The Empathic Supernova


What is the Empathic Supernova?

In order to detail this phenomenon, it is first necessary to consider when it might appear and what is behind its appearance.

The repeated application of our manipulations is deployed for the purposes of maintaining control over you. This control reinforces our notion of superiority,  omnipotence and impregnability and enables us to draw fuel from our appliances and most of all you as our primary source.

I have made mention of the Empathic Group, the group which lies to the left of the empathic-narcissistic spectrum and within this group there are three schools of the empathic individual; the Co-Dependent, the Super Empath and the Empath.

The sustained application of the many and varied manipulations produces results for us. It also takes its toll on our victims. The Co-Dependent will cling on, desperate for the self-definition which manifests as a consequence of their ensnarement with us. They will soak up the abuse, the confusion and the control until they reach a point of breakdown. The cumulative effect of the silent treatments, the gas lighting, the physical abuse, the psychological trauma, financial mistreatment and sexual degradation eventually causes the limpet-like Co-Dependent to collapse into numbness, malfunction and potential hospitalisation. They gave and gave until suddenly they fell off the cliff and their fuel provision remained impressive on Monday and by Tuesday it had stopped. No longer capable of pumping out fuel, attending to our requirements and showering us with appropriate traits and residual benefits, this failure to function invariably brings about the discard of this individual. The discarded Co-Dependent, although distraught at the loss of the narcissist which they crave, is in no position to try to bring about the resumption of the relationship and thus, whilst we focus on their replacement primary source, they are allowed a period by which they can recover and once the lights switch back on again and the fuel starts to pump, the devaluation of their replacement has begun, so we come looking and hoovering for the Co-Dependent. Unable to resist, because of the nature of the hoovering and their own vulnerability, they are hoovered back in and the narcissistic cycle continues.

Whilst third parties may try to assist the Co-Dependent to see and understand what has happened to them, their own substantial need to connect with a narcissist means it is very hard to make them take notice and stay away from us. Unless physically removed and isolated, the Co-Dependent will drift back to us. If not the original narcissist, a replacement narcissist will invariably be found.

The empathic-narcissistic spectrum is a sliding scale that represents both empathic and narcissistic traits. On the far left the empathic traits are more numerous and stronger whilst the narcissistic traits are fewer and weaker. Move to the right and the empathic traits begin to lessen in number, their effects less evident and the narcissistic traits begin to increase and become more prevalent. Eventually, as one reaches the Narcissistic Group, on the right of this spectrum, the empathic traits have disappeared and all that remain are narcissistic traits which become more numerous and stronger the further right one goes within this Narcissistic Group.

Accordingly, with the Co-Dependent, he or she will have many empathic traits and they are strong in nature. Their devotion to love, their honesty, decency, excellent listening skills, positivity etc are most evident and contribute to create a highly empathic individual. The narcissistic traits are almost invisible and the few that exist are weak. Accordingly, this prevalence of empathic traits attracts and is attracted to the prevalence of extensive and strong narcissistic traits. They locked together, complementing one another and consequently the Co-Dependent is inexorably drawn to those within the Narcissistic Group, with next to nothing in terms of their own narcissistic traits to act as some kind of repellant.

The Empath may also find themselves shutting down, but more usually they are prevented from reaching a position of complete numbing though the intervention of a third party. Sure enough the toll exacted on the Empath is considerable and has damaging consequences, but, in general, they manage to avoid more often the fate of the Co-Dependent. Instead, rather than giving and giving until shut down occurs (as is the case with the Co-Dependent) the Empath’s performance deteriorates in terms of fuel output in a more gradual fashion which means that when it dips below a threshold of acceptability for our kind, the Empath is also discarded. Not so damaged as to be unable to function, the Empath will endeavour to re-connect with our kind, having sufficient energy and ability to do so, but they will be shunned as part of this discard until it is time to hoover them. Unaware of what they have been ensnared by and with capabilities improved after a period of respite arising from the discard, the Empath is sucked back in by the narcissist and thus the narcissistic cycle continues.

The Empath however may also realise that something is wrong, or assisted by third parties and more amenable to listening, takes notice of what these third parties are telling him or her. They have a moment of ‘awakening’ and with that realise that they must remain away from our grip, however hurtful and hard it may be and thus they eventually escape, putting distance between them and our kind.

The Empath has numerous empathic traits and they are of strength but they are not on the same scale as the Co-Dependent. The Empath will have some narcissistic traits, not many and not especially strong in nature, but they will have more narcissistic traits than the Co-Dependent. Their status as an Empath (along with the fact that there are more Empaths than Co-Dependents) means that Empaths become the bread and butter target for our kind. They too are attracted to us, not with the almost hopeless vulnerability of the Co-Dependent, but they remain not only attracted to our kind but a target.

Finally, there is the Super Empath. The Super Empath is an excellent provider of fuel also and comes with a confidence and a fieriness which proves most tempting to our kind. The Super Empath sees his or her role as helping, fixing, healing and brining goodness to those around them. They have considerable energy, they are capable and their capacity for sustaining our abuses also makes them a considerably attractive prospect. The Co-Dependent can sustain considerable abuse until suddenly, like a light being extinguished, that is it. The Empath also can sustain our manipulations but their slide is slower and more gradual. The Super Empath, blessed with a vast capacity for empathy and goodness is also somebody who can sustain a lengthy campaign of abuse. There is no slide downwards with this individual like the Empath. There is no sudden collapse like the Co-Dependent. Instead the Super Empath goes in to Supernova mode.

The trait make-up of the Super Empath is different from their cousins in the Empathic Group. Whereas the Co-Dependent has strong and many empathic traits with little and low narcissistic traits and the Empath has few and fairly low narcissistic traits but more and quite strong empathic traits, the Super Empath has a different constitution.

The Super Empath has very strong and numerous empathic traits. He or she also has a number of narcissistic traits (more than the Co-Dependent and the Empath but not as many as the Narcissistic Group) and they are stronger in nature than those experienced by the Co-Dependent and the Empath.

This arrangement is not problematic. Liken the Super Empath’s narcissistic make-up to the light from a candle and their empathic make-up the light from a spotlight. The intensity of the spotlight is so bright that the candle light is barely noticed. Accordingly, the narcissistic element to the Super Empath does not appear. The Super Empath behaves in an empathic way and thus is a target for our kind.

There comes a time however when the sustained abuse and the awareness of the Super Empath reaches a critical point. Rather than switch off or slide into decline, the Super Empath will decide that enough is enough. In some instances, this means that the Super Empath will escape and follow a similar route to that of the Empath and distance themselves from the narcissist.

On other occasions they enter into Supernova mode. When this happens, the Super Empath will dim their empathic traits. This can only be dimming. The empathic traits cannot be shut off as they are wired into the empath’s dna. Moreover, this dimming can only continue for a period of time and is not permanent. The naturally strong empathic nature of the Super Empath means that it will blaze bright again.

However, when this dimming takes places, the gap between empathy and narcissism in the Super Empath lessens so that the narcissistic traits are more prevalent. They do not dominate nor do they take over, but they are allowed to ‘shine’. However, whereas in our kind the application of our narcissistic traits is unfettered since we have no empathic traits and thus these traits are directed in a malevolent, harmful and destructive manner, the Super Empath uses these unleashed narcissistic traits for ‘good’.

This means that they will fight back against our kind and remain in the relationship with us. They will shut off the fuel provision, they will engage in manipulation of us, having learned how to effect it form their accompanying journey with out kind. The Super Empath will wound and wound, striking blow upon blow against the narcissist.  It is worth pointing out that the Super Empath does not necessarily know that they are with a narcissist (they may only realise this later) but rather they know that something is very wrong in the relationship and it must no longer continue.

Thus when some people ask the question

“Can you become a narcissist from being with a narcissist?”


“Can I pick up narcissistic traits from my experience of being entangled with a narcissist?”

The answer remains no.

But, if you find that you are exhibiting such traits and you are deploying them against the narcissist, what has happened is that you are allowing your inherent narcissistic traits to have greater prominence. You keep them under control and you are not allowing them to harm or hurt innocent parties, but rather you are applying them against the narcissist in order to strike back. You always had these traits, you have not gained them by being with us, but what you have learned is how to manipulate from being with us and now you are turning those manipulations against us.

The effect against us is varied.

The Lesser Narcissist will discard immediately with a display of ignited fury as he seeks to escape the turning of the tables. He will need to get away from this empowered Super Empath and find a new primary source straight away. He wants to shrink from this blazing  supernova of power which is causing him considerable difficulty through the cessation of fuel and the wounding from repeated criticism.

