The Haunted Chamber
Your heart has its haunted chamber,
Where the silent treatment falls,
On the floor are stalking footsteps,
Malicious whispers along the walls.
Though your perfect love is manifold,
This chamber will still persist,
Its lingering hurt and sadness,
Is decreed to always exist.
No matter how you shine and smile,
‘Tis a place of frigid cold,
That now no love, no joy, no care
Can relinquish its endless hold.
Your heart these times is haunted,
By phantoms of our past,
So insidious is the infection
It seems it will always last.
A form sits by your window,
Always in your corner eye,
Waiting and watching all night long
Yet never answering why.
I sit there in the moonlight,
Hatred etched across my face,
And point a blaming finger,
To avoid my own disgrace.
I haunt your heart and memory,
My poison flows yet still,
To remind you of your treachery,
And to scold you for causing me ill.
Each lonely darkened midnight,
You will hear my accusing wail,
The bitter and twisted arguments,
Still remain beyond the pale.
This phantom’s baleful glare,
Seems to absorb and drain your will,
The remembering of torment,
Places in your heart sick chill.
My haunting clouds your remembrance,
All else becomes thin air,
The shadows form and twist now,
So you always see me there.
The knock upon your window pane,
Wrenches your thought from me,
A relentless drumming announcement,
From the gloomy darkened tree.
There stands our oak, rain-slicked, boughs bent,
A place that was sanctuary,
We climbed it often together,
To imagine being free.
Yet now near lifeless monument,
It serves only to torment,
The greying bark and sorest wounds,
Form the night’s empty lament.
I know you look there still each night,
I know you see me there,
The haunting of your aching heart
Ne’er relieved by earnest prayer.
Your chained and weighted pensive guilt,
Is naught to my own hell,
But yours is bound in silence,
Since you can never tell.
Beneath the oaken branches,
Is the grave of that little child,
Who fell from grace so violently,
And never wept nor smiled.
So your heart remains an empty chamber,
Where my hatred will reside,
And evermore I will punish you,
For what you have always denied.
What once shone bright and golden,
Is dulled and tarnished deep,
And the memory of your failings,
Will steal away your sleep.
I blamed her then so I blame you now,
It all must wither and turn bad,
Since I have no hope but to see you
As the parent I never had.
100 thoughts on “The Haunted Chamber”
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Beautiful but sad.
Haunting and sorrowful. This fills me with despair.
NS. I’m exhausted. I’ve just written the first draft of my manifesto. Yes, I’ve decided I’m a political movement.
As a Priestess and Witch, Halloween or Samhain has been like forever a big thing in the household. So this year a lot of careful planning and preparation had gone in on both my partner behalf.
I broke from tradition this year by dressing up as a Ringmaster. I’d been meaning to trot this one out for a number of years but you know, life gets in the way. Originally, I was going to take saucy pics and put them on Fetlife. I note that Google drive has reminded me of three years ago today when I took pictures if myself in a black, Agent Provocateur corset. I sent some to the Lee I was with who promptly threw one of the biggest and most incoherent fits I’d ever seen from a lesser.
He broke up with me. I had no idea what I’d done. But I did. He thought I was taking the pictures to catch a man. I was not. They were taken to please myself.
So im out and about. Having a very good time. Chatting to a friend when suddenly two girls, half our ages join in.
They are fun. But then the tone darkens Im dragged away. I know what’s coming. One of the girls discloses to me a horrific and violent sexual assault. Shed never spoken of it before.
Many things were running through my mind. Above all the terror, the worry, the desperation. How am I coming across? Am I doing the cognitive empathy right?
Are my own perceptions colouring this right? But…I did get enough time to shove her my internet way. And thus to HG.
My God this is so hard at times.
Of course we can’t “fix” them. If we could fix a narcissist, that would mean the narcissist is broken, and we are not. Or at least, that we are LESS broken.
How DARE we?!!
If you must be in control, then do you only control others, are you not in control over yourself?
You’re the little boy who pushed the other boy into the nettles repeatedly because you wanted to be in charge. You’re the little boy who defied his grandmother and had to sneak and steal the cookies because no one can tell you what you can’t have. You watched your father comfort your sister, but you didn’t run to him when you burned your hand because why? you saw him as weak and you preferred your mothers cold response?
