Lonely

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I like it when you are lonely. That is my favourite place for you. When we first meet if you make mention of feeling lonely, or send a self-pitying tweet decrying your loneliness then I am straight on to you. You may as well have taken a knife to your chest, slit it open and shouted, “Come and get me.” Those in a state of loneliness are massively susceptible to my overtures when I decide to engulf you in my bombardment of flattery and zealous appreciation. Those who have tired of their single status and wallowing in solitary confinement seize on this interest of mine. The red flags may be fluttering but you never see them or if you do, you think “how pretty”.

I may make you feel wanted and special but all I am doing is moving you. I am transporting you from loneliness in the real world to isolated splendour in my false reality. Once I have positioned you there I shall busy myself cutting you off from family, friends and acquaintances. You will readily go along with my fabricated denigrations of people you once held dear and who you saw regularly. You want more of the sugar that I am pouring on you. To do that you need to spend more time with me and thus less with anyone else. It is hardly a sacrifice though is it? Any dissenting voices are marginalised by cleverly constructed smear campaigns against these people (watch out – that campaign will be used against you in the not too distant future). You are an eager co-conspirator happy to discard these people (how can you be so callous?) with the repeated promise and reward of more of my intoxicating attention.

Once all those ties have been cut you are mine. You are dependent on me for everything. You have nobody to turn to and thus your focus will always be on me. As you try harder to please me, the realisation of your isolation becomes all the more apparent. You can feel the tendrils of loneliness wrapping around you once again. I know you will feel this and I know you will do all the more to cling onto me, your life raft, your beacon of hope in the wilderness. Anything to avoid being left alone. I am afraid it is too late. Your isolation was sealed the moment you listened to me. You are so alone nobody can hear you scream.

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249 Comments

  1. Dear HG 🙌💙
    If I hug a man, and he touches the side of my face, is that a red flag? It seems loving and I like it but no one has done it before.
    I’m asking because I’m a Narc magnet.
    When I was sitting with the one who touches my face, the Somatic who chokes me came over and sat in between with his back blocking the other man. It was aggressive
    The one who touches my face also kisses my cheek and pulls me up from the ground to hug me. He kissed goodbye to me in the air when I was standing with the Somatic.

    1. The act of somebody touching your face when you hung that person is not a red flag in itself. You evidently know the individual well enough to hug this person and therefore the reciprocation of your affection by touching your face is entirely appropriate.

      Of course, a narcissist might touch your face when you hug the narcissist, but that act in itself is not an indicator of the person being a narcissist. I am a narcissistic psychopath and I eat cheese, but that act does not determine that I am a narcissistic psychopath.

      1. Relieved to read that eating cheese does not, in fact, make somebody a narcissistic psychopath. I do not trust the lactose intolerant.

  2. SMH (and anyone else attempting to use a gift credit card),

    “I don’t understand the discrepancy or know what I am supposed to put into the name and address lines, since the card is not registered that way.”

    You do not have to register your card to use it; just verify wherever you purchase it that it is ‘activated’ and keep the receipt (just in case). I don’t usually put my actual name but instead, I put “Gift recipient” (since that IS the name of the card) or W.C. – whatever I’m feeling like at the moment (I also use an old business address of mine since nothing is physically being “shipped” or use a Post Office address like FYC suggested). Often times you will be told it could take up to 24hrs to activate, but I have never had to wait that long; I have always been able to use them immediately.

    1. Hi WC, I tried with several different names and addresses. I did not, however, use any real address I have ever had but maybe I should try it with a real random address rather than making one up, and put gift recipient as the name, as you suggest. I’ll give it a try!

  3. It’s something Renarde—although I do think they (normals) are targeted some (even often at times when in the right hunting grounds such as drinking in a bar) but they just brush off the advances more—their “not right” alarm is more advanced. If I sense a not right alert it feels comfortable even though I do get the alarm—I just push mute, often repeatedly. It’s re-learning everything I’ve ever done and my entire system of relating to people. Mostly I am turning it into a win but I’m also faltering in some areas—I’m still attracted to asshole men basically but I’m making progress writing off females I would typically interact with that are likely narcissists. I wish this were an overnight thing or fix.

    1. A normal coworker of mine had this happen to him. He has empathic traits but some narc ‘puffiness’ emerges every so often. He had a narcissist chick messing with him wherein he showed me the exchanges and I informed him of what she was (gave HG’s site of course) and then he said I was able to predict everything she did, etc. (It wasn’t hard–she was a Mid Ranger so I told him that when he breaks up with her she is going to cry, which she did, following all her manipulation.)

      He was able to brush it off fairly easily and move on. I also wonder if it has something to do with men having overall better boundaries than women. I can recall when narcs pursued me and in my head thinking, ‘I don’t want him to think I am a bitch if I don’t react positively to his advances.’ I don’t think men have this problem as much.

      Certain narcissists have hurt me more than others, so not all narcs are created equal, in that respect. I find Lessers and Lower Mid Rangers easier to brush off than the Middle and Upper Mid Ranger.

