago and I was an intimate secondary source. Do I really have to worry that he will try an resurrect the formal relationship?

    1. Amanda Snapchat 5 says:

      he probably realizes u want the formal relationship so he is doing this to get you. You are confused he does not want you back. stop thinking about him and run. find a none narc. you have a good life ahead

      1. Leigh says:

        I don’t want the formal relationship back. NO WAY! NO HOW! I’d rather stick a hot poker in my eye. My concern is really about whether or not he will hoover because we work together. Right now he hasn’t bothered me but what if he decides he wants the formal relationship back and I reject him? Will he become malign? Will I have to leave my job? It scares the heck out of me.

  4. Britt says:

    Well, I guess it doesn’t matter that I told the narc “friend” I was seeing someone. Or can I be safe to assume he’ll leave me alone for a little while, being as how he is getting some MAJOR supply from his girlfriend.

    Also, is it possible for a narc to be in a relationship long term with another? Im pretty sure his new fuel source is also a narc, just based on the few things I’ve heard about her.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      If he has a new IPPS and that person is in the golden period, your chances of being hoovered will be reduced, but it depends on the other factors in the Hoover Execution Criteria. I advocate that you organise a consultation with me and I can provide you with a more accurate response.


  5. Pati says:

    HG ,So we are the IPPS until one of us dies Does that still count if the Narcissit replaces you with another IPPS?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Yes but you become the Former IPPS.

  6. Whitney says:

    Dear HG, does the relationship last until one dies for the IPSS? Or only the IPPS? Thank you

    1. HG Tudor says:

      For all of those in our fuel matrices, it is only over when you die or we die.

  7. Narc noob says:

    I don’t see it playing out this way in NIP relationships. If there was ever a hoover in the early days, it was by me, then later on – silence. Perhaps I summed them up incorrectly or I haven’t read enough to see that dynamic yet?

    1. Narc noob says:

      HG, is this really applicable to the whole of N dynamics? I can see it playing out with intimate partners but not in other relationships. I don’t see it in my experience of N same sex friendships.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Is what really applicable to the whole of the narcissistic dynamic?

        1. Narc noob says:

          HG, when I referred to the narcissists dynamic I was meaning the fuel matrix. I am having issue with this “why wont they leave me alone” article due to my place as a NIPS with 3 MRN. If there was ever a hoover, post discard/escape it was only from my end, and that was relatively early. After this its just been silence. Social media is the only way they can access contact. I guess I am not dead yet so the potential is still there? I would think the likelihood of this happening since I was never an intimate partner is relatively small however (and a few other factors).

          1. HG Tudor says:

            In board terms your thinking is correct however I do no need more detail and context and would suggest that you organise an email consultation with me so I can assist you further.

        2. Narc noob says:

          Thanks for the feedback HG. Appreciate it. I am glad that in “broad terms” my thinking is correct. I do not beleive the 3 NIP relationships have any hold over me anymore, I grieved their “friendship” some time ago and I am aware I do not wish them in my circle of friend’s any longer. I have normals and empaths now. Of course I didn’t know that is what they were, until I came here. Cheers!

          1. HG Tudor says:

            You are welcome.

  8. empath007 says:

    I’ve been reading your work out loud tonight to a friend who’s involved with their second narcissits… it’s interesting how recovery is so personal and people need to be ready to accept and face the truth. Anyways…. hopefully it helps them. And they can finally accept what’s happening and get the hell out.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you for doing so.

    2. Joanne says:

      So very true. You have to be ready to accept the truth. This month will mark a year since I became involved with the narc. Luckily, I caught on to narcissism as the culprit right after things went awry and thankfully right after that, I found HG. It was helpful back then, but it was still so hard to believe and accept, so I kept up the why why why and the self flagellation for a long time before it finally sunk in. And then I wanted that closure so badly and would become so frustrated that he would not give it to me. It is all so clear now. It takes time. I can’t even imagine what going through this after a “real” relationship that lasted a significant amount of time would look like 🙁

      1. empath007 says:

        It’s amazing (and frankly annoying) how long the affect of dealing with a narc is. Even with explanation, it just never feels quite right. I beleive recovery is definitely possible but takes so much work.

