Hair´s To You – How The Narcissist Uses A Physical Trait Against You




I have always been a fan of red-headed women. Oh and blonde-haired ones too. Of course I love brunettes as well. From deep auburn to fiery titian, platinum blonde to ash blonde, chestnut to raven black I love them all. Show me red-gold, mahogany, black brown, highlights or lowlights they all work for me. Long hair, short hair, cropped, bobbed, straight or curly. I love them all. I recall on one occasion talking with a female friend who I had designs on. We were sat in the café of an art gallery and the topic moved onto hair. She asked me what was my favourite type of hair colour.

“Oh raven black,most definitely, I shot back without even pausing to think.”

She smiled and raised a hand to push it through her raven black locks. If the waitress had come over and asked the same question then I would have said blonde as I gazed at her short bobbed blonde hair. On other occasions I might get asked this by someone else and naturally I would tell them my favourite. Lo and behold it just happened to be the same as the one she had.

“You are just saying that because it is my colour,” she responded.

“No, it is my absolute favourite. All of my previous girlfriends had strawberry blonde hair.”

“Really? I thought the one before me was a brunette. I saw a picture of her.”

“Oh her? No, no, she was not my girlfriend. Goodness me no, she was just a friend. Admittedly we did lock lips a couple of times, but it was nothing, she was a tad obsessed if you really must know.”

“Was she? I am sure you referred to her as your girlfriend.”

“You must have her confused with an earlier one maybe. No, always been ladies with strawberry blonde hair, it is a particular weakness of mine.”

If she had green hair with blue dots in it I would have said the exact same thing. Sometimes these comments have been said so many times but with the appropriate alterations that I cannot help but say them. Occasionally, if my target has some awareness and has been listening, I might contradict myself but I have enough charm and evasiveness to get out of the situation.

Hair colours and hair styles are such a useful device for currying favour with a target or by contrast upsetting them. When all is well in the world and we are enjoying our golden period, then whatever you do to your hair I love it. You can colour it, put in extensions or even shave it all off. I will always tell you how beautiful you look because that is what you want to hear. With every visit to the hairdresser’s a lady wants that compliment. I have seen you sashaying back from a visit to the salon and parading before me. I will be effusive in my praise, espousing how natural it looks, how the colour sets off your eyes and the shape frames your face magnificently. I have a whole list of suitably complimentary comments to churn out when you return with your new ‘do’.

The stock that a lady places in the power of a new hair style or hair cut is such that it really makes it too easy to gather some negative fuel. I can tell you are really happy with this new style and you are just waiting for the compliments. Not today. Why should it be all about you and your new hairstyle? What about me? I look after my hair too and have it cut every twelve days so it always looks smart, but do you say anything? No. You regard a man and his hair as purely something of function. You on the other hand regard the colour and style as an opportunity to express yourself. Feel free because I am only too happy to rain on your parade and make that sleek do go frizzy. I will frown and peer at your new hairstyle.

“What’s wrong?” you ask as your triumphant smile vanishes.

“It does not suit you.”

“Why? How? Roger at the salon said it was very me.”

“Well he would when you spend that ridiculous sum of money there. It does not suit you. It makes your face look too….severe.”

“Are you serious?”

Damn right I am serious. This is about getting some lovely fuel from you and this is too good an opportunity to pass up. Whereas once I rolled out the barrage of compliments, I now issue my damning verdict on how wrong the colour is, it is too short, too long, too voluminous. I will pick fault and soon have you running from the room to the bedroom to cry and try and alter it. You bring it on yourselves you know, you really do.

342 thoughts on “Hair´s To You – How The Narcissist Uses A Physical Trait Against You

  1. Pingback: Hair´s To You – How The Narcissist Uses A Physical Trait Against You — – Stylist Teresa Yvette Lopez
  2. FoolMe1Time says:

    Happy Holidays Sweetest! 😘

  3. Sweetest Perfection says:

    Omg, someone here mentioned Luke and Matt Goss and I had shivers. I still keep my BROS vinyl album with me, which included a poster-size picture of the band. I didn’t hear about them until now, wow. Btw, I’ve been caught up in traveling chaos and some other stuff but checking periodically, happy holidays everyone!

  4. Julie Petkovska says:

    Nothing wrong with looking like a porn star
    Porn stars, look different Riley, abella, former stars Jenna haze, Alexis Texas, Bella Donna and sunny Leone all look different. Different hair, different body and different styles, if a man cannot tell you what porn star you may look like, he has failed miserably as a narcissist or average man. Can try to triangulate, but if you know your stuff doesn’t work as well 🙂 you say thank you… next

    1. Pati says:

      Hi Julie
      Perhaps I should have asked him to give me an example. I never thought about it from your point of view. Smart.

  5. Lamb says:

    Myself and narcs DLS completely opposite, she long straight auburn hair , myself short jet black with a fringe.
    My narc has asked me numerous times past to colour mine blonde , I didn’t comply with the requests.
    Running after 5 children, worrying about my hair wasn’t on my high importance list, I prefer simplicity.
    I don’t care if he likes my hair or not . He did say when we were dating he loved my hair.
    He should worry about his own hair , I’ve grown tired of reassuring him he was still attractive despite his balding. Losing his hair has been a huge deal to him, it never bothered me in the slightest.

    1. Violetta says:

      Is your hair like Louise Brooks’? She’s one of my heroes.

      1. Lamb says:

        No. Longer than hers .

  6. Renarde says:


    Yup, ginger means red. Or a clinker.

    It’s certainly a very funny thing, hair. I’ve had three narcs who became obsessed with it. Even to the point where I just wanted a trim and two where up in arms.

    No you cannot! But just a say. Well ok, they’d grudgingly agree (like I needed their permission anyway) and orf I’d go.

    What should be been a simple matter of grooming for me became a battleground. Not needed and way not cool.

    Your last paragraph is a little strange there. You are owning two mutually exclusive viewpoints.

    No, you do not need to run anything by anyone. It’s your hair. Not theirs. How dare male narcs attempt to control us by such a silly way. But of course,ca lot if female self value is wrapped up in how we look. As opposed to how we feel inside.

    I’m sure you look smashing x

    1. njfilly says:


      What does a “clinker” mean?

      Yes, I do not need to run anything by anyone, especially concerning my hair, but I have a desire to please my man so I will try to give his preference first consideration assuming it wasn’t something I was totally against. I do it willingly.

      1. Renarde says:


        Clinker also means red.

        General question, no judgement as I have done it…Why do women want to please their partner?

        1. njfilly says:


          I do not feel judged by your question.

          I can obviously only speak for myself, so you may be asking the wrong woman this question. I have some intense desires in this area that go a bit beyond just wanting to ‘please my partner’. But I don’t know why.

          1. Renarde says:


            No, I dont know why I did it either. Because I loved him, I guess. That must sound pretty pathetic.

          2. Pati says:

            Renarde I am commenting on this one as i Cant find the one that you responded about your kids
            I am so sorry what you are going through . You must miss them a lot,especially over the holidays. Hugs sweety!

          3. Renarde says:

            Thank you Pati.

          4. njfilly says:


            I don’t think that sounds pathetic.

            Actually, may I ask why you think there is a problem with wanting to please your partner? I don’t think there is a problem with that, and I have no problem doing that.

  7. Dorion says:

    Can’t contribute to the discussion about midwives as I never had a child and never wanted to have one. If anything, Can’t contribute to the gender of midwives either as I have never been pregnant or had a baby. If I did though, I would probably prefer a male midwife. And I am bi and gender queer, so make that even more complicated.

    As far as hair goes – actually why do men love loooong hair on women so much? What does it represent? This is coming from a female who’s had had very long hair in most of my life so far. There are not very many things I habitually and consistently care for in my appearance, the hair is probably #1, most likely because I am gifted with it – easy to do anything with it. I’ve had many styles and colors imaginable (including non-natural colors from the palette). Also many different lengths and styles, but never bald so far. My most natural preference is very long hair, with some but not many long layers. All sorts of red shades in the past ~5 years, usually not natural reds but purples and combinations. I have thick and moderately curly hair. It sucks up the dye like no tomorrow and, in the end, each color appointment in the salon is a very effective paycheck erase (not really). Of course the stylists love it but so do men. So what is it for men (narcs or not) about long haired women? Why do men like long hair on women so much that they even demand it and get nasty if it is changed?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. You can contribute because nobody is excluded from expressing a view or observation here.
      2. Further, the discussion was about how you do not have to have experienced something to be effective at it, hence that supports even further your ability to be involved in the discussion.

      1. Lorelei says:

        I worked at the hospital I had my children at—so I received royal treatment. I really don’t like being pregnant though but my confession is likely an unpopular one. I don’t seek out NP’s for my care despite my background. I prefer to see a licensed DO or MD. I feel the education is unparalleled and I respect it. I also have been part of many deliveries & emergency c-sections and neonatal resuscitations so I have a frame of reference. It’s complicated, there are things I would see an NP for of course but I’m quite picky. I’m not saying a veteran mid-wife isn’t awesome. I don’t care if I see a male or female. At the end of the day I want the doctor though—but this is quite variable depending on what country we are talking about. It also couples substantially with access to care, etc.

    2. zwartbolleke says:


      Men (I’m not talking about narcissist), find attractive about a woman everything they don’t have or cannot do themselves, for instances we can move/dance in very curvy way, our back can make a beautiful curve, hands can be very gratious, we can do amazing hairwips with long hair, we can do snake moves with our bodies, we are bendy, etc…
      But everybody is different, there will be men who prefer short hair, I’m sure….

      1. NarcAngel says:

        HG claims he can do snake hips, but of course there’s no proof to date. I’m hoping he will demonstrate this dance move (not his bedroom technique) on Instagram one of these days, but we all know about hope……sigh.

        1. zwartbolleke says:

          Ha Ha 🙂
          I believe many things NA, from singing and cooking to pulling teeth, but snake hips…
          This man can’t do that!

  8. njfilly says:


    I have also tried many hair styles and colors. I had to look up PST as I didn’t know what that meant. Also, calling yourself a ginger, does that mean red hair?

    Although I do what I want with my hair, I also like to please the man I am with. I usually ask his opinion before making any drastic changes. I’m not suggesting you should do that. It is part of the control I will allow a man to have over me. Unless he suggested something I was totally against. Then, no way.

  9. Renarde says:

    Oh hair and hair colour. My stars!

    Have tried it all. Long, short red or dark brown. I was born a ginger and remained so for 18 months. Then I went dark. I’ve flirted over the years as we all have. I’m exceptionally lucky in that I have an oval face which means I can suit any hairstyle. I’ve never gone blonde but there is time yet.

    One of the biggest flags I recieved was when I cut my hair short when I was 21. He loathed it and promptly went into a PST. I was aghast and amazed. None of his damn business what I did with my hair. The fact that he whined like a cunt was not one of his most finest moments. Bless him. He was very young.

    Now I do what I want. When I want.

    1. Lorelei says:

      Renarde—you have pretty dark hair. It suits you.

      1. Renarde says:

        Thankyou Lorelei! X

  10. NarcAngel says:

    Fuel is fuel. Does anyone care the colour, condition, or size of the pump when they need to fill their car? No. You just need to be filled and be on your way.

