Caught in a Lie

 

CAUGHT-IN-A-LIE

 

I have explained previously that lying is like breathing for our kind. Lesser and Mid Range Narcissists tell lies and believe them, they are their truth. They do not recognise that they are lying and therefore there is no question of guilt, remorse or conscience because they do not see that they are doing something which is seen as wrong by you. Such is the joy of ignorance.

Greater Narcissists tell lies where some are believed by the Greater, the True Believer Status of those narcissists which operate in the rarefied atmosphere of control, power and privilege and are responsible for many of the glories and ills of the world you inhabit. However, much of the lies of the Greater are conscious lies and are told because of our innate Machiavellian nature wherein the end justifies the means and therefore there is nothing to be lost by knowingly lying and everything to gain. Unhindered by guilt, conscience or remorse, we will knowingly tell lies to serve our needs which will include the sheer entertainment of knowing we are lying and the impact it has on our victims.

What about when the narcissist is caught in a lie? Many of you will have witnessed this. The Greater is not caught in a lie because the sheer force of our lies, the level of our intellect and the extent of our scheming means that the lie is either undetectable or if it is, we are not caught in it. There is always an exit, whether that is through charm, massive plausible deniability or the operation of some manipulation, the Greater may occasionally have a lie exposed, but is never caught in it.

But what about the the Lesser or Mid Range Narcissist? You will have caught them in a lie on many occasions. What happens and surely their reaction means that they know they are caught lying?

No, it does not.

If you boldly accuse a narcissist of lying or you are less candid so you present a contradictory state of affairs between what the narcissist has said and some other evidence, what will you be met with?

This amounts to a challenge to the narcissist. You will be presenting Challenge Fuel and thus there is no wounding. However, your challenge to the narcissist by suggesting, forcefully or with subtlety that he or she has lied, is stating that the narcissist is wrong and thus you are offending the narcissists sense of superiority and seeking to pin accountability on the narcissist. You are not allowed to do this.

These challenges to superiority through our sense of entitlement to do what we want and need and to the lack of accountability threaten our control. Thus you will meet the First Line of the Twin Narcissistic Lines of Defence, which is denial.

You will be told that you are wrong, that this never happened, that you are incorrect, that you are making scandalous accusations, that your memory is haphazard or that you are making things up. All of these things and others amount to denial.

Denial will be maintained again and again and again until either you give up (thus giving the narcissist control and your challenge has ended) or you present something (usually independent corroborative evidence (such as a text, a picture, a video recording or somebody else’s testimony). If you do the latter you break through the First Line and thus you expose the lie.

This means the narcissist MUST in order to maintain control, fall back to the Second Line of the Narcissistic Twin Lines of Defence, which is in effect, any other manipulation and we have plenty of those. To understand more about the Twin Lines of Narcissistic Defence, read The Narcissist’s Twin Lines of Defence.

However, if you break through the First Line and present evidence showing a disconnect between what the narcissist says has happened and something else, has the narcissist not seen that he has lied? Does he not gain knowledge that he has lied? Is she not now fixed with realisation that she has lied?

No.

The reaction you see is not of realisation that a lie has been exposed but instead the reaction to the loss of control, which you, understandably (because of your worldview) but mistakenly, see as realisation of been caught lying.

It is not.

It is a realisation that something is not right. The unconscious loss of control manifests in a conscious response through the application of the Second Line.

Thus, this is why the Lesser or Mid Range Narcissist does not know that he or she is lying and does not see the lie has been exposed, they merely sense a threat to their control and you become the problem which results in the application of a further manipulation through the application of the Second Line.

Dependent on the school of narcissist, the response may be plausible or be completely ridiculous, but it will be used because the narcissist is blind to the lie. All that matters is asserting control and quashing your challenge in some way.

You may receive some ridiculous comment which lacks credibility but it will be accompanied by a manipulation such as physical violence, smashing the phone on which your evidence is presented, a circular conversation, a bout of projection, a sudden massive word salad or any other form of manipulation from the many at our disposal, but it will always come.