      1. Excellent point Bibi. (Re, different narcissists with differing abilities to create opportunities for us to “brush it off”)
        Not too many of us care if we tick off a lesser, in fact, they are amusing to observe. An upper mid ranger would have more capacity to generate a “slap” non-verbally at a dinner party for maybe a faux pas than even a middle lesser/mid who may well end up there—but the social stamina of an upper mid creates a different air. I’m thinking of my first husbands father. I highly suspect he was the root of many evils in that family and he fits this particular profile. Say, someone made a cultural faux pas by means of reference. A friend of mine while we were just traveling made a slight cultural error that I didn’t want to correct but she did make it several times. It drove me a little batty but I kept my mouth shut of course as wasn’t a big deal and she would have felt bad. She is an educated woman but my ex’s dad would have non-verbally roasted her— with her not knowing why. It would have stung. A lesser of lower middle—who really cares. **Sense of superiority/control/belittling, etc.

        1. Lorelei:

          Interesting about your friend. I actually have no problem correcting people (LOL) but I also don’t mind it if someone tells me I am mistaken and wrong about something (granted as long as it is tactful and not done in a ‘you’re an idiot!’ kind of way, which will only invite defensiveness). Anyone can misspeak or have a brain fart.

          I have had to work on this as I came to learn that not everyone wants to be corrected and I know for me, I appreciate when someone informs me I am wrong on a fact, etc. But not everyone feels this way.

          I’ll give an example many years ago with a friend of mine from school. I’ll use my rather than hers, but let’s say her name was Bibi

          She informed me she met a grandmother of a boyfriend who kept calling her Barbara the entire time rather than Bibi. I asked why the grandmother did this. ‘I was not about to correct her!’ She said.

          I found this strange.

          And here is an example of me. This friend showed me her ID card and said, ‘God this is a terrible picture of me,’ wherein I responded, ‘Yea it’s not the best.’

          Then I later heard that she was complaining about me to others, ‘I can’t believe she said my photo was bad!’

          WTF? I’m just confirming what she said. I’m pretty honest. But my point was that who cares? It’s a school ID, not a wedding pic. Was she just wanting me to disagree with her?

          I’m not close with this friend anymore, because while she was not a narcissist, her passive-aggression like this got on my nerves and I just withdrew over time.

          1. I know Bibi.. I thought of how to be tactful but it wasn’t worth the devaluation! She could easily have scolded me for waking up in a long sleeve shirt (tropical destination) and underwear hungover one morning too. (I’m a pajama snob when sober)

  4. Spent 6 years with him with one break up initiated by him that lasted 7 months. He begged to come back, agreeing to marriage. Lovebombed me, not knowing he was a Narc. Moved in together but never got the ring: never told me my budget, how could I pick a ring? Looked at rings once, then never again. I should have insisted. He became withdrawn, blamed work. Then started withholding sex. In his 60’s, had problems before so I didn’t want to embarrass him. Finally, he sent me on a spa vacation because I was stressed. When he picked me up at the airport, then took me to dinner, all seemed normal. When we got to the house I saw he moved out while I was away. We spoke every day. No argument.
    He said “ We need to talk”. I just laughed. About what? Why did he do this? “I thought it would be easier”. Yeah, for him. He paid the rent until I could pack and move out. “Take your time” Like that made him the good guy. I moved 1600 miles away and never said goodbye. Let the landlord tell him I left. 3 months since he moved out. One month for me. Contacted me once “You left your sewing machine, should I send it? He also owed me $5,O00 dollars. That was a month ago. No check, no sewing machine. Oh, and he said “ I never cheated on you and I never lied” I n his warped pathetic mind perhaps. Never thought he was a Narc until he pulled this stunt. Told him it was cold, calculated,cowardly and cruel. His answer : “Beat me up if it makes you feel better”. Wow. Just wow. Waiting for the hoover. Can believe I let him steal 6 years of my life. I’m 58. I’m done with ‘love’. Better to be alone

  5. Narcs count on you being lonely, unfullfilled, voids,low self esteem,codependant tendencies….the list goes on and on. They want there to be a need or weakness they can fill in.
    My narc zoned in on this from the get go.
    My narc mother on the other hand resented the fact i didnt rely on her but little did she know i did emotionally. I wasnt willing to be under her thumb to gain her approval and love and that is why im the black sheep and as painful as its been i can say im proud that i am! I could never be her golden child itd mean selling my soul and being owned. I could never be her “yes mum” thatd disgust me.

  6. They like it when we feel this way. They also like it when we argue and dont get along with other family members because it makes them feel powerful. Although these family members have picked up on these kinds of behaviors. You can only hide it for so long.
    Also my adults kids are used as lieutenants. My husband was texting my daughter all fricken night to see what was going on. This is not a way of living. All about control !

  7. This is sad. I think it’s what MRN must have done to IPPS, which is why she is always alone (though I know that alone doesn’t mean lonely). He couldn’t do it to me because I had a life outside his work hours, and I would tell him about it. I actually think he was the loneliest of all because he could not attach to anyone. He was kind of obsessed by the idea of ‘closeness’ yet never seemed able to achieve it.

    1. SMH, Interesting you bring up “closeness.” Narcx ALWAYS talked about “intimacy,” but just couldn’t do intimacy. Of course, he blamed “our” inability to achieve a stable, intimate relationship on me only.

