How To Reduce Giving Fuel to the Narcissist
Fuel is the lifeblood of our kind. Some refer to it as narcissistic supply (far too long and does not convey what is does for us) or the ghastly “supply” (admittedly shorter but inaccurate). Fuel is any emotional response to something we have said, done or caused. In order to understand in detail what it is, how it originates and your role in this you should read Fuel : What Makes the Narcissist Function
In fact, that book is a must read in order to understand fuel and to enable you to achieve your freedom from the narcissist. Fuel is behind everything that we do.
If we cannot obtain fuel from an appliance then that will force us to seek fuel elsewhere. Sometimes it causes an immediate withdrawal and sometimes it will take time for this retreat to occur, but it will happen.
If the provision of fuel is very low, infrequent and/or acquiring it proves particularly difficult, this will also result in the narcissist ultimately selecting alternative appliances for the provision of his or her fuel needs.
Accordingly, cutting off the provision of fuel is a key component of achieving your freedom from us. The most obvious route to doing this is by implementing a robust no contact regime. If we cannot interact with you in any way whatsoever, we cannot obtain any fuel from you and this lack of fuel acts to assist in keeping the Hoover Bar high and thus the risk of future hoovers low. Striving for a total no contact has to always be your aim.
However, what of those situations where total no contact has not been achieved or maintained? What about those situations where there is interaction between you and the narcissist, how do you manage those situations so you provide the least fuel? First of all you should understand that what follows in this article should not be regarded as an alternative to no contact. You cannot opt for this approach. Do not think that you can choose between total no contact and an alternative which is less than no contact – if you do, failure awaits. The purpose of this article is to cover two situations where total no contact has not arisen :-
- The Ambush. You may have moved house, blocked numbers, changed numbers, moved jobs, jettisoned certain risky social groups and put in place various measures which has resulted in a solid no contact. Even then, you may just happen to bump into the narcissist walking down the street, at an event or possibly somewhere you did not expect to. Other than live as a hermit in a cave in the mountains, you cannot legislate for this as part of your no contact regime and you have been unfortunate to be ambushed in this manner. The narcissist may have planned to do this or it may just be coincidence, but either way, you have a face to face meeting with the narcissist; and/or
- Legitimate Exceptions to Total No Contact. Let me make this clear, these are very few and far between indeed. This is not keeping the narcissist’s number in your ‘phone and not blocking that number in case there is an emergency – that is not a legitimate exception. This is not attending the same gym, at the same time and days that you know the narcissist will be there – you can make changes to bolster your no contact regime in that regard. Legitimate Exceptions would include remaining in a job where the narcissist also works pending your departure to a new job or a transfer to another site. It could be argued that you could just leave the job immediately to achieve no contact and yes, that is an option and one which should be considered where you are serious about achieving a robust no contact, but if there is no immediate job to go to, you do not have savings and you have a notice period to abide by, then you will have to remain in a situation where there is a risk of contact. Legitimate Exceptions would also cover co-parenting with a narcissist where there is a court order compelling that co-parenting takes place. Legitimate Exceptions covers attending court where the narcissist will also be there. Remember, even with the Legitimate Exceptions this does not give you a pass to engage freely with the narcissist, indeed there are still many things you can do which means you can still maintain total no contact or a high level of no contact, but those are matters for separate discussion. This article addresses those very few situations where contact arises with the narcissist so that you give no or very little fuel.
I shall reinforce that you CANNOT use this article in order to repeatedly engage with us and think you can do so in a manner which will not have an adverse effect on you. If you keep engaging with the narcissist, your emotional thinking will surge and increase and you WILL end up losing insight and resistance. You need to recognise and understand this and see The Golden Rules of Freedom – No. 4
It is important that you understand that the most dangerous interaction with us, is any direct physical interaction with us. Why is this?
- The largest amount of fuel you provide to us comes from direct physical interaction. This is because the words you use, the tone of those words, your body language, your facial expression and the look in your eyes all combine to provide us with very large quantities of fuel. Therefore, wherever possible we want to achieve an interaction with you in person.
- You are far easier to manipulate in person because your own emotional thinking surges owing to our close proximity which then weakens and removes your resistance to us far faster. It is easier to ignore an e-mail from us but far harder when we look at you, give you that winning smile that makes you melt as our familiar scent washes over you. You may think you can resist it (and some might for a time) but I have seen many fall when there is physical interaction with us.
- Your politeness and decency mean you may well struggle to ignore us when there is direct physical interaction. Your emotional thinking will cause you to say hello and at least be polite and then the salami-slicing begins as we draw you in once again.
- No matter how disciplined you think you can be in our presence, you may be able to keep your tone level but your immediate emotional responses (facial expressions, the look in your eyes, body language etc.) provide fuel and are virtually impossible for you to stop. You will also struggle to keep your tone level when you speak to us for much more than a couple of minutes. Accordingly, you are always going to give us some fuel when we see you in person. This underlines the need to avoid direct physical contact with us as a priority.
So, how do you reduce the fuel that you give to the narcissist?
- Apply no contact and make it total. Maintain it at a robust level.