The Mid-Range Narcissist will find himself in a tormented loop as he tries to assert control. He will not comprehend truly what is happening. He will not want to lose the Super Empath owing to the fuel provision, but he is finding that his ability to manipulate and the reasonable degree of calculation that he has, is being sorely tested. He will try to assert his control through passive aggressive means, even pleading with the Super Empath to stop and ‘why can’t you be good to me again’? He will roll out the pity plays and sympathy cards in order to try to achieve superiority again. However,  either the Super Empath decides to escape and leaves the Mid-Ranger in a confused and bewildered state or the Mid-Ranger slinks away and discards,unable to sustain the fight and needing a new and far more compliant primary source.

The Greater Narcissist will rail against this insurrection and fight back. He will draw on fuel from alternative sources (usually the IPSS or IPSSs he has in the wings along with fuel form those NISS who are his inner and outer circle friends). He will relish the challenge shown by the Super Empath and a real battle of wills ensues as each combatant deploys manipulation after manipulation against one another. This hammer and tongs clash of the  titans sees the Super Empath applying what they have learned, similar to the apprentice turning on his or her master, as the old hand seeks to slap down the irreverent upstart. The Super Empath may withdraw and escape, satisfied that they have made their mark and scarred the Greater. The Greater may ultimately recognise that only a stalemate (for now) can ensue and breaks off, discarding the Super Empath and focusses on the acquisition of a new primary source (or more likely the promotion of an already ensnared IPSS). The Greater however will not leave matters there. A note will be made to rejoin battle in due course and bring the Super Empath to heel.

Thus the Empathic Supernova is when the Super Empath determines that enough is enough and he or she reduces their empathic traits, allowing the narcissistic traits to come to the fore and in so doing he or she trains their sights on making life difficult, miserable and awkward for the narcissist. This is why our kind proceed with caution with the Super Empath. Their capacity for sucking up the abusive devaluation and their impressive fuel provision is tempting indeed, but reaching the critical point and causing the ignition of the Empathic Supernova can have dire consequences for our kind.

Not for me of course. I relish the challenge and the assertion of hegemonic dominance. Obviously.

172 thoughts on “The Empathic Supernova

  1. Sovanesh says:

    Wow, this is great. So after ending my relationship, just want to ask you a question. I realize that my ex Narcissist partner was my catalyst, I am just wondering to myself if I was also a catalyst in a way for him. I would really like to hear from you on this one.


    1. HG Tudor says:

      I do not understand your question, catalyst for what?

  2. Dolores Haze says:

    OMG, guys; guess what… I just noticed that the Narcissist in question unblocked me on Facebook after a full month of no contact (in preparation for a Hoover, I’m sure)… which gave me the opportunity to BLOCK HIM ASAP! And that will be for good, here’s hoping 🤞 I could really use some words of encouragement, if I may fish for it (“way to go, Dolly!” “you go, girl!” etc), pretty please 🙏

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Why are you observing what he is doing on Facebook. You are not imposing a no contact regime, Dolores.

      1. Dolores Haze says:

        Fair enough, but I’ll tell you why: he blocked me on FB before I had the guts to block him. So I was waiting for the chance to take back control and checked exactly twice – two weeks ago and today – whether I’m unblocked, with the only goal to block him. He was blocked by me everywhere else already, FB was the last resort.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are being led by your emotional thinking, Dolores.

          1. Dolores Haze says:

            That is why I’m here looking for help.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            You need to utilise a consultation to tackle your emotional thinking because of the level of detailed input that is required.

        2. Desirée says:

          Your desire to take back control is how they reign you back in. It’s impossible to control narcissists in this manner, but the ongoing engagement with them (even if only through thinking about it) weakens us.

          1. Dolores Haze says:

            Dear Desirée,

            Thank you for saying “us”. Only a couple of months ago I was still deep in the love fog, and up to a month ago the only thing I knew about narcissism is that Greek myth. It’s a new and very lonely place for me, I’m confused and heartbroken, and the only thing I know for sure is I want out of it. I can use all the support I can get, that includes the tough love for which I’m grateful. It feels nice to know I’m not alone.

            Dear HG,

            You are right, as ever. ET manifestation at its cruelest and sneakiest. I recognize it because I’m drowning in tears as I type this. I’ll stick around at the blog if you don’t mind, and continue the consultations; I want to break free.

  3. Vanessa says:

    This is probably going to sound awful but I couldn’t help myself after finding out I was given a fake ring by a man. I really started to study your material then. I read in one of your books that they hate the idea of getting old or anything of that sort. I went to a computer that was not mine and I ordered him trial size men diapers. In small and large to his house. He called and was so mad, hi exact words were “ can you believe someone sent me men depends.” I said no, “who would do such thing but it’s not unheard of, I get samples for similac and my daughter is 15, so maybe it’s just a mistake” however , because I had my tailbone removed I told him he should bring them to my because it may be able to hold my ice packs in place. I was trying so hard not to laugh. I swear he came over the next day and under his arm he carries in Poise diapers for women. He said “my roommate X went to the store and I went with him and figured I would be kind and pick you up some pads.” Well he had an ex-wife and daughters, so I knew damn well that he knew what women products looked like and they weren’t Poise diapers but that was so profound because it told me he knew I knew what he was. Another, thing I got from your material is at the work place they like to see themselves as something they are not. So, I wrote a letter of course I did not use my writing as I typed it out and I pretended he requested his last company to send him a letter of recommendation. He is in construction so I just tweaked it and put his name has X-deputy duty, that I was from the Human Resources department and I was sending a letter of recommendation from his last job as a janitor. Mind you he has never been a janitor like I said he is in construction but I was so pissed for him acting like a fake! That I completely switched from my normal loving caring person into this person that just wanted him to pay for what he did. I called clients that I knew he was using as some sort of fuel but eventually he went away. I could never figure out why he just disappeared and never got revenge (trust me I didn’t want him to) but I heard so many stories of course he was playing the victim but he did some things to other women like send them Tiffany’s box with a piece of his crap in it with a note that said “you know your a real piece of shit” amongst other things. I told him if he ever got nasty or vengeful with me he would regret it, then I took those above actions and I just recently heard from him by email asking me if I still lived in the State where we are from but I ignored it. I know they don’t like that either. Finally, I came back to my senses and this sense of taking revenge on him went away. I hate that! That I could act that way but at the time I could not stop myself. Well if anyone needs a good laugh (which indeed is not funny, and I don’t recommend it) because you could get seriously hurt by some. I’m just glad this one never again bothered me except for the recent email that went unanswered by yours truly.

  4. Violetta says:

    I really need to work on my understanding of these categories. I had thought SuperEmpaths were at one end of the continuum, all empath all the time, normal people somewhere in he middle, and narcs at the other end.

    Apparently, co-dependents are at that end, and to narcs they are all strawberry all the time, therefore soon boring.

    So what distinguishes SuperEmpaths from normal people, if they are both a mix of empath and narc qualities? If I understand correctly, it’s a question of intensity, not proportion. A normal who is 50% empathic and 50% may involve 50% of an ounce. A SuperEmpath may involve 50% of a metric fuck-ton: in other words, Princess Diana. Strawberry over here, cinnamon sprinkles over there, death by chocolate at that end, and a lethal stream of butterscotch lava. HG has said the Charles is a narc, but I don’t think he’s a very high-functioning one. He didn’t have a clue how to deal with Diana’s tantrums; he seems to have been more annoyed by them or even indignant than getting off on the fuel.

    If I’ve got this wrong, please advise. I’m still trying to get a handle on all this.

    1. Dolores Haze says:

      It actually broke my heart to realize that both Charles and Camilla are narcissists sucking other people’s (and each other’s) fuel and showing no empathy for all the hearts and lives they have broken and twisted during their decades-long narcissistic relationship. I honestly thought they have an incredibly beautiful, fairytale-like love story despite all the obstacles (operative words being “incredibly” and “fairytale” aka wrong, sick and fake… haha). More fool me.

  5. Supernova DE says:

    In the familial dynamic, could a Super Empath child sustain a prolonged Supernova against a mid range parent during late teenage years when they are old enough to understand the parent is messed up, but not old enough to escape the household?
    If so, how might this manifest?

    Thank you so much.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Challenging the narcissist´s control.

      1. alexissmith2016 says:

        HG is it possible for a weaponised NISS SE to defeat a mid who thinks he’s a greater (he has a very sadistic streak)? The SE is in an unelected position of power which was not sought out, it simply happened this way due to circumstance. The mid wants this position for himself so that he is the ‘go to’ person.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          In the context you are referring to, how do you regard “defeat” as manifesting?

          1. alexissmith2016 says:

            Well defeat could manifest in many ways.

            The mid would not know the SE was educated by your great self. He could be attempting to make the SE Bugar off through gaslighting , overthrow them threw seditious means so that he is the one in the driving seat and everyone including the SE comes to him or the SE walks away so that everyone comes to him.

