For the Sake of Argument



Would you like to know what is going through my mind when we argue? Thought you would.

I do enjoy an argument. I love to start a squabble, a contretemps and escalate it to a quarrel through to an altercation, a fight ! By now I am sure you have realised that the reason I do this is twofold. First, I am provoking an emotional reaction from you which gives me fuel. Secondly, it enables me to put you in your place and control you by being abusive towards you. I keep it within the realms of stinging and barbed verbal abuse but there are those of my brethren who do like to let their fists do the talking. That is not my style but we cannot shy away from the truth of what is being done in the name of “a discussion”.

I know from experience and also from reading numerous comments and observations that you regard arguing with me akin to banging your head against a brick wall. You cannot understand the stance we adopt in an argument. Surely we must recognise that what we are saying makes no sense? Do we not realise that our position lacks logic? I will endeavour to enlighten you. I recognise two types of argument. The first is created by me. The second is created by you. What they both have in common is you are at fault.

In the first type I generate an argument out of nothing. You find this disorienting and confusing. In fact,I will often do this after we have just done something delightful together (throwing you from a height is all the more delicious – see Get Ready To Drop). I will invent some offence (why did you just look at that man across from us, when you did not) or I will seize on something utterly trivial (thanks for taking that last drop (and it was a drop) of the sauvignon blanc). I will level the accusation at you. You will at first be stunned because everything was going swimmingly. You will then be perplexed as my accusation is either untrue or so minor to be negligible. Why is he getting so het up over nothing? Indignance will then rise inside you as your inner self questions whether you are just going to sit and take this unjust accusation. I am shouting at you now and you either run away or fight back. It might go something like this.

“Oh thanks for taking the last of the wine, I wanted that. I have hardly had any.”

“Sorry? There was only a drop left.”

“But you didn’t ask me if I wanted it did you?”

“I didn’t think to, there was just a dribble.”

“You didn’t think? That’s the trouble with you. You never think.”

“Oh come on, besides you’ve had plenty of wine anyway.”

“Are you saying I have a drink problem?”

“Woah, where did that come from?”

“You. You are always doing this. You do something selfish and then turn it into an attack about me. Just because you cannot stand for someone to point out when you have done something wrong.”

“Good God, what are you talking about?”

“That’s it, try to dismiss me when I am making a valid point.”

“I only poured a drop of wine into my glass. It is not big deal. Here, if it troubles you so much, have what is left in my glass.”

“No, it’s too late. The damage is done. You are trying to make light of when I am pointing something out to you.”

“This is ridiculous.”

“Oh I am ridiculous am I, well that’s rich coming from someone who drinks a bottle, at least one, a day.”

“Where do you get that from? No I don’t.”

“Yes you do. I am concerned about your drinking, have you ever considered getting some help?”

And on it goes.

When I start an argument like this I am not interested in proving what I am saying is correct. I am already right in my mind. You should note that ‘right’ and ‘correct’ are not necessarily the same thing. The whole purpose of this type of argument is for me to upset you and turn an otherwise pleasant experience into a horrible one. This is about exerting control so that you become wary about upsetting me. Next time you will always ensure you offer to pour me a glass of wine before tending to yourself for fear of causing an argument. Of course,, the next time I will be arguing about how you took the last profiterole instead even though I had eaten five more than you already.

The second type of argument is where you level a complaint or accusation at me. Invariably what you say is correct and you have valid grounds for raising it. You will also do so in a calm and level-headed fashion because that is your style. When you do this I do not hear what you are actually saying to me. The validity of your argument is meaningless to me. The piece of paper that documents your point may as well be written in Sanskrit for all the notice I will take of it. All I hear is you criticising me and I hate that. I absolutely hate it.

How dare someone like you, who is inferior to someone like me, have the audacity to suggest I have done something wrong. I do not hear your words, I do not see the video recording you are playing back, all I hear is an unjust and scathing attack on me. Your words are drowned out by the raging fire that surges through me. The noise of the flames renders me deaf to your cool logic. I will deflect, deny and launch my own attacks (usually predicated on inventions) in order to beat you back. I am not interested in the correctness of what is being argued about.