- If there has to be direct physical contact with the narcissist then look to reduce the number of occasions when this can happen to the absolute minimum. Do you need to attend that Parent Teacher evening at the same time or can you organise a separate appointment? Can you stand on the opposite touchline to watch your child play sport? Do you really have to attend that meeting where the narcissist will be – can you avoid it, send someone else, provide input in writing or listen in and contribute via a telephone conference call? Can you be seated on a different table to the narcissist at the event? Can you alter your attendance at the staff canteen so you do not go when you know the narcissist is there? Yes, you may resent having to make these adjustments but they are worth doing so in order to minimise the risk of providing fuel and keeping the narcissist’s interest in you at a heightened level. Remember, we want direct physical contact for the reasons set out above.
- If direct physical contact occurs by ambush, apply GOSO and get out and stay out. Walk away from us and say nothing. Do not look upset, frightened or worried. Many people think that if you walk away from us then we think we have ‘won’. Yes, we will tell people that (‘I saw Anne yesterday but she just scurried away from me like a frightened mouse’) but that is just for the façade. If you ignore us and do so without reaction (save walking away) then this wounds us massively and we hate it. Accordingly, should you bump into us somewhere, then your priority is to get away from us. Just walk off, make an excuse about being somewhere if you really need to say something, pretend to need the bathroom, pretend to take a call – whatever it takes so you can get out.
- If you really, really cannot get away immediately then you should do so at the earliest point. In the meanwhile talk to other people and not us (this will also wound) where this is possible. If you have to talk to us, keep your tone neutral, avoid eye contact, talk about neutral topics or topics which do not give much away about you (remember we will be looking for fuel but also information about you which we can use). Accordingly, talk about travel, the journey to wherever it is you are, the pop star whose concert it is, something you have done recently which you do not mind revealing to the narcissist and will not be used against you. Do not ask the narcissist how he or she is. If they want to talk, let them and look unfazed. The more they talk, the more you can concentrate on zoning out and not providing reactions, whilst planning your departure from the vicinity of the narcissist.
- Avoid expansive and sweeping gestures, pointing, gesticulating, fist-waving, holding your hands-up etc – this all provides fuel. Either hold your hands together behind your back, or place them in your pockets, hold your bag or place them flat on the table and keep your hands in that position. Have something to hold or touch and tell yourself you need to keep hold of that position or item until you are away from the narcissist.
- Resist all attempts to attack us in some way. Whilst you may be dying to tell us what a bastard we have been or to put us straight on one or twenty things, you will only end up losing your discipline and giving us fuel.
- If the narcissist has telephoned you and caught you out, put the phone down straight away. Do not tell us to go away, do not ask questions, end the call straight away.
- Where there has to be some form of communication with the narcissist, either convey it through a third party – thus this removes the fuel almost entirely (because they are the words of the third party and not you (unless the third party makes reference to you – which they should avoid)) or do so in writing. Writing should be the only method of communication where there absolutely has to be such communication – for example with regard to parenting arrangements. By placing the communication in writing you achieve the following
- You give yourself time to ‘weed out’ emotive language and thus fuel – speaking does not give you this edit function, nor does being in our presence;
- You have a written evidential record which may prove to be useful at a future point
- You will be briefer
- If you do provide fuel you will only provide a small amount as the written word provides us with the lowest amount of fuel that can be provided compared to other methods of communication.
Thus, aim for no interaction with us. If there is an ambush interaction, get away as quickly as you can and if you cannot, govern your responses as described above until you can make your getaway. For other interactions, reduce physical ones to the lowest possible level and use written communications instead. By doing this, you will reduce your fuel output, raise the Hoover Bar and starve us of what we want from you.
92 thoughts on “How To Reduce Giving Fuel to the Narcissist”
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… for me the problem is bigger. Besides the good no contact regime, and the showing poker face when ambushed, I felt I needed to do something about my general narc magnetism. To attract fewer new narcissists.
I had to work on my everyday body language, make it less nervous looking, make it calmer and slower, fewer sudden moves. In order to survive.
It’s hard work in the beginning, but I have no choice.
HG, I know that your kind have no empathy, but, cop on and common sense are also missing. It amazes me that your kind can get wounded by the least little thing even if the other person doesn’t mean what they say or do to be in a mean or hurtful manner. Yet, your kind take glee in trying to humiliate, publicly embarrass, deliberately cause hurt and fear to an innocent person for no other reason than because you didn’t get fuel and you felt wounded. HG, with the greatest of respect, your kind make no sense at all and for all the hard working, decent, honest folk out there, if your kind were not around, the world would be a much happier place.
Your comment demonstrates you do not yet understand narcissism as it contains several misunderstandings. Keep reading.
I do understand narcissism HG. Just sometimes when dealing with your kind it would be great if there was some bit of decency there and not just causing hassle and chaos just to get fuel. I have dealt with Narcs for a long time. Only in the last couple of years found out what they are all about.
Your comment contained misunderstanding.
I think HG has been drinking.
I anticipate his response: ‘No.’
Totally agree because we are Empaths .We see the world totally different from these folks it just doesn’t work out for us. We need to find our own kind to enjoy the world. Then it will make it a better place 100%percent. I am hoping that part.anyways. However we need them to be in politics CEO, surgeons and of course we need HG.
Thank you for sharing. I think there’s some good common sense advice included there, which I’ll bear in mind.
“Do not look upset, frightened or worried.”
Can you offer any suggestions on how this can be successfully done if one is experiencing anything beyond mild fear/anxiety? I can all too easily find this impossible to achieve if this is the case. And if I’ve got valid reason to suspect that I’m involved with somebody seriously nasty mentally unstable/dangerous (whether somebody with NPD or otherwise) then that fast triggers me into feeling severe fear/anxiety when around them/in anticipation of having to be around them when for some reason I can’t easily avoid it. I’ve tried things like CBT self help, meditation and breathing exercises – but have so far found they only go so far towards helping.
