It hurts doesn’t it, when you see we have moved on with indecent haste and entered a new relationship. In the fullness of time you may look back and be thankful that we had turned to someone other than you, but at the moment of knowing that we are with somebody else so soon after discarding you (and even when you escape us it still stings – did you not matter at all?) it hurts you. Of course it does. You invested so much in the concept of us and then we did our level best to warp, batter, twist, burn and destroy what was built. Notwithstanding what has happened, it remains the case that you look on with a mixture of pain and astonishment at how soon we have managed to find somebody else and more to the point, how readily we flaunt this state of affairs through our repeated updates and relationship bulletins.

You should not be surprised at this development however once you begin to understand how we operate. Where you have been discarded, your replacement was already lined-up. We were spending time with your replacement, commencing the triangulation, sowing the seeds of your (invented) psychotic behaviour to them and seducing them ready to switch from you to them as easily as flicking a switch. To us this transition is normal and necessary. To you it offends your sense of honesty and decency. If you managed to escape us before we had found or embedded the replacement primary source you force us to locate and/or embed with urgency. We have been denied our primary source of fuel and need to put in place a new one straight away. The choice may not be perfect (hence why you may be wondering why on earth we are with that person) but be with someone we must and of course we want you to know. There is fuel to still be had from you and misery to unleash against you.

Yet, what is the situation should the shoe be on the other foot? How do we react when we become aware that you have chosen another intimate partner? What is our response?

Often this does not happen for some time. The reasons for this are manifold.

  1. You still want us. The addiction that we have placed inside of you means that irrespective of the abuse and the devaluation, you still want us back. This may be to try and correct what went wrong, it may be because you want the golden period again and/or it is because you have so many unanswered questions.
  2. You do not want anybody else. The impact of our abuse is so great that you can barely get through a day never mind contemplate interacting with another person on an intimate level.
  3. You are concerned that you may be ensnared again and even when you receive well-intentioned approaches from potential suitors, you reject them because you are too uncertain as to their motives. Thus you reject people and would rather not take the chance of being ensnared again.
  4. You wish to focus on yourself and your recovery and do not regard the commencement of a further relationship on an intimate level as conducive to achieving that aim.
  5. You are left feeling that you could not attract anybody else even if you wanted to. Your self-esteem and self-confidence have been shattered and the abuse has taken its toll on your assets and resources leaving you feeling that you are an unappealing prospect to a prospective suitor.
  6. The prospect of a romantic intimate relationship remains far too painful after the experience of being in one with our kind and therefore you decide against raking over old wounds.

We understand that there are these several reasons why you are unlikely to find someone after the Formal Relationship with us has ended. This is part of the reason why we are encouraged to keep coming back and hoovering you because there is unlikely to be somebody else involved who proves an obstacle to us doling out a Benign Follow-Up Hoover and drawing you back into our clutches.

However, it does happen. Some of you take a considerable time before moving on to another relationship for the reasons explained above. Others may move with more speed, not always for the right reasons but that is not what is to be examined here. Indeed, some of you are captured by a different member of our kind, falling victim to the apparent concern and charm exhibited by this white knight when you are still blind to what you entangled with the first time around. How do we feel when we see that you are with somebody else?

The immediate reaction is one of the ignition of fury. You belong to us. Under the terms of the Narcissistic Relationship you belong to us forever and therefore you are not permitted to enter into an intimate relationship with somebody else. That is an implied term of that contractual situation. By choosing somebody else you are telling us that we are not good enough. How dare you commit such a treacherous act? It does not matter that we got rid of you. It does not matter that we were horrible in our treatment of you and nobody (save us) could blame you for getting away from us. The fact is we expect your total loyalty forever. Your choice of someone else as an intimate partner (and this has equal applicability if you choose one parent over another, a sibling over another, or a friend over a narcissistic friend) is a huge affront to us and wounds us considerably. With this fury ignited we will seek fuel, both from our existing primary source and supplementary sources if need be, but we also want to draw this fuel from you and/or your intimate partner. We want to derail what you have got. You are not allowed to be loved by anybody but us. Nobody can make you truly happy, other than us. You will not be treated in the way you deserve to be treated by anybody but us. You are our possession and nobody else is allowed near you. With fury ignited and fuel being gathered to heal the wound caused by this criticism, what is our further response?

  1. You will be smeared to third parties. We will roll out a further smear campaign suggesting you were seeing this person behind our back (even though you may never have even known them when we were together or that it has been three years since you and I were in the Formal Relationship). We tell family, friends and all we can about how treacherous and unfaithful you have been. This gains us fuel and also has the potential to influence how those people treat you, allowing our power to be extended through them.
  2. You will be smeared to your new intimate partner. The lies will flow thick and fast as we look to frighten them off.