    1. MB says:

      NA, I have to say I do care about the pump. Slow ones are a pet peeve! I have no patience and go to another one or a whole other station after pumping $2.41 in five minutes. I can sympathize with a narc. Sometimes the little bit you get just isn’t worth the effort or the wait! Ha ha

      1. njfilly says:

        I live in NJ and we don’t pump our own gas. But actually, I think Mr. Tudor might have a problem if his fuel pump had no hair at all.

        1. MB says:

          Njfilly, I honestly don’t think he would care. It would just be a handy trait to be turned against the appliance during devaluation. During the GP, all is wonderful. Even bald heads!

          1. HG Tudor says:


            I love me a slap head.

          2. njfilly says:

            Very funny. But seriously? You would not have an issue with that? You don’t have standards of beauty your IPPS has to meet?

          3. HG Tudor says:

            Oh give me a slap head, think of the wig wearing games. A new appliance every day through The Changing of the Wig, quick, issue a fanfare, it is Hair Changing Time!

          4. njfilly says:

            Oh my goodness, you are so funny! I guess that might be very fun for you after all.

          5. njfilly says:

            MB: I would think an Ultra Greater Narcissist would have a beauty standard for his IPPS. I understand it is all about fuel; however, aren’t they considered an extension of the narc? Wouldn’t he want a certain “arm candy” when he was seen in public? I have asked him this directly as I am very curious.

        2. FoolMe1Time says:

          Actually he might like that quite a bit njfilly? 😉

          1. njfilly says:

            Really? Why do you say that?

      2. NarcAngel says:

        Haha. In a lot of cases, your last sentence is the lament of the empath.

    2. Violetta says:

      MB: But then you lose the discount from the points on your card.

    3. lisk says:

      I care! I do only put Premium in my vehicle.

      1. MB says:

        Same Lisk. She has turbo and requires premium.

        1. NarcAngel says:

          Haha, well you two are more posh than the average then. Point was, most narcs will take what’s readily available to help fill the tank. Appearance doesn’t have the weight some think it does, which inevitably causes the comments of some about their fuel being superior, or “what a skank he is with now”.

          1. Desirée says:

            I know a guy who converted an ancient Mercedes to run on Vegteable Oil. It is now a Lower Lesser in terms of fuel needs.

          2. NarcAngel says:

            Haha. I wonder if it smells like a french fry truck.

    4. Pati says:

      Exactly my Narcs takes premium

    5. FoolMe1Time says:


    6. Whitney says:

      You’re awesome NarcAngel!

  11. Pati says:

    I love going to the salon. I have changed my hair colour and style a lot over the years as change feels good. Not once has my husband complimented me on my hair not once. Always nevative or no comment at all
    I recently have my hair ombre which is 2 different shades and he flipping that my hair looked like a porn star. I was pissed but I didnt show it. I told him i like it and thats what counts.

    1. Witch says:

      Ombré so cool, very punk rock

      1. Pati says:

        Hi Witch
        Not really punk but dark on the roots light on the ends.
        Easier to maintain then getting higlights on the roots every month or so, plus you get the best of both worlds. Blonde and brunette.

        1. njfilly says:

          Sounds very pretty!

          1. Pati says:

            Thank you ! Also balayage looks nice as well

          2. njfilly says:

            Thank you! Yes, I love my hair.

          3. Pati says:

            Thats great ! Feeling good about yourself is fantastic!

          4. njfilly says:

            Yes, I agree. I hope you feel fantastic!

        2. Witch says:

          I was thinking of the bright colour ombré’s. I can’t imagine how what you have described would make you look anything like a porn star

          1. Pati says:

            I think he got jealous Witch , plus he doesnt know anything about hair. But when he gets his haircut I need to compliment him. You see witch he is special lol.

          2. NarcAngel says:

            Is looking like a porn star supposed to be an insult?

          3. Witch says:


            In this context yes, as Pati’s husband meant it as an insult and when most people say “you look like a pornstar” in an insulting way they mean “fake” (cosmetically enhanced) in a way that they feel makes you look grotesque and/or underdressed/tacky.
            But I find the insult to be very out of place, considering natural colour hair dye would not particularly stand out.

          4. NarcAngel says:

            Originally I understood it to be an insult, but considering that a great number of women (most of them in their 20s and 30s) are trying to emulate the porn star look through fake and exaggerated everything, I thought that might have changed. It now seems a goal.

          5. Witch says:

            I agree that looking like a porn star is not really a negative thing these days.
            Too much effort for me, sometimes I don’t even brush my hair for a whole week

          6. Pati says:

            The comment about my husband saying I look like a porn was just something negative he said at the top of his head. I dont even know why he said because it didnt make sense at all. He did it to attract negative fuel. I remained neutral.

          7. Renarde says:

            Oh me neither. No idea where the brush is tbh. I do know I enjoyed fucking with my hair.

            As always, HG is disturbingly correct. Although I didnt realise it at the time, I derived great pleasure from cutting my hair off from time to time. I found it liberating and refreshing. Ex hated it. Loathed it.

            One day, very early doors, we held a party. This was the inaugural wearing if the top hat. I was a toff.

            Hats being hats, well there is no point doing your hair. So I dragged it up and just slicked the whole thing back.

            We all had a good time. As people drifted off to bed. Ex turned to me and said, ‘I cant stand looking at you with your hair like that. Please change it. You look like a boy’.

            Now, that is a very narc comment. Very. It would be tempting for the casual reader to assume our relationship of 18 years was littered with comments like those. It was not. At all. I would never stood it. He knew that. No, his devaluations were far more subtle.

            But he did have a big thing about the hair.

          8. Desirée says:

            the “trend” of cosmetically enhancing oneself in this way originally came from the desire to emulate Kim K, Kylie Jenner etc. and the constant exposure to these man-made faces through social media has changed their followers’ perception of beauty.
            They don’t understand that this not new and exotic, but rather reminiscent of a stereotypical porn star look except instead of breast enhancement, the focus now rests on their protruding posterior.
            They also dont understand that the “instagram influencers” they admire on those yachts in Dubai are actually freelancing prostitutes.

          9. Witch says:

            I think it’s not only about emulating porn stars/trying to be a sex symbol, but there is also a trend of white women wanting to look “exotic” and racially ambiguous e.g Arianna Grande, which is also where the lip fillers and big bum comes in and I think that is due to a rise of light skin black women and mixed women becoming more popular and marketable in pop music.

          10. Hope says:

            Desiree- what you just wrote here makes a lot of sense to me.

            I don’t think they understand that their uniqueness is more valuable than changing to fit into a cookie cutter. And it’s irreversible as well. I really hope Kendall stays natural. Not only for her but also for the sake of her influence on other young girls. I feel if she changed her body she would cheapen it. She’s gorgeous and, right now, she’s the only Kendall there is. I hope modeling influenced her in a positive way. Her uniqueness is her brand and no else can deliver her natural self. Anyone can buy fake body enhancements.

            So, I guess what I’m trying to say is, after your perspective was shared, I can now see how “porn star-esque” is an insult.

          11. Desirée says:

            Adriana Grande had a very caucasian girl look before starting her plastic surgery journey and is still quite skinny. Also, there are plenty of germanic girls with very full lips and womanly shape to them.

            So I don’t think it has to do with trying to be more exotic, but trying to be more like the
            “Free the Lance”-girls they see on social media without knowing what it means.

          12. Witch says:

            That was my point she “had” (past tense) a Caucasian look because she is Caucasian. Now people question what her ethnicity might be because of how she looks now.
            It’s the same with Kyle Jenner who you mentioned. If we didn’t know who she was people would wonder what her ethnicity is because of what she looks like now and how dark she looks in her modelling photos. Having dark hair, full lips and light brown skin is a trend now.
            That’s not to say white women don’t ever have those features naturally but it’s not typical characteristics that people associate with being white.
            Pop stars used to be blonde, blue eyes and they are darker, black and mixed raced and that’s who young women now look up to and what some want to look like.
            You even see it with some white Instagram models who will wear braids or thick curly wigs and tan significantly darker than what they are and get lip filers. They are trying to look racially ambiguous and some are straight up trying to pass as black, when confronted about it, they deny it but we can visibly see how drastically different they look from their natural selves.
            Recently I was with a black friend and she passed by a woman with white children and my friend said to me, “her children are white but she looks mixed raced”
            I said “her children are white because she is white, it’s called black hair dye, fake tan and lip filler. That’s not what she looks like naturally.”
            My friend was shocked at how she was able to pass as mixed with black.
            I explained to her, that it’s a trend now.

          13. NarcAngel says:

            1.Do you attribute that to social media and people wanting a more global appeal, where before the internet they just wanted to fit into their local surroundings?
            2.Do you think it’s just a trend, or a new direction in society in hoping to demonstrate more diversity, and cause more inclusivity in an attempt to ease identifiable racial bias? (Ie: “there is no colour – we are all one” type of mindset).

          14. Witch says:

            Yes and yes. I think that is definitely a part of it. Trying to appeal to more people.
            I also think it’s because in recent years hip hop-pop is what is currently the most popular kind of music amongst young people. If you look at the female artists who are currently the most listened to it’s, Beyoncé, Rihanna, Cardi B, Kehlani, Ariana Grande, Nicki Minaj.
            Even when you look at the female singers/rappers who are less well known but still popular amoung younger people, it’s Doja Cat, Sawteetie…
            like I said it’s light skinned black women, mixed race, racial ambiguity which is what is currently trending, at least that is what is obvious to me. But yes I think a part of it is having a universal look that appeals to a wider range of people.

          15. Violetta says:

            Ariana Grande doesn’t mind people mistaking her for Hispanic, which is frequently mixed with black depending on country of origin, but her heritage is actually Italian.

          16. Desirée says:

            The current instagram trends reminds me of what HG said about the normalization of narcissism. Through the frequent exposure of these made up girls (most of which are narcissists), it bleeds into the mainstream, having people believe that this look is the new normal and their herd mentality drives them to try and fit in with this image.
            Kendall has had significant plastic surgery done already (rhinoplasty, lip fillers, cheek fillers, chin fillers and brow lift), as did Bella Hadid for example, but at least her body seems to be implant-free thus far. I have looked into it about a year ago and noticed that pretty much every A-Lister has had significant plastic surgery and almost always veneers as well, but that being said I do prefer Kendalls current look over whatever the hell is going on with her sister.

          17. HG Tudor says:


          18. Witch says:

            What narcissism also tends to do is marginalise the people who have those characteristics naturally and celebrate the people who have obtained those characteristics through synthetic means/mirroring.
            There has been a history of black womens features being viewed as grotesque from the European perspective but attractive when white women attempt to emulate those same characteristics.
            And it’s not a new phenomenon. Look at some of the styles of Victorian dresses that give the appearance of having a huge butt while simultaneously black women were displayed to white audiences and laughed at for naturally having a big butt.

        3. ANM says:

          I love bayalage ombre highlights. Not pornstar at all.

          1. Pati says:

            ANM, thats what i though so too. I havent had any cosmetic surgery either. Not sure what he meant by it I should have asked him. Knowing him i am pretty sure he did it to piss me off.

    2. njfilly says:

      What do men know about hair anyway. He would hate my hair then. My hair is a blend of three colors. Platinum and strawberry blonde on top and copper red underneath. Very fiery and bold which fits my personality.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Indeed, Vidal Sassoon, John Frieda, Nicky Clarke, Ted Gibson, Trevor Sorbie what do they know?!

