The Support Forum Fraud
There are many online support forums that exist with regard to the issue of narcissism and narcissistic abuse.
I have previously moved amongst the shadows of these blogs, Facebook sites, Twitter pages and so forth, observing and absorbing the behaviours that I have witnessed. There are those which provide information. Others are the cathartic disclosures of victims who are seeking to warn as well as recount their own horrors alongside their journey or recovery. There are others which are there to assist people in healing from the trauma they have suffered. The quality and reliability of them varies. Amidst the proliferation of support forums lurk our kind.
There is no doubt that our kind inhabit these places. Indeed, from time to time Lesser and Mid-Range Narcissists have appeared and frequented my blog. Easy for me to spot, but less so for others. Naturally, narcissists appear at other sites and forums, commenting and interacting. Those narcissists will gain some fuel from the interaction with the people on that forum, but more specifically they will look to befriend a fellow commenter or two and take their interaction off blog and onto private messaging, the telephone, Skype and ultimately meeting in person. The Tertiary Source becomes a secondary source and the provision of fuel increases in potency, quantity and frequency. A separate article will cover that type of interaction.
The narcissist also operates on these support forums in a different capacity ; that of moderator, administrator or host.
How does this manifest?
First of all, if a Greater operates such a forum then he or she will be open about the fact, confirm what they are and explain much about the way we think and operate. These sites are extremely rare. Greaters are very rare and those which operate sites similar to mine are even rarer. However, those that do exist make it clear what the site is and who is operating it. This rarity and the common misunderstanding that all narcissists do not know what they are, leads some people to regard such sites in a mistaken manner.
Secondly, a Lesser would not operate such a forum. He or she has no idea what he or she is and being utterly devoid of empathy (including cognitive empathy), it would never occur to the Lesser to devise such a site. They have no interest in appearing as a saintly figure and they have no desire to listen to the woes of others. The Lesser will frequent the forums but they will not run them, indeed they prefer to utilise someone else’s work to enable them to boast about their own (supposed) encounters with a narcissist and then take centre stage as they brag about their life style, attack other commenters and do so with an utter lack of awareness as to their behaviour and of course, what they are.
Thirdly, it is the Mid-Ranger who poses the problem with regard to the creation and running of these forums. Why the Mid-Ranger? Again, he or she does not know what she is but these sites appeal to them because:-
- They are able to engage in their façade management. The Mid Range Narcissist genuinely believes that he or she is a good person, a decent person , an empathic person. It is other people who are the horrible, abusive narcissists. Not them.
- The site gives them an excellent vehicle to sound off about their own perceived mis-treatment. The Mid Ranger loves a good Pity Party, Compassion Conference or Sympathy Symposium and those that interact with these people buy into this.
- It enables them to continue a campaign against those the Mid Range Narcissist perceives as the abuser. Thus the ex-girlfriend, the parents, the boss or the once upon a time best friend, all find themselves routinely smeared and the validation that the site’s readers provides to the Mid Range Narcissist only goes to consolidate in their minds that they are a good person and that they are truly the victim.
The Mid Ranger is the narcissist who you will find operating these forums (or fora if you prefer) . Of course not all of the online support forums are operated by our kind, far from it, but there is a noticeable presence by our kind. Indeed, I have had many of my readers express their concerns and suspicions about certain sites and their provenance, based on their experiences there and what they have witnessed.
This is difficult for people to recognise. They will have some familiarity naturally with the idea of narcissism, since why else are they at a narcissist abuse support forum?! However, it is highly likely that their skills have not yet become attuned to recognising our kind and certainly not this particular wolf in sheep’s clothing.
What then are the indicators which show that a narcissist is operating the site (or is involved as a moderator or administrator)? Based on what I have witnessed at certain sites, you should be aware of the following
- Invalidation. The subject of narcissism is both emotive and complex and therefore people have various experiences, opinions and theories. Some may simply be incorrect. Some may be based on a misunderstanding. Some however remain valid because that is the experience of the individual. The Support Forum Fraud (“SFF”) will reject out of hand the experience of the reader or commenter if it disagrees with, is at odds with or contradicts something stated by the SFF. Rather than recognising a difference of opinion, or politely explaining why the reader’s view is mistaken, the SFF will be dismissive.