        I wonder if part of it for you Joanne is that you didn’t experince the full relationship… so therefore you’re still wondering what the “good” parts of it would have felt like, such as the sex. Also you probably feel (or felt) some shame due to the affair I would imagine? There are all these loose ends… yet you’re obviously rational and intelligent enough to understand that you don’t want to find out. Yet even being intelligent… your human desires can often blind rational thought process. It’s the common battle… humans have been discussing since Plato and Aristotle started making observations of human behaviours.

        Just keep up the part of you that knows it’s no good.

        I hope I don’t come across badly in this next statement… but… perhaps get to the route of what’s Boring you in your life and what the narc was offering in terms in excitement. I know you have told me you live a good full life (you workout, have a career, wonderful kids good husband) and I believe you. But just because you have all those wonderful things doesn’t mean you don’t crave or desire something. It can be so easy for us to get caught up in our own life and just say we are “happy”
        But maybe you just need a bit of a change… in some sort of aspect in your life… it’s normal need change sometimes. And perfectly OK to go after something new If we want it.

        I know for me I realized I was missing a satisfying sex life. I had no clue I could even like sex. So..
        At least I figured out what I liked.
        Now if only I could find someone who’s not psychopathic to do it with 😄 that would be awesome haha

        1. Lorelei says:

          Hi empath007! Funny you mention the piece to Joanne about wondering more about what the “good” parts would have felt like because there was no “full relationship.” I am taking this reminder a step back and a step forward. In the past, I wasn’t drenched in absolute misery with narcissists other than with my children’s father. It wasn’t pleasant ultimately (my relationships) but we were always friends. It wasn’t awful. Therefore—the wondering for parts of it.. It’s almost created naturally in this way—yet with my former spouse it was so horrible I could never gaze at him in the future and wonder. This is why HG has suggested (I presume) it is easier at times for a wife/girlfriend to move on. I have a visceral disgust for him because I lost so much similar to a drug addict who lost it all vs. the person dabbling in substance who didn’t quite meander into absolute ruin. Taking it a step forward. I know what type I’m drawn to naturally. Past evidence is highly suggestive that my default is to gravitate to a narcissist. It’s absolutely never going to be the case that I suffer the same misery because I know too much, the confusion and bewildered state cannot exist any further. Yet, by choosing to engage in a casual entanglement the result will be permissive of some element of devaluation/abuse. Would I walk up to a stranger on the street and ask to be punched in the face? It likely wouldn’t be a hard “slap” like before but it would be a hindrance to a healthier trajectory—it would diminish my return on this time of self investment. It’s not that I haven’t thought about a dalliance with a dazzling few somatic types at all.. It does disappoint to be celibate now but it’s akin to “sucking it up” so I don’t “suck it up” more by getting slapped emotionally in the near future. It is a thoughtful and intentional approach of achieving a healthier state. I do not like it at all but it’s the bitter medicine worth swallowing. I do detest the length of this process—who would have thought that foraging through weeds would require this much labor! HG—I am paying attention ok. Got it.

        2. Joanne says:

          “Now if only I could find someone who’s not psychopathic to do it with…” This made me laugh then sigh in frustration. Now that my eyes are open, I can see this is so sad but true.

          I also think your assessment of my situation is dead on. The lack of having experienced the “full cycle” or full relationship leaves this feeling of unfinished business. I never got to see the full dark side of him which I truly believe exists. When I see pictures of him now, I see someone different from the person I spent that time with. I still have warm feelings for the person he was for that short time. I can’t even really call it cognitive dissonance because as you said, I know better. Logic > ET yet ET lingers. But yes, the lasting effect of all this is so far beyond annoying.

          And no your statement about change does not come across badly at all. I honestly think the thing that needs to change is me, and my need for male attention and validation. This subconscious need to be noticed by men. When everything fell apart with the narc and I lost all self confidence, I really began to realize how much I relied on this external validation –because suddenly it seemed like I was invisible and it had me shook! So now I am really working on generating my own internal self worth and confidence. It all sounds very vain (and narcy) in itself, but it’s 100% honest 🙁

          I always appreciate your thoughtful comments and inputs, e007 <3

          1. empath007 says:

            I understand, a large part of my journey was realizing that my low self esteem when it came to my looks meant that I was going to by into any idiots lines lol. I am slowly learning to love myself that way again, and appreciate me for who I am. It doesn’t sound narcissistic of you… we all crave validation in one way or another.