Thanks for reading.
Emma
I’m not as good on Fridays and Saturdays. Evenings in particular but I can feel my ET rising already today. Friday and Saturday night if the MMR went out, he would text me the whole way through the evening. Show me photos of the bar etc. When he got home we’d chat through the night until 3 or 4 am.
Similar during the week but we would stop chatting around 12 or 1 am due to work.
My question is this.
If I was just the LDE, where was the IPPS? There was no evidence of her throughout the duration of the 4yr interaction. Where was he getting his fuel?
There was a disengagement of 4 months early on, another of 8 months 2 years in. I’m assuming that was the arrival of an IPPS. But other quiet spells were far shorter, 8 weeks the longest ST.
So we have one 4 month gap, one 8 month gap and three shorter silent treatments. Im at a loss to work out where he got his fuel or how he could possibly have had an IPPS at the same time as he was interacting with me. I look at other sources. Family lived roughly 30 mins drive away. He didn’t see friends during the week due to the nature of his job. I’m not seeing the fuel supply here.
I shouldn’t be thinking about it but I am thinking about it, so I might as well admit that I am.
Start with The Veiled Primary Source and if you need further clarification, organise a consultation because I will need more information about the nature of your engagement to then analyse and explain.
Ok I will. Thank you HG.
I might spend my Full Monty on it. I can’t get myself to fit into his matrix properly and it’s playing on my mind.
I was going to look at me for the Full Monty though as I’m really interested in overlaying the EDC and TDC and looking more at that. I’m not sure what I want to know there exactly. I just feel that there is more to draw out when both consults are placed together and in context.
Jolly good.
You’d be surprised how well these fuckers hide it. Mine hasn’t had an IPPS in nearly a decade. He enjoys juggling 2 / 3 women at a time. And I don’t mean to sound arrogant when I say … I’m either the only one, or of a very small percentage of those that figured all this out. In my generation though , women are also far more accepting of the “casual” label. And not all the girls he sees are empaths, he’s got a variety of normals and narcs in the mix which makes them far less sensitive to the situation.
But he would go as far as having separate boxes of condoms for each relationship.
They.are.slime bags.
007–Yuck.
Funny thing is, well a few things. The Somatic Lesser I sometimes monitor–not him per se, but his exes. His ex wife, another Ex who is the mother of his kid out of wedlock and another ex he juggled when trying to move on me–all three of them at one point dyed their hair bright, crimson red. Not natural red, but fire engine red. Like the color of HG’s shorts.
(Yes I know they are technically tangerine.)
He should make a collage of all the photos. LOL
I only made the connection when the mother of his kid just did it. It will be interesting if his current wife does it once he dumps her.
I know a very sick codependent who has had a lifetime of abuse from her horrible family, only attracts narcs/sociopath Lessers, and now she has a channel on Porn Hub.
How I know this is someone sent me the link. Did not watch it but saw the thumbnail of her getting pounded in a pile of trash.
When I knew her, all she ever wanted was validation and compliments so now I guess she wants to be complimented on how well she sucks dick.
I guess you gotta start somewhere.
“But he would go as far as having separate boxes of condoms for each relationship.”
I guess at least he bothered to use something. I can well imagine some don’t care about getting multiple women pregnant or passing on STD’s to others! Sorry to hear about all that.
Yes. He was a germophobe. In fact, he avoided all “normal” sex acts as much as he could. He hated vaginal sex but would partake every now and again. While it was odd, my largest sex organ is my brain.. and he could activate it, so it wasn’t an issue for me.
In fact. I kind of miss it. I know he’s one of the most careful guys around because he would never want to get a girl pregnant. And he was terrified of getting an STI. He suffered from extreme parinoa. But in this case it’s also a benefit to his victims.
Well if they suck in bed they’re limited to mind fuck as method. Second stringers. An embarrassment to the brethren haha. I wonder if at the Midrange conventions the Elites laugh and point at the Cerebrals while quickly poking one extended finger through a hole formed by the fingers on their other hand.
Hahaha ! I needed to hear that, thanks NA.
While all we ever did was “have sex”. I do think he may have been more cereable.
Sad thing is, he completely blew the normal I was with out of
The water 😂😂 so sadly my sexual experiences so far have been pretty weak 😂😂
Hahaha, love that NA
Second stringer? All my g-strings have been dreadfully out of tune.
Time to get some air on them
Take your mask off!
Empath 007, thank you for answering x
You made me laugh there. It sounded so not you! Rawrr! You go girl.
Yes, they do hide it. He’s getting his fuel from somewhere. I read ‘ The Veiled Primary Source’ as HG suggested. It made me think.
I think he has to draw from family. He was cagey about his parents. It’s possible there is fuel to be drawn there.
Actually though, I think the answer is more obvious if I step back. There’s simply another me. Another LDE or secondary source. He will draw from her in the same way as he drew from me. Constantly. He’ll stay true to type, he’ll stay online. There could be three of me now for all I know. This plus family / friends will keep him topped up in between IPPS. I don’t believe his real life relationships last very long at all.
I think it’s possible that having several high fuel producing online secondary sources might be his preferred method. I think he is more or less content living alone. He won’t understand why his relationships fail so opts for constant communication via online sources. He believes he is a truly good person who, “always puts others first.” He might well be a tortured soul who believes his own hype.