            Ultimately it is not a position the SE really sought to be in or particularly cares/cared about being in. It just panned out that way through a series of events and circumstance.

            This SE could easily let the mid take up the position, it would save a lot of hassle in many other ways, not just because of the ensuing battle with this mid.

            But and it’s a very big but, this particular SE happens to be very bloody minded and probably stupid too!

        2. Desirée says:


          So does that mean the SE in question doesn’t want the position of power but does not want the Mid-Ranger to have it either, knowing what he is and what would the desired final outcome be? Keeping Mid-Rangers in check is not too difficult in theory, given their significant facade considerations and lack of insight. The main issue would be the ET of the Empath in question rising as a consequence of repeated exposure to the Mid-Ranger, be it in person or by thinking about him.
          Have you read the part in HG’s Platinum Collection that I recommended to you? That might also help clear some things up with regards to the scenario you describe.

          1. Thanks Desiree. The SE was happy to be in the position but did not seek it. She would not be bothered if someone else had it as she has plenty of other things to do. But she is damned if she’s going to let a twatty little mid take it, even though it would make life so much more simple in every which way lol. I’ve read the platinum collection Desiree – yes very good and helpful too. I found an excellent tip in there which was really helpful in managing this particular situation.

            I kind of know the answer to the above question. It’s – of course. I just wanted to hear HG say it. Jees I probably sound like narcypants now!

          2. I don’t really think that by the way – gritted teeth emoji not displayed here

    2. Just seen this! Blimey – great question. This makes an incredible amount of sense. Ffs hahahah

    3. vandenboss says:

      I could make my father bite his tongue,at will, on the dinner table by using words at age 7 or 8. I could humiliate him in front of family by telling the truth about him in a manner that would make them laugh out loud,scared as they were for him (also a at age 7 or 8 ).
      From age 14 i started saying no to questions he’d asked, like “did you do your homework?’ I’d found out that it did not matter whether i challenged him or not,i would be subjected to his fury anyway.Although i must admit that me challenging him would hardly ever ignite his heated fury.His heated fury seemed,then, to ignite at random,i know now that it did not ignite at random. If you want to hear more…i can go on all day.I remember everything from my childhood. Only not when my father ask me whether i remember like a day at the zoo with ice cream,then i tell him,’no i cant remember.’ -)

  6. mollyb5 says:

    HG ..Can going into super nova mode …land one in jail ?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Depends what you do, but it would be unusual. Going Supernova is unlikely to result in the commission of criminal acts. Of course, if you do so against a Greater, you may well find yourself getting a visit from the investigative authorities but that is the calculated machinations of the Greater at work as a response to the Supernova, to assert control.

      1. mollyb5 says:

        HG. …we both know he isn’t a greater ?

  7. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

    Did Someone call me? Here I be! To the Rescue! Cheers!

  8. cogra002 says:

    Well, I will say the description between the Supernova and mid range resonates the most with my current shituation.
    I have the codependent traits though, too. I definitely fall into the Empathic group but I wont claim to know where

  9. Twisted Heart says:

    When I first read about the Empathic Supernova I thought it was something that happened in a moment, like a big fight, but now I think it’s more long term, especially depending on the length of the relationship. You just stop giving a f#%k until you get yourself out. Oh the wounding that could cause!
    Am I right?
    I like to think that I could quickly go into a Supernova (if I ever got entangled again) now that I’ve become weaponized but I hope I wouldn’t even have to take it that far.

    1. HG Tudor says:


  10. Bibi says:

    Why are the contagions never mentioned? 🙁

    I do know some Supers. What I notice about them is an outer toughness matched with an inward tenderness. They fight for the underdog. If they see someone mistreated, they speak up. I have also noticed that some Mid Rangers tend to not be very fond of them, as the Supers tend to call them out on their bullshit.

    I did fuck with the Mid Ranger’s mind after so many years of his crap and then I sent him a slew of ‘go fuck yourself you worthless cocksucker’ emails, which isn’t very nice of me. Not one of my best moments.

    I’m not a ‘standard’ because I have never been a standard anything. Too many narc traits for codependent, too withdrawn to be a Super, so that leaves contagion.

    I’m an Empath Supernova! Yuk yuk.

    1. Twilight says:


      I go for the throat.

      Jon was a Greater, still is only he is dead to me now.
      I wasn’t doing as he wanted sooooo I basically said fuck you. He is sitting right there and I “don’t see nor acknowledge “ him. I did acknowledge the person sitting next to him, in that moment I felt the rage surge over me like a firestorm. Not once did I show it. I went and sat down near the exit and he came down from the stand he was sitting at and walked by me, what I felt in that moment was something indescribable. I looked up at him and for the briefest first moments he showed me himself with out the mask. Blue eyes changed to black I could see the anger and hatred pouring off of him. Then it was gone.

      I am caring and quiet, push me to far and my claws come out…..when one is focused on the right hand they never see the left.

      1. Bibi says:


        With the Mid Ranger I deliberately ignored his birthday and would ignore his chat messages. Let’s see, I spoke coldly and condescendingly to him a few times (basically the same thing he did to me), triangulated a bit with others who were engaging with me more. ‘So and so and I had such a great conversation, he really gets me, etc.’

        I didn’t even feel badly about doing it b/c by that point I knew what a dick he was. He would then accuse me of abandoning him. Haha! The anger finally boiled up in the end in the fuck you emails.

        Oh and one time I informed him I deleted one of his emails (which I did not bother to read) and told him to shut the fuck up. ‘Just shut the fuck up,’ I said.

        At one point he did tell me that I had a ‘gentle soul’ and a lot of warmth, but he pushed me waaaayyy too far that I just took a giant Supernova shit on him.

        Your last sentence resonates with me.

        1. Twilight says:

          Good morning Bibi

          Ha ha your mirrored back.

          You know when you spoke to him coldly and condescending it was fuel, right?

          I am curious what was your first language?

          1. Bibi says:

            Hey Twilight:

            Well actually, my speaking coldly towards him, without any emotion, actually wounded him because he began to whine how, ‘Now you’re being as cold as you’ve accused me of being!”

            My condescending part was a criticism implying he was not capable of figuring things out on his own.

            The Fuck you! emails were challenge fuel for sure.

            A good measurement is that a Mid Ranger will whine when you wound them and then if you fuel (negative or challenge) them they will be quiet and withdrawn and speak coldly with a hint of authority.

            I was wanting to hurt him back and I didn’t feel any guilt or conscience about it.

          2. Twilight says:

            Hello Bibi

            Why did your body language say to him thou?
            Did you feel how he felt when you did these things?

          3. Bibi says:


            I was better able to covey these narc exchanges electronically. In seeing his face it became much harder for me to do it, as I knew he could lash me with words in an instant. Despite being a Middle Mid, he had the venomous word abilities of a Greater. So I can’t comment on what my body language was when I was making these exchanges. There were so many of them over time and they could range.

            When I wounded him I felt a surge of superiority and power and zero guilt over making him feel small and inferior. I have to say that those exchanges were by far the meanest I have ever been towards someone. And I have known some very nasty people–snitching coworkers, Angels with Dirty Faces, (brown nosers), sociopath bosses, all whom I despised, but I was able to contain my loathing around them.

            With this guy, I reached an absolute boiling point. I wanted to hurt him the way he hurt me, but it didn’t work of course, as it only made me feel worse.

      2. kaydiva3 says:

        Twilight: OMG I saw the evil black eyes too! I was with a MMRN and I once looked away while he was talking. His eyes turned black, which I didn’t even know was possible, and his usually warm sweet voice turned into a malicious hiss. It was so scary. Only ever seen that with a narc.

        1. Twilight says:

          Hello kaydiva3

          The first time I ever saw another’s eyes turn black was my husband. He was a ULN.

      3. Renarde says:


        I once saw PN (GCN) change in exactly the same way as you described.

        I don’t scare easily but that was the most frightening thing I have ever seen in another human being. Do you think it’s related to them being older? PN was in his early 70’s.

        1. Twilight says:

          Hello Renarde

          Jon was 38 when this happened. I do not believe age has anything to do with it, yet awareness and control.

          That wasn’t the most frightening thing I have ever seen, taking pleasure in the destruction of another’s mind was.

          1. Renarde says:


            That’s awful.

          2. Twilight says:


            I learned I had to hide being a Contagion, I could never completely hide the fact I am an Empath thou.

          3. Renarde says:


            That is intresting!

          4. Twilight says:


            What is interesting?

          5. Renarde says:


            That you can hide your school.

          6. Twilight says:


            Do you understand what makes a contagion a contagion?

          7. Renarde says:


            I have my understanding. Which is how Empaths actually sense energy.