Your mother is one of your kind, likely raised by the same kind, and learned to parent from them, so which one of you shall I feel sorry for? I feel sorry for your father whose son defied him, and for your sister and brother who looked up to you, because they all loved you.
Hi Kel,
I feel sorry for his father too. However, when HG was a child he needed protection which he may not have received from his father.
His father may have turned a blind eye to the abuse he was suffering from his mother and never defended him.
It would be understandable if little HG did feel resentful towards his father because of this. Yes, HG’s father was in a difficult position being a victim himself but there may be times he did not act responsibly as a father. I feel little HG is allowed to be angry that the other adults around him who saw what was going on did not defend him despite the fact they weren’t the perpetrators.
From his father perspective, knowing that divorce may have meant the children remained with their mother, he may have felt he was doing the right thing by remaining in the household and being a passive influence to the children. We know women are favoured for custody of the children (sometimes for the right reasons but not always.)
As a child it is extremely difficult to comprehend the grey areas and it’s understandable if little HG felt his father could have done more for him.
Hi Witch,
I agree and by all means too that HG should express himself for his own therapy and for us to learn from. I’m just concerned that we learn what he’s been teaching us and not fall for things we should be wise to. He enjoys being a narcissist and he doesn’t feel sorry for the terrible things he does to others that he tells us about. Of course I’m grateful to him and he’s a good guy.
Hi Kel,
I don’t like big HG. Like you said, his knowledge is valuable but that’s about it.
However, when it comes to little HG I feel differently. Little HG was a victim of the big Narcs. Little HG was not in control of his environment. The Narcs were in control. Little HG was taught that even if he cries and screams no one is coming to save him. Little HG was taught that he was not in control of his own body and that he could be invaded at any moment.
Little HG wasn’t only abused by his mother but also his uncle who raped him.
Little HG stole the cookie because he was trying to feel in control while being controlled by his mother and his uncle.
I would be interested to know how the good doctors have approached little HG, but I’m sure more will be revealed in time.
Hi Witch,
I see your point about HG as a child. I’m surprised to hear about his uncle raping him, I only ever read that his aunt approached him sexually and he rejected her. That definitely would be a traumatic experience.
HG, I don’t want to be indelicate, but is it true that your uncle did that?
No
Ahh I made an assumption.
Someone asked HG if he was sexually abused and he said yes and someone else asked him if his mother knew what was going on, he said yes.
When HG said something about his uncle being a narc, I thought it was the uncle
Hi Kel, there is no cure for the narcissism combined with sociopathy – their brains are different, different MRI scans compared to the MRI scans of normal individuals. The genetic predisposition combined with other factors during the childhood or early adolescence determinate the narcissistic disorder.
The little HG has both thus the grown man HG is a narcissist.
He doesn’t enjoy his condition. Would you enjoy having a chronic decease? No, you won’t.
HG has no choice but to behave the way he does.
But he has a brilliant mind thus his tremendous work about narcissism- the blog, the books, the media presence, etc.
And we can see his good side , the deeply buried empathic traits.
I sometimes things with sadness about him ( after posting an article about his childhood) because just imagine, this brilliant mind , this superb education he had received . If he was raised in a caring and loving environment, then nowadays HG could be a famous scientist / writer/ philanthropist/ politic admired by many .
Although HG still does a lot of altruistic stuff.
Hence our admiration to the Elite , to the man with a dark soul but with a big heart.
Just to be clear, nothing I do is altruistic, it is always in my best interests. Fortunately for you good readers, it assists you as well.
The boy he pushed into nettles was an annoying child. I’m an empath and I did things like that to other children who annoyed me.
HG wanted to try all the flavours, that’s normal. I’m happy he got to try them. He did the right thing. I wish HG was my child so I could’ve made him whatever cookies he wanted 🍪
He ran to his mother when he burnt his hand because he loved his mother and wanted his mother to comfort him. All children want comfort from their mothers.
Hi Whitney
If you had been HG’s empath mother, I’m sure you would feel very frustrated with a child who wouldn’t mind you when you told him not to do something for his own good and he would sneak and do it anyway. You could enjoy spoiling him all you want, but he wouldn’t be loyal to you or care about anyone other than himself.
