I like it when you are lonely. That is my favourite place for you. When we first meet if you make mention of feeling lonely, or send a self-pitying tweet decrying your loneliness then I am straight on to you. You may as well have taken a knife to your chest, slit it open and shouted, “Come and get me.” Those in a state of loneliness are massively susceptible to my overtures when I decide to engulf you in my bombardment of flattery and zealous appreciation. Those who have tired of their single status and wallowing in solitary confinement seize on this interest of mine. The red flags may be fluttering but you never see them or if you do, you think “how pretty”.

I may make you feel wanted and special but all I am doing is moving you. I am transporting you from loneliness in the real world to isolated splendour in my false reality. Once I have positioned you there I shall busy myself cutting you off from family, friends and acquaintances. You will readily go along with my fabricated denigrations of people you once held dear and who you saw regularly. You want more of the sugar that I am pouring on you. To do that you need to spend more time with me and thus less with anyone else. It is hardly a sacrifice though is it? Any dissenting voices are marginalised by cleverly constructed smear campaigns against these people (watch out – that campaign will be used against you in the not too distant future). You are an eager co-conspirator happy to discard these people (how can you be so callous?) with the repeated promise and reward of more of my intoxicating attention.

Once all those ties have been cut you are mine. You are dependent on me for everything. You have nobody to turn to and thus your focus will always be on me. As you try harder to please me, the realisation of your isolation becomes all the more apparent. You can feel the tendrils of loneliness wrapping around you once again. I know you will feel this and I know you will do all the more to cling onto me, your life raft, your beacon of hope in the wilderness. Anything to avoid being left alone. I am afraid it is too late. Your isolation was sealed the moment you listened to me. You are so alone nobody can hear you scream.

250 thoughts on “Lonely

  1. Whitney says:

    Dear HG 🙌💙
    If I hug a man, and he touches the side of my face, is that a red flag? It seems loving and I like it but no one has done it before.
    I’m asking because I’m a Narc magnet.
    When I was sitting with the one who touches my face, the Somatic who chokes me came over and sat in between with his back blocking the other man. It was aggressive
    The one who touches my face also kisses my cheek and pulls me up from the ground to hug me. He kissed goodbye to me in the air when I was standing with the Somatic.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      The act of somebody touching your face when you hung that person is not a red flag in itself. You evidently know the individual well enough to hug this person and therefore the reciprocation of your affection by touching your face is entirely appropriate.

      Of course, a narcissist might touch your face when you hug the narcissist, but that act in itself is not an indicator of the person being a narcissist. I am a narcissistic psychopath and I eat cheese, but that act does not determine that I am a narcissistic psychopath.

      1. Desirée says:

        Relieved to read that eating cheese does not, in fact, make somebody a narcissistic psychopath. I do not trust the lactose intolerant.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Ha ha.

  2. WhoCares says:

    SMH (and anyone else attempting to use a gift credit card),

    “I don’t understand the discrepancy or know what I am supposed to put into the name and address lines, since the card is not registered that way.”

    You do not have to register your card to use it; just verify wherever you purchase it that it is ‘activated’ and keep the receipt (just in case). I don’t usually put my actual name but instead, I put “Gift recipient” (since that IS the name of the card) or W.C. – whatever I’m feeling like at the moment (I also use an old business address of mine since nothing is physically being “shipped” or use a Post Office address like FYC suggested). Often times you will be told it could take up to 24hrs to activate, but I have never had to wait that long; I have always been able to use them immediately.

    1. SMH says:

      Hi WC, I tried with several different names and addresses. I did not, however, use any real address I have ever had but maybe I should try it with a real random address rather than making one up, and put gift recipient as the name, as you suggest. I’ll give it a try!

      1. WhoCares says:


        Hope it solves your issue!

        1. SMH says:

          WhoCares, If it works you are a genius for solving the problem! I will try later and let you know.

  3. Lorelei says:

    It’s something Renarde—although I do think they (normals) are targeted some (even often at times when in the right hunting grounds such as drinking in a bar) but they just brush off the advances more—their “not right” alarm is more advanced. If I sense a not right alert it feels comfortable even though I do get the alarm—I just push mute, often repeatedly. It’s re-learning everything I’ve ever done and my entire system of relating to people. Mostly I am turning it into a win but I’m also faltering in some areas—I’m still attracted to asshole men basically but I’m making progress writing off females I would typically interact with that are likely narcissists. I wish this were an overnight thing or fix.

    1. Bibi says:

      A normal coworker of mine had this happen to him. He has empathic traits but some narc ‘puffiness’ emerges every so often. He had a narcissist chick messing with him wherein he showed me the exchanges and I informed him of what she was (gave HG’s site of course) and then he said I was able to predict everything she did, etc. (It wasn’t hard–she was a Mid Ranger so I told him that when he breaks up with her she is going to cry, which she did, following all her manipulation.)

      He was able to brush it off fairly easily and move on. I also wonder if it has something to do with men having overall better boundaries than women. I can recall when narcs pursued me and in my head thinking, ‘I don’t want him to think I am a bitch if I don’t react positively to his advances.’ I don’t think men have this problem as much.

      Certain narcissists have hurt me more than others, so not all narcs are created equal, in that respect. I find Lessers and Lower Mid Rangers easier to brush off than the Middle and Upper Mid Ranger.

      1. Lorelei says:

        Excellent point Bibi. (Re, different narcissists with differing abilities to create opportunities for us to “brush it off”)
        Not too many of us care if we tick off a lesser, in fact, they are amusing to observe. An upper mid ranger would have more capacity to generate a “slap” non-verbally at a dinner party for maybe a faux pas than even a middle lesser/mid who may well end up there—but the social stamina of an upper mid creates a different air. I’m thinking of my first husbands father. I highly suspect he was the root of many evils in that family and he fits this particular profile. Say, someone made a cultural faux pas by means of reference. A friend of mine while we were just traveling made a slight cultural error that I didn’t want to correct but she did make it several times. It drove me a little batty but I kept my mouth shut of course as wasn’t a big deal and she would have felt bad. She is an educated woman but my ex’s dad would have non-verbally roasted her— with her not knowing why. It would have stung. A lesser of lower middle—who really cares. **Sense of superiority/control/belittling, etc.

        1. Bibi says:


          Interesting about your friend. I actually have no problem correcting people (LOL) but I also don’t mind it if someone tells me I am mistaken and wrong about something (granted as long as it is tactful and not done in a ‘you’re an idiot!’ kind of way, which will only invite defensiveness). Anyone can misspeak or have a brain fart.

          I have had to work on this as I came to learn that not everyone wants to be corrected and I know for me, I appreciate when someone informs me I am wrong on a fact, etc. But not everyone feels this way.

          I’ll give an example many years ago with a friend of mine from school. I’ll use my rather than hers, but let’s say her name was Bibi

          She informed me she met a grandmother of a boyfriend who kept calling her Barbara the entire time rather than Bibi. I asked why the grandmother did this. ‘I was not about to correct her!’ She said.

          I found this strange.

          And here is an example of me. This friend showed me her ID card and said, ‘God this is a terrible picture of me,’ wherein I responded, ‘Yea it’s not the best.’

          Then I later heard that she was complaining about me to others, ‘I can’t believe she said my photo was bad!’

          WTF? I’m just confirming what she said. I’m pretty honest. But my point was that who cares? It’s a school ID, not a wedding pic. Was she just wanting me to disagree with her?

          I’m not close with this friend anymore, because while she was not a narcissist, her passive-aggression like this got on my nerves and I just withdrew over time.

          1. Lorelei says:

            I know Bibi.. I thought of how to be tactful but it wasn’t worth the devaluation! She could easily have scolded me for waking up in a long sleeve shirt (tropical destination) and underwear hungover one morning too. (I’m a pajama snob when sober)

  4. Dianne Duncan says:

    Spent 6 years with him with one break up initiated by him that lasted 7 months. He begged to come back, agreeing to marriage. Lovebombed me, not knowing he was a Narc. Moved in together but never got the ring: never told me my budget, how could I pick a ring? Looked at rings once, then never again. I should have insisted. He became withdrawn, blamed work. Then started withholding sex. In his 60’s, had problems before so I didn’t want to embarrass him. Finally, he sent me on a spa vacation because I was stressed. When he picked me up at the airport, then took me to dinner, all seemed normal. When we got to the house I saw he moved out while I was away. We spoke every day. No argument.
    He said “ We need to talk”. I just laughed. About what? Why did he do this? “I thought it would be easier”. Yeah, for him. He paid the rent until I could pack and move out. “Take your time” Like that made him the good guy. I moved 1600 miles away and never said goodbye. Let the landlord tell him I left. 3 months since he moved out. One month for me. Contacted me once “You left your sewing machine, should I send it? He also owed me $5,O00 dollars. That was a month ago. No check, no sewing machine. Oh, and he said “ I never cheated on you and I never lied” I n his warped pathetic mind perhaps. Never thought he was a Narc until he pulled this stunt. Told him it was cold, calculated,cowardly and cruel. His answer : “Beat me up if it makes you feel better”. Wow. Just wow. Waiting for the hoover. Can believe I let him steal 6 years of my life. I’m 58. I’m done with ‘love’. Better to be alone

  5. Chihuahuamum says:

    Narcs count on you being lonely, unfullfilled, voids,low self esteem,codependant tendencies….the list goes on and on. They want there to be a need or weakness they can fill in.
    My narc zoned in on this from the get go.
    My narc mother on the other hand resented the fact i didnt rely on her but little did she know i did emotionally. I wasnt willing to be under her thumb to gain her approval and love and that is why im the black sheep and as painful as its been i can say im proud that i am! I could never be her golden child itd mean selling my soul and being owned. I could never be her “yes mum” thatd disgust me.

  6. Pati says:

    They like it when we feel this way. They also like it when we argue and dont get along with other family members because it makes them feel powerful. Although these family members have picked up on these kinds of behaviors. You can only hide it for so long.
    Also my adults kids are used as lieutenants. My husband was texting my daughter all fricken night to see what was going on. This is not a way of living. All about control !

  7. SMH says:

    This is sad. I think it’s what MRN must have done to IPPS, which is why she is always alone (though I know that alone doesn’t mean lonely). He couldn’t do it to me because I had a life outside his work hours, and I would tell him about it. I actually think he was the loneliest of all because he could not attach to anyone. He was kind of obsessed by the idea of ‘closeness’ yet never seemed able to achieve it.