      1. lisk,

        That is very interesting. It is probably more common than we think. Was Narcx a mid-ranger? MRN was (obv) and he was semi-aware of his limitations – shallow, lack of emotional complexity and emotions in general, flat affect, seeming like two different people, etc. If I collected everything he said about these issues and what I observed, it would paint a picture of a lonely man trapped by his own limitations – knowing what he should want and half wanting it but as you say, unable to achieve it. Sex was the only area where he seemed emotionally normal, but it also scared him. That is a reason to feel sorry but it does not excuse the deliberate manipulations.

        MRN did not blame me, thankfully. And I did not blame him. (I also did not know what the problem was at the time.) But he did once blame IPPS for being ‘cold’ and they seemed to live parallel lives. I (IPSS) simply told him that he was unhappy but I was not the cause, so I could not make him happy.

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  9. He moved me alright—out of state twice, to two new cities that I could really only explore with him, when he wasn’t working.

    Looking back, there was so much opportunity to explore and enjoy. Given all the gaslighting and word salads and silent treatments during those periods, it’s clear he didn’t really want to explore very far. We went out to dinner a lot, but didn’t do much discovery.

    Most probably he did not want to be seen with a woman so that he could successfully troll the towns for other sources of fuel. I remember wanting to try certain new restaurants and he would poo-poo them, saying his colleagues told him they served bad food. Those establishments were probably saved for an IPSS or a DLS.

    All in all, I was alone and miserable and disconnected from healthy human contact. The different therapists I sought to help me figure out my Narcx-related issues, unbeknownst to me at the time, were of no use until after the last disengagement when my new therapist figured him out by our third session. Woot!

  10. When a narcissist tells you to talk to other “boys”
    not even men 😂 . On a dating app . But tells you he Loves you say nothing but positive things just a few negative ones and says I take you just the way you are . Tells you many women chase him because he looks so good 🤣 but I talk to you because I Like you and respect you , you are High value so Beautiful even with you BPD.Does some hot and cold after that long voiceclip . I vanish few hours he blocks me ,after 1 Day chase he says you are better off without me exploded cussing How crazy I Made him and he is Busy going Back to his ex talks about that app again and he likes me I just live to far away I wish him luck he blocks account comes back in 2 Min , says it was all a lie and I just stress him out and needs some
    space Will add me again on monday . Monday came he told me he doesn’t want to stay in contact anymore Didn’t delete me . I annoyed him he blocked me again but I asked him to do it . I made A account on the dating app and the first person I is him he vanished .Now a lot of his location try to “Get me” ..

    When a narcissists do something like that are They behind the profiles ? Testing you or Busy new IPPS

    He’s a Somatic lesser or lesser midrange no IPPS . Lives alone . Many online IPSS. I was IPSs Candidate .

    1. I recommend you organise a consultation so I can provide you with a blow by blow account of what has been happening in the interaction that you describe.

  11. he was determined to make me believe that i am lonely, i was not. i never had many friends but i was happy like that, i trully love to be alone, but he would always say things like “i was looking at you, and you seemed so lonely” or ” i’m the only one who really gets you” and since he played so good the male version of liza, i eventualy believed him and ended up feeling lonely. but i’v returned to be me once againe ( i’m not sure if it is good news).

  12. Pingback: Lonely ⋆ NarcTopia
  13. Lonely. what a triggering word for me ATM.

    When my narc first came on to me, after 15 years of long-distance friendship (the first 5 we worked together with him in an indirect supervisory role to me) he said to me, “Back then I always sensed a sadness in you that drew me in.”

    It scared me that, that would be a draw for him but he was correct, things were sad back then and I told myself he was just feeling protective, and brushed it off.

    But, over the previous years of friendship I had built a great, very fulfilling life for myself – I was so happy, proud and STRONG and finally felt “worthy” of him and opened up. Now that I’ve lost it all, I truly am sad, embarrassed and lonely again and I feel I’m growing too old to make it out again. I’m gutted. Did he do this on purpose?

    1. You’re never too old to rebuild, Maria.

      In fact, “I feel I’m growing too old to make it out again” could very well be huge draw to a Narc, so you must rebuild and reinforce yourself against the possibility of a future infiltration!

      1. Thank you Lisk… i do hope you’re right. I have my good days but still far too many bad days too. Definitely don’t want to attract any more narcs.

          1. Oooh another great question Lorelei!

            HG please, please, please can we have article on instinctive planning.

            I’ll behave myself forever…

          2. It is a detailed matter to explain and is explained in consultation to avoid the risk of misunderstanding and confusion.

    2. Hi Maria,
      You’re never too old to get your strength back, how long have you been out? I understand the feelings of embarrassment, that is uppermost for me at the moment too. He did it because he could, because he is untroubled by empathy, conscience or remorse. Have you started going out again?

      1. Thank you for saying that @NotMe and for asking. My situation is very precarious and complicated atm… and sort of like a Dicken’s story early on… so I can’t make new friends or forge any new relationships because of the situation I’m in right now.

