The Greater Narcissist


This is a Greater Narcissist. There is much to write about the Greater, but for now, a snapshot shall have to suffice. We have met Lee the Lesser and Malcolm the Mid-Ranger. There are lots of Lees and Malcolms. Lots of them. In fact most people who have ascertained that they have been ensnared by a narcissist will have entangled with either a Lee or a Malcolm. This is Greg, Greg the Greater, a rare beast indeed.

“Hello, what was that?” asks Greg.

“Hello Greg, I was just explaining that you are a rare beast indeed.”

“Oh completely, how good of you to notice and may I say just how delightful you look today, you have done something different with your hair haven’t you, it really suits.”

I cannot help but smile and look pleased at this remark. I know I shouldn’t but this is the problem with the Greater, they are ever so charming and before you know what has happened one has given them some fuel, told them something they wanted to hear or agreed to do what they want.

The Greater exhibits considerable charm. Charm is one of his prevalent weapons. With the Lesser it is raw aggression, with the Mid-Ranger it is the ability to draw sympathy, but with the Greater he uses charm to achieve what he wants.

His charm manifests in many ways. Courteous, polite, amusing, well-read, urbane, complimentary and attentive. But this charm is a combination of considerable intelligence, confidence and planning. Out of all of the three schools of narcissist, the Greater knows the benefit of planning and scheming. He is always gathering information, storing it away, logging it for later or immediate use.

“You are the master at gathering information aren’t you Greg?”

“How very kind of you to say so and I cannot deny that,” he responds with that slow and engaging smile of his. See how he holds my gaze, boring deep inside of me? Of course he is just reflecting back at me what I want to see, after all, he is an expert in the art of seduction. He is an expert in most things, he has to be, the world cannot be afforded any glimpse of weakness, any hint of the loss of his control. He must project an image of success at all times.

Greg knows that the foundation of his success lies in planning and preparation.

“Greg, what is your view about preparation?” I ask.

“Every battle is won before it is ever fought,” he responds in a matter of fact. He is deadly serious. To him, every engagement in his life is a form of battle. Every person he interacts with, every situation he faces, every scenario he is engaged in – all of them are battles and he has to win every one. Even if he appears to lose, he will have allowed that to happen for the sake of a future win.

Greg knows that to forge his rightful and entitle path through life he must secure these victories and win. He does so by ensuring he knows his enemy. Everybody qualifies to be an enemy because the Greater knows that the world is against him and if he gives any quarter, this cruel and heartless world will seek to topple him. He may be a Greater but the wariness and paranoia applicable to all narcissists is just as applicable to him. Greg understands that he has to know who he is dealing with and this means gathering intelligence.

By the way, than unflinching stare has remained focussed on me. The attention from this handsome individual is both unnerving yet oddly engaging. He uses his eyes a lot. Do not think however that when he is staring at you, mirroring your own desires, so you become trapped like a deer in the headlights that this is all he is doing. No, not at all. He is evaluating, considering his next move, what to say next, gauging how I will respond. The Greater’s mind is always whirring, thinking about the next move, ascertaining how to seize the most appropriate advantage. Normal people would find it exhausting but not the Greater for he, among all of the narcissistic brethren has the greater energy levels. This of course means he has the highest demands for fuel but he is also the most effective at gathering this fuel. This effectiveness manifests in two ways. The first is the methodology applied and the second is the range of appliances at his disposal.

The Greater has the widest range of manipulations at his disposal. He is well-practised and able to match, with considerable accuracy, the best forms of manipulation to his victims. Of course he relies on understanding his appliances, knowing what they like and dislike in detail and achieves this through extensive information gathering through his own questions, the use of Lieutenants, conducting background searches and so on. He has had many victims and therefore knows how certain types of person are likely to respond to certain manipulations. Admittedly, he will not get is right every single time, but his error rate is very low indeed. His effectiveness is heightened through how driven he is. He must succeed, be the best, be the sparkling diamond at the centre of the crown. Leader in his field. Champion. Conqueror.