I think I was a fuel supertanker. In honesty, I know I was. Best of luck to him finding my replacement.
Thank you for your suggestion HG, I think I know enough.
Hahaha 😂 I enjoy my f bombs when warranted. And talking about narcs… it’s warrented lol. I’m also feisty as hell. I make a great supply source. Cinematic worthy moments for me, haha.
Online, that’s interesting, makes sense given how easy it is these days.
Oh, he’s a “good guy”… ya mine was one of those too, displayed almost nerdy in nature. With a delicious secret love life. Since no one knows about it…
No one judges him. He’s so good women you see. He separates the condoms. Lol.
And yours only jacks off over the Internet 😂 our darling princes’ 😂 haha. However did we let them go lol.
He didn’t know when he was well off Empath 007. His loss x
TS, I hope you do not mind me weighing in with an opinion. I know you are curious about your exN’s fuel lines. My guess would be, if there were no visible means, that the sources were on the job or online. But, let’s say you find out about how it all worked, would that not simply lead to more questions? This is why no contact involves not just being absent of the narcissist, but also about removing triggers of memory and not thinking about the narcissist. If you have had the NDC on this guy and he is a narcissist, that is really all you need to know. Cut off the addiction. No amount of information, no matter how accurate and detailed, will make him anything different. Accept the fact and begin to take all your focus on a more lovely and deserving topic, yourself!
The EDC and TDC are a wonderful combination (along with the WED) and it’s highly likely you’ll want a consult afterwards. I did. The knowledge you will gain is very valuable. These detectors provide great insight and that new insight willl lead to many epiphanies. Your growth in knowledge and insight will positively effect every interaction you will have going forward! It is invaluable. So if I were to have a vote, I would choose you over the narcissist every time.
If after the EDC, TDC, and WED and a consult with HG, you find you still have a need to know about some detail in the past regarding your exN, then by all means consult with HG until you find your peace. Even then, you will be glad you chose you first.
Hello FYC x
Of course you can wade in, definitely, any time, any comment!
I think you are right and I came to the same conclusion myself this afternoon while tasking. (been getting caught up today to stay busy). It’s my weaker time, Friday, ET goes up, not as bad as it has been, but still not as good as I usually feel. I start to think again and question. Partly academic, partly because of that irritating drive to know it all.
You’re right though, the end result stays the same. He’s a narcissist, I’m out of it.
So I’m not spending my full Monty on him. I’m going to spend it on me. HG is going to be his charismatic self and we’ll step forward rather than look back. It’ll be another ‘aha’ moment, enlightening and fun. Another way to seize the power.
Thank you for the reminder FYC and taking the time to answer. I appreciate it, always do. X
TS, I am very happy to learn you changed your mind. Well done. Maybe your Fridays become “date night” with HG, where you relax in your favorite place and indulge in your favorite beverage and listen to HG’s alluring voice delivering his unparalleled wisdom, logic, insight and humor? That old what’s his name will be long forgotten.
If Fri and Sat are hard, check into the Knowing HG forum and read about the only narcissist worth knowing and spin some theories with the gang. Time flies and your brain is engaged with a different focus.
Good call and I am obliged.
Ha ha FYC,
Covert date night. The kind where only one of you knows they’re on a date. Hmmm, maybe I can flex my imagination!
NA, great point ha ha.
I have been researching behind the scenes, no breakthroughs yet though. I’ll take another run at it later. I do find that mystery helpful in stopping my mind wandering back to where it shouldn’t.
Conditioning takes a while to unpick. I’m getting there though.
Thank you for the suggestion.
Hi Truthseeker, I hope you don’t mind me interjecting. Maybe there wasn’t a primary source but their may have been multiple IPSS’s. I was a secondary source and we met at work. No one knew about me. Not his primary source, not his family, not his friends, not even co-workers. There was never any communication between us after hours or on weekends. We didn’t take lunches together so their was never any suspicion from our co-workers either. We would meet early in the morning and then went on with our day. We did talk on the phone or via text but that was during the day while we were at work. We were intimate for a year and half and he pursued me for 2 years prior to that. No one was the wiser. They are extremely adept in hiding things. I’ve learned that with a narc, anything is possible and just because you don’t see it, doesn’t mean its not there.
Hey Leigh 🙂
Of course, go for it, I’m always open to ideas! I think you are right, I concluded the same or similar. When he wasn’t chatting with me there was another version of me, likely online, maybe several. It always confused me how much time he was sinking into someone he didn’t care about. All those hours for all those months. I used to say to my friends, ‘ Who does that?’ Now I know, a narcissist does that.
Exactly! Who spends so much time with someone they don’t care about? They don’t care about us. They care about the fuel we give them. I was a super tanker for sure, too. I would explode all the time. Must have made him feel powerful. What Bastards!
Ha, totally understandable Leigh.
I never exploded in anger but he played my truthseeker trait to perfection. Had me obsessing about what he meant with his half answers, song links and silences. I did exactly what HG describes in his book ‘Manipulation’. I would assume he had gone silent due to a comment I had made, something I had or hadn’t said or done. I would replay and review then defend all the possibilities. Worse, I laid all these thoughts out because I trusted him. There were two of him. My friend and the ‘someone else’. I talked through the silences, Self analysed, listed all my perceived flaws but said dishonesty was not amongst them. I really was a true gift in that respect. Should wrap myself up and tie myself with a bow. I hate that I was so predictable.