        I am currently in an abusive marriage, with children. My husband is not my narc… but he’s bipolar and really scares me sometimes. I basically just try to stay out of his way when he comes home, unless he is abusive towards our kids, then I can’t help but start a fight so that he focuses his anger on me.

        I had a home business, started it with $3 left in my paypal account, originally to help hubby pay the bills, but over the next 4 years, after reinvesting every penny I made and sacrificing time outside with the kids, I made 40k from home in 2016…and my husband had become so abusive by then that I shifted plans and started to hide money and had a plan to leave… then my narc friend came onto me, after years of being a complete gentleman… told me he and his wife were divorcing… he had her removed from the house (his brother-in-law is the mayor of his city, his brother is the chief of police and his other brother is a US Senator) he was “suicidal”, I was the only thing that made him happy, all he wanted was “my love”, we’d “find a way” (I moved 700 miles away 8 years ago) etc. All lies. I got so wrapped up in this love and my concern for his wellbeing that I just let my business fail… bad reviews (formally all 5 star) banned from Ebay and Etsy now… so many roads permanently closed, but my marriage is more abusive than ever now and I’ve got to rebuild and save alone now and find new paths.

        I would be making over 100k this year, from home, if he had never come and upended my life with lies. He watched my children grow up from afar… thousands of hrs of conversation between us about both our families… who cares about me, how could he do this to them??

        I have to keep putting one foot in front of the other for my kids and I’m a strong woman but this has rocked my world more than anything ever has and I’m a woman who was orphaned twice as a child, lived in foster homes, was forced to work as a call girl for a bit to survive when I was younger… so that’s really saying something. I always stayed positive before. It’s really hard to now.

        1. Maria,

          You are a strong woman; one can just tell from your story. And resourceful and determined….given the way that you developed your own business in the family situation you described. I’m sorry that it all got derailed by your long distance narc friend whom you met.

          I have to ask bluntly, after reading your story – have you ever considered doing a narc detector on your abusive husband?

          1. WC

            I wholeheartedly concur with all of your post but especially the last paragraph.

            Maria

            You might be very shocked indeed by how many Middle rangers hide their NPD under a differential diagnosis. Victim runs very strong in the Middle School. That’s why we hate them all so much and tend to want to tip them over balconies, so pathetic as they are.

            They whine, they plead they moan. And they hide! So, so many times I hear these refrains;

            ‘He’s sulking’. No he’s giving you a PST/AST depending on locations.

            ‘He wont return my calls.’ But then he does. Yup, a Middle who doesn’t know his own fucking mind and doling out his misplaced hoovers.

            ‘But he has ASD, BPD or another (insert your own) cluster B personality type.’ I’m sure he does in his own little pea brain. Also expect Bipolar entering in here, all tangentially like.

            All of these groups are people who have a serious mental health complaint. By allowing these viper’s to coil in our midst, they detract from the true sufferers who are largely gentle and utterly harmless. NPD people always shout and scream the loudest about their so-called mental health ‘issue’ and more importantly use it as an excuse for their own bad behaviours.

            Now it is possible that your husband could be a member of both the ASD and NPD camps. Anything is possible but it’s probably highly unlikely. Just another manipulation to tug on your poor heartstrings.

            It doesn’t seem like it now but you will heal. What you have done before you can easily, very easily do again. And very probably with your increased wisdom, much more energetically efficiently too.

            There is no such word as ‘can’t’

            Do organise a consult. I think you will find it worthwhile. If you cannot afford it, apply to the Angel Assistance Fund.

            All the best.

    3. Maria, I echo what others say. For me, it took rebuilding from within and trying to find what I felt was missing. Why did I think that this one lone person could fill it for me? In my case, I was so in need of approval, attention and validation and he gave all that to me. My narc was not romantic but more intellectual/creative and for me, that is more personal and intimate than…penetration.

      I have done a lot of self work in rebuilding my ego. I learned more about my personality, more about narcs through HG and worked on my own creative pursuits, read, wrote, watched good films and even lifted weights to build a good physical stamina. I can lift an 18 lb kettlebell over my head repeatedly and it isn’t hard. I never could do that in my life before. At 43 I could kick my 23 yr old ass.

      I remember envying myself before I knew this narc that messed with my mind so much. Now I know I am stronger than I was even before knowing him–emotionally, intellectually and physically, and I even have come to appreciate even more those genuine empaths in my life.

      But all this is great. Tomorrow is Monday though and I hate Mondays. Let’s see how I feel then. Hell, if I could do it, so can you. This blog is such a tremendous support. And HG is here to guide and offer his advice. For that I am forever thankful. I would not be as advanced as I am were it not for your work, HG. Thank you.

        1. [Ruthlessly appropriating a Russel Brand gag now. It did make me chortle though}

          I’ll tell you why, Mr Bob God that I don’t like Monday’s. They suck. However, I can see you’ve made a great fortune. Dining out on one song like, forever?

          Did you not write anything else?

          P.S Where did the millions go?

        2. I don’t like Mondays because they feel like 5 days of drudgery ahead. Ironically I have a coworker who loves Mondays but hates Wednesdays. My mood feels better by Wednesday. But today is Monday and I actually feel OK.