Like a master artisan, he selects only the finest materials (victims) on which to work and then he applies his deft touch through carried manipulations from his Devil’s Toolkit. All of this is done enveloped in charm. He has people do things because they want his praise, his approval, his largesse, his friendship and is love.

The Greater also has extensive fuel networks on which he relies. Unlike the Lesser who has a narrow fuel base or the Mid-Ranger who has a wider one with numerous appliances, the Greater has an extensive and impressive network. Let’s find our more from Greg.

“Hey Greg, who is warming your bed at present?”

“Why are you interested?” he asks as he places a hand gentle on my arm.

“Oh this is professional purposes only, “ I respond trying to rebuff him, but the hand remains unmoved. He is confident and assured.

“I am ever the professional.”

“I am sure that is the case, but tell me, who is on the arm of Greg?”

“I have a girlfriend at present.”

“Just the one?”

“Yes, but there are others, certain ladies who know me well who I can call on if I need to.”

Those are his intimate partner secondary sources, his friends with benefits and booty calls.

“How many?”

“Four,” he replies without hesitation.

“What about your friends?”

“I have six guys I regularly knock around with, plus two good female friends.”

Those are his inner circle.

“Then maybe another twenty or so people I know well through golf, football, the pub, you know, I see them every so often.”

Those are his outer circle. More secondary appliances.

“What about work and family Greg?”

“Well I head up a department at work so I have a team of eight working for me and I am on good terms with the other directors.”

More secondary sources there through colleagues.

I let him continue as he explains how he is well regarded by his family (more secondary sources), his neighbours, people in his community, the people he knows through a charity he is a trustee of (lots of tertiary sources). His network of fuel appliances is vast and he can rely on it regularly to ensure that his considerable fuel needs are catered for. It is rare to find a Greater running short of fuel.

The Greater knows what he is. His higher cognitive function allows him an awareness. He may know that he is a narcissist, since it has been pointed out to him and his increased cognitive function means he can understand and relate to it. Of course, he knows not to admit this to anybody, unless he sees a distinct advantage in doing so. In some instances he may not know that he is a narcissist but he certainly knows that he is different from other people. He knows he is special, talented and destined for continued greatness. He knows that it is necessary for him to control his environment and people, for if he does not do so, he feels weakness gnawing at him, unease and the threat of the loss of his superiority. He knows that he must maintain this edifice that he has built and this is done through having people react to him. He may not know it as fuel, but he knows how important it is for people to respond to him. He knows he must receive admiration and anger, love and loathing, adoration and abhorrence. These power him and allow him to achieve the things he knows he is entitled to. He recognises he does wrong, but does not care. He knows he has no conscience, no sense of guilt, he knows he has a reduced emotional repertoire because from years of observing and listening – as opposed to just doing as the Lesser and Mid-Ranger does – he has learned what he does not feel, not that it concerns him in any way.

Greg knows that charm, manipulation and persuasion are they key attributes to staying number one and having people do as he wants. He wants to own people, make them his, subsume them into him and he understands why this must happen, because it makes him all the more powerful, all the more effective and all the more able to keep his creature locked away and never heard. Greg knows that his Machiavellian nature, his duplicitous nature and slavish devotion to the doctrine of the ends always justifying the means, results in him staying on top of the pile. He is proud of his orchestrations, his status as Supreme Puppet Master. He knows that people are there to do his bidding, to be moved where he wants them to go, to carry out his wishes and best of all, they often do not even realise that they are doing it.

Of course, Greg is no fool and understands that when the velvety caress of his subtle manipulations is not working, then the iron fist must be deployed. He has no reluctance to dole out his innate wickedness. He will ensure that this is either done through a proxy or if it must be by his hand, then he will reduce the risk of retribution and consequence to him. He evaluates. When that apparently loving gaze becomes the inky dark stare of malice, the whirring mind is plotting to ensure a most malevolent outcome for those that cross him. Whilst the Lesser and the Mid-Ranger will act with malice, theirs is nothing to the concentrated vitriol that the Greater possesses and will unleash when he deems it appropriate. This is another factor which sets him apart from his brethren ; the sheer evil that he is capable of and that will be readily applied in order to preserve his position.