I am only interested in stopping the burning sensation I feel from your criticism and to do that I have to extinguish you. This is when I lose control and lash out. I will hurl savage insults at you and I will smash items of property (in my mind I am smashing you, just another object in front of me when I do this) and some of my kind will engage in physical violence. You will try to make me see that I am wrong (any healthy person would do this) and you are utterly flabbergasted as to why I cannot see what you are saying to me. Now you know. I cannot see because of the fiery rage that has erupted.

How do you deal with me in these two types of argument? Well, I am saving that information for another time. In the meanwhile, see if you can piece together that ornament I have just hurled against the wall.

22 thoughts on “For the Sake of Argument

  1. hopeless says:

    Thank you. That actually makes sense and reflects what I’ve experienced.

  2. blackcoffee30 says:

    Me: Negligible is not nothing.
    Malcolm: There is NO other life in the universe. The odds are negligible!

    Me: Negligible is not nothing.
    Malcolm: There is NO other life in the universe. The odds are negligible!!

    Me: Negligible is not nothing.
    Malcolm: There is NO other life in the universe. The odds are negligible!!!

    Me: Negligible is not nothing.
    Malcolm: *silent angry stare*

    I fondly recall that argument. Hahaha I “won” in the moment. He gave up. Surely, I was punished some way, unbeknownst to me. LOL

  3. Leela says:

    “My” narc is passive-aggressive. He prefers the Silent Treatment. He never starts an argument actively he just goes silent when he´s p… off. Cold fury!

  4. NarcAngel says:

    Sex after fighting/make up sex remain a mystery to me.

      1. NarcAngel says:

        Like I said: mystery.

        1. Bubbles 🍾 says:

          Dear NarcAngel,
          We very rarely fight, so that ain’t ever gonna happen
          “Make up” sex always seems to happen, as soon as it’s been applied 💄💅🏻💋
          “Mystery” sex, now you’re talking, it’s always a “mystery” how we ever get round to it 😂
          Luv Bubbles xx 😘

        2. Violetta says:

          Dead-on balls accurate, NA. It’s an industry term.

    1. Empath007 says:

      Perhaps this is thinking about it too much… but I think it can give that similar “safe” feeling like a child would get from a parent while calming down from a tantrum if they get a hug or something. For some of us it’s like the “love” making puts a band aid on the fight. Not to mention while fighting your senses are usually hightened… kind of in a fight or flight mode, higher aggression = more animalistic type of sex. No Vanilla sex after a fight.

  5. Empath007 says:

    “You regard arguing with me akin to banging your head against a brick wall “

    Not me. I love a good argument. For whatever fucked up reason I’ve equated it with caring. After all, why would someone argue and get upset… unless they cared ? Since my former partner would constantly be silent and never argue…. the narc would keep it cycling. And it was so much better then the silence. And the sex after a good fight is bliss.

    The only issue with the narc is that it’s constant. There’s no break from it. And soon I found myself completely worn down, becoming a shell of my former self trying to get him to see my persepective. So I much prefer my own company. With no one hoovering over me constantly trying to get a reaction. I’ll have make up sex again one day… hopefully with another empath so that’s its insanely passionate.

    Prince Harry… I’ll wait 😆😉

  6. lickemtomorrow says:

    Mine was good at creating situations to begin an argument. Little did I know it was all for the sake of fuel.

    I took the bait every time.

    And he definitely didn’t like being criticized. Even when what was said wasn’t intended as a criticism.

    A no win situation no matter what way you go at it. And we went at it every which way.

    No wonder it’s exhausting.

  7. hopeless says:


    I’ve been reading your book “fury” and this post reminds me of a question I’ve wanted to ask. You mentioned that delivering a criticism unemotionally causes injury. That type of unemotional criticism typically results in ignited fury to heal the wound.

    If some keeps focused on the issue and keeps unemotionally responding during ignited fury, does the wound still heal? Does just verbally abusing someone heal the injury even if the other person isn’t supplying any emotional response for fuel?