          My mood has been better since the weather has gotten colder. I love fall. Where I live, it gets so hot in the summer, esp. in Aug that you can’t go out and do things like hike, run, etc. So I end up suffering from that seasonal depression that most get, but I get it in the summer.

      1. Bibi,
        you beleived he could because narcissists tend to have the Steve Jobes effect, they create a need in you even if you didn’t have it in the first place, when you are convinced that , yes, you need that, they tell you that you are lucky because they have the solution to your problem, you are then verry happy and eager to buy your solution.
        then they start coming up with updates and new versions without consulting you, and when you can no more afford their material your are left with a need you can’t cater to.
        congratulations for your acheivements in sports, it is verry impressive, i’v always thought that you needed muscles to have muscles, you proved that i’m just lazy.

          1. Renarde,
            i’m a Bill Gates fangirl and a PC worshiper, so linking apple to evry problem i can finde is my favorit sport.

          2. Liza

            I admire the Apple aesthetic and locked down OS but I’m just a poor little girl.

            Even then I get antsy about all the back doors Gates left in the system.

          3. Renarde,
            i don’t like apple mainly because of their culte approche, and rigid style, PCs are more flexible.
            if by backdoors you mean security issues, actually it is not that aplle’s security is exeptionaly good (don’t get me wrong, it is of a hight quality) but apple has the advantage of not being targeted, most malwares target windows systems because it is the most used OS.
            but if you work under linux, you can have the flexibility of a PC, and a good security system you don’t even need an anti-virus softwear since here again you have the advantage of not being targeted.

          4. And that, Liza, is exactly what we all are here to obtain, isn’t it?

            “ . . . the advantage of not being targeted.”

          5. Renarde,
            Mint is verry elegant indeed, but i prefer Fedora, i like the uptade rate and the fact that Red hat is now part of IBM is a good back up.

          6. Lisk,
            i’m afraid that the not being targeted part is not dependent on us, we just need a verry good anti-virus.

          7. Liza

            Funny you should say that. I have written the bones of a workshop on healing after NPD. One part is NPD as virus. The importance of NC to stop being reinfected.

        1. Interesting you mention Jobs, as I recently watched that HBO doc. on sociopath Elizabeth Holmes. She had a Jobs obsession and would mimic him down to the black turtlenecks. She managed to con people out of millions of dollars simply b/c she was so persuasive and they just believed her, despite her ‘innovation’ being a piece of crap that would not work.

          1. Bibi,
            ah yes, i heard about it, it is frightening to observe just how effective good communication skills can be.

          2. Bibi
            I watched that doc. on Elizabeth Holmes. As close to a robot with real skin as you can get. Creepy AF, but of course snagged a guy that is heir to a hotel fortune. Last I read, they were reported to be married and she is to stand trial in 2020.

          3. Thanks for the prompt guys! Intresting notion on Holmes!

            A sucker born every minute.

          4. NA–

            Yup. She could not be more cliche a sociopath. I also read the book Bad Blood (easy read) and that goes into even more dirt on her and her company. She would triangulate 2 groups of engineers and tell them that the one who could figure something out faster gets to keep their jobs.

            A number of the employees were on visas dependent on employment. Everyone was miserable and stressed. It reminded me a lot of Jonestown. And here she was giving talks and claiming she was going to ‘change the world’ (grandiose platitudes) with nothing specific to show for it. I am looking forward to the trial, as she deserves jail for what she did. She is disgusting.

          5. Jobs may have had thoroughly narcy qualities, but there was substance behind it. When they Brookefrom ght him back to introduce the iPhone, you could see genuine passion for the technology. Look for it on YT. He knew this was a breakthrough product.

            He was right, of course. It’s amazing to think how recently people had to look it up a restaurant in the phone book, call for reservations, get a map for directions, etc. Now you can do all of that in the car, and even decide if place A has too long a wait list, let’s go to place B, wait, where is that? Let’s call and see if they have any tables. No, it would take longer to drive there than so at Place A, etc.

            Holmes copied the style, but not the substance.

          6. Jobs was one of ours. He did a number on Wozniak when they were both with Atari and that’s just at the start.

          7. Yes, HG, he was one of you, but there was substantial knowledge and ability behind it–as, obviously, there is with you.

            Holmes had sod-all behind the facade. She may be one of those con artists who’d rather a) trick people into buying a worthless product or terrify her employees into working, than b) build a successful empire based on repeat business for a great product and devoted employees who are proud to contribute to an awesome company. She’d prefer that even if it meant less money, whistle-blowers seeking vengeance, and the whole thing blowing up in her face–as it did.

          8. A comment about Jobs: he was a good salesman and businessman but had he never lived there would still be Smart Phones and other crap like it. He just made his i-phone ‘cool’.

            Agree that he knew his stuff (though he never made it himself but rather his engineers and code workers did) but he wasn’t a fraud like Holmes. He was a narcissist and a horrible person but he didn’t give people poor test results that could lead to incorrect medical treatment and death.