The Greater will pursue for longer, hoover harder, use more energy, charm more fiercely, devalue with scathing intensity and channelling the vast amount of fuel he can draw on from the extensive fuel network, this powers this effective machine as he achieves his machinations. The Greater calculates the impact of his words, either to seduce or to devalue. He assesses the likely responses of those he wishes to control and the likely benefit for him. For him there can be no end, the games must always continue and he must always be wining and be seen to be winning.

The Greater may often be hard to detect because he is most capable of exhibiting cognitive empathy. He has studied and knows how to mimic with considerable conviction, but this is not a perfected art. He will be prone to those pauses when he is ascertaining his best response and that sudden frozen look will appear, albeit momentarily. The Greater is also hard to detect because he will engage in what appear to be good works. The Lesser is self-centred in a brutal and demanding manner, the Mid-Ranger is self-centred in a sulky, feel-sorry-for-me style but the Greater, well the Greater will show generosity, be charitable and appear to exhibit kindness. He will hold positions of authority, trust and responsibility. They are put part of the carefully constructed façade on which he relies more than any other type of narcissist. He builds this façade, cements it and uses it repeatedly. His apparent good works are but a veneer of respectability which are either:-

1.      Committed because there will be a distinct gain arising from this act in due course – for example, lending someone money to then have them repay him through actions and loyalty ; or

2.      Part of furnishing the façade and thus a worthy sacrifice for the maintenance of this artifice.

Be in no doubt that this apparent sugary surface coats a venal and vicious individual who will never stop in the pursuit of victory. Cruel, perverse and utterly self-serving, behind that engaging smile and warm handshake is a cold and calculating mind.

Of course Greg would never admit to any weakness, unless as usual, he saw an advantage in doing so, but he has them. Like all of his kind he hates criticism. It burns and wounds and he uses his considerable control to keep his fury under control. Furthermore, the innate confidence and superiority that Greg has means that an objective observer will regard him as not necessarily appreciating certain risks to the extent that he might. Naturally, Greg would reject such a suggestion as failing to understand, however, there is an over-confidence which exists, which might, not always, but might lead to occasional difficulties for Greg the Greater, although of course he is equipped to address those difficulties using his customary charm, malice and manipulation.

41 thoughts on “The Greater Narcissist

  1. Sarah says:

    Yes ChiM,

    These thoughts have crossed my mind many times as I have considered the level of intention and calculation in N’s manipulation. I have had a fear that someday he may harm me, however in-spite of this he is not a violent man. I have heard him on occasion dress others down, however I did not endure this treatment in all our years of friendship or as an IPPS. My devaluation was a covert operation as he selfishly gratified himself all over town.

    My escape wounded N and the face-to-face Hoover after so many years of me in hiding unsettled me (a lot). He wanted me to know he had not forgotten me and he wanted the power; he knows my weaknesses even though there are also strengths. I hope life does not turn out too badly for him as it is only then he will cast his mind back to what I have done (his perspective).

    There is a score there to be settled from his perspective and he is patient, my fear is revenge will come but it may not. I do not subscribe to paranoia even though I can name my fears. Let’s face it, based on his previous patterns of behaviour, he will be very busy sleeping around with his multiple women and 3 mobile phones!!

  2. NarcAngel says:

    Have you watched Phantom Thread with Daniel Day-Lewis? He portrayed what I believe to be an excellent portrayal of a Greater In action and I wonder if I got that right or I need further study. It shows the dynamic from ensnarement to devaluation and a fast forward of the salami slicing in effect along with how the empath projects hope. Or at least that was my perception. His sister Cyril is interesting also.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No, I have not seen that film, NA. I shall have to look it up.

      1. NarcAngel says:

        Re: Phantom Thread

        I know time does not allow for you to see all of the things we suggest so thank you for your consideration. I also raised it because I think it’s a great example of the dynamics in play for empaths to study with the knowledge they’ve gained here.

        I found it interesting that Lewis chose it for his (supposed) last film.

        Let me also say here that I have found it hard to keep up with reading the comments lately never mind you having to respond. You really are the hardest working man in Narcissism and it is greatly appreciated.