“Just thought I should let you know mate she is a gold digger.”

“You won’t know this but he has a serious drink problem. Get out while you can.”

“I hope you are using condoms pal after the amount of men that slut has had.”

“You need to sleep with one eye open, he is a maniac.”

“She won’t be faithful to you, you know. She is a user. Did it to me. She will do it to you.”

“She is a born liar. I bet she told you I am a nutcase didn’t she? Yes, you are nodding. She said the very thing to me about the chap she was seeing before me. She is dangerous. I ended up being hospitalised after the way she treated me. No need to thank me, thought you needed to know.”

“Good luck with that one pal, you will need it. What do I mean. Blimey, where do I start?”

  1. Your new partner will be smeared to you, by us.

“Just thought I should let you know he is a gold digger. I found out that he hasn’t a pot to piss in. I don’t want to think of him taking your money.”

“You won’t know this but she has a serious drink problem. Get out while you can. My friend is a doctor and has seen him being treated for excessive drinking. Just thought you should know.”

“I hope you are making him use condoms after the number of women that manwhore has had.”

“You need to sleep with one eye open, he is a maniac. My mate is a policeman. List of convictions as long as your arm. Of course if you ask him he will deny it, but you know me, I am just looking out for you. I always have done.”

“He won’t be faithful to you, you know. He is a user. Did it to his wife. He will do it to you. How do I know? Friend of a friend.”

“She is a born liar. I bet she told you I am a nutcase didn’t she? She doesn’t even know me and she is saying things about me. Imagine what she will start saying about you? It is only a matter of time.”

“Good luck with that one, you will need it. What do I mean. Blimey, where do I start?”

  1. Expect Benign Follow-Up Hoovers as we assert how much we miss you, how much we want you back, how we are better than this person. If we are content with our primary source this may still be done not to bring you back to us but just to ruin your relationship so you leave that person expecting to come back to us and then we turn our backs on you. All that matters is the fuel from our still functioning new primary source, from your distraught reaction to our behaviour and the knowledge we have messed up your relationship.
  2. Intimidation and malign hoovering in order to cause your new intimate partner to think that it is just not worth the hassle so they end up leaving you. “I do like you, but it is your ex, he scares me and I cannot have him causing problems for me at work, I am sorry, but I have to end things.”

We want to derail your new relationship. We want to control you. We do not want to see you exerting control over your life by choosing to be with someone else. We cannot bear to see you happy knowing that somebody else is causing this. We have to control you and all around us and this extends to affecting your new relationship. We will always look to drive a wedge between you and your new intimate partner, whether through appearing to do the right thing (warning you about this person or asserting we still love you) or by doing a bad thing (making it too much aggravation for both of you to remain together) so that we gain fuel from your reaction and his/her response to this interference and in so doing we exert our power and control, content in the knowledge that you are our possession once again. We must derail your happiness in a new relationship.

49 thoughts on “Derailed

  1. Leigh says:

    I have a question about these comments:
    Mr. Tudor says: The reference to DLSs, Kim was to historic ones. Of course they remain alive but they are shelved by me. I am not interacting with any.

    Kim E says: I am assuming that they are all shelved because of the GP with SM. But do you know if any of the current have escaped while being shelved?

    Mr. Tudor says: No, they have not.

    How can you or any narc, be certain that the DLS or Shelf IPSS hasn’t escaped and moved on? Do all narcissists assume that their DLS’s & IPSS’s are waiting for their narc to reengage and start the formal relationship again?

    1. HG Tudor says:

      1. There is that sense of entitlement owing to the Narcissistic Perspective.
      2. The relevant appliances contact me periodically, therefore I know they have not escaped me. I either ignore or issue a comfort crumb but do not take off the shelf.
      3. Even if they did not contact, the narcissist may throw them a comfort crumb and a response demonstrates non-escape. That is not taking the appliance off the shelf.

      1. Leigh says:

        Very enlightening! Thank you!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are welcome.

      2. Kim e says:

        HG And if one of your DLS had escaped the shelf would you hoover?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          If I deemed it necessary, yes.

          1. Kim e says:

            HG…..Even with SM still in the GP?

          2. HG Tudor says:

            That would mean it would not be deemed necessary.

          3. narccissuss says:

            Your arrogance is hilarious. You just can’t even imagine what I have been doing with all those pussies which belonged to you in your absence.