    1. lisk says:

      SMH, Interesting you bring up “closeness.” Narcx ALWAYS talked about “intimacy,” but just couldn’t do intimacy. Of course, he blamed “our” inability to achieve a stable, intimate relationship on me only.

      1. SMH says:


        That is very interesting. It is probably more common than we think. Was Narcx a mid-ranger? MRN was (obv) and he was semi-aware of his limitations – shallow, lack of emotional complexity and emotions in general, flat affect, seeming like two different people, etc. If I collected everything he said about these issues and what I observed, it would paint a picture of a lonely man trapped by his own limitations – knowing what he should want and half wanting it but as you say, unable to achieve it. Sex was the only area where he seemed emotionally normal, but it also scared him. That is a reason to feel sorry but it does not excuse the deliberate manipulations.

        MRN did not blame me, thankfully. And I did not blame him. (I also did not know what the problem was at the time.) But he did once blame IPPS for being ‘cold’ and they seemed to live parallel lives. I (IPSS) simply told him that he was unhappy but I was not the cause, so I could not make him happy.

  8. NotMe! says:

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    1. michellegedwards says:

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    2. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

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    3. Violetta says:

      Can I borrow this? This is BRILLIANT!

  9. lisk says:

    He moved me alright—out of state twice, to two new cities that I could really only explore with him, when he wasn’t working.

    Looking back, there was so much opportunity to explore and enjoy. Given all the gaslighting and word salads and silent treatments during those periods, it’s clear he didn’t really want to explore very far. We went out to dinner a lot, but didn’t do much discovery.

    Most probably he did not want to be seen with a woman so that he could successfully troll the towns for other sources of fuel. I remember wanting to try certain new restaurants and he would poo-poo them, saying his colleagues told him they served bad food. Those establishments were probably saved for an IPSS or a DLS.

    All in all, I was alone and miserable and disconnected from healthy human contact. The different therapists I sought to help me figure out my Narcx-related issues, unbeknownst to me at the time, were of no use until after the last disengagement when my new therapist figured him out by our third session. Woot!

  10. DoForLuv says:

    When a narcissist tells you to talk to other “boys”
    not even men 😂 . On a dating app . But tells you he Loves you say nothing but positive things just a few negative ones and says I take you just the way you are . Tells you many women chase him because he looks so good 🤣 but I talk to you because I Like you and respect you , you are High value so Beautiful even with you BPD.Does some hot and cold after that long voiceclip . I vanish few hours he blocks me ,after 1 Day chase he says you are better off without me exploded cussing How crazy I Made him and he is Busy going Back to his ex talks about that app again and he likes me I just live to far away I wish him luck he blocks account comes back in 2 Min , says it was all a lie and I just stress him out and needs some
    space Will add me again on monday . Monday came he told me he doesn’t want to stay in contact anymore Didn’t delete me . I annoyed him he blocked me again but I asked him to do it . I made A account on the dating app and the first person I is him he vanished .Now a lot of his location try to “Get me” ..

    When a narcissists do something like that are They behind the profiles ? Testing you or Busy new IPPS

    He’s a Somatic lesser or lesser midrange no IPPS . Lives alone . Many online IPSS. I was IPSs Candidate .

    1. HG Tudor says:

      I recommend you organise a consultation so I can provide you with a blow by blow account of what has been happening in the interaction that you describe.

      1. DoForLuv says:

        Sounds good ! . I can see the manipulation in it a littlebit now! . I’ll consult with you .

  11. Liza says:

    he was determined to make me believe that i am lonely, i was not. i never had many friends but i was happy like that, i trully love to be alone, but he would always say things like “i was looking at you, and you seemed so lonely” or ” i’m the only one who really gets you” and since he played so good the male version of liza, i eventualy believed him and ended up feeling lonely. but i’v returned to be me once againe ( i’m not sure if it is good news).

    1. Kim e says:

      Liza. I said to my friends first time I saw “ he looks sk lonely”. Little did I know……lol

      1. Liza says:

        HaHa let’s be positive, you had a big surprise.

    2. lisk says:

      Liza, if you are back to you, then it IS good news.

      1. Liza says:

        thank you you are verry sweet, but i’m not sure that my room would share your opinion.

  12. Pingback: Lonely ⋆ NarcTopia
  13. Maria says:

    Lonely. what a triggering word for me ATM.

    When my narc first came on to me, after 15 years of long-distance friendship (the first 5 we worked together with him in an indirect supervisory role to me) he said to me, “Back then I always sensed a sadness in you that drew me in.”

    It scared me that, that would be a draw for him but he was correct, things were sad back then and I told myself he was just feeling protective, and brushed it off.

    But, over the previous years of friendship I had built a great, very fulfilling life for myself – I was so happy, proud and STRONG and finally felt “worthy” of him and opened up. Now that I’ve lost it all, I truly am sad, embarrassed and lonely again and I feel I’m growing too old to make it out again. I’m gutted. Did he do this on purpose?

    1. lisk says:

      You’re never too old to rebuild, Maria.

      In fact, “I feel I’m growing too old to make it out again” could very well be huge draw to a Narc, so you must rebuild and reinforce yourself against the possibility of a future infiltration!

      1. Maria says:

        Thank you Lisk… i do hope you’re right. I have my good days but still far too many bad days too. Definitely don’t want to attract any more narcs.

    2. K says:

      No, he didn’t do it on purpose; it was instinct. You may find these articles helpful.


      1. Maria says:

        Thanks, K! Long day but I will read these tomorrow as soon as I can. Knowledge is power ☺

        1. K says:

          My pleasure Maria!
          You are right; knowledge is power.

          Take your time and enjoy the reading. Just remember, it’s all about the fuel. I don’t want to overwhelm you, however, you may find this article helpful, as well.


          1. Lorelei says:

            K—any discussions on instinctive planning that you recall?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            No there have not been.

          3. Alexissmith2016 says:

            Oooh another great question Lorelei!

            HG please, please, please can we have article on instinctive planning.

            I’ll behave myself forever…

          4. HG Tudor says:

            It is a detailed matter to explain and is explained in consultation to avoid the risk of misunderstanding and confusion.

          5. MB says:

            Besides Alexis…we both know you can’t behave yourself forever! Haha

    3. NotMe! says:

      Hi Maria,
      You’re never too old to get your strength back, how long have you been out? I understand the feelings of embarrassment, that is uppermost for me at the moment too. He did it because he could, because he is untroubled by empathy, conscience or remorse. Have you started going out again?

      1. Maria says:

        Thank you for saying that @NotMe and for asking. My situation is very precarious and complicated atm… and sort of like a Dicken’s story early on… so I can’t make new friends or forge any new relationships because of the situation I’m in right now.

        I am currently in an abusive marriage, with children. My husband is not my narc… but he’s bipolar and really scares me sometimes. I basically just try to stay out of his way when he comes home, unless he is abusive towards our kids, then I can’t help but start a fight so that he focuses his anger on me.

        I had a home business, started it with $3 left in my paypal account, originally to help hubby pay the bills, but over the next 4 years, after reinvesting every penny I made and sacrificing time outside with the kids, I made 40k from home in 2016…and my husband had become so abusive by then that I shifted plans and started to hide money and had a plan to leave… then my narc friend came onto me, after years of being a complete gentleman… told me he and his wife were divorcing… he had her removed from the house (his brother-in-law is the mayor of his city, his brother is the chief of police and his other brother is a US Senator) he was “suicidal”, I was the only thing that made him happy, all he wanted was “my love”, we’d “find a way” (I moved 700 miles away 8 years ago) etc. All lies. I got so wrapped up in this love and my concern for his wellbeing that I just let my business fail… bad reviews (formally all 5 star) banned from Ebay and Etsy now… so many roads permanently closed, but my marriage is more abusive than ever now and I’ve got to rebuild and save alone now and find new paths.

        I would be making over 100k this year, from home, if he had never come and upended my life with lies. He watched my children grow up from afar… thousands of hrs of conversation between us about both our families… who cares about me, how could he do this to them??

        I have to keep putting one foot in front of the other for my kids and I’m a strong woman but this has rocked my world more than anything ever has and I’m a woman who was orphaned twice as a child, lived in foster homes, was forced to work as a call girl for a bit to survive when I was younger… so that’s really saying something. I always stayed positive before. It’s really hard to now.

        1. WhoCares says:


          You are a strong woman; one can just tell from your story. And resourceful and determined….given the way that you developed your own business in the family situation you described. I’m sorry that it all got derailed by your long distance narc friend whom you met.

          I have to ask bluntly, after reading your story – have you ever considered doing a narc detector on your abusive husband?

          1. Renarde says:


            I wholeheartedly concur with all of your post but especially the last paragraph.


            You might be very shocked indeed by how many Middle rangers hide their NPD under a differential diagnosis. Victim runs very strong in the Middle School. That’s why we hate them all so much and tend to want to tip them over balconies, so pathetic as they are.

            They whine, they plead they moan. And they hide! So, so many times I hear these refrains;

            ‘He’s sulking’. No he’s giving you a PST/AST depending on locations.

            ‘He wont return my calls.’ But then he does. Yup, a Middle who doesn’t know his own fucking mind and doling out his misplaced hoovers.

            ‘But he has ASD, BPD or another (insert your own) cluster B personality type.’ I’m sure he does in his own little pea brain. Also expect Bipolar entering in here, all tangentially like.

            All of these groups are people who have a serious mental health complaint. By allowing these viper’s to coil in our midst, they detract from the true sufferers who are largely gentle and utterly harmless. NPD people always shout and scream the loudest about their so-called mental health ‘issue’ and more importantly use it as an excuse for their own bad behaviours.

            Now it is possible that your husband could be a member of both the ASD and NPD camps. Anything is possible but it’s probably highly unlikely. Just another manipulation to tug on your poor heartstrings.

            It doesn’t seem like it now but you will heal. What you have done before you can easily, very easily do again. And very probably with your increased wisdom, much more energetically efficiently too.

            There is no such word as ‘can’t’

            Do organise a consult. I think you will find it worthwhile. If you cannot afford it, apply to the Angel Assistance Fund.

            All the best.