        1. HG Tudor says:

          Thank you NA. There is a lot to convey to you all and many people requiring assistance to understand what has befallen them. It has to come from the best, which is me and there is only one of me. I have made a note about that film to track it down and watch it whilst I am allow-roasting a minion over a fire fuelled by burning copies of 50 Shades of Shite.

          1. Violetta says:

            I tried to read EL James just to see what all the fuss was about. Couldn’t get through the whole thing and still don’t see.

      2. Sweetest Perfection says:

        But I listed it in the poll on narcs in film! Excellent movie, I was losing my mind with the behavior of the male character until I read your work. Then I watched it again and I understood many things, including the “culinary” aspect towards the end.

    2. Just watched the trailer NA – looks really good! I’ll have to watch this. Thanks

    3. WhoCares says:


      This sounds interesting; I’m going to add it my list of “to be watched” movies. I like Daniel Day-Lewis as an actor.

    4. Caroline-is-fine says:

      I saw “Phantom Thread” and thought it was a GREAT example too, NA. 😎

  3. Sarah says:

    Renarde, thanks for your message. There were many serious indicators with N in his adolescence but of course that is retrospective given as a child there is a tendency to label behaviours but not people. His diagnosis is NPD with Psychopathic traits and I believe for the most part he born that way.

    Your examples both demonstrate the kind of strange unease derived from a relationship in which you do not yet fully understand the context. It often takes a while for people to reveal themselves. As we get older we tend to have a better understanding of the multitude of complexities of others. When we are younger and examples like this arise it is very unsettling to say the least. Context and experience helps us to make peace with these experiences.

    The teddy bear on your grandparent’s grave – you mentioned you have a better understanding of that situation now. What do you think occurred and why? I’m assuming there was an N involved.

    1. Renarde says:

      Hey Sarah.

      No teddy bear involved. Why did you think that?

      PN attempted to block the funeral. I stopped him because frankly the money for the funeral would have been taken out of his estate. So PN wouldn’t be out of pocket. The funeral went ahead and he behaved like an utter fucking tosswipe. Standard.

      He’s about to do the same trick again. Except this time he WILL attempt to pull the ‘victim card’. People will fall for it to. That’s the sad thing. He will play ‘The Wounded Soldier’ card. Cunt.

      PN has bought so much misery to so many people. Largely women. And the cunt is still walking about. All breathing like. He is so fucking sure he understands Empaths. He is gambling now that I wont do anything because my poor mum (who he has cheated on for probably about 45 years) will be denied her chance to pay her respects.

      Fact of the matter, funerals are not for the dead, They are for the living and they are largely excuses for mawkishness. Which is misplaced. My other Godmother died a few years ago. Her husband attempted to flirt with me at her funeral. I was horrified by that and I still am,

      Thank you for your comment though, Sarah.

      1. Sarah says:

        Hi Renarde,

        Sorry, I replied to the wrong comment! The ‘teddy bear’ was referencing the toy which got stolen when your car was stolen. It certainly did not make sense within the context of this post.

        PN sounds ghastly – what a chaotic, whirlwind of a person to have been involved with. Your mum has been through hell with this guy – it must be very difficult for her to release these trauma bonds now that he is gone. I am glad you are so tuned in to her needs; I agree, saying goodbye to him in her own way after all these years is important.

        I am sorry for the circumstances you have been forced to navigate, but I wish you all the best.

        1. Renarde says:


          Unfortunately, PN is still in our sphere.

          Why Goddess does he not die!!! Please? I want to go and piss on his grave!

          I’ve had a very disturbing evening. My ex took the kids hundreds of miles away. Denied me the chance to say goodbye. He hasn’t even given me their address. I have parental responsibility therefore he SHOULD tell me.

          Ahh, it’s insane and gone beyond rational thought. In a court of law, he cannot logically justify what he has done.

          Hes as guilty as a puppy sitting next to a pile of poo. Running off, hundreds of miles away is immaterial. The court will pull him back . Or the police will. Hopefully both. Terribly helpful if his Uni strips him of his Eng D (Yours truly bought, paid for and supported)

          Weird thing happened tonight. I couldn’t call the police on their 101. Said I had no minutes. So I called my buds. Yup. Ok. Call 101. Not ok. Four times.