The nettles boy event was evil. That poor kid might’ve been annoying, but didn’t deserve to be pushed into thorns over and over again. He only wanted a turn and practice doing it to get it right. Boy HG didn’t want to lose the game, and that’s the only reason he cut up that child.
He did have love in his family if he had chosen it, his father, sister and brothers are empaths- same as you and me. I adored my narc brother, he was good to me, but I saw his strange behavior later on and was confused and surprised by it. He had my heart and devotion, until he grew older and I saw the other him. I know why I feel sorry for HG’s father and siblings, I can relate. I have one child that’s narcissistic and one that’s normal. Narcissistic children are drawn to the narcissist influence in their lives.
Hi kel
Thanks for your reply. Have you had an Empath Detector, which type of Empath are you? 🙂
His grandmother made a selection of delicious cookies and told HG he could only try one!!!! That’s taunting to anyone and especially a child.
It’s not the worst thing that happened to him, but he needed to take matters into his own hands. I can see why he’s controlling now.
I don’t think the nettles was ‘evil’. Kids fight all the time. That boy wanted to be the leader and was incompetent and HG put him in his place. That’s natural. I was mean to kids for no reason at times.
Mothers are special to children. They teach you what love is, when you’re a baby. I love my mum so much it makes me cry, and my love for her is placed onto others I love. Love starts with your mother.
I have not had my empath traits categorized Whitney. I’m an empath who’s had a lifetime of experience with narcissists, and isn’t blind to seeing them for what they are anymore. My mother is a narcissist and I always loved her and couldn’t bare the thought of her ever passing on, despite that she almost caused my death as a child, sent me away out of state to start school early because she wanted a career, all sorts of things right down to killing my chihuahua this year who was living with her. She went into the hospital last month and they found a severe cat bite on her leg from the last remaining pet in the household who I’m sure was defending itself. She was discharged to a nursing home where she caused such a physical fuss with one nurse, who no one would believe about it later, as everyone else only saw her as sweet and pleasant.
I have loads of love and empathy and no problems with spoiling children. In fact I do with my grandchildren because we just want to have fun, and it’s ok with my daughter, and they are also expected to mind. Gigi doesn’t put up with whining and I think we have a very cool and personal relationship.
HG doesn’t have the capacity to love as he’s explained to us. He has a grand design he’s planning that sounds like his mother’s not going to enjoy.
His siblings didn’t have a problem choosing one cookie, they were happy to have it, whereas HG wouldn’t help clean and would only sulk. I think that was the point of the story, not that his grandmother was being mean to him. I myself would never be that strict and we would definitely had eaten them up, but that wasn’t the point of the story.
Anyway, too bad you weren’t HG’s mum spoiling him rotten. But there was some good that came from his past, and it’s that he’s here helping all of us.
Hi Kel
Thank you I really enjoyed reading your comment. You have such interesting life experiences. I’m sorry about your mother, it sounds horrific. I know you love her. I would imagine you’d have a lot of conflicting feelings 😢
Oh, I forgot about the Grand Design. I’m glad there will be justice.
I know I missed the point of the story. But I see it in a different way. HG was a conniving child, because his environment was needlessly controlling, so he took matters into his own hands.
HG IS amazing because of his past 😊
Cunning child, not conniving
HG were you not fearful of the punishment for all of this?
… knowing I might have got licked with a wooden spoon was enough for me to behave lol
Fearful of the punishment for what? (I do not see the preceding comments in the moderation pane, so you will need to be specific).
Assaulting other children and stealing cookies etc?
Acting out when you were a child basically?
Fearful of punishment from Matrinarc for this behaviour?
This Be The Verse
BY PHILIP LARKIN
They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.
But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another’s throats.
Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don’t have any kids yourself.
Great poem V. Pretty much sums it up for a lot of us.
Sylvia Plath’s “Daddy” is a good one, too. Bet the girl with Daddy issues in GH’s post could relate to that one.
Sylvia Plath’s husband, Ted Hughes, was a narcissist. The woman he cheated on Sylvia with killed herself and her child. He went on to marry a nurse, while being involved with other two women (at least).
I read that at one point he really didn’t know which IPSS to crown and referred to the women as A, B, C.