          2. HG Tudor says:


    4. Bibi says:

      Maria, I echo what others say. For me, it took rebuilding from within and trying to find what I felt was missing. Why did I think that this one lone person could fill it for me? In my case, I was so in need of approval, attention and validation and he gave all that to me. My narc was not romantic but more intellectual/creative and for me, that is more personal and intimate than…penetration.

      I have done a lot of self work in rebuilding my ego. I learned more about my personality, more about narcs through HG and worked on my own creative pursuits, read, wrote, watched good films and even lifted weights to build a good physical stamina. I can lift an 18 lb kettlebell over my head repeatedly and it isn’t hard. I never could do that in my life before. At 43 I could kick my 23 yr old ass.

      I remember envying myself before I knew this narc that messed with my mind so much. Now I know I am stronger than I was even before knowing him–emotionally, intellectually and physically, and I even have come to appreciate even more those genuine empaths in my life.

      But all this is great. Tomorrow is Monday though and I hate Mondays. Let’s see how I feel then. Hell, if I could do it, so can you. This blog is such a tremendous support. And HG is here to guide and offer his advice. For that I am forever thankful. I would not be as advanced as I am were it not for your work, HG. Thank you.

      1. Bibi says:

        Oh and just needed to clarify. Ahem, those KB lifts are single handed snatches. Done quickly. 😀

        1. Renarde says:

          I can’t get over the word ‘snatch’.

          Sorry [snurk]

          1. Bibi says:

            I did the same when I heard that word. Really? That’s what a snatch is? LOL

          2. Renarde says:


            That’s hilarious! Did you not know that?

          3. Lorelei says:

            Snatch is a word I haven’t heard in a long time!

      2. HG Tudor says:

        You are welcome.

      3. Violetta says:

        Tell me why
        you don’t like Mondays

        1. Renarde says:

          [Ruthlessly appropriating a Russel Brand gag now. It did make me chortle though}

          I’ll tell you why, Mr Bob God that I don’t like Monday’s. They suck. However, I can see you’ve made a great fortune. Dining out on one song like, forever?

          Did you not write anything else?

          P.S Where did the millions go?

        2. Bibi says:

          I don’t like Mondays because they feel like 5 days of drudgery ahead. Ironically I have a coworker who loves Mondays but hates Wednesdays. My mood feels better by Wednesday. But today is Monday and I actually feel OK.

          My mood has been better since the weather has gotten colder. I love fall. Where I live, it gets so hot in the summer, esp. in Aug that you can’t go out and do things like hike, run, etc. So I end up suffering from that seasonal depression that most get, but I get it in the summer.

      4. Liza says:

        you beleived he could because narcissists tend to have the Steve Jobes effect, they create a need in you even if you didn’t have it in the first place, when you are convinced that , yes, you need that, they tell you that you are lucky because they have the solution to your problem, you are then verry happy and eager to buy your solution.
        then they start coming up with updates and new versions without consulting you, and when you can no more afford their material your are left with a need you can’t cater to.
        congratulations for your acheivements in sports, it is verry impressive, i’v always thought that you needed muscles to have muscles, you proved that i’m just lazy.

        1. Renarde says:

          That is so true on the ‘Jobs’ effect. Good ‘job’ on spotting it.

          1. Liza says:

            i’m a Bill Gates fangirl and a PC worshiper, so linking apple to evry problem i can finde is my favorit sport.

          2. Renarde says:


            I admire the Apple aesthetic and locked down OS but I’m just a poor little girl.

            Even then I get antsy about all the back doors Gates left in the system.

          3. Liza says:

            i don’t like apple mainly because of their culte approche, and rigid style, PCs are more flexible.
            if by backdoors you mean security issues, actually it is not that aplle’s security is exeptionaly good (don’t get me wrong, it is of a hight quality) but apple has the advantage of not being targeted, most malwares target windows systems because it is the most used OS.
            but if you work under linux, you can have the flexibility of a PC, and a good security system you don’t even need an anti-virus softwear since here again you have the advantage of not being targeted.

          4. Renarde says:


            I know full well about Linux and its various Distros. I prefer Mint.

          5. lisk says:

            And that, Liza, is exactly what we all are here to obtain, isn’t it?

            “ . . . the advantage of not being targeted.”

          6. Liza says:

            Mint is verry elegant indeed, but i prefer Fedora, i like the uptade rate and the fact that Red hat is now part of IBM is a good back up.

          7. Liza says:

            i’m afraid that the not being targeted part is not dependent on us, we just need a verry good anti-virus.

          8. Renarde says:


            Funny you should say that. I have written the bones of a workshop on healing after NPD. One part is NPD as virus. The importance of NC to stop being reinfected.

        2. Bibi says:

          Interesting you mention Jobs, as I recently watched that HBO doc. on sociopath Elizabeth Holmes. She had a Jobs obsession and would mimic him down to the black turtlenecks. She managed to con people out of millions of dollars simply b/c she was so persuasive and they just believed her, despite her ‘innovation’ being a piece of crap that would not work.

          1. Liza says:

            ah yes, i heard about it, it is frightening to observe just how effective good communication skills can be.

          2. NarcAngel says:

            I watched that doc. on Elizabeth Holmes. As close to a robot with real skin as you can get. Creepy AF, but of course snagged a guy that is heir to a hotel fortune. Last I read, they were reported to be married and she is to stand trial in 2020.

          3. Renarde says:

            Thanks for the prompt guys! Intresting notion on Holmes!

            A sucker born every minute.

          4. Bibi says:


            Yup. She could not be more cliche a sociopath. I also read the book Bad Blood (easy read) and that goes into even more dirt on her and her company. She would triangulate 2 groups of engineers and tell them that the one who could figure something out faster gets to keep their jobs.

            A number of the employees were on visas dependent on employment. Everyone was miserable and stressed. It reminded me a lot of Jonestown. And here she was giving talks and claiming she was going to ‘change the world’ (grandiose platitudes) with nothing specific to show for it. I am looking forward to the trial, as she deserves jail for what she did. She is disgusting.

          5. Violetta says:

            Jobs may have had thoroughly narcy qualities, but there was substance behind it. When they Brookefrom ght him back to introduce the iPhone, you could see genuine passion for the technology. Look for it on YT. He knew this was a breakthrough product.

            He was right, of course. It’s amazing to think how recently people had to look it up a restaurant in the phone book, call for reservations, get a map for directions, etc. Now you can do all of that in the car, and even decide if place A has too long a wait list, let’s go to place B, wait, where is that? Let’s call and see if they have any tables. No, it would take longer to drive there than so at Place A, etc.

            Holmes copied the style, but not the substance.

          6. HG Tudor says:

            Jobs was one of ours. He did a number on Wozniak when they were both with Atari and that’s just at the start.

          7. MB says:

            I keep meaning to order his (Jobs) daughter’s book. Have you read it, HG?

          8. HG Tudor says:

            No, I haven’t MB.

          9. Violetta says:

            Yes, HG, he was one of you, but there was substantial knowledge and ability behind it–as, obviously, there is with you.

            Holmes had sod-all behind the facade. She may be one of those con artists who’d rather a) trick people into buying a worthless product or terrify her employees into working, than b) build a successful empire based on repeat business for a great product and devoted employees who are proud to contribute to an awesome company. She’d prefer that even if it meant less money, whistle-blowers seeking vengeance, and the whole thing blowing up in her face–as it did.

          10. Bibi says:

            A comment about Jobs: he was a good salesman and businessman but had he never lived there would still be Smart Phones and other crap like it. He just made his i-phone ‘cool’.

            Agree that he knew his stuff (though he never made it himself but rather his engineers and code workers did) but he wasn’t a fraud like Holmes. He was a narcissist and a horrible person but he didn’t give people poor test results that could lead to incorrect medical treatment and death.

    5. FYC says:

      Maria, You were born worthy, are worthy, and ever will be worthy. No one else determines your worth. You are a treasure. Embrace your inherent value and do not seek your value in others or through giving. The same woman that took $3 and turned it into $40k is within you still. You have survived many blows and you will survive this too. But to avoid more Ns, you will be best served by choosing you and your needs and those of your children over others’ needs. Focus on you. Think of it like this: You are a vessel, if you do not fill your own vessel, what do you have to give? Stop giving anyone the opportunity to drain you. It is time to honor yourself, love yourself and refill your vessel. For the future, keep in mind a kind and healthy person will seek to add to your life, thus your vessel over flows, they do not seek to drain it.

      1. EmP says:

        FYC, out of curiosity and if you don’t mind, what school/cadre of empath are you?

        1. FYC says:

          Hi EmP, I have not had the empath detector consult yet. If I were to guess, and I say this not in an aspirational way, I would say I most closely align with super, magnet. I have a strong sense of self, good self esteem, my emotional empathy runs very deep, but I also have narcissistic qualities. I’m fairly certain about the magnet cadre as this describes me IRL to a tee.

          1. EmP says:

            FYC, thanks for your reply. I strongly recommend you have your Empath Detector consultation, when you are able to, of course. I am a big proponent of self-knowledge. It’s such a great gift to give to oneself! (I remember I had my school/cadres completely wrong).

            I am interested because you really seem to take people’s suffering AT HEART. Obviously the vast majority of readers are empaths and therefore wanting to help others, heal, etc. but in your case it really stands out (see your appeal for the Angel Assistance fund – it was you, wasn’t it?). I find this very ‘edifying’ (as HG would say) – and I might be wrong but I smell the scent of the Saviour cadre. You could be both Saviour and Magnet (I am a hybrid of four cadres for example).

          2. Lorelei says:

            Emp—I really don’t know what all these sub-divisions are. Is there an article? I had this done but don’t really understand anything aside from being a mixture and not a narcissist. The trait characteristics I’m not clear on. It’s not a big deal, it’s irrefutable that I’m a magnet for this issue and also find the attractions come from me just as much.

          3. EmP says:

            Hi Lorelei, there are a few articles dealing with the different cadres of empaths: saviour, magnet, etc. if you want to know more in depth.

          4. Lorelei says:

            I’ll look up the words—it basically summarizes one thing—having a proclivity for idiocy! We do some stupid things. At least if we were vampires we would have no accountability. I’m getting messages from a work person—these are hoovers. I feel bad ignoring them and have to remember he is a narcissist but my first inclination is to feel bad for being rude. Then I have to laugh because his sexual prowess is reputed to be lacking and he’s so dumb he’s unaware his “CV” is well discussed! It is really interesting to me why this stuff doesn’t seem to plague normals and how we have what we have that triggers this sort of “stuff.”