          My no has obviously been flagged.

          Called my mum. Said I was being silly. I needed to calm down. Turns out ex had taken the kids to them yesterday and not one of them mentioned my name. Not one. No one stuck up for me. Not even my mother.

          How my own mother can let her daughters rapist into her house is utterly beyond me. Shes fucked in the head. Utterly fucked.

          I pointed out to her that THIS is getting out and if she continues this course of action, she will be MASSSIVELY judged.

          She already has been. Now it’s just a question of scale

          So yes, you’ve met an Empath who made a Greater run. Pity. I’d tear the world apart before I’d lose my children.

        2. Renarde says:

          Hey Sarah

          Ok, I understand. Thanks for clarifying.

          I’ve given a good solid day to thinking about this and the conclusion I’ve drawn is that it was PN. He stole the car and abandoned it. There were three cars on the property. All equally likely (from a mad teenagers POV to be stolen) and considering one was a Capri….Nah makes no sense that you’d go for the Metro. No sense at all.

          Of course, PN helped me to repair the damage. Self satisfied smug git.

          It’s very hard to convey what it’s like to live with a G. Their golden periods are brilliant. But the devalue is incredible.

          At that time when my car was stolen, I was on the cusp of escaping. Honestly, I didnt perceive it that way at the time. I was just exploring my nature. I would never have abandoned them yet I think PN thought I would. This would then explain how much he started to slap me. Call me a slut. I think once he followed me and my partner and watched us in my boyfriends car having sex.

          Hes been watching me for years. Following me and especially on Fetlife.

          Yup my own Dad has taken more than a prurient interest in my sex life. Sick.

          Unfortunately, my mum is utterly brainwashed. Whilst I do not doubt that she loves me, she is torn between doing the right thing and living an easy life.

          Last night, she allowed my rapist into her house. With my children. No one told me until after the event. I asked if anyone spoke my name and they did not. No one. Broke my heart.

          The ONLY link to my parents is through me. I’ve been airbrushed from history. Sometimes I wonder if my mum thinks that my children are actually hers. (Shes done something like this before).

          Just like my Godmother who recently died, I’m inconsequential now. A ghost in the system.

          I strongly suspect that PN tried it on with the tearing beauty that was my Aunt. This would explain how she ran far away. I also suspect he got her youngest lad removed from her. Out of spite. What she had suffered….simply because she said no.

          I told mum tonight that it’s gone too far. Way too far. I know too much and it’s now coming out. My mum was not there to save me from what he did. Even now, shes still denying that both my brother and I was abused. Shes fucked and I realise now I cannot help her.

          She doesn’t seem to care that I’ve tried to commit suicide three times in ten years. I wont do it again. I’m fact, she gets very angry when I explain what I’ve tried to do. Of course shes angry. Death means an inquest. The spotlight of the Court will shine on them. And that can never happen.

          Honestly? I dont know how she sleeps at night. But then again, shes on antipsychotics so who knows?

          Btw, PN controls her meds. Heh.

  4. Renarde says:

    And now Friday serious. I am now at a point where I can see history about to repeat itself.

    For context and colour, my father is a LGCN.

    When I was 17, I had the most tumultuous year. I gained GCSE’s, attended college, lost the last two remaining grandparents and my mum was committed to a psychiatric ward. This was in the space of a MONTH. (Not the GCSE’s)

    Long story cut short. My maternal GF lived with us and PN horrifically verbally abused him. Before callously depositing in a home where he died. PN’s mum had died, quite suddenly. Then GF died (probably a rare example of a E – CD). Both were empaths.

    He refused point blank to hold a funeral and gathering. Literally a basic.

    I went absolutely toe-to-toe with him. Over and over again. GF deserved a place where his friends and family could celebrate his life. The funeral and celebration was held. I got my way.

    What sickened me was when he stood up to say a speech about his life, he made out as if they were best friends. Beyond nauseating and in my book, ONLY a Greater would be so fucking bold as to do that. And only a Lower Greater would risk it.

    And he’s not going to get away with it. His stock is about to tank.