He also said something about ‘pouring his darkness’ into the women he was with and blaming their destruction on the fact that these women didn’t possess the resources he possesed to deal with this darkness..
She knew it:
******
I was ten when they buried you.
At twenty I tried to die
And get back, back, back to you.
I thought even the bones would do.
But they pulled me out of the sack,
And they stuck me together with glue.
And then I knew what to do.
I made a model of you,
A man in black with a Meinkampf look
And a love of the rack and the screw.
And I said I do, I do.
******
She knew she was seeking out the kind of men who would enable her to reenact the unresolved conflict with her father, over and over again.
Violetta – interesting and creepy at the same time. She recognises she has married a sadist.
By the way, while reading this poem I got the same anxiety-type feeling that I got when reading Kafka: a mixture of gloom, claustrophobia and something really, really heavy weighing on me.
Almuten Astrology: I find release in it. It’s like listening to punk or grunge: validation, after years of being told to have a Positive Attitude and watching everyone around you not only pretend everything is fine, but try to believe it. Total Doublethink. Finally, I know others are angry too.
Violetta, wait wait wait. I read about Ibn Ezra’s method of “almutes” or winning/ruling planet but I have absolutely no idea how to calculate that and for what. Tell me more. I’m passionate about Arabic and Jewish medieval knowledge.
All is well with me FYC, thank you for asking.
To know what it truly feels like to love unconditionally is a blessing FYC, thank you for reminding me of that.
All my pleasure, FM1T. Stay well and joyful.
FYC
I always enjoy reading your comments, most of the time you put into words what I can only feel. I have found that empaths do not always give unconditional love, there are many who lie to make themselves look like they are more then that which they claim to be. They also seek something in the love they claim to give so freely, there is always a price!
FYC the comment you wrote is beautiful, and I did not want to take anything away from that piece, it’s just that not all empaths are angels.
Thank you kindly, dear FM1T. A wise observation on your part and I agree, based upon observation. It is sad though, because real love that seeks no gain is endlessly abundant and it multiplies once given. It is at the heart of joy and appreciation. I never understood those who miserly appropriate love as if it were scarce and fearing no ROI. Sad for all involved.
I hope all is well with you FM1T!
Correct Foolme. Empathic people (including me) can be assholes—although I do try to be aware of this. It’s usually the result of being tired though—I’m generally* one that stays out of a fray (not always historically) and I don’t like to make people feel disposable, not important, etc. To derive a gain from this seems petty—unless it’s a narcissist and since they trample over whoever is in the way I admit I do gain some amusement from seeing them gallop around trying to figure out how to get out of the cage they find themselves in. It’s like a hissing cat stuck in a corner. It’s that basic or primal. You can’t catch them though because they scratch and bite!
Oh you can catch them though Lorelei, you can catch them by simply letting them go!
I’m drunk on liquor. Does HG offer an AA program.
GOPM – go out, pour more
I’m shit faced. It’s a good thing. Walking is rough but I can.
You would have to ask him, it would probably be the same information he gives for narcissist addiction, GOSO. I don’t think you’re drunk, perhaps feeling good but not drunk. No mistakes in your comment, spelling or grammar. Enjoy yourself Lorelei and be safe!
Omg I can’t believe this comment went through, I’m mortified. It has been happy hour for hours.
Don’t be mortified! You’re an adult and allowed to have fun! Why you would think it would not go through, is what I don’t understand? The boss usually puts everything through!
Lorelei, it’s always better to drunk post here rather than drunk dial or drunk text a narcissist. You won’t wake up beside us the next morning and regret it!
Precisely. And it was only because my phone dinged from WordPress! (That I even posted)
Nothing else dinged—only word press for an entire evening.
No sin to float home every now and then.
Unconditional love does not make one angelic and certainly not perfect. Anyone can be an a-hole on occasion. It’s the why, and what happens after, that determines if one is a dick.
Hope you got home safe Lorelei.
Home was a two minute walk which I successfully navigated—I think no one in that group felt any pain and all were elevated to a state of supreme being.
Glad you had a good time Lorelei!
Good gawd I was the good time from what I heard this morning
FM1T, I agree. Empath does not equal angel and there is very little “unconditional” love. I think what we think of as unconditional love is the manifestation of our object constancy. We are able to love and hate at the same time. Once I’ve loved, it will always be so, but I don’t have to let that love keep me from seeing toxic aspects of a person and taking measures to protect myself.