          5. Renarde says:


            I’ve often thought on why norms dont see it.

            I’m rapidly firming the opinion they have a ‘filter’.

          6. FYC says:

            Thanks for your feedback, EmP. It is always interesting to see things from someone else’s perspective. When I take it I will let you know the results. I probably have a slice of savior, but magnet is far more predominate on a daily basis in real life. Saving others does not drive me, but I speak out or take action as I deem necessary or warranted. I would say I am equally driven by heart and logic; I have an abundance of both.

            I made the appeal for the Angels because it surprises me that such a fund would not receive more support from the greater body *empathetic* blog followers, especially with a $1 drive. I wanted to address some barriers to giving, and to light a fire for AAF support. I am grateful for what I have learned here and I believe HG has the most accurate theoretical framework on narcissism. No one else offers what HG does. The knowledge he imparts changes lives. How could anyone here not have the heart, or four quarters to support that?

          7. SMH says:

            FYC, I would support it but I do not know how to do that without HG knowing who I am, and I do not want that to happen unless I know who he is. MRN knew who I was but I did not know who he was for the longest time. Not going through that sort of narc entanglement again. I therefore will not do anything on HG’s site that requires a credit card. I have never had a consultation in part for that reason. I have not paid for extra reading material, etc (Amazon is different of course). If someone (you?) can explain to me how I can make a donation without HG knowing who I am, I will do it. I see people talking about visa gift cards, for instance, but I have no idea what those are.

          8. HG Tudor says:

            I’ve no interest in who you are. Use a gift card, NA will explain how to do it.

          9. SMH says:

            I know you have no interest, HG, but I am uncomfortable with it. It’s about me and my experiences, not about you. More generally, this might be an overlooked issue for a lot of people. I don’t know.

          10. SMH says:

            HG, If you had an anonymous P.O. box or something like that, I would happily send you cash! No return address. Easy.

          11. HG Tudor says:

            I would not accept cash.

          12. SMH says:

            That would surely get you in trouble, HG. They’d think you were dealing! I could always leave it under a rock in Hyde Park and tell you where it is (jk). No worries. I have gotten lots of good instructions from the empaths on here and now know how to do it. Going to buy that gift card today and make a donation to Angels.

          13. HG Tudor says:

            Jolly good. HG approves.

          14. FYC says:

            Hi SMH, I had the same issue as I am a very private person. I do not think HG would be inappropriate toward anyone of his readers/customers; he is too self aware and intelligent and professional, and has invested too much in his legacy. Regardless, many may prefer to remain anonymous as does HG.

            To accomplish anonymity while giving, buy a VISA gift card (available at most grocery or convenience stores). You can anonymously make a donation of any amount, up to the entire purchase price of the card directly at the checkout. You can also pay for a consult the same way. DO NOT select a reloadable VISA as this is registered on a website with your full identity information and your name is verified and shared in the transaction. Create a free anonymous email account for email consults.

            If anyone is concerned their N may inappropriately access their anonymous email, choose a separate, ultra secure email, such as protonmail.com, memorize the password and do not save it in your keychain, and password protect your device. If questioned by your N, say you read an article that password protection is recommended (there are many such security articles re: devices).

            If you want to book an audio consult, and prefer not to use Skype audio for any reason, you can buy a burner phone at a very low cost and purchase a pay-as-you-go minutes. Neither requires personal information to set up, simply purchase with cash. If this does not appeal to you, you can borrow a phone that is not tied to you (a friend or business) or you can use a computer that is not tied to you.

            PayPal requires a name, and real address and phone, so if you desire a non identifiable PayPal, you will need to use modified information (screen name, mailing only address, burner phone number) or borrow that of a friend.

            Thank you for asking SMH. I am sure others may feel the same way you do.

          15. SMH says:

            Got it, FYC. Thank you very much for those instructions. One final question, can one use a Visa gift card via Pay Pal without using PP? PP lets you pay for things with credit cards now without having a PP account. Would it be the same with a Visa gift card? That is, you don’t have to log into PP at all – just enter the gift card number? I don’t want to purchase a gift card only to discover when I get to PP that I have to connect it to myself. I do have a fake email and even a fake name, but not a fake address etc. I once registered on Amazon with my fake name and email (can’t remember why – I think because someone gave me an Amazon branded tablet and I didn’t want Amazon to know everything about me – I just put 00000 where the credit card number should be and voila, I had a fake Amazon account!).

            HG, you know you taught us well – boundaries, know who you are dealing with, just say no, and all that. It is not that I do not trust you. I have no reason to trust you or not to trust you. It is just that I am thinking about consequences now and listening to that little voice inside that says ‘nope, not comfortable with this.’

          16. FYC says:

            You are welcome, SMH. From what I understand, it used to be easy to set up a fake PayPal account, but due to security issues, they changed what’s required in the last couple years. If you want an anonymous PayPal, use your screen name, your fake email, an address that is legit but undeliverable (such as the street address of a postal store in any city you choose–nothing will be sent there anyway) and a borrowed or burner phone number. They will seek to verify your account via text on the phone you provide. It is possible that the account could be closed given their policy against fake accounts, but even this would not affect the balance on your gift card that can be used anywhere. If this does not appeal to you, just use the gift card directly as you would any VISA without a PayPal account.

          17. SMH says:

            Thank you again, FYC for walking me through this. I think I’ll just bypass a PP account altogether. It’s too much to keep track of all the fake stuff. Today I was in a tech store and the salesman told me about a site called privacy.com which basically allows you to pay for things with single use virtual credit cards. Since you are a tech person, you might know about this or want to look into it further.

            Got the gift card and am excited to make a donation. It will be nice to do a good deed for someone else and also to not feel like I am freeloading here.

          18. FYC says:

            As noted elsewhere, that link goes to a porn site so he must have gotten it wrong. Tech really is not difficult, it just feels difficult or intimidating or maybe annoying. Since tech is not known for being user-privacy centric, you have to take matters into your own hands or be annoyed/effected by the consequences. Such is the state of the world we live in.

            Thank you again for going the extra mile to make a donation, SMH, it is most kind of you, and very appreciated by some deserving soul desperate to be freed from N abuse. You and everyone who donates is helping HG change lives for the better.

          19. SMH says:

            Hi FYC, You mean privacy.com? Maybe it is supposed to be private.com? I was on the site. It wasn’t a porn site. Seems like a legit business, though I did not look into it much. I also watched the salesman go on it and no porn came up (we were in the store in the open, and the business is run by very religious people, so it would have been quite dangerous for him had porn come up!)

          20. EmP says:

            I agree FYC – if you want the truth, you have to come to HG.

            And regarding my feedback to you, I love to witness people’s generosity and concern for others and I like to acknowledge that generosity. I know the person doesn’t need any acknowledgement, but still.
            There is so much that can and must be done to enlighten and to help. Personally, it’s the children (and stepchildren) of narcissists I am concerned with the most.

          21. FYC says:

            EmP, Thank you for your kindness. I agree and know too well, no one remains unscathed when raised by a N. Your good heart and generosity is very much appreciated.

          22. EmP says:

            Anytime FYC ❤️ and thank you!

          23. Supernova DE says:

            Buy a prepaid Visa credit card/gift card and use that. I even have a separate PayPal that is only used to pay HG when required and does not have my real address etc.

          24. SMH says:

            Thanks, Supernova DE. Never occurred to me to make a fake Pay Pal and I did not know what Visa gift cards were, but this route seems to be the consensus. Glad I asked!

          25. Bibi says:

            SMH, that is interesting you say that, as I am the opposite. I don’t mind if HG knows who I am (I have introduced myself privately via my real name). I don’t mind it because if getting a sense of his type of readers gives him insight into future articles, I am good with that.

            I don’t wish to know who HG is. Reason being is it would likely be more difficult for me to ‘share’ as when I see someone’s eyeballs–even if in just a photo, it becomes more personal I guess. Which is weird. I suppose it also minimizes the risk of any attachment forming in my head. It eliminates it, actually.

            What I DON’T want is ever the Mid Ranger knowing I come on here, because if he did, it would only be conformation in his mind that I am still ‘obsessed’ with him. Also, I don’t want others in my life sifting around and reading my personal thoughts/ vulnerabilities which I am fine sharing here with those who understand but it’s not for them to know.

          26. SMH says:

            Hi Bibi, I guess it has to do with our personal histories. I am pretty open in general (and I don’t think MRN could even follow these conversations, even if he knew about them!) but I have had several experiences now – not just with MRN – of fakers. I had to exert a lot of energy at the end of the FR with MRN (actually, months past the end of the FR), to get him to delete all of our correspondence because I used a real email and he used a fake one (as well as a fake name for the first few months that I knew him). Of course by then I knew who he was but the email thing always made me uncomfortable. I could have switched to a fake one but I didn’t know I had a reason to really and by then it was too late. I am also easy to find online – I can’t even hide my workplace or work email – so I am extra careful now. I did a lot of stupid things the past few years but not any longer! I don’t much care who HG is. It is more that if he gets to be anonymous, I want to maintain my anonymity too. It’s about balance. Now I know how to do that while making donations or purchases, thanks to the good empaths here!

          27. FYC says:

            SMH, You have reason to consider your information. Privacy is a privilege that must be claimed, it is not a given. I have no problem with HG, it is more about privacy in general. I am very aware of how data is stored, accessed, shared, analyzed and managed and how it can be misused or breached, so I protect my information. Even though I am private and take precautions, I have still had my data stolen, my identity stolen, and a stalker pursue me. It can be annoying to potentially dangerous. It’s wise to use your personal email and phone only for trusted sources. Use alternate emails for online purposes. If you want to protect your IP address, use a VPN. If anyone wants to know if their email/phone has been breached/pwned, visit here: https://haveibeenpwned.com It might be a drag to manage your data or change accounts to protect your identity, but it is better than the alternative. HG is wise to maintain his privacy and we would do well to do the same.

          28. SMH says:

            FYC, I’ve never been hacked or had my identity stolen, though I have been stalked (obv). Sorry all that has happened to you. I do take a lot of precautions with my real info and I have used that pawned site. I highly recommend it to everyone.

          29. FYC says:

            Thank you for your kindness, SMH, but no sympathy necessary. None of the attempts were successful as I make an effort to remain informed and I take prompt action. That said, anyone can be victimized, including me. It pays to be cognizant of the value of privacy and the actions one needs to take to eliminate the risks.