        1. njfilly says:

          Mr. HG Tudor,

          Thank you for correcting me.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            You’re welcome. Short back and sides?

          2. njfilly says:

            Mr. HG Tudor, Are you asking about my hair? If so, it is all one length almost to my waist. Except for long bangs.

          3. HG Tudor says:

            I wasn’t, but thank you for the information

          4. njfilly says:

            What were you asking? I don’t understand.

          5. HG Tudor says:

            I was not asking anything. I was correcting.

          6. njfilly says:

            Mr. HG Tudor,

            You have me confused. You know I must get to the truth or I might go insane. What did you mean by “short back and sides”? Please explain.

          7. HG Tudor says:

            It was a joke.

          8. njfilly says:

            Oh, I see.! As if you were the barber. (A hair stylist like the ones you mentioned would ask many more questions.)

            I did think it was unusual that you might ask about my hair. Thank you for responding.

          9. HG Tudor says:

            You’re welcome

          10. Violetta says:

            Short back and sides is the traditional haircut for males of the upper and professional classes in the UK. Prince George already has it.

            Skinheads, suede-heads, mohawks, the D.A., and hippie hair have all been forms of rebellion, usually started by guys in the lower classes and spreading to weekend punks or grungesters who want to feel down wit da peeps on the street.

            A recent example is the “Meet me at McDonald’s,” a schoolboy throwback to ’80s music video hair which outraged a few schoolmasters.

          11. njfilly says:


            Thank you for your response. You seem to know a lot about men’s haircuts. Very funny expression “down wit da peeps”!

            Never heard of the “Meet me at McDonalds”. Since it’s a throwback to 80’s music videos is it long hair?

          12. HG Tudor says:

            Greasy, cheap-looking yet oddly appealing.

          13. njfilly says:

            Very funny. Just like the food, so aptly named.

          14. MB says:

            I’ve never heard of the style called “Meet me at McDonald’s” either, but I gave it a Google and I’ve seen it a lot. It’s all education here.

          15. HG Tudor says:

            They all need marching to the barbers and given a SBAS, group of work-shy fops, the lot of them.

          16. MB says:

            Preach my Man, preach!

          17. njfilly says:

            MB: I love google and the internet in general. It’s so easy to research things and get information.

            I just looked at the “Meet me at McDonalds”. No. I don’t like it. I don’t think I have ever seen it.

            I wonder if McDonalds has an issue with the name?

            Yes, I love learning new things.

          18. Renarde says:


            Skinheads were banned at my school in the late eighties.

            And I was once in the post office, very young I was. Punk with full mohawk rocked up. Getting his girl, I presume. In awe I was.

            I’m extremely tempted to get one side of my head shaved. But that’s not a great look in court.

            Ahh that reminds me if an old joke. ‘What do you call a scouser in a suit?’

            The accused.

            P.S I can crack that one off because I’m from the NW. I have northern privilege.

          19. Violetta says:

            NJ Filly:

            Early Duran Duran had the kind of hair the kids have revived with Meet me at McDonald’s: a lot of moussed-up/jheri-curled crap in the front.

          20. njfilly says:

            Yes, very true. I remember Duran Duran.

          21. Pati says:

            Great band . I remember all their songs especially Hungry like the wolf. Loved the 80’s great times,single days, no stress,and no Narcissist.

          22. njfilly says:

            Yes, they were a good band. I loved the 80’s too.

          23. Pati says:

            I was a fan of New Kids On The Block.
            My room was full of all their posters.
            It was a faze bit a fun one .

          24. njfilly says:

            They were on par with Duran Duran. I was into heavy metal at that time. I still am. I prefer both my music and the lyrics to be heavy, intense, and deep. I’m not a big fan of love songs either.

          25. Pati says:

            I like some heavy metal bands, Def Leppard,Scorpions,Metallica,and Viken

          26. njfilly says:

            Yes! Love them! Although I’m not familiar with Viken, unless you mean Dokken. I spent much time at concert venues. I was very big into Queensryche as well. I love the deep messages in the lyrics as well as the stories.

        2. Lorelei says:

          You mean I’m not the only flippant one here HG? You are talking about hair?

          1. HG Tudor says:

            No, I was correcting an inaccuracy made by NJfilly. Her comment was in response to an article which used hair as an example of the narcissist ‘s chameleon behaviour.

        3. Violetta says:

          No Philip Kingsley? I think he croaked, but so did Vidal Sassoon.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            It was not an exhaustive list.

        4. Renarde says:

          Temper, HG.

          They are men. They dont know what it means to be a woman. They cannot.

          They provide a facsimile of what men want but placed into a woman’s eyes. And thus the female accepts their mastery.

          Yeah sure, they can cut hair. So did my Grandad. But I bet he was funnier with the cut-throat.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Knowing how to cut hair has nothing to do with knowing what it is to be a woman.

            I suppose there should not be any male midwifes then or why not only have midwifes that have had children.

            You do not have to be something in order to understand it.

          2. MB says:

            Amen to that. HG Tudor is an expert on empathic behavior but he damn sure isn’t an Empath!

          3. lisk says:

            “You do not have to be something in order to understand it,” said the Narcissist, Ever!

          4. Pati says:

            Exactly HG, i am not a Narcissist but starting to understand what one is thanks to you .

          5. HG Tudor says:

            Indeed. Understanding is key.

          6. Renarde says:


            Ahh gender politics on a Monday morning! Excellent!

            You pick a very good example with male midwives. I’m guessing you’ve done this intentionally.

            Actually, I have no issue with male midwives or women that havnt given birth. None. But they can stay the fuck away from me when I’m in labour!

            Actually, I’d be ok now with an inexperienced/experienced combo as I’ve given birth. No book on the planet couldve prepared my for that. An experienced female, a doula for example, would’ve been like gold. I think all inexperienced midwives of ANY gender need to be kept away from active childbirth with a woman who has never given birth actually. You observe. That’s it.

            Inexperienced of any gender are a distraction at best and harmful at worst.

            But to the male midwife. Unlike the inexperienced female they have no potential to experience their job. None whatsoever. Sure, anyone can deliver a baby but there is far far more to childbirth than that.

            A male can never know what it’s like to be in that liminal space between life and death during childbirth. I can explain it to you now but you could never truly appreciate how strange it is. And especially for an Empath.

            So if for example, I was to become a doula then I would know what that woman needed as she progressed. Not just telling me, and of course they may not be able but by sensing it. Would a male be able to do that? Because now I’m drawing on ALL of my intellectual knowledge, my personal experience and my contagion.

            I’ve been unfortunate enough to have young inexperienced females in the delivery room. The best part was when they left the room and left me in peace frankly.

            When the shift changed and I was getting close, an older experienced female walked in. She immediately started sorting out the bed. Pointing out where I needed my feet to be. The relief I felt was through the roof. This was my first time. I trusted her, just like I did the second time with another experienced lady.

            A bond forms. It’s incredibly difficult to explain but I trusted those two women with my life. I’m just not sure I couldve done that if the midwife was male. In addition, a strange dynamic would then have formed between the narc ex and the male. Distracting.

            The answer to this isnt really clear cut but in your post, you have hit upon very probably one of the very few professions which does need to be gendered. The other of course is female ejaculation and orgasms.

            Fascinating topic. Thank you.

          7. HG Tudor says:


            Ahh, claptrap on a Monday. Excellent.

            1. “you pick a very good example with male midwives. I’m guessing you’ve done this intentionally.” No, generally when I am making a point I just unintentionally use any series of words that come to hand.

            2. “Actually, I have no issue with male midwives or women that havnt given birth. None. But they can stay the fuck away from me when I’m in labour!” Then you do have an issue with them.

            3. “But to the male midwife. Unlike the inexperienced female they have no potential to experience their job. None whatsoever. Sure, anyone can deliver a baby but there is far far more to childbirth than that.” Actually no, not anybody can deliver a baby (safely), that is why, to become a midwife in the UK requires a three degree in midwifery. Furthermore, do you mean that you require the police officer to be a victim of crime as well as a law enforcer? Does the fire officer have to have been rescued from a burning building or a crashed car in order to be a fire officer? Does the heart surgeon have had to have had a triple bypass in order to perform one? Does your optician need to wear glasses when prescribing them for you? Must the architect live in a skyscraper to design one? No, they do not.

            4. “I’ve been unfortunate enough to have young inexperienced females in the delivery room. The best part was when they left the room and left me in peace frankly.

            When the shift changed and I was getting close, an older experienced female walked in. She immediately started sorting out the bed. Pointing out where I needed my feet to be. The relief I felt was through the roof. This was my first time. I trusted her, just like I did the second time with another experienced lady.” So what you are actually stating is that you would much rather have someone who is experienced than inexperienced. Wow, now there’s a revelation. I cannot imagine anybody else making such a choice either eh?!

            5. “A bond forms. It’s incredibly difficult to explain but I trusted those two women with my life. I’m just not sure I couldve done that if the midwife was male. In addition, a strange dynamic would then have formed between the narc ex and the male. Distracting.” I thought you did not want the inexperienced woman there, but now she is one of the two women who you trust with their life.

            6. “The answer to this isnt really clear cut but in your post, you have hit upon very probably one of the very few professions which does need to be gendered. The other of course is female ejaculation and orgasms.” Since when is female ejaculation and orgasms a profession?

          8. Renarde says:


            Goodness! Ok. Point by point.

            1 You picked a profession which is unlike any other. You could have used your other examples but you did not.

            2 – If males want to be midwives then I dont have an issue. However, I do not want them near me. For the reasons I’ve outlined.

            3 – All the professions you gave outlined do not require the person to be empathic. Bonus if they are. You need empathy to be a midwife in my experience.

            There are many accounts of women who have been traumatised by narc midwives.

            4 I stated the bleeding obvious. But equally I have delineated the difference in care.

            5 – I gave either not explained myself properly or you gave misread my comment. Probably the former.

            With my two births I had two experienced midwives. One each plus inexperienced ones. It’s those older two that I was referring

            6 – Well its probably not right now but frankly, it should be. It would be enormously beneficial for females.

            Do you appreciate how difficult it is for scientists to get funding in areas concerning female sexuality? If we dont understand the anatomy of a female in the same way we understand the male sexual response then how will women make any progress.

            To go back to my point on male midwives. It’s illegal to discriminate in a profession on gender. Equality Act 2010. I can support malware who want to be midwives because I can appreciate that other women might well be comfortable with that. I am not.

            Much the same way I support male doctors but I wouldnt want one performing an intimate examination on me. This is standard practice.

            I percieve this is the same argument.

            Oh and I believe midwives go into the route by two ways. Direct degree or they are an enrolled nurse, which does not require a degree then they take specialism.

            You do not need any qualifications to midwife in reality. How on earth would we have survived if that was true?