            What’s your understanding?

            Maybe we are talking about two different concepts.

          8. BonnieLou says:

            Yep, mine was 27!

      4. emc2gion says:

        I have had someone very close to me say “you always go for the jugular” so I really appreciate your comment Twilight it has helped me immensely. For a long time this bothered me, it was a battle between am I a narc, and in good consciousness I cannot stand down. I used to worry about the black eyed stare, because my own eyes are black(indigenous blood)and I didn’t want to be like them. It wasn’t until I found HG that this made sense. To me the black eyed stare is more than just colour, it’s the direct strength of negative energy that is acutely magnified from the pupil…the wider the pupil the more focused that energy is on the target.
        I am reclusive, quiet and loving, but like you Twilight when I get pushed too far….that’s it. It takes a lot to get to that point, I’m more just wanting balance and simplicity. I’m also a contagion….I have found it is a gift and yet a curse. The more I understand about energy, grounding etc the more my ability to cope has increased. I also hide the fact I am a contagion. It’s only when I feel I will greatly help others that I allow people to see glimpses. One strategy I used from a child was avoiding eye contact. If it’s hard to hide, and it’s an extended period of time, I need a lot of time alone to regain balance.

    2. Renarde says:


      I hear you lovely but from a scientific point of view, diagnosing yourself through the elimination of the other schools is not a robust enough way. Especially with a school as rare as contagion.

      Personally, I think you’re a standard. But only HG will know for sure.

      1. Bibi says:

        Thanks for considering my classification, Renarde. I am glad I don’t seem like a damn Mid Ranger! Nothing worse than being something and unable to know what you are!

        The belief in the contagion element comes with my heightened sensitivity. I am very HSP. My mom (who is a Standard) said to me years ago, before I knew anything about narcissism/empaths that she thought I might be HSP and when I took the test my score was nearly 100%

        I am very sensitive to aesthetics, lighting, mood in a room, and seeing others’ physical injuries will cause a physical jolt through my body. I have to withdraw because too many sensory experiences overwhelm me. It’s very strange.

        It is true though that I like the thought of being rare. 🙂 Any reason in particular that makes me seem like a Standard? Thank you for your comment though.

        1. Renarde says:


          No, never thought you were a narc for a minute. They just don’t ever stay long before their fury is ignited and off they spiral.

          “I am very sensitive to aesthetics, lighting, mood in a room, and seeing others’ physical injuries will cause a physical jolt through my body”

          Rooms need not be lovely and not bland or boring. I hate bright lights and once had a very funny turn in Boots. I absolutely get what you mean on the jolt. Had that since very small and have only in the last week finally spoken about it to another living soul. This was in a conversation about the raising of kundalini energy which I have always had since small (dropped off after adolescence, never to return).

          Raising kundalini, managing it, the chakras and control of it is essential to the understanding of Contagion but that’s just my view.

          I know I have a strand. I would be not surprised if you have one too.

          As to why standard; that’s the one that you reacted against. Actually, I think it’s probably one of the best ones to deal with and own. I really do. You can be empathic without being overdependent and you dont have the difficult to manage narc traits. Pure Contagion? Goddess only knows.

          No worries by the way. I do enjoy reading your posts!

          1. Bibi says:

            Thank you Renarde, and I enjoy yours as well. Of course I would have to know more to be certain, but were I a Standard I would be fine with it. But that is funny you mention that–I reacted against that one. Not me! No! From what you’re saying there sounds like there is more to Contagion than I actually know.

          2. Renarde says:


            I think that’s true of a lot of us on Contagion, actually.

    3. EmP says:

      Bibi, I am a SE (I know because I took the Empath Detector) and I have Contagion traits as well. The Empath Detector consultation comes with a nice little pie chart. You see your ‘make-up’ in percentages. Amazing.

      Anyway, yes, MRNs do seem to be jealous of SEs. They are fucking cowards, after all, and SEs are generally strong, brave and courageous.
      In my experience: MRNs admire you at first, then envy kicks in and they start seething, hating you ferociously for the very things they admired in the beginning!

      Oh wait, ferociously is too strong a word for a MRN..

      1. Bibi says:


        Interesting note about the pie charts. That makes sense that people would be a blending of several things, and not just one. Did your results surprise you? (And by SE I assume you mean Super, rather than Standard?)

        1. EmP says:

          Bibi, yes I mean Super Empath and yes, the results did surprise me. For example, I thought I had some Carrier traits – according to the Empath Detector I have NONE.

          1. Bibi says:

            That is interesting. I don’t believe I have much Carrier traits myself.

    4. Jasmine once upon a time says:

      I was looking for that still unwritten (ehm) post about the contagion empath too. That’s why I’m trolling the blog today hg.

      Will we ever ever get to read it? Please please please, pretty please with sugar on top?

      *bats lashes*

      Thank you for mentioning the name bibi. All I could picture was green. Glad I didn’t pop up again talking about green empaths. I look crazy enough

      1. Bibi says:


        As per HG, we all know he has to keep us waiting and wanting. It is true though, Contagion is the one empath that does not have an article. (The underdog, probably another reason I like the thought of it.)

  11. Liza says:

    I think i’m some sort of failed codependent, i feel verry unconfortable whenever someone start to display their attachement to me or that they have a good idea of me, because then i’m placed in a position where i can desapoint them, and then i become verry unatural and start to porposefully display my bad sides as a way to tell them to manage their expectations.
    but i don’t have the masochistic side, actually i have a verry low emotional pain threshold, i get verry easilly offended and angry, i just play calm and don’t express it, because when i’m upset my tears come first and i’m disgusted with my weakness and feel that i lost all credibility.

  12. BL says:

    I’m curious when you say the supernova wounds the narcissist over and over, do you mean that they typically mirror what the narc has done to them (silent treatments, lies, word salads, etc), or is it calling them out on their BS, or actual criticisms like “you’re not that good looking and you’re not so great in bed”?! Great post!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      They wound by usually not doing certain things, therefore that causes wounding. An example would be walking away from an argument, failing to turn up to something, forgetting to send a birthday car or greeting.
      Criticisms as you describe are Challenge Fuel.

  13. Gypsy Heart says:

    I am so in my head about all of this right now. Feel like in the stages of grief I had reached acceptance, but right now back in the throes of anger, maybe even denial. Angry today….listening to Three Days Grace, if that tells you anything. “Just Like You”

    I have either gone through what this article is describing, or I need to do a narc detector instead of empath detector on myself. HG does say some narcissists think they are empaths and I dont feel things the way normal people do. I have spent my entire life with narcissists. My father taught me that I must strive to be the best at everything (he demanded of me). When there is a challenge “it is on like Donkey Kong” I am highly competitive. I learned from the best. Want to do word salad? Ok Im game! I can do passive agressive in my sleep. Manipulation….let’s do it! I can be quite witty with that too.

    I butted heads for quite some time with Ex-N # 3. The last conversation I had sounded just like the mid ranger in this article with him pleading for me to stop. I lost though and was fired from my job. Just listened to “Chalk Outline ” and thats how i feel. No job/income and have isolated myself away from everyone. Luckily I had some money to access so I can live for a few months before falling into financial ruin.

    I spoke with a friend today that I worked with and she is going through bullying at work now too (i feel horrible thinking it might be because she’s friends with me). She says my ex that I had an affair with has set his sights on a new employee. This song is certainly fitting for him “I Am Machine”. Three Days Grace certainly has plenty of angry songs that fit narcissism.

    Is it wrong that I crave this kind of relationship? It’s all I know. Somehow I feel as if the best parts of me have slipped away. Just sending these thoughts out into the great void, usually addressing the moon though. It has such a lonely pull for me.

  14. NotMe! says:

    I listened to this article on youtube and shied from the idea of this slightly mystical sounding phenomenon. On reflection, while I can relate to the ‘enough is enough’ moment (for me it came not during a manipulation but as I reached for a bottle of wine instead of a cup of tea, and felt dread at an impending conversation with him) which sort of stopped me in my tracks. I’ve wondered about 2 things in relation to this. The first, is whether certain empaths have stronger boundaries, which whilst stretched by the abuse and manipulation, remain intact – like an elastic band perhaps, which suddenly snaps back into shape. Or perhaps in my case it was that I was at a distance (although the headf***ing still had me bewildered). From that time onwards, I found myself unwillinging even to answer ‘how are you this evening?’ with anything other than ‘I’m ok thanks, how are you?’ This seemed to disquiet him and he would return to this question and others about how I felt. He’d say ‘this disturbs me or I don’t know what to do with this’. Pushed hard enough, I’d say ‘I don’t want to talk about it thanks, I don’t think you’re interested, why don’t you tell me how you are’. The second, I’m still thinking about. I’d be interested to know what eureka moments other people experienced.