    4. Maria, You were born worthy, are worthy, and ever will be worthy. No one else determines your worth. You are a treasure. Embrace your inherent value and do not seek your value in others or through giving. The same woman that took $3 and turned it into $40k is within you still. You have survived many blows and you will survive this too. But to avoid more Ns, you will be best served by choosing you and your needs and those of your children over others’ needs. Focus on you. Think of it like this: You are a vessel, if you do not fill your own vessel, what do you have to give? Stop giving anyone the opportunity to drain you. It is time to honor yourself, love yourself and refill your vessel. For the future, keep in mind a kind and healthy person will seek to add to your life, thus your vessel over flows, they do not seek to drain it.

        1. Hi EmP, I have not had the empath detector consult yet. If I were to guess, and I say this not in an aspirational way, I would say I most closely align with super, magnet. I have a strong sense of self, good self esteem, my emotional empathy runs very deep, but I also have narcissistic qualities. I’m fairly certain about the magnet cadre as this describes me IRL to a tee.

          1. FYC, thanks for your reply. I strongly recommend you have your Empath Detector consultation, when you are able to, of course. I am a big proponent of self-knowledge. It’s such a great gift to give to oneself! (I remember I had my school/cadres completely wrong).

            I am interested because you really seem to take people’s suffering AT HEART. Obviously the vast majority of readers are empaths and therefore wanting to help others, heal, etc. but in your case it really stands out (see your appeal for the Angel Assistance fund – it was you, wasn’t it?). I find this very ‘edifying’ (as HG would say) – and I might be wrong but I smell the scent of the Saviour cadre. You could be both Saviour and Magnet (I am a hybrid of four cadres for example).

          2. Emp—I really don’t know what all these sub-divisions are. Is there an article? I had this done but don’t really understand anything aside from being a mixture and not a narcissist. The trait characteristics I’m not clear on. It’s not a big deal, it’s irrefutable that I’m a magnet for this issue and also find the attractions come from me just as much.

          3. Hi Lorelei, there are a few articles dealing with the different cadres of empaths: saviour, magnet, etc. if you want to know more in depth.

          4. I’ll look up the words—it basically summarizes one thing—having a proclivity for idiocy! We do some stupid things. At least if we were vampires we would have no accountability. I’m getting messages from a work person—these are hoovers. I feel bad ignoring them and have to remember he is a narcissist but my first inclination is to feel bad for being rude. Then I have to laugh because his sexual prowess is reputed to be lacking and he’s so dumb he’s unaware his “CV” is well discussed! It is really interesting to me why this stuff doesn’t seem to plague normals and how we have what we have that triggers this sort of “stuff.”

          5. Lorelei

            I’ve often thought on why norms dont see it.

            I’m rapidly firming the opinion they have a ‘filter’.

          6. Thanks for your feedback, EmP. It is always interesting to see things from someone else’s perspective. When I take it I will let you know the results. I probably have a slice of savior, but magnet is far more predominate on a daily basis in real life. Saving others does not drive me, but I speak out or take action as I deem necessary or warranted. I would say I am equally driven by heart and logic; I have an abundance of both.

            I made the appeal for the Angels because it surprises me that such a fund would not receive more support from the greater body *empathetic* blog followers, especially with a $1 drive. I wanted to address some barriers to giving, and to light a fire for AAF support. I am grateful for what I have learned here and I believe HG has the most accurate theoretical framework on narcissism. No one else offers what HG does. The knowledge he imparts changes lives. How could anyone here not have the heart, or four quarters to support that?

          7. FYC, I would support it but I do not know how to do that without HG knowing who I am, and I do not want that to happen unless I know who he is. MRN knew who I was but I did not know who he was for the longest time. Not going through that sort of narc entanglement again. I therefore will not do anything on HG’s site that requires a credit card. I have never had a consultation in part for that reason. I have not paid for extra reading material, etc (Amazon is different of course). If someone (you?) can explain to me how I can make a donation without HG knowing who I am, I will do it. I see people talking about visa gift cards, for instance, but I have no idea what those are.

          8. I’ve no interest in who you are. Use a gift card, NA will explain how to do it.

          9. I know you have no interest, HG, but I am uncomfortable with it. It’s about me and my experiences, not about you. More generally, this might be an overlooked issue for a lot of people. I don’t know.

          10. HG, If you had an anonymous P.O. box or something like that, I would happily send you cash! No return address. Easy.

          11. That would surely get you in trouble, HG. They’d think you were dealing! I could always leave it under a rock in Hyde Park and tell you where it is (jk). No worries. I have gotten lots of good instructions from the empaths on here and now know how to do it. Going to buy that gift card today and make a donation to Angels.

          12. Hi SMH, I had the same issue as I am a very private person. I do not think HG would be inappropriate toward anyone of his readers/customers; he is too self aware and intelligent and professional, and has invested too much in his legacy. Regardless, many may prefer to remain anonymous as does HG.

            To accomplish anonymity while giving, buy a VISA gift card (available at most grocery or convenience stores). You can anonymously make a donation of any amount, up to the entire purchase price of the card directly at the checkout. You can also pay for a consult the same way. DO NOT select a reloadable VISA as this is registered on a website with your full identity information and your name is verified and shared in the transaction. Create a free anonymous email account for email consults.