          9. HG Tudor says:

            1. Unlike any other? So, midwifery does not share similarities with nursing? Or being a care assistant? Or being a health worker?
            2. You still have an issue. You may well as have written “I do not have an issue with anybody being gay. So long as they are nowhere near me.”
            3. You do not need to be empathic to be a midwife. There are examples of people being traumatised by narcissists in many different spheres, not just midwifery.
            4. Noted.
            5. noted.
            6. I do not know of any profession in male ejaculation or orgasms either (and no, NA, porn star does not count, before you write it!) I fail to see the relevance.
            7. Your arguments are predicated on personal preference not a dispassionate exploration of the evidence. You can express an opinion on the matter for your personal preference but that makes it of limited applicability to the issue of competence.
            8. I am sure those with the qualification are endeared by your diminution of it. I daresay those who perished in childbirth (mother and baby) before advancements in midwifery etc came along were also thinking “Qualifications? So my baby lives and/or so do I? Nah, we don’t need that, we will manage as we always have done.”

          10. Renarde says:

            1 Of course there are similarities but none of the above a qualified to assist in labour.

            2 – A persons sexual orientation does not impact me in the slightest. A male at birth would impact me.

            HG, as you know, I’m a rape survivour. I am not comfortable with a man that I am not intimate with even touching me let alone loking at my vagina at such an intimate and vulnerable time.

            Of course, it’s not just that, it’s the stretch and sweep. Plus other mechanical maneuvers which are performed sometimes which require hands in vagina.

            To my mind and having done this twice, the essence of reducing pain is being relaxed. I would not be able to relax in front of a male.

            Now, if that makes me a bigot, so be it. I’m intensely relaxed about that.

            3 – We will have to agree to disagree on this one.

            6 – That’s possibly true. Maybe males should start it?

            7 Is this argument really about competence? Because I dont believe I have said that male midwives are necessarily incompetent. The issue is gender.

            8 Ahem. You’ve put words into my mouth. Mother and babies die all the time. Granted, the neficalisation of childbirth has brought a reduction. I would never argue against that. I argue, as do other mothers and mothers to be, have we lost something important?

            I have not diminished qualifications. I have said that you dont need them in order to deliver a baby.

            I know two midwives and I know how hard they work, how demanding it is. I have also heard stories of horrific deliveries which have traumatised the midwive.

          11. HG Tudor says:

            1. I thought nobody needed qualifications (according to your comments) to assist in labour. So which is it?
            2. You keep stating you do not have an issue when you do. That is the point that I am drawing to your attention. What you should state is, “I do have an issue with regard to a man being a midwife and it is this…..” Instead, you twice stated that you do not have an issue and then go on to state an issue. I am not debating the merits of your issue, I note that you have, I am pointing out that twice you have denied having an issue when in fact you clearly DO have an issue. Therefore, the analogy I provided was accurate.
            7. The issue was entirely about competence, not about gender. I state you do not need to be something in order to be competent, you disagreed. You asserted that competence is linked to being something, in this instance the competence is linked to being a woman because a woman has (or is more likely to have) experienced childbirth.
            8. No, I pointed out the weakness of your comment. You have diminished qualifications – by stating you do not need them to deliver a baby you are suggesting that those who have such qualifications have wasted their time in obtaining them.

          12. Renarde says:

            1 – I thought that might be your response. That’s twisting the argument I think. I’ve stated that you dont need medical qualifications. However midwives ARE qualified in a way the other professions aren’t.

            2 – But I also stated that if people think I’m bigoted for holding that view then that’s fine. It doesnt bother me. There choice. I dont think I am but hey?

            7 -Granted. And I can see I’ve drifted from the point which is my fault.

            Thing is, I’ve never really thought Bout male midwives and why I have issues with them.

            Ok so, I’m sure a male midwive can be competent. They might also be an idiot. Personally, I would prefer someone, especially the first time who has experienced it. Less so the second time.

            However, as I gave already said, a further issue with a male is being so intimate in front of them.

            8 OK, well I dont think I have and if anyone takes that away and is upset then I apologise. Not my intention. Do I think its preferable to have qualifications, of course! It’s illegal to free birth and the mother can be prosecuted.

            Childbirth is not just a medical procedure although it can be. It’s a delicate synergy between the mother and the caregiver. Therefore, this isnt necessarily, to my mind, an intellectual argument.

          13. Renarde says:

            Of course, we can flip the argument. Suppose I’m a female doctor and a man comes to see me. Maybe he has an STI. He didnt appreciate I was female and says, sorry, I’d like to see a male.

            Would I be offended? Assume hes a misogynist? Hell no! It wouldn’t bother me and I wouldn’t give it a second thought.

            Then theres when I was in labour with the second. Midwive gives me a stretch and sweep at home just as two male paramedics arrived. I ask them to give me some privacy. The older more experienced male is fine. The second starts chuntering away. I couldnt understand why he wouldnt respect my privacy at was is a really painful and really intimate time.

          14. HG Tudor says:

            You have again missed the points explained to you. What I have raised with you, is not about offence, being a misogynist, whether someone is chuntering away and failing to respect your privacy.

            I will state one final time –

            1. you stated that you did not have an issue with a male midwife and then you immediately cited a reason why you would not want one, which demonstrates you DO have an issue.

            If you wrote, “I understand other people have no issue with a male midwife. I do and it is this reason (explain reason).” That would be accurate and you are of course entitled to form such an opinion. Do you not see that you stated you had no issue and then immediately cited one? If you re-read, you ought to see that.

            2. You have diminished those who have acquired qualifications with regard to midwifery by stating such qualifications are not needed. I have pulled teeth out belonging to other people – should I now be allowed to practise dentistry? After all, I did not need qualifications to do it, anybody can pull teeth out can´t they?

          15. Renarde says:


            As you know, I do consider points carefully. This is an emotive subject for me so on reflection my ET is high.

            However, I have read your comments and I have thought about it but I dont want to go round in circles.

            Thanks for replying.

          16. Renarde says:


            OK, so I’ve had time to reflect on your words and want to say this.

            You are correct. It’s a logical fallacy for me to assert that whilst I’m ok with male midwives in practise but not ok for them to attend me.

            I know I’m wrong because I asked someone else. Result: Ren, you are wrong. Ok, I’m wrong. I get that.

            I’m now going to drift off the point of the original argument. I ask for your forbearance.

            I’m now putting myself in the position of the female about to give birth. The shift changes and a male enters. What do I do?

            Here’s where I split.

            Old Ren, say 15 years ago would’ve been perturbed but largely cool.

            Ren today: No.

            Why? Because what if hes a narc? You have GOT to be kidding me that I’d allow a probably Middle around me.

            He might not necessarily be deploying the PPs and Manips but it’s still feeding time!

            So conversely, what if it’s a female? Well, going out on a limb here (and I do invite others to comment), I think female and male narcs feed in extremely similar but subtlety different ways.

            I percieve a male narc in the childbirth scenario, will almost exclusively focus on the sexual element. A female narc will focus on the emotional fuel. Obviously, I’m talking about narcs who are probably hetero.

            To my mind as female, push come to shove (oh I’m so funny), I’d prefer the female narc over the male. Any day of the week.

            So yes. It really depends on perspective, doesn’t it? Younger Ren would be cool Ren now is not.

            I hope that answers my own split thinking on this. I acknowledge it AND the position it might mean that very good males are being discriminated againat for zero point of their own.

            It bothers me because I am discriminating.

          17. MB says:

            HG, have you ever attended a birth. Not attended, like you pulled the teeth, but been in the room? Just curious.

            Two comments on this thread. My first baby was nearly born while the Dr. was on the way to the hospital. I had to resist the urge to push and that is pure torture for anybody that’s never experienced that. I told my husband I didn’t care if they had to get the janitor in there to catch the baby. I wouldn’t have cared man, woman, narc, non narc, alien, whatever…somebody catch this baby!

            Second, there is nothing whatsoever sexual or sexy about giving birth. Sex is the last thing on anybody’s mind during a delivery. And I’ve attended more than my fair share!

          18. HG Tudor says:

            Yes, I have attended a birth. At the business end.

          19. MB says:

            Interesting. You’ve been fortunate to have many opportunities and lives a full life. There isn’t much HG hasn’t done.

          20. HG Tudor says:

            Kind of you to say MB, fortune is nothing to do with it though.

          21. Pati says:

            Good for you HG! How did you feel seeing a live birth?

          22. HG Tudor says:

            How did I feel? Have you turned into Dr E, Pati?

            I found it interesting.

          23. Pati says:

            Oh HG i didnt.realize I was doing that sorry . I always found psychology very fascinating though. I do tend to ask people how they feel about certain things.
            Anyways I am glad you found it interesting .

          24. HG Tudor says:

            I am joking with you Pati.

          25. Pati says:

            Phew! I feel better now.

          26. Lorelei says:

            Renarde—I’ve always preferred male OB’s but yet female nurses. I make little sense! I have been at it a long time. Narcissists for practitioners of any variety will always allow their narcissism to hurt a patient. I’ve seen many things. Normals are better regulated. I believe HG may feel strongly that a greater would never lose control of their narcissism to let the mask slide. I don’t know any greater narcissists and healthcare is crawling with mids. They do a nice job generally—it’s when they don’t that it counts. I’ve seen things I’m not going to discuss here in detail to support my thought on this. I’d be happy to write a laundry list to HG personally though that illustrates how patient care is impacted by mid range shenanigans from physician down the ladder.

          27. Renarde says:


            Thank you for sharing. I agree, crawling with mids. I watched one female nurse in action a while ago in A&E, she was horrific. Yelling loudly at a man who was clearly in great pain and distress.

            Nursing is incredibly hard, I couldn’t do it. Retention is poor. Money dire.

          28. Lorelei says:

            Nursing isn’t hard—it’s the mindset of those doing it that compels their attitude. For instance, I’ve heard that “it’s hard on the body.” Why? We need to move around and be active. Pay is poor—I’ll agree for starting wages yes or lower degrees etc. Teaching is often a lower salary. It’s a decision. The hours are bad they say… For me, I have more time in my life than when when I worked admin from 8-5. Granted, I have things pretty easy but I can function nearly anywhere and it’s not really hard.

          29. Renarde says:


            Thanks for responding.

            The only knowledge I have of nursing really comes from personal experience plus the plethora of nurses from my ex-H side. Three generations!

            The MIL would whine all the time. Difficult to peg her although she was undoubtedly intelligent.

            I’m glad there are people like you who clearly do nurse and enjoy a good balance in work/life. That’s brilliant and good on you.

            Now, where do we find others like you?

          30. Lorelei says:

            Haha—I seriously like my work but then again, I have diversified what I’ve done and my work is not “hard” generally. (Can be..)
            I don’t have the issues many others have that they complain about. People don’t hate me because I’m not horrible to them, they ask for me when they come in. Some people are unaware of their demeanor and the issues they create for themselves. I like getting 10,000 steps in too so saying it’s “hard” is baloney.

          31. Renarde says:


            Ahh, am I understanding this. You head them off at the pass before they cause issues?

            Very wise. Greaters think like that too.

          32. Lorelei says:

            I just treat people very well and I rarely have issues. It’s nearly always something the practitioner or doctor or whoever creates. We are the professional. The patient relies on us to set the tone. Sensing their energy defines the work required to accommodate their care. I really love my work and my public health stuff.