MB, that is what I feel when I love someone. I may not always agree, or go along with everything that person says or does, but I will always love them, I won’t enable them ever again. Whether it be drugs or alcohol, or the way that I am treated. I will not be shelved and taken down to be played with at their convenience as a child does when they tire of a toy. I am worth more then that and will fight my ET until logic wins out. I will not be controlled ever again!
Well done, FM1T! You are growing by leaps and bounds. I am very happy for you. Better days are in front of you and you are worth everything.
FYC, Thank you for your kind words and wisdom. This past week has been very enlightening for me, so much has happened that it is a bit overwhelming, but not in a bad way. FYC you are absolutely correct, better days are in front of me! 😘💞 I like ( emojis!! ) 😉
Happy for your good news! You be you, FM1T, as only you can. It’s a good thing.😘
Apparently it must be a very good thing FYC, as I have been told so on several occasions this past week. I guess I should have believed you when you told me this so many times dear FYC! Thank you so very much, and bless you FYC! 💞
Blessings to you as well, FM1T. I always saw who you are. I am so happy to hear more people are reflecting your goodness back to you. You have a wonderful heart.
FYC
You have to stop because now you have me in tears. Lol. Which as you already know does not take to much! Thank you wonderful FYC, you are amazing! Have a wonderful weekend.
One more thing before I go, I believe it could be you that is HGs alter echo, if he actually had such a thing?! 😘😘🙃
And I meant to add this 💞
💞
MB, This is a very interesting insight. I think you are on to something regarding object consistency. A highly defended state cannot afford object consistency owing to the absolute need for control. Yet, ironically, the narcissist is controlled by their absolute need for control. Not requiring control of another and having the ability to love others unconditionally is a more peaceful state of being. I think fear keeps people from practicing unconditional love, as if there was something to lose. There is not. Healthy, unconditional love does not equal no boundaries. To the contrary. Boundaries remain wholly intact and upheld, as do values. Unconditional love is not romantic love nor codependency (quite the opposite). Unconditional love is more a free state of appreciation, compassion and care that simply exists. I would say it exists outside the plane of self or relationship. Unconditional love may be rare, but when practiced, is very freeing.
I listened to this once again and tears always result. This is at once, both hauntingly beautiful and tragic. I so wish that all of the love from those who came before and those who love you now, could make a difference in the outcome for you HG. I know the past cannot be undone, and the perfect defense will not allow this, but I still wish it were so. That precious boy deserved it then, and deserves it now–unconditional love–from you for you, and from others. At least know you have that here from your readers. Not romantic love. Not love that seeks something in return nor requires you to be above reproach, just unconditional love that any empath would joyfully give a child or a friend or even a stranger. That kind of love is abundant and endless. You cannot find this in MatriNarc, but it does exist.
FYC,
1. Will you continue to give unconditional love after let’s say your friend breaks your trust/betrays you?
2. Do you love your friends just because they are human-beings or because you have common interests and enjoy their company? Maybe for some other reasons?
I liked your comment and i am asking this questions because i am interested in your opinion.
Hello AR,
In direct answer:
1. With regard to broken trust or betrayal: I have strong values and healthy boundaries. I know what works for me, and what I will and will not accept in my life, and I live by the same standard. Trust is integral to a healthy relationship. If I were betrayed, this would inform me about many things. I would likely feel hurt and disappointed, and in respect of myself and my values, I would end the relationship. I would wish them well, but move on. I may love someone unconditionally yet choose not to be in their life. Unconditional love for self and other does not include abuse or subjugation by another, nor does it require active participation.
2. With regards to those I consider friends: I see them for who they are and feel a connection on some level. They are accepted and appreciated as is. No one is perfect. They need not share my POV or the same interests. I value them as people. I am probably a bit different than most due to my background, but I see all sides to a person. I choose to understand the whole picture. I do not seek validation, I seek to know the other person. I know who I am and I am good with me, and if they are too, then we will probably enjoy spending some time together. I inevitably learn something from everyone. I enjoy activities with lots of people (some are friends, some acquaintances, and others are strangers). I have traveled extensively among many cultures and have never been alone, even when traveling alone. I find people very welcoming and friendly and usually have a great experience.