It is akin to those films where someone is home alone and the madman or monster bursts into the house. The victim falls backwards, frantically scrambling away and reaching for anything, absolutely anything to use against the advancing threat to counter it. Sometimes the victim will reach for a gun and shoots countering the aggressor, thus that narcissist came up with a plausible response to being caught in a lie, sometimes the victim throws a knife, a candlestick or a rubber chicken. All have varying levels of effectiveness – just like the plausibility of the lie. Often you will still see through it, but it is the accompanying manipulation which enables the narcissist to scramble free of being caught in the lie.

You know the lie has been told, but that is not the issue. It is control and that is what the narcissist seeks. Even if the lie remains live and on the record, if control has been attained by punching you, flouncing off, shouting at you or embarking on a thirty minute word salad monologue then that is all that matters.

But now, let us hear from you, when you have caught the narcissist in a lie, share with u, those absolute corkers and belters that would have Pinocchio embarrassed. Explain the circumstances and what was said and then look at what else happened alongside it to realise how it is not so much the lie that matters but the need for control.

 

12 thoughts on “Caught in a Lie

  1. marmeladethecat says:

    Having worked as a lawyer and seen a lot of x examination done, I put my ex Narc through a cross examination of his alleged cheating (being seen at the local Bottle Shop with another woman and clearly being ”an item” when he was with me and I was away at a friend’s funeral). Prior to my commencing the x he said, “You have blocked my parents on FB!” and I said, “Yes, and I’m here to explain myself”. I also gave him a disclaimer. I said I was happy to be friends with him after 11 years together but my deal breaker for friendship is dishonesty. Having read HG’s work and having duly taken note, I then carried out my x examination without any emotional affect whatsoever except when he became rude to me at which point I calmly but firmly said, “I am not being rude to you and you are not to be rude to me”. Of course he proceeded to lie and I was able to advance evidence contrary to what he said in response. For example: Him: “I haven’t been to that bottle shop for over a year!” Me: “Wrong. The owner said you were in there last Sunday”. Prior to this I had blocked him on every form of social media except texting on WhatsApp and he was aware of this (he used to do this to me for sport, I never did it till I started to work toward No Contact). So, after I left his place (making sure I hadn’t actually accused him of lying because he would have flown into a rage which I would then have been subjected to) I went home and blocked his sole means of contacting me.100% No Contact. He will work that one out.

  2. jj says:

    Hi,

    It seems the malignant narcissist in my life is a sibling. When caught in a lie, I brought up an email exchange we had that disproved the current lie being told. Luckily the exchange was via email so I have it all recored. The response was sarcasm, mocking, mimicking, blame, and name calling.

    I’m curious, do the rules of narcissism for IPPS apply to siblings?

    Thanks!

    1. HG Tudor says:

      There is a different dynamic between the narcissist and the NISS (sibling) compared to that of the dynamic between narcissist and IPPS. Although the dynamic plays out differently, there will be certain shared aspects.

      1. hopeless says:

        Thank you, HG. Your site is extremely helpful. It is a bit difficult to understand the differing dynamics between and intimate partner and a sibling so I appreciate your comments.

        1. HG Tudor says:

          You are welcome. If you want detailed assistance, make us of the consultations, that is what they are there for, otherwise, keep reading and it will all click into place.

          1. hopeless says:

            Thank you again. I’m trying to gain some understanding into the dynamics between narcissists and their victims before any consultations. Otherwise I fear your advise would be wasted since I don’t think I’d be able to fully understand your comments.

            Many thanks.

          2. HG Tudor says:

            That is fair enough.

    2. JJ
      I’m really sorry your sibling is this way. If you’re unable to go NC with your sibling sometimes it can be better to just know you have the evidence rather than show it to them and kick up a storm. The power of having that information and not using it but simply knowing you can should you ever need to is well worth it.