          33. Lorelei says:

            The other thought on this Renarde—it’s honestly a privilege to be a part of people’s most private moments. I think it’s mostly joyful:)

          34. Renarde says:

            Oh Lorelai, I agree. I love hearing peoples journeys out of the darkness x

          35. Pati says:

            HG, i agree with you on this one regarding midwives. I had all my 4 kids in the hospital with obstericians. When i look back i wish i would have had a midwife for some support. When you are in pain it doesnt matter male or female.
            The obstericans on call just did the delivery only and didnt offer any support in terms of comfort and they were all male and havent gone through labour. The just know their job
            So if a male wants to be a midwife good for him or any occupation for that matter.

          36. Renarde says:


            Ah yes, the US. Do you not think that it’s a spectacular waste if a Drs effort and skill to assist in a straightforward delivery? Because I do.

            Generally, the only time you see a Doctor in the uk in the active stage 2 is if something has gone catastrophically wrong. It, the woman needs an epidural. And if course the C section.

            I will say it again, in a normal straightforward childbirth, you need experienced people around you.

            You should absolutely have had a midwife. No question. I wanted home births for both of mine but in the end, it didnt work out. I’m ok with that. It’s not something that bothers me unduly.

            As I’ve said, I was lucky in that at the point I needed to deliver for each I had experienced women around me and in each case I had a very positive birth experience.

            Your last point does take me aback though. ‘Any occupation for that matter’.

            Dont take this the wrong way but males take ALL the occupations anyway. They are not the second gender. We are.

            I was watching the news a few years ago and the Head of Nursing was male. Really? Really??? With all those women in that profession the head is a male? Now I’ve heard it all.

            I daresay people will call me a misandrist for holding that view but I do not care any longer.

            I have always worked on a heavily male dominated sector. The times I was called agressive when I was mearly bring assertive strikes home. Hard. Or the times I was touched up, spanked, felled for just doing my job.

            Dont recall any females whacking my arse.

          37. Pati says:

            In Canada where I live we have a lot of residents in the hospital learning .
            My last birth was awful! A resident messed up my epidural and i was in some much pain. I wanted the epidural so bad because i hate pain.
            A third year student delivered my daughter.
            The nurses were there just taking your blood pressure and dilation. It was just terrible.
            I was in 20 hours of pain and they didnt want to do a c-section.
            There are no private hospitals here either .
            We have coverage in the regular hospitals which is good but the wait times are just crazy !
            In terns on male and female occupation its equal.

          38. Renarde says:


            Very sorry to hear about your experiences. Epidurals are very easy to fuck up if they dont get it in the right place. I thought mine had fucked up but it turned out the reason it wasnt working was that I was transitioning.

            Going back to previous points, lovely EXPERIENCED midwife realised what had happened, flipped me on my back and then checked dilation.

            Your going to have a baby, she said

            No shit sherlock!

            I was privileged to have a beautiful birth. My daughter just popped out. God, she was beautiful. So small. Takes after her mother, I think.

            I miss her so much.

          39. Pati says:

            Hi Renarde ,
            It took them 4 times to get the epidural right .
            Finally my husband made a stink and the chief of anesthesia came in and put it in the right place. Too late i had to push i had so much drugs because of them i ended up with post partum preeclampsia and had to be hospitalized.

            Anyways you miss your daughter. Did she move away from home?

            Its hard being a parent but i wouldnt change it.

          40. Renarde says:

            Dear Pati

            Dud she move away from home? Not quite. The ex took both my children and has not told me where they are. Nor do I know their schools. He attempted to get parental responsibility removed but he failed on that score.

            Right now, I feel like a brood mare. All was fine in narc land until I said no to my father and no to my ex. Then both of them have been attempting to destroy me.

            Today, I found a strand of my dads smear against me. Now I know what he did. In 2016, he has very probably emailed pornographic pictures of me to my place of work. A profession I adored and was incredibly good at.

            Four attempts? Wow. You must have been transitioning when they tried…and failed.

            Did you recover ok?

          41. Getting There says:

            Hello, Renarde.

            I was interested in reading your thoughts on the midwife for your own experience, and I hope you don’t mind me commenting.

            Childbirth is such a personal experience. I have heard of great experiences. I didn’t have a good experience myself. I had a female doula at my child’s birth. I do believe she brought some good to the experience but I would not do it again. I had a male OB and ended up trusting him more than I trusted the doula. I have found a new OB/Gyn and think he is a narcissist. He is an amazing doctor and that is what I care about. He has female partners I have seen and they are empathic and kind and wonderful. I know he doesn’t understand and hasn’t experienced what I do/have experienced, but his knowledge and ability to explain has led to me trusting him and his suggestions. He is also very patient and understanding of my concerns, which takes a special kind. LOL

            I do hear reasons why other women will not go to a man for routine or childbirth. I understand the personal preference. It doesn’t mean that they don’t think a man can’t do it. I know some who are very devout in certain beliefs and one is that only her husband can see certain parts and not other males. I know others who want to feel like her doctor has experienced and can understand, through the personal experiences, how best to handle childbirth, etc. It really is about the ability to bond and trust the staff in that particular area.

            I am trying to teach my child, it isn’t about the gender that makes a person better at one thing or another as we are all equal. It is about each person’s abilities in what would be best suited for each individual.

          42. HG Tudor says:

            Well stated.

          43. Renarde says:

            Hey Getting There

            Please do feel free to add your comments. The more the merrier!

            I’m always sad to read of women who havnt had a positive birth experience. Both of mine were brilliant. One of the females I knew had a horrific experience whilst training. Good God. The baby died during delivery. I dont think she ever got over it and it really knocked her confidence.

            Your point on the double was intresting and upsetting considering they are meant to be your advocate when you may not be thinking rationally because of the pain.

            I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. It’s about the bond. In my view, there is a huge difference between when a doctor becomes involved vs the midwife.

            Are you US? When I had mine in the UK it was the norm NOT to see an OBs. I think i may have done once during one pregnancy but that was due to a condition I have – autoimmune based.

            I just scratch my head at the over medicalisation of childbirth itself. But I appreciate that is another argument.

          44. Chihuahuamum says:

            Im just following along the midwife conversation….HG did you stat youve pulled teeth out before? 😱

          45. HG Tudor says:

            Yes as you can see from what I have written.

          46. Renarde says:


            Yeah, they were mine. Did you not see our discussion? 🤣🤣🤣

          47. Chihuahuamum says:

            Why did you remove teeth HG?

          48. HG Tudor says:

            For the purposes of control.

          49. Lorelei says:

            My question too but was afraid to ask. Why are teeth being pulled?

          50. HG Tudor says:

            For control, as previously answered.

          51. Lorelei says:

            Let’s act like this never came up. Feeling kinda out there. I like my teeth.

          52. HG Tudor says:

            Your teeth are safe, Lorelei.

          53. Lorelei says:

            Thank you. Having them pulled would disqualify me from seducing my current victim.

          54. Pati says:

            HG ,your welcome to come and pull out my daughters baby teeth. I am chicken to do it and hope they will just fall out on their own. Any ideas?
            However i need the tooth back for the tooth fairy.

          55. Witch says:

            Hi Renarde,
            You might be interested in a book called “of woman born: motherhood as experience and institution” by Adrienne Rich
            She provides an historical analysis on European midwifery and how male doctors created harmful practices in the past and ignored the objections of female midwives.

          56. Renarde says:

            Bless you Witch!

            I will look into that.

            Thank you very much! X

          57. Witch says:

            No problem Renarde,
            I resonate with a lot of what you said. My narc mum was the most supportive she’s ever been when my sister was giving birth because she had a lot of experience with birthing children herself, the midwife barely needed to get involve except to check how far she was dilated. So I agree that experience can be very valuable. Not with every person, but it’s a component.

            I have been examined by a male nurse before because I was being opening minded and it was really painful. He shoved the instrument in really fast and my fanny hole was sore for the rest of the day. Sometimes one terrible experience leaves a lasting impression. Now I’m not sure if I would be comfortable being examined by a guy again.

          58. Renarde says:


            Oh honey, that’s terrible! Awful! No therapy can ever take that away. He assaulted you. No question.

            Now the bugger question is, did he know he was assaulting you when he did it? Very probably not. But that clearly does not help you.

            I’m sorry you experienced that.

          59. Witch says:

            Thanks Renarde,
            He may have just felt uncomfortable examining a female and wanted it to be over quickly and not seem like a “pervert” by taking his time, so I have forgiven him.
            I have also tried speaking to a male GP about vagina issues and he just looked very uncomfortable. So now I would prefer to be seen by a woman.
            I know a guy who has had a bad experience being examined by a woman. So I think in some cases sex segregation is better for everyone involved.

          60. Pati says:

            Witch , going in for a pap test is very uncomfortable. My gynecologist is male. He said to me dont feel that way because men still have to have their prostate examined too.
            I just said to myself hurry up so i can leave lol.

          61. Witch says:

            Was he trying to imply that men have it worse? There was really no need for him to even compare the two issues.
            We call it “smear test” here. My smear test was done by a woman and I didn’t feel anything but a couple of hours after, I could feel an abrasion inside of me and I started panicking and had to leave work early and go home to cry. I should be due for another one by now. I’m so bad at keeping up with appointments.

          62. Pati says:

            Hi Witch
            I know the comment wasnt neccessary. I guess he tried making me feel comfortable.
            It sounds like your doctor was rough with you.
            I dont think you should of felt this way after the regular pap smear test.
            I hate going and i am also due.
            I hope the next one goes better for you.
            Hugs my dear

          63. Renarde says:


            It is a tricky one, isnt it? But I’ll throw in that I once saw a female Dr because I’d worked out that my period was far heavier than it should be been.

            She needed to work on her bedside manner. I felt incredibly dismissed.

          64. Hope says:

            What?! I haven’t had kids but I’m pretty sure the gyno isn’t supposed to be messing around in the butt-hole.?

            I’ve had male and female gynos. I liked the young gay male and the old woman. I felt weird with the middle-aged men and younger women.

            My sister is empathic to the degree she can feel energy. The contagion. But extreme. She had to get surgery for endometriosis cysts. She says the drugs only paralyzed her but she was still conscious and could feel things. She could feel the energy everyone in the room staring at her. There was a woman who was really rough with her when cleaning her parts with iodine and she felt her critical energy. She felt a guy in there getting off on her. He was a creepy student. She felt good energy from the doctor but the energy from all the other people in the room was overwhelming. She also can’t socialize normally because all the negative energy from people exhaust her. It’s really tragic to hear about but fascinating to consider. She has an energy healer doctor and she says that she can feel my sisters energy penetrating hers and it feels invasive. My sister doesn’t do it consciously. She wishes she could stop it. She dissassociated from abuse as a child and now her body sometimes releases the memories and feels the trauma as if it was occurring now but her mind doesn’t remember. It’s very scary for her. The surgery brought the physical manifestations back to her consciousness. Her body remembered and her mind doesn’t understand. It’s so hard to understand. I wish I knew how to help her heal her past she can’t even remember.

          65. NarcAngel says:

            If you’re referring to “fanny”, that doesn’t mean the same thing everywhere. It was the right hole lol.

          66. Hope says:

            Oh, really? Lol. Yes I know that term as an old-fashioned term for your behind.

            I’m American–wish I could hear you all speaking.. spent a tour alongside some Royal Marines and Whooooo! Not just a sight to see but just listening to them speak. It’s an experience. They were very fun to be around as they never quite grew apart from their childish vigor and always had a lot of fun often leaving us American types mouth gaping in shock and awe. There were British women forces there too. They were also fascinating, extremely mature by contrast, lively, and fun to hear speak.