            You are strong for getting out ! Be proud of that a lot of people would have kept going down the yellow brick road and hit rock bottom before going back up…. you got yourself relatively unscathed… that’s a major accomplishment in itself. My ET kept me in the relationship for a year! And trust me.. it was not worth it. Always good chatting with you Joanne!

  9. Lorelei says:

    Is this new? I like it. What I really like is how I’m not confused so much anymore and he’s left brandishing the same rudimentary behaviors that feel more and more childish and certainly less thrustful. I am lacking fanfare for the time span of this process for sure—but at least you keep it interesting! Can I graduate by May 2020?

    1. Joanne says:

      I feel like the student that knows all the material, yet skips class one too many times, or gets caught cheating or some other offense, therefore delaying graduation yet another semester due to my own carelessness (breaking NC to stalk social media, feeding ET).

      1. Lorelei says:

        I’m trying not to skip class Joanne—although I did it a few times too many in high school and got shipped ten hours away to a boarding school! I was busy fueling narcy boys at the time. I just think at some point I will want a diploma.

  10. Joanne says:

    “We will not grant you the freedom. You have to secure it yourself.” It all makes so much sense now.

    1. Lorelei says:

      Its lovely Joanne!

  11. misstasia says:

    Does the MRN think or should I say instictevely feel that way, H.G.Tudor?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      “Does the MRN think or should I say instictevely feel that way, H.G.Tudor?” – what are you referring to? If you mean the article, the Mid Range Narcissist feels that way instinctively.

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  13. Bubbles 🍾 says:

    Dear Mr Tudor,
    After not seeing our 88 year old friend for a week, he rang Mr Bubbles to make sure we were visiting on the weekend because he “missed us terribly”
    During the missed week he called an ambulance because he “thought” his pulse was “fluttering” … he was kept in hospital overnight for observation …. there was nothing wrong with him !
    He’s now accused me (along with three others who have a key to his house for emergencies) of breaking into his home and stealing/moving things
    He changed the locks and then said “I have made another key for you”
    I returned the old one and he insisted I have a new key …I declined
    He said he “couldn’t remember” accusing me of theft and breaking in
    He then said “I’m destitute”
    I replied “so are you saying you’re penniless and homeless”
    He frustratingly said “I don’t OWN anything”
    We pointed out “You have your health, family, roof over his head, food in your belly, you’re financially secure and you have us
    He’s still not happy !
    Just when you thought it was safe, our “greater” phoned to invite us for drinks (he was in a mischievous teasing mood)
    If it’s not one, it’s the other! Haha

    Thanks to you Mr Tudor, we know what we’re dealing with and can handle it by being amused and not taking them too seriously
    Another top article !
    Luv Bubbles xx 😘

    1. Lorelei says:

      Hi Bubbles—they do really become funny don’t they? I’m thoroughly amused more than irritated lately. It’s fairly elementary behavior and I’m noticing a shift. For instance, my children’s father owes me a check for expenses. He’s purposely not giving it to me because he wants an even bigger check that I owe him and it’s his bullshit control thing etc. (Long story)
      My check is due to be given to him in October—his was due to be given to me yesterday. I know what he’s doing and I don’t care. I also won’t say a word. His girlfriend wanted to take my kids apple picking and I was only irritated for 30 seconds. (She probably wishes to ferment them for booze because she is gross.)
      Anyway—it’s getting better. Except for the fermenting apples thing—I’m not quite there.

      1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

        Dear Lorelei,
        It’s game playing all the way … isn’t it ?
        Which puzzle piece goes where, who’s on first on what’s on second or what’s on first and who’s on second
        My move or your move… “check” no “check mate”, be nice or challenge me, don’t be nice and I’ll challenge you …..they still win
        I came across this quote…..
        “I see your defective gallbladder and raise you one heart murmur and a kidney stone
        Well Sir, I’ll see your four months in Vietnam and raise you twenty years I spent serving as an air force pilot flying in conflicts as far ranging as Grenada, Somalia,Bosnia and Haiti
        I’ll see your gigabyte and raise you a terabyte ”
        Cheers lovely Lorelei 🍎 🍺🍎🍺
        Luv Bubbles xx 😘
        Ps – he rang Mr Bubbles today and had a friendly narc to man chit chat, apparently all’s great and happy again in Narcland playskool ..haha

        1. Lorelei says:

          It’s cute that you say, “Mr. Bubbles!” I love the name!