- Aggressive. If the reader holds their ground with the SFF then they will be treated in an aggressive fashion. The reader is not insulting or provocative and merely states their view. They are treated to an aggressive response from the SFF. This is the manifestation of the MRN’s ignited fury. They will be told they know nothing, that they are being ridiculous, that the SFF knows far better and reminded that the SFF operates the forum.
- Labelling. The SFF will label the reader as an abuser or as a narcissist. I have seen this happen on many occasions and is a rapid dose of projection designed to put down, invalidate and insult the reader.
- The Labelling also has a further effect. It acts as a call to arms to other readers to launch into an attack against the hapless reader. The SFF expects their readership to gang up on this ‘narcissist’ and tell them what they are and drum them from the forum. Who are those who respond to this clarion call of the SFF? They belong to two groups ; other narcissists and mis-guided victims. The former group of course do not know what they are. The Lessers will see it as an excellent opportunity for some verbal abuse provocation. The Mid Rangers will see it as a chance to curry favour with the host and demonstrate their own credentials as a ‘good’ person. The Mis-Guided Victims (often newbies) are still very hurt by their experience and their inexperience and current world view causes them to lash out at someone who they have mistakenly seen as a narcissist. It is an easy mistake for them to make, after all, they are still learning and the supposed guru of the host has declared this person to be a narcissist, so it must be true. There will be those, those who are more experienced and empathic who will defend the reader, recognising they are not a narcissist and that the person is entitled to express their opinion. They will be set on also and therefore this often causes others to avoid the fray to begin with.
- The host will engage in repeated recollections of their own horrendous treatment at the hands of the narcissist. It will be like a daily sermon as they rail against this person with a zealous enthusiasm which lasts for far too long for that of a genuine victim.
- The host having identified a supposed narcissist on the site will not let the matter go. If the reader remains (or is allowed to remain) on the site, they will be repeatedly branded and subjected to passive aggressive remarks. Even once gone or banished, they will be made mention of by the SFF.
- The SFF will also make repeated reference to their “online attackers” or their “trolls” in order to gain sympathy from readers. These supposed attackers remain vague and amorphous in identity because they often do not exist, but they are a perception of the SFF.
- The SFF will dole out the Pity Plays in order to gain the sympathy and support of their readers. Whilst they will repeatedly make mention of how badly they have been treated by the ‘narcissist’ they were ensnared by, they will also make such comments as “I don’t know why I bother doing this at times” and “I am sick of not being appreciated” and “some of you have no idea how much effort this takes”.
- Waterworks. If the SFF uses videos on the site or has a YouTube presence then the crocodile, self-pitying tears will flow. Those whose tears are genuine either will not post material containing them (they do not want people to see or regard it as unprofessional) or if they do it is clear it is genuine. The SFF’s waterworks will be forced as they summon up the tears. They will switch them on and off like the flicking of the switch. Once you know what to look for, you will see them.
- There is a lack of originality in the material. The SFF can only pose as the supposed empathic supporter of the abused not through actual experience or emotional empathy but through mimicry. Accordingly, the material that is placed on the site will be drawn from elsewhere. Often, the lazier SFF (coupled with their sense of entitlement and lack of accountability) will steal the work of others and either not credit it to the original author or pass it off as their own.
- There will be passive aggressive comments made towards the commenters and readers. Again, this is not always obvious to newcomers, but those with experience will soon spot this indicator and allied with points above the picture becomes clear.
- Sudden blocking. A reader will find themselves blocked from the site without any explanation or understanding as to what they have done. This passive aggressive response will arise because the SFF has perceived some behaviour of the reader which is unacceptable and thus wounded, has lashed out with this cold fury by providing a Silent Treatment.
Over time, the aggregate of these behaviours will demonstrate the true nature of the person operating the site and you will then realise just who is really behind the supposed caring, empathic persona.
You may have found yourself on the receiving end of such behaviour previously. Of course, you will not experience this behaviour in the future. Why? Well, you have no reason to go anywhere else than here now, have you!?
58 thoughts on “The Support Forum Fraud”
I’ve just seen this article for the first time. HG, what you describe here is EXACTLY how my ex-therapist runs his social media. Well, he is nowhere as active as before (years ago), I believe because he quite effectively killed his reputation with his online behavior and perhaps realized in the end it’s better not to continue that as much. But exactly my experience about him and seeing him handle his commenters. It was largely from his online behavior how I realized back then that he was a hypocrite and a narcissist. I don’t care much anymore but good to see it validated again because during that time, initially, I constantly doubted myself and that my perceptions were crazy… of course I wasn’t the delusional one.