          67. Chihuahuamum says:

            “For the purposes of control”…😱 eek care to share the story with us HG???

          68. Whitney says:

            Chihuahuamum I read the whole thing and that’s exactly what I wanted to ask!! Has he pulled teeth out. I thought no, it must be an example. I shouldn’t ask, I shouldn’t take the example literally. Omg HG 😱😭🙌

          69. Renarde says:


            Seriously, I love you but equally seriously, he’s ripping the piss!

            HG has an UNBELIEVABLE sense of humour.

          70. Notme! says:

            Unless the male midwife has nice, soft, girl sized hands I wouldn’t want him.

          71. Renarde says:


            Now that’s funny. My female midwife ersatz fisted me. Good job too, she was trying to get my baby out. I trusted her.

            The look of delight and relief on pictures captured after the event speaks volumes.

          72. Chihuahuamum says:

            I hope you used anesthetic lol bad one sorry 😄
            I hope one day you decide to share the story with us HG

          73. HG Tudor says:

            I will.

          74. Renarde says:


            I have myriad birthing stories. All are amusing. I absolutely stand with females who have suffered.

            HG has been very norty. Just because I say you do not need a ‘qualification’ to deliver a baby does not mean in any way shape or form that I am casting dispersion on males or females that choose to be medically qualified. That’s wrong. End of.

            Maybe I will regale narcsite with the time inside an ambulance I did a spectacular technicolor yawn.

            Thankyou Chi for your kindness. X

          75. HG Tudor says:

            Hg has not been naughty. He has corrected your inaccuracy, Renarde.

          76. Renarde says:


            Ahh..pax, Henry Tudor x

          77. Getting There says:

            Thank you, HG.

            Hello, Renarde.

            I am sorry to hear about your friend! I can’t imagine the pain of losing a child at any stage. To give birth and go home empty handed with all your dreams with this child gone. That is beyond sad!

            That’s great that you had two great birth experiences! I enjoy hearing about good ones, without the bloody details (literal blood). I’m sorry about your illness.

            I am in the US. There are people like me who see an OB/Gyn for all stuff that falls in that specialty; and there are others who prefer midwives for pregnancies and will not see a doctor for anything. I have multiple friends who prefer home births. I don’t even want to think of the clean up after that.

            If I had chosen to ignore his advice and follow the doula, I don’t know what the repercussions would have been but believe that he at least saved my child’s life if not also mine. In times of emergency, empathy is good in explaining the need for the next step, in my opinion. I didn’t need my doctor to cry and hold my hand with my tears. I needed a “this has to be done and this is why.” Whether he was a narcissist or not, male and not female,
            it didn’t matter in that moment that actually mattered. She did provide good in some ways, and I am thankful for her for those. The other stuff I could have done without.

            My current male doctor agree with all that I have asked, which is frustrating. Then I find out that it can be more harm than good if done. Yes it is my choice in my decisions but sometimes my decisions are emotional based and his are logical and knowledge based. He doesn’t care about how much happier I will be in the short term; he cares about my long term heath. That is just one aspect in what helps me in trusting him.

          78. Violetta says:

            Renarde: I’ve had female gyns who yelled at me or made me bleed with the speculum. I’ve also had great female gyns.

            My present gyn is male, and he has that third ear, sixth sense, whatever you want to call it, to go in at the correct angle, which is different in every woman.

            I think this is a case-by-case thing. One specialist I consulted a few years back was almost certainly gay. He was an excellent doctor. I was wondering later why he’d picked this field, and a friend suggested he might have had a beloved family member with gynecological problems, just as some doctors go into oncology because someone they loved suffered from tumors.

          79. Renarde says:


            You are probably correct in so much he wanted to help. That resonates with me.

          80. Violetta says:

            As it happens, female midwives had a better patient survival rate than male doctors in the 19th century, not because they were female, but because the male doctors had been performing autopsies and not sterilizing their hands. (This was before germ theory was accepted.)

            Ignaz Semmelweis–a male–was laughed at when he said physicians should disinfect their hands between patients. He died miserably in an insane asylum, but later, Pasteur and Lister–also male–were able to back up his theories with evidence.

            Competence or lack thereof is not gendered. I do understand why some women feel uncomfortable with male gyns, whether for cultural or personal reasons, and I would understand a male feeling similarly about female proctologists.

          81. HG Tudor says:

            I would imagine that since women (generally) have smaller hands than men, a female proctologist would actually be preferred.

          82. Renarde says:


            Very wise words. Indeed, I was thinking myself upon the female proctoligist route. But as HG had his hair on, I thought better of it.

            I’ve never sparred properly with the Boss and it was an enlightening experience. A good experience because knowledge is power and if I’m being a cunt I want to be told thusly. And accurately. No whimsical word shenanigans.

            You make an intresting point re hygiene. I didnt know that!

            Violetta, you are a positive fountain of knowledge!

            Thank you.

          83. HG Tudor says:

            You were not being a cunt, Renarde. You had a discussion, that is what this place is for.

          84. Whitney says:

            Aw Renarde love 💕 Yes HG’s the funniest person in the world. But I think he did torture someone by pulling their teeth! I would LOVE to do the same to certain people, like child abusers. HG is a hero protecting us.

          85. Renarde says:


            Hes a great guy. No pun intended. Hes helped me.

          86. Violetta says:

            Renarde: Thank you, but I’m afraid my knowledge is eclectic rather than thorough. I picked up things from reading my parents’ books or watching PBS because too many of our teachers were Angels, either Dirty-faced or Overwhelming.

            Don’t feel bad about debating an issue with Da Boss. At least you didn’t confuse your football clubs.

          87. Renarde says:


            That’s funny. On the football clubs I mean. I tend to stay out i
            of that one because up north, it becomes religious. Seriously religious. Does he like Chelsea?

            I quite like PBS

          88. Violetta says:

            Renarde: Manchester City. Not to be confused with Man U, unless you want to be Room 101’ed, complete with Celine Dion on repeat (which adds insult to injury).

          89. Renarde says:


            Oh City? Proddy then, I’d say?

            As to Dion, well, shes rather ghastly, isnt she?

          90. Violetta says:


            The speculum is nasty, but the Pap smear itself shouldn’t hurt at all. Get another doctor.

        5. Pati says:

          Dont forget Kevin Murphy

        6. mollyb5 says:

          If you look like a porn star …he will like innocence …if you have big boobs he will look at and triangulate with small breasted girls , or visa versa. He will only “act” attracted to what looks popular or gets “him”noticed in public . So he looks like he’s winning. If the attention from others starts to lessen …he will want someone with another look . The narc really doesn’t care what the fuck you look like ! ? So look the way “you” want to look .

          1. Lorelei says:

            I need to be careful talking about porn stars! Someone will say we are denigrating woman and setting back the movement 100 years. Celebrate it, embrace it and let’s all adopt the look.

          2. NarcAngel says:

            Pffft. I’ll say what I like. Everyone else does.

          3. Lorelei says:

            I know they do. I actually went to a store today and bought a dog bed. Why is this relevant? Because my anxiety wasn’t off the charts. People have no idea what they don’t know the entire story of. Just make judgements and cast views which are none of their business because looking the other way is too obvious a solution!

          4. FoolMe1Time says:

            So right now you should be looking the other way. 😘🙃

          5. Lorelei says:

            Which way? Up, down? I’m supposed to be reading right now and I cleaned an oven instead. I have five articles left to peruse and then synthesize my thoughts into literary brilliance for submission. Yet, lighting candles and cleaning stoves feels more “right” right now.

          6. FoolMe1Time says:

            Then do what feels right!

          7. Lorelei says:

            Progress made. Now my thoughts can flow in a billowy cloud of word salad.

      2. Liza says:

        i’m a woman and i know nothing about hair, i stoped styling my hair the day my mom stoped styling it for me ( to tell the truth i declared that i could do it alone, and i found that i couldn’t, but my pride wouldn’t alow me to ask her to do it again).
        now, i rely on a friend to chose for me, and he is a boy ( and he is not gay).

        1. njfilly says:

          Ok. I stand corrected again. Apparently some men do know about hair!

          You can learn how to style your own hair. I’m glad your friend is helping you.

          1. Liza says:

            i tried to style it, but my surounding made it clear that my deffinition of style is not really welecom.
            and being the lazy me, i’m ok with having my friend chose something for me, go 3 times a year to the haire styler with a picture, and let them do the job.

          2. njfilly says:


            I don’t understand what you mean about your surroundings. I assume you mean the people around you are unsupportive? I’m sorry about that.

            I’m glad you are happy having your friend help. I used to take photos to the stylist for many years as well. There is nothing wrong with that anyway.

          3. Soon to be sparkling! says:

            Short back and sides is a type of male haircut. It’s a very refined/clean cut look.

            Either done with scissors (correct) or clippers (incorrect) at the “back and sides” and left longer on top and finally blended together.

            It also goes very well with a straight razor shave and a straight razor edged finish.

            But it’s only for the finest of gentlemen.

            He was suggesting that men do know about hair. Or at least, that some do.

            I was a barber/hairdresser before I went into health care. 😉

          4. HG Tudor says:

            Hello Sweeney!

          5. Soon to be sparkling! says:

            Hello yourself!

            It amused me so much HG, that in true NPD style, you dropped the comment but declined to elaborate on request.

            Hahaha! You fabulous bastard 😉

          6. HG Tudor says:

            Yes Fabulous Bastard, my Friday night name.

          7. Soon to be sparkling! says:

            Not just for special occasions then?

            Besides, it’s Monday HG.

          8. HG Tudor says:

            Monday´s label for HG is Brutal Yet Beautiful.

          9. Soon to be sparkling! says:

            I can and will agree to brutal, HG.

            Are you beautiful?

          10. HG Tudor says:

            In the way I work.

            I am more handsome, than beautiful.

          11. Soon to be sparkling! says:

            Then I can and will, agree again. There is beauty to the way you work.

            Of course you’re handsome!
            I picture Simon Cowell.

          12. HG Tudor says:

            I am offended.

          13. Soon to be sparkling! says:

            Haha, no you’re not, HG!

            But if you are, then please accept my apologies 🌹and forgive me, as it was either the lovely Simon, or Jeff Goldblum (as he is in Mister Frost).

            Tough call when we have to imagine. So, I imagined!

            No throwing cakes my way please. 🍰

          14. Pati says:

            HG , i am sure you dont look like Simon Cowell but I think he may be your kind.

          15. NarcAngel says:

            I’m pretty sure Simon Cowell wears a girdle and gets his hair cut at the hardware store for 2 bucks a corner.

          16. Soon to be sparkling! says:

            Haha NarcAngel!

            The world’s a crazy place, apparently! 😉

            But the rich definitely don’t get hacksaw haircuts, haha!

            It’s probably cut by naked Swedish twins with a fancy for ass slapping and coke 😜

          17. Pati says:

            Oh HG yes you are handsome . Hey good looking whats cooking lol!

          18. HG Tudor says:

            Schemes. That’s what’s cooking.

          19. Pati says:

            Lots of planning for the holidays. Good luck HG

          20. HG Tudor says:

            I never need luck.