3. With regards to giving, it is neither. I give because it is part of my empathetic nature, and because I can, and because I choose to give back. I am selective, and give to efforts that make a direct difference for those (people, animals or causes) I care about. There is likely a narcissistic aspect to my giving because it feels good to give to what I believe in and to make a difference. To effect positive change is very satisfying. I also get joy from giving. I do not think giving makes me a good person. I know several Ns that give large sums of money to gratify their names and aims (regardless, their donations do help various causes). Generally, I prefer to remain anonymous. My speaking out on the Angels’ behalf was simply to encourage others who share my views to join me.
This comment is exactly why you Rock FYC!! 🙃
🥰💞
“Not love that seeks something in return nor requires you to be above reproach, just unconditional love that any empath would joyfully give a child or a friend or even a stranger. That kind of love is abundant and endless.“
Thanks for your response one more time.
I just wanted you to see that empath’s love is conditional as well. As you wrote you would end the relationship since you value trust and loyalty.
1,2. Conditions are your friends are supposed to meet certain standards if they want to be in your life.
3. I’d say it would be more correct to say that you enjoy giving and offering your help not giving unconditional love.
AR, You are missing the point. I would end the relationship, not the love, but the love would shift from romantic to unconditional.
Again, relationships have conditions, Unconditional love does not.
Giving of my time or money is done because I choose to do so. It does not require unconditional love, but it may be present.
AR, As a caveat, I should add that I do not love everyone and I do not love everyone in the same way. My experience has been the opposite of yours. I used to not believe unconditional love existed (largely due to my upbringing) but as I matured and gained more insight, I very much experienced exactly that. I wish I could do it justice in words. So AR, perhaps keep an open mind on this concept. You never know what the future may hold for you.
FYC, will you take my hand in marriage? I share most of your views and of course that equates to matrimony. I love reading the different views when he repost. It’s amazing how my views have changed over the years.
I am okay with a solid No. 😊
Ha ha. No, it does not, and no.
One more question.
Do you help strangers in need because you love them or because you consider yourself as a good person and feel sorry for them?
Thank you in advance.
Unconditional love doesn’t and cannot exist in this world. We just sometimes fail to see those conditions or confuse attachment with love.
I used to believe in it myself though.
AR, unconditional love does exist. Irrespective of attachment. Hence it is free and more a state of being. I guess not everyone has experienced this.
FYC, i started to believe that unconditional love could exist when i met my ex. Me starting to believe in unconditional love has nothing to do with my family as i was mainly abused and neglected.
I am not missing any point. Ok, what do you understand by unconditional love then?
Will you continue to love a person who didn’t mind hurting your feelings and doesn’t care back? If yes, why?
Empathic individuals give without expecting anything in return because of who they are not because they love unconditionally.
AR, I am sorry to hear about your history of neglect and abuse. You deserved so much more.
The closest I can identify is, I unconditionally love my N family members and forgive them (it took quite a bit to get to this point, but it is far more freeing). I feel sorry for them because I see the bigger picture. This does not mean I remain in a relationship with them. I do not tolerate abuse.
It seems you do not separate relationship from love. I have not and will not remain in an unsupportive or unhealthy relationship.
I do have love and compassion for those I would never entertain a relationship with.
All relationships have needs and wants. This is why romantic love is a different experience from unconditional love.
Unconditional love exists in the absence of need or want. It simply exists freely.
Unconditional love can remain for an individual that you ended a relationship with. It does not mean you have any romantic feelings or any desire to either remain or reunite.
Honestly, why would you remain in a relationship that is abusive? Love and respect yourself more. Know the signs and opt out when they appear. Never let anyone in your past limit your future. You are worth so much more and life is short.
“Healthy, unconditional love does not equal no boundaries. To the contrary. Boundaries remain wholly intact and upheld, as do values. Unconditional love is not romantic love nor codependency (quite the opposite). Unconditional love is more a free state of appreciation, compassion and care that simply exists. I would say it exists outside the plane of self or relationship. Unconditional love may be rare, but when practiced, is very freeing.”
I reread your previous comment no need to answer my questions.