You are welcome, Dorion. There is much more of this going on than people realise. I am clear about what I am and people make a completely informed decision whether to interact with me or not, those described in TSSF are not.
I met a woman on a support forum (FB) and I have substantial concerns (certain in fact) of her true disposition. HUGE victim. Dominates the support forum network. Her FB is embarrassing frankly—constant domestic violence memes etc. We connected initially because socially & education etc—we have/had a lot in common—quickly the weird vibes began and I’ve disengaged. She told me probably 3 times (in some way) she wanted to get rid of her young daughters and it nauseated me. It didn’t smell or seem right. Give them to the terrible narcissist! Weird. She is a whack job. You just posted on the micro manager sort—this is another great one to illustrate. I recognize “weird” and “things not adding up” but to attribute likely narcissism takes it to another level in terms of self protecting. When you know you go—there’s zero need to even talk to her. I have no obligation such as in a work place setting. She also cheats on her great boyfriend. She’s gross and hides under a veil of beauty and charm.
I love this article!!!! You are indeed a clever man…
I agree. And hugely helpful.
HG—is there a particular group of “empaths” that you tend to teeter toward maybe being narcissists potentially until further determination? If so, what about their dynamic defines this as the case?
Interesting question Loreili, what prompted you to ask that question?
I believe a couple of the Ns I know suspect me of being one and can’t quite make their mind up about me. That is post knowledge though so I do conduct myself rather differently.
I have found lots of information out there and I have to say that, yes, once I found this place, it seemed to be the one that fit best.
It’s interactive. I like that too.
I’m at a stage where I don’t want to indulge in misery and while getting it out feels beneficial, I’m questioning, just where to go from here?
I absolutely replaced my morning addiction to my narc, to a new morning addiction of reading all about narcs. Healthy? I’m sure I don’t know. Just in case it’s not, it’s probably not, I have stopped reading anything narc related, first thing in the mornings.
I do feel that this is the go-to platform for all things factual with explanations to back it up.
Other platforms seem less about fact sharing and precise information and more about bastards (of either sex) in general. Not every bastard is a narcissist.
I’ve noticed that a lot of other platforms point the finger very quickly and easily, throwing around the word Narcsissist as if it’s an explanation to everything that’s wrong in anyone’s personal life.
ie; Oh really? He didn’t kiss your ass for being a demanding feminazi? Oh! He’s a narc, etc etc. It flies so easily off the tongue.
That doesn’t seem to happen here. I appreciate that. This seems to be a more relevant place to learn from.
Indeed. It is the most effective place to learn from.
There is one woman whose videos i enjoy listening to on youtube. She was born in a culture similar to mine. Her videos are about life and people in general(not narcissism) She basically shares her wisdom that she acquired through life experiences and by reading a lot.
She would become aggressive whenever someone shares his/her opinion on comment section during her live videos. She insults, laughs at them and even threatens to block them if they don’t stop asking stupid questions or writing something unrelated to the main topic. I didn’t know if i could label her as narc because of who she is.
Regarding narcissistic abuse forum, your blog is only place where i comment.
I am pleased you feel able to comment here, further evidence of the constructive forum that this place is.
In your example AR, that reveals a number of narcissistic indicators.
It is very constructive forum HG and you are always polite with your readers.
Indeed. I have no issue with people asking questions or raising challenges so long as it is done based on evidence. The only person who will be given a Tudor Takedown will be the occasional narcissist that wanders in.
I’d love to have popcorn ready for such an event….
Actually, I think I did see such an exchange. Someone posted under a sock puppet name and thought she wouldn’t be caught. It was epic.
I do know the sites you’re referring to, or for sure the one.
Other clues of Narcs posing as the savior of empathic victims, is wanting to chat privately or call, email privately and msg privately.
Also , as HG said, abruptly blocking you.
Narc infiltrators out there!!!
Great article HG
Are u aware of the scammers offering to help victims by hacking the Narcs phone? This is a scam. You will pay money to a foreign person who will be so empathetic and helpful. Then there will be a problem, and they will need more money. This will go on, you’ll never get information and they will suddenly be gone.
Beware. Yours is the only.phone they may hack.