          21. Pati says:

            Thats ok i wish you luck anyways if thats ok.
            Happy Holidays 🌲

          22. Renarde says:

            Shush HG! I like her pies…

          23. njfilly says:


            Sounds like a very nice look for a man. Thank you for the information.

            Yes, I was corrected. Men do know about women’s hair. Also how to run their fingers through it and pull it.

            I have much respect for barbers and hairdressers. I hope you are enjoying your new career.

          24. Soon to be sparkling! says:

            Hiya njfilly,

            When you see a dashing businessman, look at his hair. That is a short back and sides.

            They always sport the most appealing look. Very refined. Very attractive. Oh! Swoon!!

            I do miss hair pulling actually! Though I’m not opposed to pulling my own on occasion! Cue the lip biting moments! 😉

            I have little respect for the hairdressers I’ve known. A gossiping and self obsessed bunch that was hell to be around. I always loved the work, because it made people feel good about themselves, but I never enjoyed the company.

            Picture being in one room, all day, every day, surrounded by judgemental and egotistical women…..?

            But thankyou! Because yes!! Yes!! Yes!! I love health care! It’s my happy place and I wish I had found it as a teen. It’s so me and I don’t feel like I work. I feel like I get paid to give and receive warmth. It’s my heaven.

            Love makes the world go round afterall!
            Er…or it is money and power? I forget!
            So I’ll stick with love ❤️❤️❤️

          25. njfilly says:

            1) Yes, I love dashing businessmen. Also rugged handsome men. Yum.
            2) Very funny. I like to be spanked and have my hair pulled often. My narc-ex was actually very good at it. As far as pulling my own hair; well, I do what must be done.
            3) I’m very sorry you did not enjoy your fellow hairdressers. It doesn’t sound like a fun environment. I love my current colorist/stylist. We also get into some very deep animated conversations. I love going there and respect her very much.
            4) It sounds like you have found your place in the health care field. I’m happy for you that you love it so much. It must make life and the work easier.
            5) I’m not sure what makes the world go round. It might be “the pursuit of…….”

          26. Pati says:

            My hairstylist knows my whole life , except tbat my husband is a Narcissist.

          27. njfilly says:


            Mine does too. I’m there so often for 2-3 hours at a time so we have plenty of time to talk.

            I’m sorry your husband is a narcissist. It might not be worth discussing that anyway since they can’t help you, and they may not understand, which would be very frustrating. At least to me it would be.

          28. Pati says:

            Nifilly , it true no one will understand me ,yhe only person who does right now is HG. I am planning on getting out .

          29. njfilly says:

            Dear Pati,

            I am sorry if you feel misunderstood and sorry for what you are going through.

            I hope you escape. I’m glad Mr. HG Tudor is helping you. He is super terrific.

          30. Pati says:

            Hi Njfilly,
            HG is the best,if it wasnt for him I would fall.into depression.

          31. Soon to be sparkling! says:

            The internal pursuit of happiness 🙂☀️

          32. njfilly says:

            The constant chasing of one’s tail.

            I hope you find happiness.

          33. Soon to be sparkling! says:

            Thank you njfilly.

            I think I have! You too!

          34. FoolMe1Time says:

            I don’t know about it being for the finest of gentlemen? Perhaps in the UK? My 3 year old Grandson wears this style quite well and although we are working on him some day being quite the gentlemen, right now he is just a full out run, jump, screaming, playing, dirty faced little boy! 🙃

          35. Soon to be sparkling! says:

            I’ve always found that it is a statement in itself. A beautiful style, that I personally adore. Men can’t do as much as women to present themselves as stylish.

            Your son sounds so cute! 😘 Get in that mud with him girl!

          36. Lorelei says:

            FoolMe—I’m referencing this thread the next time I’m told on for being 100’shades of superficial messed up narcissist dangerous evil.. It’s a very hairy thread. Very hairy indeed.

          37. Violetta says:

            These are my friends
            See how they glisten
            See this one shine
            How he smiles
            In the light
            My friend!
            My faithful friend!

          38. Liza says:

            no they are not unsuportive, i just tend to be incompetent in the beauty field, i’m the kind of person who manages to mess up even a simple braid.
            with time it became less important for me, and i found that i like it when it is just cut in a simple fashion and left alone.

          39. njfilly says:


            I’m glad you have found something that you like. It’s probably very easy to care for.

          40. Witch says:

            HG the way you’re talking, you better be on Luke Goss’ level of handsome or all your lady fans are going to be disappointed.
            This is why I try to appear humble so people have low expectations and then I exceed the expectations lol

          41. njfilly says:


            I didn’t know who Luke Goss was so I had to look him up. Yes, very nice! I I have never seen him in a movie. I don’t watch many movies.

            Good idea with being humble and exceeding expectations!

            I would not be disappointed if Mr. Tudor were not handsome, although he says that he is and I know he likes accuracy.

          42. Witch says:

            Luke Goss is sexy AF and I hope he’s an empath because he comes across as humble in his interviews. His identical twin Matt Goss gives me narc vibes so I don’t care for him.
            Luke Goss was the anti-hero elf in hell boy 2. I’ve seen that movie amount 50 times because I even fancied him as an elf and I understood why he wanted to exterminate the human race.

          43. Pati says:

            Luke Goss is ok . I still prefer Daniel Craig.

          44. HG Tudor says:

            Very sensible

          45. Pati says:

            Thank you HG!

          46. Witch says:

            that’s okay Pati. Daniel Craig does absolutely nothing for me.
            Luke Goss is cute, handsome, sexy, mysterious and he comes across as kind and humble to me.
            Daniel Craig just looks like an arrogant prick to me, I’m sorry

          47. Pati says:

            Thats ok Witch dont be sorry sweetheart, everyone is entiltled to their own opinion. Daniel Craig is sexy for me. I always thought so.
            He was sexy in the movie The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. Just my opinion.

          48. njfilly says:

            Yes he is very sexy looking. So is Daniel Craig. (I had to look him up on google too).

            It’s interesting you can get empath and narc vibes from those brothers.

          49. Witch says:

            Compare their Instagram accounts and they have very different presentations. Luke’s Instagram is more candid, updating fans on what he is working on, wishing people a merry Christmas, he doesn’t even have the blue tick.
            Matt’s account, all his pictures are edited and have a filter on it, he appears to care about his image a lot more, it’s like a females account.
            And in interviews Matt just gives me narc vibes.
            In my opinion Luke is a very good actor who is underrated and he should have a lot more recognition than what he does.
            Matt is a mediocre singer who comes across as shallow and seems to want to hold on to the “bros” era a lot more than Luke does, he also seems to want to depend on his looks to get him by more than what Luke does.

          50. HG Tudor says:

            Never mind these two show ponies, what about Craig “Ken” Logan?

          51. Witch says:

            I had to google him, are you talking about looks or narc vibes?

          52. HG Tudor says:

            I thought you were a fan of Bros and you had to google him?

          53. Witch says:

            HG I’m not a fan of bros lol
            I just perv on Luke Goss because he is eye candy and I fancy Prince Nuada

          54. HG Tudor says:


          55. Witch says:

            Watch the movie then maybe you will understand. Prince Nuada is iconic!
            “Sit down, proud, empty, hollow things that you are! Let this remind you, why you once feared the dark…”

          56. njfilly says:


            I was never on instagram and I joined only to follow Mr. HG Tudor and he is the only account I view.

            What is the blue tick? Interesting comparison. I’m not familiar with the “bros”. Do you have an instagram account?

          57. Witch says:

            The blue tick is verification that it is the celebrity’s personal Instagram account, but it’s also a bit of a status thing on social media.
            Yes I use Instagram, I like to view funny memes and videos

          58. njfilly says:

            Thank you. I did not know that.

      3. Pati says:

        Very stylish i like that !

        1. njfilly says:

          Thank you! I get many compliments on my hair. One man referred to it as a lion’s mane, which I loved.

          1. HG Tudor says:

            Not a horse’s mane NJfilly?

          2. njfilly says:

            I would have accepted that compliment as well.

            I am both a wild and free filly, and a brave and strong lioness. (If I do say so myself).

          3. Pati says:

            It must be healthy . I always wondered why people have long hair and it looks damaged.
            I told my daughter you need to cut at least 4 inches off your hair for it to look healthy. She got mad and said no she likes it long. I told her 4 inches is not short. She got into another argument with me . I was done at that point.

          4. njfilly says:


            Yes my hair is very healthy. I do spend quite a bit of time and money on it, and I use lots of oils and serums. I tell my friends it’s like a hobby or a pet.

            I understand what you mean about it looking damaged. But I also understand not wanting to lose any of the length. That’s where I am at now, too. It’s all about the length. When my hair dresser trims my ends she takes off less than an inch every other time. She also suggested taking off a few inches to freshen it up. I haven’t done it yet.

          5. Pati says:

            Even trimming the ends will keep it looking healthy and its better than trimming it at all .
            Plus using hair treatments will help.

          6. njfilly says:

            Yes, trimming does help.

        2. Lorelei says:

          I’m loving Idris Elba. I wouldn’t throw Daniel Craig out of bed though. I have a weakness for attractive men. It’s a curse.

          1. Pati says:

            Hes cute. I still prefer Daniel Craig

    3. Lorelei says:

      Pati—I love talking about hair styles:) Oops!

      1. njfilly says:

        Me too. I love hair!

      2. Pati says:

        Thats ok me too!

    4. Hope says:

      What’s wrong with looking like a porn star? I would have enjoyed that coming from a partner. Given me a little pep in my step and flash of a mischievous smile.

      I’ve enjoyed in the past being able to seduce and turn on a guy I’m into. It makes me feel empowered. But empowered in a way that means I’m able to provide something valuable. Something unique. It’s power, but I imagine it’s a different feeling than a narc although I do feel fueled by it. It fuels my passion and desire. Knowing I’m pleasing him makes me more enthusiastic as well. I take great pride in my skill.

      The only time I would take that as an insult is if the hair looked obviously bad, like white fried-ends contrasted with stark dark-roots, or it was directed at fake gross boobs, or big botchy lips. If you know you look good, to me, it’s a compliment.

      I know when I look good. If a guy doesn’t appreciate it, or recognize it when I’ve put effort into it –its a huge turn off. I may even get passive-aggressive after a guy pretends not to notice or doesn’t notice by ensuring I get appreciated elsewhere. Whether it be in person or a social media post. Other times, I just take pictures for myself and keep them in my phone. A lot of times, I take pictures to encourage them beforehand if I’ve planned to meet them and have taken time out of my day in preparation. To turn them on throughout the day so they will be fired up to meet me or to encourage them to reconsider if they are trying to reschedule. Then, if they upset me I still have the pictures and can just use them for other people if I’m still fired up but disappointed. I’m very loyal, until I’m mistreated, and then I become more “I’ll take what I can get” and try not to invest too much, even though I didn’t realize that isn’t practical. I always end up more emotionally invested than I intended to become. It was like, the worse it got, the more I wanted to prove him wrong about me, fix him, or heal him. Tragic, when you think about it from an enlightened perspective thanks to this blog.

  12. ThePolicyOfTruth says:

    In reality though, control aside, do you actually have a genuine personal preference of hair colour and length on a woman, HG?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Or short.
      Or red.
      Or brunette.
      Or ash blonde.
      Or platinum blonde.
      Or chestnut.