            By the way, I saw your comment regarding “privacy.com” and typed that into my browser and it immediately redirected to a porn site! So I just want to let others know not to investigate that link unaware.

            Privacy will never be a simple “go to X website so you can remain private without effort” (as evidenced by Lifelock’s various failures over the years). The reason being, such a site would be a very appealing target to hack. Real privacy is provided by multiple layers of security and these require your effort. It may not be prioritized as fun or easy or even interesting, but just like the lock on your front door, it it’s still worth the time, effort and money to purchase and install. Once purchased and in place, it works pretty effortlessly.

            That said, I think you made several valid points with regard to peoples perceptions and potential reticence to act.

          30. SMH says:

            Hi FYC, That’s weird about privacy.com because I am looking at it now and it looks completely normal to me. There are lots of app downloads and a long reddit discussion about it. Very millennial thing it seems. In any case, glad none of the hacking attempts were successful!

          31. FYC says:

            SMH, When I click on your link it works. When I type privacy.com in google it redirects to a porn site. Thank you for providing the live link. I usually avoid direct links to avoid any inadvertent malware that can be embedded. In this case, your link is the better way to go! Thank you again for your kindness!

          32. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I’m having trouble. PayPal doesn’t accept my new card. I also tried to pay by using NA’s method and it doesn’t accept it. I checked online to see if it had the correct funds and it does there’s nothing wrong with it. Is PayPal having a glitch at all?

          33. HG Tudor says:

            Not that I’ve observed.

          34. Sweetest Perfection says:

            It’s not them, there’s something going on with the card. I’ll try later again and if not call. BS!!

          35. SMH says:

            I believe FYC had problems too, so that’s three of us. I am thinking it might be a browser problem so I’ll try with a different one tomorrow.

          36. SMH says:

            SP, I’ll try again tomorrow once I am sure the card has been activated (I think it can take up to 24 hours). Maybe it’s the browser? I tried with Firefox but can switch to something else. I’ll let you know.

          37. Sweetest Perfection says:

            SMH, I found the same info about the 24 hrs after trying desperately once and again. It’s fucking frustrating. I’m gonna wait a little and try again.

          38. SMH says:

            SP, Good point about how embarrassing it would be if you did gift a card to someone and they couldn’t use it!

            I just wrote to you and FYC that I still cannot use it even having waited 24 hours and registered the card online. I called Visa, they could see the transaction attempts, and they told me the problem was at HG’s end, not with PayPal. I am not sure what he has to do but probably set up his PP to receive some sort of gift card that it doesn’t already receive? Let’s wait to see what HG says about it but I have tried a dozen times now on two different browsers and PP will not process it. I even wrote HG a little note, which is now lost to the back of the beyond…

          39. HG Tudor says:

            There’s no issue at my end. I’ve had no notification of any issue and never receive any such issue with all purchasers.

          40. HG Tudor says:

            I’d add that several other people have used gift cards without issue.

          41. SMH says:

            HG, I know but SP is having problems too. FYC gave us some further information – to use a card that you don’t have to register. I’ll try that but will have to buy a new card. I’ll give this one to someone for Christmas! I have two picky 20-somethings. The card will be appreciated.

          42. HG Tudor says:

            SP has identified it’s the card. Nobody else had had any issues, but that’s because they use the process in a conventional manner. It works and there’s no issue.

          43. SMH says:

            But SP also noted that she has done the same thing on many occasions and never had a problem before. It could be that PP has changed something too. We will see how her dinner experiment goes. If the card works in a brick and mortars place, we’ll know more…

          44. Sweetest Perfection says:

            SMH, any news? I tried mine again this morning and still nothing. I know it’s not been 24 hrs yet but I had the hope it would work, I have never had any problem with these cards before. This is pissing me off, as a friend said when talking this morning, imagine you bought it as a gift to someone, how embarrassing! I don’t even wanna think about it.

          45. SMH says:

            Hi FYC, Weird that it redirects you. Maybe something with your browser? In any case, if you figure out how the site works and it seems that it would work for what HG does here, do let us know. It might provide another way to pay anonymously. Like you, I am having trouble with PayPal. If it doesn’t work tomorrow, I might just send HG the card details and the registered zip code by email. Maybe he’ll be able to do it from his end.

          46. FYC says:

            SMH, I have not had any issues with PayPal. It sounds like you selected a reloadable VISA gift card or a Vanilla brand card since you were required to register the card. I do not use these. But since you registered, I do know that one of two things will happen, if Vanilla brand, it will take time to become available, if reloadable, they will send you a new card post registration (its all in the fine print on the packaging). I prefer the VISA gift cards that do not require any registration or information. You pay cash and you are good to go. You then you add the card to PayPal and funds are immediately available. All cash, no info, easy access. I once accidentally bought a reloadable card and wrote it off as a loss. That is why I mentioned in the beginning to not get a reloadable card. That said, I think this will work for you. I am fairly certain it’s not a browser issue, or a PayPal issue (unless your account was not verified, but this should happen when you create the account). Sorry you are having difficulties and thank you for making the effort.

          47. Sweetest Perfection says:

            FYC, how long does the fucking vanilla card take? I’ve never had this problem before but I have seen online that apparently it’s common, how do you know?

          48. FYC says:

            Hi SP, I never bought one because the clerk told me you have to register and then wait a day to use it. So I then went to a grocery store that has VISA brand gift cards that are all cash no registration.

            Also, it is none of my biz, but IMO, you come across as empathetic and intelligent.

            BTW, when did scientific/factual communication become narcissistic anyway? I must be a helluva narc then. But if I am, why the hell did I get stuck with all this massive empathy? And attachment? And Honesty? And generosity? And…

            I want a refund. Apparently, I *should* be *entitled* to it!

          49. SMH says:

            FYC and SP, Mine is a Vanilla card but it is NOT reloadable. Someone said to buy the one with the bow, so I did! It is registered and the balance is there but PayPal still will not take it. What a pain. I called Visa – they saw my attempted transaction and said the problem was with HG (the merchant) not with PayPal. HG – apparently it is on your end? I can use it for something else but that doesn’t resolve the how to donate anonymously problem. I don’t want to buy another card only to have that one not work either…

          50. HG Tudor says:

            I’ve had no notification of any issue There’s never any issue with other purchasers, so that’s incorrect.

          51. SMH says:

            HG, That’s what Visa told me and they looked at the whole attempted transaction. I don’t know what else to do. PP asks for a name, address, phone number even when you bypass PP itself, but when you register the card they don’t ask for that information (just a zip code) so I don’t understand the discrepancy or know what I am supposed to put into the name and address lines, since the card is not registered that way. I can use this card for something else and try to find one that I don’t have to register.

          52. HG Tudor says:

            Well congratulations as you’re in a class of one!

          53. SMH says:

            That’s the way it should be! Always has been. I am unique after all. A special snowflake.

          54. FYC says:

            SMH, Did you try putting in a bogus address & phone? Sometimes they just need these fields filled even though a gift card does not need address verification.

          55. SMH says:

            FYC, Yes, I did try. I registered it with a zip code and then added a bogus name and address on the PP page. No go.

          56. Sweetest Perfection says:

            SMH, it was me who told you the bow thing. I have used the same type of card in the past to pay for the narc detector, the empath detector, the matrix detector, the payment for Alastor and the other readings and the different audio consultations with HG, the donation on his birthday for the angels and the donation for the one dollar campaign, and never had any problem. This new card is the one who is giving me trouble and it’s not PayPal or HG, it’s the card. I’m sorry about it, it’s insane we both are going through the same.

          57. SMH says:

            It’s hysterical, SP, that we are both going through the same thing. Feeling guilty (a poor angel is waiting), stupid and annoyed all at once!

          58. Sweetest Perfection says:

            “Also, it is none of my biz, but IMO, you come across as empathetic and intelligent.” Thank you, FYC 🥰

          59. FYC says:

            Hi NA, I wrote my reply to SMH before I saw HG’s comment to you in his reply to SMH. Please do share your method.

          60. NarcAngel says:

            I’m late to the party. Glad to see you and SweetP have it well covered. There are many way to do it anonymously if one really wants to. I mean we see examples here all the time of how resourceful people are when they are spying on/dealing with their narc lol. This is child’s play.

          61. FYC says:

            Hi NA, Thank you for your reply. The only difference between us having alternate IDs and a N is the reason behind it. Well that, and it doesn’t feel “right” to us, while for the N it’s a natural as can be.

            I know it is not relevant here, but I am wondering how things are going with your sister? I hope all is going well for you.

          62. SMH says:

            FYC, That is very true. Narcs and empaths are both capable of fakery but our motivations and comfort levels differ.

          63. Desirée says:

            Although he does accept payment in form of Creed and Krug Champagne. And light blue socks from Hugo Boss with accents at the heel and toe. So still there’s lots to choose from!

          64. HG Tudor says:

            Ha ha, well remembered. Don’t forget the Deutz champagne.

          65. MB says:

            Maybe setting up the PO Box is a good idea after all, HG! For the acceptance of gifts? Desireé has started a list. Christmas will be here soon!

          66. HG Tudor says:

            I already have a gate keeper for such matters, MB.

          67. MB says:

            Of course. I wasn’t able to find the relevant details in the “contact us” section of the website!

          68. SMH says:

            Good because I might have to post the gift card to you if I cannot get it to work (will try again later today).

          69. Bibi says:


            So interesting you mention that, as mine also used a fake name the 1st 2 and a half years I knew him. He even had a separate email with the fake name that he used only for me. So I understand where you are coming from.

            The difference is that for me (and this is just why I feel this way) HG is not under the guise of ‘trying to be my friend’. If I encountered HG and he wanted to be pals and yet he never shared his face and was evasive with questions like the Mid Ranger was, ‘So, tell me again what does HG stand for…etc.’ And he refused to tell me, was evasive, I would be like oh hell no. Adios.

            But in a professional context, it doesn’t concern me.

            So that is very interesting. We sound like we have some similar situations but for me, BECAUSE I would know where I stand with HG (a professional consult) the alias vs. him knowing of me is not such an issue.

            I can’t believe how much I tolerated from that Mid Ranger. He felt it was in his ‘right’ to withhold large parts of himself, yet he still wanted to have a correspondence with me. He wanted to be in my life but did not want me in his.