    My Godmother, my mothers’ sister has just died. Shortly before my birthday. Not unexpected but she was old and had been in poor health for years. PN is about to run the same trick. Again. He hated her. Why?

    She was a good woman who was a thoroughly broken empath and had been for years. She loved me and I loved her. She had lost 2 out of her 5 children. She had known heartache beyond measure.

    Because thanks to the elucidation of HG, I have been predicting PN’s movements with quite a stunning degree of accuracy for a good couple of years now. There were always things about that side of the family (my aunts’ husbands) that I never really understood how PN acquired the knowledge he did on intimate ‘events’. HG’s work has shown me how he knew. Frankly, he got her husband drunk and that was that. The rest he logically pieced together. It’s fascinating. That’s a G manipping a L.

    Sauce for the Goose is sauce for the Gander. Cos I ‘know’ shit too. You dirty bastard.

    But what am I going to say? And to whom? What triggers am I now about to pull? And where?

    Questions. Questions.

    I’m not fully settled on the options therefore hopefully no one can predict it. Hmm.

    Just spoken to parents. PN was reluctant to go on the phone. So I asked my dear mum to pass on a message..

    Say this Mum,

    ‘[Your fathers’ name]’. I repeated it a couple of times before adding…


  5. Susan says:

    Apparently I provoke the N i deal with bc the malicious behavior and vitriol used craftily and there is no doubt he is a greater. The only way I know for anyone to deal with someone who actually wants to destroy you is to go no contact.

    No contact is not really no contact for a short period of time as I had to allow email as the only form of contact until we settle an inheritance issue. (I stand to lose a great deal of money if I ignore this). I respond to any inheritance issues but not to unrelated messages. It’s funny bc if wishes to berate or belittle me, he sends an email to me only if he doesn’t, he will include my sister on the message. He keeps the inheritance emails separate from the Hoover emails. He recently emailed asking if I was only going to respond to inheritance related emails. I didn’t respond.

    Some Hoover’s are really comical. Yesterday, he sent a nasty inheritance message. Followed immediately by a second email to showed a beautiful sunset. Naturally, the picture of the sunset was not a peace offering but rather a one up attempt because he is there. Ha. It’s 98 degrees where he is with a major drought. I’m on a mountain trip with a temp of 62 and my cabin over looks a waterfall! So do I tell? NO. Do I send him a picture? NO. I don’t respond at all.

    The next email about the inheritance will be brutal. But the inheritance issue will soon be settled and I will Get away/stay away.

  6. Claire says:

    HG, can an empath or a normal individual resist the charm of a Greater?
    As you wrote only 5% of the narcissists are Greater so I have encountered only one person who fits the criteria.
    Well read and educated – tick
    Wealthy – tick
    Famous – tick
    This person is a very popular and talented medical professional.
    Some of his outer circle friends were politicians.
    Over confident, thinking for himself as a god.

    Being twenty something back then I resisted his charm because I was not physically attracted to him. Of course some of the other medical staff thought I might be really stupid to refuse his advanced while some other warned me about his character traits as they had the misfortune to work at his department and being treated like a crap .
    Despite of lack of physical attraction I must admit it was hard to resist because I was mesmerised by his profession skills and intellect.
    The first conversations with him were kinda testing my intelligence in subtle manner before asking me out.

    I believe he is a Greater but I might be wrong .

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Use this to find out for sure

      Can our charm be resisted? Yes, but only by those who have access to my work and apply it and then it takes considerable effort.

      1. Renarde says:

        Ha! Your work is brilliant but once I did resist a G who threw himself to me (On me? At me?) on my birthday.

        He went home empty handed. Pity. He was a Great shag!

        See what I did there!

      2. Claire says:

        Thank you for the prompt answer HG!

  7. Renarde says:

    For you HG.