      1. Soon to be sparkling! says:

        Ever agreeable and difficult.

        All bases covered. Haha

      2. Dorion says:

        But no raven black? That’s sad. I was raven black between my mid teens to mid-30’s. No surprise no narcs applied.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          All colours.

          As explained in the article.

        2. Renarde says:


          Excuse me? I’m raven. I can’t stop attracting them. Poor me.

          Boo hoo.

          Cheer up lovely, you could be a narc! That really is one to be crying into your hair dye for!

          1. Hope says:

            I always thought the girl from Smallville with really dark hair was gorgeous. The girl that Kent was pining for all the time. I forget the name of her character. Shocking the less attractive blond character ended up being a leader in a sex slave cult in real life. She must be a narc. Allison Mack. I thinks that’s her name.

          2. Renarde says:


            And I truly hope you live up to your self ascribed moniker.

            Yes. Blondes are bad. Everyone knows this.

            P.S Apologies to blondes on here. You have a free hall pass.

    2. MB says:

      TPOT, did you read The Three That Got Away. They were all VERY different. And that was only three. It’s all about the fuel.

      1. Pati says:

        Your right MB fuel rules!

      2. ThePolicyOfTruth says:

        MB I did read it. I realise narcs would obtain fuel from anybody, hair aside. I just wondered if deep down HG actually had a genuine preference.

        After all, narcs have preferences. He clearly can’t stand Celine Dion’s songs 😉

        1. HG Tudor says:

          Except when I love Celine.

          1. Violetta says:

            Oh come on HG, even you can’t fake that.

            And what quality of fuel would you get from someone who really loves Celine, (or thinks she does, since fake emoting songs must trigger fake emoting reactions)?

            Or do you figure you’ll give the fuel source a taste of real misery to counteract all that fairness?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            I get no fuel from someone loving Celine.
            I get no fuel from someone hating Celine.

          3. Pati says:

            Thats what I like most about your blog you are fair and honest HG!

          4. HG Tudor says:

            And the best provider of information about narcissism in the world.

          5. NarcAngel says:

            “And the best provider of information about narcissism in the world.”

            Fucking A!
            (Fucking A! eh? for the Canadians).

          6. Pati says:

            Yes NA for the Canadians ! 🤩

          7. AnneB says:

            Narc Angel, Haha, funny! So to continue: “Fuck, yeah!” for the Australians and [sounds like] “Fecking A!” or maybe “Feck, yeah!” for the NZedians 🙂

          8. AnneB says:

            On reflection, more likely “Fuck, yeah, maaaaaa…te !” for the Austs.

          9. AnneB says:

            “Focking Ah! da” for the Russians…stopping now as I could go on an on ad nauseum in this mood.

          10. Pati says:

            The best provider of Narcissism in the planet and Universe.

          11. HG Tudor says:


          12. Liza says:

            when i just knew the narcissist, i asked him if he was always in a good mood. ( i’v never saw him gloomy at that point)
            he said: yes, yes, unlless i’m in a bad mood.
            it is still one of the funiest things i’v heard in my life.

          13. Pati says:

            You love Celion Dion HG really? You must be still in the Golden Period. Cheers to that one 🥂

          14. HG Tudor says:

            I hate Celine Dion.

          15. Pati says:

            That i know, i was only joking HG, but what if SM bought concert tickets would you go with her?

          16. HG Tudor says:

            It would depend on whether I deemed it appropriate to do so.

          17. Pati says:

            Fair enough .

          18. FoolMe1Time says:

            What he means by that Pati is, would the fuel he would receive by going to that concert, be worth the pain his ears would be put through?

          19. Pati says:

            FM1T, there are always ear plugs !, and excusing yourself to go to the bathroom.
            I cant imagine HG at a Celion Dion concert.
            Can you imagine if she would call him up to sing to him while he was sitting on a chair.
            I would love to see the reaction on HG face.

          20. HG Tudor says:

            My reaction would be glock.

          21. Pati says:

            HG, i take it then it would be the end of her singing career, and then she can join her.
            Husband .
            Why am i saying this i feel bad.

          22. Violetta says:

            Sorry, “a taste of real misery to counteract all that FAKENESS”

            Only speculating, but I doubt Se Scyldmægd would descend to that level.

            Lesley, on the other hand….

          23. PrincessSuperEmpath says:

            Dearest HG: I am one of the few people that also hate Celine Dion, the entertainer. I was looking at designer brand Celine Handbags on ebay yesterday, because someone mentioned that brand to me, and Celine Dion handbags also actually came up in the search. I could not believe it. I was horrified. and I closed the ebay window on my computer. I lost all mood for looking at handbags. And now, I do not want to buy, neither own a hand bag by the luxury designer Celine. The 2 different Celines have merged in my mind now. Ebay really should have a warning alarm in a case like this, when Celine Dion may actually appear in a search, for the other Celine, and therefore destroys the shopping and viewing mood. Shudders.

          24. Renarde says:


            Ha ha! That’s fucking funny!

            Celine Dion handbags? Heard it all now courtesy of narcsite!

          25. Lorelei says:

            Princess—it’s fun you are still looking at handbags! I’m waiting on a shipment of some I am attempting to smuggle into the country but that is a situation I will only divulge at a later time that involved me having a near panic attack in a post office! Here’s a find for you—get a Montblanc bag! Shake it up!

          26. Violetta says:

            HG, have you ever seen the South Park episode that featured Celine Dion (voiced by Trey Parker, which might be considerably more bearable than the actual one)? It’s called “Terrance and Phillip in Not Without My Anus.”

          27. HG Tudor says:


          28. Pati says:

            HG ,prefers Whitney Houston

  13. Chihuahuamum says:

    Ive had the narc use many traits against me and they will no matter how ridiculous! One day theyll triangulate you with a skinny girl the next with a heavier girl whichever they think will get you feeling insecure.
    When we first got together i was in good shape and have always taken care of my body but i wasnt in the best shape i could be in and have now achieved that both internally and externally. Back then he would triangulate me with pictures of a certain celeb who is very thin and graceful. I felt fat next to her and thought he liked really thin willowy women. I was not fat at all but didnt feel my body shape fit that template. Fast forward to now i am moreso that body shape and very healthy but he will make remarks like he wants me to gain 30 pounds insinuating im too thin. What he doesnt realise is ive transformed my health for me and not to impress him! The telltale is now hes incorporating what ive been doing so hes obviously impressed and wants the same for himself.
    Using the traits against you shows insecurity. Narcs are so afraid that a victim will gain too much confidance and dump their ass thats why they choose victims with inward damage. They choose those they can control or conquer.
    He has used so much triangulation over the years and i see it for what it is…insecurity. Theyre so afraid of losing control as a result of the victim gaining self confidance.

    1. Hope says:

      Do they always target ones with inner damage or do they sometimes start fresh and innocent and then proceed to create that damage all on their own? Someone had to make the first slice, create the first scar tissue, it probably wasn’t a normal.

      1. HG Tudor says:

        Hope, if you read Sitting Target, the “inner damage” element is explained there and this will answer your question in detail.

  14. Witch says:

    HG if Roger is gay and he likes it, your opinion is invalid

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Your comment makes no sense.

      1. Witch says:

        It was just a joke based on the stereotype that gay men have better taste than straight men. Gawd!

        1. HG Tudor says:


          1. Witch says:

            Here’s a more productive comment: your articles always remind me of how greatful I am to be narc free.
            The first narc didn’t like it when I got dressed up or wore anything revealing because he didn’t want other men to look at me. I rebelled and wore whatever I wanted and this caused on-going arguments throughout the relationship specifically about how I dressed.
            Being with a narcissist is so exhausting and suffocating.
            Gay men thought I looked great though so his opinion was invalid 😆

          2. HG Tudor says:

            1. What the first narc said to you was what he believed, but that was just an excuse (although he did not know this) which was used for the real purpose, to exert control over you. He had to control you and he did so by triangulating you with regard to the views of other men about you and by telling you how to dress.
            2. You coped with his assertion of control by accepting the opinion of others over his, the “others” just happened to be gay.

          3. Witch says:

            Hi HG,
            I was still joking about the gay thing (sorry I know I’m an annoying clown)
            But yes it was all to assert control over me as his property. He would even try to control what music I could listen to and want friends I could have. He would want to know what conversations I was having with my best friend, and would try to look over my shoulder to read our messages.
            Over time i grew to hate being in his presence. When he tried to kiss me I felt sick.
            Because I wasn’t responding how he wanted me to he suggested that he leave and I was like “YES!”
            Then he tried to have sex with me the night before he was due to move out, this made me feel disgusted and I rejected him. I know trying to have sex was his last attempt at trying to assert control over me.
            He never hoovered me after he left though as he probably knew it wouldn’t have worked and would have been a waste of effort.

          4. HG Tudor says:

            I understood you were mentioning it in a joking manner, I still wanted to provide the interpretation.

  15. Liza says:

    the narcissist i know, is obsessed with the same type of women, me and all the girls i know were with him are exactly the same type.
    me and my predessesor and an other one look like sisters, same haire colore same eyes color, same skin tone, same highth.
    fun fact: even our dad’s jobes are the same.

    1. Soon to be sparkling! says:

      Mine too.

      I was a young and happy version of his wife.

      Creepy. Thank god for hindsight!

      1. Liza says:

        yup! when you discover all those facts it feels really stange.
        i was under the impression that for him it was like, model 1.0 didn’t work, let’s try model 2.0 …ext he changes some options, but the basics are always the same.

        1. Soon to be sparkling! says:


          I wanted to go brunette and he insisted I keep it blonde. Preference or control? I’m guessing control.

          Anyway, I go to his home and see a picture of his lovely wife. Not only is she blonde, we are similar in hair style, eye colour, facial features.

          Creepy actually! But I suppose if I’m honest (cringe) he was also carrying similar features to my partner too, eye colour, facial features etc. And even more creepy still….my dad also had the same eye colour and facial features.

          Great! Wine please! (At 5pm! Hurry up 5pm!).

          1. Liza says:

            it seems that evry move a narcissist makes is for the sake of controle, may be his insisting on having all women on his life as blonds is a way to classifie intimate partners and non intimate partners.
            i admit that even me have a particulare style i like and all my cruches have those features.

            i don’t fall in love with people who look like my dad, and it is not in their best interest to be compared to my father, they will always lamentably fail.

          2. Soon to be sparkling! says:


            I do think there’s truth to that. I’ve gone brunette and cut my hair short as a f*ck you!
            It was spiteful and childish, of course, but I definitely felt a little better after I did it.

            Next time around, I will go for the opposite of my type. Should be a safer choice then. 😉

          3. Liza says:

            ha ha you made laught, i imagine the situation, you are sate here looking at him and thinking to yoursel “i really don’t like this person .. good ! i will make him my lover”

          4. Soon to be sparkling! says:


            Quite right! My type is bad for my sanity.

            So in consideration of my history, the thoughts; “I like him, actually equals, “f*cking run woman!”.

            So if I ever move along to some new love, prerequisites are: I don’t like you, which means you’re rational and functioning and a good guy. Dull and boring? No problem! I’ll add the crazy!

            Solved! 🙄

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