          1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dear Lorelei,
            Thank you lovely Lorelei
            It was actually Mr Tudor who referred to him as ….”Mr” Bubbles, we also refer to each other as Mr n Mrs Bubbles at home
            Just another little Tudor touch … hehe
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          2. Lorelei says:

            Very cute!

      2. Anm says:

        Isn’t funny how everyone lives in different parts of the world, and has different cultures?
        Living here, in AZ., apple picking is considered a novelty, and actually a very classy outing for kids, considering there are very few places to pick apples. So I had to wrap my mind around that one for a second to see where you were coming from. Lol

    2. E. B. says:

      Hello Bubbles,

      If you visit them in their home and help them, they may accuse you of stealing from them, abusing them or something else. The narcissist’s false allegations will be taken seriously by the police.
      If you don’t, you can be sued for failing to provide medical assistance.

      With all the information and education received, I would never sign a power of attorney. It can be a dangerous trap.
      Unless you share property, a company or something else with them, I would find someone else to look after them and take care of legal and financial matters.

      G.O.S.O if you want to stay safe.

      1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

        Dear E.B.
        Many thanks for your sound advice precious one, we most certainly will take what you suggest on board – had no idea !
        We suspect the onset of Alzheimer’s or dementia could be a contributing factor in play as well
        He’s independent living and as sharp as a tack
        We will definitely be “on guard”
        Thank you lovely, your comment is most appreciated 😊
        Luv Bubbles xx 😘

        1. E. B. says:

          Hello Bubbles,
          You are most welcome. Yes, I think you and your husband should be on guard – just in case.

          Alzheimer’s or dementia will make their behaviour worse but also elderly narcissists in good health can make you waste your time and part of your life.

          I remember reading stories about the legal dangers of having a Power of Attorney for an elderly narcissist.
          If you are interested, below the title of an article from a caregiver forum you can find with Google search:
          “How should I handle situation where I was threatened with criminal prosecution when my Dad portrayed me as elder abuser and meddler?”

          1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dearest E.B.
            I’ve just read that article …… bloody hell! 😱
            The first line, mentioning attention praise n pity, resonates big time
            He’s a misognist, just like my mum is a misandrist ! He gets on extremely well with Mr Bubbles and most other blokes
            He’s being vitriolic to me, (even though he says I’m special and not like the others) his daughter and his ex wife and all the neighbours in his units, particularly the women
            One of the blokes he has coffee with every morning from his units, mentioned to us he’s getting worse and said he was telling him I knew “his movements” so it would be easy for me to go into his house to steal and move things (forget the fact he leaves his door open when he goes out and the lady in no 1 watches all the comings n goings like a hawk)
            Our friend wanted to include me in his will and make sure his funeral goes the way he wants, cos he thinks his family are out to get him, I affirmitivly said … “no way Jose”
            We’ve known him for over 40 years …. it’s all really very sad
            Thank you so so much E.B. for your help and advice
            I’m sure there are others in the same situation who can relate
            Just when you thought you were safe 😱
            Narcissists! They’re the bane of my life !
            Hugs my lovely
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

          2. E. B. says:

            Dear Bubbles,

            I think you took the right decision. Had you accepted to be included in his will, not only would his family resent you but you would be entering *a legal relationship* with them including narcissists. If your friend includes you in the narcissist’s will without letting you know, you will still be able to reject the inheritance.
            Inheriting assets jointly with his narcissistic family will eventually lead to conflict, especially non-financial ones. Co-owners may have joint liability.

            When I realized what narcissists were capable of, I did everything I could to prevent different kinds of legal involvements with my narc in-laws and family of origin. All documents were legally notarized. I have spared myself a lot of trouble already. I solved legal matters I had control over.