      As for how siblings treat you. I think it’s incredibly variable depending on the type of N. I have an N sister, she is UMR. She has always treated me in a kindly and friendly manner, she rarely gets angry etc however, there was always something about her which just wasn’t quite right. She repeatedly let me down, couldn’t be trusted, there was no loyalty. And I just kind of didn’t feel very nice when I was with her but couldn’t quite put my finger on it. She seemed empty and yet so full of life, no real love there, career driven (which is not a bad thing of course) but it was just the emptiness which accompanied it which I could just never understand. All that said, if I asked her for something (as long as it was within the realms of what she wanted to do and when she wanted to), she would do it. ALways buys me lots of gifts, makes a huge fuss of me etc yet she would screw me over soon as look as me. Not in a malign way, more just she has to win. Wow has she had a shock in recent years!

      Anyway. A couple of midrange crybaby Ns I know who each have two siblings, one is more educated than the other, but that’s the main difference. One of them has one clear favourite and overtly lavishes one with praise etc etc (yet he still secretly fucks him over but noone at all would guess this not even the sibling themselves), the other sibling he is awful too and lets the whole world know it, paints this other sibling as someone truly evil. I don’t know the other sibling to know whether he is another N or simply a smeared empath.

      The other N who has two siblings is far more subtle, they both come to him for everything and he subtly plays them off against each other but in such a way nobody would ever know. He speaks about them both in a positive manner.

      1. hopeless says:

        Thank you for the added information. “JJ is also hopeless” 🙂

  3. Anm says:

    This clip from Dave Chapels standup, perfectly describes catching a Narcissist (Jesse) in a lie.

  4. Lynn Schmidt says:

    Long term, live-in relationship with the narc. In devaluation, once again. While talking to his adult daughter, I mention he is late coming home from work. Like clockwork, this man is never late. She says, I hate to tell you this, but . . she suspects it may have to do with the former IPPS. She’s read on FB the former’s daughter just had a baby. Former stated she is going to the neighboring town where the daughter lives & will be staying 5 days to get acquainted with her new grandchild. My step daughter adds, the former IPPS has a new puppy. It would need to be taken care of in her absence. I have yet to connect the breadcrumbs & respond Ya, so? Stepdaughter says “He probably is not home because he is feeding & taking the dog out”. I’m thinking preposterous! She has family nearby, lots of friends to ask for help. She has no reason to reach out to him. When he arrives home, I pleasantly ask why he’s late. Answer: Plausible deniability. Next day he is late again. I ask sweetly “oh you’re late—what held you up?” Another plausible denial. Yet, I need to know if what his daughter suspects is true. So I ask if he has been at her house caring for her dog. Denial—hasn’t seen nor spoken to her in six months or more. That evening, his phone dings announcing an incoming text. I glance at it & see the message is from the former IPPS. I take the phone to him, confront him with his pending message & say angrily “You’ve got a message from your girlfriend”. He opens the message & shows me her text that says “ok”. I ask what she is responding ok to. Response is flimsy & I didn’t buy it. I knew he was lying. Strongly felt he’d wiped his phone of their messages. I said to him “I see who you are. Everybody warned me about you but I didn’t want to believe them. I wanted to believe you were who I wanted you to be, but you’re not. You are f’ing scum! You are deceitful. You are a liar. You are untrustworthy. Contacting her behind my back & attempting to humiliate me is it! Emphatically said “Get the f away from me”. I am moving out tomorrow. Told him to leave the house NOW. Said he’d leave, as to give me time to cool off. He’d get a coffee & return in 2 hours. I yelled at him “NO, DO NOT come back in 2 hours. GET OUT, go spend the night at your girlfriend’s. I don’t want to see you or speak to you ever again. Do not come back until after I have removed my belongings—tomorrow evening.” Without a word, he packed a couple items, and with a hanging head, left the home he owns. I’ve received letters. Don’t acknowledge or respond to a known liar. I’m an honest, nice gal. I don’t deserve lies. Successful NC for 89 days, thanks to you HG.💋

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Well done so far LS, however the receipt of the letters is a breach of no contact. What do you with the letters?

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