However, the upside. I never lost my temper, Never name called or attacked. I’m sure he was after the blast of negative fuel but never managed to break me in that respect. He even asked, ‘Are you angry?’. Projected with ‘liar’. Told me ‘you overthink’. I fought and I fought and never gave up. I was a bottomless pit of energy in trying to fix and get to the truth of it all, but he never managed to access the negative emotion from me. That negative emotion is there, I know it is, I’m no angel, he just didn’t get to it.
Good. Amateur!
Truthseeker, i did all the same things you did, plus got angry. I wasn’t a name caller, I would just tell him the truth about what he had done and did it very angrily and loud and with steam coming out of my ears. Towards the end, when I was getting tired of the machinations and manipulations, I would stop reaching in anger and he too would ask me if I was angry with him. Towards the end, I didn’t have it in me anymore. I didn’t know it then but now I know it was just to provoke me and get fuel.
Whenever mine went silent and then came back, he would tell me he thought I needed space. That used to send me to the moon. He walked away but I needed space! Really???
Leigh,
Ha! Steam huh? 😂
I wouldn’t wish the confusion on anyone, but it is nice to know that there are others just like us who fought in the same way. At the time, you know it’s not right, not how things should be. Afterwards you can’t believe you kept it up for as long as you did. Later still, the more we understand, the more I think we make peace with it.
At least we can laugh together. That’s important. X
Truthseeker, its so true that the more you understand the more you come to peace with it. You realize it was all just gaslighting and that you’re actually not crazy! That’s why I’m so thankful for this blog, Mr.. Tudor and all of you. 😀
HG, I stumbled upon a YT interview with an individual who has been diagnosed with anti-social/sociopath. He had a different way of expressing himself, but a lot of similarities in what you say. Most notably, when he finds people (be it romantic or otherwise) he does so because of traits they have, which he wants himself.
Also, he views relationships in a logical fashion–kept saying logic. reason, etc. over emotion so to him, when he cuts someone out, he is doing it b/c logically there is no benefit for him anymore.
He said he did the video to help others like him–so your kind. Mentioned having to wear a facade and he can’t recall ever feeling happy. When asked if he had any empathy he described a cognitive empathy without using that term, but no emotional empathy.
Bibi,
That sounds interesting, I’d like to watch that. What was it called please?
Hahhaa TS liking your style! I imagine upper lessers type A (I think A if not it’s B) would still hit in a pantomime horse ahaha
Not if it’s eyes are googly.
And we walk round in circles.
I’m dreading returning to work , not just due to the COVID crisis but my work ( dept) has at least two narcs .
They are both bullies , both entitled, one a sneaky piece of work that has the boss wrapped around their finger.I was smeared in work also which set up another incident.
I’ve simply shut down now .I used to be eager and innovative but that has been crushed out of me .
Every success I had was followed by hell in work
Sometimes I wish I was HG or have a scenario where I could watch him deal with these .
Kiki
Kiki,
Use How to Handle the Narcissist at Work and consult with me to address further specifics. It is clearly affecting you and you do not have to be subjected to that any further.
Yes HG , definitely need this one it’s a hard situation due to work .
Will do very very soon .
Kiki
“Sometimes I wish I was HG or have a scenario where I could watch him deal with these.”
If you don’t have the Valentine’s Day story, look into it (if it’s still available out of season). I got intense vicarious joy out of the way HG handled one of those smug little mid-range “see how adored I am” types.
Good call.
VI
I agree. This was the first story I read where I saw HG being him true self. He is nice and respectable on the blog and on consults but I would not ever want to get on his devaluation side.
Sensible.
HG, I like when you retaliate against other narcissists, notably Mid Rangers.
Bibi:
Don’t we all. I know he gets better fuel from his IPPSs, but I always feel bad for them. An account of HG taking down a self-righteous mid-ranger (is that redundant?) has no such qualms associated with it. Talk about a guilt-free pleasure! I would LOVE to hear about more saccharine slimebags like Gillian getting what they so richly deserve.
Kim e, or his bad side he does sound dangerous. Lets just stick to the blog instead. Although he would me interesting to meet him in person.
Eternity,
Not sure what my reaction would be meeting HG in person. Since I know his secret I am not sure I could enjoy myslef and relax as I would always be on the watch for his manipulations.
But WTH….I could handle it for a couple margaritas.
Kim e, I would run and never look back. Even if as a NISS we’re supposed to experience an elongated golden period, I’d still run like fuck.
As my husband’s grandmother used to say, ‘The one who walks away lives to see another day’.
AS2016. To quote HG
sensible😎😎
Alexis,
We could go in disguise.
Pantomime horse.
We’d have to swap round halfway through. (in answer to your question)
No one hits on the pantomime horse.
Haha Kim e, I reckon you could pass yourself off as HG. Love it. I’ll be coming to you for advice next.
I read fuel….And I followed all advice until I made a stupid mistake which could have cost me dearly. I have no social media. I changed my number. I have not put myself where I know he will be. Because my narc had no means of contact he turned up at my home. Not wanting my daughter or neighbours to witness a scene I agreed to sit in the car with him….This then led to me being driven away in the car ( my car door open) sped away from my home. Brakes applied ( An absolute carbon copy of what HG has written about the use of the car) me hitting the dash then dragged out in front of my friends home who lives around the corner and assaulted . It appeared he wanted an audience. Shame she wasn’t home to give him one. I did my best to provide zero fuel during. I didn’t cry, I tried not to look frightened and I didn’t speak. I was left in the street with demands of him expecting me to attend his home and make things right with him as he drove off.