            I’m dying to see your face when one day you knock on the door of one of those pussies and open it naked with an big erection. And then after taking a look to my between legs and getting bullied for it you ask me: “Where is she?” and I answer you that question with a big smile on my face responding you: “I told you I would come for you but I never told you how I would do it, now all these pussies belong to me Mr. Tudor and it is your viking ex’s turn” hahaha

            But just wait to see the second part of this Grand Design which I have named: “Tudor’s Reality Gap” where I will seduce all your readers and then send you porn videos with every and each of them with the motto: “Just look how useful your work is”


          4. HG Tudor says:

            Your mum says your tea is ready, narccissuss.

  2. E. B. says:

    Hello HG,
    Re: “Share this:” and “Like this”– Desktop version of your blog
    Buttons to like, print, email and share your articles on social media are ‘Disabled’.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Thank you EB, it is being addressed.

      1. E. B. says:

        It is working now. Thank you, HG!

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You’re welcome

      2. Caroline-is-fine says:

        Holy fix-it! I can now reply in a normal way. Thank you, for your patience with my messages to you, HG.

        Crossing my fingers this doesn’t switch back.🙂

        1. HG Tudor says:

          No problem

          1. Caroline-is-fine says:

            Awww…saying “no problem” to me – like a super sweet guy…like you care about me…like…er…oh, never mind. I know better. But thank you!🙂
            (Super freaked + grateful that I can now reply, in a “normal” way…whoever else helped fix this, thank you so ever much).🤗

  3. Contagious says:

    Ok HG my mid range Narc has one other IPPS. His mum. I have learned now sadly through three independent solid sources he has no other relations. I never knew! Not that he has had none. But solo sexually. He admitted it to me during our legal marital separation. He says I am a sex addict who only thinks about sex while the works is dying from the corona virus. I ended the marriage sentence him the rings. Changed my name. Changed social media etc… But he falls into an almost fugue like state. Becomes lost. Nervous breakdown like when I leave. Even his photos show weight loss and ill.not enough fuel? If keeps me there.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Hello Contagious, you can only have one primary source at a time, usually Intimate but sometimes Non-Intimate.

      1. Witch says:

        I actually don’t think having a family member as a primary source is extremely rare. I think it is less common but not as rare as it seems.
        I would theorise that this is especially the case for victims narcs, narcs with disabilities, elderly narcs, widowed narcs, single parent narcs. Just any narc that is less likely to be able to successfully date/seduce someone romantically would leach onto a family member or even a friend.

        The narc I helped who was homeless, as she was single and wasn’t particularly successful with men was trying to leach onto me and my gf as a primary source. I told her I no longer wanted to be her friend and blocked her after she collected all her belongings and she messaged my gf recently, probably because she tried to contact me first and couldn’t get through. I know it was an attempted hoover and also provocation because I blocked her.

        1. WhoCares says:


          “I actually don’t think having a family member as a primary source is extremely rare.”

          I think your statement and the theory behind it is bang on.

          1. Witch says:

            Thanks whocares
            I meant Leech, but you know I can’t spell.
            There are a lot of narcs out there who aren’t particularly successful with dating and so they are usually hidden within their family because empaths and normals are less likely to report or abandon their family, even more so than a partner

          2. WhoCares says:

            So true Witch – I nearly became a non-intimate primary source to my mother. It would have gone very badly. But I escaped her too.

          3. Witch says:

            And the thing is these narcs know their limits subconsciously, my mother hasn’t been with a man in years but she has 5 kids to go through as primary sources so for a long time she didn’t need to have a partner.
            My sister’s narc ex told her that very few women will want him because of his wasteman bum history. My ex narc told me not many relationships would work for him because he’s narcissistic.
            They know deep down they don’t have that many character traits they can use to continue to successfully seduce people. Sometimes family provides easier and more sustainable primary sources

          4. Cold Hard Truth says:

            Most narcs are co dependent in some form or another. Partner. Family member, website…
            People who strive for independence mostly aren’t narcs are beholden to anything or anyone.

      2. Contagious says:

        But I am 100% certain she is a narc. How is that possible? Maybe why he suffers …low fuel? Also maybe the N cycles. She hates me. Day one. Maybe she embraces him with attention “ oh poor baby” then devalues him. She called me out of a separation… saying I had to help him. I said what’s wrong? She said he could not “ cope with her.” He was in a fog. He never has left really in 7 years. We are married still. He always keeps tabs and contact. That’s why the test is he a N victim or a N or both?

        1. Renarde says:


          It’s a tricky one to get your head around but it CAN work. I’ve observed the adult dynamic in my family for over 20 years.