            It’s funny to think of HG saying, ‘Let’s be pals…’

          70. SMH says:


            You mean you did not know his name for two and a half years?? Did you know him in person? (I ask because you mention emailing and correspondence.)

            Mine had a separate email for the fake name too. But he made a huge mistake the first time we met, and I knew he was lying from that day on. I asked where his kids went to school and he told me. Mine also attended that school and so did I in my youth. I had access to all the yearbooks. No kid in the yearbooks had the surname he gave me. I knew who he was not. I just did not know who he was.

            I think the third time I saw him I asked him for his name (again). He slipped up and gave me his real first name and I said ‘but you told me your name was X.’ I got the black eyes as he denied that he had given me the fake first name. He also told me he was going to a corporate event that evening. Unluckily for him, the names of everyone who attended were online within a week. I filtered out everyone with his first (real) name, plugged a few names into Google and his picture popped up, so then I had his surname. When I told him, I put his full name in the subject line so that when he responded with his fake email, I would have proof – worked a treat! He did apologize for that lie, actually (while keeping another whopper on the back burner). It did not put him off. I think he was impressed by my detective skills but he never wanted to know how I found out and I never forgave him for lying to me.

            And ditto about the withholding. He was allowed to ask me whatever he wanted and I would answer because I wasn’t hiding anything. But even when I knew a lot about him he was pathologically secretive (he called it being ‘private’ – I said no, you are secretive, there is a difference). In the end, I figured out it was mostly because his life was pretty humdrum. By being secretive he could seem more interesting than he was. Maybe that was the case with yours too?

            I have no reason to distrust HG but I have no reason to trust him either. I know he has better things to do than to stalk people on this site and I also know that it would ruin the site, so he wouldn’t do it. But you can’t be too careful these days!

          71. Bibi says:


            This comment thread is so long I hope I don’t lose you. Yes, mine was a 7 yr correspondence online. He was someone with a blog who was writing about my creative work and he wanted to strike up a rapport. This was 2007. We got on very well and not a day went by in 2+ yrs that we didn’t email or write. We exchanged addresses, sent gifts, and Skyped.

            2.5 yrs in I learn of his fake name that is a combo of his middle name and mother’s maiden, where later he still tried to say it was his name, even though no one called him that. Had the email using the fake name only with me.

            I thought this was strange but since everything else was good, I assumed this was just a one off.

            Then he would go on about how protective he was of his family, would not share a photo 3 yrs in, claiming I was ‘trying to push into his life too much.’

            Obsessive secrecy. He was furious with me for searching his sister on FB. From then on I was in constant devaluation.

            The continual problem was his lack of sharing and secrecy, claiming he ‘could not trust me.’ When asked why, he could not give an answer. He always made me feel like I was ‘demanding too much.’

            Many times I wanted to abort the mission, say fuck it, and go my own way, when I would call him on shit he would then whine and throw me a crumb, asking why I would ever want to abandon him.

            Never knew where I stood with him, constant mind fucks, till once day I come to find his Twitter page and slew of social media whoring where there are 100s of pics he shares with strangers, he blocked me on FB from day 1, hiding that he was gay from me–lots of male ass and scrotum and he Tweets about celeb gossip and the latest pair of shoes worn by Kesha.

            Why didn’t you tell me? ‘I’m not going to tell you for your convenience,’ he said. When you withhold so much and hide your life from me, it makes me feel unworthy, like a piece of shit. ‘Well that is your problem if you feel slighted,’ he’d say. ‘You need to take me as I am.’

            By the end he tried distancing himself, making it seem like all we ever were was casual acquaintances, someone you meet on Twitter or just some random FB person. No, that is not what it was.

            ‘I don’t think online friendships can ever be as real as those in real life,’ he said. Which is an opinion many have, but if he feels this, don’t fucking pursue me, and spend the 1st 2 yrs emailing me well wishes and telling me I am so important in his life and how much I have impacted him.

            His actions made no sense. Why pursue someone u don’t want to share anything with? What is the point? I had no clue till OMG, is this NPD? Mid Ranger. Bingo. And I think he was an emotional sadist. Zero conscience. But thinks he is the poor victim. No regards for my feelings. I kept wondering if I was in the wrong. Did I demand too much? How could I have been so wrong about him? Mid Ranger Mind fuck over and over.

          72. SMH says:


            That is a very strange story but I think you nailed it. He got a lot of fuel from you both during and after. It amazes me that people have the energy for that kind of fakery. I recently read a news story about a guy who conned a lot of women out of money – all online. He kept a record of everyone he had contact with and what he told them so as not to confuse his identities.

            Did you not feel there was any reason to meet him? Does he live far from you? I have some FB friends I’ve never met but they are friends of people I know. Otherwise, I try not to engage too much online as my real self with people I have not met.

            But even if you are careful a narc can get at you virtually. My FR with MRN was real life but early on I asked if he only wanted a virtual relationship and dumped him for the first time. I already recognized that he was controlling and e-tethering (emailing all the time but never available unless I was unavailable, at which point he would be in hot pursuit – the third time I saw him he came over basically uninvited). And yes, I had the same thought. This makes no sense.

            MRN insisted he did not want a virtual relationship but I think he still got a lot of kicks out of messing with women online. He once contacted *me* on a dating site 3 weeks after he and IPPS began to ‘reconcile’ and I had escaped for the second time. I took a screen shot and told him he was acting psycho, since he had a million ways to contact me that did not involve him being on a dating site looking for someone ‘to share my life with’ while he was back with IPPS. I would insist to myself that things were going to be different the next time, and the next time, and the next time, until I had left him five times at which point I did not go back. He continues to hoover me online 18 months after my final escape. He gets a lot of fuel from it!

            Mid ranger mind fuck indeed. HG is right about the virtual stuff, especially for mid-rangers.

          73. Desirée says:

            Hugo Boss now has Christmas Socks. Are you a UK 11? I heard what they say about the shoe size of men and you keep showing us yours.

          74. HG Tudor says:

            Yes, I am a UK 11.

          75. FYC says:

            HG, imagine your influencer power. If you created an “HG Approves” list of items and added them to the House of Tudor, you would open a new dual revenue stream (paid by brands to influence, paid by those who order).

            Desiree could volunteer to select some women’s fashion items, and Lorelei could select hair must haves.

            Pretty off topic, unless proceeds go to the AAF…Boom! Back on topic. Happy return$.

          76. Bibi says:


            He lived in another country. I have many online people I know who range from casual acquaintance to those I consider close friends. We bond on similar interests. I have met some in person.

            With this guy, he was one of the 1st who approached me and the thought of meeting him in IRL was not really possible, as it was like pulling teeth just to get him to use a camera on Skype. One might say he is just really shy (I thought this) save for his 100s of social media photos and accounts where he uses his gayness to lure young guys.

            After I found out his Twitter page, I searched his handle and name and found him using gay porn sites and posting places where he trolls for cock. He is a predator in that nature for them but was different with me.

            At 1st I didn’t have romantic interest in him, as I didn’t even know what he looked like for 3 yrs in, but when he began doing the push pull I questioned if I might, given I had become so addicted to our regular contact.

            When I informed him this might be the case he did not take it well. He called me immature and then I apologized and said I was mistaken. ‘Clearly you don’t have what I need,’ I said.

            Wherein his response, instead of saying, ‘You’re right, b/c I am gay,’ he said, ‘You can’t say that b/c you don’t know what I am capable of giving.’

            So carrot dangling, I would never be good enough, etc. He knew that if he told me the truth that I would not give him as much attention. He also did it to assert control, as I later learned from HG’s articles.

            It is strange and a mess. It hurt me more than narcy bfs b/c it was attached to my creativity and to have someone reject me at such a level was beyond painful. With anyone else my narcissism could step in and say, ‘Well he didn’t get me anyway, so no loss.’

            Except I felt this guy did get me down to my core. Even after I learned he was gay, he sent me this song (this is before I blew up at him) where the lyrics were saying things like, ‘You’re an angel to me, I want to hold you all night,’ Shit like that. WTF?

            My mind did not know what to do or think or feel.

          77. SMH says:

            Bibi, That is incredibly brutal and shocking. If someone did that to me around my work I would be devastated too. I think the feeling that the narc ‘gets’ you is pretty common, though, because they aim for you to think that way – they mirror, right? I felt that MRN ‘got’ me too. Even if yours betrayed you in the end, he must have had meaningful insights into your work and into you as a person in order for you to maintain that relationship for such a long time. Can you think of anything positive that came from it? I think it is possible to have an attachment and a sexual orientation that don’t line up though I realize that his sexual orientation is not really the issue – it is rather the ways that he betrayed you.

          78. Bibi says:


            Anything good that came of my knowing the Mid Ranger was my doing, not his. In retrospect, I didn’t really learn much from him. I was the one sharing more and informing him of things, etc. He never recommended a book or film, I was the one always doing it.

            He was intelligent with some of his critical feedback but that part of his brain died long ago.

            As for the good that came of it? I know a lot more about myself, narcissism, I don’t make excuses for bad behaviour, I have better boundaries, I have learned so much that I would not have otherwise. Not to mention he brought me to HG and his work (somewhat).

            Through the Mid Ranger I learned more about my Lesser dad, other narcs in my life, and if I ever construct a passive aggressive character, I know what source to use.

            And were it not for that experience, we would not be having this conversation. So a lot of good came from it–I just wish it didn’t need to be so painful back then. I am fine now but I was very different then–much higher on my ET and a sobbing mess. Because I believed I was boring and not good enough. So dumb now, in retrospect. He is the one who is boring and not good enough!

          79. SMH says:

            Bibi, Yes to all of that!! Exactly my conclusions too. I also discovered from this site that my ExH is a Lesser and my mother is a Matrinarc (don’t know which kind but probably also a Lesser). Luckily, I don’t have to deal with ExH anymore but I do have to deal with Matrinarc. I still cannot quite contain my ET with her, which makes me distance myself as well as realize that I probably would not be able to contain my ET with MRN or with ExH either, so staying away is the only answer.

            It is good to see that you recognize positive things from the fallout. I think we all have to be introspective once we get here and have the tools. Yes we got hurt but we learn more than how not to be hurt again. It’s deeper than that. Sometimes I wish for my old naive self again but my history is not exactly stable and stellar anyway, so there was clearly something I did not know about myself that caused it.