I never envisioned this. Never. He is not a lesser. Far from it. This is the first time in five years I have experienced true fear. And I mean true fear.
HG was right. I made an error by answering the door. I made an error by agreeing to sit in his car. This was to avoid a scene. Well the scene I ended up with was far worse than him making a scene outside my home.
This was last week. So all I am going to say is learn from my mistake. Listen to the advice given. I thought I knew my narc inside out enough that he would never do that, let alone in public.
I’m used to other forms of abuse……The booking of cruises for them to be cancelled. The future fakes. The broken promises. Forms of control in other ways which take more time and effort. But not control and fuel gaining through violence .
Don’t be a Dolly ladies. And don’t make the fatal mistake of thinking because your narc isn’t a lesser that this kind of thing won’t happen.
Please stop blaming yourself for the “errors” you made. It’s like you get beat up twice in that scenario. Sounds to me like you did what most humans would do. Not only that but how could you ever anticipate that horrific display considering he was never violent with you in a 5 year period !
Please don’t add to your pain by blaming yourself for your actions. We can only learn from them. Focus on what you will do next time and forgive yourself.
He’s a monster. He should feel shame for HIS actions and yet he doesn’t. But we feel shame for ours… even if there was no bad intent in our actions.
Also, I’m really sorry that happened to you. What happened to you was not OK. You did not deserve that.
Bless your heart empath. Thanks for the kind words. All I can do is hope other people learn from my mistake. I have read HGs work. I thought on this occasion I’d be okay. I thought wrong. It was a split second descison . I’ve never been one for drama and not in public hence why I got in the car.
I just don’t want anyone else to go through the same.
You’re right. They are monsters. I saw the glint of evil that I’ve only ever witnessed properly a few times before. The look where there’s nothing there. No soul, no light. Nothing human. But thank you for your support. Maybe we can help others with our sharing.
Its thrown me. Because everything I thought I knew, even about the narcissism has been blown out of the water. I know HG has stated that all classes or narc could sway towards violence. Of all the things I expected to expect, this wasn’t one of them from him. Not in public anyway.
I have my job to think about. My children. I am fortunate to live in a nice area. I don’t want police involvement. I don’t want other people knowing my business.
What do I do Empath? For once I’m out of my depth …..
I’m happy you shared this too. This could potentially save another empath from thinking “he’s never hit me before”.
Dolly this was a traumatic experience. I hope you have people in your real life that can support you… I know you don’t want to involve others but my fear is you willl go through this alone. Personally I think it would be to your benefit to report this incident to the police.No one has to know you did it. But I think someone needs to know.
I empathize with your situation. You have children of course you don’t want to up route them, they have school and friends and an entire life. Doesn’t hurt to keep your eye open for what’s avaiable in your area though. A move may be worth it if it protects you guys.
Please keep us updated.
Dolly
I’m very sorry you experienced that and glad you’re okay. I also appreciate your honesty in the telling of it instead of keeping it to yourself so that it can act as a warning to others. We talk a lot about how a narcissist cannot change, but we can forget that means in a positive way. Things can absolutely get worse and it often does. Most operate on instinct and in the moment depending on a number of factors that we are not privy to and that appears to have occurred in your case. Don’t berate yourself. You could not have seen it coming, but it places new emphasis on having a solid no contact policy. Head up Dolly. You now know what to do to ensure it doesn’t happen again to you and have shared it so that hopefully it will not happen to others. That’s something to be proud of.
Goodness, dollysupreme, I can imagine the fear that you felt ! It resonated with me because last narc blew it once in front of me, although I was lucky he didn’t assault me but he scared the shit out of me, and I hadn’t expected that from the ‘lovely gentleman’ I had met, as he first appeared to be.
We all make mistakes. I was scared of him because of that scene, and still went ahead to his place to ‘talk things out’ around the end. I was so scared that I had told a friend precisely where he lived and told her to send the police if she hadn’t heard from me by a certain time. See what I did? I felt I had reasons to be scared, but still went ahead! You did not expect this.
But you are so right to say that we must always expect the worst with intimate narcs.
Please take care. If feeling and being safe means involving the police, maybe that’s worth it? Or a restraining order?
Thank you both. I wish I could believe that this will be the end of my entanglement with him. But I don’t think he will let me go that easily.
For now I’ve got to admit defeat and accept that I shall have to stay out of sight to be out of mind. Total lockdown for me. I want to provide zero triggers. Gonna have to accept my life will be dull for a while.
Before I’d read fuel and was non the wiser after I found evidence of other girls, and I mean girls not women I wrote all over his pristine white car bonnet with a bright pink blush stick a few choice words. I always wondered why he never went mad about this. Now I know it’s because he enjoyed the fuel my anger and actions bought. I wondered why he stood in the window of his kitchen with a half grin and didn’t come out and stop me……
Fidderless I can totally relate to the feeling of being scared, but still going ahead. It’s like when you watch a horror movie and the girl still walks down the dark alley alone. Everyone is shouting don’t do it……But she does. That girl has been us……Crazy.
Some of my friends don’t realise what a narc is. And I’m not going to preach. But their soloution is to go out and date. There thoughts are he will leave you alone then. Why would I do that? Ive got a one in six chance of making the wrong desicion. And my chances of picking up another narc is pretty high right now due to my own need for some love bombing. It’s been a long time, and I know id be susceptible to it. Just being honest..It’s like a game of Russian roulette just with another type of bullet.