    1. NotMe! says:

      The second thing I was trying to unravel in relation to this shift that I felt, was on reflection, something like the Transference that happens in a therapeutic relationship. When one person (A)(hopefully the therapist) is left with emotions that they can recognise as belonging to the other person (B). Talking on the phone, I’d feel angry for no reason and say ‘I’m tired I need to go to bed’ and end the conversation or during text conversations, I’d feel anxious suddenly and say, ‘I’ve got visitors I have to go, maybe catch up tomorrow’. Of course the next day I’d get silent treatment but not send any messages and then ‘I’m off out later, and won’t be available so have a nice evening xx’ It felt like I was taking back control rather than manipulating him though and did not understand about wounding or challenging. He said things like ‘this strategy of disengaging is only increasing the perceived distance between us darling, you don’t seem like you’ and I’d think ‘oh do fuck off’. I didn’t know he was a narc until a month later when I ended it and found this site. I suppose I’m wrestling with understanding this as I want to understand how the narc goggles came off and I finally saw the enirmous flags that I’d ignored for 2 years. So as never to get mired in it again.

    2. Renarde says:

      “I dont feel things the way normal people do. I have spent my entire life with narcissists. My father taught me that I must strive to be the best at everything (he demanded of me). When there is a challenge “it is on like Donkey Kong” I am highly competitive. I learned from the best. Want to do word salad? Ok Im game! I can do passive agressive in my sleep. Manipulation….let’s do it! I can be quite witty with that too.”

      I could have written almost all of this except I did not see what PN was doing was unbelievably manipulative because he’s a G. Mum (LVN) was the one who would yell, hit, scratch, pull me around, and when I tried to hide, pull me out from furniture and slap me. I was very frightened of her when I was 5. PN had his moments but nothing on the scale of her. I was largely too good an appliance to risk physically damaging.

      All abusive home environments work the trick of isolation. I am sure it was no different to you to.

      You are describing the splitting and folding back of the mind. Feeling lost, at sea. Actually the sea is a very good metaphor as it rules the psyche. As does the moon. Hence you addressing the moon.

      “Is it wrong that I crave this kind of relationship? It’s all I know. ”

      No. It is what it is. Is it wise or sensible? No. I know you know that.

      “Somehow I feel as if the best parts of me have slipped away.”

      Oh lovely, they have not. Childhood abuse leaves us with some very strange thoughts about ourselves. These need to be worked through and put in their allotted new shiny places. Then you can decide which characteristics to work on.

      You know, I found that after my breakdown in March 18, it wasn’t just finally coming to the conclusion of what the marriage had been, I finally felt the emotional impact of my parents actions.

      “Just sending these thoughts out into the great void, usually addressing the moon though. It has such a lonely pull for me.”

      Keep doing that. You’re speaking to your subconscious.

      Oh final point. There is one medical conditions that may mimic a supernova, PTSD.

      1. Gypsy Heart says:

        Thank you Renarde,

        You are very understanding. I think you have had similar experiences as mine. I really appreciate your advice. I was very angry when I wrote this and actually wished it hadn’t gone through in hindsight. Thank you for bringing up the PTSD. I have had a lot of recent traumas that have turned my world upside down. I can have tunnel vision sometimes. It makes more sense that this is what could be affecting me right now. I felt like I was turning into a narcissist, but from reading HGs work I know that is not possible. It would have to be there since childhood.

        I am sorry that you had those experiences as a child Renarde. It sounds awful. Thank you so much for your kind words.

        1. Renarde and Gypsy Heart. Regarding women obtaining a diagnosis of PTSD. There is a major military veteran hospital in NYC, where I live, and it is also a research hospital. And the mental practitioners here, for whatever reason, are very reluctant to diagnose military women with PTSD, versus diagnosing the military men with PTSD, when the women believe they have PTSD, and women do know about the PTSD affliction more in the military than in various other walks of life and in other fields that women find themselves. Because the men obtain this diagnosis often enough, in the same arena, and it is spoken about a lot, around the women, and the women reflect on it. Now, if I were to make a guess regarding why military men receive the PTSD diagnosis when they apply, and then the resulting monetary pensions that come along with the diagnosis from the military, more often than the women in the military receive the PTSD diagnosis when they apply, my guess is that mostly men are often in charge of the diagnosis, and (1) the PTSD that affects the women is often the result, the women report, of maltreatment that they received from men, while in the military, (2) while the PTSD that men usually say afflict them, men say, is the result of various aspects of battle conditions/training in the military. (3) And the military is extremely desirous of presenting itself as female safe and the military wants parents to feel safe when their daughters enlist in the military, and (4) not fear that their daughters especially will be returned to them with tragically a diagnosis of PTSD. Also, the mental practitioner field, even in civilian life, at the top executive levels that determine policy, is still male dominated. And the reluctance is also there to provide women with that diagnosis of PTSD. Why? Because it looks bad on society for their women to have PTSD. And it is more palatable to society to think of women with: A little hysteria. A little depresion. A need for a few more vitamins. And, maybe some (often dangerous) iron tablets for possible anemia because of their monthlies. This is all that society latently wants and is comfortable with women to be bothered over and afflicted by. Because, If women are not safe in any given society, and the word gets out that said society abuses its women, that society looks very bad. Thus we have the resisted diagnosis such as or similar to PTSD for women, a condition that is more often than not, caused by male maltreatment of females. It looks bad. And it points a finger at society at all levels from the Parents to the entire family unit involved altogether, and to the schools, to the many religions around and about, and law enforcement, and all the way to the governing bodies over such localities where the abuse is occuring. They all 6 look bad. And we can pretty much forget about many men obtaining an official medical diagnosis of PTSD especially due to his being maltreated by females. Though rare cases could be on the books. Rare, being the operative word. Because big boys do not cry nor complain, right? Just some ideas that come to my mind.

          1. cont. Regarding society and PTSD. Those that rule are responsible for our safety. Once I had a bizarre identification problem, and I had to use check cashing usury places, for years, to cash my paychecks because I did not have enough of the required formal I.D. to open a bank account because the govt. could not locate my birth certificate on their computers, and this was post the 9/11 terror attack in NYC, when many laws regarding I.D. had changed they informed me, and the banks were regulated to become very strict. Bizarre! Because I had so much I.D. in sum. I even refused to leave the country, because what if I could not return, I said to myself (they finally found my birth certificate after 5 long years of their searching…sigh). Anyway, before they found my birth certificate, I cashed my paycheck at one of those check cashing places, and when I returned home, my money somehow was gone. All of it. Every last dollar. The check cashing place was only a few blocks from where I lived at the time. I started crying in the lobby of my building when I looked in my purse, and I do not remember exactly what happened, because I was so upset, but the police were called by someone on my behalf where I lived and the police came to my apartment, and they asked me what happened exactly, and I told them and I filled out a report on a form that they had brought with them, and about a month later, my city, NYC, sent me a check for half or so of the money that was stolen from me. Why? Because they are responsible to keep us safe. Even if we are not fully aware of what extent they are responsible. I was so shocked that the city sent me that replacement money. Little do I know about all our rights, but we do have them, and to be safe from all enemies both foreign and domestic, including our own family members, loved ones, and friends and frenemies, when unfortunately necessary, is part of our rights, whether or not we know this.

          2. Gypsy Heart says:

            Interesting PSE,

            So sad that this is the case with regard to women in the military or even men being abused by women. It is sad to think there are those out there that have truly been through trauma and are denied diagnoses and help based on stigma.

        2. Renarde says:


          My pleasure. A few things just picking out randomly

          “Thank you for bringing up the PTSD. I have had a lot of recent traumas that have turned my world upside down. I can have tunnel vision sometimes.”

          I really recognise ‘tunnel vision’. I had that as I was exiting my big formal relationship. Looking back, I CANNOT believe I made the decisions I made which were fucking ludicrous and went utterly against my own best interests in such a fundamental way that if an external observer saw the facts, they would assume I had been lobotomised.

          Is it worth you checking out if you have it as well?

          “I was very angry when I wrote this and actually wished it hadn’t gone through in hindsight.”

          I think what you had written is perfectly fine and understandable given what you have been through.

          Thanks for your words about my childhood. It’s come back to royally bite me again. Will I ever learn?

  15. evilmuskhat says:

    My wife is a super empath. HG, I’m still waiting for you to provide a full breakdown of the empath schools, cadres and bolt ons which you promised.

  16. LambTolion says:


    What kind of “ dire consequences “ ??

    1. HG Tudor says:

      The loss of the appliance from the fuel matrix through escape.

  17. NarcAngel says:

    Hey Old Hand, Irreverent Upstart here looking forward to The Cliff article in time. Also, QUIT HIDING MY TONGS!!!