    Friday fun x

  8. kel2day says:

    My office has all grades of narcissists working there, would be a great place for a therapist to intern at to gain knowledge about narcissism. The boss is a textbook greater, he is aware, I believe from a marital intervention years ago, not that he comes out and talks about it, but he has skirted around it. There’s one at the office that I consider as a lesser, he’s successful and charming even- it can be fun to listen to him quickly ramble out so much talk- charming you, boasting about himself, and he has a sense of humor- but he’s more obvious, he’s a textbook narcissist too – some people roll their eyes about him. When I first started there, he took me to the office Christmas party, platonically, as he’s married and his wife was out of town, and then afterwards he wanted to make out, wanted to go to my house, was kissing me, and finally let me go- I had to tell my managers because he wouldn’t leave me alone. We got through it and he stopped. He worries me sometimes because he seems like he’s lost it psychologically, he will do some really crazy things, that no one seems to concern themselves about- well most are narcs I guess. Loads of mid rangers there all in different flavors, one is always smiling and happy and I think of her as a dolphin because that’s what her constant laugh sounds like, most people don’t know how she’ll talk behind backs or realize she’s head of a clique.

    The greater though is not the kind of narcissist I ever want to come up against again. They are all con men, but he is so good at mirroring you that you enjoy talking to him like no one else. Mid rangers are more obvious about agreeing with you so that you catch on eventually. But greater’s never show a seam in their mask, they will avert your attention, throw some word salad, but you will always feel like this person sees eye to eye with you, understands you, and that you can say anything to him. I overlooked red flags with him from the beginning, because I didn’t know better. I’m opposite of a narcissist, I have morals, I can’t go along with the wrong things they do, but that doesn’t stop me from being a victim to the smooth skills of a greater. They engage you on any level. Even his assistant for a year now who tells him she’s immune to his charms, tells me she sees him as an older man, she’s a normal, still I’m sure she actually is caught up with him more than she realizes. I see how she lights up talking with him, I see the tinge of jealousy here and there, although she is better at hiding it, better at not going overboard.

  9. lisk says:

    Would a Greater ever consider himself a victim?

    My Narcx is very charming and witty and he “certainly knows that he is different from other people. He knows he is special, talented and destined for continued greatness.”

    But somehow he has never reached—or reaches that greatness—and it’s always someone else’s fault.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      All narcissists have a victim mentality however a Greater does not utilise it in the way that Lesser and especially Mid Range would.

      1. Renarde says:

        True but PN is playing that fucker like a one-armed bandit in a frontier town where they only serve whiskey.

    2. WhoCares says:


      Did you see the discussion around Greaters and a victim mentality in the A Very Popular Narcissist thread?

      You might find it of interest:

      1. lisk says:

        Thank you very much for the link, WhoCares. That is helpful. I do think that Narcx is not a Greater, as I did witness many Pity Plays as his IPPS.

        1. WhoCares says:

          You’re welcome, lisk. I think it is a fairly regular occurrence to suspect to believe that one’s narc is a Greater, until better understanding is achieved and more distance from the entanglement.
          And, ugh – the pity plays…yes, mine was excellent at eliciting sympathy.

          1. HG Tudor says:


          2. WhoCares says:

            Thank-you HG. I think I really see how this plays out since I’ve watched it with a real life friend as she’s grasped your work and seen emotional improvement. She almost had me doubting my understanding of the schools. And I gained a greater appreciation of your expertise.

  10. Sarah says:

    I am unsure what type of narcissist the N was as I have never completed a Narc detector consult. I am commenting on this post as HG’s reference to expertise in “information gathering” struck a chord with me.

    When we were 16 years old, I was snooping through the N’s bedroom and I found an exercise book. Within the book was a very long and detailed list of all the girls he had taken an interest in, dated, been intimate with etc as a teenager. The list was literally pages long. There were notes made against each of the girl’s names (likes, dislikes, hobbies, parent’s names, comments about their physical appearance). There was also a single comment as a head note next to each name.

    The level of detail was eerie, some of the comments even more so but I couldn’t tear my eyes away from the pages despite a feeling of sickness in the pit of my stomach. I read every single entry at least a dozen times. I poured over every word analysing what it meant and recoiling at the objectification seeping from this list. I was both captivated and repulsed. So many names I recognised and was shocked to uncover, so many secrets and so many lies.