Sorry for ranting on. All me me me. But i can’t tell my parents they are too old. My friends are good, but I don’t want our friendships to be consumed by him.
So I feel like I’ve exposed him (on here) without exposing him if that makes sense. I’m grateful of the support and advice
I’m sure HG has to have some
Advice for this. Get senslessly beat up and that’s it ? Nothing ?
I wish your girlfriend DID see it. Then she wouldn’t be so sheepish around the word narcissits.
Does she have cameras at her home ? If so would it be possible you have footage ?
Were there neighbors that witnessed ?
Indeed I have plenty.
Dolly supreme, sorry to hear what you sent through. That’s horrendous. You are correct to stay low for the time being. It won’t so much be out of sight out of mind for him but it will give you some peace and time and space to just breathe. Speaking from a legal point of view if he is the father of your children, go through the legal for visitation etc. and do as much of your communication via your lawyer. It’s a small expense to pay but also gives you peace of mind and he won’t be able to instigate arguments and cause chaos and hassle for you. Also you should think of speaking to you local police station and letting them know what is going on. In case he ever gets violent or arrives to your house in the middle of the night trying to break in (let’s hope he doesn’t on both counts), but at least the local police would have notification of situation and know what to expect. The police can also advise you of things to do etc. Stay strong and be safe and any interaction that you have in future with him make sure it is in a crowded area, cafe, restaurant etc. Never allow him into your house and keep any communication to a minimum and give no reaction. Much love.
Thank you all. He’s thankfully not the father of my children. The father of my children is a lovely man. We were together for 20 years and he isnt a narcissist.
The police are aware of the situation however I haven’t made a formal complaint. They can press charges of their own accord if they see fit and have told me they would. So I won’t go down that route.
It’s not to protect him. It’s because I don’t want to go through the process. I dont want to go to court. To have my life in the local paper who thrive on small town gossip fills me with dread. Nobody wants their life laying bare.
He could charm a snake and he’s an accomplished compulsive but believable liar. As cunning as a fox, like the majority of you have experienced.
I shall review the material I have, I have a number of HGs books and bulletins.
I have a feeling his recreational use of a certain Columbian marching powder might have gotten to be more than recreational. This will be a disaster to him and his image if this is the case. It would also explain him turning up here and his actions. All this would normally be very beneath him. Even though he’s lower than a snakes belly…..
He attacked me outside the gates of the private school that’s around the corner. I’m pretty sure they would have some form of CCTV. But I’d be too ashamed to ask. I think I will have to invest in some CCTV for myself.
Thank you all for the kind support though. It means a lot. I just hope other people can take something away from this. And that for me is the shock that it’s not only lessers that can show extreme and public acts of violence.
“But I’d be too ashamed to ask…”
That breaks my heart. I understand sometimes it’s best to move forward. But your shame about the situation concerns me. You get it’s not your fault right ? You didn’t deserve what happened. And no “error” you made in judgment justified his grossly over exaggerated responses to the situation.
There no right or wrong solution here. Ultimately you’ve got to make the decision that you’re at peace with and that’s best for you. It sounds like you know what’s that going to be.
But please don’t feel shame. Nothing shameful happened.
I came here to write about a dream I had … but
Then became transfixed on the article haha. Because, dam…. this is ON POINT as per usual ! I’ve gotten waaaayyy better at emails at work ! This has improved immensely. And now it’s my favourite form of communication. Less fuel, sort of passive aggressive. All good things.
Ok ! My dream. I’m not really a dream analyzer…
I kinda think it’s lame and meaningless like star signs lol. Never understood why people care about those things like it reveals some kind of all Powerful secrets lol.
Anyhow. My narc has sucked me back in,
But this time, I met with another one of his victims, she was upset but we became friends… we embraced in a hug (me and the other girl) and I decided not to see the narc again…. waking up to realize the other girl, was me !
It was kinda heavy 😂 I felt like I needed a psychiatrist chair and Freud there to analyze it with me. Haha. First time in my life a dream seemed so symbolic. Although I have had other dreams that did reveal future.
The UMR at my job must think I have the personality of a corpse. I am not impolite or rude but very bland and no emotion around him. I hate that I have to be like that, but I don’t like being around him, even if he is being ‘pleasant’. It’s not like me to be so reserved all the time and it feels weird, but I am not going to engage in anything non work related.
Bibi:
I need to work on that, at least until I’ve figured out who the narcs are. Even being too enthusiastic on the job can draw unwelcome attention from narcs. They’re less likely to torture a clock-watching burnout.
V–
When you’re around them you just have to be flatline and not too argumentative or attention-seeking. Unfortunately, that means that they will think you are boring, or slow to the punch, etc. He is so arrogant that when people don’t laugh at his jokes, he assumes they didn’t get it. He never questions if maybe it wasn’t funny. Know your audience, dude.
He was very nice to me in the beginning and complimented me, etc. but then I started to notice that he would assume I didn’t understand things. ‘Do you not know when that is blah blah? Do you don’t understand how we implemented blah blah?’ and he would say it under the guise of trying to be helpful, like I was a moron.
Another thing he does that a coworker pointed out–he will say things like, ‘Oh yeah, man, I ‘ll be sure to help out with that, just let me know when.’