    1. K says:

      Ha ha ha…I am gonna go with positive challenge fuel re: your comment.

    2. Twilight says:

      Ha ha NarcAngel

      I told HG Dont do, to something regarding to something I said……hmmm I wonder if it go me on the step.

  18. NarcAngel says:

    Drinking game.

    A drink for every comment that announces they are a SuperNova Empath. If I’m not drunk by morning we will have made considerable progress.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Indeed, they do spring up still.

    2. BL says:

      I think we all WANT to be supernovas so we can say the narc has met his match, but in reality all we can do is dream. 😂

      1. HG Tudor says:

        You cannot be a supernova BL, it is an event, not a person.

        1. NarcAngel says:

          There’s the first shot downed.

        2. BL says:

          Ah, misunderstood from NarcAngel’s drinking game. 🍻

    3. Twilight says:

      Narc Angel

      I was kicked out of a support group for saying there is no such thing as a SuperNova Empath.
      Apparently I struck a nerve…..

      1. K says:

        No surprise there. I have read about Super Empaths but there is no SNE that I am aware of.

        1. Twilight says:

          Hello K

          There isn’t a SNE, It is an action that happens or I may want to put it a response to an action.
          I know many believe they have had a SN when it is a reaction to the sustained abuse they have been exposed to. I am beginning to believe an SN is a response not a reaction to the manipulation being doled out.

          1. K says:

            I agree; perhaps we will learn more about the SN Event in the upcoming article: The Cliff.

          2. Twilight says:

            Hello K

            I do look forward to that article and the Contagion Empath.
            Hope you doing well.

          3. K says:

            Hello Twilight
            I am doing quite well, thank you, and I hope all is well with you.

          4. Twilight says:

            Hello K

            Doing good well, just busy with life and enjoying it.

      2. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

        Twilight: It is really becoming scary on a lot of sites and groups these days. I am sorry they did that to you, just because you told them the truth that they misunderstood the usage of SuperNova. I was on 2 sites last year trying to see what was going on with Meghan Markle’s outfits as the newly minted Duchess of Sussex, that is all, just to check out her clothing choices, and people were being banned left and right for almost anything they said that the moderators deemed negative at all about her. Constant chastisings and warnings were all over the place. I said to myself, what is this? I never posted on neither site, it was to risky, even to ask about some item she was wearing, and finally I felt so stifled from what I was witnessing, that I left both sites and never posted, not even one time, on either. These are the days of extreme touchiness and insecurity and political correctness. Whew! Anyway, if I have style type questions now, I have Desiree and Lorelei, etc. to ask. So, I`m good.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          They are most likely run by narcissists showing their need to exhibit control.

          1. Dearest HG: Oh my goodness. You are so right! HG, I am embarrassed to admit that I never thought that women moderators could be unaware Narcissists. Not once did this thought cross my mind, at all. I usually just feel confused regarding certain behaviours, at times, on various female moderated sites. Now, I perceive that I have a bias: My bias is that only men are often unaware Narcissists running various websites. However, women can also be unaware Narcissists, as well, on their own sites: I have to remember this. Good grief. And, this fact now does explain quite a few odd things, etc., that I have observed on various websites ran by women over the years. And women can be quite ruthless. And`More Deadlier Than The Male,` at times, as it is often said. The learning never ends. `Scientia Sit Potentia,` as you say, HG. Thank you.

        2. Twilight says:

          Hello PSE

          Thank you, I can take it. It shows no reflection of who I am. I have been amused by being blocked and booted by people and sites.

        3. Violetta says:

          PSE: I’ve seen this on some aspiring writer sites and celebrity gossip sites. Unlike HG, they don’t tell you upfront they’re narcs, if they even know it. Like you, I stopped lurking when I saw a few people get blasted for posts. It’s like they’re all run by someone who couldn’t be Regina George as a teenager and is making up for it now.

          1. Violetta: Getting Blasted! hahaha! That is a good way to describe the incredibly and unnecessarily harsh reader blocking and banning and harping and screeching going on within some of those sites that are ran by unaware female Narcissists and unaware male Narcissists. They blast away people off their sites as if people were ducks on a spinning wheel at a carnival and at a circus, or as if people were popup images on a shooting range. Such moderators are like snipers on those sites of theirs, blasting off hapless readers, over any and every little thing. lol. Mean Girls, at last!! and Male Terminators, finally! hahaha. But, they do not end up with the smartest people on their sites, like the so many smart people that are on here. They turn their nervously surviving readers into sheep. And sheep are meant to be eaten. Some of those moderators need to be chained and tied up and with toothpicks holding up their eyelids, and they need to be forced to watch how tolerant HG Tudor is, until someone that is a guest on his site is just too overly uncouth to be permitted to re-enter on here. And even then, HG still gives some of them more chances to behave themselves, after he allows them time to cool off and reconsider their ways, and then return on here, probationary. I have seen it. HG handles all of this very admirably on his site. Those other sites? Hahahaha. No way.They are Sniper City! With cyber Hollow Point Bullets and Full Metal Jackets and Hand Grenades. No Kevlar vest will save one for long, on those sites. I, thankfully, have walked away on my own 2 feet, so far, and I have never been carried out on a stretcher, nor in a body bag, as of yet. So Scary.

        4. Lorelei says:

          Awe this is so sweet Princess! It’s best to bounce ideas off people. I use my best work friend a lot for ideas and she also asks me questions or sends me pics of clothes to determine colors. I don’t go to stores often except for the grocery as I get all I can from Amazon. BUT the store clerks will dress you and pick things out—and their ideas are often a great medley of brilliance.

      3. NarcAngel says:

        Hi Twilight
        Makes you wonder if they actually read the articles.

        1. Twilight says:

          Hello NarcAngel

          I always wonder when they are quoting HG inaccurately. I was close to telling them I am a Contagion Empath just to see how they responded. An image of the Witch trails comes to mind thou.

      4. Alexissmith2016 says:

        Hahhaa that’s hilarious twilight! Really made me laugh

        1. Twilight says:


          It isn’t the first time and I seriously doubt it will be the last time.
          It is amusing thou.

      5. Renarde says:


        You should see the reactions I get when I gently suggest that the diagnosis of BPD might be the result of abuse.

        Honestly, It was like throwing florescent narc painted words over the forum and switching off the lights. I perceived that the people who were shouting the loudest where the ones that had NPD and hiding under a differential diagnosis.

        So many narcs using legitimate health complaints to hide their abuse of people. And it’s all done instinctively too!

        1. Twilight says:


          I have often wonder if due to the ignorance of not only the medical community yet society that many are misdiagnosed under a different diagnosis.

          1. Renarde says:


            That has been my mind a lot lately. How can so many people walking around with undiagnosed PTSD exist. Mad exs called BPD when theyve been abused.

            Writing a few days ago. First step, acknowledge you’ve been abused. Second, start to reach out bearing in mind a proportion will call you a liar in all but name. Expect serious flaws in the system which will ACTIVELY PROHIBIT you seeking mental health help.

            Why should a victim of crime be treated like they are a criminal? Thinking on this now. WE here are awake. We can see that 95% of those narcs are using all aspects of the system to instinctively cover their tracks. Be it law, health, the courts, the government! Cos those fuckers aren’t aware they gave the perfect plausible denyability! The other 5% tinker at the edges.

            There is a reason we cannot get help for our mental health, if people ACTUALLY got better society would be in crisis. MH system is deliberately kept broken to prevent the scale of NPD coming out.

          2. Twilight says:


            I believe it is the disconnection of people why People see the victim as the one to blame. We don’t rely on each other anymore to survive. Ones narcissistic traits kicks in, if it isn’t affecting me I don’t care.

          3. Lorelei says:

            Twilight—I pretty much keep my mouth shut. Only a few close friends know about any of this. It’s all so out there I’m mortified. Yet, I should not be but it is what it is. A few people know a little more frankly than I’d like—the whole victim thing is unappealing. I’m often in a state of disbelief at how it all fits and makes sense though.

          4. Twilight says:


            Shame is usually one reason why so many stay quiet, then the questioning of ourselves. The whys, not to mention dealing with those who will not understand our emotions were hijack. The battle within will always be the hardest one we fight, dealing with both external and internal influences.
            There are a few things I wish no one knew and I can not believe I actually “knew” yet I didn’t want to accept the truth and lied to myself to keep from throwing up. I was young and inexperienced.

          5. Twilight says:

            Hello Renarde

            “There is a reason we cannot get help for our mental health, if people ACTUALLY got better society would be in crisis. MH system is deliberately kept broken to prevent the scale of NPD coming out. “

            What you wrote has been weighing on my mind, I disagree with you on if people actually got better society would be in a crisis….we already are. People are blind to what their realities are vs what is.
            I do agree the MH system is deliberately being kept broken to not only prevent the scale of NPD coming out yet breeding more, keeping things in constant chaos and control in the hands of those behind the scenes.