For me unconditional love=Love with no conditions.
But you are not giving that kind of love to anyone, right? It needs to be earned.
You don’t have to agree with my point of view of course.
You are correct that unconditional love is love without conditions. I think what you are missing is that not all love is unconditional. Most, but not all relationships are conditional. It is not black/white, all or none. You are making an erroneous inferential leap.
FYC,
I do differentiate love from relationship. I still maintain relationship with my family because we don’t choose which families we are born into and they are my blood relatives but i don’t love them.
Another case is that two people can love each other and not be in a relationship because feeling love is not enough for a relationship to work out. Maybe they are on different paths in their life or due to some other reasons?
I think a person with healthy boundaries and love for self can love unconditionally but choose to not engage in a relationship with a toxic person. I highly recommend the Necessary Endings by Henry Cloud.
“Boundaries define us. They define what is me and what is not me. A boundary shows me where I end and someone else begins, leading me to a sense of ownership. Knowing what I am to own and take responsibility for gives me freedom.” – Henry Cloud
It is not about boundaries Yolo, it is about avoiding the narcissist. You do not need to assert boundaries with non-narcissists who you are in a romantic relationship with because of the effect of emotional empathy. It is pointless trying to assert boundaries with a narcissist because we ignore them. You do not assert boundaries with us, you avoid us through the 5 No Contact Battles.
Hello HG, While I appreciate what you are saying about boundaries in terms of narcissists and agree with you completely regarding the 5 No Contact Battles, I will say this about boundaries and unconditional love:
Boundaries exist as an extension of our values. They are not tools or defenses put in place for the purpose of dealing with narcissists or difficult people. While it is true that those who have IEE will not typically breach boundaries (some cultures may), those who do not possess IEE may inadvertently breach boundaries, and yet are not narcissists per se. They will apologize and not revisit with another attempt.
When I made the comment for you about unconditional love, it was NOT in reference to any romantic notion whatsoever, nor regarding any infatuation whatsoever. It certainly was not regarding any abusive or narcissistic dynamic that masquerades as love, nor unrequited love. My comment was an empathetic one of compassion in recognition of your spirit/soul that deserved love from birth onward. This was not about relationships, or expectations or conditions or analysis of your behaviors in aggregate. It was a form of love, given freely, on a higher plain. No desire for anything in return. Take if for what it is worth. I realize not everyone may experience this, or if they do, they may call it something else. No worries.
My main point Yolo was that unconditional love simply cannot exist especially among adults and that we just fail to notice those conditions.
When it comes to romantic partners, you don’t fall in love at first sight, do you?(some spiritual people will say that it is possible, for instance if 2 people have a spiritual connection and when they meet each other for the first time, their soul can recognize each other. Even in this case, there was a condition which is spiritual connection)
Let’s take unconditional love of normal parents towards their children. For a parent to love a child “unconditionally”, that child needs to be his or her own child. There is blood relationship between child and parents. When child becomes adult, the parents don’t love their child the same way as they used to do because conditions changed.
Wow
The first time I read this, it brought tears to my eyes. I didn’t read it this time because I memorized it long ago yet it is your voice I “hear” when I recall the words from memory. I remember the way your rage felt while listening to it…..even if another can not feel this energy you hold, I do. I was and still am impressed of the control you have over it.
Twilight: I am astonished at how HG has also turned to make a breakthrough in the field regarding how this all works.
Last 2 lines are very revealing.
Do you feel that your father failed to protect you by not standing up to your mother?
I do not feel that, no.
I know that he failed.
Something else did not fail me though.
“I do not feel that, no.
I know that he failed.
Something else did not fail me though.”
Is it the defense of narcissism that did not fail you, from your perspective?
Correct.
Thank you for the confirmation, HG.
Thanks HG
HG, have you ever spoken to your father about how he failed you?
is this something you have considered doing? And if not, why not?
(I know I ask a lot of questions)
Not extensively.
Well done! 👏
Mr.H it’s starting to come out!
I see you pay it forward for the love you never had…….
Powerful!
Boooo!
So sad lonely empty. Has me in tears. The evil infects the innocent and the cycle begins
Dearest HG: So beautifully cold. I am sorry that anyone that I care about can write this poem.
Love this. Beautiful HG.