I almost wrote u about this one, HG, but then decided you were on top of it.
I can tell you more info of these scams if u ever need it. I helped 2 other Narc sites who had scammers, get rid of them.
I am aware of it. I receive comments offering this service. They are always deleted.
Oh Boy, this was pretty interesting. You are so correct. I have encountered Narcs on recovery-type groups, and I can even tell its pretty likely we ran into the same one.
1. Narcs running Narc recovery groups – portraying themselves as empaths as the savior of empaths that have been hurt by Narcs. I can tell u one of the telltale signs will be if they want to call and talk one on one, or email/msg privately.
Also, as HG said, the sudden abrupt blocking.
2. The guys that have a hacking service to put your mind at rest once and for all about the lying and cheating Narc. They will set up deals to hack your Narcs phone, and cite success stories of people who have gotten away when they learned the truth from the cyberhacker.
These are scams , they will steal your money and may hack you, not the Narc.
I know for sure. You will wire money to another country. they will have difficulty with your Narcs phone, or some similar story, this will cost u more money, etc.. then they are gone. They will change names and set up again.
I almost wrote u about this, HG. I can tell you a lot about this.
Thanks for bringing up the illegitimate sites, HG
1. Correct. More prevalent than people realise.
2. Yes, quite a few of these around. Also add in the Witch Doctor types, spiritual healers also all claiming to remove toxicity and achieve “love”.
You are welcome.
Ah a vigilance is a must I guess..
I’ve never been on any other narcissist support groups. Your sponsored Facebook ads started showing up in my newsfeed a few weeks ago, which is what brought me here.
(Which I suppose is a bit of useful feedback for you on the effectiveness of your marketing, HG! It’s nice to know Facebook ads actually do their job sometimes. I think my own FB business ads fail to reach their target audience half the time, but anyway I’m digressing…)
I’ve noticed a lot of narcissism on other groups I frequent. Much as you’ve described above can be applied to the dynamic of many groups really, except without anybody labelling anybody else specifically as a narcissist. You can see the way people behave and how they accuse others of being ‘out to get them’.
My line of work involves a lot of name droppers, wannabe big shots, and people with delusions of grandeur, and it’s an environment which really tends to lend itself to narcissism. So the online groups surrounding the field I’m in are full of pity players, and toddler-like temper tantrums, and scandalous accusations flung around all over the place. It’s cliquey and full of suck-ups, and every bigwig has their coterie and fan club.
It’s a bit like a lion’s den.
Anyway, I’d never look elsewhere for narcisst know-how than here. When you’ve hit on the perfect spaghetti bolognese, why would you change the recipe?
I was meaning to ask HG, do you ever do signed (with your pen name obviously) copies of your paperback books? Or are they just done through CreateSpace with no ability to sign them?
If you self-publish via Ingram Spark they have a feature on there enabling you to electronically sign your books should anybody request a signed copy.
I was thinking I’d have liked to have purchased paperbacks rather than ebooks, mostly because I still can’t find the flipping kindle (and I’m not fond of buying them for my desktop machinery), and I rather like signed copies.
I have signed copies for readers, yes.
How would one go about ordering a signed copy?
Email me, TPOT.
Do you sign underwear for readers? Haha
I found you! (Am I in time to stop you from mailing your underwear overseas? lol) I wanted you to know I just got a bottle of “Ancient Greek Remedy” oil (sweet almond oil/cold-pressed virgin almond oil/grape seed oil/lavender oil/Vitamin E). I can’t wait to try it this weekend🤸♀️ Thanks for the idea.
I did read the support fraud article, HG.✅ Interesting…makes sense that a Greater is the only way to go. Those Mid-Rangers sure muck stuff up.
I’m going to swim over in the underwear.
I hope they have plenty of your hair oil over there, Lorelei! (OMG, you wouldn’t believe the sentence I first typed, which would have been so dirty misconstrued, by even the most innocent of empaths).
Going into work on barely 3 hours sleep…someone left their dog out all night, barking continuously. Why-o-why?? 😭
I have oil and my blue shampoo. It stains my fingers to shampoo. It’s essential. I just woke up from a slumber. I function poorly on 3 hours—I’m ok sometimes but repeated I become discombobulated. Good luck! Whatever time zone you are in!
And if you signed underwear for Lorelei, would it be boxers or briefs? JK!