            If anyone is concerned their N may inappropriately access their anonymous email, choose a separate, ultra secure email, such as protonmail.com, memorize the password and do not save it in your keychain, and password protect your device. If questioned by your N, say you read an article that password protection is recommended (there are many such security articles re: devices).

            If you want to book an audio consult, and prefer not to use Skype audio for any reason, you can buy a burner phone at a very low cost and purchase a pay-as-you-go minutes. Neither requires personal information to set up, simply purchase with cash. If this does not appeal to you, you can borrow a phone that is not tied to you (a friend or business) or you can use a computer that is not tied to you.

            PayPal requires a name, and real address and phone, so if you desire a non identifiable PayPal, you will need to use modified information (screen name, mailing only address, burner phone number) or borrow that of a friend.

            Thank you for asking SMH. I am sure others may feel the same way you do.

          13. Got it, FYC. Thank you very much for those instructions. One final question, can one use a Visa gift card via Pay Pal without using PP? PP lets you pay for things with credit cards now without having a PP account. Would it be the same with a Visa gift card? That is, you don’t have to log into PP at all – just enter the gift card number? I don’t want to purchase a gift card only to discover when I get to PP that I have to connect it to myself. I do have a fake email and even a fake name, but not a fake address etc. I once registered on Amazon with my fake name and email (can’t remember why – I think because someone gave me an Amazon branded tablet and I didn’t want Amazon to know everything about me – I just put 00000 where the credit card number should be and voila, I had a fake Amazon account!).

            HG, you know you taught us well – boundaries, know who you are dealing with, just say no, and all that. It is not that I do not trust you. I have no reason to trust you or not to trust you. It is just that I am thinking about consequences now and listening to that little voice inside that says ‘nope, not comfortable with this.’

          14. You are welcome, SMH. From what I understand, it used to be easy to set up a fake PayPal account, but due to security issues, they changed what’s required in the last couple years. If you want an anonymous PayPal, use your screen name, your fake email, an address that is legit but undeliverable (such as the street address of a postal store in any city you choose–nothing will be sent there anyway) and a borrowed or burner phone number. They will seek to verify your account via text on the phone you provide. It is possible that the account could be closed given their policy against fake accounts, but even this would not affect the balance on your gift card that can be used anywhere. If this does not appeal to you, just use the gift card directly as you would any VISA without a PayPal account.

          15. Thank you again, FYC for walking me through this. I think I’ll just bypass a PP account altogether. It’s too much to keep track of all the fake stuff. Today I was in a tech store and the salesman told me about a site called privacy.com which basically allows you to pay for things with single use virtual credit cards. Since you are a tech person, you might know about this or want to look into it further.

            Got the gift card and am excited to make a donation. It will be nice to do a good deed for someone else and also to not feel like I am freeloading here.

          16. As noted elsewhere, that link goes to a porn site so he must have gotten it wrong. Tech really is not difficult, it just feels difficult or intimidating or maybe annoying. Since tech is not known for being user-privacy centric, you have to take matters into your own hands or be annoyed/effected by the consequences. Such is the state of the world we live in.

            Thank you again for going the extra mile to make a donation, SMH, it is most kind of you, and very appreciated by some deserving soul desperate to be freed from N abuse. You and everyone who donates is helping HG change lives for the better.

          17. Hi FYC, You mean privacy.com? Maybe it is supposed to be private.com? I was on the site. It wasn’t a porn site. Seems like a legit business, though I did not look into it much. I also watched the salesman go on it and no porn came up (we were in the store in the open, and the business is run by very religious people, so it would have been quite dangerous for him had porn come up!)

          18. I agree FYC – if you want the truth, you have to come to HG.

            And regarding my feedback to you, I love to witness people’s generosity and concern for others and I like to acknowledge that generosity. I know the person doesn’t need any acknowledgement, but still.
            There is so much that can and must be done to enlighten and to help. Personally, it’s the children (and stepchildren) of narcissists I am concerned with the most.

          19. EmP, Thank you for your kindness. I agree and know too well, no one remains unscathed when raised by a N. Your good heart and generosity is very much appreciated.

          20. SMH,
            Buy a prepaid Visa credit card/gift card and use that. I even have a separate PayPal that is only used to pay HG when required and does not have my real address etc.

          21. Thanks, Supernova DE. Never occurred to me to make a fake Pay Pal and I did not know what Visa gift cards were, but this route seems to be the consensus. Glad I asked!

          22. SMH, that is interesting you say that, as I am the opposite. I don’t mind if HG knows who I am (I have introduced myself privately via my real name). I don’t mind it because if getting a sense of his type of readers gives him insight into future articles, I am good with that.

            I don’t wish to know who HG is. Reason being is it would likely be more difficult for me to ‘share’ as when I see someone’s eyeballs–even if in just a photo, it becomes more personal I guess. Which is weird. I suppose it also minimizes the risk of any attachment forming in my head. It eliminates it, actually.

            What I DON’T want is ever the Mid Ranger knowing I come on here, because if he did, it would only be conformation in his mind that I am still ‘obsessed’ with him. Also, I don’t want others in my life sifting around and reading my personal thoughts/ vulnerabilities which I am fine sharing here with those who understand but it’s not for them to know.