  14. KP says:

    Is this your way of saying you miss me HG?
    Well, gosh,… I miss you too luv! Besitos

    1. Bibi says:

      Haha, KP. Good one.

      I sometimes feel shame in feeling lonely when I shouldn’t. Sometimes I am lonely but I am not at the moment. The Mid Ranger exacerbated it though.

      “Are you lonely? You are a very lonely woman,” he would say. And he would say it with a hint of pity.

      I want to give an example of the difference b/t the Mid Ranger and my current closest friend, who is a Super Empath. One night I was Skyping him and his boyfriend (now husband). I was drunk and when I get drunk I get very silly. Apparently I mooned them. I don’t remember doing this, however.

      The next morning, when he informed me of this, I was filled with shame and humiliation. I immediately began apologizing over and over because the Mid Ranger would make me feel bad anytime I sent him some drunken silliness, or was just silly at all. It wouldn’t have to be drunken.

      The Mid Ranger would say something like, ‘Sending me drunken emails seems to indicate a loneliness within you, etc.’

      So long story short. When I was apologizing to the Super Empath pal, his response was, ‘Don’t apologize for that.’ He thought it was funny and we had a good laugh over it.

      So that was my action on one Saturday night a few years ago. Mooning 2 gay dudes over Skype. You can’t take me anywhere.

      1. nunya biz says:

        I love that story, Bibi : )
        It is true, and a good reminder that when someone makes me feel bad it’s usually time to take off, because if not a narc, still often a jerk. I had a recent situation bothering me and one person I would tell it to would react more with judgmental analysis for my complaint and another I know would say “if you are upset about it then that’s how you feel.” Having grown up without a lot of validation for my feelings and perceptions I really respected her for saying that and it deepened my appreciation for her as an individual.

        1. Bibi says:

          Exactly, Nunya. I too started listening more to my feelings and how someone else is always making me feel. The Mid Ranger would always want to create slights over something. He was so serious and never laughed. Everything offended him.

          The Mid Ranger always interpreted my silly humor as ‘neediness’ and ‘desperation for his attention.’ As the devaluation went on I never laughed around him, so essentially I could not be me.

          My Super Empath pal never holds my vulnerabilities against me. I can be as I am without ‘punishment.’ He doesn’t treat me like I am 2nd rate and he welcomes me into his life and has this loyalty towards our friendship, which is nice.

          The Mid Ranger always played the victim and wanted to make it seem like I was always violating his ‘boundaries’. As example, when I called him out on his obsessive secrecy (he literally never wanted to share anything personal about himself) he responded with, ‘What do you want to see next? Doctor’s notes?’

          It is so ridiculous when I look back on it.

          1. nunya biz says:

            So awesome to read your posts Bibi, I relate. I actually had an interaction with a highly suspected MMR a few days ago that left me feeling really bad. I had looked for a polite exit to the conversation a few times but he kept going and I was nice and then somehow made me feel like I was pressuring him to talk at the end in an unusual way that surprised me. Very wary of push-pull dynamics in both men and women.

            In the past I’d given too much leeway in some circumstances and where I saw simple human error in mid-rangers I now see lack of self-awareness and lower intelligence, which is great. I also notice how some mid-rangers are just hell bent on self-sabotage. Absolutely cannot accept a positive situation for what it is. Unbelievable. And I gratefully have lost much of the desire to correct/argue/explain beyond HG’s “say it once” concept, though I do still feel intense emotional reactions that I have to process. I’m going to hang out with the “that is how you feel” woman later. Just say no to toxicity : )

          2. Bibi says:


            Whatever was going on with that MMR is his problem and not yours. We tend to internalize and shame and blame ourselves, but I’ve had to train myself to realize that perception is not reality. It’s not up to you to worry about any perceived slights on his end. And if you don’t like the way you feel around someone, that is ok to not want to be around them. He is not your problem.

          3. nunya biz says:

            Thank you Bibi! I am proud of myself that far more frequently I tell myself I don’t owe anyone any type of social out and I do at least more quickly get to a point where I actually don’t care at all if they feel bad because like you say it’s just not my problem. I even said that to someone regarding a work issue recently “that’s her problem” and I calmly meant it. Perception is not reality…great point.

            P.S. I’m sure you have a great booty and joy and luck to those who should be privileged to gaze upon it : )

        2. K says:

          nunya biz
          You are back!!! I missed you!!!

          1. nunya biz says:

            I missed you, K : ) I hope you are doing well!

          2. K says:

            nunya biz
            All is well on my end and I hope you are doing well, too. I was hoping that you would be hoovered back.

          3. nunya biz says:

            Ha, K, HG is pretty irresistible. I try to balance in my life, but KTN has a good place.

      2. Witch says:

        😆 that’s brilliant!
        The Mid-Ranger sounds dry as hell!
        The first narcissistic ex was boring AF! You had to be mature at all times in his presence.
        I remember coming back late from going out to karaoke and of course he was still awake with a “what time do you call this?” As if he was my father.
        The second mid ranger was much more fun, he let me flirt with other women when I was tipsy lol!

    2. Sweetest Perfection says:

      This is for SMH, I can’t find a link to reply directly to her. Go to any store: gas station, Walgreens, Target, etc. next to the cash register they always have visa gift cards. Buy the ones that have a little picture of a bow and no fee for credit, although there is a small one-time fee for purchasing it. Then, get the one with the amount you need or even better, get the ones that give you the option to add from $25-$500, you tell the register what amount to charge you for. Say $500 because HG is worth it. HAHA just a little joke. Then when you get home, create a new PayPal account with a fake name such as Sarah Harriet Monroe, and give a fake address (I’m supposed to live in a rural town in the mountains which is not true). Add the card number and… voilà! You’re set and incognito!

      1. NarcAngel says:

        You don’t even have to create a Paypal account. When you add to cart there are 2 options.
        1. Paypal checkout
        2. Checkout (without using Paypal).

        I use 2 and it accepts the Visa gift card. Easy.

        1. Sweetest Perfection says:

          Well I did because I don’t use PayPal for anything.

          1. FYC says:

            HI Sweet P, Any particular reason you do not use PayPal?

          2. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Just like HG with change, FYC: I never saw the need to do so.

          3. FYC says:

            I see, SP. Thank you for your reply.

          4. Sweetest Perfection says:

            In actuality it kills my spontaneous desire to donate to the angels. If it were as easy as making an order on Amazon… but no, I wanted to help an angel today. I clicked on the button and expected to be able to send the amount as usual. My card didn’t have enough funds so it declined the operation. Because I have to work all day until 8:30, I will need to wait until I have time to go back to the store buy the gift card remove the old one add the new number et etc. it’s an inconvenience.

          5. Lorelei says:

            Very sweet Sweetest! I think setting up a recurring monthly donation is a good idea—noticed this feature. I will cut my personal trainer back to two days from three starting in December to allow for it. He and I basically just socialize more than anything.

          6. SMH says:

            I can see this inconvenience already, SP. I’ve only bought the one card. Still I had to remember to do it, go get it, now activate it and see if PP takes it etc. There is also a charge for each card, which could add up to a nice donation in and of itself. In this day and age you’d think there would be easier ways to guarantee anonymity. I think that private.com site I mentioned to FYC might hold some of the answers. If anyone figures it out, please let us know!

          7. HG Tudor says:

            Well if one chooses to remain anonymous, this does of course require some expenditure of effort to achieve it. Take it from me, SMH, I should know!

          8. SMH says:

            That is true, HG. You are the master of anonymity!

          9. HG Tudor says:

            Indeed. I acknowledge the concerns of others and you are, as is always the case, in the place, welcome to your advance your views.

          10. SMH says:

            Thank you, HG. It has been an interesting discussion. Let’s just hope it leads me to be able to donate.

          11. Lorelei says:

            Sweetest—Paypal is great for securing your card info—this is why almost all online retailers take it in check out. I love not having to enter my card info! My fanfare began years ago. I used it for EBay if I recall. I still like eBay at times. Stores make me feel anxious so I even buy dog food online. I only go to the grocery because I am particular about produce which is my staple.

          12. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I love Apple Pay. I wish I could pay everything with that instead of carrying my card to places. It’s the future of payments!

          13. Lorelei says:

            I have Apple Pay set up but haven’t used it yet.

          14. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Oh, I love going to places and asking do you guys carry Apple Pay (I was about to spell Pie, yum). It makes me feel so bourgeoisie! For a sad lonely moment at least.

      2. SMH says:

        Thank you, SP. As I just wrote to FYC I already have the fake email and fake name, just not a fake address. It is easy enough to make one up but I don’t like to have to keep track of too much fake stuff – I could never do what MRN does, for instance. Makes my brain hurt. This sounds doable, however!

        1. Sweetest Perfection says:

          It keeps the same address each time even if you enter a different card. You don’t need to remember it.

          1. SMH says:

            SP, If I can’t just bypass PP to use the card, I’ll try your way and make up an address.

      3. Lorelei says:

        Good suggestions! I personally am ok with HG knowing my real email or whatever. (He does see your email through WordPress—not sure if people know this.) He can come over for pizza if he’s really hungry—I just don’t care. My horror of life is over—it was the confusion and exhaustion that got me. There is no boogie man from this day forward that can recreate that brand of bullshit and HG isn’t a dribbling dumbass anyway. But..
        HG—can you add a section expanding on all these tips in this thread to Narcsite for new and existing readers? I am willing to bet the need for anonymity is enormous considering your self description is unflattering until readers acclimate to the concepts of narcissism and understanding of what is dangerous, etc. We are our own worst enemies—not you. This drive for anonymity may be a real blockade for people embracing your work until the lightbulbs go off.
        I think it’s also important that people understand the reasons for meeting people on here as a mixed bag. Empaths are not always going to mix well or truly meet other empaths, and it can alter what one feels they can post by having relationships. I personally feel the benefit has outweighed negatives—but negativity can exist. I’ve met narcissists (2) within an empath platform on FB and had to write them off. I’ve been mostly fortunate but it renders forth discussion that is essential. **When people get here they aren’t often fully functioning at maximum capacity—I got really lucky considering my level of functioning up until recent months. Narcissists can deplete decision making capacity and cognitive processing. Been there and it is quite humbling to reflect back after being a top academic achiever in life and to have made such potentially awful decisions.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Useful suggestion. I have made a note.