          6. Renarde says:

            Hey Twilight

            Thank you for your comment and reassurance that others’ think that and it’s not me going utterly bonkers!

            Didn’t respond last night as I wanted to make sure I totally understood your comment. Which I think I do now.

            Yup so essentially, if I read you right… we are both thinking that society is fucked now and access to MH support is being deliberately obfuscated.

            If we REALLY raise awareness than society will be COMPLETELY fucked. Total and utter breakdown as when it hits that Empaths and to a certain extent the normals have been duped; I honestly shudder to imagine the import.

            Oh you’re last point about people being deliberately being kept in chaos has just triggered something I read on here last night.

            Oh fuck now, what was it about???

            HG, did it involve you? Someone said a comment about a bloke in the media, considered an idiot. But he had deliberately created chaos around himself so he could sail through it all. Essentially divide and conquer. Someone help!

            You might be very amused Twilight that when I started to write this post, I’d stuck on a big Queen playlist. Under Pressure came on. Never really listened to the lyrics before but my God. I suggest you do.

            Mercury and Bowie were rum ‘un’s. Hedonists. Bad stuff never stuck to them. Even to either of their ends. Absolute geniuses. Adore Sir Brian ‘I like dust!’ of May as well.

            BTW, the other day you asked me for my interpretation of contagion. I gave it.

            May I ask what yours is?

          7. Twilight says:

            Hello Renarde

            My interpretation is my perspective considering I am confirmed by HG as a Contagion Empath. I was insulted when he told me at first due to I associated it with the Ebola virus, my reaction to it was “like the Ebola virus” he laughed and told me to think about it. One thing I admire about HG he teaches via the obvious and not so obvious.

            Why do you believe HG calls the Contagion Empath by the term Contagion.

            Our sensitivity to the energy around us is heightened, one difference is our awareness and being able to interpret it.

          8. Renarde says:

            Hey Twilight

            You push me. I like that.

            Yeah agreed. Contagion word is…difficult. Its redolent. Ebola also thrusts itself to mind.

            Your last sentence caught me. We are heightened. I know things. I peaked at 5. Man, the things in my head then. Then a big duvet was pulled over my head. My doing. I’ve been steadily removing the blanket in fits and starts.

            Have I removed my blanket utterly? No. Like HG, I know there are blind spots. That’s where the fuckers will attempt egress. I can see them all of excepting the Greaters. I have the ability to see some of the Gs. But not all.

            Now missus, you have challenged me so I will challenge you (with good intention). Do you know OUR version of ‘The Game’?

            Love talking to you BTW!

          9. Twilight says:

            Hello Renarde

            The game is an illusion.

            I have mentioned before I brought Jon to his knees, he is a Greater.
            How do you think I did such a thing? Or do you believe it is my emotional thinking convincing me I did such?

          10. Renarde says:


            I have no idea. No idea at all.

            I do hope you did though.

          11. Twilight says:


            I do, and I paid the consequences for my actions.
            My anger blinded me in the moment, in my situation looking through him and walking away would have proven a better choice of action.

          12. Renarde says:


            I agree, walking away is by far the better option. I’ve read ‘Revenge’ which I found fascinating but I will not put any of it into practise.

            Indeed, I received a very clear message the other day when thoughts of revenge sprang into my mind and was told a very firm ‘No’ which I will head. Life is too short and my own soul is precious. It needs to be kept in tact.

            I’ve been incredibly fortunate that I am in good health and of sound mind. Many who tangle aren’t so lucky.

            I’ve read some of your story, it sounds horrific. Did you make a full recovery?

          13. Twilight says:


            The best revenge is looking through them and walking away and implementing a firm no contact, if anyone has ever gotten one over on a Greater they don’t brag about it as if they (the Greater did nothing in return).

          14. Twilight says:


            Ha ha I hit send before I was done.

            I am of sound mind, excellent health and fully recovered. The reality of things is even thou what he put me through was hell he forced me to face my greatest fear and overcome it, sadly when I forced him to face his greatest fear he proved he will never overcome yet let it continue to control him.

            Who “won” ?

            I have a deeper understanding because of HG and the consults and believe I use it to my advantage today, I will never be ensnared again because only a Greater could accomplish such a thing and I am not stupid enough to stick around long enough for it to happen.

          15. Twilight says:


            I enjoy talking with you, your perspective on the Empath / Narcissist dynamic I find interesting.
            I also believe we have experienced many similarities with HGs kind.

          16. Renarde says:


            I think we have too!

            BTW, I have been wondering if it’s possible to have a spiritual PTSD. I think I may have experienced this and it took me 7 years to recover. I’m ok now. It was another Empath (natural and brilliant psychic) who plugged me back in. A few months after that I found NS.

          17. K says:

            Correct. Many NPD children are misdiagnosed.

          18. Twilight: Also, problems in society are a latent and obvious criticism of those that are ruling. That is why rulers constantly love to say such lies as, crime is down (when they actually change the criteria regarding what they call a crime when they can get away with it), that education and math scores are up (when it is obvious that many young people can not perform the critical thinking and the essential math necessary to live their lives), that murder is down, (when they do not count the people that die a week or so, later, or in another state, after a murderous event, and such other deceptive methods of accounting), that the stock market is up (not counting all the people that permanently lost money, and most of their wealth, by just focusing on the market score as they want to at any given timeframe, and the people and businesses that are still left in the market, etc.), that more people are computer savvy (not mentioning that many people are using computers in ways that harm them such as excessive use of this and that and the other, like never before, and many can not afford them once they malfunction or the general cost increases, and on and on and on). Likewise, mental illness is also a criticism of those that are ruling. Overall, illness will also be downplayed with various methods, as well, by those ruling. And illness and addictions will also be politicized and socialized as well by the rulers, with determinations made as to what addictions and illnesses and substances involved will be called diseases, or resolved by calling people just weak willed or just saying the ailment is imaginary or not credible, etc., at any given time. The sands continue to shift in these matters by the rulers and their social and political agendas. Such as the rulers unfairly sentencing many people to life in prison and such for crack, but providing treatment to other people for heroin, 2 products that I hear are from the same plant and or general formulation, etc. The games are always being played by such rulers. A woman has hysteria and uncalled for depression, while a man has PTSD and such things. So the battle regarding NPD and how to fight it is HUGE, and includes how it will be `packaged,` and `marketed,` because, whom is to blame and whom will be assisted, or not assissted, in politics and in society, etc., is ALWAYS on the minds of the rulers regarding their agendas concerning: The Policy of Illness.

          19. Twilight says:

            Hello PSE

            I thought about what you said in the first part of your comment.
            I don’t believe children are being taught how to think yet what to think, now add technology which triggers addictions of a different nature when used in a manner not intended to serve a persons good. It renforcés isolation and disconnect yet people “believe” the illusion we are more connected today.

            If people actually researched they would see the many holes in the net being weaved around them, yet that would mean one needs to step out of the box they are comfortable in.

          20. (cont.) And here is another one: One group of children are labeled as overactive and put on Lithium, while another group of children are labeled as gifted and given the best of everything in a school system, although exhibiting the same alert behaviour as the group labeled overactive and then drugged, just because the children are from different zip codes. I have seen all of this. And then, sometimes, parents move to a different neighborhood either because the parents moved up or moved down, socially, politically and economically, and now, the same child once labeled as overactive is placed in the gifted classes, and the same child once labeled as gifted is labeled as overactive, and placed in the `disabled` classes, and the shocked parents fight this odd change in labeling (the labeling of their child now as overactive) and said parents write to their congressperson, etc. to prevent this label being now applied to their once gifted labeled, child, to remove this label, and also to prevent their child from being drugged. Zip Code Symphonies in illness diagnosis management. Unbelievable.

          21. (correction) I said crack usage versus *heroine usage stigmas and imprisonment in society. *However, I meant crack usage versus Cocaine usage: One group (crack users) is often imprisoned and the other group (cocaine users) is often provided with medical treatment, and there are even more disturbing peculiarities of other such illness policies of those that rule in these arenas, that will also impact on expanding the NPD diagnosis. And if such people determine that the illness of NPD is incurable, with also practically a 100% recidivism rate, these people with a NPD diagnosis will face the possibility of being mandated to be registered publically, just like sex offenders are being registered more and more, yes? Who knows. It’s Complicated.

          22. Lorelei says:

            Princess—I could say so much about this zip code thing. I work with a very poor population and public health initiatives as an umbrella is so essential to this population. These people often live brutal lives and many are nice, kind and grateful. I am always bringing hygiene supplies in because needs are that rudimentary. I really have a soft spot for two prostitutes in general. Tons of heroin and crack. Highest STI rates in the state..