          23. Hi Bibi, I guess it has to do with our personal histories. I am pretty open in general (and I don’t think MRN could even follow these conversations, even if he knew about them!) but I have had several experiences now – not just with MRN – of fakers. I had to exert a lot of energy at the end of the FR with MRN (actually, months past the end of the FR), to get him to delete all of our correspondence because I used a real email and he used a fake one (as well as a fake name for the first few months that I knew him). Of course by then I knew who he was but the email thing always made me uncomfortable. I could have switched to a fake one but I didn’t know I had a reason to really and by then it was too late. I am also easy to find online – I can’t even hide my workplace or work email – so I am extra careful now. I did a lot of stupid things the past few years but not any longer! I don’t much care who HG is. It is more that if he gets to be anonymous, I want to maintain my anonymity too. It’s about balance. Now I know how to do that while making donations or purchases, thanks to the good empaths here!

          24. SMH, You have reason to consider your information. Privacy is a privilege that must be claimed, it is not a given. I have no problem with HG, it is more about privacy in general. I am very aware of how data is stored, accessed, shared, analyzed and managed and how it can be misused or breached, so I protect my information. Even though I am private and take precautions, I have still had my data stolen, my identity stolen, and a stalker pursue me. It can be annoying to potentially dangerous. It’s wise to use your personal email and phone only for trusted sources. Use alternate emails for online purposes. If you want to protect your IP address, use a VPN. If anyone wants to know if their email/phone has been breached/pwned, visit here: https://haveibeenpwned.com It might be a drag to manage your data or change accounts to protect your identity, but it is better than the alternative. HG is wise to maintain his privacy and we would do well to do the same.

          25. FYC, I’ve never been hacked or had my identity stolen, though I have been stalked (obv). Sorry all that has happened to you. I do take a lot of precautions with my real info and I have used that pawned site. I highly recommend it to everyone.

          26. Thank you for your kindness, SMH, but no sympathy necessary. None of the attempts were successful as I make an effort to remain informed and I take prompt action. That said, anyone can be victimized, including me. It pays to be cognizant of the value of privacy and the actions one needs to take to eliminate the risks.

            By the way, I saw your comment regarding “privacy.com” and typed that into my browser and it immediately redirected to a porn site! So I just want to let others know not to investigate that link unaware.

            Privacy will never be a simple “go to X website so you can remain private without effort” (as evidenced by Lifelock’s various failures over the years). The reason being, such a site would be a very appealing target to hack. Real privacy is provided by multiple layers of security and these require your effort. It may not be prioritized as fun or easy or even interesting, but just like the lock on your front door, it it’s still worth the time, effort and money to purchase and install. Once purchased and in place, it works pretty effortlessly.

            That said, I think you made several valid points with regard to peoples perceptions and potential reticence to act.

          27. Hi FYC, That’s weird about privacy.com because I am looking at it now and it looks completely normal to me. There are lots of app downloads and a long reddit discussion about it. Very millennial thing it seems. In any case, glad none of the hacking attempts were successful!

          28. SMH, When I click on your link it works. When I type privacy.com in google it redirects to a porn site. Thank you for providing the live link. I usually avoid direct links to avoid any inadvertent malware that can be embedded. In this case, your link is the better way to go! Thank you again for your kindness!

          29. I’m having trouble. PayPal doesn’t accept my new card. I also tried to pay by using NA’s method and it doesn’t accept it. I checked online to see if it had the correct funds and it does there’s nothing wrong with it. Is PayPal having a glitch at all?

          30. It’s not them, there’s something going on with the card. I’ll try later again and if not call. BS!!

          31. I believe FYC had problems too, so that’s three of us. I am thinking it might be a browser problem so I’ll try with a different one tomorrow.

          32. SP, I’ll try again tomorrow once I am sure the card has been activated (I think it can take up to 24 hours). Maybe it’s the browser? I tried with Firefox but can switch to something else. I’ll let you know.

          33. SMH, I found the same info about the 24 hrs after trying desperately once and again. It’s fucking frustrating. I’m gonna wait a little and try again.

          34. SP, Good point about how embarrassing it would be if you did gift a card to someone and they couldn’t use it!

            I just wrote to you and FYC that I still cannot use it even having waited 24 hours and registered the card online. I called Visa, they could see the transaction attempts, and they told me the problem was at HG’s end, not with PayPal. I am not sure what he has to do but probably set up his PP to receive some sort of gift card that it doesn’t already receive? Let’s wait to see what HG says about it but I have tried a dozen times now on two different browsers and PP will not process it. I even wrote HG a little note, which is now lost to the back of the beyond…

          35. There’s no issue at my end. I’ve had no notification of any issue and never receive any such issue with all purchasers.

          36. HG, I know but SP is having problems too. FYC gave us some further information – to use a card that you don’t have to register. I’ll try that but will have to buy a new card. I’ll give this one to someone for Christmas! I have two picky 20-somethings. The card will be appreciated.

          37. SP has identified it’s the card. Nobody else had had any issues, but that’s because they use the process in a conventional manner. It works and there’s no issue.