          All three, PN, Mum and Bro are unaware. They all spiral around each other to gain fuel. But its never enough.

          The rows between PN and bro were very serious, think jail overnight at times.

          So if there is a greater tie to bind such as housing or money, that can be enough to keep a narc dynamic in place.

  4. Contagious says:

    My believes to be imagined a relationship online with an old friend who feels betrayed. This friend asked me to give a cd to my close friend up high in music industry. He hacked me. Saw these three non noteworthy emails and went unhinged. Showed up at the guys place, “ cone out for tea darling.” Emailed all three of us with judgments on my infidelity. To this day he believes this P guy and I are plotting our live affair. It’s pure delusion. We are separated but he believes it. He has left video lectures on it. Scary as he believes his own lies.

    1. Contagious says:

      Sorry for the typos.

      1. Violetta says:

        Don’t worry about typos. We all make them (including me, and I’ve worked as both a copy editor and an English teacher). When trolls show up, they might get a grammar review, but only because their arrogance and hostility are usually accompanied by general incoherence.

        Any possibility he made accusations of cheating because he was cheating?

        1. Contagious says:

          No. He lives in isolation. Sadly his mum kept him out of school for years at home. She never leaves the house. No one drove until I arrived. He drives in UK and US now. He is quite proud of that. No childhood friends save the dog. And I have sources years later who have known him for decades. No relations. He says there will only be me. Yet he is with his mum for 9 months now. She has attempted suicide or faked it three times now when he tries to leave. It’s awful. He feels responsible for her so he tells me. Btw the hospital actions, neighbors, pay lice are hard evidence of her attempts. She is however always fine the next day and rejects any intervention.

          1. Violetta says:

            Norman Bates’ mother. Ewww.

        2. Contagious says:

          And Violetta thank you for your support! It is very confusing and unfolds in long drawn out stages. If a N, my husband has long golden periods. His mum does not.

          1. Violetta says:

            I left NYC where a Narc had broken my heart and went to grad school, only to walk into a department full of Narcs. And I didn’t know what any of them were until fairly recently.

  5. Kim e says:

    HG. Sorry. I asked regarding only IPPS before I saw the categories.
    Whenever the category includes IPSS, does that always include DLS?
    Thank you

    1. HG Tudor says:


      1. Kim e says:

        Thank you

      2. Lorelei says:

        HG—this is an inappropriate question you are unlikely to answer. But.. Have you ever had a dirty little secret you would be embarrassed to take out in public? Is it their demeanor,
        their appearance? What makes someone a DLS?

        1. HG Tudor says:

          The DLS may be someone the narcissist would be embarrassed to show in public, but more usually it is someone who is tucked away because their presence on an open platform would cause problems for the narcissists facade. For instance, the narcissist is married and portrays himself as Mr Moral. If he paraded around a mistress, that would damage his marriage and his image as Mr Moral and thus damage the facade, thus the mistress is kept hidden. It is not because she is ugly, stupid, smelly, socially awkward but because she damages the facade. My DLSs are not those who I would be “embarrassed” to show in public.

          1. Kim e says:

            HG. so if a DSL is a mistress that the n doesn’t want to ruin his facade what is the difference between an IPSS… booty call, FWB…. and a DLS

          2. HG Tudor says:

            The FWB or booty call may have more involvement with the life of the narcissist and thus be a Shelf IPSS. If they are kept hidden away, they will be a DLS. It is the nature of the interaction which determines their status, not the label of FWB, mistress or booty call that designates their status as Shelf IPSS or DLS.

          3. Kim e says:

            Hg. But don’t all ipss’s and DLS have the threat of ruining the facade?

          4. HG Tudor says:

            They do, but there are varying levels of threat.

          5. Kim e says:

            HG. “My DLS’s….. as you stated. May I ask if you currently have 1 or more DLS’s?

            Also what is a fair estimate of the percentage of any IPSS escaping vs being disengaged from?

            Your humble empath

          6. HG Tudor says:

            The reference to DLSs, Kim was to historic ones. Of course they remain alive but they are shelved by me. I am not interacting with any.

            With regard to IPSSs, the breakdown is thus
            5% are disengaged from
            15% escape
            80% the dynamic continues

          7. Kim e says:

            The reference to DLSs, Kim was to historic ones. Of course they remain alive but they are shelved by me. I am not interacting with any.

            I am assuming that they are all shelved because of the GP with SM. But do you know if any of the current have escaped while being shelved?

          8. HG Tudor says:

            No, they have not.

          9. Cold Hard Truth says:

            And there it is.


  6. Kim e says:

    HG. Does this only apply to IPPS?

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