How do you sign books for readers? Do they send you payment for the book and their address to mail it to through an email?
You email me, tell me what you want, we agree a fee and then I organise it for you.
Omg I would only have one man sign underwear for me. Dr. Drew.
Mr.HG, you say that if a greater hapen to visit or hold these kind of site, they will be honnest about who they are and their behaviour.
does that make mean, if a greater gains nothing from manipulating a situation they prefere to acte in an ethical manner?
or is it that they derive some sort of pride in explaining how their operating system works.
i mean, in your case i get it that it was a part of your therapy and the fact that you like to write, i didn’t know it was extensive to all the greaters.
may be the greater does not manipulate for free because they have the choice since they know it when they do, while lessers and mid rangers don’t know, and that makes them “salves” to their narcissism who is 100% of the time runing.
or i got it totally wrong.
I operate this place Liza, I do not manipulate anybody here. Some people say “but HG, you are a narcissist, you are always manipulating.” That shows a fundamental misunderstanding about narcissism. The vast majority of narcissists are Lesser and Mid-Range, they manipulate nearly all of the time, why, because they are always fighting to assert control because they are not as accomplished as maintaining as a Greater or Ultra. Why is that? they do not have the breadth and depth of skill set or the same level of resources. As an Ultra, I do not manipulate all of the time and do not here because manipulation if only required when control has to be addressed, if I have control already, there is no need to manipulate. I always have control in this place, therefore there is no need to manipulate. Further, I am not an idiot, I have the high level of intelligence, awareness and ability to avoid doing things to damage my creation and legacy. I aim to win, so you all do as well. The forums, Twitter pages, FB pages etc which are operated by narcissists (usually Mid Range) do not know what they are, think they are “good empathic people” but you can see in their behaviour (although they cannot see this and moreover it is pointless showing it to them because their narcissism cannot and will not let them see this) what they are, many of the behaviours being described in the article. I have witnessed it on certain sites and I have seen it exhibited by other individuals in relation to observations about me. By contrast, look at the sites run by empaths – they are constructive and tolerant and again many of them advocate my material, why is that? Because whilst they do not condone what I do in certain areas of my life, they recognise the validity, applicability and opportunity afforded by what I writer about. They will either not bother with me at all (they find it too much) or they advocate my work. What they do not do, is attack me, why? Because it is only the narcissists who do that, the empaths do not, they may express disapproval but they do not keep trying and trying and trying to gain fuel from me through provocation. I keep a folder with hundreds of emails from these individuals who cycle through trying to seduce me, then throwing out pity plays, then threatening me. It is predictable and contemptible. My focus is on providing information to the true victims so they can use it in a constructive and liberating fashion. I am not wasting my time on others who denigrate my work or my readers.
i’m sorry, it seems that i didn’t express myself correctly i didn’t accuse you of manipulating, i know that you don’t manipulate in this blog, but i thought that you were an exeption not the norm among greaters.
thank you for taking the time to provide me with a detailed answer i really ipreciate it.
It is okay Liza, I know you were not accusing me of doing so, I was explaining the position to aid understanding generally.
Excellent response!! I advocate for you all the time because I BELIEVE in you and your work. You have the ability to help ppl who are suffering and I will continue to spread the word! I feel safer knowing you’re back there somewhere for us….
Thank you DID.
Thank you for sharing this Interesting info HG! could you name some of the actual SFF’s that you know are out there?
I know who a number of them are.
One of them got paranoid that you called them out last summer, lol. He brought up that he thought it was you. 😁
Cogra002? See what I mean? Will you look at my post below about these SFF people? I just wrote a post below that HG Tudor can not deal/contact with these people as is his custom anyway, to NOT do so, and I wrote my post before yours was even posted. See! I am not making anything up. That guy you speak of is mentioning HG Tudor as possibly outing him, because HG is already on that guy`s mind. See what I mean??? If HG ever contacted such a person like that, who has a forum, that person would make a career saying he was contacted by the Great HG Tudor himself. He would make an actual career of it! I am not exaggerating in the least. I know what I am talking about. I live in NYC and many celebrities are here and have to be very careful here and barely say anything to people that are not somehow vetted by them, or for them, one way or another, beforehand. It is crazy. And that is why celebrities have to be so careful. Desperation is out there, and so they have to protect themselves. And that is why I mentioned what I did in that mini novella to Esther, although she meant well. And she meant no harm suggesting that he should start actively naming the SFF people. No way!