            However, there are other matters I have no control over whatsoever. Those are in the narcissist’s hands. I suffered serious losses and I expect some more to come. Part of my life has been destroyed but I can warn others and help them protect themselves before it is too late.
            Good luck! Love EB xx
            P.S: I agree with Lorelei. “Mr. Bubbles” sounds sweet 🙂

          3. Bubbles 🍾 says:

            Dear E.B.
            I’m so sorry you’ve had to go thru losses as a result and are currently, most distressing for you 😔
            I am very appreciative of your help and warning, it didn’t occur to us that it could be a possibility
            The way our friend is going….. he fell over and landed in hospital for nearly a week, broken teeth, stitches n black eyes
            We were no where near the scene of the accident … hehe
            Mr Bubbles n I have cranked up our armour just in case of any loose flying arrows (haha)
            Hope all goes well for you E.B.
            Hugs my lovely and thank you again … and from Mr Bubbles 👴🏻
            Luv Bubbles xx 😘

  14. Cyn says:

    HG this is something that you helped me figure out; why he didn’t just let it be. In fact even he said he should just let it be but he liked that I would get tired of the treatment and leave, so he could come back and do it again. I remember feeling so tired, giving him all the reasons it wasn’t going to work and just kind of gave in because I was tired of resisting. I remember the last time saying I would only bring back one box of my stuff this time and that when we split again to just throw it away. I did not want it back, did not want any more drama, just to be done. He always said how he had “invested” so much into me, and us. I am so relieved he is “investing” in someone else (although I feel bad for her) now and I am out of sight, out of reach, out of mind.

    1. lisk says:

      Mine also talked abouthow much he “invested” in me. It was a way of guilting me into staying in the relationship . . . until he was ready to discard me.

      1. Amanda Snapchat 5 says:

        he will return. don;t worry 🙂

  15. Amanda Snapchat 5 says:

    i think what i learned the most about HG is that Narcs NEVER LET GO.
    few experts discuss this. They always cover ‘THE FINAL DISCARD” …but man, it’s never final

    I heard some rumors that HG was going to do an analysis of Jeffrey Epstein now that the topic is super hot and he has relationships to all the elite everywhere,
    I think it is a brilliant idea. HG as always being brilliant

    1. Anm says:

      Amanda Snapchat,
      What are your thoughts about his #1 girlfriend, Ghislaine? I think she is a Greater Elite Narcissist who was physically, mentally, and sexually abused by her father. Many of the accusers claim that the pedo ring was orchestrated by her. I think she got off on the power and control she had over men like her father, and she didn’t have any empathy for the victims involved. Some of the victims said that she had a crude sense of humor- I think to escape accountability. Even with this scandal, she will escape prosecution, and will even maintain her support system and friends.

  16. alexissmith2016 says:

    HG, are the mids who believe they are greaters more likely to do a personality test on you? of the six I know rather well, four have done so. the other two a fair amount of ‘get to know you’ type questioning. I’ve not noticed this among other Ns to the same extent. I’m guessing this is because they have a little awareness and think they’re being clever by testing out your personality at an early juncture. Before I knew what Ns were I would happily oblige and had no idea this was even an N ‘thing’. But post finding you, it is an observation I have made. I’m guessing empaths are interested in this type of thing too, so I don’t mean it to determine they are an N. These are 150% confirmed Ns based on all the red flags they hit and this just seems to be an extra thing these types do.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      If you mean, would a Mid Range Narcissist who believes they are a Greater be more inclined to subject their victim to some kind of personality testing, the answer would be yes, in order to either
      1. Use the process to draw information which would be used to control the victim (instinctively) since the Mid Ranger would think it is being done purely out of interest , and/or
      2. To use the outcome to control (instinctively) the victim, since the Mid Ranger would regard the outcome as being used to defend him or herself against the aberrant behaviour of the real victim.

      1. alexissmith2016 says:

        Thank you so much for this HG! And the additional explanation as to why they would gather this information.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are welcome.

      2. Narc noob says:

        HG, in reference to your response to Alex above, is there such a thing, a MRN thinks he is a GN even when they don’t have the recognition of what they are and react with instinct?

        1. HG Tudor says:


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