    So, what had been penned as a head note against my name? Sarah (and my last name as there were at least 20 Sarahs on the list) – “Best Package Deal”. Boy does that make a lot of sense now I am an educated victim (best fuel, character traits and residual benefits aka a willing victim). Thankfully those words no longer ring true.

    1. WhoCares says:

      That is disturbing, to say the least, Sarah.

      1. Sarah says:

        WC, yes it was concerning back then, but it is even more so with hindsight and no charming, manipulation to explain it away.

        1. WhoCares says:


          May I ask how he charmingly explained that away?

          1. Sarah says:

            WC, it’s a great question. He normalised it within the context of teenage boy behaviours e.g., all of them do it and he has nothing to hide. He then spent the next couple of hours making light of it with entertaining narratives of his experiences as detailed inside the book. I was not his girlfriend at the time, I wouldn’t go out with him when we were teenagers as I was worried he would break my heart. He worked really hard to gain my trust over the years. His words or explanations would lose their effect when written on paper but he always had a personality that could draw you in. He was extremely magnetic; until of course you know what he is!

          2. WhoCares says:

            “Within the context of teenage boy behaviours” …that makes sense, Sarah.

            I explained away so many of mine’s behaviours within a specific context – usually cultural differences.

            Yours certainly sounds like a charmer. Thanks for explaining.

    2. Renarde says:

      Hmm that’s an intriguing post Sarah. I’ve personally never come across stuff like that but I know it must go on.

      The problem you have is that the boy was 16 and may not have come into his own awareness (if he was destined to go down that path) therefore it would be difficult to diagnose school based on that. There nay be other traits that might point you in a direction but essentially, he would have been too young.

      The ONLY thing that has come close for me is that there was a new lad to my school. Had been in a horrendous car crash and as a result had a physical deformity. Not serious but enough to get him bullied. And he was. He ran away from home.

      So it was with great surprise one summer hol morning, when I was woken up to Ma yelling,

      ‘Ren! Wake up! The Police are here!’


      Turns out, he had run away from home and the Police (finally doing their fucking job) were calling on all people who was in his address book which he had left behind. My name and address were there so naturally they called and asked what I knew.

      I was shocked. I knew nothing and although I had talked to him, I wouldn’t say we were friends. He was found and brought home. No idea what became of him.

      Now I’m on a roll. I was 16 then. When I was 18, I had my first car. Bloody loved it. Had great shagging in that car. It was my independence. Again one summer morning, I woke up to again, the Police at the door. My poor car had been stolen! Officer was lovely and explained it had been found at the local (Catholic) church. Abandoned. But drive-able.

      What upset me was not that my car had been stolen, I had it back. It was that a cuddly toy that my best mate had bought me had been nicked. As I pointed out to the officer, why steal a car then abandon it but take the toy and not the stereo? Made ZERO sense.

      However, where it was found did. It was where my grandma had been buried the previous year.

      I’ve not thought of these events in years. Neither made sense. I think the car one now does though…

    3. Chihuahuamum says:

      Hi sarah…thats so eerie looking back now and knowing why he wrote all that info. He was researching and mastering his craft of npd.
      Ive had similiar moments when i look back on the narcs behaviours or things he had said. He was aware i wasnt! Now i am 😁

      1. Sarah says:


        So very true – the gift of awareness is ours now! Nothing is ever the same once you know the real deal. Hindsight and recalling the situations that felt off but we couldn’t explain brings us peace. We deserve it.

        As with your comment, I experienced so many but at that time I was both naive and transfixed. My capacity to have believed the unbelievable astounds me. The relationship I thought was my lifeline was nothing short of dangerous. He was living to satisfy his most insatiable appetites for EVERYONE and without a moral compass from a very early age. So many relationships and no real connections – it is hard to imagine it possible in someone so young but it was and it is.

        1. Chihuahuamum says:

          Hi sarah…yes it is possible and i think as empathic people we cant believe it bc its so different from us the polar opposite but it exists! You see it in psychopathic killers so why not in varying degrees? There really are predators out there and the scary thing is many have no idea they are preying on people and hurting them. Greaters do of course and get fulfillment from their calculated actions. His list of girls is like a serial killers list as they watch for their next victim. Mind staggering!

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