          1. Lorelei says:

            I think it’s a win/win to provide the tips indeed. Post it under anonymity as a headline of sorts. It’s a bewildering world to navigate. Sometimes I think AA/NA programs should also proactively “warn”‘consumers similarly that all attendees with sobriety are not necessarily altruistic. Just another example.. I have a friend—I know what he is. Cardiologist with 20 years sober. He’s f***** probably every other vulnerable woman in AA. I stay “way secondary!!” I did kiss him once though. OMG it was an accident.

        2. SMH says:

          Lorelei, Yes, I cannot be the only one who has not bought any services or items from this site because of the anonymity problem. Amazon is different of course but as HG expands his site offerings, it might be especially important to explain the different ways of doing things.

          HG, I think your revenue streams will grow exponentially if people who want to can easily get around this problem. I am not sure visa gift cards are the answer because they do take some work and most of us are just used to paying for something with just a few clicks. Too bad GoFundMe does not allow anonymity.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            All information is treated confidentially. I have no interest in the names and details of those who use my services, only to provide them with the excellent service that I offer. There are many who use the services anonymously also.

          2. SMH says:

            HG, I am sure there but then there must also be dolts like me who had no idea how to purchase anonymously and so just did not purchase anything!

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Statistically there must be, albeit I would expect people to raise a query about being able to do so and they do not do so. People just get on with it.

          4. SMH says:

            Well, maybe had I really needed a consult for myself I would have raised the issue sooner. But my guilt at not being able to donate is stronger, so there you go! That is what made me ask. Thanks FYC, for triggering my guilt! (jk FYC)

          5. Lorelei says:

            Is it too late for me to be anonymous?!

          6. Sweetest Perfection says:

            HAHAHA! You can try, Lorelei, but we will get you at the first mention of Amazon shopping or hair beauty tips.

          7. Lorelei says:

            So changing my name to Beatrice is out of the question? I’ve already changed names a few times!

          8. Sweetest Perfection says:

            SMH, I was one of them. It took me a long time to figure that out too and just because FM1T mentioned the gift cards and taught me how to use it was I able to start consulting etc. It’s not that intuitive for us to have a double identity haha.

          9. HG Tudor says:

            The fact is if I wanted to find out who people are, I can do so readily enough anyway. However, I am not interested in doing so as I have far more important matters to attend to. People are best served with getting on with consultations etc and dealing with receiving the information that is going to help them, rather than worry about shrouding their identity from me.

          10. Sweetest Perfection says:

            I know that.

          11. SMH says:

            HG, You can claim to be benign until the cows come home but that doesn’t really matter to the way some of us feel about what SP refers to as double identities. To my mind, it isn’t about you really, because we don’t know you. It is about how some empaths operate. Don’t take it personally.

          12. HG Tudor says:

            I don’t. I am not claiming to be benign. I am explaining I have no interest and need no interest.

          13. SMH says:

            I get what you are saying, HG, but who knows if some day you will have interest.

          14. HG Tudor says:

            I have no need, nor will I.

          15. SMH says:

            Well, MRN sure changed his mind! Anyway, let’s just hope that I can use that gift card without jumping through hoops.

          16. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Come on! If I can be called Sweetest Perfection and use PayPal without giving the impression I offer prostitution services, you will be fine!

          17. SMH says:

            lol SP. But do you use Sweetest Perfection as your name? It was making me enter a name, address, etc, which caught me off guard. I thought it would only want the card info. Let’s hope it is just that I have to wait 24 hours for the card to be activated.

          18. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Yep! I’m secret agent SP in my other life, in the blog, on IG, on Skype, on Amazon, and on PP! Like Nikita but sweeter.

          19. SMH says:

            I have a fake name too (other than SMH) but I always forget what it is! Maybe I will take Femme Nikita. I’d remember that!

          20. Lorelei says:

            What do you perfect sweetly Sweetest?

          21. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Lorelei, I can say I’m a sweet expert on something you yourself have claimed to not be good at; however, I have an ample repertoire of skills. If you need further information you can opt for the double whammy or the full Monty service. Hahaha HG I’m sorry I’m sorry I just couldn’t resist.

          22. Lorelei says:

            Oh my—I had to read that twice! Haha

          23. MB says:

            SMH er Mike Pence, I have to ask…do you feel rejected? Haha just kidding.

          24. SMH says:

            MB, I made up an email with the word ‘mommy’ in it too. lol.

          25. Sweetest Perfection says:

            UH-UH! It’s totally is about him, SMH! HG, do you give me permission to go for a run before purchasing the gift card? It’s lovely outside. I love this weather.

          26. SMH says:

            lol SP. *I* give you permission.

          27. Sweetest Perfection says:

            Thank you, SMH, I’m already back. I **escaped** hehe. It was a glorious run! This cold air is perfect.

          28. SMH says:

            Hehe SP. Listen to your inner narc and always put yourself first!

          29. E. B. says:


            I would not worry about it. HG takes confidentiality very seriously. As a businessman, it would be unprofessional and to his own detriment to betray his clients’ trust.
            Also, confidentiality is reciprocal. As his clients, we do not disclose any information from consultations or from products we have purchased.

            Some of us live in countries where it is not allowed to open a bank account or a PayPal account with a fake identity and fake information. P.O. Box as an address is not accepted either. I mean, we can create an account with false information but we will not be able to use it.

            As for those having problems with PayPal, I would use the live chat *with a human* or just call the customer service. They will activate features that may be ‘disabled’.

          30. SMH says:

            EB, I talked to Visa and they said the problem was with the merchant (HG), not with PP, so PP would not be able to help. But thank you for the advice.

          31. HG Tudor says:

            There’s no issue at my end. Everybody else uses PayPal and I’m never notified of any issues. You’re not being given correct information

          32. SMH says:

            Possibly the Visa people are wrong, HG, but there is still a discrepancy between the way the card is registered (just with a zip code) and the information PP asks for. I’ll use this one for something else and look for a card that I don’t have to register. The only other option is to email the card number and info to you, and you can try to enter it in PP?

          33. Sweetest Perfection says:

            SMH, I registered my card with the same zip code I use for PayPal and still doesn’t work. I used MY OWN zip code and it doesn’t work. I’m gonna do an experiment. I’m going out to dinner with my husband, and I will try to pay with this card to see if the problem is the card.

          34. SMH says:

            Good idea, SP. Let me know what happens. I’ve just been reading a slew of complaints about these cards. We are not the only ones. Enjoy your dinner out!

          35. Sweetest Perfection says:

            SMH, I was able to use my card to pay for dinner at least.

          36. SMH says:

            That’s good to know, SP. At least it is not money flushed down the toilet! When I asked Visa about a refund they said it would take awhile, require a written letter and blah blah blah. I will try to use mine too in the next few days and buy another one that does not require registration.

            Hope dinner was good!

          37. E. B. says:

            Just a couple of things to add:
            -PP accepts visa gift cards with a logo on it.
            -Some gift cards need to be activated before you can use them. They have a sticker on the front with a toll-free number. I thought yours could need to be activated first since you mentioned the (activation) fee.
            -You can get an error message if your card does not have enough balance (amount minus activation fee)

            [Gift cards are like cash, thus widely used by scammers, fraudsters and other narcissists asking family members and friends to *borrow* them money: “I will pay you back”]

          38. SMH says:

            Hi EB, I did activate it. I also registered it and can see the balance online. It was also checked over the phone when I called Visa. Trust me that I did everything possible except call PayPal because I’d rather use this card for something else, as SP did (she had the same problem) than have to make another phone call. At a certain point is not worth my time. I am just glad I did not put $1000000 on it! 🙂

          39. SMH says:

            Anyway, more importantly, if I don’t get on and do what I have to do this morning, I won’t have time to get to the gift card!

          40. HG Tudor says:

            Ha ha, you’d best get on with it then!

          41. SMH says:

            I just spent 45 minutes trying to do the damned donation, HG. PayPal won’t take my card. Do you think it’s because I am masquerading as Mike Pence? 🙂 I’ll try again later. It might take awhile to activate.

          42. MB says:

            With the internet, hardly anybody has anonymity these days! I’m surprised somebody here hasn’t been able to figure out your true identity, HG. It isn’t for the lack of trying on my part. I’m a stalker!

          43. FYC says:

            The problem with crowdsourcing sites are the higher fees involved (3.5% on up). HG incurs these fees. PayPal is 2.9%. Just another example of why HG is not going to profit from these donations, but thankfully the Angels will.

            Thank you very much, SMH, for taking the extra actions to donate. It is very kind of you.

          44. Lorelei says:

            I understand SMH. Agree 100%.

          45. SMH I’m thinking Femme Fatale would make a cool name

          46. SMH says:

            It would, Alexissmith2016. Grab it before I do!

        3. MB says:

          Lorelei, “He can come over for pizza if he’s really hungry” 😂

          1. Lorelei says:

            Well hilariously he would be really pissed off because we don’t order out! I am making a chicken stir fry tonight but generally it’s vegetables and goat cheese. We also don’t have cable or orange juice much to the chagrin of my friend that visited the other day. She was appalled we couldn’t watch tv or that there was no OJ. I have Netflix of course but I get onto the kids if they watch it too much. She said, “You have a 60 inch tv and no f***** cable!!” Then she asked, “Do you need me to pay for a subscription?!”
            I have the fire stick thing though for the kids. Pizza is infrequent indeed. We walk a lot, board games and live entertainment. I can’t stand video game consoles or whatever they are called either.

          2. MB says:

            Lorelei, no TV, no pizza, no video games, and then adding insult to injury with that wretched goat cheese! My children would be reporting me to social services for child abuse.

          3. Lorelei says:

            Haha MB. The goat cheese is sun dried tomato flavor. My house guest did offer to buy me cable though—very kind of her! I just don’t want the mind dump. Video games are deplorable though—they will never happen.

          4. Bibi says:

            Who has cable nowadays? I don’t even have NF anymore. I got the Criterion Channel which I stream on my laptop because my TV is non-existent. NF is boring now. Used to be cool but not for me.

            It would be funny to make HG that crappy ramen. You know that stuff in a cup where all you need do is add hot water? The sodium is so high that he won’t be able to button his pants for at least 12 hrs afterwards.

          5. Lorelei says:

            Bibi—I have certainly enjoyed television in times past—it’s just not my thing anymore! Agree!

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