    I’m thinking the abuse process provides some kind of fuel to heal the wound, even if the victim isn’t being emotional. It’s that being present makes you a player so the narcissist just writes in your emotional responses.


    PS. Sorry for the typos.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      No, as explained in Fury, if there is repeated wounding, the narcissist is forced into withdrawal.

  8. Fellowgirl says:

    The second type of argument gives empath a false conviction “if he reacts with rage to my complaints it means he is correct/still engaged/still affected by me”. Especially when narcissist mixes it with silent treatments – empath thinks it is better to have this argument, to be abused than to get the silent treatment. Silent treatment is much worse, it means he doesnt care. If he reacts with rage- he is still here with me. Its f****d up, we begin to wait for those arguments to get that false sense that he cares and we are wrong accusing him of all the awful things we feel he does but don’t want to believe. Abuse as a prove of love.

    1. HG Tudor says:

      Valid observation, FG and demonstrates the Flawed Logic which comes from Emotional Thinking.

      1. Empath007 says:

        Narcs are the same though… they equate our anger/frustration as them being powerful. When really… it’s not because they’re powerful (at least not from the empaths perspective) it’s becAuse we feel genuinely angry/hurt and confused and want answers. We don’t realize we are being provoked. We project our own feelings onto the narc that We are arguing So we can fix it… we think them arguing back means they also care to fix it (even if they appear hurt by our “accusations”) but we aren’t thinking to ourselves “boy is he/she sure is powerful for making me feel upset” .

        Both crave the interaction. For different reasons but both those reasons are flawed (in my opinion)

        1. lickemtomorrow says:

          This is actually good – when you say both crave the arguments. And we do for different reasons. He wants fuel, I want an answer or explanation. Normally only one of us gets what we want … and it’s not the empath.

          Though, the make up sex could quell some of that angst 😉

          1. Empath007 says:

            Yes. It is futile As we never achieve what we want for sure. I think the narcissist can occasionally have flawed logic as well though. There are some who are not the most affective players of the game. And are not “powerful” by any definition. For example there is one in my company who is well know…. his lies are outrageously hilarious (to us )and If he could hear how much people laugh behind his back he would not feel powerful haha.

            Yes. The make up sex was a great band aid. Sometimes I wish I wouldn’t have cared about trying to make a relationship happen so much and just used him for sex… but I suppose that’s not my style haha.

    2. Empath007 says:

      100 percent ! That’s exactly it. We equate arguing to caring.

      1. hopeless says:

        This actually troubles me…… I don’t equate arguing with caring. I equate it with abuse. Perhaps being exposed to an abusive parent and older sibling has colored my perspective.

        I’ve often wondered if perhaps I’m the problem.

        I’ve been reading many sites to hopefully find answers.

        1. lickemtomorrow says:

          I find people tend to interpret the word arguing differently. I actually find it quite invigorating sometimes to pit myself against another in a ‘war of words’. Of course, that is because I think I am right and want to make my point. Which is a pointless perspective to have when it comes to the narcissist as they are always right and will never accede to your point. But, I sharpen my mental sword each and every time. That, of course, doesn’t make allowances for the hurt or frustration that often generated the argument in the first place. It’s one way of expressing it though. I need to have my say. And I will. Did I ever win one?

          I once told mine “I’m so phucking angry at you right now” after launching a tirade and he told me he was ‘was really worried about me’ when I was done. I asked him if he was being facetious. He started the whole thing with a triangulation in the first place!

          As an adult, I find it is easier to view things in this manner.

          As a child, I was terrified when my parent’s argued. Violence was not off the cards in my home. So, I certainly don’t take the issue lightly depending on the circumstances.

          In my relationship arguing generally led to (what I thought was) deeper understanding. We crossed swords, made our peace, and seemingly drew even closer. Make up sex was the cherry on the cake 🙂

          1. Empath007 says:

            That’s the worst when they play the “you shouldn’t be angry”
            Gaslighting card. Actually. Yes. I should. And I am. Wanna fight about it ? 😜

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