Then, when you tell him when, he is nowhere to be found, so the individual ends up saying, ‘fuck it, I’ll do it myself.’ Then, this gives him the option later were you to complain to a mgr that he never bothered to help, UMR will say, ‘I offered to help…’
This is useful information, as is the information contained in all articles HG graciously provides. I purchased Fuel which I am in the process of reading. The way I see it the more information I have about narcissism the better so I can understand.
Correct
December
I’m glad you are reading Fuel because understanding that is imperative to understanding THEIR behaviours. Another great book is Sitting Target if you want to know more about how and why they choose US.
Thank you. I have been looking at different books to purchase and Sitting Target is another one I will be interested in reading.
Sitting Target upset me way more than SatN. There’s an example in a cafe where the narc comments on the book the woman is reading. In the days before Covid, I’d have thought that was a pretty good way of opening a conversation with someone you’d like to know. If there ever is a post-Covid world, how will I weed out narcs from guys who just think I’m kinda cute?
By applying my work.
I’m getting a hell of a lot better at looking at celebrities or people in the news and thinking, “Yep, that’s one,” but it’s still difficult when I’m interacting with people.
I wish I could just get them in front of a mirror and look for the missing reflection.
That is because when you start interacting, you ET rises and obscures, however, with continued tutelage at the University of Tudor, you will reduce your ET and become far more skilled at spotting them and of course, you may, as many people do, put them through scrutiny from me, in consultation.
I hear you. I am not even of thinking about dating right now. I need more time to heal as it has only been 4.5 months. I also need to spend time learning about narcissism. So many red flags were ignored in the past. I am not even sure if dating apps would even be wise to use for a while given that many narcs use dating apps to troll for victims.
NA, this is sort of a Random question but wasn’t sure where to post it, and as always there’s no need to answer (or perhaps you’ve answered before and could direct me to it) :
Did you ever forgive your step father ? If so, how do you think you were able to achieve it?
My apologies if that’s too personal. While that journey looks different for everyone… it may be helpful for some to know that achieving it is possible.
Hi Empath007
No. I understand his behaviours better now but I don’t forgive him. I don’t subscribe to the concept of forgiveness as effecting personal freedom in general. I don’t think it’s required.
Who am I to forgive anyway? That seems a bit superior.
That’s awesome NA ! I’ve written on here before how I don’t subscribe to forgiveness either. That I think it’s just another way of re victimizing victims… because not only did we have to endure abuse… but now we better also be ready to forgive.
After my break up. I read about forgivness, I watched old Oprah interviews… and, this is one place me and my idol Opra disagree. She defines it as letting go so that one can move on. To me that’s not forgivness, that’s indifference.
I spoke about how I read the Elie Weisel quote “The opposite of love is not hate, it’s indifference” and suddenly it clicked. I never have to forgive.
That was long. But your answer insipires me. Because I’m actually happy to hear another empath chose not to forogive …
But simply to move forward.
I think many assume lack of forgiveness is a precursor to certain feelings and behaviors that include resentment, hatred, retribution and vengeance. While this can be the case, it is not necessarily so.
The definition of forgiveness has changed over time. Several references state that the root of “forgive” is the Latin word “perdonare,” meaning to give completely, without reservation. This would be dangerous to practice with a narcissist.
Perdonare was later adopted into the Germanic ancestor of English resulting in “forgiefan,” used in Old English meaning to give up, allow. Also not a wise practice with regard to a narcissist.
In modern English, “forgive” has also taken on the meanings of pardoning an offense or a debt. The implication is that the offending action is forgotten and/or purged and life can return to a harmonious state. We all know this never happens within a narcissistic relationship, familial or otherwise.
I have adopted a new definition of forgiveness, and that is to understand and release. I understand why narcissists behave as they do. I forgive their need to employ a narcissistic defense because it was necessary for their survival. I know they know no other way. They do as they see necessary to suit their needs and desires. (We all do, really, but we do so very, very differently.) Thanks to HG, I have gained a great depth of understanding and this set me free. Free enough to let go. To release and accept reality: There will be no change on their part. So I let go and pursued Zero Impact. I am free and I am F.R.E.E. and I am happy and at peace. HG’s wisdom paved the way.
What this new definition of forgiveness does not do, is cause me to forget all that has happened and all I have learned. I will never again give completely without reservation and allow further abuse. That would be folly. A wiser choice is to recognize, understand and GOSO and achieve Zero Impact. Doing this delivers true peace and harmony.
I hope this perspective is helpful for others who may feel they are ethically or morally called upon to forgive acts of abuse. They are not. Forgive the necessity of the defense (GDP+LOCE), not the abusive behavior that results.
NA knows all of this and more. She sees the situation exactly as it is. It is also remarkable and commendable that she is at once deeply empathetic and a strong warrior for all empaths. She sits atop her hierarchy of recovery and enjoys the clear and unobstructed view.
I enjoyed your comment FYC ! As usual it was full of good information and advice ❤️
Thank you E007, you are very kind.😘
Dear Empath007, NarcAngel and FYC,
Very interesting reading ladies
‘Forgiveness’ for me, is a highly overrated word
The damage can never be undone, the words can never be taken back, the actions and the pain never forgotten
It immediately changes your perception of that person and how you view them thru new lenses
I have evolved to a new threshold of emotions
My self worth has changed and so has my tolerance
What is does do, is give ME a ‘choice’ on how I handle it
Forgiving, isn’t one of them
Luv Bubbles xx 😘
This is useful information.I purchased Fuel and am in the process of reading it, in addition to the articles the HG graciously provides.
Just what I needed to read. Thanks HG.