Correct. There are more SFF Narcissists than people realise. How do you know to avoid them? Simple – gain all your knowledge with me. Not only is it the best, the most effective, but you know exactly who you are dealing with and as all sensible readers (being the vast majority here) understand, you are treated with courteous and fairly. There is no reason to go elsewhere.
Esther, Naming these people will just give them ammunition to say that they have gained the attention of the Great HG Tudor. And then they will lie and say that HE is envious of their work. Sadly, I kid you not. HG Tudor would never hear the end of it, from such people. Some of them already chase him. Because they need to. It is okay if they are benign. And many of them do not even know they are frauds. He does not chase them or contact them in any manner. Because, he is state of the art. And he is very busy with all of this. And if perchance they do go too far within his professional sphere, although he is very tolerant, HG has a legal team to `clarify matters ` with them on a case by case basis, anyway. That is why we learn so much on here. The focus is overall on the work. I am glad, because many of us need as much of HG`s undivided attention as we can obtain. And more and more people are coming on here, and many in a state of emergency. That is important for many of us to know. And our problems are cyclical. I am having a respite this week, but when we are having an emergency, I have witnessed that HG Tudor is accessible. Plus, he is a brilliant behaviour genius, as you probably know. He is above the madness. And he often cleans up the madness that the Sffs, etc, often unknowingly create for their readers and clients: That is part of HG`s fame as well: He straightens out faulty facts regarding the Narcissistic dynamic as well as other behavioral dynamics for both the layman, his own readers and clients, and professional mental workers. This is my take, because many of us do not want such madness to reach out and touch him in any way, and waste his valuable time, and hurt our time. And I became nervous when you wanted him to actively to name people. Because, I am selfish for us on this site. And I became alarmed, for my own sake, when you asked him to start listing names, on top of everything else he has to do for his important work. We come first. Am I wrong? I don’t thinks so. Thank you.
Very good point PSE! It makes sense. Thank you!
Esther. Basically, If HG starts naming names, ungainly feuds start. The last thing any of us need is HG Tudor embroiled in petty, screechy, wild, endless feuds, yes??? I shudder thinking of it and it triggers me to think of it, because I have seen such type of feuds happen when envious and jealous people of a lower level have grounds, even if overly exaggerated, to latch on to a greater person, and publicly feud with them and other such things. And the lesser persons usually win at that sort of thing. And they become like a pitbull, or a snapping turtle, 2 creatures both known to sink in their teeth and to try to NEVER let go of their tasty target. For the rest of their lives. I am not joking. So, every time anyone asks HG Tudor to name names, I admit that I do become highly triggered. Because I have witnessed in life the type of utter madness that can ensue. And some of these lesser persons and even some SFF persons are INSTINCTIVELY laying in wait, hoping they could someday become embroiled in a fued with The Narcississt, The ULTRA, HG Tudor, and then they would try to make a career of it, and also if the SFF person is either a woman or man, they would try do ride his coattail from that point on, but in a malign manner. And they would instinctively lie about made up interactions with him over time, beyond whatever started the feud, and they would even believe their own lies. If it were a female, she would have the greatest pity play ever for her channel/Forum, and she would never stop attracting viewers talking about him incessantly, attracting especially protective male viewers that way. And men would say that HG is envious of them and their point of view on the dynamic and that he is after their clients by attacking them. Hahaha: It is funny, but in a bad way. I am not exaggerating in the least. It would be so horrid. My heart would break: To see a Lily (my favorite flower) dragged down to the weeds. Esther, even if these people do start publicly naming names about each other, themselves, and sometimes they do, and then get into petty, never-ending, vicious feuds with each other, that end up taking a life of their own, HG Tudor, ESPECIALLY, can not do it. I am right about this.
Yes, you are right.
I tried one other site and without naming names I found her solutions odd. It helped in relaxation exercises but that was it. Plus I did not like her treatment of others who might question her techniques. Your site has helped a lot. I don’t think you have any competitors. Once your site is found, no need. Better than therapy.
Correct. Anybody who comes where will learn and become free.
Ha! And have a few less dollars in their pockets!! They will have been up-levelled. Is that a real word? 🤨
Name names Kimberley! We’re all ears here!
I dont recognise your name. So, if you are new then welcome!