          23. Liza says:

            we can’t do that with people who have NPD, you can’t punish someone only because there is a possibility some day they will do something bad, the possibility exists even with a non NPD person as well.
            i don’t especially bear narcissist in my heart but i’m verry unconfortable with the idea that they should be treated more severly than any other individual. plus as you said there is no treatement, so registring them publically will only cause them to bear a heavy stigma that will ruin their lifes, i don’t think it is faire.
            don’t get me wrong i’m not telling you that we should let them abuse people, i think it would be more effecient to enpower potential victims than to punish people with NPD.

          24. Liza: The dynamic of NPD itself, with all of its complexities, plus, all those that are involved on both sides of the dynamic, and added on top of all that, the power politics of illness/versus disease etc., determined by the rulers` selective and oftentimes biased and ongoing class engineering ,etc., is all way too complicated a matter for me to analyze, regarding NPD. I just was wondering what readers on this site had in mind for any sort of endgame or remedies. Thanks, Liza, for taking a shot at a solution to all this.

          25. Liza says:

            my pleasure.

      6. Bibi says:

        There was one support group run by this lady with lots of makeup and expensive bling shit who would remove you if you criticized Trump. ‘These are my boundaries!’ She’d say.

        Ironic to be running a ‘narc support’ group and then punish someone for calling out Trump. She comes across like a somatic narc to me. She is not warm and fuzzy but abrasive and like someone who will bite your head off if you disagree with her.

        1. Renarde says:


          You got it lovely. Was it you the other day who had the epiphany about narc support groups run by women?

          1. Bibi says:

            No, Renarde, I don’t think I was the one who mentioned that. But this particular lady I am convinced has to be a somatic. Her pics are filled with status bombs, lots of expensive jewelry and clothes, travel to exotic hotels, blah blah look at me at this fancy restaurant. After a while my eyebrows begin to go up and my eyes start to roll.

            She is always photographing herself with people who look like her as they go to expensive bars and restaurants.

            But she will kick anyone out of her support group who disses Trump. It is just bizarre. Her opinion is the right one and if you disagree you are ‘violating her boundaries’.

            Her FB support group had a lengthy list of guidelines–things like, ‘I don’t want to hear a bunch of complaining! Bring solutions, not problems!’ I felt like I was reading an Onion article.

            At least the 10 Commandments have brevity going for them.

    4. MB says:

      I love you NA! I forgot about The Cliff. Maybe we can get it soon.

    5. Desirée says:

      the amount of people saying they

      a.) are a Super Empath
      b.) know a Super Empath
      c.) were a Super Empath in a former life

      is beyond annoying. I suggest we formerly introduce the helpful and easy to remember Acronym


      to ensure Emotional Thinking did not interfere in the self-assessment.

      Not. A. Super. Empath. Unless. H. G. Says. So.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Good suggestion, Desiree. However, you can ask someone, “Are You SEC-C?” or “Did HG say you are SEC-C?”
        Super Empath Consultation Confirmed.

        1. Desirée says:

          Good idea. Not to be confused with a C-SEC, but it does roll off the tongue a little bit more pleasantly. Let’s do that from now on.

        2. Dolores Haze says:

          So it’s worth booking an Empath Detector consult just for the sake of asking, “Do you think I’m SEC-C?” ☺️

          1. HG Tudor says:

            It is worth booking an empath detector full stop.

            However, if you do ask the question, you have to sing it a la Rod Stewart.

          2. Bibi says:

            Why does Rod Stewart exist? Every time I hear one of his songs I change the station.

          3. Lorelei says:

            I’ve seen Rod Stewart! Twice!

          4. Renarde says:


            I literally have no idea why Sob Rewert exists. It’s like Camilla Parker-Bowles.

            At least Boris Johnson is unintentionally hilarious.

          5. Alexissmith2016 says:

            I think with BJ it’s intended to come across as unintentional.

      2. Lorelei says:

        It is annoying Desiree but it’s 11:04 in the morning and i don’t want to drink yet. I’m not a super empath but I did smack the piss out of my ex repeatedly when he lost money. I would do it again if he didn’t like it so much. Now I know!

      3. NarcAngel says:

        Excellent. As for the many unconfirmed Greater narc assessments, I will continue with an eye roll rather respond to a post with:

        Chances are the Greater that you were/are with is spelled with only one e.

        1. Lorelei says:

          NA—I think people also think the greater thing is ultra cool but it’s not. At least my ex is essentially blinded to his behavior so it’s much easier to manage. It doesn’t mean more “intelligence” (standardized testing, IQ etc) either necessarily than a upper echelon mid-Ranger. It’s the type and blend of intelligence. I would be more upset if someone were self aware and hurt me. Who wants that?

        2. Desirée says:

          Completely true. I believe the whole “I’m a Super Empath and I was with a Greater” is a sign of either Mid-Range Grandiosity or rampant Empath Emotional Thinking. This is not a competition of “Who got eaten by the biggest Wolf on Campus”.

          1. HG Tudor says:


    6. Witch says:

      I am a supernova empath hear me roar!!!

      (Just tryna get you drunk like)

      1. NarcAngel says:

        Haha, there really is no down side to this.

    7. WhoCares says:

      Hey NA – if I join you, does this mean I can add bourbon to my coffee this morning or does it have to be straight up?

      Or maybe I’m disqualified since I know a SuperNova is not a person but I still think I couldn’t necessarily identify a supernova moment.

      I await The Cliff with you!

      1. NarcAngel says:

        Bourbon it is, any way you like. You are not disqualified as there is no need to identify the actual EVENT. You are confirmed to have read and understood the following clear distinction:

        Thus the Empathic Supernova is WHEN the Super Empath determines………

      2. Alexissmith2016 says:

        It’s an easy mistake to make.

        When we’re new to the site and learning, many of us do believe we’ve encountered a greater. Most will have encountered a mid and they do appear to be calculating in their approach and we’ve nothing else to compare it to.

        Why it’s so important to stay here, learn and support each other so that we can understand and apply the best approach.

        1. K says:

          I agree, when people are new and their ET is off the charts, it’s difficult to figure out the schools of narcissists and empaths. You have to read and then read some more until it all sinks in and starts to make sense and that takes time.

          1. Alexissmith2016 says:

            Cheers K. It’s so important for people to be able to speak out. We all make mistakes (apart from HG of course), it’s all part of the learning process and helps us build our strength and knowledge.

          2. K says:

            Safety is paramount and people need to feel safe here so they can speak up and express their thoughts and experiences in a judgment free zone. I have made many mistakes and, you are correct, it’s all part of the learning process.

    8. Lorelei says:

      Are you drunk NA?

      1. NarcAngel says:

        No, I’m not drunk but I’m Sec C.

        1. WhoCares says:


        2. Lorelei says:

          NA—are you Sec C or Sexxxxxy?

          1. Lorelei says:

            Funny! I was afraid to open this! I’ve seen both performers. Kenny jumps around like a kid and Rod was decent. My favorite recent show was Imagine Dragons with Bishop Briggs. She’s new and adorable. Look her up. My friend got us tickets and we were nearly front row at no cost. Win/win.

          2. Renarde says:

            Ha! I knew I should have posted a few words.

            God Kenny Everett was so funny!

          3. Renarde says:

            Thank you Lorelei, I will do so!

    9. cogra002 says:

      Bottoms up! I’m going to jump on this bandwagon, lol

    10. Fuzz says:

      I am a SuperNova Empath. Cheers!

    11. Anm says:

      A drink for every person who claims they are Empath SuperNovas, and a shot for every new commenter who says their ex IS a Greater, yet we can all clearly see is an average Lesser or Midranger.

      1. Violetta says:

        I have no idea what I am yet, except I obviously smell like fuel to a narc. My last few were not particularly high-functioning. Even the educated ones are in denial about what they are. So no booze on my behalf!

        Slowly walking from my narcs
        Faster than a herd of sharks
        Where were you while we were getting high?
        Someday you will find me
        N.C. with the landslide
        In an empath supernova in the sky

        – With apologies to Oasis. No, wait: they totally deserve it. Especially the one who claimed he was channeling John Lennon. Wotta narc.

  19. kaydiva3 says:

    Can the empathic Supernova manifest as simply saying “no” to the narcissist, or setting a boundary?

    1. HG Tudor says:


      1. cogra002 says:

        I need some new British sayings, HG. I like the confusion of the Narc when I drop these little gems of triangulation.
        Bloody hell!!
        Tickety Boo worked really well.

        1. Bibi says:

          Sod off!
          Bugger off!
          Sometimes you just got to take the piss (don’t really get this one but it is funny).

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